Jeremiah Wright

[Davenshire]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oped0404wrightapr03,0,92000.story


By Lawrence Korb and Ian Moss
April 3, 2008

In 1961, a young African-American man, after hearing President John F. Kennedy's challenge to, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country," gave up his student deferment, left college in Virginia and voluntarily joined the Marines.

In 1963, this man, having completed his two years of service in the Marines, volunteered again to become a Navy corpsman. (They provide medical assistance to the Marines as well as to Navy personnel.)

The man did so well in corpsman school that he was the valedictorian and became a cardiopulmonary technician. Not surprisingly, he was assigned to the Navy's premier medical facility, Bethesda Naval Hospital, as a member of the commander in chief's medical team, and helped care for President Lyndon B. Johnson after his 1966 surgery. For his service on the team, which he left in 1967, the White House awarded him three letters of commendation.

What is even more remarkable is that this man entered the Marines and Navy not many years after the two branches began to become integrated.

While this young man was serving six years on active duty, Vice President Dick Cheney, who was born the same year as the Marine/sailor, received five deferments, four for being an undergraduate and graduate student and one for being a prospective father. Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, both five years younger than the African-American youth, used their student deferments to stay in college until 1968. Both then avoided going on active duty through family connections.

Who is the real patriot? The young man who interrupted his studies to serve his country for six years or our three political leaders who beat the system? Are the patriots the people who actually sacrifice something or those who merely talk about their love of the country?

After leaving the service of his country, the young African-American finished his final year of college, entered the seminary, was ordained as a minister, and eventually became pastor of a large church in one of America's biggest cities.

This man is Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the retiring pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ, who has been in the news for comments he made over the last three decades.

Since these comments became public we have heard criticisms, condemnations, denouncements and rejections of his comments and him.

We've seen on television, in a seemingly endless loop, sound bites of a select few of Rev. Wright's many sermons.

Some of the Wright's comments are inexcusable and inappropriate and should be condemned, but in calling him "unpatriotic," let us not forget that this is a man who gave up six of the most productive years of his life to serve his country.

How many of Wright's detractors, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly to name but a few, volunteered for service, and did so under the often tumultuous circumstances of a newly integrated armed forces and a society in the midst of a civil rights struggle? Not many.

While words do count, so do actions.

Let us not forget that, for whatever Rev. Wright may have said over the last 30 years, he has demonstrated his patriotism.

Lawrence Korb and Ian Moss are, respectively, Navy and Marine Corps veterans. They work at The Center For American Progress. Korb served as assistant secretary of Defense in the Reagan administration.


I guess in some peoples zeal to never speak ill of their Country, condemn those that do, and feel "we as Americans can do no wrong." They give up some personal freedom. Although there were a few comments he said that made me shudder, A LOT was dead on.

Note the bolded part of the story.





Who is the real patriot?
While words do count, so do actions.

OBAMA '08

[Mabus]

Who is the real patriot?
If a person spouts lies as part of a militant racial agenda against the country, and the lies are based around anti-USA rhetoric while they are from the USA?

Definitions of "patriot":

Merriam Webster:
One who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests.

American Heritage:
One who loves, supports, and defends one's country.

Looking at those definitions I can easily answer your question.
"Not Jeremiah Wright."

Hope that was helpful.

[thefarmer]

If a person spouts lies as part of a militant racial agenda against the country, and the lies are based around anti-USA rhetoric while they are from the USA?

Definitions of "patriot":

Merriam Webster:
One who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests.

American Heritage:
One who loves, supports, and defends one's country.

Looking at those definitions I can easily answer your question.
"Not Jeremiah Wright."

Hope that was helpful.

"One who loves, supports, and defends one's country."

I don't see why you can't be patriotic and still want change in your government or country. Your definition doesn't say BLIND love.

[Methais]

I'm still not voting.

[Mabus]

I don't see why you can't be patriotic and still want change in your government or country. Your definition doesn't say BLIND love.
I am not talking about "BLIND love".

I am talking about Wright's repeated tirades gainst the USA. These include lies about the USA creating AIDs to infect racial groups, the USA sponsoring the cocaine usage in urban areas, Wright's now infamous "God damn America" speech, his support of terror organizations (and terrorism supporting states) over true USA allies, his avoidance of taxation by ranting under the guise of religious speech and several other clearly anti-USA remarks.

That would be more "BLIND hate" toward the USA, and certainly would not be defending it.

As I said, "Looking at those definitions", Wright is not a patriot. The term "patriot" comes from "patre", which means "father". His political speech, wrapped in the banner of religous speech, has not supported and defended this nation as a son would support and defend a father (in my opinion).

I do defend his right to freedom of speech, to say whatever he wants. I do not defend his church's non-taxable status for using the pulpit as a political device, nor the substance of his statements.

Defending his right to speech does not mean that I believe, nor that the definitions would show, that he is a "patriot".

[thefarmer]

As I said, "Looking at those definitions", Wright is not a patriot. The term "patriot" comes from "patre", which means "father". His political speech, wrapped in the banner of religous speech, has not supported and defended this nation as a son would support and defend a father (in my opinion).

Would you defend a father that beats you every day?


I do defend his right to freedom of speech, to say whatever he wants. I do not defend his church's non-taxable status for using the pulpit as a political device, nor the substance of his statements.

If this is the case, I take it you have issues with more than just Wright's church, seeing as how politics are preached in many other churches, both large and small.


Defending his right to speech does not mean that I believe, nor that the definitions would show, that he is a "patriot".

To be fair, I didn't say that Wright was a patriot, though I suppose that could have been inferred from the thread. My earlier post was merely an observation on your quoted definitions of being a patriot.

I still don't see why a person can be against the current government's policies but still have a love for their country.

For example, there are plenty of soldiers serving tours in Iraq right now that are against them being there (Google has plenty of articles I'm sure), against the government policies that sent them there, yet still fight and die for their country every day.

I'm sure plenty of them have said they hate the government, yet are you going to call them unpatriotic?

[Warriorbird]

The notion that you can't criticize your country and be a patriot would have Thomas Jefferson rolling over in his grave and Joseph McCarthy cheering in his. I'm sure that Wright's "repeated tirades" are all you've heard of his sermons. Yet if you take all the fucking moronic things that George Bush or Bill Clinton have said in their lives I'm sure both of them are far ahead of Wright. Both of them have been president if you've forgotten.

[875000]

"One who loves, supports, and defends one's country."

I don't see why you can't be patriotic and still want change in your government or country. Your definition doesn't say BLIND love.

In the late 1700’s, a young man, frustrated with the British rule over the American colonies, joined and help organize forces to help achieve American independence. This man fought for American independence from the British Empire. Although he started out as a captain, his distinguished service, keen insight, and dedication allowed him to rise through the ranks to the position of general in the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War.

This man was considered by many to be the best general and most accomplished leader in the Continental Army. In fact, without his early contributions to the American cause, the American Revolution might well have been lost.

He distinguished himself early in the war through acts of cunning and bravery. His many successful campaigns included the Capture of Fort Ticonderoga (1775), victory at the Battle of Valcour Island on Lake Champlain in 1776, the battles of Danbury and Ridgefield in Connecticut (after which he was promoted to Major General), and the Battle of Saratoga in 1777.

In fact, that last battle is considered by many the turning point in the war. The Saratoga campaign was a series of battles fought in upper New York near Albany that culminated in the American victory at the Battle of Saratoga and the surrender of the British army led by Lieutenant General John Burgoyne on October 17, 1777. This man played a decisive role in several of these battles. For example, in August, 1777 he led a force which relieved the siege of Fort Stanwix.

The Battle of Bemis Heights was the final battle of the Saratoga Campaign. Outnumbered, out of supplies, and cut off from retreat largely by this man’s doing, Burgoyne was forced to surrender on October 17, 1777.
During the fighting, this man was wounded in the same leg as at Quebec and below the buttock. He continued to press on.

Historians agree that he was instrumental to the successful outcome of the Saratoga campaign, showing courage, initiative, and military brilliance. He is said to have single-handedly cut off Burgoyne's attempt to escape in the decisive Battle of Bemis Heights. It was this decisive victory that convinced the French to intervene on the American colonists behalf.

A monument in Saratoga National Historical Park was erected in recognition of his victory, heroism and for the injury he sustained during the campaign, bearing a dedication to "the most brilliant soldier of the Continental army... winning for his countrymen the decisive battle of the American Revolution and for himself the rank of Major General."

Who was this man? This man is Benedict Arnold, the same man who later sought and obtained command of West Point in order to surrender it to the British and undermine the revolutionary war.


Meta Commentary: Man, I hate articles like these two. They essential set someone up to be an angel, and then gloss over what they can be fairly criticized for by just treating them as an aside.

To be fair, Wright is no where near on the same level as Arnold. But, he is not exactly a sterling representation of patroism and American pride, either.

[Mabus]

Would you defend a father that beats you every day?
"Have you stopped beating your wife?"
I hardly believe that the USA has "beat" Wright every day. The question has nothing to do with the issue of whether he is a patriot.


If this is the case, I take it you have issues with more than just Wright's church, seeing as how politics are preached in many other churches, both large and small.
Political speech during the authorized functions of a non-profit, and specifically speech supporting one candidate over another by names, should disqualify a non-profit from tax exempt status.

Since 1954 churches are prohibited from endorsing or opposing a candidate. Wright has done both from the pulpit.

Nothing wrong with a general "We are for life", or "More should be done for the poor". It definately crosses the line when two candidates are compared by name from the pulpit.


I still don't see why a person can be against the current government's policies but still have a love for their country.
That would assume that the stated opposition had truth to it. The use of malicious lies is not protected speech, nor should it be. And loving one's country does not by itself make one a patriot, it also implies support for one's country.

Lies about one's country that are used for gain certainly neither imply love or support for the country.

I'm sure plenty of them have said they hate the government, yet are you going to call them unpatriotic?
Not I, the definitions.

People often bandy about words without knowing their meanings. For communication of ideas to be effective it relies on a shared understanding of the definitions of words.

By definition Wright is not a patriot, which was the question asked.

[Mabus]

The notion that if you can't criticize your country and be a patriot would have Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson knew there is a large difference between justified criticism and outright malicious lies. While Jefferson would support free speech I doubt Jefferson would support lies about the government, especially those couched as a religous sermon.

"Honesty is the first chapter of the book of wisdom." -Thomas Jefferson.

Wright has lied from the pulpit. He did so to further his own standing with ignorant people that believed urban legends and unfounded conspiracies. He relied on these people for his monetary gain.

[Jesuit]

How many of Wright's detractors, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly to name but a few, volunteered for service, and did so under the often tumultuous circumstances of a newly integrated armed forces and a society in the midst of a civil rights struggle? Not many.

I don't have a problem with this guy attacking Rush Limbaugh's or Bill O'Reilly's service, that's fine. But integration into the armed forces started in the 1940s, not the 1960s.

[Parkbandit]

The notion that if you can't criticize your country and be a patriot would have Thomas Jefferson rolling over in his grave and Joseph McCarthy cheering in his. I'm sure that Wright's "repeated tirades" are all you've heard of his sermons. Yet if you take all the fucking moronic things that George Bush or Bill Clinton have said in their lives I'm sure both of them are far ahead of Wright. Both of them have been president if you've forgotten.

There is a big difference from criticising your country and making stuff up to promote your criticism. There is also a time and a place for everything.. 9/16/01 may have been JUST a bit early to be saying that the US deserved the attacks of 9-11-01.

Serving in the military doesn't automatically make you a patriot btw.

[Warriorbird]

Right... because you're all about being positive towards people who serve in the military.

Jerry Falwell said all sorts of lies from his pulpit about America. McCain was super excited to go speak at his college to make up for criticizing the religious wackos in your party and getting slammed for it in 2000, Parkbandit.

[Clove]

Jeremiah was a bullfrog.

[Parkbandit]

Right... because you're all about being positive towards people who serve in the military.

Jerry Falwell said all sorts of lies from his pulpit about America. McCain was super excited to go speak at his college to make up for criticizing the religious wackos in your party and getting slammed for it in 2000, Parkbandit.


You are really pathetic.

First - because I said that serving in the military doesn't automatically make you a patriot.. somehow you construe that into me putting down the military. Seriously? That would be a connection someone like Daniel would make.. only he would say something like "I'm lik 100% positive you hate the military" Both of you would be equally stupid in believing that though.

And who the fuck is talking about McCain in 2000? Is McCain a member of Falwell's church? Did McCain donate 25K to Falwell's Church? Did McCain appoint Falwell as his spiritual Advisor? If not, then your comparison.. much like your logic.. sucks.

[Daniel]

his support of terror organizations (and terrorism supporting states) over true USA allies,

Yea. Just like his buddy Nelson Mandela! That racist anti Semite!

I find it funny that you rant and rave about malicious lies and at the same time make the connection that he supports terrorism because he doesn't believe in apartheid in Palestine.

[Mabus]

I find it funny that you rant and rave about malicious lies and at the same time make the connection that he supports terrorism because he doesn't believe in apartheid in Palestine.
I am talking more about his visit to Libya, and Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi, during a time when that country supported terrorism.

Perhaps you are comparing Mandela to Gaddafi now? I could "find that funny" in your special way "you rant and rave".

[Back]

I am talking more about his visit to Libya, and Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi, during a time when that country supported terrorism.

I find it interesting that you have such an axe to grind with this guy.

[Daniel]

I am talking more about his visit to Libya, and Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi, during a time when that country supported terrorism.




Oh you are now? I guess you learned your lesson since you posted this:




Oh, here is a PDF from Obama's Church. (http://tucc.org/upload/tuccbulletin_june10.pdf) Look specifically at the anti-semetic, anti-Israel "Open Letter to Oprah from Ali Baghdadi". Makes a good read for Israel haters. You will love it Daniel!

In case you want to impeach the source for it, it is from the church's own website.


The Hateful message:

Dear Oprah,
I
am so glad that you will be visiting my
country, Palestine. I wish I could be there
to greet you. Certainly, despite the genocide
and ethnic cleansing they face every hour of the
day, my people will be there. They will be happy
to see you and will receive you with open arms.
Unfortunately, I cannot be there! My family
tree and my roots in Palestine go back to time
immemorial, long before Islam, Christianity and
Judaism came into being. Last July, I was given
entry to my homeland only as a tourist, with
an American passport and a Japanese camera.
Though I am 70 years old, I had to stand at the
Israeli immigration window at Sheikh Hussein
entry point on the Jordan River for over seven
hours before I was allowed in to visit my home
and family. Months earlier, Canadian Jews were
processed and given Israeli citizenship to my
land while they were 35,000 feet high over the
Atlantic.
Arabs, throughout history, are known to be
hospitable to their guests. You will be no excep-
tion. For many centuries, Jews escaped the dis-
crimination and death they were subjected to in
Europe, and found safety and refuge among us.
Muslims believe in Christianity and Judaism. The
Quran states there is no distinction between Mu-
hammad, Jesus and Moses. Therefore, according
to our Islamic teachings, all are prophets of God
and all must be honored and respected.
You must know that Zionist Jews from all over
the world, particularly Europe, came to my Pal-
estine, not as guests, but as settlers and occupiers
in the early part of the 20th century. The natives
were referred to as “snakes” from which the land
must be cleansed. In 1948 they occupied 72% of
my land and emptied out over 500 Arab (Chris-
tian and Muslim) towns and villages. In 1967
they occupied the remaining 28%. Six million of
us have been living in refugee camps in Jordan,
Syria, and Lebanon for the last fifty nine years,
even though the United Nations ordered the
Israeli government to allow us to return (1948
UN resolution 194).
Our Palestine is so beautiful. You will enjoy it.
It is a museum. So many civilizations have mixed
and melted there. Throughout history, invaders
came and finally left. We remained. We survived.
As we offered the Crusaders who occupied our
holy lands for two hundred years, Jews can stay
and share our land, if they wish to live in a free
and democratic Palestine that respects the rights
of all, regardless of their religion, race, or ethnic-
ity. Those who refuse and insist to live in an
apartheid state will inevitably pack up and return
to their native lands.
Please, visit Jaffa, Haifa, Acre, and Nazareth
within the so-called Green Line. Take pleasure

in the aroma of our orange orchards on the
Mediterranean coast. Drive to the top of the
Mount of al-Carmel and enjoy its beauty and the
splendid view.
Elie Wiesel, your host, will take you to the
Holocaust Memorial in Jerusalem to show you
the crimes committed by the Germans against
the Jews. Undoubtedly, when the visit is com-
pleted, he will attempt to usher you away; but if
you look down across the valley you can see the
site of the massacre of the village of Deir Yassin.
Hundreds of armless and helpless Arab men,
women, and children were shot to death, by the
Irgun, Wiesel’s associates and friends, in April
1948. The remaining women survivals were pa-
raded in trucks through the streets of Jerusalem.
I can never forget this scene, just can’t. My fam-
ily, among the thousands of Palestinians, had to
flee. “NEVER AGAIN” are two hollow words.
They don’t apply to non-Jews.
Oprah, I beg you not to forget visiting Gaza
and the West Bank where over three million of
us still live. All attempts made to force them
leave and run for their lives have failed. Take
pictures of the 700 kilometer apartheid wall and
reflect on the political messages of the graffiti it
displays. I was struck by one of these messages
at the entry to Bethlehem. “Thou not steal.”
Confiscation of our lands, however, continues
until this day.
Experience some of the military check points
where our people have to stand in line for hours
before they are allowed to cross. Witness the
harassment and degradation my people are
subjected to. A 20-minute journey from a village
to another takes seven hours. Many pregnant
Arab women have lost their babies while wait-
ing for clearance on their way to hospitals. There
are over 550 of these checkpoints that divide
our land into ghettos in the West Bank alone.
Though the water we get does not meet our
basic needs, notice the swimming pools Israelis
enjoy in settlements built on our stolen lands.
Of course, the highlight of your trip will be
the performance of pilgrimage in Jerusalem, the
city of Jesus. It is also the city of my birth. The
school I attended is the site of the palace where
he received his death sentence. My home is only
a couple of blocks away from the Via Dolorosa,
the path he took to his crucifixion. Walk through
the narrow and curved alleys where he walked.
I did that without interruption for 23 years.
Those days are gone.
Oprah, stand on top of the Mount of Olives,
as I often did, and experience the glory and maj-
esty of Jerusalem, its al-Aqsa Mosque, the Dome
of the Rock, the Holy Sepulcher, and other
houses of worship. Observe the magnificence of
the ancient wall built by Muslims to defend and
protect these priceless treasures. Hear al-azan,
the Muslim call for prayer, as it joins in unison
with bells coming from Christian churches. What
an eternal symphony!
Please proceed to the village of Bethany, three miles to the east. Go down the steps of the
cave that leads to the tomb of Lazarus, whom
Jesus raised from the dead. The small dark
room on top of the cave was the shelter my
mother, my three younger sisters, and I took
after we escaped the carpet bombing of the old
city of Jerusalem in 1948. My Muslim cousin
is the custodian of the holy cave, a great honor
that his family inherited from a generation to
a generation. His father, an illiterate, was able
to recite to Christian worshipers the story of
Lazarus, in English, French, German, Spanish,
Russian, Greek, and other foreign languages.
Don’t miss the opportunity to drive five miles
south to Bethlehem. Feel the ecstasy of enter-
ing the most dramatic cave in which the Virgin
Mary delivered her beautiful Palestinian baby.
During the Second Intifadah, the uprising
against Israeli occupation, Muslim and Chris-
tian activists, chased by the Israeli death squads,
were given refuge in the church.
You may go and see the Jordan River where
Jesus was baptized, only a thirty minute drive.
Beware; don’t plunge into the dirty and pol-
luted waters. The river is almost dry. Its waters
were diverted by the Israelis. Five miles west,
near Jericho, you will pass by the Mount of
Temptation where Jesus fasted for forty days. I
can no longer walk up the steep mountain and
pay respect to the Greek monks who chose to
dedicate their lives to their Lord at their ancient
and lonely monastery at the summit.
I do know that Mr. Mandela, who is probably
the most respected man on Earth today, is your
friend and hero. He is also mine. I met him in
Chicago; and I had the honor of visiting him at
his home in South Africa, years back. You are
also a friend and a great admirer of Cape Town
Archbishop Tutu, a Nobel Peace Prize digni-
tary, a man who has stood against injustice and
racism almost his entire life. Both men describe
Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, the natives
of the land, as worse than apartheid. Recently,
Israel prevented Bishop Tutu from coming
to Gaza to investigate and report Israel’s war
crimes to the United Nations.
I must tell you that Israel was the closest ally
to the White Supremacists of South Africa. In
fact, South Africa allowed Israel to test its nucle-
ar weapons in the ocean off South Africa. The
Israelis were given a blank check: they could test
whenever they desired and did not even have to
ask permission. Both worked on an ethnic bomb
that kills Blacks and Arabs.
Arabs have always supported the dismantling
of this racist government. In 1962, African-Arab
Sudan granted Mandela a passport to travel with
to gain international support in his struggle to
free his people. Libya, among other Arab states,
provided Mandela and other African liberation
movements, political as well as material support.
As a result, Libya was designated by the White
House as a terrorist rogue state. What a great
honor!
A few days ago, Amnesty International’s annu-
al report was released. The report slams Israel’s
conduct in the occupied territories. It documents
some of the “serious human rights abuses” Israel
commits daily. It also spoke of the “war crimes”
that Israel had committed in Lebanon.
Arnold Toynbee, the world renowned histo-
rian, stated that what the Zionist Jews did to the
Palestinians is worse than what the Nazis did to
the Jews, because, as he stated, Jews should have
learned from their tragic experience.
Dear Oprah, I do understand the enormous
pressure you are subjected to. But I am encour-
aged by your speech to Howard University
graduates. “My integrity is not for sale...Do
not be a slave to any form of selling out,” you
remarked.
When you return, may God of the Universe
grant you the courage to tell the world of whatyou actually witnessed. Judging from the ter-
rible attacks and insults former President Jimmy
Carter has recently experienced for his book,
Palestine Peace Not Apartheid, I do not claim
that the task is easy. However, it would be an
unforgivable crime for those who have suffered
from slavery and are still suffering from discrimi-
nation, to ignore the suffering of others.
With Peace and Love,
Ali Baghdadi
(arabjournl@aol.com)

[Gan]

"You cannot separate truth from the one who preaches it to you."

[Mabus]

Oh you are now? I guess you learned your lesson since you posted this:

While that is toward an ally of the USA, I also posted about Wright's trip to Libya with Loius Farrakhan in 1984. Seems you conveniently left that out.

In 1984 Libya was on the USA list of terrorism sponsoring nations. They were, during that time, actively training and paying for terrorists to kill US citizens, soldiers and blow up airliners.

After the visit Gaddafi sent out orders to kiill US civillian and military, and to inflict "maximum and indiscriminate casualties", to its agents in Europe. These communications were intercepted.

So that must have been some amazing "spirtual guidance" Wright gave on his visit. What a "patriot"...

But any defence for your buddy, eh Daniel?

[Daniel]

Gotta go with what works huh?

Any details or information on what the trip was actually about?

[Warriorbird]

Nope. I also missed any complaints by him about Republican backing ministers blaming 9-11 on gay people. It's just extra enraging when black people dare criticize the country. They're extra non patriotic. America isn't founded on dissent. Nobody ever says things that are questionable from pulpits! We ought to waterboard that uppity Wright. That'd show him. It's not torture either.

[Methais]

Jeremiah Wright doesn't care about white people.

[TheEschaton]

Funny, 1984 was around the time Donald Rumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam, in an effort to fight terrorism with.....terror.

No one in not complicit. Your definition of "malicious lies" is one part Wright's conspiracy theory about HIV/AIDS, one part his support for Palestine against Israel's extranational actions against UN resolutions, and 8 parts idiocy.

-TheE-

[Parkbandit]

Funny, 1984 was around the time Donald Rumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam, in an effort to fight terrorism with.....terror.


-TheE-


In 1984, was Iraq considered an enemy like Lybia was?

[Clove]

In 1984, was Iraq considered an enemy like Lybia was?Iraq was included on the State Department's list of States Sponsoring Terrorism in 1979, but they were removed from the list in 1982, only to be returned in 1990. Technically no, but... well you get the idea. Interestingly the State Department 1982 publication of Patterns of Global Terrorism explained its removal of Iraq from the list:
"The Iraqi Government has reduced support to non Palestinian groups thereby moving closer to the policies of its moderate Arab neighbors". Hardly a glowing endorsement.

[Warriorbird]

Libya not Lybia.

I don't normally correct grammar but it was sort of glaring.

[Parkbandit]

Libya not Lybia.

I don't normally correct grammar but it was sort of glaring.


Thank god.. because it really helped the discussion get back on track.

[Daniel]

You did an admirable job yourself.

[Methais]

Thank god.. because it really helped the discussion get back on track.

It did. When I kept seeing the word "Lybia" it made me think of Winona Ryder's character "Lydia" from Beetlejuice and made me want to cut myself because I don't have a hot ghost like Geena Davis running around my house.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/winona.ryder/scansr/ryder/BEETLEJUICE-E.JPG
http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0094721/BEETLEJUICE4.jpg