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Trouble
08-20-2008, 09:47 AM
OK I'm way out of my element in starting a political thread, but doesn't this seem like a stupid thing to do right now with Russia already fired up and occupying a soverign nation? Does the US really want another front or five?

I know it's totally stupid of Russia to be worried about a purely defensive system, so in that respect I know it's an over-reaction. But do we really need to antagonize them right now?


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Rice signs missile defense deal with Poland

By VANESSA GERA and MONIKA SCISLOWSKA, Associated Press Writers
1 hour, 48 minutes ago

WARSAW, Poland - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her Polish counterpart signed a deal Wednesday to build a U.S. missile defense base in Poland, an agreement that prompted an infuriated Russia to warn of a possible attack against the former Soviet satellite.

The deal to install 10 U.S. interceptor missiles just 115 miles from Russia's westernmost frontier also has strained relations between Moscow and the West, ties that already troubled by Russia's invasion of its former Soviet neighbor, U.S. ally Georgia, earlier this month.

Rice and Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski signed the deal Wednesday morning.

"It is an agreement which will help us to respond to the threats of the 21st century," she said afterward.

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said the agreement came after tough but friendly negotiations.

"We have achieved our main goals, which means that our country and the United States will be more secure," he said.

After Warsaw and Washington announced the agreement on the deal last week, top Russian Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn warned that Poland is risking attack, and possibly a nuclear one, by deploying the American missile defense system, Russia's Interfax news agency reported.

Poles have been shaken by the threats, but NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop dismissed them Tuesday as "pathetic rhetoric."

"It is unhelpful and it leads nowhere," he told reporters at a NATO meeting in Brussels, Belgium.

Many Poles consider the agreement a form of protection at a time when Russia's invasion of Georgia has generated alarm throughout Eastern Europe. Poland is a member of the European Union and NATO, and the deal is expected to deepen its military partnership with Washington.

Polish President Lech Kaczynski also expressed "great satisfaction" at the outcome of the long months of negotiations.

Poland and the United States spent a year and a half negotiating, and talks recently had snagged on Poland's demands that the U.S. bolster Polish security with Patriot missiles in exchange for hosting the missile defense base.

Washington agreed to do so last week, as Poland invoked the Georgia conflict to strengthen its case.

The Patriots are meant to protect Poland from short-range missiles from neighbors — such as Russia.

The U.S. already has reached an agreement with the government in Prague to place the second component of the missile defense shield — a radar tracking system — in the Czech Republic, Poland's southwestern neighbor and another formerly communist country.

Approval is still needed the Czech and Polish parliaments.

No date has been set for the Polish parliament to consider the agreement, but it should face no difficulties in Warsaw, where it enjoys the support of the largest opposition party as well as the government.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080820/ap_on_re_eu/poland_us_missile_defense;_ylt=AnGVRbEeyDeL3LRxSqR 8oCYDW7oF

NocturnalRob
08-20-2008, 09:56 AM
well, I'm sure Poland took one look at what's going on in South Ossetia and said "Mmm...yes, we'd LOVE to have you set up a base here. Thanks!"

Daniel
08-20-2008, 10:04 AM
We have been trying to do this for a long time now. The issue of contention was that Poland wanted a mutual security pact with the US, which we weren't prepared to give them. Apparently we are now.

Nieninque
08-20-2008, 10:06 AM
Fucking warmongers.

NocturnalRob
08-20-2008, 10:11 AM
The issue of contention was that Poland wanted a mutual security pact with the US, which we weren't prepared to give them. Apparently we are now.

didn't know that. any reason for the 180?

Daniel
08-20-2008, 10:13 AM
Georgia

Gan
08-20-2008, 10:25 AM
Thanks to the invasion of Georgia - now Ukraine is stepping up like Poland.



Ukraine to join in US-led missile shield in Europe

Published: Saturday 16 August 2008 12:20 UTC
Last updated: Saturday 16 August 2008 12:23 UTC

Ukraine has agreed to take part in a missile defence system designed by the United States to protect Western countries. The government in Kiev defended its decision for military co-operation with the West, saying Russia cancelled a bilateral treaty with Ukraine earlier this year.

A few days ago, Poland and the United States reached agreement on the siting of missiles on Polish territory. These, together with radar installations in the Czech republic, make up the missile shield. Russia is fiercely opposed to the defence system and has threatened retaliatory measures.

The Ukrainian offer to co-operate with the US on the shield comes as the situation surrounding Russia's military operations in Georgia is increasingly tense. Ukraine's pro-Western President Viktor Yushchenko has strongly criticised Russia and is threatening to impose restrictions on Russian navy vessels' use of the port of Sebastopol in Ukraine.
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/5921543/Ukraine-to-join-in-USled-missile-shield-in-Europe

**
To add to this, I heard on NPR this morning a description of the actuall anti-missle ordinance that is to be used. Its non-nuclear and non explosive. The missle houses a projectile that is designed to strike the incoming warhead thus neutralizing it.

So the missle shield is just a fancy set of rocket propelled ballistas, with pinpoint accuracy.

Parkbandit
08-20-2008, 11:00 AM
Fucking warmongers.

I know. The Poles should just stop thinking people would ever invade their country. It's not like it's ever happened before.

Poland is just paranoid.

Latrinsorm
08-20-2008, 11:15 AM
I COME FROM UKRAINE! YOU NOT SAY UKRAINE WEAK!

Sean of the Thread
08-20-2008, 11:17 AM
Let's take a left turn at a red light now and start talking about a draft. :smile:

Parkbandit
08-20-2008, 11:18 AM
Let's take a left turn at a red light now and start talking about a draft. :smile:

First you need to sign up to the Fantasy Football league dumbass.. THEN we can start talking about the draft.

Sean of the Thread
08-20-2008, 11:28 AM
First you need to sign up to the Fantasy Football league dumbass.. THEN we can start talking about the draft.

Thought you had my email my bad.

pm sent

Nieninque
08-20-2008, 11:37 AM
I know. The Poles should just stop thinking people would ever invade their country. It's not like it's ever happened before.

Poland is just paranoid.

It wasn't a statement at any one particular country, moreso all of them.
It's a sorry state of affairs...all must bear responsibility.

crb
08-20-2008, 11:38 AM
I read the other day that when the USSR existed the Ukraine held Russia's early warning missile detection system. They've continued to let Russia use it since the breakup but are now considering letting us have it instead, which I find ironic and amusing. Great move Russia, you've scared your neighbors so much they're giving key parts of your old defense technology to your adversary (I won't say enemy, not yet).

So we'll have a missile detection system right on Russia's border.

Kembal
08-20-2008, 04:56 PM
I read the other day that when the USSR existed the Ukraine held Russia's early warning missile detection system. They've continued to let Russia use it since the breakup but are now considering letting us have it instead, which I find ironic and amusing. Great move Russia, you've scared your neighbors so much they're giving key parts of your old defense technology to your adversary (I won't say enemy, not yet).

So we'll have a missile detection system right on Russia's border.

We already had one, in Finland.

Russia apparently told Norway that they're cutting off military ties with NATO. I'd say things are getting interesting, in that not-so-good way.

Warriorbird
08-20-2008, 05:13 PM
I've got no problem with the idea of building either base. Is it impossible to put this stuff in our pre-existing Western European bases though?

Stanley Burrell
08-20-2008, 05:26 PM
I know. The Poles should just stop thinking people would ever invade their country. It's not like it's ever happened before.

Poland is just paranoid.

Poland paved its roads for the panzerkamfwagens. Poland invaded itself before Nazi Germany rolled in. Fucking murderous Gestapo pollack anti-Semitic fuckfaces, in Poland, opened the floodgates.

Ignot
08-20-2008, 07:41 PM
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219218598194&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Stanley Burrell
08-20-2008, 10:28 PM
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219218598194&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Wow, if that's actually true, then I'm sure Israel knows enough about it. Like, when it will need to be surgically removed from the Earth's surface with airstrikes.

Dunno why Russia is seriously butthurt over the missile shield. All they need is a flurry of thermonukes and bitch, you can forget it.

I was sort of barely understanding their (Russia's) response to what was nothing more than a terror attack on its people, with an absolutely ridiculous counterattack. This shit makes Beirut II look like fair reciprocation, no doubt. However, siding yourself with the white Arabs in Damascus, via military technology, is about the most mentally handicapped thing any superpower can do.

Back
08-20-2008, 11:39 PM
It wasn't a statement at any one particular country, moreso all of them.
It's a sorry state of affairs...all must bear responsibility.

I concur.

All must, but some more than others do instigate.