Obama Decries Racial Rhetoric

[Parkbandit]

PLAINFIELD, Ind. (AP) - Sen. Barack Obama on Saturday decried "the forces of division" over race that he said are intruding into the Democratic presidential nomination contest.

"We have to come together," he told a town-hall meeting at a high school.

He cited videos of inflammatory sermons given by his pastor that are now being used as political ammunition against him - remarks that Obama has denounced.

"If all I knew were those statements I saw on television, I would be shocked," Obama said.

Obama suggested that more and more is being made of racial divisions as his contest with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton heats up.

"I noticed over the last several weeks that the forces of division have started to raise their ugly heads again. And I'm not here to cast blame or point fingers because everybody, you know, senses that there's been this shift," Obama said.

"It reminds me: We've got a tragic history when it comes to race in this country. We've got a lot of pent-up anger and bitterness and misunderstanding. ... This country wants to move beyond these kinds of things."

The Illinois senator's comments came a day after he denounced statements in videos appearing on television and on the Internet of sermons by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, pastor of the Chicago church Obama joined nearly 20 years ago.

"Most recently, you heard some statements from my former pastor that were incendiary and that I completely reject, although I knew him and know him as somebody in my church who talked to me about Jesus and family and friendships."

Obama said that pointing out racial differences only makes it harder to "deliver on the big issues we face in this country," which he said include health care, the slumping economy, terrorism and caring better for veterans.

Obama, whose mother's family was from Kansas and his father from Kenya, said he was speaking "as someone who has little pieces of America all in me."

He said schools should do a better job of teaching all students African-American history "because that's part of American history," as well as women's struggle for equality, the history of unions, the role of Hispanics in U.S. and other matters that he suggested aren't given enough attention.

"I want us to have a broad-based history" taught in schools, he said, even including more on "the Holocaust as well as other issues of oppression" around the world.

Obama spoke in the gymnasium of Plainfield High School, near Indianapolis, as he directed his political attention at states beyond the critical April 22 Pennsylvania primary.

"We are going to be campaigning actively in Indiana," Obama said to cheers. Indiana and North Carolina have primaries on May 6, two weeks after Pennsylvania.

___________________________________

I don't know.. his pastor sounds like a very angry man who blames the whites and America for all the world's woes. I can't believe that after 20 years of going to this church.. performing the marriage ceremony and making him the spiritual advisor of his campaign.. that this is the first time Obama has heard this guy's crazy talk.

[Ilvane]

I find it hard to believe that he never heard the man talk like that after being part of the church for 20 years.

I love how he is saying it's the politics of division, yet this guy(the pastor) spoke more divisive--and if Obama is a dedicated member of this church, it's scary.

[radamanthys]

Yea, maybe the black community will realize that just because a guy is black, famous, and talks alot (Sharpton, Farrakan, Jackson, this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMOkDOXAovQ), etc.), it doesn't necessarily mean they are worth supporting.

You know what I think, though, is that considering his wife's "Proud to be an american, for once" comments: his wife is all about this 'kill whitey' rhetoric. The question is: can he be a consummate professional and keep the greater good of the nation in mind, or does he subscribe to the rhetoric spewed forth by these racist demagogues?

[Latrinsorm]

Ilvane, can you go a week without being a blatant hypocrite, please? You didn't have a word to say about Ferraro or any of the other ridiculous racist remarks from the Clinton campaign, but ONE guy related to Obama says something and OH JEEZ OH PETE THAT'S SO SCARY. Jesus Christ.
The question is: can he be a consummate professional and keep the greater good of the nation in mind, or does he subscribe to the rhetoric spewed forth by these racist demagogues?And the answer is YES HE CAN and no he doesn't, respectively.

[Parkbandit]

Problem is.. this rhetoric spewing pastor has been his pastor for the past 20 years.. conducted his marriage ceremony and baptised his kids. What you are saying is that these two or three sermons were just one time things.

If I was a church going person and my 'spiritual advisor' was using this type of hate speech.. I'm not sure I would go back after the first time.. let alone for the past 20 years.

[Parkbandit]

And the answer is YES HE CAN and no he doesn't, respectively.

Oh.. I didn't realize you were close personal friends of the Obamas and can say this with certainty.

Give them my love the next time you are over for dinner.

[Gan]

And the answer is YES HE CAN and no he doesn't, respectively.

But he doesnt have any problem or issue accepting votes or money from supporters who support him solely because he's black.

How can you hoestly think race can not be seperated from this campaign or election?


From a futilistic standpoint, I dont think you can seperate race from this or any election when the voting base actively participate for that particular reason.

[Ilvane]

Ilvane, can you go a week without being a blatant hypocrite, please? You didn't have a word to say about Ferraro or any of the other ridiculous racist remarks from the Clinton campaign, but ONE guy related to Obama says something and OH JEEZ OH PETE THAT'S SO SCARY. Jesus Christ.And the answer is YES HE CAN and no he doesn't, respectively.

Ferraro didn't exactly spew hate for 20 years.

Ferraro was talking about how she got someplace because she was a woman, she's right..Obama got further in the forefront because he is black--the first black candidate, etc, etc..But if he were white, would it be the same? John Edwards is an example. He was incredibly articulate, had plans, and spoke of hope too--and see how far he got?

Why is it so wrong to state a fact these days? Why does everything have to be so damned politically correct?

Angela

[Gan]

Ilvane, can you go a week without being a blatant hypocrite, please? You didn't have a word to say about Ferraro or any of the other ridiculous racist remarks from the Clinton campaign, but ONE guy related to Obama says something and OH JEEZ OH PETE THAT'S SO SCARY. Jesus Christ.

I thought it was already well established that Ilvane does not support Obama because its black. I mean seriously - those of us who remember the thread where she blatantly said she would support McCain over Obama if Obama beat Hillary was a clear indication of a racial matter; especially considering the gross similarities of platform between Obama and Hillary and dissimilarities between the RNC platform and the DNC platform specifically point to it being a racial matter.

Surely you're not suprised at that. And I am calling you surely. ;)

[Parkbandit]

Ferraro didn't exactly spew hate for 20 years.

Ferraro was talking about how she got someplace because she was a woman, she's right..Obama got further in the forefront because he is black--the first black candidate, etc, etc..But if he were white, would it be the same? John Edwards is an example. He was incredibly articulate, had plans, and spoke of hope too--and see how far he got?

Why is it so wrong to state a fact these days? Why does everything have to be so damned politically correct?

Angela

Sucks to be on the other side.. doesn't it :P

And Ferraro was right.. she wouldn't have been named VP if her name was Gerald Ferraro. OMG SHE R SEXIST NOW!

[Ilvane]

LOL, yep PB..

And I don't like Obama, not because he's black, but because I don't care for him. He's fluffy, very little substance. End of story. Has nothing to do with his blackness.

Angela

[Daniel]

Problem is.. this rhetoric spewing pastor has been his pastor for the past 20 years.. conducted his marriage ceremony and baptised his kids. What you are saying is that these two or three sermons were just one time things.

If I was a church going person and my 'spiritual advisor' was using this type of hate speech.. I'm not sure I would go back after the first time.. let alone for the past 20 years.

Hey..quick question

What was hateful about his speech?

[Daniel]

Ferraro didn't exactly spew hate for 20 years.

Ferraro was talking about how she got someplace because she was a woman, she's right..Obama got further in the forefront because he is black--the first black candidate, etc, etc..But if he were white, would it be the same? John Edwards is an example. He was incredibly articulate, had plans, and spoke of hope too--and see how far he got?

Why is it so wrong to state a fact these days? Why does everything have to be so damned politically correct?

Angela

All I can say is: LOL

Also. Obama is not the first serious black candidate.

Ferraro made similar comments about Jesse Jackson when he was running...about 20 years ago.

[radamanthys]

He's fluffy, very little substance.

...

And the consummate politician that is Hillary would be just brimming with substance? No fluff? Totally straightforward?

[Gan]

...

And the consummate politician that is Hillary would be just brimming with substance? No fluff? Totally straightforward?

Now now, we all know Hillary is full of substance...




Fecal substance. (shit)

[Ilvane]

Here are some quotes for you Daniel.

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.

"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.

"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.


From the mission of the church: W.E.B. DuBois indicated that the problem in the 20th century was going to be the problem of the color line. He was absolutely correct. Our job as servants of God is to address that problem and eradicate it in the name of Him who came for the whole world by calling all men, women, boys and girls to Christ.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So how do you reconcile the talk of Obama and his talk of Uniting people with him being a part of a church for 20 years, been married by, and counseled by a man who holds beliefs that bad-mouth America and makes racial issues?

Hmm?

[radamanthys]

http://www.nohillaryclinton.com/blog/blog_images/HR.jpg

I'd hit it.

[Gan]

With a brick maybe.

No wait, that picture looks like its already been hit by a brick. Multiple times in the face.

[radamanthys]

So how do you reconcile the talk of Obama and his talk of Uniting people with him being a part of a church for 20 years, been married by, and counseled by a man who holds beliefs that bad-mouth America and makes racial issues?

They're all attributed to the democratic party. Does that mean that they agree with everything every democrat says? No. Just because he's a member doesn't mean he agrees with every speech and every piece of craziness out of anyone's mouth. Membership to a church is more than just the words spewed forth from the pulpit.

[Daniel]

Here are some quotes for you Daniel.

[quote]
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.

Okay. So, he believes that America kills innocent people, specifically over race and he condemns it.

That is so hateful.



In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.

"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.

"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.


Well, the only thing tenuous in this statement is his allusion to Nagasaki and Hiroshima having an effect on our problem now. However, it is true that we promoted apartheid in SA and now in Palestine and it is true that this has caused us problems.

It is also generally accepted in the national security arena that our actions or inactions around the world let to 9\11. So once again..so hateful.



From the mission of the church: W.E.B. DuBois indicated that the problem in the 20th century was going to be the problem of the color line. He was absolutely correct. Our job as servants of God is to address that problem and eradicate it in the name of Him who came for the whole world by calling all men, women, boys and girls to Christ.


Yes..ending racism is so hateful.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



So how do you reconcile the talk of Obama and his talk of Uniting people with him being a part of a church for 20 years, been married by, and counseled by a man who holds beliefs that bad-mouth America and makes racial issues?

Hmm?


Bad Mouths America?

You've said similar things regarding the Iraq war, have you not?

Makes Racial issues? In both cases he is talking about ENDING racism. Do you need me to point to comments out of the hillary camp? Or are you just acknowledging that they make race an issue?

[Gan]

They're all attributed to the democratic party. Does that mean that they agree with everything every democrat says? No. Just because he's a member doesn't mean he agrees with every speech and every piece of craziness out of anyone's mouth. Membership to a church is more than just the words spewed forth from the pulpit.

Only downside is that he's the leader of the church.

This is why I'm not a fan of religious leaders involved in politics. Much like the inclusion of Jerry Fallwell, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, etc. (ZOMG Mike Huckabee!)

Religion is way to selective to be involved in politics that should not be as selective.

[TheEschaton]

The best part of all of this is this point (and I say this as a Hillary supporter):

1) Everything that pastor has said is true, except the AIDS being invented by the gov't thing. America has acted like a terrorist nation by supporting coups of democratically elected leftists to install dictatorial rightists. America supported apartheid, and Israel unfairly, both in the UN Security Council and with weapons. They supported Saddam and Osama. And in the Bible, God damns the hypocrites and speakers of false truth.

2) Obama can't espouse that view because it scares too many people, despite it being true. Despite the facts, no American wants to believe anything except that America is perfect.

3) People, for some reason, think that patriotism is insisting that America is perfect, and that saying "God damn America [for being hypocritical]" can't be an honest critique arising out of patriotism.

4) If Obama actually espoused these views, I would most definitively be voting for him. He's whitewashing revolution, and that to me indicates he'll fold immediately under pressure in the WH.

[Latrinsorm]

But he doesnt have any problem or issue accepting votes or money from supporters who support him solely because he's black.

How can you hoestly think race can not be seperated from this campaign or election?I'd like to see a source for the first statement, and as to the second I don't think race can be separated. I further think that this in no way means that a candidate has to subscribe to any kind of racism - otherwise every candidate of every "race" would be a racist.
Oh.. I didn't realize you were close personal friends of the Obamas and can say this with certainty.I wish I had kept that quote of yours denigrating reading handy. :(
Obama got further in the forefront because he is black--the first black candidate, etc, etc..Daniel already pointed this out, but I wanted to add my "...".
Why is it so wrong to state a fact these days? Why does everything have to be so damned politically correct?Why should the pastor be any more restrained in stating what he believes to be the case than Mrs. Ferraro?

Let me guess, is this about where you complain that everyone attacks you and nobody wants to talk about the facts?

[Daniel]

The best part of all of this is this point (and I say this as a Hillary supporter):

1) Everything that pastor has said is true, except the AIDS being invented by the gov't thing. America has acted like a terrorist nation by supporting coups of democratically elected leftists to install dictatorial rightists. America supported apartheid, and Israel unfairly, both in the UN Security Council and with weapons. They supported Saddam and Osama. And in the Bible, God damns the hypocrites and speakers of false truth.

2) Obama can't espouse that view because it scares too many people, despite it being true. Despite the facts, no American wants to believe anything except that America is perfect.

3) People, for some reason, think that patriotism is insisting that America is perfect, and that saying "God damn America [for being hypocritical]" can't be an honest critique arising out of patriotism.

4) If Obama actually espoused these views, I would most definitively be voting for him. He's whitewashing revolution, and that to me indicates he'll fold immediately under pressure in the WH.


Such hate.

If anyone is keeping score:

Comments condemning American Hypocrisy and harmful foreign policy: 2

(which btw, is not something you should preach too hard on there Ilvane)

Comments condemning Racism and saying it should end: 2

My god WE CAN'T LET THIS MAN KEEP GOING.

[radamanthys]

Only downside is that he's the leader of the church.

This is why I'm not a fan of religious leaders involved in politics. Much like the inclusion of Jerry Fallwell, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, etc. (ZOMG Mike Huckabee!)

Religion is way to selective to be involved in politics that should not be as selective.

Well said- I agree on the necessary religion/political schism . But, just because one has attended/ listens to one of those guys, doesn't mean they attribute their core beliefs to that particular demagogue's ideals.

[Warriorbird]

If Obama can survive this stuff I think it is good that is is coming out now... versus Hillary.

[TheEschaton]

My roommate (who is an Obama supporter) fears this may be the end of the campaign. He doesn't trust white Americans to let it go.

[Warriorbird]

Most folks knew it'd be an issue eventually. I'd certainly rather have him than Hillary Clinton. I consider it a test.

[Daniel]

If he wasn't prepared for this then I figure he wasn't ready to be president anyway.

[Parkbandit]

I doubt anyone is surprised that Daniel doesn't find anything this idiot says as racist or hateful.

[Daniel]

Please outline what you think is hateful and or racist. I want specifics.

Afterall, we aren't afraid to talk about race around here right?

[CrystalTears]

I don't have a problem with what he said either. :shrug:

[Ilvane]

Do a search on You Tube and listen to some of his so called "preaching"

You'd see something easily. I wasn't going to do a long post of quotes to make a point, but the ones that he said the weekend after 9/11 are disturbing to me.

Angela

[Parkbandit]

Shit.. I forgot the rule here.. it's only racist if a white man says it.

My bad :(

[Warriorbird]

I didn't find that particular sermon racist. About the only direct racist thing that he can be painted with has to do with giving Farrakhan money and having given him an award.

I wonder what Obama has planned in response to all of this. I don't imagine he's thrilled about what Wright said regarding Hillary.... but apart from that he's gone to this fellow's church for a while.

Your lack of willingness to go into specifics and your lack of outcry over the Clinton campaign's shenanigans illustrates your biases pretty plainly, Ilvane.

[Ilvane]

So PB, can you imagine if a white man was running for president and his preacher was talking about white supremecy, etc..

Do you think he'd be a candidate for long, never mind the leading contender?

Just a non-politically correct thought.

Angela

[Parkbandit]

I think it's funny you're arguing on my side... if Clinton was black, you wouldn't be and would be excusing it off.

[Warriorbird]

Wright's for black folks standing up for themselves. I don't think that's particularly offensive to Republicans.

[Ilvane]

Here, I'll make it easy for you..but then that's it, I'm not getting into a Angela needs to prove herself argument, here. There has been plenty of talk about him being racist and inflammatory, I'm not the only one thinking it.

“Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single-parent home. Barack was.” Mr. Obama “knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich, white people; Hillary would never know that, Hillary ain’t never been called a nigger,”

“In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01,” Wright wrote in a church-affiliated magazine. “White America and the western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.”

In one of his sermons, Wright said, “Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!…We [in the U.S.] believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.”

Jesus was a poor black man who lived in a country and who lived in a culture that was controlled by rich white people. The Romans were rich, the Romans were Italian, which means they were European, which means they were white, and the Romans ran everything in Jesus’ country. It just came to me, within the past few weeks, y’all, why so many folks are hatin’ on Barack Obama: He doesn’t fit the mold. He ain’t white, he ain’t rich, and he ain’t privileged. Hillary fits the mold. Europeans fit the mold. Giuliani fits the mold. Rich white men fit the mold. Hillary never had a cab whiz past her and not pick her up because her skin was the wrong color. Hillary never had to worry about being pulled over in her car as a black man driving in the wrong ne— I am sick of Negroes who just do not get it.”

“The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.” He also called the United States “the U.S. of KKK A.”

This is also a man who gave an award for man of the year to Louis Farrakhan.

Angela

[Bobmuhthol]

Barack Obama is super not rich.

[thefarmer]

Here, I'll make it easy for you..but then that's it, I'm not getting into a Angela needs to prove herself argument, here. There has been plenty of talk about him being racist and inflammatory, I'm not the only one thinking it.


“Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single-parent home. Barack was.” Mr. Obama “knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich, white people; Hillary would never know that, Hillary ain’t never been called a nigger,”

I see nothing racist or hateful in this segment.


“In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01,” Wright wrote in a church-affiliated magazine. “White America and the western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.”

I'm not sure if 9/11 had much to do with black concerns, but I don't see hate or racism.


In one of his sermons, Wright said, “Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!…We [in the U.S.] believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.”

Hate? Maybe to strong a word. Bitterness possibly. Pointing out what he sees as racism? Sure.


Jesus was a poor black man who lived in a country and who lived in a culture that was controlled by rich white people. The Romans were rich, the Romans were Italian, which means they were European, which means they were white, and the Romans ran everything in Jesus’ country. It just came to me, within the past few weeks, y’all, why so many folks are hatin’ on Barack Obama: He doesn’t fit the mold. He ain’t white, he ain’t rich, and he ain’t privileged. Hillary fits the mold. Europeans fit the mold. Giuliani fits the mold. Rich white men fit the mold. Hillary never had a cab whiz past her and not pick her up because her skin was the wrong color. Hillary never had to worry about being pulled over in her car as a black man driving in the wrong ne— I am sick of Negroes who just do not get it.”


Minus the fact that Jesus wasn't 'black' per se, I don't see anything incorrect about it.


“The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.” He also called the United States “the U.S. of KKK A.”


This is probably the only thing that resembles a hateing/racist comment.

[Gan]

I'd like to see a source for the first statement

Its silly to think that something like that could be sourced when its political suicide (from a candidate's perspective) to admit that it even exists (which doesnt deny the fact that black people are voting for Obama because he's black - I've heard that first hand tyvm) and its just a ssilly to deny its existance for lack of direct proof.

A religious scholar such as yourself should have no trouble accepting something's existance without direct proof. ;)





Amen.

[radamanthys]

The assumption that everyone of a specific race has some sort of negative attribute = racism.

All black people are criminials trying to steal my shit = all white people are racists trying to destroy us.

[Keller]

Shit.. I forgot the rule here.. it's only racist if a white man says it.

My bad :(

If the white man says what? Daniel already asked you to cite the "racist" comments and to articulate why they are racist. But I'll repeat that query with full knowledge that you lack the intellect and/or social responsibility to actually know what the fuck spews forth from your gapping cock-hole of a mouth.

Joke, not funny, laugh at you, not with you, out of pity. You know the routine. It's just more and more true each passing day.

[Daniel]

.



Yea. That's what I thought.

[Daniel]

“Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single-parent home. Barack was.” Mr. Obama “knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich, white people; Hillary would never know that, Hillary ain’t never been called a nigger,”




THE UNBRIDLED HATE!!!!

[Back]

The whole issue is mountains out of molehills. Obama did not say those things and denounced them. The minister is culpable, not anyone else. What he said was not even that bad. I’ve heard and read white people saying some of the exact same things.

The real news is... Obama is winning.

[Daniel]

Man. I hope I get to riot this year.

[Gan]

Let us know if you do, so we can watch the news.

[Daniel]

I'm sure you'd post the news article. ;)

[Gan]

If someone doesnt beat me to it. :)

[Latrinsorm]

You'd see something easily. I wasn't going to do a long post of quotes to make a point, but the ones that he said the weekend after 9/11 are disturbing to me.It's really no different than what Malcolm X said after the JFK assassination (and look, he even used the same phrase! go figure!). You might not like his choice of timing (I know I don't!), but to dismiss his statements as hate-filled racist rhetoric is an emotional knee-jerk response that really has no place in the rational debates you claim to desire so fervently.
which doesnt deny the fact that black people are voting for Obama because he's black - I've heard that first hand tyvmOh I'm sure there are lots of people of all colors voting for Senator Obama because he's black. My inference from what Obama has said so far would be that he at best grudgingly tolerates such votes as a kind of counterweight to those voting for Senator Clinton because she's a woman. It's not a question of "direct proof" so much as a question of "rational inference" - if you have no direct statements from Senator Obama, what has he said so far that would encourage you to think what you've posted?

[Gan]

Oh I'm sure there are lots of people of all colors voting for Senator Obama because he's black. My inference from what Obama has said so far would be that he at best grudgingly tolerates such votes as a kind of counterweight to those voting for Senator Clinton because she's a woman. It's not a question of "direct proof" so much as a question of "rational inference" - if you have no direct statements from Senator Obama, what has he said so far that would encourage you to think what you've posted?

Because its not logical to think that a politician running for office will not accept money or votes from someone voting for them simply because of gender or race. In fact, its not logical to think that any politician would turn down a vote thats cast for that reason, even if they could.

[Fallen]

A spiritual leader of a church called for god to damn America. No one else sees that as questionable?

[Gan]

A spiritual leader of a church called for god to damn America. No one else sees that as questionable?

I find it ironic.

[Crazy Bard]

Oh shut the fuck up, already. If your going to dissect the damn phrase like that then of course it's going to seem questionable.

[Fallen]

Eh, you can argue about taking things out of context, but I don't believe any spiritual leader should be calling upon their god to damn america. I don't care what the reason is.

[Fallen]

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

Nope, still seems like a shitty thing for a spiritual leader to say, especially one who used to preach to the potential President of the United States. Though in his defense, Obama walked away from comments like this.

[Jesuit]

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

Nope, still seems like a shitty thing for a spiritual leader to say, especially one who used to preach to the potential President of the United States. Though in his defense, Obama walked away from comments like this.

He only walked away from the comments after people started hearing about them in the news. The woman who called Hillary Clinton a monster, Samantha Power, hates America and Israel and wrote a book blaming America for the genocide in the world. I'm sorry but I believe a politican only surrounds themselves with people who have the same opinion they do.

[Kefka]

The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.

As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html


He denounced it on Friday and went Hannity and Colmes, as well. This kind of news won't hurt him among Democrats, but it was feared he'd suffer in the general election. He went on Fox News to put independents at ease and it also kills the 'he's a Muslim' rhetoric.

[Back]

Let us know if you do, so we can watch the news.

The revolution will not be televised.


He only walked away from the comments after people started hearing about them in the news. The woman who called Hillary Clinton a monster, Samantha Power, hates America and Israel and wrote a book blaming America for the genocide in the world. I'm sorry but I believe a politican only surrounds themselves with people who have the same opinion they do.

If you follow that logic to its ultimate conclusion, would you be comfortable agreeing with people judging you on what every person you met or knew or associated with you said or did about anything?

Or would you rather people make up their minds about you with what you yourself say?

[Jesuit]

The revolution will not be televised.



If you follow that logic to its ultimate conclusion, would you be comfortable agreeing with people judging you on what every person you met or knew or associated with you said or did about anything?

Or would you rather people make up their minds about you with what you yourself say?

Wouldn't you say there's a big difference between a person someone meets on the street and a person who works on a polticians campaign staff?

[Crazy Bard]

He only walked away from the comments after people started hearing about them in the news. The woman who called Hillary Clinton a monster, Samantha Power, hates America and Israel and wrote a book blaming America for the genocide in the world. I'm sorry but I believe a politican only surrounds themselves with people who have the same opinion they do.

Then I assume your applying this to Hillary, and Ferraro.

[Jesuit]

Then I assume your applying this to Hillary, and Ferraro.

If I were you I wouldn't assume anything. Just a friendly piece of advice.

[Stanley Burrell]

<<"Most recently, you heard some statements from my former pastor that were incendiary and that I completely reject, although I knew him and know him as somebody in my church who talked to me about Jesus and family and friendships.">>

I'm voting for him now more so than ever because of his use of the word incendiary. He can pronounce it better than nuke-u-lar.

The fact that anyone is trying to look this hard for a link in the chain twenty years ago pretty much speaks to their own desperateness. Trying to dig into the history books of religion to push a contemporary agenda is a lost art, unless it relates to politics, I swear to God.

.

Seriously though, doesn't everyone already know Obama would be recruited into wearing a khufi and plotting to blow up America if it weren't for politics.

Also, italics are no longer needed to convey sarcasm. I apologize for your autism.

[Back]

Wouldn't you say there's a big difference between a person someone meets on the street and a person who works on a polticians campaign staff?

Can you answer my initial question with a statement and not another question?

[Jesuit]

Can you answer my initial question with a statement and not another question?

I did. You just need to learn to read between the lines.

[Back]

I did. You just need to learn to read between the lines.

heh. I win the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern game. (+1000 points to anyone who knows what that means)


He only walked away from the comments after people started hearing about them in the news. The woman who called Hillary Clinton a monster, Samantha Power, hates America and Israel and wrote a book blaming America for the genocide in the world. I'm sorry but I believe a politican only surrounds themselves with people who have the same opinion they do.

I ask you again. Does what anyone you know say have any legitimate reflection on you?

[Daniel]

Eh, you can argue about taking things out of context, but I don't believe any spiritual leader should be calling upon their god to damn america. I don't care what the reason is.

Because America is perfect?

[Parkbandit]

Oh shut the fuck up, already. If your going to dissect the damn phrase like that then of course it's going to seem questionable.

Actually, the phrase wasn't dissected. The Good Reverend said something to the effect 'God Bless America? Oh no, God Damn America'

But hey.. he's black. It's all good in the hood.

[Daniel]

Since I'm about to go out and I have a very long next two days I'll follow up my own question.

In the long run I feel that the greatest threat that this country faces is itself. I find it extremely disturbing that so many people subscribe to the notion that the United States is to be lauded simply by virtue of its name. This country is built upon ideals, ideals that I would willingly die for. However, I feel just as strongly that if this country does not uphold those same ideals that it does not deserve my continued service, let alone my respect.

At the end of the day, the future of this country lies not in those who categorically sing its praises but those who question and make sure that we are being honest with ourselves. If we don't then we end up in Iraq with no discernible strategy or we support tax cuts without any sort of consideration for the effects that they will have.

I'm sorry, but accountability if a personal responsibility and if you think that there is any reason that we should never hold ourselves accountable than I don't know what to tell you.

[Back]

Thats quote worthy. And give PB some credit. He did title this thread appropriately.

[Parkbandit]

Since I'm about to go out and I have a very long next two days I'll follow up my own question.

In the long run I feel that the greatest threat that this country faces is itself. I find it extremely disturbing that so many people subscribe to the notion that the United States is to be lauded simply by virtue of its name. This country is built upon ideals, ideals that I would willingly die for. However, I feel just as strongly that if this country does not uphold those same ideals that it does not deserve my continued service, let alone my respect.

At the end of the day, the future of this country lies not in those who categorically sing its praises but those who question and make sure that we are being honest with ourselves. If we don't then we end up in Iraq with no discernible strategy or we support tax cuts without any sort of consideration for the effects that they will have.

I'm sorry, but accountability if a personal responsibility and if you think that there is any reason that we should never hold ourselves accountable than I don't know what to tell you.

You saying anything about personal responsibility is a fucking joke. Thanks for the laugh.

[Daniel]

Oh

and

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/play.shtml?mea=229454

[Daniel]

You saying anything about personal responsibility is a fucking joke. Thanks for the laugh.

Rofl.

You still being stupid enough to post in this thread (or any political thread) is a fucking joke.

[Warriorbird]

Uh... D's employed, not in jail, and not dead. I think he's taken a fair degree of personal responsibility vs. the stereotype.

[Daniel]

The best part is that if I took the time to show how retarded PB is with that statement, you'd have Ganalon come running along to tell me I need to stop talking about myself.

Fortunately, PB knows just as much about my personal responsibility as he does about every other political topic. Read: nothing.

I fully expect a ROFL emoticon in response and a tersely worded phrase such as "You're a joke" in response.

[Gan]

PB is a big boy and doesnt require me coming to any rescue, unlike you're uncanny and predictable rescue attempts with TheE in previous threads.

But thanks for the kudos anyway. ;)

[Daniel]

np.

[Lyonis]

In the long run I feel that the greatest threat that this country faces is itself. I find it extremely disturbing that so many people subscribe to the notion that the United States is to be lauded simply by virtue of its name. This country is built upon ideals, ideals that I would willingly die for. However, I feel just as strongly that if this country does not uphold those same ideals that it does not deserve my continued service, let alone my respect.

At the end of the day, the future of this country lies not in those who categorically sing its praises but those who question and make sure that we are being honest with ourselves. If we don't then we end up in Iraq with no discernible strategy or we support tax cuts without any sort of consideration for the effects that they will have.

I'm sorry, but accountability if a personal responsibility and if you think that there is any reason that we should never hold ourselves accountable than I don't know what to tell you.


Well said. Our 1st amendment rights weren't just put there because it's a nice thing to do, it's so we could tell government to STFU when they were out of line. More than just our right, it's our damn duty to criticize government.

Compare what we waffle stomped the British out of this country for to what blacks and other minorities in this country have endured, and I would say they have a pretty legit gripe.


Man. I hope I get to riot this year.

If you want some early practice, I will be hosting a tour group to riot at the Staples Center following the inevitable championship of the Lakers(I will be ignoring any and all negative comments about our loss to Houston today, I'M LOOKING RIGHT FUCKING AT YOU GAN).

I'll even spray paint a crowbar purple and gold just for you :)

Just think, this could be you...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2000/playoffs/news/2000/06/19/la_violence_ap/lg_riots_ap_01.jpg

[Kembal]

Lyonis, I don't think Gan watches basketball much. I, on the other hand, do. Heheh. (T-Mac only scored 11 points and we still won. That's insane.)

On the subject of Obama's former pastor (the guy just retired a few weeks ago), I'll say this pretty much cancels out Ferraro. Though I gotta say this: Whenever Obama's surrogates say something way out of line, they don't repeat it...they resign from his campaign quickly. (Powers resigned her advisor position almost immediately, and Wright resigned from his honorary position with the campaign within a day or two of the story breaking.) Ferraro not only took over a week to resign, she went on multiple news shows and continued to defend her comment!

What that says to me is that Clinton doesn't have as good rein over her surrogates and staff as Obama does. Assuming campaign managment skills translate into administration management skills, I'll say that I'd be much more comfortable with Obama in the White House than Clinton.

[Parkbandit]

The best part is that if I took the time to show how retarded PB is with that statement, you'd have Ganalon come running along to tell me I need to stop talking about myself.

Fortunately, PB knows just as much about my personal responsibility as he does about every other political topic. Read: nothing.

I fully expect a ROFL emoticon in response and a tersely worded phrase such as "You're a joke" in response.


I was expecting the typical "I have 10x the responsibility you do and make 100x as much as you do in a year" retort.

[Parkbandit]

Lyonis, I don't think Gan watches basketball much. I, on the other hand, do. Heheh. (T-Mac only scored 11 points and we still won. That's insane.)

On the subject of Obama's former pastor (the guy just retired a few weeks ago), I'll say this pretty much cancels out Ferraro. Though I gotta say this: Whenever Obama's surrogates say something way out of line, they don't repeat it...they resign from his campaign quickly. (Powers resigned her advisor position almost immediately, and Wright resigned from his honorary position with the campaign within a day or two of the story breaking.) Ferraro not only took over a week to resign, she went on multiple news shows and continued to defend her comment!

What that says to me is that Clinton doesn't have as good rein over her surrogates and staff as Obama does. Assuming campaign managment skills translate into administration management skills, I'll say that I'd be much more comfortable with Obama in the White House than Clinton.

I don't know. I think Clinton brings up what she wants to bring up.. and stays out when she feels the fires are high enough to not need her fanning.

[Gan]

If you want some early practice, I will be hosting a tour group to riot at the Staples Center following the inevitable championship of the Lakers(I will be ignoring any and all negative comments about our loss to Houston today, I'M LOOKING RIGHT FUCKING AT YOU GAN).


hahaha. Alston was on FIRE last night. And Tmack looked flat. You could tell with the post game interviews that he was not happy with his performance. I wouldnt feel too bad for your lakers though - they were just another team like the 21 teams to fall before them.

:lol:


Lyonis, I don't think Gan watches basketball much. I, on the other hand, do. Heheh. (T-Mac only scored 11 points and we still won. That's insane.)
When I have time I do. I try to follow all of my Htown teams. I just dont watch much TV.

[CrystalTears]

Some of you are discussing this as though it were Obama preaching these sermons. We're not voting for the pastor for heaven's sakes.

[Clove]

...What that says to me is that Clinton doesn't have as good rein over her surrogates and staff as Obama does. Assuming campaign managment skills translate into administration management skills, I'll say that I'd be much more comfortable with Obama in the White House than Clinton.

Good observation.

I really get tired of hearing scandals that revolve around "so-and-so" said "such-and-such" and they're associated with the candidate. I'm really hoping that our political candidates aren't automatons that parrot the sentiments and ideas of their intimates, advisors, associates, party members and staff.

I also personally don't care what religion they participate in and (within reason) how radically it differs from my own beliefs (I mean I have to draw the line at human sacrifice and such). Muslim, Jew, Catholic, Protestant, Athiest, Hindu, or Buddhist- whatever, while religion shapes a persons personal beliefs, I really believe it's a private issue that shouldn't be included in our examination of a leader.

I also don't want to hear about what she does in the bedroom. I don't care if his scout leader was gay, or if he smoked pot when he was 22. I want to see what his political record is like, what her ideas are and how effectively he can inspire people into action.

Of course that's just me. This crap will probably derail Obama this election.

[Parkbandit]

Some of you are discussing this as though it were Obama preaching these sermons. We're not voting for the pastor for heaven's sakes.


You are absolutely correct.

BUT.. my issue is that Obama is running his campaign on Change, Hope and being above this racial divide... yet he chooses a church that has an environment of just the opposite for the past 20 years.. has this reverend conduct his marriage ceremony and baptise his children. He names Wright his spiritual advisor. Needless to say, they were not simply 'acquaintances'.

I can't imagine being a member of any organization where my views and opinions were in direct contrast to the leader's... which is what Obama wants us to believe. So why was he a member of this church for 20 years and make Wright such an important figure in his life?

[Parkbandit]

This crap will probably derail Obama this election.

I doubt it. Obama is a very charismatic and engaging speaker. You are almost forced to like and appreciate him.

But I am glad he is finally getting SOME scrutiny from SOME of the press.

[CrystalTears]

I can't imagine being a member of any organization where my views and opinions were in direct contrast to the leader's... which is what Obama wants us to believe.
Many Catholics don't agree with the Pope but believe in the general good of the faith.

So why was he a member of this church for 20 years and make Wright such an important figure in his life?
Because maybe every sermon wasn't about "racism", and probably felt that the good parts of the religion were worth glossing over some heart-felt sermons that don't represent the general faith.

[Clove]

You are absolutely correct.

BUT.. my issue is that Obama is running his campaign on Change, Hope and being above this racial divide... yet he chooses a church that has an environment of just the opposite for the past 20 years.. has this reverend conduct his marriage ceremony and baptise his children. He names Wright his spiritual advisor. Needless to say, they were not simply 'acquaintances'.

I can't imagine being a member of any organization where my views and opinions were in direct contrast to the leader's... which is what Obama wants us to believe. So why was he a member of this church for 20 years and make Wright such an important figure in his life?

All very good points, however, has Obama's politics been consistent with those sermons we've seen? If not, does that mean he's a "sleeper" waiting to be elected into the highest position of power so he can impose the worst opinions and beliefs of his church on the nation?

Sounds like a Michael Crichton plot.

[Daniel]

Can someone please highlight to me what points were exclusively racist?

Pointing out Hillary didn't grow up a poor black male = racist?

You guys are ridiculous.

A church that is devoted to creating social equality by uplifting disadvantaged is *not* a racist entity and I feel sorry if you really think that.

[Parkbandit]

Can someone please highlight to me what points were exclusively racist?

Pointing out Hillary didn't grow up a poor black male = racist?

You guys are ridiculous.

A church that is devoted to creating social equality by uplifting disadvantaged is *not* a racist entity and I feel sorry if you really think that.

Wright's views are racially divisive.. in direct contrast to what Obama has been preaching for the past year. Obama seems to be looking towards the future, where Wright seems to be stuck in the past.

There's a reason why Obama is distancing himself from Wright.. and rightfully so imo.

[Daniel]

I'd ask you for specifics, but we both know that's a waste of time.

[TheEschaton]

Of course that's just me. This crap will probably derail Obama this election.


You really think so? My roommate thinks so as well, and I think it would be a sad testament to this country if it was true.

[CrystalTears]

You really think so? My roommate thinks so as well, and I think it would be a sad testament to this country if it was true.
Word

[Parkbandit]

I'd ask you for specifics, but we both know that's a waste of time.


Indeed. If you don't have any problem with the videos already posted of Wright's sermons.. or any of the quotes already posted... it's a complete waste of time.

And not a big surprise to most.

[Clove]

You really think so? My roommate thinks so as well, and I think it would be a sad testament to this country if it was true.

It would be, but I do fear that's likely. He may still get the candidacy but if that happens I think it will weaken him enough to give McCain the edge. Public opinion is so easily manipulated by the media, it's just a sad fact of our times.

[Daniel]

Indeed. If you don't have any problem with the videos already posted of Wright's sermons.. or any of the quotes already posted... it's a complete waste of time.

And not a big surprise to most.

I've yet to see a quote from you.

I'm just curious as to what *you* ParkBandit, PC poster extraordinaire find so divisive or racist.

Afterall, did you not make the point, three days ago, that we're too afraid to talk about race in America? Why then are you cowering from making your point?

Man up. Prove that you aren't afraid of the system.

[Parkbandit]

I've yet to see a quote from you.

I'm just curious as to what *you* ParkBandit, PC poster extraordinaire find so divisive or racist.

Afterall, did you not make the point, three days ago, that we're too afraid to talk about race in America? Why then are you cowering from making your point?

Man up. Prove that you aren't afraid of the system.


There are 10 pages of different quotes. It has nothing to do with manning up.. it has to do with you being too lazy to look back through this 10 page thread to find them. It's not hard.. start on page one, move to page two.. and end up on page 10. I've stated my opinion probably 7-8 times already in this thread.

Seriously.. you can't possibly be this lazy, can you?

And I think I've proven over the years I couldn't give two shits what people like you think about me. I actually find solace knowing you have the opposite opinion. I only start to question my own sanity if you agree with me.

[Daniel]

There's one post actually, which has already been broken down.

It's okay. We both know you're pretty bad with numbers.

[Kefka]

You really think so? My roommate thinks so as well, and I think it would be a sad testament to this country if it was true.


I doubt it'll do anything to his campaign. Last time I checked, it was hardly mentioned on any of the main news networks. Story came out on Wednesday and denounced on Friday. I'm actually surprised it took until Sunday for someone to post it up on PC. It's actually great that it's being brought up now. People tend to forgive and forget things that don't affect them personally. Especially in politics.

[Clove]

I doubt it'll do anything to his campaign. Last time I checked, it was hardly mentioned on any of the main news networks. Story came out on Wednesday and denounced on Friday. I'm actually surprised it took until Sunday for someone to post it up on PC. It's actually great that it's being brought up now. People tend to forgive and forget things that don't affect them personally. Especially in politics.

I saw at three minute segment on it on CNN this morning. The story is definitely continuing on major media outlets.

[TheEschaton]

The question is if it bleeds down to regular people. I watch about 4 hours of CNN a day, and I realize this is not normal.

-TheE-

[Gan]

I doubt it'll do anything to his campaign. Last time I checked, it was hardly mentioned on any of the main news networks. Story came out on Wednesday and denounced on Friday. I'm actually surprised it took until Sunday for someone to post it up on PC. It's actually great that it's being brought up now. People tend to forgive and forget things that don't affect them personally. Especially in politics.

Actually, this issue is just starting to catch momentum on the radio talk shows, especially now that some folks have had time to dig into the sermons and also find witnesses to when the sermon was preached and if Obama was there and what his reaction was.

Thinking that this issue is over with the press is a mistake.

[Daniel]

Oh..The bullshit has just begun.

[Kefka]

Actually, this issue is just starting to catch momentum on the radio talk shows, especially now that some folks have had time to dig into the sermons and also find witnesses to when the sermon was preached and if Obama was there and what his reaction was.

Thinking that this issue is over with the press is a mistake.

Well that depends on if you mean conservative talk radio. I doubt they'll let go of anything that could damage their opponent. Just went to CNN and MSNBC's websites and it's not on their main pages. In the political section of CNN, it's mentioned because the church made a statement defending Wright. MSNBC has the story that started this topic under 'other stories.'

[Gan]

You mean there's liberal talk radio?

[Kefka]

You mean there's liberal talk radio?

Yep. It's called Air America. :)

[Parkbandit]

There's one post actually, which has already been broken down.

It's okay. We both know you're pretty bad with numbers.

God.. lazy and stupid. Not a good way to get through life. How again did you get a job making 100x what I make and 10x the responsibility.. if you can't follow a simple 10 page thread?

Here dumbfuck.. I'll give you everything you asked for in one post. First.. all of my posts.



I don't know.. his pastor sounds like a very angry man who blames the whites and America for all the world's woes. I can't believe that after 20 years of going to this church.. performing the marriage ceremony and making him the spiritual advisor of his campaign.. that this is the first time Obama has heard this guy's crazy talk.


Problem is.. this rhetoric spewing pastor has been his pastor for the past 20 years.. conducted his marriage ceremony and baptised his kids. What you are saying is that these two or three sermons were just one time things.

If I was a church going person and my 'spiritual advisor' was using this type of hate speech.. I'm not sure I would go back after the first time.. let alone for the past 20 years.


Oh.. I didn't realize you were close personal friends of the Obamas and can say this with certainty.

Give them my love the next time you are over for dinner.


Sucks to be on the other side.. doesn't it :P

And Ferraro was right.. she wouldn't have been named VP if her name was Gerald Ferraro. OMG SHE R SEXIST NOW!


I doubt anyone is surprised that Daniel doesn't find anything this idiot says as racist or hateful.


Shit.. I forgot the rule here.. it's only racist if a white man says it.

My bad :(


I think it's funny you're arguing on my side... if Clinton was black, you wouldn't be and would be excusing it off.


Actually, the phrase wasn't dissected. The Good Reverend said something to the effect 'God Bless America? Oh no, God Damn America'

But hey.. he's black. It's all good in the hood.


You saying anything about personal responsibility is a fucking joke. Thanks for the laugh.


I was expecting the typical "I have 10x the responsibility you do and make 100x as much as you do in a year" retort.


I don't know. I think Clinton brings up what she wants to bring up.. and stays out when she feels the fires are high enough to not need her fanning.


You are absolutely correct.

BUT.. my issue is that Obama is running his campaign on Change, Hope and being above this racial divide... yet he chooses a church that has an environment of just the opposite for the past 20 years.. has this reverend conduct his marriage ceremony and baptise his children. He names Wright his spiritual advisor. Needless to say, they were not simply 'acquaintances'.

I can't imagine being a member of any organization where my views and opinions were in direct contrast to the leader's... which is what Obama wants us to believe. So why was he a member of this church for 20 years and make Wright such an important figure in his life?


I doubt it. Obama is a very charismatic and engaging speaker. You are almost forced to like and appreciate him.

But I am glad he is finally getting SOME scrutiny from SOME of the press.


Wright's views are racially divisive.. in direct contrast to what Obama has been preaching for the past year. Obama seems to be looking towards the future, where Wright seems to be stuck in the past.

There's a reason why Obama is distancing himself from Wright.. and rightfully so imo.


Indeed. If you don't have any problem with the videos already posted of Wright's sermons.. or any of the quotes already posted... it's a complete waste of time.

And not a big surprise to most.


There are 10 pages of different quotes. It has nothing to do with manning up.. it has to do with you being too lazy to look back through this 10 page thread to find them. It's not hard.. start on page one, move to page two.. and end up on page 10. I've stated my opinion probably 7-8 times already in this thread.

Seriously.. you can't possibly be this lazy, can you?

And I think I've proven over the years I couldn't give two shits what people like you think about me. I actually find solace knowing you have the opposite opinion. I only start to question my own sanity if you agree with me.


Ok.. those are all individual posts.. and I'm sure even you can count that there is more than one (I'm trying to give you the benefit of doubt here... a risk I realize)

Now maybe, you are just stupid and want to say there was only one post where quotes or links to videos were... well, that would be wrong too. Seems, my friend, you have trouble with numbers greated than one...

I won't quote them all here, but there were 4 quotes from Ilvane( to which 3 people repeated them.. including yourself), an instruction from Ilvane, telling you where to go to hear the sermon in question, 5 more quotes from Ilvane and a quote from Fallen.

Now.. if you still need more information.. and can't quite get the grasp of google or Youtube, I've included links for you below to follow.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FnI431s1r6s
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1cQnEhZYVJQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Sfu2P6cGhWo&feature=related


A simple thank you will suffice from you now... and you are most welcome. :)

[Parkbandit]

Yep. It's called Air America. :)


I thought that went bankrupt.. much like it's message?

[Clove]

Well that depends on if you mean conservative talk radio. I doubt they'll let go of anything that could damage their opponent. Just went to CNN and MSNBC's websites and it's not on their main pages. In the political section of CNN, it's mentioned because the church made a statement defending Wright. MSNBC has the story that started this topic under 'other stories.'

What can I tell you man? It was on CNN's morning news show. They played a clip from one of the sermons and discussed the impact for about 2 minutes. Is it getting "breaking news coverage"? No. But the major outlets are covering it.

As for the web page, again it's not headlined as breaking news, but it's being covered and it isn't exactly buried either. On their main page on the Hot Topics line (top of the page), click Election Center and in Election Center click Obama and BOOM there's the story.

Not cramming it down the public's throat/=not spreading the story. Pretty much anyone watching political news is going to keep seeing the story at the moment.

[Daniel]

And out of all that bullshit there is not a single quote of substance for what he actually said and what you find questionable about it.

Congrats.

[Parkbandit]

Eh.. I think Obama coming out and saying he was against this hateful rhetoric should be enough to dispell it... especially with the regular media.

[Parkbandit]

And out of all that bullshit there is not a single quote of substance for what he actually said and what you find questionable about it.

Congrats.

This was far from the "Thank you" I had asked for.

Piss poor imo... you ingrate.

[Daniel]

Actually, in substance Obama rejected the comments about 9\11 and rejected race being made into an issue.

There's a subtle difference from that and racist comments.

[Gan]

Yep. It's called Air America. :)

Is that it?

[Parkbandit]

Actually, in substance Obama rejected the comments about 9\11 and rejected race being made into an issue.

There's a subtle difference from that and racist comments.


"I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies." Obama said on Friday. "I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Reverend Wright that are at issue."

Doesn't sound like he's JUST rejecting comments about 9-11 to me..

[Daniel]

Allies = White people?

[Kefka]

Is that it?

That I know about? Unless you're referring to that mysterious liberal media we keep hearing about.

[CrystalTears]

Good grief, some of you are trying WAY too hard. I guess because he's not as easy to scrutinize as Clinton so you really have to dig deep and nitpick statements to basically make one up.

[Gan]

That I know about? Unless you're referring to that mysterious liberal media we keep hearing about.

Now you're getting somewhere. ;)

[Latrinsorm]

Because its not logical to think that a politician running for office will not accept money or votes from someone voting for them simply because of gender or race. In fact, its not logical to think that any politician would turn down a vote thats cast for that reason, even if they could.Senator Obama isn't "any politician", though, and if there's anyone who has given evidence that he doesn't follow the cynical portrait of politicians you provide, it's him.

And to be absolutely clear: I'm not referring to Obama not especially wanting black peoples' votes but to Obama not especially wanting any peoples' votes that come about due to his personal blackness.
A spiritual leader of a church called for god to damn America. No one else sees that as questionable?It would only be questionable if one takes the position that America has never done anything wrong. I respectfully suggest that this is not a position one would rationally expect a black person who was alive in the 40s to take.
yet he chooses a church that has an environment of just the opposite for the past 20 yearsA rebuttal from the church in question:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/846305,CST-EDT-trinity17.article
Highlight:
"It saddens me to see news stories reporting such a caricature of a congregation that has been such a blessing,"

[TheEschaton]

A very apropos op/ed article...
-------------------------

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/15/AR2008031501004.html?sub=AR

Offense Taken
By Michael Kinsley
Saturday, March 15, 2008; 8:30 AM

First of all, I unequivocally dissociate myself from remarks by my second cousin to the effect that my worthy opponent is a "prize bitch." My cousin is a dog breeder and thought she was being complimentary. She did not appreciate that such phraseology could give offense to certain segments of the population who are unfamiliar with dogs. Nevertheless, there is no room for canine imagery in a national political campaign, and Cousin Maisie has dropped out of our family in order to avoid causing any distraction from the central issues that we ought to be debating, such as terrorism and health care.

In that spirit, I call upon my opponent to say that she forthrightly rejects statements made by her hairdresser, and caught on videotape, that "black people have curly hair." This stereotype has a long history of use by racists, and, quite frankly, the facts that this hairdresser is black and serves mostly black customers and obviously had no intention of causing offense and doesn't really know my opponent at all and has never done her hair until once last week and only made the statement when pressed by a group of reporters to reflect on the differences between the candidates from her professional point of view, do not make her remark "okay" or "totally irrelevant, for Christ's sake -- can't we talk about something important?" -- as some commentators have suggested.

Am I offended by this remark? Well, I'm working on it. At first I thought, "Well, honestly, who gives a #@$?" But I have come to realize that my opponent will stop at nothing in her insatiable quest for remarks by me and others to rip out of context and take umbrage over, and I have reluctantly concluded that there cannot be unilateral disarmament here. So, yes, I am deeply, deeply offended.

Is this part of a scheme by my opponent to introduce race into the campaign? That's not for me to say. It is my job to talk about the issues, such as health care and the subprime mortgage crisis. It is your job as members of the press to ignore all that boring crap and to fan the flames of phony issues with no evidence whatsoever, and I call upon you to do your job.

For example, when a member of my first grade Sunday School class was quoted in the Honolulu Luau-Advertiser as saying about my distinguished opponent, "This lady's tough," many right-wing radio talk show hosts took offense and accused me of promoting outmoded sexist stereotypes. I could have said, "Huh?" Or, "Look, I don't even remember this guy." Or, "For heaven's sake, what's wrong with saying 'This lady's tough'?" Or even, "I really don't need lessons in feminism from you guys." And in fact I did say all of that.

But when it became clear that all this wasn't going to be enough to make the controversy go away, I was forthright in admitting that there is no room for such comments in a campaign, and in dissociating myself from this guy by sending thugs to give him a lesson he won't forget. That is how I will deal with sexists when I am president of the United States. From day one. Or maybe day three or day four. Give me a break.

Let me be absolutely clear where I stand on all of this. There is no room for sexism in a modern political campaign. There is no room for racism either. There is no room for remarks that could reasonably be interpreted as sexist or racist. In fact, given the history of sexism and racism in this country, there is no room for remarks that could even be willfully misinterpreted as sexist or racist. There is no room for rudeness, or for the appearance of rudeness. There is no room for comments of any sort by anybody a candidate might have met under any circumstances in the course of his or her life, unless they have been vetted for sexism, racism, rudeness, or the appearance of these qualities by the campaign's senior staff. There is no room for unfair accusations that the opposition candidate has engaged in sexist, racist or rude remarks, or that anyone he or she has ever met has engaged in such remarks. And of course there is also no room for perfectly fair accusations of this sort, which can be misinterpreted, and usually are.

Basically, in the modern political campaign, there is no room for remarks of any sort on any subject which could be interpreted as giving offense to anyone, and that covers just about every subject there is. Therefore, my campaign will enter a cone of silence from now until I am sworn in as president next January. And I call upon my distinguished opponent and her campaign to do the same. The stakes in this election are much too high for anyone to say anything.

Michael Kinsley is a columnist for Time magazine and for washingtonpost.com.

[Clove]

Thanks E, that was a good article.

I wonder if this whole thing works in reverse though? Would we be more comfortable with a candidate's leadership ability if they attended some church that was headed by say a winner of the Nobel Peace prize? Or would we say, "well he has good taste in churches but just because his pastor is a great man of peace, doesn't make HIM one."

[Parkbandit]

Thanks E, that was a good article.

I wonder if this whole thing works in reverse though? Would we be more comfortable with a candidate's leadership ability if they attended some church that was headed by say a winner of the Nobel Peace prize?

HELL YEA!

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/agore.jpg

[Gan]

This promises to be one of the best election seasons in history. I'm glad I'm sitting on the front row to watch.


:popcorn:

[Clove]

This promises to be one of the best election seasons in history. I'm glad I'm sitting on the front row to watch.


:popcorn:

Definitely the best election race in my lifetime. I'd check with PB on whether it was the best in our country's history or not.

:love:

[Parkbandit]

Are you really surprised that Michael Kinsley isn't offended? He's a self proclaimed liberal political pundit.

[Parkbandit]

Definitely the best election race in my lifetime. I'd check with PB on whether it was the best in our country's history or not.

:love:


>>H8U

[Nieninque]

http://www.planetdan.net/pics/misc/midget2.gif

[Keller]

Good grief, some of you are trying WAY too hard. I guess because he's not as easy to scrutinize as Clinton so you really have to dig deep and nitpick statements to basically make one up.

Further, there is a difference between scrutiny and regurgitating Rush's weekly soap-box without knowing what the fuck you're even trying to prove.

All ParkTroll has said in this thread is, "He was his pastor for 20 years. He claimed he was his spiritual advisor. He baptised his kids. He made racist remarks."

Ilvane posted the remarks and a few people (I've forgotten who) stated some arguments for why they were racist. ParkTroll has just repeated, as if it's his weekly Rush-mantra, that the pastor made racist remarks.

Let's not give ParkTroll too much credit. I think scrutiny is entirely too strong. Scrutiny requires some sort of analysis.

[Clove]

...All ParkTroll has said... ParkTroll has just repeated...Let's not give ParkTroll too much credit...

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/HPM/SM1082~Cripple-Fight-Posters.jpg

[Stanley Burrell]

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/HPM/SM1082~Cripple-Fight-Posters.jpg

One of, if not, the greatest SP scenes ever.

:thumbup:, even though anyone arguing with OLD Bandito instantly becomes a Monk and/or Savant by comparison. You score those tickets on 99.1?

[Parkbandit]

:rofl:

It's amazing how much better life is when you put someone with no redeeming qualities on ignore both here and in WoW.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/Silencethedumbfuck.jpg

[Daniel]

Lol @ PB being a vagina.

[Warriorbird]

Ignoring someone in WoW and on the PC over politics?

Ha ha ha.

Gonna take your toys and go home PB?

[Stanley Burrell]

:rofl:

It's amazing how much better life is when you put someone with no redeeming qualities on ignore both here and in WoW.

I think I actually believe you. And I'm sincerely sorry.

[Parkbandit]

Ignoring someone in WoW and on the PC over politics?

Ha ha ha.

Gonna take your toys and go home PB?

Yea.. he's the one individual I have on ignore. I don't even ignore goldspammers.

And it has zero to do with politics and everything to do with him being a repulsive piece of shit. If it were to do with politics, there are far more people I disagree with politically. Heck, I don't even have Stainley on ignore.. I just skip over most of his diarrhea posts.

[Keller]

Ignoring someone in WoW and on the PC over politics?

Ha ha ha.

Gonna take your toys and go home PB?

It's actually because one day I snapped.

It was in the Bhutto thread. PTroll kept repeating his weekly-mantra that Bhutto should have known better than to appear publicly vulnerable to physical attacks. Then when TheE questioned him on how he could say an assassinated leader played some role in her own death he became indignant and said something along the lines of, ":rofl: you're a fucking idiot for thinking I said it was her fault. That's not at all what I said you fucking idiot."

This went back and forth with TheE relatively calmly trying to explain why PT had said exactly that and PT not doing anything more than saying, essentially, "You're wrong you 'tard." After this happened for about 2-3 pages of the thread I had one of those clarity moments. You know when the clouds part and you recognize the undeniable truth of something?

That's the type of moment I had when I realized that PT was nothing but a joke. He went around from thread to thread finding ways to blend ignorant hyperbole with unjustified personal attacks. Further, in an unjustied attack of my own I advised him that he should stop playing video games 6 hours a day in order to keep his daughters out of the whorehouse. He got butthurt and ignored me.

[Warriorbird]

Holy crap. Daaamn.

[Gan]

Further, in an unjustied attack of my own I advised him that he should stop playing video games 6 hours a day in order to keep his daughters out of the whorehouse. He got butthurt and ignored me.

Yea, not a high point for you. Several of us thought that was a pretty shitty thing to say to anyone regardless if its said in person or on the internet.

Its one thing to attack the poster; but attacking the children of said poster is pretty cheap.

[Parkbandit]

Yea, not a high point for you. Several of us thought that was a pretty shitty thing to say to anyone regardless if its said in person or on the internet.

Its one thing to attack the poster; but attacking the children of said poster is pretty cheap.


:rofl:

That wasn't really why I ignored him... but that was the last straw. After that, I had people send me PMs, emails and tells in WoW of "I told you so" about him. I had considered him someone I would routinely stand up for... but finally had the "ah ha" moment when I realized he certainly wasn't worth it.

It was amazing how many people really dislike him.. and how I was so blind to it before.

[Keller]

Yea, not a high point for you. Several of us thought that was a pretty shitty thing to say to anyone regardless if its said in person or on the internet.

Its one thing to attack the poster; but attacking the children of said poster is pretty cheap.

Like I said, it was unjustified and not at all something I'm proud of. That said, it was at it's base it was a critique of his parenting and not of his daughters.

Maybe it was the precedent set by my parents, sisters (who between them have 7 daughters), and other family members -- but I've never known a parent to spend that type of time playing a game.

[Keller]

:rofl:

That wasn't really why I ignored him... but that was the last straw. After that, I had people send me PMs, emails and tells in WoW of "I told you so" about him. I had considered him someone I would routinely stand up for... but finally had the "ah ha" moment when I realized he certainly wasn't worth it.

It was amazing how many people really dislike him.. and how I was so blind to it before.

:rofl: + hyperbole = normal PB post.

This one could use a little more personal insult though.