1 VOTER, 72 REGISTRATIONS 'ACORN PAID ME IN CASH & CIGS'

[Gan]

CLEVELAND - A man at the center of a voter-registration scandal told The Post yesterday he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times, in apparent violation of Ohio laws.

"Sometimes, they come up and bribe me with a cigarette, or they'll give me a dollar to sign up," said Freddie Johnson, 19, who filled out 72 separate voter-registration cards over an 18-month period at the behest of the left-leaning Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.

"The ACORN people are everywhere, looking to sign people up. I tell them I am already registered. The girl said, 'You are?' I say, 'Yup,' and then they say, 'Can you just sign up again?' " he said.

Johnson used the same information on all of his registration cards, and officials say they usually catch and toss out duplicate registrations. But the practice sparks fear that some multiple registrants could provide different information and vote more than once by absentee ballot.

ACORN is under investigation in Ohio and at least eight other states - including Missouri, where the FBI said it's planning to look into potential voter fraud - for over-the-top efforts to get as many names as possible on the voter rolls regardless of whether a person is registered or eligible.
It's even under investigation in Bridgeport, Conn., for allegedly registering a 7-year-old girl to vote, according to the State Elections Enforcement Commission.

Meanwhile, a federal judge yesterday ordered Ohio's Secretary of State to verify the identity of newly registered voters by matching them with other government documents. The order was in response to a Republican lawsuit unrelated to the ACORN probe in Cuyahoga County, in which at least three people, including Johnson, have been subpoenaed.

Bribing citizens with gifts, property or anything of value is a fourth-degree felony in Ohio, punishable by up to 18 months in prison. And it's a fifth-degree felony - punishable by 12 months in jail - for a person to pay "compensation on a fee-per-registration" system when signing up someone to vote.

Johnson, who works at a cellphone kiosk in downtown Cleveland, said he was a sitting duck for the signature hunters, but was always happy to help them out in exchange for a smoke or a little scratch. He'd collected 10 to 20 cigarettes and anywhere from $10 to $15, he said.

The Cleveland voting probe, first reported by The Post yesterday, also focused on Lateala Goins, who said she put her name on multiple voter registrations. She guessed ACORN canvassers then put fake addresses on them. "You can tell them you're registered as many times as you want - they do not care," she said.

ACORN spokesman Kris Harsh said the group does not tolerate its workers paying people to sign the voter-registration cards.

ACORN's political wing has endorsed Barack Obama (http://www.nypost.com/news/p/obama_barack/obama_barack.htm) for president, but Ben LaBolt, a spokesman for the Obama campaign in Ohio, said ACORN has no role in its get-out-the-vote drive.

During the primary season, however, the Obama camp paid another group, Citizen Service Inc., $832,598 for various political services, according to Federal Elections Commission filings. That group and ACORN share the same board of directors.

In Wisconsin yesterday, John McCain blasted ACORN.

"No one should be corrupting the most precious right we have, that is the right to vote," he said.

It's a right Johnson will exercise. "Yeah, I've registered enough - I might as well vote."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10102008/news/politics/1_voter__72_registrations_132965.htm

[Parkbandit]

ACORN is just trying to get people to vote.. which is a RIGHT of every American. At least they aren't trying to trick and intimidate people out of voting!

[Methais]

I have a penis.

[Gan]

How is sending in false registration forms in order to meet a quota, so that employee will continue being paid, worse than discouraging actual voters from voting?

You've completely lost any perspective you might have once had.

Who said anything about quota?

Can you source how ACORN works?

Are its people volunteer staff? Paid staff?

*If they are paid, are they paid by the hour? by quantity of names obtained?

That would help your argument immensely.

[Tolwynn]

Because if those multiple registrations get to vote, it totally skews the whole one vote per person thing? You honestly don't see what might be wrong with that?

[Gan]

What is the motivation for turning in their quotas?

Money?

Prestige?

Sex?

Booze?

[CrystalTears]

He somehow thinks that ACORN employees sending in false registrations somehow excuses the right-wing zealots supporting the McCain campaign sending actual voters fake absentee ballots addressed to bullshit addresses, so their vote--their real vote won't be counted, or telling college kids that they face imaginary consequences (like losing coverage on their parent's health insurance) if they register to vote in another state (where their college is) than where there parents live.
It doesn't excuse anyone of anything. I think it's more your hypocritical statements that one is not as bad as the other. It's fucking retarded. They're both inexcusable.

[Gan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Community_Organizations_for_Reform_ Now#ACORN_employees_and_voter_registration_fraud

Look up the details yourself, if you're interested. It's not my job to educate you so that you can develop an informed opinion.



So you dont know.

Check.

[Parkbandit]

Because if those multiple registrations get to vote, it totally skews the whole one vote per person thing? You honestly don't see what might be wrong with that?


When you are a blind partisan hack like It is, you can't be bothered with logic or facts.

[Clove]

So you dont know.

Check.You could fill a Wiki with what It doesn't know.

[Clove]

It could be the Cuervo talking but I think attempting to fraudalently multiply vote of one person is worse than attempting fraudalently stifle a vote from one person.

[Gan]

So what part of my statement about ACORN has been hypocritical? I've said repeatedly that both are blameworthy. However, the intent behind them is relevant.

Are these employees of ACORN motivated by greed/laziness, or motivated by the desire to get Obama elected illegitimately?

The various allegations against ACORN's employees have shown that the former, not the latter, is true.

PB's comparing this to the right's abuses trying to trick people out of voting (through numerous ways), but most recently the sending of fake absentee ballots that go to a bullshit address, so the people THINK they've voted, but haven't.

One has a malicious intent to defraud the election--the other doesn't. I'm sorry that you can't see the difference, but that's on you.

In looking at the accusation (and defending it) you have to consider several pertinent facts or questions regarding ACORN to determine the motive for fraud.

Are ACORN members paid. Specifically are ACORN front line workers who sign up voters compensated in any way?
What is the motive for ACORN members to aggressively and sometimes fraudulently sign up voters?
Compensation?
Recognition?
Are ACORN directors compensated?
What is their motive to require the quotas of signatures obtained for voter registration by the front line workers?
So yes, finding out ACORN's motive for their actions is very pertinent into determining why they are acting the way they are.

Once you can determine the motive then you can follow the trail to determine who is responsible for that motive.

Then you can determine if that motivation is political, financial, or some other weird reason.

[CrystalTears]

So what part of my statement about ACORN has been hypocritical? I've said repeatedly that both are blameworthy. However, the intent behind them is relevant. You're claiming that assigning different amounts of blame to different actions is hypocritical? Moronic.It most certainly is hypocritical.

One has a malicious intent to defraud the election--the other doesn't.
They're both malicious, you freak of nature.

I'm sorry that you can't see the difference, but that's on you.
Ditto.

[thefarmer]

1 guy that doesn't vote < 1 guy that votes 100 times.

[CrystalTears]

Wow. One is not trying to sabotage the election, and one is. If you can't see that, you're worthless as a human being, and god only knows how many teachers/professors you had to blow to get through school with that level of analytical ability.
How ironic. I was going to say the same thing about you.

[Tolwynn]

Since you apparently couldn't be bothered to notice the relevant part of the initial article -


Johnson used the same information on all of his registration cards, and officials say they usually catch and toss out duplicate registrations. But the practice sparks fear that some multiple registrants could provide different information and vote more than once by absentee ballot.

This is where they're enabling voting fraud, no matter how much you wish to ignore it.

[Gan]

Even with all of the attention the additional registered voters are getting in the news. We're still a representative democracy.

[Daniel]

People get overzealous and do dumb, objectionable shit. It's not exactly rocket science here. These people got caught and will be punished according to our laws.

[thefarmer]

Except that simple phony registrations don't mean that employee is going to the polls 100 times with 100 different IDs in order to vote, or registering 100 times and sending 100 absentee votes (not just registrations) in.

Of course they were honest with the prosecutor.. They would have no reason to lie about their intentions

[Parkbandit]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Now I get to pull the "BIGGEST HYPOCRITE OF THE DAY" picture back at you. You're an idiot, PB, and rank up there with Crb as the most blindly partisan, Kool-Aid chugging idiots on the forum.


I could never, ever come close to taking that title away from you. And what makes it even better, is that you really can't admit to it.

[Ogreslayer]

spouts of drivel

If you are suggesting that there is proof of such criminal action in an attempt to sway the election for McCain, I'm sure you'll find most of the people who are supporting McCain will still heartily endorse criminal charges being brought against the culprits.

On the other hand, we have ACORN, which has been rife with fraud for years, still being heartily supported by Dems in Congress, at the state level, and by the Dem. candidate for president.

Voter fraud is a major concern (just ask Dino Rossi), and people should be able to recognize that, regardless of political affiliation. Every fraudulent vote disenfranchises a legitimate voter. You argue that a fraudulent registration doesn't equal a fraudulent vote. Perhaps not, but it certainly opens up the field for a fraudulent vote, especially in states where IDs are not required at the time of voting! You can't argue that it's not an issue when there is no way to verify a) that the registered voter is legitimate, and b) that the voter who shows up at the polls is in fact the person who is on the voter rolls.

Ask yourself this: Of the numerous times common sense regulations (e.g., photo ID requirements and free issuance of IDs) for voting have been brought up, how many times have they been blocked by Republicans? By Democrats?

There is a party that benefits from lax regulations, and their apologists gladly defend ACORN, whether by claiming it's not a big deal or by making a relativist claim that someone else did something worse.

[thefarmer]

Obtuse.. desperate to justify your opinion? I said--look into them. I provided a single example. People were prosecuted successfully. You're basically trying to argue "oh, you can't know their intentions.." Well, then don't assume that you do.

You fail at reading comprehension.



Except that simple phony registrations don't mean that employee is going to the polls 100 times with 100 different IDs in order to vote, or registering 100 times and sending 100 absentee votes (not just registrations) in.


Who's assuming now?

[Daniel]

There is a party that benefits from lax regulations, and their apologists gladly defend ACORN, whether by claiming it's not a big deal or by making a relativist claim that someone else did something worse.

I'm sorry. Both parties are just as guilty when it comes to trying to rig votes. It's not a one party thing.

[Parkbandit]

People get overzealous and do dumb, objectionable shit. It's not exactly rocket science here. These people got caught and will be punished according to our laws.

Yea.. it's their first ever infraction for voter fraud. A simple mistake and not a repetitive pattern seen at every single election they actively participate in.

[Gan]

Because it's not ACORN itself that has done it? They've been individuals acting in their own self-interest. If ACORN was corrupt at its roots, you wouldn't see such wide support for it. They're a highly liberal group--yes--and my personal opinion of them isn't especially high. I'm only defending ACORN of people's assumptions that these employees were trying to sabotage the election--the same kind of behavior that has traditionally been done on the other side.

Voter fraud is definitely a problem. But the phony registrations submitted don't equate to fradulent votes, as you've acknowledged. The State Boards of Election's oversee the process. If it's so susceptible to fraud, they need to be addressed.

The issue here, however, hasn't been weaknesses of the registration systems--it's been the wrongdoing and intent of ACORN, which this thread is full of misconceptions and assumptions about.

So if its widely known that ACORN is a corrupt organization which participates in behaviors relating to screwing up the voting system and its process.

Is it OK that its still supported by politicians?

[Kembal]

WTF?

Stop being outraged about ACORN. This is starting to get ridiculous. Here's what happens:

1. ACORN pays unemployed or low-income people to register voters.
2. Some of these people cheat by filling out fake forms in order to meet their quota.
3. ACORN, by law, cannot destroy the forms once filled out. They must turn them in. (Some of the voter registration forms have been flagged by ACORN themselves as fraudulent when they turn them in, though they don't catch all of them.)
4. The fraudulent forms are then processed by the county clerks and the Secretary of State's office, who, most if not all of the time, catch the fraud and throw them out. (Credit the 2002 HAVA Act with this)
5. Even if a fraudulent form gets through and gets on the rolls, it's extremely unlikely anyone will show up to vote as that fradulent person. Why?
- A multiple registration of the same person will not go through. State databases, due to HAVA, are explicitly designed to flag these out.
- A fake registration altogether would have to pass 3 steps in order to get on the rolls:
- Have a real driver's license or state ID number that matches the name and address, or not include a driver's license/state ID number.
- If no driver's license/state ID number, then they need to have a social security number that matches the name and address, or they don't include a social security number.
- If they don't have a driver's license/state ID number or a social security number, then they MUST show additional ID at the polls in order to vote.

There's a lot of voter registration verification built into HAVA, and all the states except North Dakota are complying with it. (if you're wondering why North Dakota isn't, it's because North Dakota doesn't have voter registration in the first place. You just have to show proof of citizenship when you go to vote.)

Voter registration fraud is a pain in the ass for Secretaries of State and the county clerks, and the people involved in filling out the fradulent registrations ought to be (and are usually) prosecuted. But there's never been any evidence of ACORN as an organization or its directors engaged in a conspiracy to commit voter fraud.

There, however, has been much evidence of ACORN's stupidity in paying people to register voters. I'm pretty certain voter registration fraud ends up eating a substantial amount of their budget.

[Parkbandit]

Coming from someone claiming that anyone else on this planet is a partisan hack? You're very nearly the DEFINITION of a partisan hack.


Do a search on the forums. I'll be happy to bet you that you've accused far more people of that than I have during the same time period.

Come on Twinkles... you are making this far too easy for me tonight.

[Parkbandit]

Because it's not ACORN itself that has done it? They've been individuals acting in their own self-interest. If ACORN was corrupt at its roots, you wouldn't see such wide support for it. They're a highly liberal group--yes--and my personal opinion of them isn't especially high. I'm only defending ACORN of people's assumptions that these employees were trying to sabotage the election--the same kind of behavior that has traditionally been done on the other side.

Oh.. so now a company or entity isn't responsible for the actions of it's employees. I just wish this were the case in the real world.

And the wide spread support from it comes from where... OH YEA, THE DEMOCRATS WHO BENEFIT FROM THEIR SHADY SERVICE!




Voter fraud is definitely a problem. But the phony registrations submitted don't equate to fradulent votes, as you've acknowledged. The State Boards of Election's oversee the process. If it's so susceptible to fraud, they need to be addressed.

The issue here, however, hasn't been weaknesses of the registration systems--it's been the wrongdoing and intent of ACORN, which this thread is full of misconceptions and assumptions about.

I'm going to call the FBI offices right now and tell them to lay off.. since it's only voting registration and no real voting laws were broken. Obviously the FBI is some branch of the Republicans and are only trying to cause trouble!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Anyone defending ACORN is retarded.

[Gan]

OK EVERYONE. WE CAN STOP TALKING ABOUT ACORN NOW. NO FURTHER DISCUSSION OR DEBATE IS NEEDED. KEMBAL HAS SET US ALL STRAIGHT.

NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS, PLEASE MOVE ALONG.


:banghead:

[Daniel]

Yea.. it's their first ever infraction for voter fraud. A simple mistake and not a repetitive pattern seen at every single election they actively participate in.

Where did I even imply that it was any of this?

I was in fact talking about those trying to act as if it's something that needs to be defended. Some people fucked up. That doesn't say anything about Obama, the Democratic Party or the people who support them as a whole. To suggest it does is silly.

[Parkbandit]

And this somehow defends you against being a hypocritical, ultra-partisan-hack how? Distraction attempt, as usual. Delusional.

B-b-b-b-but Parkbandit!!

You never fail to deliver the laughs Twinkles.

http://www.chaoscoding.com/imgs/blog/04-14-08/incredulity.png

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Where did I even imply that it was any of this?

I was in fact talking about those trying to act as if it's something that needs to be defended. Some people fucked up. That doesn't say anything about Obama, the Democratic Party or the people who support them as a whole. To suggest it does is silly.

Except people are judged by the company they keep, or in this case, support. If it wasn't so, we'd not have big to dos around who goes to church where, and questions on if hunting moose by helicopter is ok or not. (or whatever else stupid shit people rabble rouse about)

[thefarmer]

Pretty much. You, CT, PB, TheFarmer, etc, basically needed to be educated. Maybe next time you won't instinctively jump to any side that diminishes culpability of the right, or places blame on the left?

Any side?

I haven't expressed any political side in any post.

You really do fail at reading comprehension.

[Parkbandit]

Whatever you say. The sheer hypocrisy of you--the most partisan hack on the forum--calling anyone else partisan is just laughable. You don't have the perspective required to tell if anyone else is partisan.


(You already used this post already Twinkles... are you running out of comebacks already?)

[Kembal]

OK EVERYONE. WE CAN STOP TALKING ABOUT ACORN NOW. NO FURTHER DISCUSSION OR DEBATE IS NEEDED. KEMBAL HAS SET US ALL STRAIGHT.

NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS, PLEASE MOVE ALONG.


:banghead:

LOL, like that'd ever happen on the PC.

<shrug> Every analysis I've read of this and of the surge in voter registrations in general makes me think that while it is a pain in the ass to deal with fraudulent voter registrations, the systems are in place to make sure this won't actually affect the votes cast in the election.

And now that it's totally legal to ask for a voter's photo ID at the polling place even if its not mandated by state law (I've been asked the last two times myself), are you really expecting that there would be attempts to commit voter fraud on a conspiratoral scale?

[Gan]

Again.. I said that you needed to be educated, which you did. The second comment was for Gan.

Ironic.. reading comprehension issues, Farmer? Not surprising you think other people have them.

Considering that ACORN is funded by political groups, and that the demographic that ACORN typically goes after has a historical prevalence of voting for Democrats if/when they do vote. You can not without a doubt rule out any possibility of political manipulation in this.

I know it sounds George Soros conspiracy crazy, but you can not rule it out without a doubt. Not with your self education on how ACORN works.

What I'm interested to know is who has contributed to ACORN and how much. The money trail never lies.

[Gan]

I'm already on record for calling for a Federal ID card that would satisfy the requirements of a voter ID.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'd gladly sell my vote for some smokes and cash.

[Kembal]

Considering that ACORN is funded by political groups, and that the demographic that ACORN typically goes after has a historical prevalence of voting for Democrats if/when they do vote. You can not without a doubt rule out any possibility of political manipulation in this.

I know it sounds George Soros conspiracy crazy, but you can not rule it out without a doubt. Not with your self education on how ACORN works.

What I'm interested to know is who has contributed to ACORN and how much. The money trail never lies.

And you guys have accused me of needing a tinfoil hat in regards to FISA? Sheesh.

If it weren't for the transparency provided by HAVA for voter registration, I might think there's something to this. What I'd be more concerned about is electronic voting without a paper trail. Someone could manipulate the systems and change the numbers, and most of the systems don't have the audit trail to show the changes. (including the one we have in Harris County, Gan.) And with no paper record of the vote, there's no way to check the numbers.

[Parkbandit]

I'm already on record for calling for a Federal ID card that would satisfy the requirements of a voter ID.


/agree

I'm also on record for stating that for those very few people that cannot afford the cost of this Federal ID Card, that there is a process in place to get them one for free or at a very reduced price.

[Gan]

And you guys have accused me of needing a tinfoil hat in regards to FISA? Sheesh.
Haha. I deserve that.



If it weren't for the transparency provided by HAVA for voter registration, I might think there's something to this. What I'd be more concerned about is electronic voting without a paper trail. Someone could manipulate the systems and change the numbers, and most of the systems don't have the audit trail to show the changes. (including the one we have in Harris County, Gan.) And with no paper record of the vote, there's no way to check the numbers.

Bingo. Being on the precinct committee we have had that very discussion about not having any redundancy to backing up the votes. The only issue to having a paper backup is setting up a printing system that would print in a secure area a record of every vote electronically cast.

There needs to be redundancy in how the votes are tabulated as well as how the voters are registered to ensure accuracy. We dont have that now and its a concern.

[Gelston]

Except that simple phony registrations don't mean that employee is going to the polls 100 times with 100 different IDs in order to vote, or registering 100 times and sending 100 absentee votes (not just registrations) in.

If you're actually interested in the investigations being done into ACORN--educate yourself. Taking an uninformed stance, like Gan's or CT's, is just mindless. See what's actually been/being done and why. It isn't in order to influence the election. It's laziness and greed. Simple as that.

"The defendants, who were paid employees and supervisors of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, concocted the scheme as an easy way to get paid, not as an attempt to influence the outcome of elections, King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003806904_webvotefraud26m.html) said."

That's just one of the investigations. Look them up. Seriously. You're talking out of your ass.

You don't need ID or to go anywhere to vote by absentee ballot.

[Mabus]

4. The fraudulent forms are then processed by the county clerks and the Secretary of State's office, who, most if not all of the time, catch the fraud and throw them out. (Credit the 2002 HAVA Act with this)
5. Even if a fraudulent form gets through and gets on the rolls, it's extremely unlikely anyone will show up to vote as that fradulent person. Why?
- A multiple registration of the same person will not go through. State databases, due to HAVA, are explicitly designed to flag these out.
- A fake registration altogether would have to pass 3 steps in order to get on the rolls:
- Have a real driver's license or state ID number that matches the name and address, or not include a driver's license/state ID number.
- If no driver's license/state ID number, then they need to have a social security number that matches the name and address, or they don't include a social security number.
- If they don't have a driver's license/state ID number or a social security number, then they MUST show additional ID at the polls in order to vote.

This all sounds real fine and dandy, and is the way the law is supposed to work, but here in Ohio the Secretary of State did not initially allow observers on early voting days, and has been found in violation of HAVA by a federal judge. She is now appealing the ruling so that she will not have to complete the checks and not report to the 88 county election commissions any fraudulently registered voters by next week.

There is less then a week to check the registrations of tens of thousands of newly registered voters that will be voting by absentee ballot. Once the envelope is opened, and the ballot taken out, there is no way to distinguish one vote from another. This means that any illegally registered voters ballots will be counted as real for purposes of the election.

[Mabus]

Some people fucked up. That doesn't say anything about Obama, the Democratic Party or the people who support them as a whole. To suggest it does is silly.
Anyone that supported the KKK is not responsible for the acts of a few of its members.


Get real.

[Kembal]

This all sounds real fine and dandy, and is the way the law is supposed to work, but here in Ohio the Secretary of State did not initially allow observers on early voting days, and has been found in violation of HAVA by a federal judge. She is now appealing the ruling so that she will not have to complete the checks and not report to the 88 county election commissions any fraudulently registered voters by next week.

There is less then a week to check the registrations of tens of thousands of newly registered voters that will be voting by absentee ballot. Once the envelope is opened, and the ballot taken out, there is no way to distinguish one vote from another. This means that any illegally registered voters ballots will be counted as real for purposes of the election.

Brunner's going to lose that appeal. And I don't really care if she's a Dem, shame on her for trying to delay the processing of registration verification.

[Kembal]

Anyone that supported the KKK is not responsible for the acts of a few of its members.


Get real.

Would you say there's a difference between members and temporarily contracted employees?

[Mabus]

Would you say there's a difference between members and temporarily contracted employees?
Of course, but when those "temps" are instructed, and their actions not controlled, by the "members" who do we blame?

Proper training and oversight are essential in the legal maze that is election law.

[Mabus]

Brunner's going to lose that appeal. And I don't really care if she's a Dem, shame on her for trying to delay the processing of registration verification.
If you notice I did not bring up her p[arty affiliation in my post. I even agreed with someone in another thread about the BS that Blackwell pulled during the 2004 election, and he is from the opposing party.

Elections are "sacred" to me. I do not stand for shenanigans on either side, I stand against them.

[Kembal]

Of course, but when those "temps" are instructed, and their actions not controlled, by the "members" who do we blame?

Proper training and oversight are essential in the legal maze that is election law.

True. And ACORN's system of paying people to register voters is inherently at fault in the whole mess. If they wanted to continue with it, then they definitely need a more stringent way of flagging the fraudulent registrations before they pass them on. (however, they should just stop with the payments altogether)

But considering the law compels them to turn in even fradulent registrations, it's a long long leap from a bunch of unemployed people turning in fraudulent registrations so they can get money to alleging an organized, systematic conspiracy to commit voter fraud.

[Mabus]

True. And ACORN's system of paying people to register voters is inherently at fault in the whole mess. If they wanted to continue with it, then they definitely need a more stringent way of flagging the fraudulent registrations before they pass them on. (however, they should just stop with the payments altogether)
I completely agree.

And there must be a time limit on turning in registrations. One of the complaints I am hearing from people in my county (Cuyahoga, gods help me...) is that tens of thousands of registrations were dumped on them at the same time. This is an overload that has (and will) cause problems in verification until resolved by the legislature.

Perhaps a "Registrations collected by non-public entities must be turned in by the entities to a Board of Elections within one week of collection." to stop potential abuse-through-overload?


But considering the law compels them to turn in even fradulent registrations, it's a long long leap from a bunch of unemployed people turning in fraudulent registrations so they can get money to alleging an organized, systematic conspiracy to commit voter fraud.
If they have found instances of even one fraud, and have not sent out managers to observe, and/or fired employees, then they knew potential problems existed and were negligent in addressing the problem.

And I am all for hiring low income people as well, but should an organization such as this not have some rules on hiring? The hiring of felons convicted of Identity Theft should be disallowed, as well as those convicted of other potentially problematic crimes, when dealing with information collection (name, address, social security numbers). That ACORN does not screen and disallow for those convicted of these crimes seems to invite problems.

[Parkbandit]

Self-proclaimed conservatives, or anyone with even slight libertarian leanings, supporting a national ID card system make baby Jeebus cry.

I hadn't realized that in order to consider yourself a conservative you had to agree with 100% of everything on their platform. I guess I'll turn in my Conservative card then, because I'm 100% for this Federal ID program.

[Stanley Burrell]

Why would you take anyone who called themselves ACORN seriously?

Fucking WALNUT and SUNFLOWER SEEDS paid me in Newports and prostitutes. Bastards.

[Tsa`ah]

An activist group setting up quotas, paying ... or anything other than just setting volunteers out to do what they can will always be a disaster at some point.

At this point there is evidence of fraud on behalf of some volunteers ... this doesn't make the entire organization bad. There's also the flip side that is being ignored ... such as GOP operatives (or just individuals with political motivation) intentionally filling out fraudulent forms.

It is apparent that large turnouts benefit the Dems, and smaller turnouts favor the GOP ... either party will do what they can to exploit this.

Democrat groups will attempt to register anything walking upright, the GOP will attempt to have any vote likely to be against them disqualified or disenfranchised .... as is evident by McCain campaign tactics of attempting to have registrations and absentee ballots disqualified. Even going as far as spreading misinformation via mail and phone.

I begrudge ACORN nothing at this point. The GOP has made voting an all out war of slime tactics .... it's about time that Dem groups counter the tactics.

[Keller]

It doesn't excuse anyone of anything. I think it's more your hypocritical statements that one is not as bad as the other. It's fucking retarded. They're both inexcusable.

I think it's point is that it doesn't think ACORN is trying to get 72 votes for Obama. They'd pull a play from the GOP and register dead people if they were doing that. They were were just lazy liberals trying to do their job.

At least that's how I read it's post.

[Keller]

/agree

I'm also on record for stating that for those very few people that cannot afford the cost of this Federal ID Card, that there is a process in place to get them one for free or at a very reduced price.

Like, at least a few cigs that the ACORN people gave you.

[Clove]

I think it's point is that it doesn't think ACORN is trying to get 72 votes for Obama. They'd pull a play from the GOP and register dead people if they were doing that. They were were just lazy liberals trying to do their job.

At least that's how I read it's post.Why should we assume that fraud is unintentional? Regardless of what It thinks?

[Keller]

Why should we assume that fraud is unintentional? Regardless of what It thinks?

Because the dude can't vote 72 times. He just filled out 72 forms.

It's just stupid kids trying to comply with stupid rules.

Nobody needs a tin foil hat to figure that out.

Well. Maybe Backlash does. But that's for an entirely different reason.

[tyrant-201]

Anyone and everyone should be against voter fraud/intimidation. Undemocratic to the T. So the same people who criticize ACORN, as a liberal organization, for voter fraud (if indeed it has occurred).. should denounce the shady things that have gone on on the other side of the coin as well. It doesn't matter which party it is, it's undemocratic and wrong and it needs to stop.

[Tsa`ah]

This isn't a case of voter fraud unless the person voted ... more than once.

[Mabus]

This isn't a case of voter fraud unless the person voted ... more than once.
In Ohio we may not be able to tell.

The county Boards of Election have still not received their requested new voter registration reviews from the Secretary of State. Absentee ballots will be opened in less then a week. Once opened, no chance of voter review.

[tyrant-201]

This isn't a case of voter fraud unless the person voted ... more than once.

Either way, you can't excuse it. People have to play by the rules. If someone says they're already registered, you leave it at that. To my understanding, ACORN does a lot of good things. What this does is undermine it, giving a lot of people reason(legitimately so) to be critical of them. May not be voter fraud, yet. May not have been done with the intention of voter fraud. But I for one am not going to excuse it either way.

[Parkbandit]

I begrudge ACORN nothing at this point. The GOP has made voting an all out war of slime tactics .... it's about time that Dem groups counter the tactics.

Hopefully, this is where Ashliana will come in and post "B-b-b-b-b-b-but the Republicans"

I doubt it though.

[Parkbandit]

Either way, you can't excuse it. People have to play by the rules. If someone says they're already registered, you leave it at that. To my understanding, ACORN does a lot of good things. What this does is undermine it, giving a lot of people reason(legitimately so) to be critical of them. May not be voter fraud, yet. May not have been done with the intention of voter fraud. But I for one am not going to excuse it either way.


Actually, he just did excuse it. Shocker.

[Gan]

I think it's point is that it doesn't think ACORN is trying to get 72 votes for Obama. They'd pull a play from the GOP and register dead people if they were doing that. They were were just lazy liberals trying to do their job.

At least that's how I read it's post.

Why is this not a conspiracy and yet the Osama voter ballots in NY a conspiracy?


If I had to put money on a cause this would be it:

GOP printer tech who is just hired labor makes the swap. Lazy election commission doesn't catch it. Cards go out. Error is found. Printer tech is fired. Bipartisan message of innocent error.

I don't think the commission is behind this. But I do believe it was originally intentional.

So I'll see your ballot conspiracy and raise you an ACORN conspiracy theory.

ACORN directors receive funding from DNC backers, due to propensity of homeless people to be 1)easily influenced and 2) have a huge track record for voting for social agenda Democrat party, and direct all front line workers to have a signature quota in order to be compensated for their work knowing the opportunity for falsification of records exist and the loophole that all records submitted must be considered by the voter registration board.

I dont think all of the individual workers are behind this. But I do believe it was originally intentional.

;)

[Clove]

Because the dude can't vote 72 times. He just filled out 72 forms.

It's just stupid kids trying to comply with stupid rules.

Nobody needs a tin foil hat to figure that out.

Well. Maybe Backlash does. But that's for an entirely different reason.Except that voting officials are concerned of exactly that. I'm sorry but "It's just an innocent mistake when the Democrats do it" just doesn't hold water.

[Keller]

Except that voting officials are concerned of exactly that. I'm sorry but "It's just an innocent mistake when the Democrats do it" just doesn't hold water.

Will the homeless guy vote 72 times? Or will ACORN get 71 mail ballots?

Explain how you think this guy is going to vote 72 times.

[Keller]

Why is this not a conspiracy and yet the Osama voter ballots in NY a conspiracy?

Do you even know the definition of conspiracy? (Hint: it involves more than one person; my hypothetical situation involves one person)

Quit being a tool.

[Gan]

Quit being a tool.

ROFL

Pot meet kettle

[Keller]

ROFL

Pot meet kettle

No. I'm serious.

It's been going on for a few weeks. Maybe it's the stress; maybe it's the election. But it's getting old.

[ViridianAsp]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Now I get to pull the "BIGGEST HYPOCRITE OF THE DAY" picture back at you. You're an idiot, PB, and rank up there with Crb as the most blindly partisan, Kool-Aid chugging idiots on the forum.

You know, this really gets me here. You seem to think we're blind to political parties being...Evil? Backstabbing, manipulating..

They all are, it's more what is the lesser of those to evils and who might fuck up the worst. My money is on Obama fucking up the worst.

So my vote will be for McCain. When the Democratic party puts a less shady presidential candidate up for election, I might vote democrat.

Oh and, Fuck you I hate Kool-Aid. Half of the time you make yourself look more like a slack-jawed idiot than you claim PB is (No offense PB).