Dunkin' Donuts yanks Rachael Ray ad

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Dunkin' Donuts yanks Rachael Ray ad (http://www.boston.com/ae/celebrity/articles/2008/05/27/dunkin_donuts_yanks_rachael_ray_ad/?p1=email_to_a_friend)


Does Dunkin’ Donuts really think its customers could mistake Rachael Ray for a terrorist sympathizer? The Canton-based company has abruptly canceled an ad in which the domestic diva wears a scarf that looks like a keffiyeh, a traditional headdress worn by Arab men.

Some observers, including ultra-conservative Fox News commentator Michelle Malkin, were so incensed by the ad that there was even talk of a Dunkin’ Donuts boycott.

‘‘The keffiyeh, for the clueless, is the traditional scarf of Arab men that has come to symbolize murderous Palestinian jihad,’’ Malkin yowls in her syndicated column.

‘‘Popularized by Yasser Arafat and a regular adornment of Muslim terrorists appearing in beheading and hostage-taking videos, the apparel has been mainstreamed by both ignorant and not-so-ignorant fashion designers, celebrities, and left-wing icons.’’

The company at first pooh-poohed the complaints, claiming the black-and-white wrap was not a keffiyeh. But the right-wing drumbeat on the blogosphere continued and by yesterday, Dunkin’ Donuts decided it’d be easier just to yank the ad.

Said the suits in a statement: ‘‘In a recent online ad, Rachael Ray is wearing a black-and-white silk scarf with a paisley design. It was selected by her stylist for the advertising shoot. Absolutely no symbolism was intended. However, given the possibility of misperception, we are no longer using the commercial.’’

(In case you’re wondering, the stylist who selected the offending scarf was not Gretta Enterprises boss Gretchen Monahan, who appears on Ray’s TV show as a style consultant.)

For her part, Malkin was pleased with Dunkin’s response: ‘‘It’s refreshing to see an American company show sensitivity to the concerns of Americans opposed to Islamic jihad and its apologists.’’

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/23768/original.jpg

------------------------------------------

These days its ok to wear a hammer and sickle shirt, or a Cuban soccer team jersey. Che Guevara shirts are stylish too.

[Flurbins]

Funny, Rachael Ray looks neither like a man, nor an Arab. It's not even on her head.

[thefarmer]

I saw that same scarf on my friend's grandmother.

Maybe she's a terrorist too?

[landy]

Dude, forget the fucking scarf... notice she isn't wearing a FLAG PIN!!!

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Holy fucking ridiculous.

[Tisket]

I tried to find the actual ad but had little luck. Probably yanked before airing. But if anyone else found it please post link. Thanks.

Here is the columnist who started this and her take on the whole thing:

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/28/the-keffiyeh-kerfuffle/

Found this most interesting:


Ray hawked Urban Outfitters scarves on her website before appearing in the Dunkin Donuts ad. If she (or whichever stylist is dressing her) wasn’t aware of the jihad scarf controversy before she posed for the Dunkin campaign, she should have been. Urban Outfitters initially pulled the keffiyeh merchandise and apologized when Jewish customers protested, but reintroduced them with different names and colors in several global markets. This is the same company that marketed a bigotry-laced “Everyone loves a Jewish girl t-shirt” stamped with dollar signs and shopping bags. Most recently, the company halted sales of a violence-promoting t-shirt last week depicting a young Palestinian boy in a keffiyeh carrying an AK-47 assault rifle, over the word “Victimized.” The t-shirt also featured the Palestinian flag, a map of the Palestinian territories and a small white dove.

The resemblance is a little more than passing in my opinion. Do a google image search of "keffiyeh". Personally, I think DD did the right thing.

[thefarmer]

The resemblance is a little more than passing in my opinion. Do a google image search of "keffiyeh". Personally, I think DD did the right thing.

It's a white scarf-like item with black decorations worn around her neck.

Sorry, if that's what it takes to remind people of typical 'terrorist garb' then half of the grannies in the US are wearing terrorist paraphernalia. .

[Sean of the Thread]

I thought they canceled it because she's a fat ass.

[Ilvane]

I think Michelle Malkin is an idiot.

Yes, Rachel Ray was wearing terrorist garb! Eek! Run away!

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/idontcare_059/arafat.jpg

[Daniel]

Kuffeiyah literally means "Scarf" in Arabic and has been a common item of clothing for quite some time in the Arab world.

To suggest that it is a symbol of terrorism is racist as fuck.

To save Mabus the time: Obviously I'm anti semitic.

[Parkbandit]

To save Mabus the time: Obviously I'm anti semitic.

Impossible.. since you have a tattoo of the Star of David. No way in hell.

[Back]

McCarthyism 2.0.0.8

[Daniel]

Impossible.. since you have a tattoo of the Star of David. No way in hell.

True Statement.

[Stanley Burrell]

Every three-and-a-half seconds, an overweight American will die from eating 5000 calorie meals from DD.

Then I'd photoshop a big red crosshair over a donut, with the slogan, "Silent Threat."

But. Lysander likes it in the butt. It is too early for this.

[Celephais]

It's gingeriffic.

[fallenSaint]

Did I miss her up an coming segment, "30 minute Jihads" ... ?

[Celephais]

The "ray" in "Rachael Ray" stands for the space ray gun that's going to attack jesus.

[DeV]

You'd think that actual terrorists would be the ones complaining about this if it were actually terrorist garb. Idiots.

[Martaigne]

Twat the hell?

Aren't scarves worn in some fashion in nearly EVERY PART OF THE WORLD?

[fallenSaint]

Twat the hell?

Aren't scarves worn in some fashion in nearly EVERY PART OF THE WORLD?

Yarly, I want the job of the person who gets to stir this kinda shit up... I mean seriously its got to be fun trying to over exaggerate every damn thing you can.

[AnticorRifling]

I thought they canceled it because she's a fat ass.


I'd still hit it like a box of wine.

[Bobmuhthol]

ok wezas

[Ogreslayer]

It looks like Dunkin Donuts acted responsibly. Whether intentional by the stylist or not, and it appears unintentional, the keffiyeh has been a symbol of solidarity with the Palestinian people since Yasser Arafat or before. It's good customer relations to acknowledge that it was unintentional and remove the ad. They have nothing to gain by taking a stance that they're going to continue to run the ad even if it does inadvertently appear to make a controversial political statement.

"These days its ok to wear a hammer and sickle shirt, or a Cuban soccer team jersey. Che Guevara shirts are stylish too."

Of course it is ok to wear those. Some have found it cool for the last 15 years to wear the Malcolm X hats, too. However, if someone tells me that by wearing a Che shirt he's not making a political statement, he's either ignorant of the implied meaning or insincere. I think it's safe to say Rachel Ray wouldn't be caught doing a commercial with Che paraphernalia.

[Khariz]

I'd still hit it like a box of wine.

I dunno, she's starting to look seriously less hot to me.

[AnticorRifling]

ok wezas


Wezas and I had alot of the same tastes.

[Bobmuhthol]

Hopefully you don't have the same taste in wives, lol.

[TheEschaton]

A) Michelle Malkin is a moron. The bile she spews is ridiculous.

B) The arabic word for "scarf" cannot be simply co-opted to be a "terrorist symbol". The whole Arab world wears these. What, do turban wearing Indians now become terrorists because they're wearing a piece of cloth wrapped around their head? This is like saying baseball hat wearers are all Red Sox supporters, even though only a fraction of them actually wear Red Sox hats.

-TheE-

[ClydeR]

Here is the columnist who started this and her take on the whole thing:

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/28/the-keffiyeh-kerfuffle/

I don't know how Malkin, who is normally very intelligent (but a bit eccentric at times (http://youtube.com/watch?v=tt_YcQlYxyY)), got tricked into attacking Urban Outfitters. Although you could never tell from looking in one of his stores, the founder of Urban Outfitters has been a big contributor to Republican candidates and conservative causes for years. The radical left has been searching for a way to get people to stop shopping at his stores and run him out of business.


The resemblance is a little more than passing in my opinion. Do a google image search of "keffiyeh". Personally, I think DD did the right thing.

Exactly. DD did the right thing. Islamic radicals are, as John McCain has repeatedly warned us (http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/Speeches/872473dd-9ccb-4ab4-9d0d-ec54f0e7a497.htm), the "transcendent challenge of our time." If there's any doubt, it's best to take no chances.

[TheEschaton]

Maybe we should ban people from wearing crosses because of the nutjobs like the KKK who burn them. Yeah, that sounds about right.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Tisket
The resemblance is a little more than passing in my opinion. Do a google image search of "keffiyeh". Personally, I think DD did the right thing.

Are you serious? Assuming this is the AD below.. it just looks like a shitty black and white scarf.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/tijay2k/raybwscarf.jpg

[Celephais]

She looks awful in that picture. I used to think she was hot, but I dunno... lately what I've been seeing has been not only bad looking, but annoying as hell. (although that might make her a better candidate for a hatefuck)

[Ilvane]

She may be annoying, but she certainly isn't fat.

Angela

[Tisket]

Are you serious? Assuming this is the AD below.. it just looks like a shitty black and white scarf.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/tijay2k/raybwscarf.jpg

Of course I'm serious. Here is why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYj8XSKN8RM

[Parkbandit]

Her boobs are as big as her gut.. which gives her body a weird look imo. She either needs to drop that spare tire.. or get some breast enhancements.

[BigWorm]

Of course I'm serious. Here is why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYj8XSKN8RM

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!

[Clove]

She either needs to drop that spare tire.. or get some breast enhancements.Didn't we give you that advice already? :D

[Nieninque]

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!

Was that the sound of Tisket's humour going over your head?

[Tisket]

It's sexy when you put random "U"'s in words.

[Nieninque]

I would say cool...but they are in fact, the opposite of random. They are in the RIGHT FUCKING PLACE!!!11111

Damn Yanks.

[Latrinsorm]

What's a "Malcolm X hat"?

[Khariz]

I dunno, this?

http://www.notablebiographies.com/images/uewb_06_img0420.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

Ohhh, I thought he meant a hat in the style Malcolm X wore. That thing makes a lot more sense though.

[Tisket]

Yeah, Mr. X wore a fedora-type hat sometimes but most of his pictures are bareheaded shots. Well, the one's I've seen anyway.

[CrystalTears]

Fine with me. The less I see her on the TV the better. I can't stand her. I try to watch her cooking shows just for the 30 minute ideas and I want to strangle the little fatty.

That said, people made way too much out of a fucking scarf.

[Arkans]

That still picture of her makes me think she is about to say..

CRIMSON JIHAD IS NOW A NUCLEAR POWER! ALLAHU ACKBAR!

- Arkans

[AnticorRifling]

I want to strangle the little fatty.



Me too.

[Keller]

She may be annoying, but she certainly isn't fat.

Angela


She's not obese, but she is fat.

[Clove]

She's not obese, but she is fat. She's Phat (if you could just get a sock in her mouth). She never shuts up and annoys the hell out of me as a result. I can't get through her cooking shows without wanting to hang myself.

[Keller]

She's Phat (if you could just get a sock in her mouth). She never shuts up and annoys the hell out of me as a result. I can't get through her cooking shows without wanting to hang myself.

It could be a thrice-worn and not washed athletic sock and I promise she would oo and ah over how nice it tasted. She's either (a) a fatty who loves anything she can shovel into her mouth or (b) completely untruthful because she's eatten some nasty looking shit on her shows.

[Mabus]

I can't get through her cooking shows without wanting to hang myself.
That means she has some redeeming value!
;)
And people said "Auschwitz" was a non-story.
:forehead:

[CrystalTears]

And people said "Auschwitz" was a non-story.
:forehead:
This is a non-story too. Hell look who posted it.

[Clove]

And people said "Auschwitz" was a non-story.
:forehead:It is. And so is this. There was no benifit in Obama mistaking Auschwitz for Buchanwald and there's no benifit to watching Rachel cook.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Clove
It is. And so is this. There was no benifit in Obama mistaking Auschwitz for Buchanwald and there's no benifit to watching Rachel cook.

There is however benefit to watching Rachel Leigh Cook. At least she's attractive.

[Mabus]

There is however benefit to watching Rachel Leigh Cook. At least she's attractive.
Didn't her uncle free Treblinka?
;)

[BigWorm]

Didn't her uncle free Treblinka?
;)

Obsessed with Obama much?

[Mabus]

Obsessed with Obama much?
It was a joke, notice the ;) ?

Idiot.

[Keller]

It was a joke, notice the ;) ?

Idiot.

Do you expect people on this forum to believe you have a sense of humor? Honest question.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I am a joke

Fixed.

[Mabus]

Fixed.
If you want to quote me, then quote me. If you wish to misquote me, or make up quotes and attribute them to me, then go suck on the big worm with the rest of losers around here...
...where the hell did this "fixed" tactic of attempting to belittle people through BS quotes come from anyway?

I swear, some of you people need a real life. Turn off the computer. Meet people. Grow up. Take up thumb twiddling, nose picking or knitting, perhaps all three simultaneously.

[Mabus]

Do you expect people on this forum to believe you have a sense of humor? Honest question.
I could give a rat's ass whether they believe it or not, honestly.

A forum based on a community of people that are former players, current players or non-players of a text-based fantasy role-play game is not where I look for people to "believe" me.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

If you want to quote me, then quote me. If you wish to misquote me, or make up quotes and attribute them to me, then go suck on the big worm with the rest of losers around here...
...where the hell did this "fixed" tactic of attempting to belittle people through BS quotes come from anyway?

I swear, some of you people need a real life. Turn off the computer. Meet people. Grow up. Take up thumb twiddling, nose picking or knitting, perhaps all three simultaneously.

:rofl:

[Bobmuhthol]

Nothing is funnier than the people who come here, post like retards, and their defense is that they don't care because the premise of the forum is inferior. Except they post here.

[Clove]

I could give a rat's ass whether they believe it or not, honestly.

A forum based on a community of people that are former players, current players or non-players of a text-based fantasy role-play game is not where I look for people to "believe" me.Got it. You couldn't find anyone you respect who would bother reading anything you wrote.

[CrystalTears]

I could give a rat's ass whether they believe it or not, honestly.

A forum based on a community of people that are former players, current players or non-players of a text-based fantasy role-play game is not where I look for people to "believe" me.
Oh you know you can always get the fuck of out of here. We won't mind.

For someone who doesn't give a shit what we think, you sure make it your mission to be heard and understood.

[Mabus]

Nothing is funnier than the people who come here, post like retards, and their defense is that they don't care because the premise of the forum is inferior. Except they post here.
You are pretty funny, I agree.

Still playing that sorcerer, or moved on to another character?

[Bobmuhthol]

How is that even a valid response?

Edit: I didn't even realize the second part of the post was directed at me. Not only do I not play, I never had a sorcerer above level 3.

[Mabus]

Oh you know you can always get the fuck of out of here. We won't mind.
Then who would you have to love-to-hate on? Poor thing, I couldn't leave you to actually work at work.


For someone who doesn't give a shit what we think, you sure make it your mission to be heard and understood.
I try, but other then a small few posters here most of you seem incapable of understanding anything other then what you already believed to be true (no matter how far fetched your reality actually is).

[Mabus]

Edit: I didn't even realize the second part of the post was directed at me. Not only do I not play, I never had a sorcerer above level 3.
I knew a few of them, one in Ta'Vaalor a looong time ago.

[Bobmuhthol]

I've never been in Ta'Vaalor except for new characters on trial accounts, sorry.

[Parkbandit]

I knew a few of them, one in Ta'Vaalor a looong time ago.


That may have been me.. I had a sorcerer named Bobsucks once.

[Mabus]

That may have been me.. I had a sorcerer named Bobsucks once.

:rofl:
;)

[Tisket]

Who is Mabus?

Seriously, I have no idea.

[Nieninque]

A forum based on a community of people that are former players, current players or non-players of a text-based fantasy role-play game is not where I look for people to "believe" me.

Apparently you put a lot of effort into something you are not looking for...

[CrystalTears]

Then who would you have to love-to-hate on? Poor thing, I couldn't leave you to actually work at work.
Yeah, like I care enough about you to love or hate you, Tsa`ah Jr. I consider you a twat, though.

Are you going to start accusing me of being the forum whore because I don't agree with anyone who doesn't comment on my breasts, or of others of humping your leg? You people need to find new material.

I try, but other then a small few posters here most of you seem incapable of understanding anything I say because I think I know everything when I really don't know anything.
Fixed.

[Parkbandit]

Who is Mabus?

Seriously, I have no idea.

Someone who doesn't see Obama as the 2nd coming of the Lord I guess.

[Clove]

Then who would you have to love-to-hate on? Poor thing, I couldn't leave you to actually work at work.Backlash. And you have no idea how much work she does (some of us don't have to dump the fries every 10 minutes).
I try, but other then a small few posters here most of you seem incapable of understanding anything other then what you already believed to be true (no matter how far fetched your reality actually is).Like the fact that the difference between Auschwitz and Buchenwald is insigificant?

[TheEschaton]

I don't think Obama is the second coming of the Lord, but I'm nowhere as stupid as Mabus.

[Parkbandit]

I don't think Obama is the second coming of the Lord, but I'm nowhere as stupid as Mabus.

That is your opinion. Many would disagree.

How is that story of the young century coming along?

[Latrinsorm]

Obama is the third coming of the Lord, not the second. Duh.

[Mabus]

Who is Mabus?

Seriously, I have no idea.
Whipping boy of the Obamaniacs, by the looks of many posters here.

I post facts, they get pissed. Many attempt to skip the facts or questions in side-tracks. I attempt to further explain to them, they make personal attacks. I attack back to defend, they group up to attack, usually posting nonsensical "tactics". Then they degenerate into misquotes, lies, fairy tales and picking at posting styles as they seem to not be able to handle the truth. After a short period of time they pretty well attack as soon as I post, and some even post negative comments about me in threads I am not a part of at all.

I find it fascinating.

Who is Tisket?

[CrystalTears]

Tisket is better than you. That is all you need know.

[Clove]

"Facts" such as he lied about his uncle. Which aren't facts at all.

[Sean of the Thread]

Wait.. did he actually lie about his uncle or just mistakenly drop the wrong camp. Or is this another instance?

[CrystalTears]

Obama mistakenly stated the wrong camp. Mabus calls that lying.

[Latrinsorm]

OBAMA LIED, JEWS DIED

NO BLOOD FOR KIELBASA

[Sean of the Thread]

At any rate Rachel Ray is a plump assed motor mouthed annoying twat.

If it wasn't for her constant whiny sounding yapping I'd plug a few of her holes assuming they were properly groomed with laser removal.... those kind of brunettes have emislutty stubble.

[Parkbandit]

Obama mistakenly stated the wrong camp. Mabus calls that lying.


There are multiple mistakenly stated things from Obama.. like his Grandfather signed up in the army the day after Pearl Harbor.. when in fact, he signed up in June of the following year.

It's a pattern that Obama has displayed for a very long time.. embellish the truth to make it sound better or make his point more powerful.

If Obama said his Great Uncle was there at Treblinka after the Germans had already closed the camp down.. it wouldn't be nearly as powerful as his Uncle liberating Auschwitz.

[Clove]

If Obama said his Great Uncle was there at Treblinka after the Germans had already closed the camp down.. it wouldn't be nearly as powerful as his Uncle liberating Auschwitz.No it wouldn't, unless your uncle also happened to be at the liberation of Buchenwald, which was just as notorious a concentration camp.

[Parkbandit]

No it wouldn't, unless your uncle also happened to be at the liberation of Buchenwald, which was just as notorious a concentration camp.

I thought it was found that he was at Treblinka. They were all notorious, but Auschwitz is known by far more Americans than Buchenwald.

[AnticorRifling]

I thought we were talking about doughnuts, scarves, and plowing Rachael Ray...

[Tisket]

Who is Tisket?

I'm a person with a keyboard and internet access. Much like every other poster here.

And CT, how YOU doin'?

P.S. We need a leering smiley.

[Clove]

I thought it was found that he was at Treblinka. They were all notorious, but Auschwitz is known by far more Americans than Buchenwald.http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/27/obamas_uncle_and_the_liberatio.html


The Obama campaign says the mistake was not as horrific as it might seem. His uncle was there at the liberation of Buchenwald. Obama just confused the names of the concentration camps.

"Senator Obama's family is proud of the service of his grandfather and uncles in World War II - especially the fact that his great uncle was a part of liberating one of the concentration camps at Buchenwald. Yesterday he mistakenly referred to Auschwitz instead of Buchenwald in telling of his personal experience of a soldier in his family who served heroically," said Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton this afternoon in a statement, which also clarified that the great-uncle "Served in the 89th Infantry Division that Liberated Ohrdruf, a Subcamp of Buchenwald, the First Camp Liberated by Americans, on April 4, 1945."

I suppose you could say Auschwitz is a little more famous, but honestly Buchenwald is pretty recognizable (if you made it to High School).

[Mabus]

Tisket is better than you. That is all you need know.
Good enough for me!

[Mabus]

"Facts" such as he lied about his uncle. Which aren't facts at all.
He "misspoke" according to his campaign. He also must have
misspoke" when he include lines in a speech about his grandfather speaking to "fellow soldiers" that liberated Auschwitz and Treblinka in 2002. US soldiers did not free either camp.

Obama's family must tell some tall tales around the old campfire. I am sure some of you would believe the one about the fish, that was THAT big!

[Clove]

He "misspoke" according to his campaign. He also must have
misspoke" when he include lines in a speech about his grandfather speaking to "fellow soldiers" that liberated Auschwitz and Treblinka in 2002. US soldiers did not free either camp.

Obama's family must tell some tall tales around the old campfire. I am sure some of you would believe the one about the fish, that was THAT big!Allies are fellow soldiers dolt.

[Stanley Burrell]

The "ray" in "Rachael Ray" stands for the space ray gun that's going to attack jesus.

I knew it.

[Stanley Burrell]

Allies are fellow soldiers dolt.

You don't want to pull that card.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPvmIxu-LSA

Oh, man, I think I need reading glasses. Well. Pretend it says "Alien" still. And then click the link.

I will not wear glasses so that a child may walk.

[Parkbandit]

Allies are fellow soldiers dolt.


Auchwitz was liberated by the Soviet Union... hardly considered a 'fellow soldier" at anytime during WWII or beyond. Treblinka was already closed down by the time a "fellow soldier" of any sort 'liberated' it.

[Mabus]

Allies are fellow soldiers dolt.
Are you saying his grandfather talked to Soviet soldiers? I would like a clarification from Obama on how this happened.

Until Obama can give proof of his grandfather speaking to Soviet soldiers about the camps I, and many others, will consider it as Obama using the holocaust for political pandering.

[Clove]

Until Obama can give proof of his grandfather speaking to Soviet soldiers about the camps I, and many others, will consider it as Obama using the holocaust for political pandering.Not many others. You can consider it political pandering but his family did in fact have a hand in liberating concentration camps. You're just full of shit.

[CrystalTears]

Hopefully Obama's advisors have told him to not mention names and just say "a concentration camp" since the exact location is so important to many and can't see past it to understand the main point.

[Clove]

Auchwitz was liberated by the Soviet Union... hardly considered a 'fellow soldier" at anytime during WWII or beyond. Treblinka was already closed down by the time a "fellow soldier" of any sort 'liberated' it.I disagree, we were Allied Forces. And Germany, Italy and Japan were Axis Forces.

[Latrinsorm]

He also must have
misspoke" when he include lines in a speech about his grandfather speaking to "fellow soldiers" that liberated Auschwitz and Treblinka in 2002.
Are you saying his grandfather talked to Soviet soldiers? At this point you're refusing to understand what Obama actually said. If I say I've heard the stories of Jesus, I don't mean I've talked directly to Jesus*. Similarly, if Obama were to say his grandfather heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka, he would not mean that his grandfather talked directly to said troops.

*That I happen to have talked to directly to Jesus is inconsequential to this post, of course. :)

[Clove]

*That I happen to have talked to directly to Jesus is inconsequential to this post, of course. :)What's worse is that Jesus actually talks back to Latrin (and tells him to stop touching himself).

[Martaigne]

What's worse is that Jesus actually talks back to Latrin (and tells him to stop touching himself).

Or his dad will kill kittens.

[Clove]

Or his dad will kill kittens.And Obama will lie... I mean pander... I mean....

[Martaigne]

And Obama will lie... I mean pander... I mean....

Fib? Exaggerate? Fabricate?

[Mabus]

Not many others. You can consider it political pandering but his family did in fact have a hand in liberating concentration camps. You're just full of shit.
The Obama Iraq speech did include Auschwitz and Treblinka.

You cannot dispute that, so you attack. I can understand that.

[Latrinsorm]

So Mabus pisses and moans about how nobody addresses his actual points, but when somebody (me) does he ignores them? I've said it before and I'll say it again: inconceivable!!

[Clove]

The Obama Iraq speech did include Auschwitz and Treblinka.

You cannot dispute that, so you attack. I can understand that.
And you can't accuse Obama of lying (on any significant point) so you tapdance your way into "pandering". I know both speeches and the semantics have already been explained to you (exhaustively). You have poor comprehension and/or are trying to exaggerate any flaw you can find in Obama. In the vernacular; full of shit. I can understand that.

[Clove]

So Mabus pisses and moans about how nobody addresses his actual points, but when somebody (me) does he ignores them? I've said it before and I'll say it again: inconceivable!!Just par for the course for Mini-ClydeR.

[Mabus]

At this point you're refusing to understand what Obama actually said. If I say I've heard the stories of Jesus, I don't mean I've talked directly to Jesus*. Similarly, if Obama were to say his grandfather heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka, he would not mean that his grandfather talked directly to said troops.

*That I happen to have talked to directly to Jesus is inconsequential to this post, of course. :)

"My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton’s army. "-Obama

Fact:
(from the World War II Kansas Veterans Index)
Name: Dunham, Stanley A.
Enlisted: 18 June 1942, Army Service
Service #: 17056069
Registration: Unregistered
Place Augusta, Butler Co. (Board # 2)

That look like the day after Pearl Harbor to you Obama supporters? One lie.

"He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. " -Obama

Notice "he heard the stories of fellow troops" not "he heard stories of" but "the stories of". He is stating that his grandfather heard from people that were there (those that first entered the camps), not stories passed around that finally reached him.

When a statement has provable lies in it it is always good to then question the rest of the statement. Unless you are a fanatical supporter that believes anything your "adored one" says, of course.

[Mabus]

Just par for the course for Mini-ClydeR.
Nice tactic! Compare a poster that whips you with facts to another that you believe is viewed negatively by the community!

Gee, you sure are good at this!

[CrystalTears]

The day you signed up isn't necessarily the day you get enlisted. He may have gone to sign up, but wasn't called in until a few months later. So he may not be lying about that. How that procedure worked back then will need to be looked into. I don't have the time right now.

[Clove]

Nice tactic! Compare a poster that whips you with facts to another that you believe is viewed negatively by the community!

Gee, you sure are good at this!I thought you'd take it as complementary Mini-C.

[Mabus]

So Mabus pisses and moans about how nobody addresses his actual points, but when somebody (me) does he ignores them? I've said it before and I'll say it again: inconceivable!!
Let me help you out here, asshole.

This is a forum. People post, and others respond.

If you want instant replies try a chat room, a telephone, or an actual conversation with real people right there in the room with you.

OK?

[Clove]

Notice "he heard the stories of fellow troops" not "he heard stories of" but "the stories of". He is stating that his grandfather heard from people that were there (those that first entered the camps), not stories passed around that finally reached him.Your command of grammar sucks it's the preposition that changes the object of the sentence, not the definite article of (prepopsition) the (definite article) noun. Got all that Mini-C?

[Mabus]

The day you signed up isn't necessarily the day you get enlisted.
Though that would be a nice way to explain the lie, it is not true.

That date is the day he enlisted, not the day he got to basic training. When you "enlist" is when you "sign up", they are the same day (unless you are Obama, then you subtract 6 months or so).

[Mabus]

Your command of grammar sucks it's the preposition that changes the object of the sentence, not the definite article of (prepopsition) the (definite article) noun. Got all that Mini-C?
Right, right.

So explain the grammar behind "the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed" and a June enlistment.

[landy]

My Grandfather is 93, he forgets quite a few details about his time as a tail-gunner in WWII, yet that wouldn't stop me from proudly sharing a few of his stories from the era. If one or two of those stories had details a bit muggled up, I don't think myself nor his character should be called in to question. I also think most normal human beings would have the decency not to try and make an issue out of it if there were a few details out of order.

To sum up, you're a fucking twat Mabus.

[Mabus]

To sum up, you're a fucking twat Mabus.
Right.

Because Obama spews untrue stories as a means of furthering his political career I am called names.

Bet you will be voting for McCain, right?

Right...

[Parkbandit]

So Mabus pisses and moans about how nobody addresses his actual points, but when somebody (me) does he ignores them? I've said it before and I'll say it again: inconceivable!!


In Mabus' defense, he probably just skipped your post like most people do.

[landy]

Probably not. Although I do give McCain special consideration being a prior service member like myself, I simply can't condone another term of republican apathy towards a spiraling economy and further investment in foreign civil war.

[Parkbandit]

Probably not. Although I do give McCain special consideration being a prior service member like myself, I simply can't condone another term of republican apathy towards a spiraling economy and further investment in foreign civil war.


We're fucked either way.. all 3 remaining candidates approve the cap and trade bullshit that will "only" increase a gallon of gas a minimum of $1.50 (according to EPA). Of course, Obama pledges to bring about BILLIONS of dollars worth of entitlements, handouts and payoffs if he's elected.

[Clove]

To sum up, you're a fucking twat Mabus.
QFT

Right.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

My Grandfather is 93, he forgets quite a few details about his time as a tail-gunner in WWII, yet that wouldn't stop me from proudly sharing a few of his stories from the era. If one or two of those stories had details a bit muggled up, I don't think myself nor his character should be called in to question. I also think most normal human beings would have the decency not to try and make an issue out of it if there were a few details out of order.

To sum up, you're a fucking twat Mabus.

:yeahthat:

[Latrinsorm]

Let me help you out here, asshole.

This is a forum. People post, and others respond.

If you want instant replies try a chat room, a telephone, or an actual conversation with real people right there in the room with you.

OK?It was the second time I had corrected you on this issue. :)

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?p=737021#post737021

[Clove]

Let me help you out here, asshole.Because Latrin asks why you haven't responded to his point, he is called names.

[longshot]

Ray hawked Urban Outfitters scarves on her website before appearing in the Dunkin Donuts ad. If she (or whichever stylist is dressing her) wasn’t aware of the jihad scarf controversy before she posed for the Dunkin campaign, she should have been. Urban Outfitters initially pulled the keffiyeh merchandise and apologized when Jewish customers protested, but reintroduced them with different names and colors in several global markets. This is the same company that marketed a bigotry-laced “Everyone loves a Jewish girl t-shirt” stamped with dollar signs and shopping bags.

It's kind of funny how Jewish people protest, instead of threaten violence and blow things up. They send editorials to newspapers, instead of bombs.

Just because you are unaware or choose to ignore the growing acceptance of a fascist, political ideology cloaked under the premise of religion doesn't mean that it isn't happening.

If this shirt was perceived as pro-Israel in a muslim country, how many Urban Outfitters would still be standing? How many fatwas and death threats would be issued?

The surrender of the West to moral and cultural equivalence is fucking disgusting.

You might think Michelle is crazy, but it's good to know that someone is paying attention. Dunkin Donuts did the right thing. It's ridiculous that Urban Outfitters would even sell keffiyeh merchandise.

[Latrinsorm]

It's kind of funny how Jewish people protest, instead of threaten violence and blow things up. They send editorials to newspapers, instead of bombs.I don't know exactly what you mean by cultural equivalence, but I respectfully suggest you've adopted the opposite (and equally incorrect) extreme position on this issue.

[longshot]

I don't know exactly what you mean by cultural equivalence, but I respectfully suggest you've adopted the opposite (and equally incorrect) extreme position on this issue.

If you don't know what it means, then how can you comment?

I figured you for smarter than that...

(edited to add the following)

And please feel free to point out what I've said that's incorrect. That'd be great.

[Mabus]

It was the second time I had corrected you on this issue. :)

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?p=737021#post737021
You "corrected" no one.

Obama lied in his speech. Not only did he give an incorrect date for his grandfather's enlistment, but he also suggests that his grandfather heard from "fellow soldiers" about liberating camps that the western allies did not liberate.

Just thought I would "correct" you on that. I would not want you to continue in a state of ignorance.

Now explain the enlistment mistake. Did his grandfather enlist the day after Pearl Harbor, as Obama states in his 2002 Iraq speech, or did he not. It is simple.

[Mabus]

Because Latrin asks why you haven't responded to his point, he is called names.
Notice how he initiates the attack with his "pisses and moans" comment in the post referenced?

Of course not. Many here cannot see that they attack, and others defend. They only point out what they perceive as flaws in the defense afterward, skipping the fact that they started the conflict.

[Latrinsorm]

If you don't know what it means, then how can you comment?I reckon I got the gist of it, but not "exactly". :)
And please feel free to point out what I've said that's incorrect. That'd be great.Ariel Sharon comes to mind as an enormous counter-example to your statement about Jewish people (although that may be using "Jewish" a bit loosely). Your characterization of "muslim nations" is similarly one-sided, and hence incorrect.
but he also suggests that his grandfather heard from "fellow soldiers" about liberating camps that the western allies did not liberate.He does nothing of the sort. I encourage you to read the post I linked you to for illustration; I can't make it any plainer for you.
Now explain the enlistment mistake. Did his grandfather enlist the day after Pearl Harbor, as Obama states in his 2002 Iraq speech, or did he not. It is simple.Like others have pointed out to you, old people don't have the best memories in the world. This is one plausible explanation; another is that Obama fudged the numbers to make whatever story he was telling more compelling. To insist that one plausible explanation is the correct one without evidence bespeaks some nonzero level of bias.

[CrystalTears]

Though that would be a nice way to explain the lie, it is not true.

That date is the day he enlisted, not the day he got to basic training. When you "enlist" is when you "sign up", they are the same day (unless you are Obama, then you subtract 6 months or so).
From what I've found in my searches, sign up is not necessarily your enlisted date. It is very possible that he signed up and was put on a delayed entry program. The enlisted time doesn't start until he's actively in the service.

If one of the military guys wishes to correct me, that would be great. But I haven't seen where signing up is necessarily the date you start.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

From what I've found in my searches, sign up is not necessarily your enlisted date. It is very possible that he signed up and was put on a delayed entry program. The enlisted time doesn't start until he's actively in the service.

If one of the military guys wishes to correct me, that would be great. But I haven't seen where signing up is necessarily the date you start.

This is true.

I come from a family in the Navy, and I know this is true in the Navy. Signing up and officially joining are two different things-- there's a shit load of paperwork and stuff to be done before hand.

[longshot]

I reckon I got the gist of it, but not "exactly".

No, you don't get the "gist" of it. I'm surprised. I really am. I've lost a ton of respect for you. You're attempting to argue against something you don't understand.


Ariel Sharon comes to mind as an enormous counter-example to your statement about Jewish people (although that may be using "Jewish" a bit loosely).

You're selectively picking a government leader to counter an argument about an entire people? I'll stick to my assertion that Jewish people use peaceful means to protest. I've never heard of a murder plot against a cartoonist...


Your characterization of "muslim nations" is similarly one-sided, and hence incorrect.

People have died because cartoons. Because of making movies. Because of writing books. Because of leaving their religion.

For all the liberals that stand with the Palestinians, you hold beliefs such as freedom of speech, equality for women, rights for people with different sexual preference, and freedom of choice in religion. Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, yes?

Yet you continue to support an Islamic terrorist organization.
One that openly discriminates against non-muslims (check what's happened to the Christian population in Gaza since the Hamas takeover).
You support a culture that believes homesexuality is a crime punishable by death.
Apostasy is punishable by death.
Marriages are arranged.
Honor killings condoned.
Genital mutilation accepted.
Sex with a nine year old is allowed.
Submission of women codified in law.

One where dying while fighting those with different beliefs are rewarded with paradise.

I don't see how these beliefs are congruent. I would love if you could explain this to me.

[landy]

From what I've found in my searches, sign up is not necessarily your enlisted date. It is very possible that he signed up and was put on a delayed entry program. The enlisted time doesn't start until he's actively in the service.

If one of the military guys wishes to correct me, that would be great. But I haven't seen where signing up is necessarily the date you start.

I can't speak for military protocol in that time period, but what you are getting at is quite possible today. Many people will visit the recruiter and take their ASVAB, sign all paperwork, and go in to what is essentially a delayed entry program. Meaning the date of enlistment won't begin until their active service does.

[CrystalTears]

How it worked exactly back then is what I'm still researching. However I had heard of episodes where someone had signed up and was just waiting for him to get called, which wasn't until months later.

[Clove]

Notice how he initiates the attack with his "pisses and moans" comment in the post referenced?Obviously you're very persecuted. Or is this more pissing and moaning?. Cute but commenting on your pissing and moaning or bitching, hardly warrants calling him an asshole. And he did, after all address the point twice. It's okay Mini-C. We all get a little Emo sometimes.

[Clove]

You "corrected" no one.Correcting a nobody, isn't the same as correcting no one.


Obama lied in his speech. Not only did he give an incorrect date for his grandfather's enlistment You're really dragging the bottom now. He was incorrect about his grandfather's enlistment date. Clearly this is one manipulative bastard.


but he also suggests that his grandfather heard from "fellow soldiers" about liberating camps that the western allies did not liberate.And finally we have a cataclysmic failure at reading comprehension, even though it's been explained to you at least three times.

You remember my discussion on prepositions. Bolded in your quote above is a preposition. IF "from" had been used it would have indicated "fellow soldiers" as a direct object. A direct object is a noun or pronoun that receives or shows the result of an action.

Now, I want you to pay close attention here because if you blink you might miss it. Are you ready?


"He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain." - Barack Obama 2002

Can you find "from" anywhere in the quote above? I bet you can't. He stated that his grandfather heard stories OF fellow soldiers. OF. OF for the love of sweet fucking Jesus you retard learn English.

[Parkbandit]

Obviously you're very persecuted. Or is this more pissing and moaning?. Cute but commenting on your pissing and moaning or bitching, hardly warrants calling him an asshole. And he did, after all address the point twice. It's okay Mini-C. We all get a little Emo sometimes.


So it's ok for you to call Mabus nicknames and tell him he's full of shit and retarded.. but he's somehow not allowed to return the favor to anyone?

Sounds like someone's been reading his Liberal manual a bit too much lately. You are starting to sound rather hypocritical.

Don't be that guy man.

[Clove]

So it's ok for you to call Mabus nicknames and tell him he's full of shit and retarded.. but he's somehow not allowed to return the favor to anyone?He's allowed, but not when he makes such a big deal about all the horrible names people call him when all he's doing is arguing. That's clearly not the case and I believe you call that... what do you call that again PB... is it a hypocrite?

[Parkbandit]

He's allowed, but not when he makes such a big deal about all the horrible names people call him when all he's doing is arguing. That's clearly not the case and I believe you call that... what do you call that again PB... is it a hypocrite?

Eh.. I think someone who complains that Mabus is calling someone an asshole in one breath.. then calling Mabus a retard in another is rather hypocritical. But hey.. I don't want to get in the way of your bitchfest... it's rather nice to sit on the sidelines and watch for a change :)


Carry on.

[Clove]

Eh.. I think someone who complains that Mabus is calling someone an asshole in one breath.. then calling Mabus a retard in another is rather hypocritical. But hey.. I don't want to get in the way of your bitchfest... it's rather nice to sit on the sidelines and watch for a change :)


Carry on.It wasn't a complaint, you might have noticed that I mirrored Mabus' earlier post about how he was being called names... as I was pointing out his own name-calling. I don't care what he calls Latrin.

[Parkbandit]

It wasn't a complaint, you might have noticed that I mirrored Mabus' earlier post about how he was being called names... as I was pointing out his own name-calling. I don't care what he calls Latrin.

Ah.. didn't notice it.

ok, sorry for the distraction. You two get back at it.

:)

[Mabus]

Correcting a nobody, isn't the same as correcting no one.
That is why correcting you is such a chore.

He was incorrect about his grandfather's enlistment date.
Yes, he lied.

The quote is not from some informal get together, or simple slip of the tongue. It comes from his "landmark Iraq speech" he often points to to show that he was against the Iraq War from the beginning.

He knew exactly what he wrote there.

One would have to believe he was simply mislead by his family, or that he lied. I choose the latter (surprised?)


Clearly this is one manipulative bastard.
I am glad we can agree about Obama.

[Clove]

That is why correcting you is such a chore.

Yes, he lied.

The quote is not from some informal get together, or simple slip of the tongue. It comes from his "landmark Iraq speech" he often points to to show that he was against the Iraq War from the beginning.

He knew exactly what he wrote there.

One would have to believe he was simply mislead by his family, or that he lied. I choose the latter (surprised?)


I am glad we can agree about Obama.You're like a broken record. You refuse to address that part of your argument is based on an incorrect quote, or that there is no appreciable difference between Auschwitz and Buchenwald. All you're left with is that Obama was mistaken about the enlistment date of grandfather. Well that just blows the whole point of his speech.

As much as you'd like to spin it, these details really don't impact the substance of his statements and really don't indicate deliberate deception one way or the other.

Unlike McCain (who I am much more comfortable with as a candidate) when he said:
"hostages came home from Iran when President Reagan was president" True enough, except the hostages came back during Reagan's inauguration- he hadn't been in office leading up to their release and had no hand in the negotiations for their release. So, here we have an example of a statement that's technically true, yet plainly deceptive- but I don't hear you bitching about what a liar McCain is.

[Mabus]

You refuse to address that part of your argument is based on an incorrect quote,
The quote was accurate.


or that there is no appreciable difference between Auschwitz and Buchenwald.
In the quoted speech it was Auschwitz and Treblinka. Only when Obama currently "misspoke" did Buchenwald even come up.

You are able to follow a thread, correct?


or All you're left with is that Obama was mistaken about the enlistment date of grandfather.
He wrote it. He spoke it. He lied.

Pretty easy to understand, even for you I would imagine.

As much as you'd like to spin it, these details really don't impact the substance of his statements and really don't indicate deliberate deception one way or the other.
What sort of deception would you term it then? Non-deliberate deception? Unexpected fabrication? Come now, great Clove, show that linguistic expertise!


Unlike McCain (who I am much more comfortable with as a candidate) when he said: True enough, except the hostages came back during Reagan's inauguration-
They were released minutes after the inauguration, according to several sources.


he hadn't been in office leading up to their release and had no hand in the negotiations for their release.
Unless one believes the "October Surprise" conspiracy theories. There have been some credible sources that have stated the Iranians did not want to deal with Reagan, and that potential "carrots and sticks" went through channels.


So, here we have an example of a statement that's technically true, yet plainly deceptive- but I don't hear you bitching about what a liar McCain is.
No, I hear you doing so now, and several others doing so (or worse) over multiple threads.

As the hostages were released after the inauguration McCain was correct. Even if it was close it would still be unlike Obama's lie, where he had a six month delay between lie and truth, rather then mere minutes. Obama wasn't even close to "technically true". He used Pearl Harbor as part of his statement purely for the emotional impact the day would have. I have called Obama a lot of things, but I have never called him stupid. He knows how to pander.

I am sure you fail to see that difference.

[Clove]

The quote was accurate.Only if you can't distinguish between "of" and "from"
In the quoted speech it was Auschwitz and Treblinka. Only when Obama currently "misspoke" did Buchenwald even come up. You are able to follow a thread, correct?Are you? Two different speeches about two different people.
He wrote it. He spoke it. He lied.
Pretty easy to understand, even for you I would imagine.Or he wrote it, he spoke it, he didn't vet his source. That's pretty easy to understand even for someone who doesn't know the difference between "of" and "from".

What sort of deception would you term it then? Non-deliberate deception? Unexpected fabrication? Come now, great Clove, show that linguistic expertise!I wouldn't term it deceptive at all since the factual errors have little bearing on the content. While being able to distinguish between articles of speech may impress you I assure it doesn't make me a linguistic expert- just capable of speaking English.

They were released minutes after the inauguration, according to several sources.No shit sherlock. Minutes after and during are effectively the same.
Unless one believes the "October Surprise" conspiracy theories. There have been some credible sources that have stated the Iranians did not want to deal with Reagan, and that potential "carrots and sticks" went through channels.Debatable and it doesn't change the fact that Reagan was not directly involved with the hostage negotiations or release.
As the hostages were released after the inauguration McCain was correct. Even if it was close it would still be unlike Obama's lie, where he had a six month delay between lie and truth, rather then mere minutes.No I get it. Honesty is all about timing. Incorrect/=lie.

[AnticorRifling]

I can't wait for the election to be over so you retards stop turning every thread into this shit.

[CrystalTears]

Thanks for ignoring my statements that signing up and enlistment date are not one in the same. So unless you prove that they are, Obama is not a liar in that respect.

[Parkbandit]

Thanks for ignoring my statements that signing up and enlistment date are not one in the same. So unless you prove that they are, Obama is not a liar in that respect.

Wait.. so if I prove that signing up and enlisting date are the same.. or at least it didn't take 7 months, you will then agree that Obama might not be the truth telling savior you make him out to be? A direct answer would be really swell here.

[Clove]

Wait.. so if I prove that signing up and enlisting date are the same.. or at least it didn't take 7 months, you will then agree that Obama might not be the truth telling savior you make him out to be? A direct answer would be really swell here.Jesus PB... you're derailing the Rachel Ray thread.

[CrystalTears]

Wait.. so if I prove that signing up and enlisting date are the same.. or at least it didn't take 7 months, you will then agree that Obama might not be the truth telling savior you make him out to be? A direct answer would be really swell here.
Even though I never said he was a truth telling savior, I will say that he made untrue statements (not a lie, since we don't know if it stated deliberately) should that be the case here.

That said, it won't change the fact that his grandfather still served in WWII.

[Clove]

That said, it won't change the fact that his grandfather still served in WWII.Maybe even dodged sniper fire or helped rescue hostages.

[Parkbandit]

Even though I never said he was a truth telling savior, I will say that he made untrue statements (not a lie, since we don't know if it stated deliberately) should that be the case here.

That said, it won't change the fact that his grandfather still served in WWII.


But can we at least agree upon the fact that Obama tends to exagerate and embellish his stories to make them more powerful? And these are just 2 stories that can be collaborated with actual facts.

[Parkbandit]

Maybe even dodged sniper fire or helped rescue hostages.

See... we hammered the hell out of Clinton for doing the very same thing... but Obama gets the "Well, his Grandfather served in the Army"

I think both are in the wrong.

[CrystalTears]

No, because we don't know if they are being said specifically to embellish his story, or if he just sucks with dates and names.

[CrystalTears]

See... we hammered the hell out of Clinton for doing the very same thing... but Obama gets the "Well, his Grandfather served in the Army"

I think both are in the wrong.
Yes but with Clinton she TOTALLY embellished her story because there was never sniper fire. It's not like she said it happened in Venezuela but it was really Bosnia. If the sniper fire were real but she stated the wrong time or place, it wouldn't be a big deal either.

[Parkbandit]

Yes but with Clinton she TOTALLY embellished her story because there was never sniper fire. It's not like she said it happened in Venezuela but it was really Bosnia. If the sniper fire were real but she stated the wrong time or place, it wouldn't be a big deal either.


Let's just assume the following:

Hillary agrees to go to Bosnia.. it was a war zone at the time. She is briefed in Washington about the way Bosnia is and what the procedures will be during the trip. She is instructed that most likely it will be dangerous, with snipers around the airport. She is told that they will deplane and head straight for cover.

On the plane, she is again briefed about what is going to take place once they land. Repeatedly told about snipers and what she needs to do to avoid danger.

10 years later, she is recounting the story off the cuff. I could see how she could be confused.

And now you have forced me to defend probably the one woman in the world I can't stand. Thanks alot.

[CrystalTears]

I can understand being confused about snipers. However she recalled the story correctly in her book. And then when speaking she specifically said that she ducked down, ran across the tarmac and had no welcoming when she landed. She strolled off, with her daughter, walked to the welcoming committee and smiled and shook hands for a decent amount of time.

Recalling an event incorrectly is different, imo, than recalling a story that was told to you by an old geezer.

[Parkbandit]

I can understand being confused about snipers. However she recalled the story correctly in her book. And then when speaking she specifically said that she ducked down, ran across the tarmac and had no welcoming when she landed. She strolled off, with her daughter, walked to the welcoming committee and smiled and shook hands for a decent amount of time.

Recalling an event incorrectly is different, imo, than recalling a story that was told to you by an old geezer.

Eh.. point taken. Maybe his Great Uncle and his Grandfathers were the embellishers... and Obama simply didn't verify the facts before using the stories.

I can buy that... can we make up with naked boobie pics now?

[Tisket]

Scarves, people! Scarves!

[Latrinsorm]

Let's just assume the following:

Hillary agrees to go to Bosnia.. it was a war zone at the time. She is briefed in Washington about the way Bosnia is and what the procedures will be during the trip. She is instructed that most likely it will be dangerous, with snipers around the airport. She is told that they will deplane and head straight for cover.

On the plane, she is again briefed about what is going to take place once they land. Repeatedly told about snipers and what she needs to do to avoid danger.

10 years later, she is recounting the story off the cuff. I could see how she could be confused.Let me offer you a counter-example: you decide to pack up the family and take a trip to Hawaii. Unfortunately, while you're in flight you get the news that it's gone to shit: members of an ultrafringe revolutionary group are rebelling against what they perceive as an illegal American occupation of their homeland. On the plane you're told that as you disembark you may be fired upon by said rebels (God forbid!).

You look at your kids.

By the time you land, you get more news. The radicals have been driven off the island you're landing on and you won't be subject to gunfire after all.

You look at your kids again.

And you want to tell me that at any point for the rest of your life, you would ever be "confused" about whether your children were actually shot at?

[Latrinsorm]

And to address Longshot's points:

A belief I hold is that it is fundamentally inaccurate to characterize a culture or nation based on the actions of a few or the current state of its government. Italian culture is no more prone to fascism than American or English, for instance. As such, to make characterizations about "an entire people", such as being "peaceful" or "terrorists", borders on the ridiculous, especially when uncountable counter-examples exist. There are many Muslims that have less in common with any given terrorist than I do, just as there are many Arabs, and many Australians, and so on. To try and chalk it up to "they're just irreconcilaby different from us" is intellectual cowardice at best.

Putting all THAT aside, your full laundry list of complaints don't even apply to the most cartoonish sense of "muslim nations" - it's as if you approached the most hate-filled fundamentalist operating under the name of Christianity and asked him or her to spew all the things wrong with Islam.

[Nieninque]

can we make up with naked boobie pics now?

Please dont post your naked boobie pics again. It wasn't nice last time.

[Daniel]

It's kind of funny how Jewish people protest, instead of threaten violence and blow things up. They send editorials to newspapers, instead of bombs.

Just because you are unaware or choose to ignore the growing acceptance of a fascist, political ideology cloaked under the premise of religion doesn't mean that it isn't happening.

If this shirt was perceived as pro-Israel in a muslim country, how many Urban Outfitters would still be standing? How many fatwas and death threats would be issued?

The surrender of the West to moral and cultural equivalence is fucking disgusting.

You might think Michelle is crazy, but it's good to know that someone is paying attention. Dunkin Donuts did the right thing. It's ridiculous that Urban Outfitters would even sell keffiyeh merchandise.

This is about the dumbest shit you've ever posted on these boards Longshot.

Seriously, you should know better than to make off the cuff generalizations that characterize a whole *religion* of several *billion* people because of one subset of it.

For the record: There are plenty of protests done for Palestinians. Come down to DC, you can't go a week without having one fuck up your morning commute. There are also plenty of questionable actions done by the IDF and Mossad. That doesn't even justify condemning the people in those organizations writ large, let alone the entire religion of judaism.

[Mabus]

Thanks for ignoring my statements that signing up and enlistment date are not one in the same. So unless you prove that they are, Obama is not a liar in that respect.
Although thgere is a good chance you will not admit you are mistaken, I did address your post dealing with enlistment dates.

Here is the quote from my post:

Though that would be a nice way to explain the lie, it is not true.

That date is the day he enlisted, not the day he got to basic training. When you "enlist" is when you "sign up", they are the same day (unless you are Obama, then you subtract 6 months or so).

[Daniel]

That's not true @ all.

The day you sign the contract has no significance whatsoever. The Army tracks your time in service from the time you actually ship off to basic training. It is officially called your "enlistment date".

Although, I'm sure it has no relevance for you because it doesn't back up your unhealthy obsession with Obama, my part time job for another 5 months is as a Human Resources NCO for the US Army. So please save yourself the trouble and don't argue your irrelevant point.

[CrystalTears]

Although thgere is a good chance you will not admit you are mistaken, I did address your post dealing with enlistment dates.
Oh the irony!


Here is the quote from my post:
And here is mine afterwards...

From what I've found in my searches, sign up is not necessarily your enlisted date. It is very possible that he signed up and was put on a delayed entry program. The enlisted time doesn't start until he's actively in the service.

If one of the military guys wishes to correct me, that would be great. But I haven't seen where signing up is necessarily the date you start.
So as I said... unless you can prove without a doubt that the sign-up date is the exact same one as the date you start actively serving, then YOU sir are the liar, not Obama.

[Daniel]

As I said CT, your enlistment date is the day you ship off and nobody ships off the day they sign the paperwork (This of course was probably different in WWII, but somehow I don't see someone grilling their grandfather to get enlistment regulations from 2 generations ago)

The only difference is for the Delayed Entry program, which has no impact on anything except the amount of time you have to spend in the individual ready reserve.

[Mabus]

Or he wrote it, he spoke it, he didn't vet his source.
His "source" for the comments were his family and himself.

He either needed to "vet" the family member(s) that told him the story, or "vet" his own memory of the stories.


I wouldn't term it deceptive at all since the factual errors have little bearing on the content.
The "Pearl Harbor" and "Auschwitz" and "Treblinka" comments in the Iraq speech had a direct bearing on the content. They were in one of the first paragraphs, meant to engender the listener and to show that Obama had some background (though only through historical family connections) to speaking on a military matter (The pending Iraq War).



No shit sherlock. Minutes after and during are effectively the same.
No, they are not.

An Example:
During being shot to death you could still feel pain.
Minutes after being shot to death you could not.

Another Example:
During your writing a post you could come to a decision to use facts, as I have.
After you post it is clear you cannot.

I hope this has been helpful.

[CrystalTears]

As I said CT, your enlistment date is the day you ship off and nobody ships off the day they sign the paperwork (This of course was probably different in WWII, but somehow I don't see someone grilling their grandfather to get enlistment regulations from 2 generations ago)
I didn't think so, and I didn't think it would be any different back then seeing as how things didn't move as fast as they do now.


The only difference is for the Delayed Entry program, which has no impact on anything except the amount of time you have to spend in the individual ready reserve.Ah okay, wasn't sure exactly how that worked. Thanks.


The "Pearl Harbor" and "Auschwitz" and "Treblinka" comments in the Iraq speech had a direct bearing on the content. They were in one of the first paragraphs, meant to engender the listener and to show that Obama had some background (though only through historical family connections) to speaking on a military matter (The pending Iraq War).
But the enlistment date and the name of the camp don't change the fact that his grandfather served in WWII and his uncle was in a troop that helped with the liberation of a concentration camp.

[Daniel]

Are you stupid? You don't "vet" your grandfather for dumb shit information about WWII.

You're lucky if he even talks about the shit, and on the off chance he does you're not going to miss that opportunity to verify whether or not his enlistment date counted as his sign up date.

Get a fucking grip Mabus.

[Daniel]

I didn't think so, and I didn't think it would be any different back then seeing as how things didn't move as fast as they do now.

.

Maybe. It's hard to say because I imagine they didn't have the same restrictions we do now.

[Mabus]

But the enlistment date and the name of the camp don't change the fact that his grandfather served in WWII and his uncle was in a troop that helped with the liberation of a concentration camp.
To enlist means to sign up, to join. In a question "Did you enlist or were you drafted?" the questioner would not be asking what date you shipped out.

And yes, his grandfather and uncle served. Obama did not.

Obama's great-uncle (C.W. Payne) was in the 89th Infantry Division.

From my research the 4th Armored Division, which had one regiment of the 89th (the 355th Infantry Regiment), did liberate Ohrdruf on April 4, 1945 , which was part of the extended Buchenwald complex.

US Third Army, US 9th Armored Infantry Battalion, US 6th Armored Division and US 83rd Infantry Division arrived at, and liberated, the main Buchenwald complex on 13 April 1945.

So it is likely that his great-uncle did help to liberate part of Buchenwald, if he was a soldier assigned to the 355th.

Western allies did not liberate Auschwitz or Treblinka.

Now it is slightly strange that the exact same people that would say "You cannot damn Obama for his past associations!" are now the same ones saying "See, Obama is associated with people that did serve in the military!".

He "embellished", "pandered", "lied"...
...he is just another self-serving politician.

Just like Rachael Ray may be self-serving to many doughnuts!

[Daniel]

Mabus: You lose. You degenerated the entire argument into some silly semantic battle over whether or not your enlistment date is the day you leave.

You are wrong, so please...just let it go.

[Snapp]

I can't wait for the election to be over so you retards stop turning every thread into this shit.

We got a long five months to go. :help:

[Mabus]

Mabus: You lose. You degenerated the entire argument into some silly semantic battle over whether or not your enlistment date is the day you leave.

You are wrong, so please...just let it go.
Let's see who derailed the thread?

Page 1, you said, "To save Mabus the time: Obviously I'm anti semitic."

Not until page 5 do I post, when I jokingly state, "That means she has some redeeming value! And people said "Auschwitz" was a non-story."

Which then leads us here.

If you feel that a candidate can lie, embellish, tell tall tales, misspeak or however you want to spin it then fine. I can understand you wanting someone that does that, and even why you can idolize them.

Birds of a feather, and all that.

[CrystalTears]

To enlist means to sign up, to join. In a question "Did you enlist or were you drafted?" the questioner would not be asking what date you shipped out.
This has already been stated that it's false. Someone in the military would know what their enlistment date is, and from my understanding, it isn't the date you sign up.


And yes, his grandfather and uncle served. Obama did not.Was it ever stated the contrary? Did Obama ever state that he was in the military? Just his uncle and grandfather, right? What was the point of stating this obvious statement?


Western allies did not liberate Auschwitz or Treblinka.
We've established this already. You keep going back to it though. The mention of Auschwitz and Treblinka was regarding his grandfather calling those events. His uncle liberated Buchenwald. You're confusing two different stories.


Now it is slightly strange that the exact same people that would say "You cannot damn Obama for his past associations!" are now the same ones saying "See, Obama is associated with people that did serve in the military!".
You can't damn him for his associations. You can't damn him for knowing people that say things you don't like, and you can't damn him for retelling stories of his family members.


He "embellished", "pandered", "lied"...
...he is just another self-serving politician.
You can't prove that he changed the date and names to embellish his story (which doesn't embellish anything at all.) How does saying Auschwitz over Bachwald make his story more powerful? How does him saying his uncle signed up 6 months earlier than the enlistment date change that he served during WWII? How is any of it a lie? You can't prove this "lie" at all.

[Back]

A Boston Cream donut makes for a great breakfast dessert to a bacon, egg and cheese on croissant.

[Mabus]

This has already been stated that it's false.
Stated? Sure, Daniel will state anything in blind support of Obama. Proven? No, it has not.

Find me a definition of enlist that states "the time of shipping out" as opposed to "to join, to sign up", "to join the military", "engage somebody to enter the army", "to enroll oneself in the armed forces" or any of the other accepted definitions dealing with military service.

No definition of enlist I could find means "date of shipping out". None, except for Daniel's, and I do not find him a credible source.

[CrystalTears]

Why am I the one who has to do your research? You're the one stating that he's the liar because it's one in the same. You prove it, since you don't want to believe someone who was in the military. Show me where it says it's the same thing.

[Mabus]

Why am I the one who has to do your research? You're the one stating that he's the liar because it's one in the same. You prove it, since you don't want to believe someone who was in the military. Show me where it says it's the same thing.

I have done my research, as my last post includes several accepted definitions of the word "enlist".

If you are stating that the accepted definitions are not to be accepted, but instead that we accept a non-standard definition, then the burden is on you to support why we should use a non-standard definition.

[Latrinsorm]

Proven? No, it has not.This is actually an interesting point. To "prove" something is to make (usually implicit) reference to a number of premises and basic rules of logic. In this case, some of us are operating under the premise that the words "of" and "from" have different meanings - should Mabus choose to refuse that premise, there would be no way to prove him incorrect; he is simply ignorant of a brute fact.

What's more interesting is how he accuses Daniel of insuperable bias - by doing so, he's able to ignore the contradiction between reality and his distortion of it with an understandable pretext, thus resolving the cognitive dissonance he would otherwise suffer. He is still simply ignorant of the brute fact that Daniel is not afflicted with such levels of bias, but such ignorance is far easier to sustain than a manifest contradiction.

Furthermore, Obama's pastor is RACIST!!!

[CrystalTears]

Source it, or it didn't happen.

[Latrinsorm]

I have done my research, as my last post includes several accepted definitions of the word "enlist".Another masterpiece defense mechanism! By simply declaring these definitions "accepted", Mabus doesn't have to worry about what the military considers enlistment date to mean. All he needs is an implicit reference to an as-of-yet unnamed authority on the matter, clearly if people are unwilling to accept that it must be their fault!

Of course, I am reasonably sure that the military is not compelled to conform to the Oxford English or any other dictionary, so his references are totally irrelevant to the current discussion, but it's still interesting from a psychological standpoint.

[CrystalTears]

Here, I'll give you a freebie...

en·list (n-lst)
v. en·list·ed, en·list·ing, en·lists
v.tr.
1. To engage (persons or a person) for service in the armed forces.
2. To engage the support or cooperation of.
v.intr.
1. To enter the armed forces.
2. To participate actively in a cause or enterprise.

[Stanley Burrell]

I like Entenmann's the best, as far as donuts go. DD's coffee is not to be fucked with. I absolutely cannot stand all that strong Starbuck's shit. Their caramel apple cider is the only reason I've even been a return customer.

When we're done fighting tarr'rism, we can have an epic war of all things pastry. Fuck the Cola wars. This is some final battle shit.

[Daniel]

AR 601_210

"Applicant and enlistee An applicant applies voluntarily for enlistment in the RA or AR and is found eligible for further processing after completing and signing the DD Form 1966. An enlistee has enlisted in the DEP, RA, AR, or ARNG. An applicant becomes an enlistee after the Oath of Enlistment is taken and applicable portions of the DD Form 4 are signed."



You "sign up" when you apply to get into service, this is done through a form called the DD 1966 or Record of Military Processing-Armed Forces of the United States. Once you have completed this form and you are ready to leave you report to a MEPS (Military entrance processsing station) to enlist and ship off to basic training. You are not an enlistee until you sign your DD 4.

Sorry Cheek. You're wrong.

[Mabus]

By simply declaring these definitions "accepted", Mabus doesn't have to worry about what the military considers enlistment date to mean.
Accepted, as from accepted dictionaries. Are you stating Obama was using a military definition at the time?

Nor do you "worry" about what the word means, or what it meant at the given time or what it means to Obama.

[Snapp]

Their caramel apple cider is the only reason I've even been a return customer.

:heart: SB's cider

[Daniel]

Accepted, as from accepted dictionaries. Are you stating Obama was using a military definition at the time?

Nor do you "worry" about what the word means, or what it meant at the given time or what it means to Obama.

This is by far the most disingenuous thing that you've ever said. It's like you projected the most logical response against your idiocy onto another person.

Well done.

[Stanley Burrell]

That stuff is awesome on a cold winter day. I dunno, maybe I can develop a taste for their coffee blends, but usually the caffeine is the only thing I taste.

And yes, Rachel Ray, Donuts, and terrorism.

Edit: In response to Snapp, rather.

[Mabus]

This is by far the most disingenuous thing that you've ever said.
If that is, then I am indeed blessed.

Thank you.
;)

[Daniel]

Just kidding.

[Latrinsorm]

Accepted, as from accepted dictionaries. Are you stating Obama was using a military definition at the time?Context is a wonderful thing, huh? :)

[Back]

That stuff is awesome on a cold winter day. I dunno, maybe I can develop a taste for their coffee blends, but usually the caffeine is the only thing I taste.

And yes, Rachel Ray, Donuts, and terrorism.

Edit: In response to Snapp, rather.

I cannot lie. I buy SB for home brew. Never appreciated the DD taste.

If I had to fight Rachel Ray the terrorist with donuts I would whip out maple bars topped with bacon.

http://voodoodoughnut.com/doughnuts/bacon_maple_bar.jpg

[Stanley Burrell]

Jesus Christ. You might as well be all Sega Genesis and type A, B, A, C, A, B, B to get Kano's bloodier fatality unlocked and apply that shit to your own torso.

[Back]

Jesus Christ. You might as well be all Sega Genesis and type A, B, A, C, A, B, B to get Kano's bloodier fatality unlocked and apply that shit to your own torso.

Well, I’m not the one who is up in arms about this whole thing. Talk to coffeshop obsessed Malkin.

[Stanley Burrell]

O.K.