Pelosi's Speech

[crb]

So right before the speech she gave a rantingly partisan speech... then the vote failed... hmm... thanks for the political grandstanding Nance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey3ZlsmIkz4

I also find the third person referring to oneself at the beginning humorous.

[crb]

refernece:

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/09/gop_pelosi_killed_bill_with_pa.html

[Kembal]

Seriously, if the Republicans are going to use that as their reason as to why they failed to deliver their votes, they're fucked. One speech from Pelosi and they're ready to let the national economy to collapse?

ROFL at you trying to pass along their spin.

[Keller]

Tell whoever sends you these e-mails that this "talking point" isn't going to help.

If the GOP rejected this proposal because of Pelosi's speech -- fuck them. That means that they had a Ashliana-complex and needed to get in the final political word. That's repugnant.

[Back]

The truth hurts I guess. I like Frank’s response...


Barney Frank fielded the question about the GOP's claim and responded that he is "appalled" by the accusation and mystified that Republicans would refuse to vote their conscience because somebody "hurt their feelings."

"Give me those 12 peoples' names and I will go talk uncharacteristically nicely to them and maybe they'll think about the country," Frank said, eliciting laughter from reporters.

[TheEschaton]

Seriously, the GOP is hella organized. I think my boss gets (some sort of) EMail like crb, cause as soon as I walked in, he started ranting about Pelosi.

-TheE-

[Back]

I found the Frank response clip here...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/29/frank-because-somebody-hu_n_130328.html

[ClydeR]

It was McCain's political stunt last week that caused it to fail.


McCain says his "suspension" was meant to help the country. Critics say it was meant to help his campaign. It now seems that he's failed by either standard.

When McCain landed in Washington Thursday morning--more than 24 hours after announcing that he had "suspended" his campaign--there was a preliminary bipartisan agreement on the table that appeared to be moving along well (although it was far from final). On Wednesday night, House Minority Leader John Boehner and Speaker Nancy Pelosi have even issued a joint statement declaring progress. But McCain's presence politicized the proceedings, and dissatisfied House Republicans used his involvement as a pretext to raise the volume of their objections. By the time McCain arrived at the White House for a key meeting with President Bush and Barack Obama, the House GOP was in full revolt. But McCain remained mostly silent. For the rest of the day, in fact, he "rarely came close to the Capitol suites and committee rooms where the talks were taking place." By 10:30 that night, negotiations had imploded.

But despite promising to boycott the debate unless Congress reached a “consensus on legislation," McCain cited "significant progress" and skipped off to Oxford on Friday morning--even though a deal seemed more distant than when he suspended his campaign. Apparently, McCain was confident that everything would work out. In fact, when he returned Saturday to Washington, he didn't bother to visit Capitol Hill, choosing instead (in the words of top aide Mark Salter) to "do what he needs to do by phone" from the campaign's Arlington headquarters. That night, as negotiators struck a deal, he dined at a four-star restaurant. On Sunday, chief McCain strategist Steve Schmidt confidently predicted on Meet the Press that McCain had "help[ed] bring all of the parties to the table, including the House Republicans, whose votes were needed to pass this." And McCain communications director Jill Hazelbaker told FOX News this morning that the deal would not have happened "without Senator McCain."

So much, it seems, for not "phoning it in." After a weekend of dial-tone diplomacy, two-thirds of House Republicans--the same people McCain claimed to have "brought to the table"--voted against the bill. (Most were at risk representatives seeking to cover their electoral derrieres.) Meanwhile, the Democrats--whom McCain immediately tried to blame, along with Obama--delivered more votes than they promised. When the bailout compromise was on the verge of passing, McCain wanted to claim credit--even though he did little more than complicate and extend the process. So now that it's failed, doesn't he deserve some of the blame for its defeat?

More... (http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/09/29/the-bailout-bill-fails-should-we-blame-mccain.aspx)

[Parkbandit]

Seriously, if the Republicans are going to use that as their reason as to why they failed to deliver their votes, they're fucked. One speech from Pelosi and they're ready to let the national economy to collapse?

ROFL at you trying to pass along their spin.

I actually agree. Boo hoo, they got their feelings hurt, so they decide to not vote for a bill? That's great when they are debating bear DNA or some other nonsense.

Of course, it was stupid of Pelosi to do it in the first place.. but I hope that's not the reason some Republicans voted against it.

I'm still at work.. anyone have the tally of yea/nae votes and parties?

[oldanforgotten]

Seriously, the GOP is hella organized. I think my boss gets (some sort of) EMail like crb, cause as soon as I walked in, he started ranting about Pelosi.

-TheE-

The bailout plan sucks. It's an orphan bill that sucks balls but is necessary to re-enable the lending market. The GOP has to step up and own to the fact that Bush has clusterfucked the economy with lack of regulations, and the democrats need to step and realize that the republicans demands for accountability, while ironic since they were the ones who allowed the lenders to do what they did, need to be made.

In all honesty, kudos to McCain as he has done a lot of work to re-write the bill into something that is only an 8 on the shitty solution scale rather than a 10. Kudos to the Senate for working to make something they could live with and passing it, and fuck the House Republicans for their posturing and non-recognizance of how serious the issue is. Their lack of requirements for controls and regulations caused the mess in the first place, something dems have been clamoring for over the last 3 years.

Fuck Pelosi too for basically giving a speech that did nothing but self-promote this from a partisan standpoint. This economic crisis has gotten to the point that it requires a solution, and is no longer a platform for partisan bickering. Play partisan games after something is done and the issue is fixed. Until then, just shut the fuck up, take off your party colors, and fix the problems.

[oldanforgotten]

I actually agree. Boo hoo, they got their feelings hurt, so they decide to not vote for a bill? That's great when they are debating bear DNA or some other nonsense.

Of course, it was stupid of Pelosi to do it in the first place.. but I hope that's not the reason some Republicans voted against it.

I'm still at work.. anyone have the tally of yea/nae votes and parties?

228-205 against

about 60% of democrats were yea
about 33% of republicans were yea

[Parkbandit]

I hadn't realized that McCain was such a driving force in the reform of this bill. Got a source on that?

And I'm not fully convinced that this bill had to be passed in order to re-enable the lending market.

[oldanforgotten]

It was McCain's political stunt last week that caused it to fail.


McCain actually did do quite a lot to change the timing of the release of funds, and did a lot to ensure the 2 day disclosure was placed into the bill. That the bill failed was certainly not his fault in action. His posturing on the other hand was completely unnecessary.

[ClydeR]

I'm still at work.. anyone have the tally of yea/nae votes and parties?

Here it is.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

I know the "Bill Title" at the top sounds like something else, but that's sure it.

[Back]

McCain’s campaign issued a statement that blamed Obama and the Democratic party for getting the bill passed.

Someone please explain to me how bold face lying when more republicans voted against it than democrats.


The House vote: 228-205 against the measure, with members of both parties reluctant to approve a deal approved by their leaders. [Ninety-five] 95 Democrats and 133 Republicans voted no.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/09/house_blocks_bailout_parties_s.html

If he had said “Congress and old school politics failed the vote” I could let that pass. I might have even applauded.

[Parkbandit]

McCain’s campaign issued a statement that blamed Obama and the Democratic party for getting the bill passed.

Someone please explain to me how bold face lying when more republicans voted against it than democrats.

The bill would pass if the Democrats all voted for the bill. The fact that 30% of the Democrats voted against it should be telling.

[oldanforgotten]

I hadn't realized that McCain was such a driving force in the reform of this bill. Got a source on that?

And I'm not fully convinced that this bill had to be passed in order to re-enable the lending market.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080929/us_time/thebailoutbillthatnobodylikes

That has some basics as to what McCain helped in working on.

As for it being required to re-enable the lending market, that's something not too many people know for certain. In the end, I'm sure the lending market can still run as is, but not at the pace required to keep things churning at an acceptable pace. I don't have specific numbers, but when all sides agree, including the fed chief, that a bailout of the lending market is required to keep the economy away from stagflation, I'll buy that something (even if its not necessarily this) had to be done.

[Back]

The bill would pass if the Democrats all voted for the bill. The fact that 30% of the Democrats voted against it should be telling.

I’m with you on that. My point was McCain’s campaign issuing a statement blaming Obama and the democrats for making it fail which is patently untrue.

[oldanforgotten]

McCain’s campaign issued a statement that blamed Obama and the Democratic party for getting the bill passed.

Someone please explain to me how bold face lying when more republicans voted against it than democrats.



http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/09/house_blocks_bailout_parties_s.html

If he had said “Congress and old school politics failed the vote” I could let that pass. I might have even applauded.

Because the original bill was written in a way that would be more acceptable to democrats than Republicans. It was the House republicans and Senate republicans that demanded certain contingencies not written in the original bill. Concessions were made for republicans in the House and Senate, not for the Dems. I still don't see how it qualifies as blame. The bill as a whole sucks, and is basically a free cash giveaway to lenders who abused the market earlier and made tons of money.

[oldanforgotten]

seriously though, in all truth and spin aside, who caused the issue at this point is irrelevant. The only important thing as of this moment is fixing it. Play the blame game afterwards.

[Back]

seriously though, in all truth and spin aside, who caused the issue at this point is irrelevant. The only important thing as of this moment is fixing it. Play the blame game afterwards.

Exactly. Well said.

Blaming Pelosi’s speech as the reason why it did not pass, or blaming it on Obama and the democrats is pure bull.

You’ll note no one has stated that it was all the republicans fault that this bill did not pass.

[crb]

Obviously, the people in the house who voted against it is the reason it didn't pass.

What is the reason the people in the house voted against it?

McCain made a statement about 30 minutes ago... he said...

"Some have been working to fix the blame, but now is the time to fix the problem, not fix the blame."

or something like that. It was well said, and it was obviously a jibe at Obama, Reid, Pelosi, etc.

The fact is, I, random, Internet user, have been fixing the blame, but I've not really seen many Republicans (other than Ron Paul - and by Republicans I mean elected people currently serving) affix blame. Whereas the Democrats can't open their mouths without saying "failure of bush-mccain policies"

So, we know the bill failed because it didn't get the votes... well duh. But why, pray tell, didn't it get the votes? Could it have been the partisan atmosphere put forth by the finger pointing grandstanding democrats? Maybe.

[Parkbandit]

You’ll note no one has stated that it was all the republicans fault that this bill did not pass.

Maybe that's because doing so would be admitting to a lack of a basic understanding of simple math? Not sure why you've brought it up twice now...

[oldanforgotten]

Obviously, the people in the house who voted against it is the reason it didn't pass.

What is the reason the people in the house voted against it?

McCain made a statement about 30 minutes ago... he said...

"Some have been working to fix the blame, but now is the time to fix the problem, not fix the blame."

or something like that. It was well said, and it was obviously a jibe at Obama, Reid, Pelosi, etc.

The fact is, I, random, Internet user, have been fixing the blame, but I've not really seen many Republicans (other than Ron Paul - and by Republicans I mean elected people currently serving) affix blame. Whereas the Democrats can't open their mouths without saying "failure of bush-mccain policies"

So, we know the bill failed because it didn't get the votes... well duh. But why, pray tell, didn't it get the votes? Could it have been the partisan atmosphere put forth by the finger pointing grandstanding democrats? Maybe.


Both sides have done their share of grandstanding. That one side has done perhaps more than the other is irrelevant, the House republicans are in less of a position to play the blame game because many of them voted for measures that enabled the bad loans to happen en masse with no accountability, and they can be called out on it.

The only thing you've proven in this thread is that you don't even understand the bill and why its unpopular on BOTH sides in the first place.

McCain has done more work regarding the bill than Obama has, by directly getting himself involved. For better or worse, kudos to him for actually doing something.

House Republicans who were not part of the meetings to re-write concessions into the bill should go fuck themselves and get the their lazy asses the hell out of Washington

Pelosi should die in a fire for attempting to make the matter political, especially given how little actual work she did on the bill.

Any member of either party who changed their vote based on Pelosi or McCain's grandstanding is a weak minded retard.

Any republican/democrat that attempts to blame Pelosi's speech for torpedoing the bill is just as stupid as she is and her equal in grandstanding.

[Back]

Maybe that's because doing so would be admitting to a lack of a basic understanding of simple math? Not sure why you've brought it up twice now...

To point out that basic math is truer than rhetoric.

[TheRoseLady]

So, we know the bill failed because it didn't get the votes... well duh. But why, pray tell, didn't it get the votes? Could it have been the partisan atmosphere put forth by the finger pointing grandstanding democrats? Maybe.

It's almost impossible to take anything you say seriously.

This is much better reading:

McCain takes credit for bill before it loses.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/14088.html

[Back]

Pelosi should die in a fire for attempting to make the matter political, especially given how little actual work she did on the bill.

I agree with you on everything except this point. In other parts of your post you actually agree with her.

You’ll note she voted for this bill.

[Keller]

Could it have been the partisan atmosphere put forth by the finger pointing grandstanding democrats? Maybe.

Again, you don't want to run with this argument. It makes the GOP look like petty little bitches who put their egos above America.

But hey -- keep it up. I'd like to see Obama's lead stretch to 10, 12, hell, 20 pts before November.

[Keller]

PS: Tamral vs. crb, this is gonna be fun!

[TheRoseLady]

PS: Tamral vs. crb, this is gonna be fun!

Wait, OldandForgotten is Tamral?

[Keller]

Wait, OldandForgotten is Tamral?

He has neither confirmed nor denied it, but it's been stated on multiple occasions so I assume he'd deny it if he weren't.

[Stretch]

I might be oversimplifying things, but I would think that with Wachovia and WaMu both more or less taken care of, a large part of the urgency to get a rescue plan underway is gone.

Who cares if some regional banks go under. The market needs to be cleansed every now and then.

[crb]

Again, you don't want to run with this argument. It makes the GOP look like petty little bitches who put their egos above America.

But hey -- keep it up. I'd like to see Obama's lead stretch to 10, 12, hell, 20 pts before November.
No more or less petty than the democrats who can't put the partisan blame game aside for 30 minutes to vote on a bill.

Overall, Washington is pretty damn petty. There are few politicians who avoid getting drawn up in partisanship - one of whom is John McCain. Time and again he votes his conscience, not voting for his party, or what he thinks will help him with an election, but for his country.

But ya... Washington is pretty petty.

[crb]

It's almost impossible to take anything you say seriously.

This is much better reading:

McCain takes credit for bill before it loses.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/14088.html
Obama takes credit for bill that passed 11 years before he entered the Senate. He also took credit for the compromise on the bill (before it failed) yesterday in a speech in Detroit.

Pot, Kettle.

[Valthissa]

I think it did not pass for the most straightforward of reasons:

The voters told their representatives that they were opposed to the bailout.

C/Valth

[Tsa`ah]

So right before the speech she gave a rantingly partisan speech... then the vote failed... hmm... thanks for the political grandstanding Nance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey3ZlsmIkz4

I also find the third person referring to oneself at the beginning humorous.

Is this also where you belly up to the bar and take a big old swig of whatever came out of your ass about this entire thing being partisan ... or did you not know that 95 dems in the house voted against it?

For all you know, this could have been intentional on the part of Pelosi .... and thank god, if there is one, that this cluster fuck piece of shit legislation fell flat ... oh wait ... isn't it YOU that should be saying it? You are after all ... a LIBERTARIAN!

[Parkbandit]

For all you know, this could have been intentional on the part of Pelosi .... and thank god, if there is one, that this cluster fuck piece of shit legislation fell flat ... oh wait ... isn't it YOU that should be saying it? You are after all ... a LIBERTARIAN!


You are an idiot. This wasn't some plan by Pelosi to get the bill shot down. It was a stupid moment by someone who's had plenty of stupid moments. She should resign in shame from the Speaker position.

[Gan]

I think it did not pass for the most straightforward of reasons:

The voters told their representatives that they were opposed to the bailout.

C/Valth

:)

[Tsa`ah]

You are an idiot. This wasn't some plan by Pelosi to get the bill shot down. It was a stupid moment by someone who's had plenty of stupid moments. She should resign in shame from the Speaker position.

I'm the idiot? I didn't say it was a plan. I said "for all you know".

[Gan]

I'm the idiot? I didn't say it was a plan. I said "for all you know".

Still does not negate the fact that it was a pretty fucking stupid statement.

[Tsa`ah]

Considering the result ... I think it was pretty damned brilliant.

[Gan]

Considering the result ... I think it was pretty damned brilliant.

I didnt mean (was not referring to) Pelosi's speech.

[Tsa`ah]

So then you're not for a free market then?

[Gan]

It means I thought your statement was pretty fucking stupid.

[Tsa`ah]

Well at least it's just my statements, a great deal less than I can say for you.

You didn't answer the question though.

[Gan]

When you can post a question thats not so obviously stupid, I"ll answer it. Maybe.

[Tsa`ah]

The question wasn't stupid. By your own statements, you feel my satisfaction that the legislation failed is "stupid" ... rather the statement of my satisfaction.

This indicates to me that, despite your claims, you don't believe in a free market.

Are you incapable of answering the question posed? Or maybe it was too complex ... though I fail to see how it can be posed in a more simplistic manner.

[Keller]

This thread reminds me of the first grade. It was Mrs. Abernathy's class. We'd all be taken to the restroom, but Mrs. Abernathy was absent from the boy's room. We'd take this opportunity to see who could backpeddle furthest from the urinal and still have their stream hit the basin.

I've got some advice for you two: remember to let it arc.

[Gan]

The question wasn't stupid.
Yes, indeed it was stupid. Pretty fucking stupid to be exact.

By your own statements, you feel my satisfaction that the legislation failed is "stupid" ... rather the statement of my satisfaction. All that you have to go by is my statement that I thought your statement was pretty-fucking-stupid. Your armchair diagnosis of my statement is about as full of hot air as you are.


This indicates to me that, despite your claims, you don't believe in a free market. What I believe in is irrelevant to this specific discussion other than the fact that I found your statement pretty-fucking-stuipd.


Are you incapable of answering the question posed? Or maybe it was too complex ... though I fail to see how it can be posed in a more simplistic manner. I understand your frustration. You're frustrated that I wont answer your question, that I wont give you the satisfaction of complying with your request. It must suck that your little man syndrome can not impose its will here on the internetz. In fact, after reading this post, you actually might have to step away from your keyboard and go beat a housekeeper or something to reesert your manliness. As for simplicity, there's definate beauty in simplicity. Hence why you should take my post without all of your interpretation. Take it simply for what I've said. In other words...

This shortbus statement (below) is what I"m calling pretty fucking stupid. This one right down there. Notice I've not said I'm in agreement with your shallow internet intellectualism or in disagreement. I'm merely calling your statement pretty-fucking-stupid. And I'm calling the subsequent argument of semantics between you and PB pretty-fucking-stupid.



For all you know, this could have been intentional on the part of Pelosi ....

http://nymeria87.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/facepalm1.jpg

Big picture added to assist in your comprehension.

[Tsa`ah]

You're dancing around imaginary points (I understand this is an ego thing on your part) ... and still haven't answered the question.

[Conlin]

Think about this.

A group of 36 Dems helped to come up with this bill. Of those 36, 12 of them voted no. Yes a full 1/3 of the Dems that helped to write it voted against it.

What does that tell you about the bill?

As far as Pelosi is concerned. I feel there has never been a worse Speaker in our history.

I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I vote for who I think will do the best job. During the last four elections I voted a split ticket.

[Gan]

You're dancing around imaginary points (I understand this is an ego thing on your part) ... and still haven't answered the question.

Correct, I still have not answered YOUR question. See my last post to understand why.

[Tsa`ah]

Correct, I still have not answered YOUR question. See my last post to understand why.

Your imaginary, ego based, dancing points? I expect nothing less from a guy who can't debate ... rather just posts articles in leu of actual intelligence.

[Gan]

Your imaginary, ego based, dancing points? I expect nothing less from a guy who can't debate ... rather just posts articles in leu of actual intelligence.

Its driving you crazy isnt it?

[Tsa`ah]

Not in the least. Perhaps it's time you introduced that ego to a pin.

[Gan]

Not in the least. Perhaps it's time you introduced that ego to a pin.

Read:
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll102/learningtewfly/COMEDY.gif

[Tsa`ah]

LOL!

I'll let you feed your ego ... it's very funny. Only you and PB would think I place any importance on your posts.

Simple reality ... we're in Rosh and I've got challah and brisket in the ovens. As a symbol of generosity, I'll simply allow your self important delusions of grandeur.

[Gan]

LOL!

I'll let you feed your ego ... it's very funny. Only you and PB would think I place any importance on your posts.
And yet you still respond. If my posts were not very important to you, then you would not keep responding.


Simple reality ... we're in Rosh and I've got challah and brisket in the ovens. As a symbol of generosity, I'll simply allow your self important delusions of grandeur.
Whatever you say shortstack.

PS.
I'm already on record for the answer to the question you're asking. Instead of spending all of your time on google, you might try running a search on the PC. I'll even give you a tip. Search for the word 'moderation'. One of the threads that you'll find goes into great detail with my thoughts on the topic of markets, regulation, and... moderation.

Mazal tov.

[TheRoseLady]

LOL!

Simple reality ... we're in Rosh and I've got challah and brisket in the ovens. As a symbol of generosity, I'll simply allow your self important delusions of grandeur.

hmm brisket. Yum!

[TheEschaton]

As far as Pelosi is concerned. I feel there has never been a worse Speaker in our history.

Newt Gingrinch. He single handedly wasted millions of the taxpayer's money on trying to find a scandal to bring down the President, and only managed to find out that he lied about getting a blowjob.

-TheE-

[Tsa`ah]

And yet you still respond. If my posts were not very important to you, then you would not keep responding.

Whatever you say shortstack.

Sing that tune when you're in a last word contest with Dan next time. It's really a laughable, yet sad, argument.


PS.
I'm already on record for the answer to the question you're asking. Instead of spending all of your time on google, you might try running a search on the PC. I'll even give you a tip. Search for the word 'moderation'. One of the threads that you'll find goes into great detail with my thoughts on the topic of markets, regulation, and... moderation.

And even more LOL ... The lady doth protest too much, methinks.


Mazal tov.

L'shanah tovah tikatevu

[CrystalTears]

OMFG with getting the last word in bullshit around here.

[Daniel]

OMFG with getting the last word in bullshit around here.

Last!

[CrystalTears]

NO U!

[Tsa`ah]

OMFG with getting the last word in bullshit around here.

Where was that yesteday?

... Last

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

NO U!

Getting 4,000 last words in political threads on the PC gives you the secret code needed to win Gemstone.

[wood1559]

u can winz gemstone?