Ohio Hospital Contests a Story Clinton Tells

[Gan]

By DEBORAH SONTAG
Over the last five weeks, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York has featured in her campaign stump speeches the story of a health care horror: an uninsured pregnant woman who lost her baby and died herself after being denied care by an Ohio hospital because she could not come up with a $100 fee.

The woman, Trina Bachtel, did die last August, two weeks after her baby boy was stillborn at O’Bleness Memorial Hospital in Athens, Ohio. But hospital administrators said Friday that Ms. Bachtel was under the care of an obstetrics practice affiliated with the hospital, that she was never refused treatment and that she was, in fact, insured.

“We implore the Clinton campaign to immediately desist from repeating this story,” said Rick Castrop, chief executive officer of the O’Bleness Health System.

Linda M. Weiss, a spokeswoman for the not-for-profit hospital, said the Clinton campaign had never contacted the hospital to check the accuracy of the story, which Mrs. Clinton had first heard from a Meigs County, Ohio, sheriff’s deputy in late February.

A Clinton spokesman, Mo Elleithee, said candidates would frequently retell stories relayed to them, vetting them when possible. “In this case, we did try but were not able to fully vet it,” Mr. Elleithee said. “If the hospital claims it did not happen that way, we respect that.”

The sheriff’s deputy, Bryan Holman, had played host to Mrs. Clinton in his home before the Ohio primary. Deputy Holman said in a telephone interview that a conversation about health care led him to relate the story of Ms. Bachtel. He never mentioned the name of the hospital that supposedly turned her away because he did not know it, he said.

Deputy Holman knew Ms. Bachtel’s story only secondhand, having learned it from close relatives of the woman. Ms. Bachtel’s relatives did not return phone calls Friday.

As Deputy Holman understood it, Ms. Bachtel had died of complications from a stillbirth after being turned away by a local hospital for her failure to pay $100 upfront.

“I mentioned this story to Senator Clinton, and she apparently took to it and liked it,” Deputy Holman said, “and one of her aides said she’d be using it at some rallies.”

Indeed, saying that the story haunted her, Mrs. Clinton repeatedly offered it as a dire example of a broken health care system. At one March rally in Wyoming, for instance, she referred to Ms. Bachtel, a 35-year-old who managed a Pizza Hut, as a young, uninsured minimum-wage worker, saying, “It hurts me that in our country, as rich and good of a country as we are, this young woman and her baby died because she couldn’t come up with $100 to see the doctor.”

Mrs. Clinton does not name Ms. Bachtel or the hospital in her speeches. As she tells it, the woman was turned away twice by a local hospital when she was experiencing difficulty with her pregnancy. “The hospital said, ‘Well, you don’t have insurance.’ She said, ‘No, I don’t.’ They said, ‘Well, we can’t see you until you give $100.’ She said, ‘Where am I going to get $100?’

“The next time she came back to the hospital, she came in an ambulance,” Mrs. Clinton continued. “She was in distress. The doctors and the nurses worked on her and couldn’t save the baby.”

Since Ms. Bachtel’s baby died at O’Bleness Memorial Hospital, the story implicitly and inaccurately accuses that hospital of turning her away, said Ms. Weiss, the spokeswoman for O’Bleness Memorial said. Instead, the O’Bleness health care system treated her, both at the hospital and at the affiliated River Rose Obstetrics and Gynecology practice, Ms. Weiss said.
The hospital would not provide details about the woman’s case, citing privacy concerns; she died two weeks after the stillbirth at a medical center in Columbus.

“We reviewed the medical and patient account records of this patient,” said Mr. Castrop, the health system’s chief executive. Any implication that the system was “involved in denying care is definitely not true.”

Although Mrs. Clinton has told the story repeatedly, it first came to the attention of the hospital after The Washington Post cited it as a staple of her stump speeches on Thursday. That brought it to the attention of The Daily Sentinel in Pomeroy, Ohio, which published an article on Friday.

Neither paper named the hospital or challenged Mrs. Clinton’s account.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/us/politics/05woman.html?_r=1&ei=5090&en=7824b4f8ea3b363d&ex=1365134400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

[Latrinsorm]

She should go back on Letterman and joke about this too. That's what I want in a leader.

[Ilvane]

Too bad the woman isn't alive to tell her side of the story.

Angela

[Ilvane]

Oh and to add..I've heard plenty of stories of people being turned away, insured or not, because they didn't have a 500 dollar deductible or a 100 dollar copayment.

It's not supposed to be done, but it happens all the time.

[Clove]

Oh and to add..I've heard plenty of stories of people being turned away, insured or not, because they didn't have a 500 dollar deductible or a 100 dollar copayment.

It's not supposed to be done, but it happens all the time.Not for emergency service you haven't.

[Methais]

Too bad the woman isn't alive to tell her side of the story.

Angela

If the woman was alive, Hillary's story and this thread wouldn't exist.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn142/Kamarada-san/1195242567263.png

[875000]

Oh and to add..I've heard plenty of stories of people being turned away, insured or not, because they didn't have a 500 dollar deductible or a 100 dollar copayment.

It's not supposed to be done, but it happens all the time.

And I've heard plenty of stories about people with their kidneys removed waking up in bathtubs filled with ice.

I don't believe those stories, either.

[Ilvane]

Actually, it sounds like a hospital covering it's ass to me.

She never mentioned the name of the patient, or the hospital in the story, from what I've read.

So, take from that what you will.

As far as people being turned away for care, yes..they have been for ER care.

My mother(who I know isn't lying), got turned away from a hospital during her heart problem, and was actually rerouted to another hospital, all because she didn't have insurance. So don't tell me it doesn't happen. kthx

Angela

[Bobmuhthol]

You're fucking retarded, Ilvane. Shut up.

[Clove]

So don't tell me it doesn't happen. kthx

Angelakthx you're retarded, it's illegal.

[Tisket]

My mother(who I know isn't lying), got turned away from a hospital during her heart problem, and was actually rerouted to another hospital, all because she didn't have insurance.

Finding another hospital that wil provide medical care for uninsured and under insured patients is a practice that is done often. They aren't going to send off someone bleeding to death or otherwise in a life threatening situation. Get real.

[Ilvane]

Finding another hospital that wil provide medical care for uninsured and under insured patients is a practice that is done often. They aren't going to send off someone bleeding to death or otherwise in a life threatening situation. Get real.

I'm not going to argue with you, when I know my mother--who was having a heart issue, got moved to another hospital because she didn't have insurance.

When she got to the other hospital, she was taken in for surgery immediately after.

Why wouldn't the other one take her? Because she was uninsured.

If she had died, I certainly would have had an issue with it, for sure.

Angela

[Warriorbird]

They were taking her to a place that would help her. Hillary's lying to try to get votes. There's a difference. Given that you used to be a shill for the insurance industry... why wasn't your Mom insured?

[Ilvane]

Because she was waiting for social security/disabilty to kick in, and we couldn't afford to get her a plan on there as it was over 600 dollars a month to cover her under a private plan.

It took nearly 2 years to approve, even though she was clearly disabled.

Our system works great, doesn't it?

Angela

[Warriorbird]

No Medicare to supplement? Ouch. Wheedling your way into group insurance is good but it requires the right family connections.

[Tisket]

I understand that when it is a family member every little thing seems life threatening. It does not sound like that was the case. Regardless, emergency care is federally mandated:


When you're injured and in the emergency room, the last thing you want to have to do is fight for treatment. Fortunately, a federal law passed in 1986 to prohibit a practice commonly known as "patient dumping" gives you the right to emergency care regardless of your ability to pay. The federal law applies to hospitals that participate in Medicare -- and that includes most hospitals in the United States. However, the patient-dumping law does not give you carte blanche.

What you're entitled to
In a nutshell, the federal patient-dumping law entitles you to three things: screening, emergency care and appropriate transfers. A hospital must provide "stabilizing care" for a patient with an emergency medical condition. The hospital must screen for the emergency and provide the care without inquiring about your ability to pay.

Hospitals cannot transfer patients until their condition has been stabilized. There are a couple of exceptions: if a patient requests to be transferred and is fully informed of the consequences of being moved, or if a physician feels that the medical benefits exceed the risk of the transfer

For instance, if a hospital is not equipped to deal with a trauma case, the emergency room physician may transfer the patient to a hospital that has a trauma center. Patients themselves sometimes will want to go to another hospital, either because they prefer that hospital or because their doctor is there. If you ask to be transferred to another hospital before your condition is stable, you'll most likely have to sign a form to show you've given your informed consent.

What you're not entitled to
If you're not having an emergency, then the hospital emergency room does not have to treat you. The hospital most likely will direct you to your own doctor or to a less-intensive-care setting, such as a community health clinic.

The patient-dumping law was passed to make sure that people in distress get the necessary medical attention. The question of payment, however, is between you and your insurance company. If you don't have health insurance, then you still will have to make payment arrangements with the hospital.

Once your condition has stabilized, the hospital also has the option of moving you to another facility.

The Department of Health and Human Services says that the patient-dumping law also applies to HMOs that illegally demand pre-authorization for emergency room visits. Emergency room care cannot be delayed while a hospital tries to obtain pre-authorization.



http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/KnowYourRights/KnowYourEmergencyRoomRights.aspx

[Ilvane]

This was before she approved for Social Security disability.

She had worked for over 20 years, but became sicker as time went by, and after my father died she got much worse. She's actually 59 right now, so not old either.

Speaking of Medicare:

Now, she has medicare, but she has about 5 thousand dollars in bills right now, since she's been in the hospital.

I signed her up for a medicare supplement plan this past month because they were ready to kick her out of the rehab place she was in because each day was costing 250 dollars a day for her, after medicare, and she has no way to pay. She can't get approved for medicaid again until she has incurred at least over 9 thousand in bills.

Angela

[Ilvane]

Tisket, I understand what the law is. I just know what happened.

I'm sure the hospital doesn't even have a record my mother was taken there, much less that they turned her away. I only know it happened because she was moved from one hospital to another when one wouldn't accept her due to her insurance situation. The one she did wind up going to took her in, and took her to surgery within two hours.

Do I feel my mother was stable? No. She fell over on the floor and collapsed. I was scared, and she was scared. I put her in an ambulance expecting her to be taken to the nearest facility. Even the EMT's from our town were shocked that she wasn't taken in there.

I just hate it when people say it doesn't happen. When you see it personally, it's scary enough..so I know I wouldn't want it to happen to anyone else.

Angela

[Warriorbird]

LTC might be an option if you can swing it. Sounds unpleasant. I know horrible things can happen and it can be extra horrifying when a family member is involved (my mother's heart attacks were misdiagnosed...very nearly to her extreme detriment). That means that when you're making political speeches regarding that kind of thing you should be extra careful regarding your facts... for it is deathly serious. I don't like how close Hillary is to big insurance and big pharm. What she offers is better than what any Republican would on the surface... but giveaways to pet companies are Republican standards. I wouldn't like to see a Democrat do the same thing.

[Ilvane]

I wish I could afford a full plan for her, trust me. Only problem is, I am taking care of all the bills for the house right now while she's sick, on a staff assistant salary.

I'm just hoping we get to 9 thousand soon so she can get some state help.

Angela

[Kembal]

And I've heard plenty of stories about people with their kidneys removed waking up in bathtubs filled with ice.

I don't believe those stories, either.

Actually, there's a doctor in India who just got caught. Apparently he had been taking kidneys from unwilling donors over the past few years. Something close to 200. Don't know if the patients were in a hospital or if it's bathtubs full of ice thing. (The story was all over the news when I was in India for my wedding, so I wasn't paying that much attention to it.)

He went on the run when the police came after him, and then got arrested in Nepal.

[Gan]

Turning someone away from the ER when they are presented with a life threatening injury or illness is a violation of the EMTALA act (http://www.emtala.com/). Hence why Clove said it was against the law.

A hopsital that turns away someone in emergent need of mecial treatement can be punished to the point of being shut down if they are caught doing so.

[Methais]

I'm just hoping we get to 9 thousand soon so she can get some state help.

That way you can call them up and be like...

Medicare: How much are your bills?
You: They're OVER NINE THOUSANNNNNND!!!!!

[Clove]

Tisket, I understand what the law is. I just know what happened.If you understood the law and were in need of emergency care- then why didn't you do something? It's not hard. You call 911 from the ER lobby if you have to. There'll be a record then. The government can write laws, but only YOU can get justice. I'm certainly not going to have my rights violated in a life-threatening situation and go "kthx".

[Parkbandit]

If you understood the law and were in need of emergency care- then why didn't you do something? It's not hard. You call 911 from the ER lobby if you have to. There'll be a record then. The government can write laws, but only YOU can get justice. I'm certainly not going to have my rights violated in a life-threatening situation and go "kthx".

It's like someone coming into your house.. and stealing the building.. and not calling the cops about it.

I KNEW when I read this story that most people would be 'God, Hillary is a dumb bitch to lie again' and we'd have Ilvane trying to explain how it happened.

Too fucking classic.

[Bobmuhthol]

Indeed, saying that the story haunted her, Mrs. Clinton repeatedly offered it as a dire example of a broken health care system. At one March rally in Wyoming, for instance, she referred to Ms. Bachtel, a 35-year-old who managed a Pizza Hut, as a young, uninsured minimum-wage worker, saying, “It hurts me that in our country, as rich and good of a country as we are, this young woman and her baby died because she couldn’t come up with $100 to see the doctor.”

Mrs. Clinton does not name Ms. Bachtel or the hospital in her speeches. As she tells it, the woman was turned away twice by a local hospital when she was experiencing difficulty with her pregnancy. “The hospital said, ‘Well, you don’t have insurance.’ She said, ‘No, I don’t.’ They said, ‘Well, we can’t see you until you give $100.’ She said, ‘Where am I going to get $100?’

“The next time she came back to the hospital, she came in an ambulance,” Mrs. Clinton continued. “She was in distress. The doctors and the nurses worked on her and couldn’t save the baby.”

Mrs. Clinton continued to speak about the subject for a few more minutes, laughing the entire time and finally closing with, "Now that is what happened."

It's so fucking upsetting that Ilvane would defend Hillary Clinton in this situation. Goddamnit.

[Ilvane]

Deputy Holman knew Ms. Bachtel’s story only secondhand, having learned it from close relatives of the woman.

Oh yes, so distressing that I might give her the benefit of the doubt, considering they heard the story from the FAMILY.

Angela

[Warriorbird]

So you've shifted to, "She heard the wrong thing?" Might "she heard the wrong thing." be awful convenient? See what I did there?

;)

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Oh yes, so distressing that I might give her the benefit of the doubt, considering they heard the story from the FAMILY.>>

It's pretty obvious from the article that the deputy's story is wildly different from Clinton's story anyway.

[Arkans]

http://www.abc15.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=c76a3928-ff51-44a6-9259-eac59240f86a

Speaking of medical atrocities.

How about this one? I think puts everything to shame!

- Arkans

[Daniel]

Lol

[diethx]

rofl, hot rod.

[Latrinsorm]

Oh yes, so distressing that I might give her the benefit of the doubt, considering they heard the story from the FAMILY.Yeah come on guys, Senator Clinton received intelligence that she didn't bother to get verified, it's not like Ilvane has ever decried another politician for doing that.

[CrystalTears]

Yeah come on guys, Senator Clinton received intelligence that she didn't bother to get verified, it's not like Ilvane has ever decried another politician for doing that.
I see what you did there.

[TheEschaton]

Tricksy metrosexual.

[AnticorRifling]

I waiting for the pictures of a hospital with snipers on the roof...

[Gan]

Yeah come on guys, Senator Clinton received intelligence that she didn't bother to get verified, it's not like Ilvane has ever decried another politician for doing that.

LOL
Winner.

[Methais]

This thread is overflowing with facepalm moments.