Self Reinforcing Healthcare Shortage

[crb]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081013/ap_on_re_us/brain_scan_delayed



NEW YORK - A jury has awarded nearly $11 million to a woman who became partially paralyzed after waiting two hours for a hospital brain scan.

Lack of resources forcing wait, forcing worse patient care, spawning lawsuit, resulting in big payment, resulting in larger lack of resources, forcing longer waits, forcing even worse patient care... etc

I wasn't aware this type of thing was actionable. I mean, misreading a brain scan, okay, leaving your watch inside an abdominal cavity, sure. Having a shortage of facilities? How is that the hospital's or any doctor's fault?

That woman should be happy enough she wasn't injured in a rural area. Seriously, it sucks what happened to her, but to blame a hospital for not having the resources to treat all conditions instantly is pretty out there. At many rural hospitals the best imaging device they have is a good old fashioned X-ray. Is that their fault?

You wanna lower healthcare costs, address this. Of course, Obama never will, he's in the pocket of unions and personal injury lawyers (yay special interests).

[Ignot]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081013/ap_on_re_us/brain_scan_delayed



Lack of resources forcing wait, forcing worse patient care, spawning lawsuit, resulting in big payment, resulting in larger lack of resources, forcing longer waits, forcing even worse patient care... etc

I wasn't aware this type of thing was actionable. I mean, misreading a brain scan, okay, leaving your watch inside an abdominal cavity, sure. Having a shortage of facilities? How is that the hospital's or any doctor's fault?

That woman should be happy enough she wasn't injured in a rural area. Seriously, it sucks what happened to her, but to blame a hospital for not having the resources to treat all conditions instantly is pretty out there. At many rural hospitals the best imaging device they have is a good old fashioned X-ray. Is that their fault?

You wanna lower healthcare costs, address this. Of course, Obama never will, he's in the pocket of unions and personal injury lawyers (yay special interests).

LOL at attacking Obama with this. :jerkit:

[crb]

For all his talk of lowering healthcare costs, has Obama even once mentioned malpractice reform?

[ElanthianSiren]

[url]
I wasn't aware this type of thing was actionable. I mean, misreading a brain scan, okay, leaving your watch inside an abdominal cavity, sure. Having a shortage of facilities? How is that the hospital's or any doctor's fault?


It's actionable because in an emergency situation the hospital has the obligation to transfer the patient to a hospital that can handle what he/she needs. The question becomes whether or not the hospital thought this was emergency. I sort of think something as serious as a brain scan might be something they should prioritize.

I should add that that doesn't mean I advocate frivolous lawsuits. I'm actually a big believer in malpractice reform. That means I feel the hospital should have the responsibility of doing their job or face a fair punishment.

[ElanthianSiren]

I should add that by that circular logic, we can blame the AMA for bottlenecking doctor supply so much that employing doctors gobbles up so much equipment resource.

The whole thing is a big CF.

[crb]

It's actionable because in an emergency situation the hospital has the obligation to transfer the patient to a hospital that can handle what he/she needs. The question becomes whether or not the hospital thought this was emergency. I sort of think something as serious as a brain scan might be something they should prioritize.

I should add that that doesn't mean I advocate frivolous lawsuits. I'm actually a big believer in malpractice reform. That means I feel the hospital should have the responsibility of doing their job or face a fair punishment.
And what if there is no hospital that can provide the service, or no resources for the transfer? Transfering an unstable patient isn't exactly easy. In a triage situation you have limited ambulances and medical personnel and what is more important, having them go get someone who is having a heart attack at home and bringing them to the hospital, or having them move an unstable headwound patient who is already at a hospital?

Malpractice lawsuits should be for cases of gross negligence when wrong decisions or accidents are made. Punishing a hospital for not having the resources to do a timely diagnostic test that may or may not have provided a window of opportunity to prevent what happened is not gross negligence, it is not a wrong decision, it is not an accident. It is life, and it sucks, but there you go.

Consider this. Suppose a schoolbus of nuns goes off a cliff on their way to a campground out in the woods. They're taken slowly to a rural hospital where 1 doctor is on duty by the area's only 2 ambulances. Even when calling in a guy who is on call, the two doctors cannot treat so many critically wounded nuns, and the 2 ambulances cannot transfer them all in as fast as they would like. Some die, many have permanent injuries. How many lawsuits are warranted?

Maybe if it was a charter bus you could sue the bus company for having a shitty driver, maybe they'd sue the road commission if it was a road problem that caused it, but where in the medical treatment was negligence?

[crb]

I should add that by that circular logic, we can blame the AMA for bottlenecking doctor supply so much that employing doctors gobbles up so much equipment resource.

The whole thing is a big CF.
Explain. Are you talking about a refusal to lower licensing standards. that seems to be a good thing, no? I did a Google and couldn't find anything.

[Gan]

With all the economic issues we're having right now, all the DC pundits are saying that the one thing on the Obama ticket that will be left off the table will be his healthcare plan. Maybe he can campaign with that in 12, providing the economy has rebounded by then.

[thefarmer]

You wanna lower healthcare costs, address this. Of course, Obama never will, he's in the pocket of unions and personal injury lawyers (yay special interests).


I don't believe I've heard McCain mention medical malpractice once.

[crb]

I don't believe I've heard McCain mention medical malpractice once.
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/12/john-mccain-so-gets-it.html
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm

[Ignot]

I don't believe I've heard McCain mention medical malpractice once.

CRB, you were just waiting for someone to say this weren't you? Lets not also forget to blame the Jews for all this.

[crb]

CRB, you were just waiting for someone to say this weren't you? Lets not also forget to blame the Jews for all this.
http://www.wilddamntexan.com/kids/demotivators/Strawman.jpg

Fiscal conservative liberterians are antisemites now?

[ElanthianSiren]

And what if there is no hospital that can provide the service, or no resources for the transfer? Transfering an unstable patient isn't exactly easy. In a triage situation you have limited ambulances and medical personnel and what is more important, having them go get someone who is having a heart attack at home and bringing them to the hospital, or having them move an unstable headwound patient who is already at a hospital?

Malpractice lawsuits should be for cases of gross negligence when wrong decisions or accidents are made. Punishing a hospital for not having the resources to do a timely diagnostic test that may or may not have provided a window of opportunity to prevent what happened is not gross negligence, it is not a wrong decision, it is not an accident. It is life, and it sucks, but there you go.

Consider this. Suppose a schoolbus of nuns goes off a cliff on their way to a campground out in the woods. They're taken slowly to a rural hospital where 1 doctor is on duty by the area's only 2 ambulances. Even when calling in a guy who is on call, the two doctors cannot treat so many critically wounded nuns, and the 2 ambulances cannot transfer them all in as fast as they would like. Some die, many have permanent injuries. How many lawsuits are warranted?

Maybe if it was a charter bus you could sue the bus company for having a shitty driver, maybe they'd sue the road commission if it was a road problem that caused it, but where in the medical treatment was negligence?

Should have could have would have didn't. They're still bound by the laws governing hospitals. If they break those rules/laws, they are liable.

I don't undertake arguing extreme and loosely related situations, not even with Latrin, who I always was fond of. Burn the nuns. They're reproductively useless anyway and mean bitches with rulers too.

[thefarmer]

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2007/12/john-mccain-so-gets-it.html
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm

Fair enough.


McCain's site says he's against lawsuits when doctors "follow clinical guidelines and adhere to safety protocols." Can you prove that the staff followed all of the necessary guidelines? Or did you just assume that it was a shortage of facilities?

[TheRoseLady]

For all his talk of lowering healthcare costs, has Obama even once mentioned malpractice reform?

So are you for government regulation or are you against it?

Or do you swing both ways when it's convenient to make a laughable half-hearted partisan snipe?

[BigWorm]

http://www.wilddamntexan.com/kids/demotivators/Strawman.jpg

Fiscal conservative liberterians are antisemites now?

Way to prove you have no idea what a strawman attack is, despite constantly using them in discussion.

[Warriorbird]

CRB totally has no industry related biases at all. He's impartial!