Obama Prepares to Flip on Iraq

[crb]

I so called this weeks ago to my wife, when he said he'd go to Iraq (finally). There is no way he'd go to iraq and stand in the middle of a bunch of troops and give a negative speech about failure. There is no way he could go and see the success and lie about it while there. So the only option would be for him to go and do no speeches and nothing televised while there, and, as a typical politician, Obama would never go through all the trouble of going if he couldn't get a speech or a photo op out of it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080703/ap_on_el_pr/obama_iraq_6

I can see it now, this fall, the debates will be awkward. Obama will either have to yell really loud about he had the luxury of not being part of the Federal Government when we went to war and so did not have to make the decision on it, but of course if he had he would have voted against it. Talking about an opinion you had 5 years ago isn't the strongest move for a politician like a now overweight former jock remembering his high school years "Remember the time I caught that pass dude? That was sweet... ya... all down hill from there."

OR... he'll have the equally uncomfortable position of agreeing with John McCain on the disposition of troop deployments going forward, agreeing that we can win the war. Of course he'll be without the luxury McCain has, that of being able to say he advocated for and supported the surge to the point of almost derailing his campaign and him saying he'd rather lose a political race than lose a war (great line), which plays into McCain's whole "country before party" slogan nicely.

In either case, the MoveOn.org types are going to seethe, and that'll make it all worth it.

[Warriorbird]

Uh. Alternately he could give an uplifting speech about coming home. Even if you don't see the issues with Iraq... they're there.

[CrystalTears]

Uh. Alternately he could give an uplifting speech about coming home. Even if you don't see the issues with Iraq... they're there.
It pains me when I agree with you, you realize. :)

[crb]

Uh. Alternately he could give an uplifting speech about coming home. Even if you don't see the issues with Iraq... they're there.
Iraq's a fucked up situation. But what'd be more fucked up, and more costly, and more deadly, to the world and to the US in the long run would be an Iraq that is completely unstable, and in a civil war that destablizes the region.

[CrystalTears]

Iraq's a fucked up situation. But what'd be more fucked up, and more costly, and more deadly, to the world and to the US in the long run would be an Iraq that is completely unstable, and in a civil war that destablizes the region.
And if that's the case, wouldn't you want him to reconsider his idea and extend the time it takes to bring them back?

[crb]

Oh absolutely, it is another good flip flop for Obama (like the one on trade, or on guns).

Its just funny and predictable is all.

We'll see if he flips on drilling. I find that one a little less likely, but you never know, gas is above $4 a gallon and 60% of Americans want to drill, if it gets above $5 and 75% of Americans want to drill...

[CrystalTears]

With his low experience, it would be wise to change his stance on certain issues. I never expected him to be above any other politician by never flip-flopping on issues. Anyone who would be shocked by it was really kidding themselves.

[Warriorbird]

Doesn't seem like much of a flip flop if he extends the time before withdrawal. It may actually pick him up some support with independents. Obama as a speaker can rise to just about any occasion. I wouldn't consider it wise to second guess him when he'll be making a planned speech. It is the unplanned stuff that he can flub up on.

[Sean of the Thread]

Does that include the 58 perm bases being built in Iraq?

[Ashliana]

Delusional.

[Parkbandit]

He's pandering. The wacko libs are going to vote for him no matter what.. so him breaking a promise to them means squat. He has been trying to move more towards the center since winning the nomination.. this is just another example.

[Ashliana]

He's pandering. The wacko libs are going to vote for him no matter what.. so him breaking a promise to them means squat. He has been trying to move more towards the center since winning the nomination.. this is just another example.

Right! Because actually considering an option regarding the Iraq war that won't end in disaster is flip-flopping, whereas reconsidering one's opinion on drilling off the coast of Florida is definitely not flip-flopping like McCain.

[Ashliana]

Oh, not to mention his flip-flopping on the Bush tax cuts, which he long and vocally opposed, and his calling Roberts and Alito perfect justices whom he'd seek to duplicate on the court.

[Valthissa]

I'm shocked to discover that the latest narcissist that wants to be president will say whatever he thinks it takes to get elected. McCain is no different in this respect.

C/Valth

[Warriorbird]

Politicians = politicians.

[Keller]

Right! Because actually considering an option regarding the Iraq war that won't end in disaster is flip-flopping, whereas reconsidering one's opinion on drilling off the coast of Florida is definitely not flip-flopping like McCain.

What did I tell you about arguing w/ trolls?

[Ashliana]

What did I tell you about arguing w/ trolls?

True. But now he's going to whine, "but I never said I supported McCain, either!" despite him being the only other viable choice at this point in the game.

[Parkbandit]

Keller calling someone else a troll is hilarious. He's the epitome of the word.

Obviously he's still hurt and just can't get past it. Poor little bastard.

And sorry Ashliana.. I don't give two shits about McCain. I'm actually leaning towards voting for Obama at this point.. let him completely fuck up this country ala Jimmy Carter.. then hope that a real conservative can once again rise up to clean the mess.

[Warriorbird]

Rush Limbaugh totally needs to get with you on that movement.

[Ashliana]

And on cue, Parkbandit arrives to say precisely what I thought he'd say.


.. let him completely fuck up this country ala Jimmy Carter.. then hope that a real conservative can once again rise up to clean the mess.

Really. I bet, sucking on Rush all day, you're going to say "like Reagan," ignoring the fact that he was about as far from any kind of fiscal conservative one could possibly be. His answer to foreign policy? Spend, spend, spend!

But, come on. I'll hear what you have to say.

[Parkbandit]

I think I'll take Clove's advice:


So there's no point me attempting to have a civil argument with you, because you'll respond with hostility because you don't like how another thread or another argument went. Physician, heal thyself.

It's sad that you really have no idea how much of a hypocrite you are Ash.. but then again, it's a common trait among your types.

[Ashliana]

You said you wanted entertainment. I'm flaming you. Are you really that dense.. that you can't see that?

[Keller]

It's sad that you really have no idea how much of a hypocrite you are Ash..

Quoted for hilarity.

[Warriorbird]

You're right, Keller. He's never ever used that one before!

[Ashliana]

This thread quickly took a wrong turn and is now...

This thread quickly took a wrong turn and is now headed to Grouphugville.

This is my stop.. let me off. I think I'm going to puke.


PS - This fucking cease in hostilities sucks.. I'm not being entertained today IN THE FUCKING LEAST.

I'm giving you what you want. Did you.. FLIP FLOP!?!?!

Couldn't resist.

[Keller]

You're right, Keller. He's never ever used that one before!

It's the fact that HE doesn't realize how hypocritical he is and then presumes to tell others that they are hypocrites. He's a joke, but at least he's a funny one.

[Clove]

And on cue, Parkbandit arrives to say precisely what I thought he'd say.Well don't pat yourself on the back for your prescience too hard. Any number of regular posters in the PC politics folder would have made the same prediction- since PB has often posted that very sentiment. His feelings on McCain and Obama aren't exactly secret here.

[Parkbandit]

You said you wanted entertainment. I'm flaming you. Are you really that dense.. that you can't see that?


You are a typical liberal hypocrite. Are you really that dense... that you can't see that?

[Ashliana]

You are a typical liberal hypocrite. Are you really that dense... that you can't see that?

As long as you admit you've flipflopped. =)

[Parkbandit]

What did I tell you about arguing w/ trolls?

So far, I count 3 posts by Keller in this topic. Let's review the definition of a troll (Internet)

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

If someone would like to quote the other 2 posts by him.. perhaps those are miraculously on topic.. but I'm pretty sure they aren't.

Seriously trollboy.. let it go. Let it all out. You are acting like a jilted bride left on the alter.. nothing to offer but bitterness and anger.

Get over it already. You are looking more pathetic than ever.. and only you can't see it.

And in case you didn't realize it.. calling someone a troll for something you are doing the exact definition of makes you a hypocrite of epic proportions.

[Keller]

You are a typical liberal hypocrite. Are you really that dense... that you can't see that?

I imagine, while saying this, you're on your back stomping your feet and flailing your arms.

I think you can throw a better temper tantrum than this. It's sort of disappointing. Where are the jpegs?

[Parkbandit]

As long as you admit you've flipflopped. =)

As soon as you admit you are a hypocrite.

[Keller]

So far, I count 3 posts by Keller in this topic. Let's review the definition of a troll (Internet)

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

If someone would like to quote the other 2 posts by him.. perhaps those are miraculously on topic.. but I'm pretty sure they aren't.

Seriously trollboy.. let it go. Let it all out. You are acting like a jilted bride left on the alter.. nothing to offer but bitterness and anger.

Get over it already. You are looking more pathetic than ever.. and only you can't see it.

And in case you didn't realize it.. calling someone a troll for something you are doing the exact definition of makes you a hypocrite of epic proportions.

Hey bright guy -- if you've got me on ignore, who am I trolling?

[Parkbandit]

Oh, 4 posts now. How many are actually ON TOPIC.. or are they rather all targetting me.. making Keller a fucking hypocritical troll?

[Parkbandit]

FIVE posts now! Please tell me at least ONE post is on topic. ONE? Come on Keller.. maybe make a crack about my kids or wife? Come on.. I know how angry you must be. Let it all out dicksplash!

[Keller]

FIVE posts now! Please tell me at least ONE post is on topic. ONE? Come on Keller.. maybe make a crack about my kids or wife? Come on.. I know how angry you must be. Let it all out dicksplash!

This is the sort of temper tantrum I was hoping for. I never thought someone could ignore another poster and yet fail so bad at ignoring them.

Oh man, you're the best. Thanks for the laughs.

[Parkbandit]

And there's 6. 6 posts.. can someone actually tell me how many have to do with Obama.. or fuck.. I'll even give the fucking piece of shit trollboy a break.. tell me how many have to do with ANYTHING having to do with politics.

[Warriorbird]

You were totally right, Keller.

:rofl:

[Keller]

And there's 6. 6 posts.. can someone actually tell me how many have to do with Obama.. or fuck.. I'll even give the fucking piece of shit trollboy a break.. tell me how many have to do with ANYTHING having to do with politics.

Do we need to send you to your room with no dinner? Maybe a few minutes in the time-out corner?

[Parkbandit]

Christ.. just when I thought only Backlash could compete with Ash for hypocrite of the day.. BOOM, Keller comes out of nowhere and completely blows her out of the water.

Well done Keller. At least you are good at being a hypocritical troll. Sucks that in 50 years, you'll look back at this time and know this was the only thing you actually did well.

[Warriorbird]

Naughty chair, Keller. Totally naughty chair.

I find this very instructive in a political sense. There's a certain element of reach in "Obama reversed himself on Iraq" to "Maybe we ought to wait 4-6 more months." The whole thing is indicative of a certain personality type. The scary thing is they have a 50 50 shot at winning the next election still.

Moments like this are entertaining though. I wonder if Obama will be able to get McCain to break down in the course of the run.

[Snapp]

How can you guys argue about the same shit everyday and fling the same insults in thread after thread and not get tired of it?

[Ashliana]

Christ.. just when I thought only Backlash could compete with Ash for hypocrite of the day.. BOOM, Keller comes out of nowhere and completely blows her out of the water.

Well done Keller. At least you are good at being a hypocritical troll. Sucks that in 50 years, you'll look back at this time and know this was the only thing you actually did well.

How many more times can you bleat "hypocrite!"? Almost as bad as Jay Sherman. IT STINKS!

[Warriorbird]

I'll tell you how, Snapp.

It's a miracle!

http://www.robertaonthearts.com/fiddler0304.jpeg

http://www.impawards.com/2004/posters/miracle.jpg

http://cdn.overstock.com/images/products/L10386054.jpg

[Ashliana]

Update on the story: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/04/us/politics/04policy.html

[Parkbandit]

How many more times can you bleat "hypocrite!"? Almost as bad as Jay Sherman. IT STINKS!

How many more times can you demonstrate what a hypocrite is? Here's the thing... stop illustrating the definition on a daily basis, and the 'bleating' will go away.


And who wants to make a bet now.. that if Obama wins in November, the troops aren't out of there in 16 months.

Is there any takers out there? Is there anyone that actually believes what this guy says?

[Ashliana]

How many more times can you demonstrate what a hypocrite is? Here's the thing... stop illustrating the definition on a daily basis, and the 'bleating' will go away.


And who wants to make a bet now.. that if Obama wins in November, the troops aren't out of there in 16 months.

Is there any takers out there? Is there anyone that actually believes what this guy says?

See, you see hypocrites everywhere. How many separate people have you called one today? Hmm?

[Clove]

How can you guys argue about the same shit everyday and fling the same insults in thread after thread and not get tired of it?I blame lack of exercise.