West Virginia Primary results [Archive] - The Gemstone IV Players' Corner

Mabus

05-13-2008, 08:06 PM

I'm still not sure why they are even considering allowing those primaries to count. Wasn't Hillary the only democrat on the tickets there?
Florida and Michigan?

In Florida Obama was on the ticket, and was the only candidate to break the pledge and allow advertising there. So Obama was the only candidate to advertise in Florida, yet still lost.

Michigan is a little stickier. Obama (as well as Biden, Richardson and Edwards) withdrew his name from the ballot. The was no rule or pledge to do so. Kucinich attempted to have his name removed, but was late in asking for it. That means Kucinich, Dodd and Clinton were on the ballot. Several analysts stated at the time that those removing their names did so to deny Clinton a clear victory in the state, and thus any momentum she might build.

Obama's campaign has since fought against any revote in either state. In Michigan Tupac Hunter, a big Obama supporter, fought hard in the state senate to prevent a revote.

So Obama was on the Florida ballot, Obama broke party rules by advertising in Florida (the cable ad buy was in GA) removed his name from the Michigan ballot to deny Clinton a win and then fought against revotes in both states.

Obama has since said, "I want the Michigan delegation and the Florida delegation to be seated. And however the Democratic National Committee determines we can get that done, I'm happy to abide by those rules."

Mabus

05-13-2008, 08:13 PM

and popular votes even if they do count MI and FL.
297,772 more votes in Florida and 328,309 more votes in Michigan = 623,081.

A big win tonight and a decent win in Kentucky and she could lead in the popular vote, hence why if she gets 200k above Obama tonight why she will fight to have those states included.

landy

05-13-2008, 09:20 PM

Are you certain Obama was on the ticket in Florida? I thought Hillary was the only one for either states.

Apathy

05-13-2008, 09:23 PM

Hillary by 12%.

+Bonus Prediction: Despite a much closer race than anticipated, she will instantly spin it as huge momentum and publicly vow to campaign all the way to the convention.

Mabus

05-13-2008, 09:25 PM

Are you certain Obama was on the ticket in Florida? I thought Hillary was the only one for either states.
The Florida Democratic Party Website (http://www.fladems.com/content/w/florida_delegate_selection_to_the_2008_democratic_ national_convention) says Obama and Edwards won delegates, as well as Clinton. That pretty well means that yes, Obama was on the ballot.

Apathy

05-13-2008, 09:32 PM

Under Florida law, you can't remove your name from the ballot after declaring without officially dropping out of the race. So yeah... he was on the ballot.

edit: He was not on the MI ballot, neither was Edwards. Clinton (and some others like Kucinich) was.

Parkbandit

05-13-2008, 09:46 PM

Are you certain Obama was on the ticket in Florida? I thought Hillary was the only one for either states.

Obama was on the ballot in Florida, as he received 33% of the vote.

landy

05-13-2008, 10:03 PM

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Now I get to call the bullshit card on a friend who was telling me he was on neither card.

Mabus

05-13-2008, 11:33 PM

I have lost what little respect I had for Obama tonight.

No concession speech on WV.

A contest is a contest, and he damn well should have said "Great job, Senator Clinton. We are moving on to <name the state>." Instead he says nothing.

I have never cared for sore losers. I am sure the people of WV will not forget this in the fall.

Davenshire

05-14-2008, 12:42 AM

Mabus

05-14-2008, 12:53 AM

I know I appreciated all the concession speeches Hillary gave.
Yes, she is a good sport.

Even after beating expectations in Indiana, and losing big in North Carolina she said, "I want to commend Senator Obama and his supporters on their win in North Carolina. "

It is customary to give a victory speech for the winner, and a concession speech for the loser, of a primary. Since there was only one contest tonight there was absolutely no reason Obama could not have congratulated Clinton on her win,

Obama should have done so and maybe added something like, "Even though you did not choose me in the primary I want you to know I will stand with, and work hard for, the People of West Virginia as president.". He chose not to. It would have been both presidential and graceful. He was not.

Back

05-14-2008, 01:37 AM

I have lost what little respect I had for Obama tonight.

I get the impression that it was less than a blond cunt hair that you had left. While it may be a big deal to you I doubt anyone will even notice.

As for the MI and FL thing... even counting them, Obama still leads in delegates...

Obama
Pledged 1658.5
Super 291
Total 1949.5

Clinton
Pledged 1603.5
Super 285.5
Total 1889

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/02/ultimate-delegate-tracker.html

although the popular vote after tonight including FL and MI puts Clinton slightly (.06%) ahead.

Popular Vote (w/FL & MI)**
Obama 16,675,437 47.6%
Clinton 16,694,028 47.7%
Clinton +18,591 +0.06%

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

With the way Obama is polling in South Dakota and Oregon he can easily cinch the win in all categories. I’m basing that opinion on how the super delegates are playing out.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 03:27 AM

With the way Obama is polling in South Dakota and Oregon he can easily cinch the win in all categories. I’m basing that opinion on how the super delegates are playing out.
Not scientific, but using current data from previous elections and current poll averages. I guess I have way to much time on my hands tonight...

2004 Oregon for Kerry:
943,163
Current poll average:
53% Obama 499,876
39% Clinton 367,833

2004 Kentucky for Kerry:
712,733
60% Clinton 427,639
28% Obama 199,565

2004 South Dakota for Kerry:
149,244
46% Obama 68,652
34% Clinton 50,742

Projected:
Obama: 768,093
Clinton: 846,214

Now granted this is far from scientific, and even the average of several polls is very likely to be way off, but it does show that it is entirely possible for Clinton to end up with the majority of the popular vote from the states.

If that were to happen it would be quite the scene watching those that complained about Gore winning the popular vote, but losing, in 2000 taking the nomination from the democratic winner of the popular vote.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 04:33 AM

100% Reporting in WV

Name____ Votes______%____Del.
Clinton.......239,062.....67%.....16
Obama.........91,652.....26%......7

41%
147,410 vote gain.

County by county map of WV. (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/county/#WVDEMMAPprimary)

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 08:58 AM

My favorite part of the coverage last night was the cable 'news' outlets trying to make people of WV out to be dumb racists because they didn't vote for Obama. I never hear that conclusion being drawn for the 90% black vote for Obama though.

Clove

05-14-2008, 09:09 AM

Naw. The best was this morning on CNN when Cooter called Hillary a racist.

Kranar

05-14-2008, 09:36 AM

Now granted this is far from scientific, and even the average of several polls is very likely to be way off, but it does show that it is entirely possible for Clinton to end up with the majority of the popular vote from the states.

Not only is your analysis entirely unscientific, your percentages don't even add up to 100.

Clove

05-14-2008, 09:53 AM

Not only is your analysis entirely unscientific, your percentages don't even add up to 100.Some vote "no preference"

Back

05-14-2008, 09:56 AM

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 10:18 AM

Let me guess. You were watching FOX.

You shouldn't guess.. since you are clearly dumb.

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 10:21 AM

Naw. The best was this morning on CNN when Cooter called Hillary a racist.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/cooter.jpg.

Clove

05-14-2008, 10:38 AM

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/05/14/am.cooter.intvw.cnn?iref=videosearch

Kranar

05-14-2008, 10:43 AM

Some vote "no preference"

It's highly unlikely 10-20% of voters will vote no preference.

Gan

05-14-2008, 10:48 AM

What about this election season has been 'likely'?

Clove

05-14-2008, 10:57 AM

Actually no-preference has been pushing around 7%. It's not incomprehensible to see it over 10%. Look at their options.

Daniel

05-14-2008, 11:15 AM

I have lost what little respect I had for Obama tonight.

I, for one, am shocked.

Kranar

05-14-2008, 12:23 PM

Actually no-preference has been pushing around 7%. It's not incomprehensible to see it over 10%. Look at their options.

The highest no-preference vote I see amongst all the primaries is 6% for Idaho, with the average amongst all states being less than 1%.

The overwhelming vast majority of states do not give the option for no-preference, and of those that do, it's typically only 1% of the voters who choose it.

I am going to reiterate my point... using percentages that don't add to 100% is very fishy business.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 01:03 PM

The highest no-preference vote I see amongst all the primaries is 6% for Idaho, with the average amongst all states being less than 1%.

The overwhelming vast majority of states do not give the option for no-preference, and of those that do, it's typically only 1% of the voters who choose it.

I am going to reiterate my point... using percentages that don't add to 100% is very fishy business.
I used several sites to gather the polling data. I tried to use at least 5 seperate polls gathered in the last couple weeks, then average them. That could have a distorting effect on the poll numbers, but also dropped was John Edwards, and others still on ballots.

But anyway...
...you can see some polling numbers on this wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Democratic_Party_(United_S tates)_presidential_primaries,_2008) that if you removed those that are not Clinton, Obama, as well as the undecided and unsure, you could see that a number less then 100% would be easy to reach.

To be honest, I only did that as an exercise for myself to see how the popular vote might shake out. I was not submitting it for a paper, and even stated it was "far from scientific". I made no claims on accuracy, and am a little surprised that several posts were devoted to discussing the silly thing.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 01:14 PM

I, for one, am shocked.
When was the last primary where noone had the delegates needed to secure the nomination that the losers did not congratulate the winner?

I did have some respect for Obama. I found him to be charismatic and thought him a gentleman. I thought he had a bright political future.

He disproved that he was a gentleman last night by not congratulating Senator Clinton.

You likely disagree, and maybe you feel that the traditional congratulatory and concession speech (to an opponent the media had bashed for weeks as "done") on the evening of her stunning victory in a state was beneath him.

I feel he missed an opportunity to look graceful and presidential.

Daniel

05-14-2008, 01:19 PM

When was the last primary where noone had the delegates needed to secure the nomination that the losers did not congratulate the winner?

.

I don't know. Everyone except North Carolina?

Clove

05-14-2008, 01:22 PM

http://punditkitchen.wordpress.com/files/2008/05/political-pictures-john-mccain-thank-you-opponents.jpg

http://punditkitchen.wordpress.com/files/2008/05/political-pictures-hillary-clinton-family-better.jpg

Mabus

05-14-2008, 01:31 PM

I don't know. Everyone except North Carolina?
Clinton congratulated Obama and his supporters on the North Carolina victory.

From her speech the night of the IN and NC primaries:
"I want to commend Senator Obama and his supporters on their win in North Carolina. We are, in many ways, on the same journey. It’s a journey begun long before we were born. It is a journey by men and women who have been on a mission to perfect our union, who marched and protested, who risked everything they had to build an America that embraces us all."

Congratulatory and presidential, things Obama missed a chance to be last night.

So what is your next "snippy", yet unresearched, comment?

Gan

05-14-2008, 01:34 PM

So what is your next "snippy", yet unresearched, comment?
Careful, this could be the response...

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2540/internetseriousvq1.jpg

g++

05-14-2008, 01:35 PM

When was the last primary where noone had the delegates needed to secure the nomination that the losers did not congratulate the winner?

I did have some respect for Obama. I found him to be charismatic and thought him a gentleman. I thought he had a bright political future.

He disproved that he was a gentleman last night by not congratulating Senator Clinton.

You likely disagree, and maybe you feel that the traditional congratulatory and concession speech (to an opponent the media had bashed for weeks as "done") on the evening of her stunning victory in a state was beneath him.

I feel he missed an opportunity to look graceful and presidential.

First off, it wasn’t really a stunning victory he already conceded the state. I admit I thought more party oriented democrats would vote for Obama just to try to get Obama solidified as the winner, but granted not every one in WV punching a ticket is Karl Rove.

Congratulating Clinton right now would be a mistake, it lends credence to the idea she should stay in the race so strategically the best thing he can do is say f W .Virginia Ill take the next state and 100 more supers and this will be over.

He has to act at this point like Clinton should withdraw because many influencial democrats are already acting that way. I seriously doubt any West Virginia Democrats are going to vote McCain after voting Hilary in the Primary over manners.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 01:37 PM

Careful, this could be the response...

Great job!

So noone sees Obama not give a concession speech as a snub of Clinton? I think it really bodes ill for those that believe he will take her as his VP.

Gan

05-14-2008, 01:39 PM

Great job!

So noone sees Obama not give a concession speech as a snub of Clinton? I think it really bodes ill for those that believe he will take her as his VP.

Actually, that was a dig at Daniel. I forgot you probably dont keep up with that part of the political thread history.

:-/

Daniel

05-14-2008, 01:40 PM

Clinton congratulated Obama and his supporters on the North Carolina victory.

From her speech the night of the IN and NC primaries:
"I want to commend Senator Obama and his supporters on their win in North Carolina. We are, in many ways, on the same journey. It’s a journey begun long before we were born. It is a journey by men and women who have been on a mission to perfect our union, who marched and protested, who risked everything they had to build an America that embraces us all."

Congratulatory and presidential, things Obama missed a chance to be last night.

So what is your next "snippy", yet unresearched, comment?

I don't know. The dictionary definition of "except"?

Daniel

05-14-2008, 01:42 PM

Careful, this could be the response...

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2540/internetseriousvq1.jpg

Or how about: http://atworkandbored.com/jokes-inc/fun-pics/foot-in-mouth-1199.jpeg

It seems more appropriate.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 01:52 PM

I seriously doubt any West Virginia Democrats are going to vote McCain after voting Hilary in the Primary over manners.
ARG Poll in WV:
"13% of likely Democratic primary voters say they would never vote for Hillary Clinton in the primary and 45% of likely Democratic primary voters say they would never vote for Barack Obama in the primary."

CNN Exit Poll in WV:
"If Obama were the Democratic nominee, 36 percent of Clinton supporters would vote for him in the fall, the polls found.

But 35 percent said they'd cast their vote for McCain instead."

National Election Pool exit poll conducted by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International:
"The exit poll also found that Clinton’s supporters in West Virginia were divided over the prospects of supporting Obama if he were the Democratic nominee. Asked whether they would vote for McCain or Obama in the general election, only 38 percent of Clinton’s primary voters said they would back Obama, while 34 percent said they would vote for McCain."

g++

05-14-2008, 01:58 PM

Yes an exit poll during the primary isnt biased at all.

Kefka

05-14-2008, 01:58 PM

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 02:01 PM

I don't trust these polls of who will vote for whom for the main election since the candidate hasn't been decided yet.

All of this is just emotionally driven. People say these things to try and sway others into voting on their side so as not to vote for the other side. But frankly, other than Ilvane, I can't imagine too many people just dismissing the entire party because their candidate didn't make it. Just how I see it.

Clove

05-14-2008, 02:05 PM

You likely disagree, and maybe you feel that the traditional congratulatory and concession speech (to an opponent the media had bashed for weeks as "done") on the evening of her stunning victory in a state was beneath him.What's stunning is she finally took a state by wide margin; but in West Virginia it's all relative.

g++

05-14-2008, 02:08 PM

Gan

05-14-2008, 02:13 PM

but in West Virginia they're all relatives.

Fixed that.

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 02:14 PM

That's what he meant, dork face. :tongue:

Mabus

05-14-2008, 02:17 PM

From what I heard, he called to say congrats on her victory and she wouldn't come to the phone. He left a message instead.
He must have called at 3 AM...
;)

Mabus

05-14-2008, 02:27 PM

Not to mention they just watched 6 weeks of attack ads against Obama in a state he conceded. By the time the general rolls around these people will remember OH RIGHT I dont agree with McCain on like 9 out of 10 issues. (bolded by me)

Will he concede the state in the general election? He already has. This must be part of the "50 state strategy" he gave speeches about.

So now Obama does not need PA, OH, FL, MI, WV, KY.

I suppose he will win all those deep-red states he won in caucuses full of college students, right? Those states are suddenly going to "see the light" and all the GOP voters there will "rise up", gather their "hope" and vote for Obama, because "Yes, we can!" is their new slogan.

That must be his "path to victory" for the general election.

Dream on.

Clove

05-14-2008, 02:38 PM

I suppose he will win all those deep-red states he won in caucuses full of college students, right? Those states are suddenly going to "see the light" and all the GOP voters there will "rise up", gather their "hope" and vote for Obama, because "Yes, we can!" is their new slogan.Yup, just like all the Democrats in the states he barely lost to Hillary won't vote for him.

Gan

05-14-2008, 02:43 PM

That's what he meant, dork face. :tongue:

:blah:

:wedgie:

g++

05-14-2008, 02:44 PM

(bolded by me)

Will he concede the state in the general election? He already has. This must be part of the "50 state strategy" he gave speeches about.

So now Obama does not need PA, OH, FL, MI, WV, KY.

I suppose he will win all those deep-red states he won in caucuses full of college students, right? Those states are suddenly going to "see the light" and all the GOP voters there will "rise up", gather their "hope" and vote for Obama, because "Yes, we can!" is their new slogan.

That must be his "path to victory" for the general election.

Dream on.

Im a republican first off so I dont really care which of these communists is going to lead your brain dead asses to another mind boggling defeat. Im just pointing out that he does not need to suck every dick in West Virginia and your exit polls are horse shit.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 02:53 PM

Im a republican first off so I dont really care which of these communists is going to lead your brain dead asses to another mind boggling defeat. Im just pointing out that he does not need to suck every dick in West Virginia and your exit polls are horse shit.
I would like to congratulate you on your wonderful grasp of the issues that face the country. Your amazing usage of phrasing must truly inspire those around you. I am sure your tactics for campaigning have served you well, and possibly provided you with the little nutrition that your mind requires for its daily needs.

Oh, they are not my exit polls. Almost forget that.

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 04:48 PM

What's stunning is she finally took a state by wide margin; but in West Virginia it's all relative.

So.. now they are ignorant white incestuous racists?

Clove

05-14-2008, 04:49 PM

So.. now they are ignorant white incestuous racists?You've BEEN to West Virginia?!?!

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 04:50 PM

From what I heard, he called to say congrats on her victory and she wouldn't come to the phone. He left a message instead.

:rofl:

Where did you hear this.. moveon.org?

I agree with Mabus. Obama looked like a little bitch last night, talking about how this housing crisis reminded him of the great depression and other such ignorant comments. He had a golden opportunity to look very Presidential by congratulating Clinton on her victory.. instead, he came across like a butt sore poor sport.

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 04:54 PM

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 04:58 PM

How did he come off like a poor sport? By conceding the state and moving onto the next state? Behaving like a presidential candidate and continuing the campaign?

He probably doesn't see Hillary's win of WV as a victory or a loss for his campaign since he's still winning the race.

It's traditional for the loser to congratulate the winner. He failed to do that last night.

Not a huge deal.. just an observation. Don't get upset, you former semi-conservative. :P

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 05:02 PM

BFD. I'm so done with this democratic bullshit. I'm tired of seeing her face on the news. I'm starting to dislike all candidates.

At least I'm not a hippy. :P

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 05:06 PM

STARTING to dislike all the candidates? Are you trying to get back into the semi-conservative party?

FORGET IT!

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 05:12 PM

STARTING to dislike all the candidates? Are you trying to get back into the semi-conservative party?
Nope, because my dislike includes McCain. Wrinkled old bastard. I can see why you like him. :D

Mabus

05-14-2008, 05:12 PM

How did he come off like a poor sport?
By not giving the traditional public congratulations that is always given after a loss.

Maybe his wife wouldn't let him, who knows?

Gan

05-14-2008, 05:20 PM

Nope, because my dislike includes McCain. Wrinkled old bastard. I can see why you like him. :D

You could always vote for Ron Paul...

Or write in Mike Huckabee.

Then there's always:
http://fatherjoe.files.wordpress.com/2006/08/mckinney.jpg

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 05:21 PM

Nope, because my dislike includes McCain. Wrinkled old bastard. I can see why you like him. :D

You would have a tough time finding a single post of mine ever, where I said I like John McCain.

Daniel

05-14-2008, 05:21 PM

By not giving the traditional public congratulations that is always given after a loss.

Maybe his wife wouldn't let him, who knows?

I'm sorry.

You seem to have forgotten to respond to my post about how HIllary didn't do such a thing in any state except North Carolina.

In fact, you went into some pedantic tirade about how I was stupid because she obviously did do such a thing in North Carolina. Not withstanding the fact that that is what I said in the first place. You'd think you'd at least apologize for misquoting my words, if not actually stop spouting the same bullshit that you've been shown up for.

To each their own I guess.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 05:32 PM

I'm sorry.

You seem to have forgotten to respond to my post about how HIllary didn't do such a thing in any state except North Carolina.

In fact, you went into some pedantic tirade about how I was stupid because she obviously did do such a thing in North Carolina. Not withstanding the fact that that is what I said in the first place. You'd think you'd at least apologize for misquoting my words, if not actually stop spouting the same bullshit that you've been shown up for.

To each their own I guess.
Jesus...
...use that college education you say you have and research some shit on your own. I sometimes wonder what happened to you in Iraq; perhaps a serious head injury. You used to look for facts before you would spout off.

Here, for your benefit I will give you part of Senator Clinton's speech on Super Tuesday:
"I also want to congratulate Senator Obama for his victories tonight. And I look forward to continuing our campaign and our debate about how to lead this country better off in the next generation, because that is the work of my life - that is why I started my career fighting for abused and neglected children, children who have drawn the short straw in life, because this nation gave me every opportunity and we can do the same for every child. "

Do you want me to look up every speech and find the congratulations, or can you be a big boy and look them up yourself before spouting bullshit?

Mabus

05-14-2008, 05:35 PM

You'd think you'd at least apologize for misquoting my words,
I thought I would address this on its own.

Nowhere did I misquote you in this thread. My quoting of you was accurate.

Once again, you are a liar.

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 05:38 PM

Once again, you are a liar.

{insert Thanks Captain Obvious poster here}

I'm hijacking someone's slow ass ISP right now at work.. or I would.

Daniel

05-14-2008, 05:39 PM

Jesus...

Do you want me to look up every speech and find the congratulations, or can you be a big boy and look them up yourself before spouting bullshit?

Sure. Don't forget this one:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/12/clinton-still-no-congratulations-for-obama/

EL PASO, Texas (CNN) – For the second election night in a row, Hillary Clinton failed to acknowledge or congratulate Barack Obama after he won the day in dominating fashion.

On Tuesday in El Paso, hours after Virginia had been called for Obama, she stuck to her “Texas campaign kickoff” message and did not stray from an energetic, Lone Star-themed stump speech. She did mention Obama by name, only to chide his health care plan.

On Saturday night in Richmond, Virginia, Clinton spoke to a crowd of thousands at the state’s annual Jefferson-Jackson dinner, but she ignored Obama’s quartet of blowout primary and caucus wins that day as well (Obama also won the Maine caucuses the next day).

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 05:39 PM

Do you want me to look up every speech and find the congratulations?
Yes, please do, because I don't recall Hillary doing that every state Obama won.

Daniel

05-14-2008, 05:40 PM

I thought I would address this on its own.

Nowhere did I misquote you in this thread. My quoting of you was accurate.

Once again, you are a liar.

Lol.

Are we seriously going to play this game again?

I say, Clinton has not congratulated Obama, except in North Carolina.

You say I said that she did not congratulate him in North Carolina.

What exactly is that?

right.

Daniel

05-14-2008, 05:44 PM

Yes, please do, because I don't recall Hillary doing that every state Obama won.

Already shown to be the hypocritical lying fuck that he is.

Thanks though.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 05:44 PM

Yes, please do, because I don't recall Hillary doing that every state Obama won.
When Daniel gets enough brains to look up and understand "misquote", and gets over his tears from being shown to being a liar again, maybe you can get him to look things up for you.

Or you could look them up yourself. Novel option, I know, but you could do more then post drivel and self loath.

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 05:45 PM

We could all be bigger people and help Daniel out instead of making fun of his 'special' needs. Here, I found the Iowa speech from Clinton for him. Maybe some of you haters could take a page out of my book and help this poor victim out.

I am so proud to have run with such exceptional candidates. I congratulate Senator Obama and Senator Edwards. I thank Senator Dodd, and Senator Biden, and Governor Richardson, and Congressman Kucinich. Together, we have presented the case for change and have made it absolutely clear that America needs a new beginning.

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 05:47 PM

When Daniel gets enough brains to look up and understand "misquote", and gets over his tears from being shown to being a liar again, maybe you can get him to look things up for you.
Except that you DID misquote him. He stated that everyone of the wins weren't congratulated on EXCEPT for North Carolina. You went on to say "OMG NO, SHE CONGRATULATED OBAMA IN NORTH CAROLINA" basically validating what he said.

Or you could look them up yourself. Novel option, I know, but you could do more then post drivel and self loath.
Self loathing? Where did this come from? Oh because I called McCain a wrinkled old bastard? Sorry!!!

Mabus

05-14-2008, 05:47 PM

Already shown to be the hypocritical lying fuck that he is.

And where was this, oh mighty Daniel? Mind posting where this was?

Of course you cannot, as it did not happen.

Shall I stroke your ego until you apologize to me again?

Mabus

05-14-2008, 05:48 PM

Except that you DID misquote him. He stated that everyone of the wins weren't congratulated on EXCEPT for North Carolina. You went on to say "OMG NO, SHE CONGRATULATED OBAMA IN NORTH CAROLINA" basically validating what he said.

The quote in my post was accurate. You may not like, or agree with, my response, but the quote was accurate.

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 05:49 PM

People.. let's not fight! We have someone who needs our collective help! Here is another snipet from a Clinton concession speech. This one is from SC:

I want to congratulate Senator Obama tonight and I want to also thank the people of South Carolina for welcoming us into their homes and their communities.

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 05:50 PM

Self loathing? Where did this come from? Oh because I called McCain a wrinkled old bastard? Sorry!!!

Fucking Ageist.

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 05:51 PM

When was the last primary where noone had the delegates needed to secure the nomination that the losers did not congratulate the winner?

I don't know. Everyone except North Carolina?

Clinton congratulated Obama and his supporters on the North Carolina victory.
Oh my bad. You just don't know how to read. I'm sorry.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 05:52 PM

Oh my bad.
Apology accepted.

Keller

05-14-2008, 05:54 PM

Apology accepted.

Isn't this the EXACT same tactic you jump other people's shit for?

Have you just acclimated to the PC so now you're engaging in the same practices?

Mabus

05-14-2008, 05:58 PM

Isn't this the EXACT same tactic you jump other people's shit for?

Have you just acclimated to the PC so now you're engaging in the same practices?
When you are accused of misquoting in a post where you accurately quoted the person accusing you, and have others jump on the bandwagon full of bullshit, you begin to realize that some people are a lost cause.

In a civilized forum others would have said, "Hey, he quoted you accurately. He may not have really addressed your concerns in his post, but he did quote you accurately." and the subject would have been dropped.

Instead several posts after the initial false accusation I find myself still having to debate Daniel's lies, again.

Daniel

05-14-2008, 05:59 PM

And where was this, oh mighty Daniel? Mind posting where this was?

Sure

Sure. Don't forget this one:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/12/clinton-still-no-congratulations-for-obama/

EL PASO, Texas (CNN) – For the second election night in a row, Hillary Clinton failed to acknowledge or congratulate Barack Obama after he won the day in dominating fashion.

On Tuesday in El Paso, hours after Virginia had been called for Obama, she stuck to her “Texas campaign kickoff” message and did not stray from an energetic, Lone Star-themed stump speech. She did mention Obama by name, only to chide his health care plan.

On Saturday night in Richmond, Virginia, Clinton spoke to a crowd of thousands at the state’s annual Jefferson-Jackson dinner, but she ignored Obama’s quartet of blowout primary and caucus wins that day as well (Obama also won the Maine caucuses the next day).

Feel free to act like this never happened. You're pretty good about that.

Daniel

05-14-2008, 06:01 PM

When you are accused of misquoting in a post where you accurately quoted the person accusing you, and have others jump on the bandwagon full of bullshit, you begin to realize that some people are a lost cause.

In a civilized forum others would have said, "Hey, he quoted you accurately. He may not have really addressed your concerns in his post, but he did quote you accurately." and the subject would have been dropped.

Instead several posts after the initial false accusation I find myself still having to debate Daniel's lies, again.

:headintowall:

Tell me, oh wise one, what does the word EXCEPT mean?

Keller

05-14-2008, 06:01 PM

you begin to realize that some people are a lost cause.

Remember how you kept trying to get me to argue with you? Remember how I kept telling you I wasn't arguing? :)

I'm just sayin'.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 06:03 PM

:headintowall:

Tell me, oh wise one, what does the word EXCEPT mean?

Now you are going back and adding things to previous posts? You do know that they are timestamped with the edit, correct?

Mabus

05-14-2008, 06:06 PM

Sure

Feel free to act like this never happened. You're pretty good about that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Daniel : 05-14-2008 at 04:41 PM.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 06:18 PM

Lol.

Are we seriously going to play this game again?

I say, Clinton has not congratulated Obama, except in North Carolina.

You say I said that she did not congratulate him in North Carolina.

What exactly is that?

right.
It was AFTER this post that you went back and added the info about Virginia. I did not go back through and reread the thread to see if you had changed things, or course. I count on a certain amount of integrity from posters.

Damn dirty tactic. Caught.

g++

05-14-2008, 06:39 PM

It was posted at 4:39 and edited at 4:41, are you fucking serious? You would have to be refreshing like crazy to even read it before it was edited.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 06:45 PM

It was posted at 4:39 and edited at 4:41, are you fucking serious? You would have to be refreshing like crazy to even read it before it was edited.
It was edited after the post I referenced, which was 2 posts beyond the edited post, and the referenced post was by Daniel.

So yes, I do see editing a post after an accusation as serious.

g++

05-14-2008, 06:50 PM

Your full of shit the post he wrote at 4:40 was in no way supported by the post from 4:41. It only helped him like 20 minutes later when you said he still had not pointed out a speech....fuck it your so obtuse your not worth talking to.

I still dont think you realize that Daniel has been arguing every state EXCEPT North Carolina all along.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 06:51 PM

Your full of shit
Does that mean you are not going to use your "WV campaign tactic" on me? I am truly saddened. Truly.

g++

05-14-2008, 06:55 PM

Right, your wrong so change the subject. You never gave a good argument against my statement that it was in Obamas best interest to not congratulate Clinton you just started arguing minutia till it devolved to a front you felt more comfortable in and then insulted me personally. Way to fail.

g++

05-14-2008, 07:02 PM

Our little argument might outlast your candidate LOL

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080514/ap_on_el_pr/obama_edwards

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 07:03 PM

Now you are going back and adding things to previous posts? You do know that they are timestamped with the edit, correct?
So two minutes between the time it was originally posted to when it was edited is now a problem? Don't have an argument so all you have left is "OMG you changed your post after the fact!!!!111"?

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 07:33 PM

It was AFTER this post that you went back and added the info about Virginia. I did not go back through and reread the thread to see if you had changed things, or course. I count on a certain amount of integrity from posters.

Damn dirty tactic. Caught.

:rofl: at you for thinking Daniel has integrity. How fucking dumb are you?

Mabus

05-14-2008, 07:34 PM

Our little argument might outlast your candidate LOL

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080514/ap_on_el_pr/obama_edwards
Not my candidate, pal. Not "our" argument either. It is all yours.

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 07:37 PM

I still dont think you realize that Daniel has been arguing every state EXCEPT North Carolina all along.

I think I've posted 2 other concession speeches Clinton made that were not North Carolina. My guess is Daniel will somehow edit out "every" and put in "most" or "some" states now.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 07:38 PM

So two minutes between the time it was originally posted to when it was edited is now a problem? Don't have an argument so all you have left is "OMG you changed your post after the fact!!!!111"?
If I post, then change the post to add content after the fact, then use the edited post later to bolster my position feel free to call me on it.

The linked material was not there the first time I read through the post. He added the material afterwards, then attempted to use it to forward his position.

I understand that your feelings are hurt, but you do not have to defend his tactics.

Mabus

05-14-2008, 07:39 PM

:rofl: at you for thinking Daniel has integrity. How fucking dumb are you?
Dumb enough to attempt to post sense to some of these idiots. I admit it!

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 07:41 PM

Dumb enough to attempt to post sense to some of these idiots. I admit it!

Yea.. that's not a waste of time...

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/75028107.jpg

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 09:25 PM

If I post, then change the post to add content after the fact, then use the edited post later to bolster my position feel free to call me on it.
There was a 6 minute gap from when he edited his post to your post. He made a statement, found the information, then edited to include it. This happens here ALL the time. Get used to it, because it's not a slight against anyone. This isn't the officials where edits aren't allowed. Sometimes people go back more than 5 minutes later (like I just did OMFG I'M CHEATING!) just to reiterate or clarify a point.

The linked material was not there the first time I read through the post. He added the material afterwards, then attempted to use it to forward his position.
Sorry it takes you so long to post one sentence. That shouldn't be held against him that he found his link and edited his post in less time than it took you to post yours.

I understand that your feelings are hurt, but you do not have to defend his tactics.
No hurt feelings here. I don't gain anything for siding with Daniel on something since we do not get along at all. But if I see something that doesn't seem right, I'll point it out.

I have no allegiance to any side. If you've paid attention at all, I'm a former semi-conservative. I really could care less who "wins" here.

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 09:31 PM

I have no allegiance to any side. If you've paid attention at all, I'm a former semi-conservative. I really could care less who "wins" here.

Traitor. Turn in your R Team decoder ring.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/60316.jpg

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 09:39 PM

I melt it down to make myself this:

http://www.papaschoppers.com/ProductImages/vondutch-accessories/RN-69-THUMB.gif

Keller

05-14-2008, 09:43 PM

I melt it down to make myself this:

http://www.papaschoppers.com/ProductImages/vondutch-accessories/RN-69-THUMB.gif

Careful. He might ignore you.

CrystalTears

05-14-2008, 09:44 PM

I have big boobs. I doubt it. :D

Keller

05-14-2008, 09:47 PM

I have big boobs. I doubt it. :D

I call bullshit. We require proof.

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 09:53 PM

I melt it down to make myself this:

http://www.papaschoppers.com/ProductImages/vondutch-accessories/RN-69-THUMB.gif

Nice. <3

Clove

05-14-2008, 10:35 PM

I call bullshit. We require proof.
She really does have big boobs. All the women in Connecticut have big boobs.

Daniel

05-14-2008, 10:37 PM

Now you are going back and adding things to previous posts? You do know that they are timestamped with the edit, correct?

You do realize that I didn't change what I said, right? I edited your quote.

Nice try though.

Daniel

05-14-2008, 10:58 PM

Also,

So I don't get accused of "Editing" my post. You might want to go back and check the fact that the original post with the word "except" is not edited.

Feel free to apologize for saying that Hillary did no always congratulate Obama on his victories. You can also admit to being a lying hypocritical fuck about it too. An edit doesn't change the facts of the conversation. You were wrong, period. You can try and obfusicate the subject all you want. "Omg you edited the post before I even read and responded to it!!!11!!". However, you're still wrong.

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 11:01 PM

Daniel

05-14-2008, 11:03 PM

I stand corrected.

However, my point still stands.

Parkbandit

05-14-2008, 11:44 PM

I stand corrected.

However, my point still stands.

Point accepted.

I just think Obama missed a golden opportunity there.

Daniel

05-15-2008, 08:42 AM

Point accepted.

I just think Obama missed a golden opportunity there.

Maybe, but the reality is that you'll always have these people who hold him to a different standard, for many reasons.

Mabus' comment was OMG Barack is not fit to be president because he's a sore loser and doesn't have respect for the system. Nevermind that both candidates had done the same thing before. He then gets absolutely livid when this is pointed out to him, and then relies on the "Oh you edited your post" bullshit line to act like he somehow still made a point.

Clove

05-15-2008, 09:45 AM

Maybe, but the reality is that you'll always have these people who hold him to a different standard, for many reasons.To be fair I think Hillary Clinton supporters could say the same for her.

Keller

05-15-2008, 11:11 AM

To be fair I think Hillary Clinton supporters could say the same for her.

And George W. Bush, except in a totally different way. You have to look at the small steps he makes. Kinda like your autistic little sister.

Clove

05-15-2008, 11:36 AM

And George W. Bush, except in a totally different way. You have to look at the small steps he makes. Kinda like your autistic little sister.Female politicians face similar challenges as African American politicians.

Gan

05-15-2008, 11:52 AM

Female politicians face similar challenges as African American politicians.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3/3strangedays/hillary.jpg

Kefka

05-15-2008, 12:15 PM

Let's keep on topic everyone! The subject matter is VERY IMPORTANT!

I have big boobs. I doubt it. :D

How you doin, CT? :)

Parkbandit

05-15-2008, 12:25 PM

Let's keep on topic everyone! The subject matter is VERY IMPORTANT!

How you doin, CT? :)

Holy shit, I agree with Kefka in a political thread.

Dear CT, SHOW US UR BOOBIES!

( . )( . )

Keller

05-15-2008, 12:35 PM

I have big boobs. I doubt it. :D

You were so right . . . .

Holy shit, I agree with Kefka in a political thread.

Dear CT, SHOW US UR BOOBIES!

( . )( . )

Parkbandit

05-15-2008, 12:38 PM

No Dustin, I won't show you my cock.

Keller

05-15-2008, 12:56 PM

No Dustin, I won't show you my cock.

Do you have tourettes?

Parkbandit

05-15-2008, 01:02 PM

No means no. Stop begging.

Keller

05-15-2008, 01:05 PM

No means no. Stop begging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2spZ-NDfS4&feature=related

Mabus

05-15-2008, 01:06 PM

I stand corrected.

Wow!

You still used an edited post, edited after you had already posted another post, in an attempt to bolster your point, and you lied about "misquoting".

The words you attribute about how I felt about Obama's lack of congratulating Clinton ("Mabus' comment was OMG Barack is not fit to be president because he's a sore loser and doesn't have respect for the system") are also incorrect, and if they are an attempt at quoting me, well look up the term you falsely accused me of earlier and apply that to yourself.

I have never stated that Obama is unfit to be president. I have even told people months ago that all the remaining major-party candidates were all qualified. What I have been pointing out is the BS about how Obama is "better" or "different" or "a new kind of politician". He is the same as the rest, and his lack of a congratulations helps prove it.

If he had stepped up earlier and said, "We need Florida and Michigan in November. I call on the rules committee to recognize half the delegates for both states." or supported revote efforts in those states, I would have thought differently of him. If after WV he would have said, "I wish to congratulate Senator Clinton and her supporters on their victory in West Virginia, and though we did not win there I look forward to serving the state as president." he would have shown himself to be a better man. He did neither.

Your argument of that Senator Clinton may not have congratulated Obama a time or two actually bolsters the argument that he is no better then her. Obama is just another politician.

BigWorm

05-15-2008, 01:48 PM

It was AFTER this post that you went back and added the info about Virginia. I did not go back through and reread the thread to see if you had changed things, or course. I count on a certain amount of integrity from posters.

Damn dirty tactic. Caught.

There's not an edit timestamp on Daniel's OP.

lrn2read

BigWorm

05-15-2008, 01:49 PM

And I forgot to ::rofl:: at this:

I count on a certain amount of integrity from posters.

yeah, so does backlash. You're in great company.

BigWorm

05-15-2008, 01:50 PM

Female politicians face similar challenges as African American politicians.

Sniper fire?

BigWorm

05-15-2008, 01:51 PM

No means no. Stop begging.

Projection much?

Keller

05-15-2008, 01:53 PM

Projection much?

He got frustrated that I wasn't bothered by him running around posting a quote he's saved for the last 5 months. He's trying new tactics.

Daniel

05-15-2008, 01:59 PM

Wow!

You still used an edited post, edited after you had already posted another post, in an attempt to bolster your point, and you lied about "misquoting".

Lol.

You do realize that I didn't change any word in my post right? For the second time, I changed your quote. I originally quoted your entire post, but then I saw that CT had responded, but only included the relevant portion. I then decided that was a better way to present and edited it out your words *only*.

Feel free to relate what you think I said originally in that post. Then please explain how that effected you despite the fact that you didn't respond for 5 minutes after it was edited.

Or, just don't bother.

It's sad that you have to lie and make shit up to salvage a semblence of intelligence. It's not working through. Go back to the drawing board.

Daniel

05-15-2008, 02:00 PM

Female politicians face similar challenges as African American politicians.

Do the current voting patterns of individuals fall along gender lines?

Clove

05-15-2008, 02:05 PM

Do the current voting patterns of individuals fall along gender lines?Good question and I don't know about voting patterns, I do know that female executives and national politicians are about as rare as African American executives and politicians. Coincidence?

Daniel

05-15-2008, 03:51 PM

Good question and I don't know about voting patterns, I do know that female executives and national politicians are about as rare as African American executives and politicians. Coincidence?

I don't think it's a coincidence at all.

However, I would conjecture that race is more of a factor for Obama then Hillary's gender is for her. If it was anyone BUT Hillary Clinton or a few select other people you'd have the same problems. I think.

Clove

05-15-2008, 04:20 PM

I don't think it's a coincidence at all.

However, I would conjecture that race is more of a factor for Obama then Hillary's gender is for her. If it was anyone BUT Hillary Clinton or a few select other people you'd have the same problems. I think.We can debate on who has the bigger disadvantage and while Hillary may be an exceptional example (among females) my point still stands- she's still facing the disadvantage of being a minority politician, just like Obama.

Back

05-15-2008, 04:26 PM

It’s interesting that America is the one new country in the history of the world that has not had a female leader.

Mabus

05-15-2008, 04:27 PM

It's sad that you have to lie and make shit up to salvage a semblence of intelligence.
Where is the "lie" that I supposedly told? There is none.

Where did I "make shit up"? I didn't.

Add two more to your bag of lies. I imagine that is not a record for a thread for you, as you seem to lie frequently.

You admit to changing the post. Of course that is a fact you cannot deny. You then attempted to use an edited post later to bolster a point. Bad form on any forum.

No one can know what you edited in the post you attempted to use to bolster your point, except you. Quite convenient.

You falsely accused me of misquoting you, then are unable to point to a post where the words of you were posted by me, either in quote tags or quotation marks, that were inaccurate. Instead of admitting that you were not misquoted you take off on a sidetrack.

Come now Daniel, be a man and "'fess up" to your lies and infantile tactics, like when you had to apologize for lying about me before.

You will feel better afterward. Honest.

Mabus

05-15-2008, 04:32 PM

There's not an edit timestamp on Daniel's OP.

lrn2read
Maybe you should read the whole thread before spouting about things you do not know. The post that was altered, and then used in an attempt to bolster a point, was pointed out in a previous post.

Others agree it was edited, though time considerations were brought up in defense. Daniel has even agreed that he did edit the post.

So, my friend, it is you that should "lrn2read".

CrystalTears

05-15-2008, 04:35 PM

Where did I "make shit up"? I didn't.
When you said he added information to a post previously made to strengthen his argument after you posted, which is untrue. It was edited 2 minutes later to shorten your quote in his post, not to add more information. That was all already in there. I saw it. I can read.

You admit to changing the post. Of course that is a fact you cannot deny. You then attempted to use an edited post later to bolster a point. Bad form on any forum.
But the information he kept referring to was always in his post. Just because you don't remember it doesn't make it less true.

No one can know what you edited in the post you attempted to use to bolster your point, except you. Quite convenient.
No I said it was there from the beginning and you've been crying like a skinned-knee child acting as though I'm protecting my lover or something. You don't want to believe me, that's fine, but since all we have is your word against his and I saw his post clearly, I'm taking his word.

You falsely accused me of misquoting you, then are unable to point to a post where the words of you were posted by me, either in quote tags or quotation marks, that were inaccurate. Instead of admitting that you were not misquoted you take off on a sidetrack.
You're right, he should have just said you don't know how to read and you responded incorrectly.

Others agree it was edited, though time considerations were brought up in defense. Daniel has even agreed that he did edit the post.
He never denied that he edited the post. He just stated that all he changed was your quote. I'm not sure what you're not getting.

At this point I don't even know what your argument is anymore. That he found the information you asked him to produce? That he edited a post? I have no fucking clue, but it's just a ruse to divert the real debate which you lost at, it seems.

Neither Clinton nor Obama have congratulated the other for every state the other has won. A couple here and there but if it was customary, they've both failed.

Go you, you've proven he's a politician. Great job.

Clove

05-15-2008, 04:41 PM

It’s interesting that America is the one new country in the history of the world that has not had a female leader.Fuck, not this again...

Keller

05-15-2008, 04:43 PM

Fuck, not this again...

Leave the e-tard alone. Let him play in the sandbox.

Clove

05-15-2008, 04:46 PM

Leave the e-tard alone. Let him play in the sandbox.Thanks Keller, that actually does make me feel better. But not as good as:

Back, STFU!

Keller

05-15-2008, 04:48 PM

Thanks Keller, that actually does make me feel better. But not as good as:

Back, STFU!

It is surprising that he didn't learn the first time he made a wildly vague and hyperbolic assertion. Maybe, "Back, STFU!" would be in his best interests.

CrystalTears

05-15-2008, 04:50 PM

Shhhh! I'm waiting for Mabus to come back and yell at me for editing my post 4 minutes later and for defending Daniel.

Work is making me nuts at the moment. I need the entertainment.

Mabus

05-15-2008, 04:50 PM

When you said he added information to a post previously made to strengthen his argument after you posted, which is untrue. It was edited 2 minutes later to shorten your quote in his post, not to add more information. That was all already in there. I saw it. I can read.
Do you have the original post saved? No, of course you do not. You have no facts to back up the statement.

He has admitted to editing the post. It was not made up that he did edit the post.

But the information he kept referring to was always in his post. Just because you don't remember it doesn't make it less true.
The information was added after I read it.

And just because you wish to defend him does not make his statements true.

The post was edited, then used in an attempt to bolster an opinion later. Bad forum form anywhere intelligent people post. That may be a lost cause on you.

No I said it was there from the beginning and you've been crying like a skinned-knee child acting as though I'm protecting my lover or something.
What you and the great liar Daniel do privately is of no concern to me.

You don't want to believe me, that's fine, but since all we have is your word against his and I saw his post clearly, I'm taking his word.
From your previous statement, and the name calling (the "a skinned-knee child" specifically) I could understand why.

You're right, he should have just said you don't know how to read and you responded incorrectly.
Instead he falsely accused me of misquoting.

At least you admit he was incorrect now.

Neither Clinton nor Obama have congratulated the other for every state the other has won. A couple here and there but if it was customary, they've both failed.
I had asked "When was the last primary where noone had the delegates needed to secure the nomination that the losers did not congratulate the winner?" I did not state that everyone has always congratulated everyone else on every race.

You are correct. I cannot find a Clinton speech congratulating Obama after Virginia. That was a failure of tradition on her part.

Obama is the clear front runner, likely nominee and media darling. If he wants to be president he should hold himself above his opponents, not sink to their level.

If you are trying to say it was a "good thing" that Obama did not offer a congratulations, and a hand toward WV, after Clinton's victory there I would certainly be interested in the reasons why you believe so.

Go you, you've proven he's a politician. Great job.
To listen to the Obamaniacs he is no such thing. They hold him above all others before. Even Daniel reluctantly had to admit that Obama was like other politicians after Obama "threw Wright under the bus".

Daniel

05-15-2008, 04:51 PM

At this point I don't even know what your argument is anymore. That he found the information you asked him to produce? That he edited a post? I have no fucking clue, but it's just a ruse to divert the real debate which you lost at, it seems.

Bingo.

Mabus you should just stop posting in this thread. Act like this didn't happen and try again at a later date.

I know you feel like you have to keep going because I called you out on your favorite tactic, but seriously: This is not the argument you want to keep going. You look like a complete retard.

Daniel

05-15-2008, 04:52 PM

Do you have the original post saved? No, of course you do not. You have no facts to back up the statement.

".

So, what did it say?

What did I trick you into thinking was there, but wasn't?

Walk us through it please.

Mabus

05-15-2008, 04:54 PM

Shhhh! I'm waiting for Mabus to come back and yell at me for editing my post 4 minutes later and for defending Daniel.

Work is making me nuts at the moment. I need the entertainment.
While I am typing, and did not "yell", I am glad to hear that our discussion is providing a distraction from your work.
:)

CrystalTears

05-15-2008, 04:55 PM

Do you have the original post saved? No, of course you do not. You have no facts to back up the statement.
Neither do you.

He has admitted to editing the post. It was not made up that he did edit the post.

The information was added after I read it.
No, it wasn't. But whatever. I'll let Daniel continue to bicker trivialities with you. It's getting old and this wasn't as entertaining as I'd hoped.

Keller

05-15-2008, 04:55 PM

Did someone miss their afternoon nap?

Clove

05-15-2008, 04:58 PM

Seriously Mabus, you're incrementally transforming into Tsa'ah. Have some delicious hot tea and take a breath. People edit their posts here all the time. I'm a huge offender (it drives Tsa'ah nuts). Most of the time it's to fix a grammatical error or to express a point more clearly.

If he deleted a statement that you responded to or otherwise significantly altered the content of his original post, by all means explain. Otherwise, move on.

Mabus

05-15-2008, 05:01 PM

Mabus you should just stop posting in this thread. Act like this didn't happen and try again at a later date.
When did you become a moderator?

Is this a new "big one" for you?

I know you feel like you have to keep going because I called you out on your favorite tactic,
My "favorite tactic" during this monstrosity of a "debate" has been pointing out the lies that you tell, my boy.

This is not the argument you want to keep going. You look like a complete retard.
I never asked for you to falsely accuse me of misquoting. I attempted to defend myself against your BS, and you side-track and edit posts.

As to the "retard" comment...
...if you think I give a rat's ass about how you or anyone else on this board views me you are more of an idiot then I thought you were.

I post my opinions on items. I am not out for some "forum points" or "score!" hits that many here attempt to achieve.

I do defend against idiots, liars and assholes, which means I often get to talk to you, Daniel.

Back

05-15-2008, 05:03 PM

http://knitemare.org/cats/serious_cat.jpg

Keller

05-15-2008, 05:06 PM

Did Mabus miss his afternoon nap?

See, I edited this one for clarification.

Daniel

05-15-2008, 05:15 PM

I never asked for you to falsely accuse me of misquoting. I attempted to defend myself against your BS, and you side-track and edit posts.

Lol. Irony.

I'll ask you for the third time: What did my edited post say or omit?

Mabus

05-15-2008, 06:04 PM

Lol. Irony.
Even after another poster admits that yes, you did falsely accuse me of misquoting, you continue on. That is ironic and moronic.

Have you admitted you were wrong about me misquoting you? No. Have you went off on a sidetrack? Yes.

I'll ask you for the third time: What did my edited post say or omit?
You could ask a hundred times.

The point is simple: Using edited posts to bolster a position on a forum is wrong. I am sure a "college educated" person like you can understand that, correct?

Just for your sake I should address that link you posted.

Let's look at some of the comments on that "unbiased" link:

"Apparently you choose to post only the negative comments about Hillary. Twice I have tried to add comments but have not been able to. Your so called news station is obviously one sided so you should now call yourselves a talk show with no more credibility than the Jerry Springer Show."

"IT IS VERY OBVIOUS THAT CNN FAVORS OBAMA…..How much CNN? This is a on sense political ticker. I am not for anybody but for viewers sake MEDIA should be in the middle not favoring anyone. That should be the guideline and standards the media should follow."

That's right. People attempted to post comments to this "unbiased" blog and could not. They also noted how when Obama did not congratulate Clinton that CNN did not post such a blog.

Comments on that blog are of course now closed.

Now I have addressed your little side-track rant twice. Once in a post to another poster (where I stated I could not find a link to a Clinton congratulatory speech after Virginia), and then the possible bias of the actual link here.
It has also been shown that Clinton has congratulated Obama on several occasions.

Satisfied?

Now admit you falsely accused me of misquoting.

Then maybe we can get to the "possibly why" Obama would not congratulate her, and if it has any future implications (no VP offer to Clinton, hurt feelings of Clinton during November campaign, Ms. Obama forcing him not to, etc.).

Or you could side-track, lie, falsely accuse and use edited posts in an attempt to bolster your opinion.

CrystalTears

05-15-2008, 06:36 PM

And yet you still haven't answered the question stating what was different about his edited post that you're so offended by.

Daniel

05-15-2008, 06:41 PM

Even after another poster admits that yes, you did falsely accuse me of misquoting, you continue on. That is ironic and moronic.

Have you admitted you were wrong about me misquoting you? No. Have you went off on a sidetrack? Yes.

You could ask a hundred times.

The point is simple: Using edited posts to bolster a position on a forum is wrong. .

Don't worry I will. You keep making shit up about what I did, and can't even explain it.

That shows a sad sad individual. You can't win an argument so you accuse them of things that never happened.

Pathetic really.

Daniel

05-15-2008, 06:45 PM

.

Let's look at some of the comments on that "unbiased" link:

"Apparently you choose to post only the negative comments about Hillary. Twice I have tried to add comments but have not been able to. Your so called news station is obviously one sided so you should now call yourselves a talk show with no more credibility than the Jerry Springer Show."

"IT IS VERY OBVIOUS THAT CNN FAVORS OBAMA…..How much CNN? This is a on sense political ticker. I am not for anybody but for viewers sake MEDIA should be in the middle not favoring anyone. That should be the guideline and standards the media should follow."

That's right. People attempted to post comments to this "unbiased" blog and could not. They also noted how when Obama did not congratulate Clinton that CNN did not post such a blog.

Comments on that blog are of course now closed.

Now I have addressed your little side-track rant twice. Once in a post to another poster (where I stated I could not find a link to a Clinton congratulatory speech after Virginia), and then the possible bias of the actual link here.
It has also been shown that Clinton has congratulated Obama on several occasions.

Satisfied?

.

Since this is a different thought:

Wait... What?

What the fuck do comments on a website have to do with a factual argument? You said that Obama was somehow non worthy of being president because he did not congratulation Clinton.

I point out that Clinton has not congratulated Obama on numerous occasions. I showed you proof, to which you have to response.

Instead, you use comments on the same page, which have absolutely *NOTHING* to do with the facts being presented.

Cnn is biased? So the fuck what?

You find me a concession speech from Virginia or any of the states mentioned in the article and we'll talk.

There has to be some unbiased internet source right?

BigWorm

05-15-2008, 08:06 PM

Maybe you should read the whole thread before spouting about things you do not know. The post that was altered, and then used in an attempt to bolster a point, was pointed out in a previous post.

Others agree it was edited, though time considerations were brought up in defense. Daniel has even agreed that he did edit the post.

So, my friend, it is you that should "lrn2read".

Uh.... OP = original post, as in the first one where he said "every state except NC", to which you responded with "u r wrong, he did it in NC"

Parkbandit

05-15-2008, 08:20 PM

Don't worry I will. You keep making shit up about what I did, and can't even explain it.

I'm lik 100% positive you are not one to talk about making things up.

Daniel

05-15-2008, 08:22 PM

Oh yea? You really want to get into this discussion again?

Okay. What have I made up there champ?

Parkbandit

05-15-2008, 08:37 PM

Oh yea? You really want to get into this discussion again?

Okay. What have I made up there champ?

Is this where you get The E to play 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon to say I posted that racism doesn't exist? I hope so, because that shit is funny!

I'm lik 100% positive it's funny... chump.

Daniel

05-15-2008, 08:41 PM

So, what would this be? Like the 16th time I've asked you to explain where you think racism still exists in America?

BigWorm

05-15-2008, 08:43 PM

So, what would this be? Like the 16th time I've asked you to explain where you think racism still exists in America?

Reverse racism, duh. Only white people understand the struggles one must endure to be white in America.

Parkbandit

05-15-2008, 08:43 PM

So, what would this be? Like the 16th time I've asked you to explain where you think racism still exists in America?

If that's the case, then this will be the 17th time I've asked for an apology for you claiming I posted that there is no racism. You remember.. the one where you were lik 100% positive I said racism doesn't exist?

Daniel

05-15-2008, 08:44 PM

Why would I apologize for saying something that is true. If you want me to apologize, then by all means..prove me wrong.

Parkbandit

05-15-2008, 08:54 PM

Why would I apologize for saying something that is true. If you want me to apologize, then by all means..prove me wrong.

I'm lik 100% positive you said you hate jews.

Prove me wrong.

See how stupid you sound now?

Daniel

05-15-2008, 09:02 PM

You edited your post!!!!11!!

but no. Seriously, the difference would be that I've never said anything that would lead a reasonable person to assume that.

Parkbandit

05-15-2008, 09:09 PM

You edited your post!!!!11!!

but no. Seriously, the difference would be that I've never said anything that would lead a reasonable person to assume that.

Prove me wrong.

You seem to be twisting in the wind in 3 topics right now. Do you need Dustin's cell phone number to call him for help? I'll be back in about 3-4 hours.. I DO hope you will have something of substance when I return.

Daniel

05-15-2008, 09:46 PM

Prove me wrong.

You seem to be twisting in the wind in 3 topics right now. Do you need Dustin's cell phone number to call him for help? I'll be back in about 3-4 hours.. I DO hope you will have something of substance when I return.

Twisting in the wind? Oookay.

In any event, I hope you didn't miss the senior citizens special at sizzler.

Keller

05-15-2008, 10:24 PM

Prove me wrong.

You seem to be twisting in the wind in 3 topics right now. Do you need Dustin's cell phone number to call him for help? I'll be back in about 3-4 hours.. I DO hope you will have something of substance when I return.

Or I can give you Mike's phone number so you can sign him up for every telemarketer list you want.

Parkbandit

05-16-2008, 12:44 AM

Twisting in the wind? Oookay.

In any event, I hope you didn't miss the senior citizens special at sizzler.

Damn.. still didn't prove me wrong. By not proving me wrong, clearly you must be an anti-Semite.

Tsa`ah

05-16-2008, 12:46 AM

Learn to fucking read Mabus ... and get your facts straight for once.

The first time, and only time, Obama fails to congratulate Clinton (that I'm aware of) you jump on it with the assumption that Clinton has been doing it all along. I hate to burst your bubble but Clinton has snubbed Obama more than she has congratulated him.

Daniel has pointed that out here (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/12/clinton-still-no-congratulations-for-obama/), but that wasn't the first time.

She didn't congratulate him on his sweep of the Potomac primaries (that's two snubs over five wins) ... in fact, after IA ... anything resembling a congratulatory mention to Obama was non-existent ... or are you forgetting Super Tuesday all together?

Mabus

05-16-2008, 01:45 AM

Learn to fucking read Mabus ... and get your facts straight for once.
Wow! great way to enter a thread.

I hope you have read all the posts, and are not just here to spew bullshit like the above.

The first time, and only time, Obama fails to congratulate Clinton (that I'm aware of) you jump on it with the assumption that Clinton has been doing it all along. I hate to burst your bubble but Clinton has snubbed Obama more than she has congratulated him.

Prove it. Simple. Break it down for me, oh great brown dung!

Daniel has pointed that out here (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/12/clinton-still-no-congratulations-for-obama/), but that wasn't the first time.
Daniel also has lied in multiple threads.

I addressed that link, twice already, as I stated in my last post.

Yes, Clinton, that great steelie-eyed whore of Babylon, has dissed the media's chosen-one on his Virginia win! She should be dragged screaming from her next speech and made to supplicate to his hope-liness.

But Obama did what was right and proper for being a front runner and not congratulating her, or reaching out to the people of West Virginia after Clinton's victory...

You have a point here?

She didn't congratulate him on his sweep of the Potomac primaries (that's two snubs over five wins) ...
Oh, woe is her!

in fact, after IA ... anything resembling a congratulatory mention to Obama was non-existent ...

Really?
From her speech after Iowa caucuses:
"I am so proud to have run with such exceptional candidates. I congratulate Senator Obama and Senator Edwards. I thank Senator Dodd and Senator Biden and Governor Richardson and Congressman Kucinich. Together we have presented the case for change and have made it absolutely clear that America needs a new beginning. "
(bold my own)

or are you forgetting Super Tuesday all together?
Truly?

From Clinton's speech following Super Tuesday:
"I also want to congratulate Senator Obama for his victories tonight. And I look forward to continuing our campaign and our debate about how to lead this country better off in the next generation, because that is the work of my life - that is why I started my career fighting for abused and neglected children, children who have drawn the short straw in life, because this nation gave me every opportunity and we can do the same for every child."
(bold my own)

So are you going to "learn to fucking read" now, and apologize for misleading the good people of the forums?

Of course not. Join Daniel in the losers' circle.

Mabus

05-16-2008, 01:49 AM

You keep making shit up about what I did, and can't even explain it.
I can explain it very simply.

You stated I misquoted you. You lied. That is not "making shit up" it is stating the truth.

Mabus

05-16-2008, 02:00 AM

What the fuck do comments on a website have to do with a factual argument?
I read through the link you posted. I then posted more from the same page of the link. Now you no longer like the link?

The comments are from people that had comments deleted because they questioned the bias in the blog, or ones that pointed out just how biased the reporting was.

If you want to post links but not consider the whole page then state so.

You said that Obama was somehow non worthy of being president because he did not congratulation Clinton.
It was a snub, plain and simple.

He, as a front runner should have congratulated her and reached out to the people of West Virginia. He did neither.

Maybe he is to good for all those small town people "clinging" to their political beliefs. They will remember in November, believe that or not.

I point out that Clinton has not congratulated Obama on numerous occasions. I showed you proof,
You showed me each and every speech she did not congratulate him on? Numerous occasions? Have the link?

to which you have to response.
Pardon?

You find me a concession speech from Virginia or any of the states mentioned in the article and we'll talk.?
I have already stated it, but let me state it again:
"I cannot find a Clinton speech from the night of the Virginia primary congratulating Obama."

See? Already addressed in a previous post and stated again!

Now apologize for falsely accusing me of misquoting you, or be the liar you have shown yourself to be. Then you can go sit in the losers' circle with Tsa`ah and jerk.

Keller

05-16-2008, 02:27 AM

Do windbags ever run out of wind?

Mabus

05-16-2008, 02:47 AM

Do windbags ever run out of wind?You keep posting, so I would have to guess "no".

Back

05-16-2008, 02:54 AM

I think Mabus is afraid of Obama.

Mabus

05-16-2008, 03:13 AM

I think Mabus is afraid of Obama.
No, I am not. I have already stated why I feel he is not ready for the office of president. After looking over the electoral map and numbers I highly doubt he will even be elected.

During the GW presidency I realize the remarkable resiliency of this great nation and do not believe that Obama, if elected, could harm it for the long term. Just last week during a conversation about GW I stated "The republic has survived". If it can survive GW it can survive Obama (who I feel is easily every bit as qualified, if not more so, as GW).

Back

05-16-2008, 03:16 AM

If it can survive GW it can survive Obama (who I feel is easily every bit as qualified, if not more so, as GW).

This is where you and I agree.

Parkbandit

05-16-2008, 08:51 AM

Learn to fucking read Mabus ... and get your facts straight for once.

Remember that time when you posted that you ONLY attack someone in a thread when they have attacked first.. that you never initiate it?

It made me laugh that day.. and gave me a chuckle today.

Daniel

05-16-2008, 08:54 AM

I can explain it very simply.

You stated I misquoted you. You lied. That is not "making shit up" it is stating the truth.

Are you this dense? The "Shit" you are making up is the part about me "editing" my post in order to catch you off guard.

You got shown up, and instead of being like woa..I got shown up you go on some ridiculous diatribe about how I have no integrity and showed bad form by editing my post, *which is a complete fabrication*

That is pathetic, but not as pathetic as you continuing to go on like you have any sort of point to make. You've been shown to be a hypocrite in your condemnation of Obama. Just give it up.

Tsa`ah

05-16-2008, 09:46 AM

Wow! great way to enter a thread.

I hope you have read all the posts, and are not just here to spew bullshit like the above.

You would be the expert at this point no?

Prove it. Simple. Break it down for me, oh great brown dung!

This tactic doesn't work so well ... just ask around. If you can't be bothered to dig it out yourself, you probably shouldn't bother spewing that spew that you spew.

Daniel also has lied in multiple threads.

Umm ... I think you've been trying that allegation for several pages and everyone but PB is laughing at you over it. Just a little FYI .... when PB is your only cheerleader and the rest of the squad has left him to it solo ... you're claim is fucked.

I addressed that link, twice already, as I stated in my last post.

Addressed it ... how? Effectively? Not by any stretch of the definition.

Yes, Clinton, that great steelie-eyed whore of Babylon, has dissed the media's chosen-one on his Virginia win! She should be dragged screaming from her next speech and made to supplicate to his hope-liness.

Well since your reading is obviously impaired, maybe you should just listen/watch her post primary speeches in sequential order.

But Obama did what was right and proper for being a front runner and not congratulating her, or reaching out to the people of West Virginia after Clinton's victory...

Obama has been the high road candidate from the start .... you have one instance where he didn't congratulate her on a win. Honestly he's probably gone above and beyond what anyone on this board would have considering the "kitchen sink" campaign Clinton embarked upon after SC.

Really?
From her speech after Iowa caucuses:
"I am so proud to have run with such exceptional candidates. I congratulate Senator Obama and Senator Edwards. I thank Senator Dodd and Senator Biden and Governor Richardson and Congressman Kucinich. Together we have presented the case for change and have made it absolutely clear that America needs a new beginning. "
(bold my own)

At what point do you start re-reading a post before you start a reply? Where did I state that she did not offer Obama a deserved congratulation after his IA win? Go back and read my post again champ.

From Clinton's speech following Super Tuesday:
"I also want to congratulate Senator Obama for his victories tonight. And I look forward to continuing our campaign and our debate about how to lead this country better off in the next generation, because that is the work of my life - that is why I started my career fighting for abused and neglected children, children who have drawn the short straw in life, because this nation gave me every opportunity and we can do the same for every child."
(bold my own)

Ya, my bad for not remembering her tagging it on the end of her speech as an after thought. Maybe watch the speech and catch the subtleties.

Obama has led every concession speech (minus one) with exactly that .... congratulating and offering praise to the competitor for the win. It's called losing with grace and acknowledging the superior campaign of that specific event(s).

So are you going to "learn to fucking read" now, and apologize for misleading the good people of the forums?

I think you need to step off the spin machine, get your balance ... and then examine your statement.

Of course not. Join Daniel in the losers' circle.

Is this winner/loser situation something you seek for some sort of self validation ... on an internet message board? At this point I think it would be best if I spared your fragile ego.

Remember that time when you posted that you ONLY attack someone in a thread when they have attacked first.. that you never initiate it?

It made me laugh that day.. and gave me a chuckle today.

I think you have comprehension issues. This isn't a revelation by any stretch as you have had years of establishing this fact ... I just have to remind myself from time to time.

TheEschaton

05-16-2008, 12:44 PM

This thread is shit. Are people really arguing about the importance of congratulating your opponent? Seriously? It's "rude" to not congratulate? This is a person who will have their finger on the button - I'm more concerned with other issues, like whether they'd ever actually push the button, and under what circumstances.

-TheE-

Mabus

05-16-2008, 05:24 PM

This tactic doesn't work so well ... just ask around. If you can't be bothered to dig it out yourself, you probably shouldn't bother spewing that spew that you spew.
I, and others, have provided links to several speeches with Clinton congratulating Obama.

I was asked to provide examples of Clinton giving such speeches. Some people, yourself included, stated specific states where this supposedly did not happen. For some of those states I, and others, have provided the text from those staes where Clinton did congratulate Obama.

You stated "The first time, and only time, Obama fails to congratulate Clinton (that I'm aware of) ..."

I did not bring up the # of Obama speeches where he congratulated Clinton in my post to you. You brought it up.

All that is asked for here, this "tactic" as you call it, is that you also provide proof for your statement.

Provide proof, or use unsubstantiated claims.

Obama has been the high road candidate from the start .... you have one instance where he didn't congratulate her on a win.
One in which he is the presumed nominee, and could damn well use winning the state in November. This could mean many things. It could be just a lapse by his staff at organizing the media event, venue, ad speech. I doubt that. To me it shows either a lack of sound judgement, or a willful belief that he can win without West Virginia in the general election.

Where did I state that she did not offer Obama a deserved congratulation after his IA win?

To quote you:
"in fact, after IA ... anything resembling a congratulatory mention to Obama was non-existent ..."

Ya, my bad for not remembering her tagging it on the end of her speech as an after thought.
To quote you again:
"She didn't congratulate him on his sweep of the Potomac primaries (that's two snubs over five wins) ... in fact, after IA ... anything resembling a congratulatory mention to Obama was non-existent ... or are you forgetting Super Tuesday all together?"

You were incorrect on IA and Super Tuesday. Hardly an "afterthought", as there were 3 paragraphs, and 2 "farewell remarks", to the prewritten speech that came after the congratulatory remarks on Super Tuesday. It was in the 3rd paragraph of her speech in IA, in case you were wondering.

Admit your mistake.

If this is not what you're saying in the quoted text, then break it down for a poor ignorant fool.

Obama has led every concession speech (minus one) with exactly that .... congratulating and offering praise to the competitor for the win.
Prove it. I know, you cannot, or will not, so asking you to prove unsupported claims is mute.

It's called losing with grace and acknowledging the superior campaign of that specific event(s).
I would agree, insofar as Obama did nothing after West Virginia that could be called "losing with grace".

Glad we can agree.

CrystalTears

05-16-2008, 05:32 PM

g++

05-16-2008, 05:35 PM

Masturbating > Staring at Wall> Talking to Mabus

Mabus

05-16-2008, 05:45 PM

Can we move on from this already?
As soon as Daniel admits to falsely accusing me of msiquoting, sure!

Mabus

05-16-2008, 05:47 PM

Masturbating > Staring at Wall> Talking to Mabus
I know you enjoy reading my writing. I can understand that. It likely makes you question your simple view of world reality.

And I am flattered that you would think of me while masterbating, truly.

But find a suitable life-partner and have a much happier life.

CrystalTears

05-16-2008, 05:50 PM

As soon as Daniel admits to falsely accusing me of msiquoting, sure!
You do realize that misquote doesn't only mean that you didn't post his quote word for word, right? It can also mean that you misinterpreted what he said and started speaking about something that he didn't say. So he has no need to apologize to you because you did misquote him.

Mabus

05-16-2008, 05:54 PM

You do realize that misquote doesn't only mean that you didn't post his quote word for word, right? It can also mean that you misinterpreted what he said and started speaking about something that he didn't say. So he has no need to apologize to you because you did misquote him.
I never misinterpreted it. I quoted him and posted my thoughts. Is everyone that posts their thoughts that doesn't ask the quoted person for permission to post "misquoting"? Of course not.

Nice try, and I was already aware of the multiple definitions well before I asked for his apology.

CrystalTears

05-16-2008, 06:01 PM

I never misinterpreted it. I quoted him and posted my thoughts. Is everyone that posts their thoughts that doesn't ask the quoted person for permission to post "misquoting"? Of course not.

Nice try, and I was already aware of the multiple definitions well before I asked for his apology.
What's the point of quoting him if you're going to ignore it and post whatever you want?

Daniel

05-16-2008, 06:08 PM

Mabus: It's probably for the best that you stopped responding to my posts, but it doesn't make you look any smarter. Oh, and don't think that it wasn't noticed.

Mabus

05-16-2008, 06:54 PM

Mabus: It's probably for the best that you stopped responding to my posts, but it doesn't make you look any smarter. Oh, and don't think that it wasn't noticed.
You are welcome to use that old "ignore" feature, pal. I respond how I want, where I want and when I want. Unless the moderators or administration of the board feels I am breaking rules, going against established policy or simply does not want me here I will continue to post.

Daniel

05-16-2008, 07:41 PM

Touche.

Please continue being a tard.

g++

05-16-2008, 08:40 PM

I know you enjoy reading my writing. I can understand that. It likely makes you question your simple view of world reality.

And I am flattered that you would think of me while masterbating, truly.

But find a suitable life-partner and have a much happier life.

My life partner can spell masturbating correctly. Im quite happy thanks.

Gan

05-17-2008, 02:48 AM

My life partner can spell masturbating correctly. Im quite happy thanks.

:rofl:

Winner

Keller

05-17-2008, 04:00 AM

I respond how I want, where I want and when I want.

I'm glad you've found your voice in these forums and no longer bitch and moan about requiring rational discourse.

I hope, in the future, you wont pucker your vag when I compare you other retarded members of our community.

Mabus

05-17-2008, 01:29 PM

I'm glad you've found your voice in these forums and no longer bitch and moan about requiring rational discourse.

I tried, but there are people here, like yourself, that will not abide by any form of intelligent debate. Instead they tend to favor shady tactics, lame attacks, false accusations, outright lies, unsupported claims and nothing resembling facts. Whenever a decent point is posted users usually skip it, side-track or focus on anything but the point. So you could call my asking why people did not stick to decent debate "bitch and moan about requiring rational discourse", as you have, but the real losers are the people that would enjoy such a reasoned debate.

CrystalTears

05-17-2008, 01:33 PM

However you're guilty of the same thing you're accusing everyone else of.

You get into a debate about something, someone says it's not true and posts facts to the contrary, you side step it by arguing another facet (in this case, the time stamp of a post) and then when that's been proven false as well, you accuse everyone else of being stupid, can't read, are liars, and incapable of following the conversation, and insist on having the last word on the subject no matter how wrong you are.

You have graduated from the Tsa`ah style of PC posting. Great job.

Mabus

05-17-2008, 01:35 PM

However you're guilty of the same thing you're accusing everyone else of.
Like Keller posted, I am assimilating to the forum rules and culture. Sad, but true. You can only try so many times before you stop posting or join in the carnage.

CrystalTears

05-17-2008, 01:37 PM

Okay so then you have no leg to stand on when you make those accusations. That would make you a hypocrite.

Or you could learn from the ones who aren't assholes in every post and stick to the topic and not do it. Just saying.

Mabus

05-17-2008, 01:45 PM

I handled this seperately, as it has some serious faults.

You get into a debate about something, someone says it's not true and posts facts to the contrary,
Nowhere, that I can remember, did I say every speech by Clinton had a congratulations to Obama in in. I was pointing out that it is customary, traditional and considered good sportsmanship to do so, and that Obama had not. The side-track that others used in this case was "Obama is great becausee he didn't, but Clinton sucks because she didn't all the time!".

you side step it by arguing another facet (in this case, the time stamp of a post)
The side-track by Daniel was was before the edited post. In any reasonable forum you do not use an edited post to bolster a point.

and then when that's been proven false as well,
The post was edited. If you have not proven that it was not then you have spoken falsely.

you accuse everyone else of being stupid, can't read, are liars, and incapable of following the conversation,
Usually this happens after they have accused me of the same. After I then step through and sdisprove what they have posted I try to quote their previous negative statements ("Learn to read", etc.) or use their own tactics (Here is what you posted, but now a post that has nothing to do with it, long posts, name calling,) against them.

and insist on having the last word on the subject no matter how wrong you are.

I had left the last comments alone until Keller posted. Then you attack me with falsehoods, and half baked ideas, and now you can feel satisfied when I respond that I am attempting to have "the last word".

May you find it entertaining and smile at your "win".

Gan

05-17-2008, 02:00 PM

You have graduated from the Tsa`ah style of PC posting. Great job.

In light of the previous post. This bears repeating.

CrystalTears

05-17-2008, 02:04 PM

Nowhere, that I can remember, did I say every speech by Clinton had a congratulations to Obama in in. I was pointing out that it is customary, traditional and considered good sportsmanship to do so, and that Obama had not. The side-track that others used in this case was "Obama is great becausee he didn't, but Clinton sucks because she didn't all the time!".
No it was more like who fucking cares if he didn't since she hardly did either.

In any reasonable forum you do not use an edited post to bolster a point.
Then leave the forum, because people edit their posts constantly around here and it's not going to change.

And I don't know how many times we have to tell you that the information he kept referring to was ALWAYS there. Granted, it can't be proven because it doesn't leave a track record of what was changed. So since neither stance can be proven, why not just leave that part of it out of it. How about you focus on the part where you asked him to show you when she didn't congratulate him and he did, regardless of when he first mentioned it.

The post was edited. If you have not proven that it was not then you have spoken falsely.
No one said that it wasn't edited. What we're saying is that you're using it as a ruse to divert the topic because the information was always there, you just refuse to admit that you just didn't see it there the first time.

I had left the last comments alone until Keller posted. Then you attack me with falsehoods, and half baked ideas, and now you can feel satisfied when I respond that I am attempting to have "the last word".

May you find it entertaining and smile at your "win".
It was never my intention to win. And nothing I said was false, since you admitted you were doing it all because it was being done to you. Nice tap dancing.

I suppose I'm bewildered that this is the first time that I recall that anyone has used the post timestamp tactic to use as an argument so I wanted to address it since I felt it was incorrect accusation.