For Daniel

[crb]

So what? Last winter/spring when Obama was talking about doubling capital gains or more and bringing dividend taxes up to 35%. I posted that investors were starting to discount stocks based on the knowledge that investment taxes were going up.

This, is of course, a bad decision because investment taxes are taxes on capital, and businesses need capital to function & grow & create jobs (see current crisis) and so discouraging private investment through higher taxes kinda is a bad idea, which is why Obama's tax plan (I'm not sure what it is this week honestly, I know he has backed down considerably from the primaries but I'm not sure what his plan is now... I know he now says 95% of "Working people" won't get a tax increase, but I know that the liberal definition of "working people" is pretty subjective) is such a bad idea.

Anyways... Daniel has posted since that I'm crazy, despite the fact that I'll freely admit this wasn't my original idea, I got it from all the investors, economists, and other experts interviewed on CNBC which I watch all day long.

Even Art Kashin, who has been working on Wallstreet for 42 years, and is well known and respected as an analyst for the media (see his daily segments on CBS, CNBC, etc). said it yesterday morning.

So, for Daniel, I found the video.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=883410100&play=1

Now, of course, no one is claiming the current crash is a direct result of Obama gaining in the polls. However it is a contributing factor to the market.

IF you believe that the problem right now is business/bank access to capital/credit (which everyone acknowledges), and IF you believe that raising taxes on a behavior discourages that behavior (which is common sense, and which everyone should acknowledge, and which even left leaning people acknowledge when it is something like a gas tax - see all the attacks on McCain's gas tax holiday). And if you agree that the stock market is a futures market (which is true and well known). Then you would have to (if you're a reasonable person) acknowledge that a threat of a future tax increase on capital investment would exacerbate the current capital crisis and is being factored into the stock market in the form of more selling and lower prices.

Not that we wouldn't have selling anyways, we merely have more selling than we might otherwise have.

Obama can raise my income taxes if he needs to, but I really wish he would come out and agree to not raise capital gains taxes. In fact, I wish that we'd get another stimulus (if that is what it takes) which included provisions making bush's capital gains and dividend tax cuts permanent (Close hedge fund manager loopholes if you want). That, I thought, would do a lot. And it isn't like the government will lose much money. I mean... seriously...how much revenue do you think the government is going to gain from capital gains taxes in a year when both real estate and the stock market crashed? Anyone with gains will sell off some losers to even things out, and most people aren't going to have much long term gains anyways. The only people with investing gains will be short term traders, banking on the volatility, and such income is treated as regular income anyways.

[Allereli]

obsess much?

[crb]

Losing a hundred thousand dollars on paper can make you care about the stock market. Call me crazy.

[Allereli]

Losing a hundred thousand dollars on paper can make you care about the stock market. Call me crazy.

I mean you obsess enough to start a new thread addressed to one person about his opinion and write a big wall of text that I'm not going to read

[TheEschaton]

I love how your shifting blame onto Obama for a tax proposal he made which A) isn't in effect right now, B) probably would never get into effect exactly as he wants it, and C) relies on him become PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

"Oh noes, it's Obama's fault!" I'm sorry, if the market can be driven so spuriously by speculation like that, that's a flaw in the market system.

I wrote a paper for the need for more regulation to protect against rapid speculation in global markets last fall. I wish I had published it, but I got an A in the class, that's good enough.

-TheE-

[Daniel]

I stopped regarding after you try and suggest that the current stock market crash is a function of Obama winning the election.

You're stupid. Stop please.

[crb]

I love how your shifting blame onto Obama for a tax proposal he made which A) isn't in effect right now, B) probably would never get into effect exactly as he wants it, and C) relies on him become PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

"Oh noes, it's Obama's fault!" I'm sorry, if the market can be driven so spuriously by speculation like that, that's a flaw in the market system.

I wrote a paper for the need for more regulation to protect against rapid speculation in global markets last fall. I wish I had published it, but I got an A in the class, that's good enough.

-TheE-
So you don't think Obama is leading in the polls.

And you don't think that the stock market functions as a futures market.

...

I hate to burst your bubble, but you're wrong on both.

[Parkbandit]

You're stupid. Stop please.

http://rofl.wheresthebeef.co.uk/Pot%20Kettle%20Black.jpg

[NocturnalRob]

racist

[nub]

I mean you obsess enough to start a new thread addressed to one person about his opinion and write a big wall of text that I'm not going to read

Well maybe you won't read it, because perhaps you don't have money in the stock market? But I read it, I think it was informative and exactly along the lines of what my bosses were saying this morning.

I find it pretty interesting and if you want a shortened version since you didn't want to read what he said....

There are people out there, a lot of rich investors, who took their money out now, because if Obama is in office, their capital gains taxes would rise and would have less money.

[CrystalTears]

Obama winning the polls slightly less than a month away from the election is the cause of all this? Really? You're seriously buying that bullshit?

Just because the powers that be have been refusing to acknowledge that there has been an economic problem occurring slowly and steadily all year doesn't mean it's not true. Some here on the PC have been saying that this election is going to be based on who can handle the economic crisis because there will be one. To say that Obama is suddenly a factor of this is just beyond fucking stupid. I don't buy it.

[nub]

I stopped regarding after you try and suggest that the current stock market crash is a function of Obama winning the election.

You're stupid. Stop please.

He didn't say the current stock market crash is a function of Obama winning.

He said "while although the stocks would still be going down.... blah blah blah".

His leading in the polls does have a direct effect. I am in the business and a lot of people are pulling out because of the fear of what Obama would do with taxes. This effects people (like me) who have a lot less in the stock market.

People aren't going to wait until the law goes into effect. Nothing wrong with speculating. People are betting that he is going to win, so they are pulling out based on what they're assuming.

[Daniel]

Rofl @ whitey pulling their money out of the market because Obama might be elected.

News flash Genius: Taxes are going up. I don't give a fuck what any candidate has to say.

[Gan]

I love how your shifting blame onto Obama for a tax proposal he made which A) isn't in effect right now, B) probably would never get into effect exactly as he wants it, and C) relies on him become PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
-TheE-

The bolded part is what concerns me. And yes, that can be applied to any candidate.

Reminds me of the following joke:


While walking down the street one day a US senator is tragically hit
by a truck and dies.

His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.

"Welcome to heaven," says St. Peter. "Before you settle in, it seems
there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you
see, so we're not sure what to do with you."

"No problem, just let me in," says the man.

"Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we'll do
is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose
where to spend eternity."

"Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven," says the
senator.

"I'm sorry, but we have our rules."

And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes
down, down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing
in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with
him.

Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him,
Shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while
getting Rich at the expense of the people.

They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar
and champagne.

Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has
a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time
that before he realizes it, it is time to go.

Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator
rises...

The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St.
Peter is waiting for him.

"Now it's time to visit heaven."

So, 24 hours pass with the senator joining a group of contented souls
moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing.

They have agood time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have
gone by and St. Peter returns.

"Well, then, you 've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now
choose your eternity."

The senator reflects for a minute, then he answers: "Well, I would
Never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I
think I would be better off in hell."

So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down
to hell.

Now the doors of the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren
land covered with waste and garbage.

He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and
putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above.

The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder. "I
don't understand," stammers the senator. "Yesterday I was here and
there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar,
drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there's just a
wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened?"

The devil looks at him, smiles and says, "Yesterday we were
campaigning. Today you voted."

[nub]

Rofl @ whitey pulling their money out of the market because Obama might be elected.

News flash Genius: Taxes are going up. I don't give a fuck what any candidate has to say.

Taxes can go up sure, but not necessarily on the capital gains, which is what is being takled about.

And if you're talking about me taking my money out? Well you're wrong, because I didn't (which ,of course I should have).

Also... laughing at the people who got their money out of the market? Shouldn't it be the other way around, them laughing at the people who left the money in?

[TheEschaton]

So you don't think Obama is leading in the polls.

And you don't think that the stock market functions as a futures market.

...

I hate to burst your bubble, but you're wrong on both.

I didn't say either of those things, I simply said that such spurious speculation is a flaw of the market (which needs to be regulated or changed), not the fault of Obama for leading in an election. Try to learn how to read. You really are a fucking moron.

-TheE-

[DeV]

News flash Genius: Taxes are going up. I don't give a fuck what any candidate has to say.My sentiments exactly.

[Clove]

Rofl @ whitey pulling their money out of the market because Obama might be elected.

News flash Genius: Taxes are going up. I don't give a fuck what any candidate has to say.


My sentiments exactly.X3.

[Gan]

Pulling money out of the market right now is stupid, regardless of who's going to be president.

[CrystalTears]

Pulling money out of the market right now is stupid, regardless of who's going to be president.
QFT

[crb]

Obama winning the polls slightly less than a month away from the election is the cause of all this? Really? You're seriously buying that bullshit?

Just because the powers that be have been refusing to acknowledge that there has been an economic problem occurring slowly and steadily all year doesn't mean it's not true. Some here on the PC have been saying that this election is going to be based on who can handle the economic crisis because there will be one. To say that Obama is suddenly a factor of this is just beyond fucking stupid. I don't buy it.
Who says suddenly?



Last winter/spring when Obama was talking about doubling capital gains or more and bringing dividend taxes up to 35%. I posted that investors were starting to discount stocks based on the knowledge that investment taxes were going up.


And who says only?



Now, of course, no one is claiming the current crash is a direct result of Obama gaining in the polls. However it is a contributing factor to the market.


CrystalTears, you suck at reading comprehension.

[crb]

I didn't say either of those things, I simply said that such spurious speculation is a flaw of the market (which needs to be regulated or changed), not the fault of Obama for leading in an election. Try to learn how to read. You really are a fucking moron.

-TheE-
You sure you didn't say either of those things?

You said I was wrong because the tax policies aren't law yet, meaning you must think the stock market doesn't function as a futures market.

You said I was wrong because Obama isn't president, which goes back to both the futures market and the fact that Obama is way ahead right now in the polls and leading in the odds in Vegas.

What other meaning could I take from your (idiotic) post other than that you don't think stocks trade on future speculation and that you don't think Obama's lead has been increasing in recent weaks?

[crb]

Pulling money out of the market right now is stupid, regardless of who's going to be president.
Would you have said the same thing last week before the market went down another 20%?

The fact is people are scared, and one of the things that scares them is Obama's trade protectionism and tax policies. It may not be rational selling, but it is still selling.

[CrystalTears]

CrystalTears, you suck at reading comprehension.Yes because I'm the only one who thinks you're full of stupid.

[Clove]

Yes because I'm the only one who thinks you're full of stupid.O noez! Obama crashed teh market!

[TheEschaton]

I'm pretty sure my first response said:


I'm sorry, if the market can be driven so spuriously by speculation like that, that's a flaw in the market system.


So, while the first sentence does in fact mock you for blaming Obama for things that obviously aren't in his control (outside of his deciding to run for President), the ultimate context of the whole post is a generalized derision for a system which can allow such ridiculous speculation. In fact, that I implicitly acknowledge such speculation exists suggests I believe both that Obama is winning, and that the markets is a futures-based enterprise.

So, a douchenozzlesayswhat?

-TheE-

[DeV]

I blame it on the fact that McCain is currently trailing Obama in polls. It's all his fault.

[Gan]

Would you have said the same thing last week before the market went down another 20%?
Yes, in fact I did say that very thing.


The fact is people are scared, and one of the things that scares them is Obama's trade protectionism and tax policies. It may not be rational selling, but it is still selling.
If you can source actual quotes from investors who are irrationally selling due to Obama's policies that are not even implemented yet, while he's not even elected yet, then I'll believe you.

Otherwise you're fishing for whale with a snoopy starter pole and string.

[thefarmer]

Otherwise you're fishing for whale with a snoopy starter pole and string.

:rofl:

I wonder if the same people who are scared of Obama as president and selling also consult astrological charts and psychics?

[Kranar]

Now, of course, no one is claiming the current crash is a direct result of Obama gaining in the polls. However it is a contributing factor to the market.


Oh... my... God...

[crb]

Yes, in fact I did say that very thing.

If you can source actual quotes from investors who are irrationally selling due to Obama's policies that are not even implemented yet, while he's not even elected yet, then I'll believe you.

Otherwise you're fishing for whale with a snoopy starter pole and string.
Did you not watch the video I posted a link to?

I'm sure all the people who have posted here who have investments are indeed investors, right?

Then there have been hundreds of people who have mentioned it that I've seen on TV over the last year. Hundreds of people, and they're not campaign talking points. I watch CNBC during the day, they interview traders and economists and hedge fund managers and CEOs and brokers and analysts. People who are paid to think about the economy and the stock market, and THEY have been saying, ever since Obama started beating hillary way back when, that there was fear and selling going on because people wanted to be appropriately situated before any capital gains hike.

Did you watch Bill O'Reilly's Obama interview? It was mentioned during that.

You'd have to be a moron, literally, to not realize that stock market traders speculate on future political changes and that an increase in capital gains taxes would be a negative influence on the market, so people would want to get ahead of the curve and sell in advance of any such thing being a reality.

Do you think people pulling money out of hedge funds, or to bring it down to street level, withdrawing money from a bank, do so because the hedge fund or bank is bust? No... they do it because they fear it going bust in the future.

It is all about the future, put on your thinking cap and muse on that for a little bit.

E even came back and admitted what I said was true, just that he didn't think it should be allowed.

No one is saying Obama is causing this crash, merely that his policies and fear of his administration is making it worse that it might otherwise be, the lesson to be learned is that his policies would be bad. People don't want another Herbert Hoover.

And no, no trader worth his salt would ever take your cavalier attitude of "it hasn't happened yet, he might not even win, I'm not going to consider the consequences of that eventuality."

The perceived probability of future events matters more than current ones. You'll see this all the time when businesses report earnings with good earnings but bad guidance. The business can beat expectations by 10%, and if they give poor guidance the stock will get hammered.

It is a futures market, and by definition nothing in the future is certain, so your claim that because "President Obama" is not yet certain so it can't matter is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

Take E's position that it is wrong that it does matter if you like, but don't insist that it doesn't matter.

[Apathy]

Oh... my... God...

x2

[Keller]

This is just another "root" in the "cause" of the crash.

You're not a tool crb . . . you're a toolbox.

[crb]

Why don't you attack Art Cashin and everyone else who has been interviewed and said this was a factor?

I'm sorry you dislike the message, but the messenger is fairly irrelevant to the truth.

[Keller]

Why don't you attack Art Cashin and everyone else who has been interviewed and said this was a factor?

I'm sorry you dislike the message, but the messenger is fairly irrelevant to the truth.

I think you missed my point.

You're a reactionary who uses entirely too much hyperbole for your own good.

I think you make intelligent points; but you can't temper them with any sense of restraint.

[crb]

I'll concede the point that I'm a passionate debater, I am, I know that.

[Keller]

I'll concede the point that I'm a passionate debater, I am, I know that.

You know you'd be a more effective debater if you didn't actively attempt to try and sound like a tool, right?

Why are you proud of this?

[crb]

I don't think you know what the insult "tool" means. Not that I want to argue with you over it. Calling people who disagree with you a tool doesn't make them so, I don't call you a tool even though you parrot left wing economic talking points all the time, because I know you've thought about the matter independently of them.

[Stretch]

Wow.

[Keller]

I don't think you know what the insult "tool" means. Not that I want to argue with you over it. Calling people who disagree with you a tool doesn't make them so, I don't call you a tool even though you parrot left wing economic talking points all the time, because I know you've thought about the matter independently of them.

You're a mindless GOP zombie. I wouldn't expect you to understand. It's ok. I forgive you.

[crb]

Does it make you feel better to insult the messenger rather than tackle the substance. I've got thick skin, and incredibly low blood pressure, I can take it.

Anyways... yet ANOTHER video showing people talking about how the markets are going down in part because of fear of Obama's tax plan.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=891082247&play=1

Related article:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10132008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/an_obama_panic__133374.htm

This is CNBC's on-air editor interviewing Obama supporting investors.

Also, I must comment, the Democrat activitist guy they had on discussing this story lied through his teeth. He said "The Bush Tax Cuts were for the wealthy only, which is why they didn't have a stimulus effect." Which is two lies. 1. They weren't for the wealthy only, you can argue that they favored the wealthy more, Keller has to much humor, but everyone got a tax cut. And secondly, there is no way to massage the data to say they didn't have a stimulus effect. The 01 stimulus checks did not, but after the 03 cuts the economy took off. That is a historical fact.

Anyways... again - not just me saying that Obama's tax plan is contributing to the current stock market decline.

[Tsa`ah]

So it's more Obama's tax plan and less Bush's "OMG we're fucked!"?

Personally I'd like to see taxes roll back to the days of FDR. Taxing trades would be a useful deterrent for speculative trading.

If only Nader had a chance.

[Keller]

Keller has to much humor.

You might want to revisit that thread.

But as you say, "If you repeat the same lie enough times people might believe it."

[Parkbandit]

If people believe that Obama being ahead in the polls has nothing to do with some people repositioning their money, then you are a fool. I know of at least 3 friends of mine that have taken measures in anticipation of the outcome of the election.

[Tsa`ah]

If people believe that Obama being ahead in the polls has nothing to do with some people repositioning their money, then you are a fool. I know of at least 3 friends of mine that have taken measures in anticipation of the outcome of the election.

Because your three friends are an adequate cross section of the market.

[g++]

If only more people would use the PB's 3 friends index we could have seen this coming.

[TheWitch]

So, I wonder....

Would the converse be true, in a world where McCain wasn't half dead and suffering from the early stages of parkinsons with a post-feminist floozy ding-dong of a running mate that is literally one chemo weakened 72 year old heart beat away from being president at which point I'm moving to Canada.....

If he were winning, would the market be going wild in the other direction, or at least not spiking down as drastically?

McCain says he'll cut capital gains taxes - or try to, or lie about that now to get the votes, or some shit like that. So, if The Obama is contributing to this sell-off, in this only slightly more terrifying alternate universe, would McCain be contributing to a 15,000 Dow?

I wonder.

Cthulhu for President. Seriously.

[Warriorbird]

Historically Republicans get scared about Democrats pre-election... and then there are market gains after. Republicans get excited about Republican Presidents pre election... and over time they pull in much less in the way of market return (though it is streakier...Republicans have higher highs and much lower lows).

[Tea & Strumpets]

Historically Republicans get scared about Democrats pre-election... and then there are market gains after. Republicans get excited about Republican Presidents pre election... and over time they pull in much less in the way of market return (though it is streakier...Republicans have higher highs and much lower lows).

That sounds like it's from the book "Economic Principles: An Unbiased, Libertarian View". All jokes aside, was there really any specific time that you were referring to when you used the word 'historically'?

[crb]

So, I wonder....

Would the converse be true, in a world where McCain wasn't half dead and suffering from the early stages of parkinsons with a post-feminist floozy ding-dong of a running mate that is literally one chemo weakened 72 year old heart beat away from being president at which point I'm moving to Canada.....

If he were winning, would the market be going wild in the other direction, or at least not spiking down as drastically?

McCain says he'll cut capital gains taxes - or try to, or lie about that now to get the votes, or some shit like that. So, if The Obama is contributing to this sell-off, in this only slightly more terrifying alternate universe, would McCain be contributing to a 15,000 Dow?

I wonder.

Cthulhu for President. Seriously.
No.

And for two reasons.

1. The driven force is not the candidates, they are merely contributors.

2. Democratic congress.

Fear of bad tax policy would be much less if McCain were in the lead by 14 points, and maybe that long term confidence would have us at 10k on the Dow instead of 8500. But we'd still be way below the 14k high. But in the end, even a President McCain would, at most, be able to veto premature expirations of the Bush cuts, he would not be able to renew them without the cooperation of congress.

Consequently, if Obama came forward and committed to a progrowth tax policy, with no tax increases on anyone, and tax cuts on business so we can compete with pro growth countries like Ireland for jobs - then I think you'd get the same effect as a flip in the polls.

[Warriorbird]

The period is the 20th century, T&S. The information is available from various sources. Election year...Republicans do better. Overall Democrats do.

I originally read the info in a book by Ken Fisher (who is a Libertarian) 'The Only Three Questions That Count' though. My grandfather invests with him.

[Tea & Strumpets]

The period is the 20th century, T&S. The information is available from various sources. Election year...Republicans do better. Overall Democrats do.

I originally read the info in a book by Ken Fisher (who is a Libertarian) 'The Only Three Questions That Count' though. My grandfather invests with him.

Enough said then. I thought you were referring to the 18th century and I had some handy arguments ready.

What do your last two sentences mean?

[Parkbandit]

Because your three friends are an adequate cross section of the market.

Not saying they are.. but it isn't what you propose of having zero effect at all.

Obama has already stated that he will be declaring a tax war on anyone making 250K a year. Well gee, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine that the people who he is targetting are the same individuals that are heavily trading on Wall Street.

[Keller]

Not saying they are.. but it isn't what you propose of having zero effect at all.

Obama has already stated that he will be declaring a tax war on anyone making 250K a year. Well gee, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine that the people who he is targetting are the same individuals that are heavily trading on Wall Street.

A tax war?

And that is on income, not capital gains.

Finally, I think crb disagrees with you re "rich people are the main investors in capital markets." Expect kind words in your general direction.

[crb]

I dislike the use of words like "rich" and "working families" because they are subjective.

My personal income fluctuates widely because I own a small business. I guess some years I'm rich, and other years I'm working?

Saying "main investor" is also somewhat subjective. In a political argument you must define all your assumptions.

What type of investor puts the most money into the market? Answer: Funds. Pension funds, endowment funds, mutual funds funded through working class 401ks, and yes also Hedge funds, which are the only type of fund dominated by the well off.

But are you really an investor if someone does it for you?

For individual investors, someone with an etrade account, you're more likely to be wealthier than not. But that doesn't mean individual investors account for a significant amount of investing.

Let me just pull a random stock out of the blue. Lockheed Martin. The percent of LMT held by institutions is 89%.

Individual investors nary make a dent in equity markets.

[Parkbandit]

:lol:

I just saw on SportsCenter that Wayne Huizenga is in a rush to sell the Dolphins before Obama wins the election.. saving millions in capital gains taxes.

But really.. Obama winning the election has nothing to do with people making business decisions...

[Tsa`ah]

The Dolphins have been a profitable team?

[Parkbandit]

The Dolphins have been a profitable team?

Are you really as stupid as you are pretending to be right now? You've proven foolish, ignorant and hypocritical.. but the one thing you still had going for you was your google pseudo-intellectualism.

PS - I'm getting you one of these.. PM me your address:

http://www.books4you.addr.com/humping-english-springer-spaniel.jpg

[Ignot]

Wow CRB you make it sound like Obama is to blame for this market decrease. First of all, its all priced in that democrats have majority in congress and they will dictate cap gain increases. McCain can slow things down but he can't stop tax increases.

Second, Did you even watch the video? It was the last 10 seconds and the UBS analyst said taxes will be a factor. yeah not shit but he wasn't referring to cap gains taxes specifically. He never once said that cap gains increases and Obama getting into office are the reason for such a big sell off. Is that what you took from that video?

Third, people always manage their tax gains/losses at the end of the year. It ALWAYS happens. Just because the cap gains rate goes up does not mean people pull their money out and stop investing. People will sell, sure, but they arent going to stop investing. Drop in December, pop in January. It's like clockwork.

McCain wants to cut it to 7.5% i think (i could be wrong on this) ? Obama wants to raise it. There are so few cap gains out there that i don't see how we can dig ourselves out of this deficit when we are cutting what little gains we have. News flash, the country needs money.

CRB I think you are letting this election thing get to you so much that its clouding your judgment. I have watched you get dumber and dumber with each post. You need a break from all this man. Go watch some football or something.

[crb]

Oh don't be a moron, go read a book or something.

When you tax an activity, you get less of it.

Capital is used to fund business expansion and job creation, taxing capital results in less of those activities.

The long term effects of higher taxes on capital and production is lower production growth, lower business growth, lower GDP growth, slower job growth, and perpetually higher unemployment. This is why most economists favor taxes on consumption rather than on production.

And yes, in the video they were talking about capital gains (and dividend taxes). And no, I never said it was the only reason. And yes, I've since posted a second video which talked about the same thing more specifically. And in fact I could probably find hundreds of videos if I wanted to spend my day doing that. People have been talking about this since late 2007.

Go read this, it is by a nobel laureate.
http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/archives/2008/01/tax_burdensbeck.html

Why is it liberals understand that you can raise the gas tax to encourage less gas usage, but they don't grasp how taxing business investment results in less of that in the long run as well.

[875000]

Historically Republicans get scared about Democrats pre-election... and then there are market gains after. Republicans get excited about Republican Presidents pre election... and over time they pull in much less in the way of market return (though it is streakier...Republicans have higher highs and much lower lows).

Not certain if this is the same analysis that I saw or a similar one. One of the main conclusions is, so I will assume it is the same.

On a net basis, the stock market tends to do better with Democrats holding the Presidency.

On a net basis, the stock market also tends to do better with Republicans in control of Congress.

I never did see which was a stronger factor.

[Gan]

Oh don't be a moron, go read a book or something.

When you tax an activity, you get less of it.

Capital is used to fund business expansion and job creation, taxing capital results in less of those activities.

The long term effects of higher taxes on capital and production is lower production growth, lower business growth, lower GDP growth, slower job growth, and perpetually higher unemployment. This is why most economists favor taxes on consumption rather than on production.

And yes, in the video they were talking about capital gains (and dividend taxes). And no, I never said it was the only reason. And yes, I've since posted a second video which talked about the same thing more specifically. And in fact I could probably find hundreds of videos if I wanted to spend my day doing that. People have been talking about this since late 2007.

Go read this, it is by a nobel laureate.
http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/archives/2008/01/tax_burdensbeck.html

Why is it liberals understand that you can raise the gas tax to encourage less gas usage, but they don't grasp how taxing business investment results in less of that in the long run as well.

Nice post.

[Warriorbird]

That's counterbalanced by the issues with running ever greater deficits and running up the debt. It isn't conservative to go, "Oh! We'll just never pay it!"

Yet that's the operating principle post 1971 Republicans seem to run under.

[Tsa`ah]

Are you really as stupid as you are pretending to be right now? You've proven foolish, ignorant and hypocritical.. but the one thing you still had going for you was your google pseudo-intellectualism.

PS - I'm getting you one of these.. PM me your address:

http://www.books4you.addr.com/humping-english-springer-spaniel.jpg

It was a yes or no question ... thanks for demonstrating your inability to answer the simplest of questions.

[crb]

Not certain if this is the same analysis that I saw or a similar one. One of the main conclusions is, so I will assume it is the same.

On a net basis, the stock market tends to do better with Democrats holding the Presidency.

On a net basis, the stock market also tends to do better with Republicans in control of Congress.

I never did see which was a stronger factor.
IMO those comparisons are poor. The thing is... there haven't been enough presidents from parties with consistent policies for that study to be statistically significant.

We've only had 43 presidents, and party platforms are always evolving, and we've only had a stock market for around one century.

[Warriorbird]

Becker and Posner also both think the idea of running huge deficits is stupid, crb. They thought the Iraq war was economic suicide. Reconcile that?

[Parkbandit]

It was a yes or no question ... thanks for demonstrating your inability to answer the simplest of questions.

Ask a really dumb question... Well you should know the rest.

[Tsa`ah]

Ask a really dumb question... Well you should know the rest.

It wasn't a dumb question ... you just can't wrap your head around the question to provide an answer.

And yes, you should stick with that closing statement from here on out because EVERYONE knows the rest when it comes to your posts.

[Ignot]

Why is it liberals understand that you can raise the gas tax to encourage less gas usage, but they don't grasp how taxing business investment results in less of that in the long run as well.

Are you saying people invest less when cap gains tax is higher? They may manage their financial plan differently but they arent going to stop investing. What, are people selling all their stocks and putting it under their mattress because the cap gains rate is going to go up? God damnit CRB you have turned into a fucking moron and are ruining the PC with your over the top garbage. Just stop posting for one fucking day. "Go jerkoff then think about it."