View Full Version : Democrats: Where to from here?
Parkbandit
03-05-2008, 09:52 AM
God.. last night was perfect if you love long, drawn out fights in the Democratic Party. Now, where do we go from here?
Upcoming:
3/8 - Wyoming - 18
3/11 - Mississippi - 40
4/22 - Pennsylvania - 188
5/3 - Guam - 9
5/6 - North Carolina - 134
5/6 - Indiana - 84
5/13 - West VA - 39
5/20 - Kentucky - 60
5/20 - Oregon - 65
6/3 - Montana - 24
6/3 - North Dakota - 23
6/7 - Puerto Rico - 63
Still PLENTY of delegates up for grabs. Unfortunately, for Hillary, they aren't all or nothing states, so she'll have to continue just being a Clinton and do whatever it takes to win. Her wins last night should give her some momentum, but with 4 states in the south where Obama has been dominate, it's going to take an April or May surprise to secure this nomination.
3/8 - Wyoming - 18 (Hillary)
3/11 - Mississippi - 40 (Obama)
4/22 - Pennsylvania - 188 (Hillary)
5/3 - Guam - 9 (Obama)
5/6 - North Carolina - 134 (Obama)
5/6 - Indiana - 84 (Hillary)
5/13 - West VA - 39 (Hillary)
5/20 - Kentucky - 60 (Hillary)
5/20 - Oregon - 65 (Hillary)
6/3 - Montana - 24 (Hillary)
6/3 - North Dakota - 23 (Hillary)
6/7 - Puerto Rico - 63 (Hillary)
Yea, too bad its not all or nothing. (My predictions are in parenthesis)
Parkbandit
03-05-2008, 10:09 AM
If those predictions come true.. I'll be actually tuning into the Democratic Convention just to watch Hillary wrangle the nomination away from the "people"
Arkans
03-05-2008, 10:15 AM
Speaking of Hillary...
That avatar is just about the creepiest thing I have ever seen.
- Arkans
*as if mine is any better*
Solkern
03-05-2008, 10:17 AM
Hill Dog Will come through
She's a fighter, she'll be our next president, and one of the best.
TheEschaton
03-05-2008, 10:19 AM
I agree with Gan's predicitions for now, except for Oregon, which I think will go Obama.
CrystalTears
03-05-2008, 10:22 AM
Hill Dog Will come through
She's a fighter, she'll be our next president, and one of the best.
The hell she will.
Suppa Hobbit Mage
03-05-2008, 10:22 AM
Hill Dog Will come through
She's a fighter, she'll be our next president, and one of the best.
LMAO. This is good stuff. "one of the best" Damn, I laugh out loud at that.
http://www.clevelandseniors.com/images/quiz/famous/bill-hillary-clinton.jpg
TheEschaton
03-05-2008, 10:27 AM
That pic only wants to make me vote for her (and him) even more, SHM.
-TheE-
Suppa Hobbit Mage
03-05-2008, 10:29 AM
I bet. I don't see anything wrong with it myself, I just googled crazy hillary and saw that and thought it was funny.
Ilvane
03-05-2008, 10:46 AM
I bet Florida and Michigan are going to do redos at this rate.
Angela
CrystalTears
03-05-2008, 10:54 AM
They had their chance. Fuck em.
Suppa Hobbit Mage
03-05-2008, 10:56 AM
Hanging Chads!
Lord Nelek
03-05-2008, 12:05 PM
The person who wins Ohio wins the presidency. At least that's what history has shown.
Who won Ohio last night?
Some Rogue
03-05-2008, 12:12 PM
The person who wins Ohio wins the presidency. At least that's what history has shown.
Who won Ohio last night?
McCain.
Jenisi
03-05-2008, 12:18 PM
Fuck Hillary. Fuck Texas and Ohio.
TheEschaton
03-05-2008, 12:20 PM
Fuck you.
Suppa Hobbit Mage
03-05-2008, 12:21 PM
No, fuck you!
In other news. Have you ever seen a grown man naked? Do you like gladiator movies? What's your vector, Victor?
Jenisi
03-05-2008, 12:21 PM
FUCK YOU
Kembal
03-05-2008, 12:32 PM
Wyoming's a caucus state, not a primary state. Obama will win that, and coupled with Mississippi, I expect the net change in delegates to be zero by next Tuesday.
This is going to go to the convention. :/
Originally Posted by SHM
In other news. Have you ever seen a grown man naked? Do you like gladiator movies? What's your vector, Victor?
Do you speak jive?
Nieninque
03-05-2008, 12:53 PM
Have you ever been locked in a Turkish prison?
Would you like to play a game?
Parkbandit
03-05-2008, 01:41 PM
Wyoming's a caucus state, not a primary state. Obama will win that, and coupled with Mississippi, I expect the net change in delegates to be zero by next Tuesday.
This is going to go to the convention. :/
And where Obama will have the lead in delegates.. and Hillary will end up with the nomination.
THEN the fun can begin.
And where Obama will have the lead in delegates.. and Hillary will end up with the nomination.
THEN the fun can begin.
Its going to get ugly if that happens.
Ugh.
I think I'll stock up on ammo.
Daniel
03-05-2008, 05:42 PM
I'm holding out for the Obama assassination attempt myself.
Definately not the time to consider going into the secret service if thats the case.
Doesn’t matter who gets the nod. Clinton or Obama. Democrats will get the presidency and hold majority in Congress in '09.
Thats a prediction you can bank on.
Doesn’t matter who gets the nod. Clinton or Obama. Democrats will get the presidency and hold majority in Congress in '09.
Thats a prediction you can bank on.
And the Pundit speaks...
:lol:
Parkbandit
03-06-2008, 07:39 AM
Doesn’t matter who gets the nod. Clinton or Obama. Democrats will get the presidency and hold majority in Congress in '09.
Thats a prediction you can bank on.
That gives me a warm, cozy feeling in this time of uncertainty. You've never been correct in any political thread. I think this almost guarantees a Semi-Republican Presidency... ala- John McCain.
And now Florida (representing 210 Democratic delegate votes) and Michigan (representing 156 Democratic delegate votes) wants their votes counted.
Even though the DNC stripped them of their votes for not conforming to the DNC approved caucus dates, should the DNC reverse its decision and allow the votes to be counted?
Is this just a procedural snafu or is it unAmerican?
You decide.
________________________________________________
(CNN) -- Florida and Michigan could go from having no say in the Democratic nominating process to deciding the nominee if their states' political leaders succeed in getting their delegates seated.
The Democratic National Committee stripped both states of their delegates for violating party rules by scheduling their primaries too early.
But Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are running such a tight race that it looks like neither candidate will get the 2,025 delegates needed to clinch the nomination.
If Florida and Michigan count, their delegates could put either candidate over the top. The states have 366 pledged delegates and superdelegates between them.
more...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/06/dems.delegates/index.html
ElanthianSiren
03-06-2008, 12:40 PM
It's nice to have your primary vote count again; since PA is close to last, it's usually all over by the time we vote here. Screw florida and michigan. -Can't follow the rules, don't play the game.
Clove
03-06-2008, 12:46 PM
Would you like to play a game?
How about global thermonuclear war?
Clove
03-06-2008, 12:59 PM
I'm hoping that MI and FL stay out. Neither candidate gets the required delegates and it gets settled in a no-holds barred Obama v Hillary wrestling match. Now THAT would be a convention!
ElanthianSiren
03-06-2008, 01:03 PM
Ahhh but do you REALLY want to see Hillary's thighs in a G.L.O.W style 80s outfit?
http://www.gorgeousladiesofwrestling.com/86.jpg
Lord Nelek
03-06-2008, 01:50 PM
Did Florida and Michigan vote?
Who won those states?
Did Florida and Michigan vote?
Who won those states?
Florida Democratic presidential primary, 2008[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Democratic_primary%2C_2008#_note-13)
Candidate Votes Percentage National delegates
Hillary Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton) 870,986 49.77% 0 [105]
Barack Obama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama) 576,214 32.93% 0 [67]
John Edwards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edwards) 251,562 14.38% 0 [13]
Joe Biden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden) 15,704 0.90% 0
Bill Richardson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Richardson) 14,999 0.86% 0
Dennis Kucinich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kucinich) 9,703 0.55% 0
Christopher Dodd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dodd) 5,477 0.31% 0
Mike Gravel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gravel) 5,275 0.30% 0
Totals 1,749,920 100.00% 0 [185]
Michigan Democratic presidential primary, 2008[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Democratic_primary%2C_2008#_note-9)
Candidate Votes Percentage National delegates
Hillary Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton) 328,309 55.23% 0 [73]
Dennis Kucinich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kucinich) 21,715 3.65% 0
Christopher Dodd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dodd) 3,845 0.65% 0
Mike Gravel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gravel) 2,361 0.40% 0
Uncommitted 238,168 40.07% 0 [55]
Totals 594,398 100.00% 0 [128]
Courtesy of Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Democratic_primary%2C_2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Democratic_primary%2C_2008
CrystalTears
03-06-2008, 02:26 PM
That's the only reason she wanted them redone. She hadn't been saying dick about it until she won Ohio and Texas.
Some Rogue
03-06-2008, 02:29 PM
Notice Obama was not even on the Michigan ballot...and neither of them campaigned in either state. I'd bet if they did it over, Obama would win Michigan.
Notice Obama was not even on the Michigan ballot...and neither of them campaigned in either state. I'd bet if they did it over, Obama would win Michigan.
/Agreed
Atlanteax
03-06-2008, 02:43 PM
I hope they seat both Florida and Michigan, and do not require the primaries to be held again.
TheEschaton
03-06-2008, 02:54 PM
MI would be a tossup. It's very much like OH, but then again, it's also very much like WI.
-TheE-
Some Rogue
03-06-2008, 02:56 PM
I think I read somewhere that Jesse Jackson won MI the last time he ran....I'd be surprised if Obama couldn't pull that state too.
I hope they seat both Florida and Michigan, and do not require the primaries to be held again.
Racist.
Either way its down to super delegates at this point. Senator Obama has maintained his lead with delegates despite Senator Clinton winning two heavily populated states.
Interestingly the county map results in TX look like the general election results of the '04 presidency nationwide. Heavily populated = Senator Obama win. BFE = Senator Clinton win. Extrapolate that any way you want.
Personally I don’t believe in these absurd riot or assassination notions. Its alarmist rhetoric. Meaning, drama queens making drama out of nothing.
Personally I don’t believe in these absurd riot or assassination notions. Its alarmist rhetoric. Meaning, drama queens making drama out of nothing.
Right, because thats never happened before.
Right, because thats never happened before.
Oh really? When was that, Google Jr.?
Oh really? When was that, Google Jr.?
You seriously have to ask when the last time there was riots/violence in the black community when a racially charged issue favored the white establishment?
I'll help you a little. All without Googling either.
Rodney King and the acquittal of the officers who were accused of beating him.
Watts riots
Take the blinders off boy.
HATTIESBURG, Miss. (AP) - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton on Friday again raised the possibility that she might run with rival Sen. Barack Obama on the same Democratic presidential ticket.
Speaking to voters in Mississippi, where Sen. Barack Obama is expected to do well in next week's primary, Clinton said, "I've had people say, 'Well I wish I could vote for both of you. Well, that might be possible some day. But first I need your vote on Tuesday."
It is the second time this week that she has hinted at a joint ticket with the Illinois senator; he has not ruled it out but says it is premature to be having those discussions.
The town hall meeting (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=) at a train depot in Hattiesburg was Clinton's second appearance in Mississippi, where 33 delegates will be allocated in its Democratic presidential primary Tuesday.
Clinton has already sought to lower expectations for the contest in this state where Obama is expected to do well, largely because of his increasing appeal among black voters.
Mississippi's population is 37 percent black.
"I know that I may have an uphill battle (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=) here in the state, I appreciate that," Clinton said.
But even if she does not win the state, Clinton is trying to collect as many delegates as she can now that the race has turned into a numbers game; she slightly narrowed the gap with Obama this week when she won three primaries in Ohio, Texas and Rhode Island (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=).
Perhaps mindful that her audiences in Mississippi might view Obama favorably, Clinton has leaned more towards criticizing the Bush administration (http://search.breitbart.com/q?s=) and has mostly refrained from direct attacks on her opponent.
She told the Mississippi audience that the Labor Department's report on Friday showing a loss of 63,000 jobs nationwide in February is an alarming sign of economic troubles.
more...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8V8NN6O4&show_article=1
__________________________________________________ ___________
Amazingly enough she sees this as a viable alternative - I wonder if she's considering the possibility of being the VP on said ticket when she says that.. or if she's just pandering to the audience.
I seriously do not think she'll run as VP on an Obama/Clinton ticket. And I would find it very hard to believe that Obama would run under Clinton's ticket as VP. Not to mention what implications that might have for those who are voting for Obama based on race.
It's extremely strategic for her to allude to those claims and the fact that his camp isn't outright denying that it will never be a possibility makes it all the more believable for the much less informed voter.
CrystalTears
03-07-2008, 01:57 PM
As much as I don't like Hillary, I wouldn't mind seeing an Obama/Hillary ticket. I'd actually consider them for my vote. But I have a feeling she's hinting that he would be the VP, which is why she's saying "vote for me", and as that, I wouldn't vote for them.
Kembal
03-07-2008, 03:24 PM
Hillary is not interested in a joint ticket. She's trying to confuse voters into thinking she can be a unifier. Or that the superdelegates should back her.
If she was interested in a joint ticket, she wouldn't be promoting McCain's credentials over Obama.
Parkbandit
03-07-2008, 03:36 PM
I actually think she IS interested in a joint ticket.. but as her as the nominee and Obama taking a back seat to her. Makes perfect sense for her.
I doubt if Obama gets the nomination though, that he would select her as his VP. She has far too many negatives... especially on his campaign based on "Hope"
Bobmuhthol
03-07-2008, 03:38 PM
Obama would be a complete idiot to campaign with her for the general election, if he cares at all about his integrity.
Parkbandit
03-07-2008, 03:40 PM
Obama would be a complete idiot to campaign with her for the general election, if he cares at all about his integrity.
Yea.. from Obama's standpoint.. I think it would be smarter for him to wait for her to lose the election.. then run a campaign in 4 years.
Yea.. from Obama's standpoint.. I think it would be smarter for him to wait for her to lose the election.. then run a campaign in 4 years.
/Agreed.
He could set up all of his efforts, legislation, etc. to prepare for a run 4 years from now. And with 4 more years of senatoral experience behind him, his inexperience couldnt be used against him in that context.
His political career is just starting, so he's got time for long range strategy. Which is something that Hillary doesnt have.
Kembal
03-07-2008, 05:35 PM
He wouldn't have the grassroots effort in 4 years that he has now. Literally, his campaign is creating whole new state ground-level organizations, whereas Hillary is just co-opting establishment organizations from state governors/senators/congressmen. If he can get the nomination, Obama'll be poised to decisively win by having organizations in all 50 states. (As opposed to Hilliary, whose electoral college strategy will almost certainly hinge on Florida. And I don't think the Dems will take Florida this year.)
You seriously have to ask when the last time there was riots/violence in the black community when a racially charged issue favored the white establishment?
When you put it in that context, well, duh... I was referring specifically to this primary being decided by super delegates. If that happens I don’t see rioting and think its quite a stretch to suggest there would be.
I agree with most of the posts on the Clinton/Obama ticket. Its like she is trying to ride his coattails by suggesting that. He would never take her up as VP. Would he become her VP? That might not be so far fetched.
When you put it in that context, well, duh... I was referring specifically to this primary being decided by super delegates. If that happens I don’t see rioting and think its quite a stretch to suggest there would be.
Put it in that context? Its the context of the fucking thread (and my posts that you attempted to contradict with your retarded Google jr. remark), idiot. Reading comprehension FTL.
:banghead:
Are we to expect riots and other violence if Obama is cheated out of the will of the people by the superdelegates? (If you can really call the superdelegates not being the will of the people.)
I was referring to this, drama queen.
Tsa`ah
03-08-2008, 02:55 AM
When you put it in that context, well, duh... I was referring specifically to this primary being decided by super delegates. If that happens I don’t see rioting and think its quite a stretch to suggest there would be.
Chicago DNC 1968
At this point it's nearly impossible for Clinton to pass Obama in pledged delegates. The pro-Clinton brokered convention argument is that she won the "big" dem states ... which is an assinine argument. It suggests that because she won them, Obama can't.
Clinton getting the nod isn't something that will be taken sitting down.
I was referring to this, drama queen.
Again, reading comprehension FTL.
Reread the thread and the sequence of posts and perhaps you'll understand - or have someone read them to you.
thefarmer
03-08-2008, 03:40 AM
I seriously do not think she'll run as VP on an Obama/Clinton ticket. And I would find it very hard to believe that Obama would run under Clinton's ticket as VP. Not to mention what implications that might have for those who are voting for Obama based on race.
The Clinton's have always had a strong base among the black community, I don't see this particular part being a problem.
I think it would be more of a problem among those younger voters (For Obama) that are looking for a change (Which Obama has been advocating), and associating Clinton as part of the old guard.
The Clinton's have always had a strong base among the black community, I don't see this particular part being a problem.
I think it would be more of a problem among those younger voters (For Obama) that are looking for a change (Which Obama has been advocating), and associating Clinton as part of the old guard.
It'll be a problem in several ways, in my opinion, for the voters of Obama.
Obama stepping back to VP slot with so many votes from the DNC voting population would represent:
Bowing down to the white establishment. While not a big deal to some, its a huge deal to those voting on color.
Stepping back from the role of a strong black male leader to a subservient role under a white female president. Again, a pretty big deal for those voting on color. (He can keep her cigar box stocked)
Not representing the mandate/change you mentioned earlier that is responsible for all of the momentum behind him.
(CNN) — Even as Hillary Clinton's campaign attacked her rival, Barack Obama, for failing to "deliver on his promises," her husband, former President Bill Clinton said Saturday that a joint ticket pairing the two would be "almost unstoppable."
The former president referred to his wife's own comments that indicated a willingness to consider the prospect. "She said yesterday and she said the day after her big wins in Texas and Ohio and Rhode Island that she was very open to that and I think she answered explicitly 'Yes' yesterday," said Clinton during a Mississippi campaign appearance.
"I know that she has always been open to it, because she believes that if you can unite the energy and the new people that he's brought in and the people in these vast swaths of small town and rural America that she's carried overwhelmingly, if you had those two things together she thinks it'd be hard to beat."
He added that, in his view, Obama would win the "urban areas and the upscale voters" while Clinton claims "the traditional rural areas that we lost when President Reagan was president. If you put those two things together, you'd have an almost unstoppable force."
Hillary Clinton told a CBS interviewer earlier this week, shortly after she ended a string of 11 losses with wins in Texas, Ohio and Rhode Island, that a joint ticket "may be where this is headed. But of course we have to decide who is on the top of ticket. I think the people of Ohio very clearly said that it should be me."
The New York senator has made the suggestion in other interviews, as have her campaign surrogates. On Friday, Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell told the National Journal that it was important for the winner of the Democratic nomination to make the offer to the runner-up this year.
The Obama team has largely avoided making similar statements.
UPDATE: In an interview with CNN affiliate KTVQ in Billings, Montana, Obama called the notion "premature," saying he has won twice as many states as Clinton and a greater share of the popular vote, and he believes he can maintain a delegate lead.
"You won't see me as a vice presidential candidate, you know, I'm running for president," said Obama.
–CNN Associate Political Editor Rebecca Sinderbrand
TheEschaton
03-09-2008, 02:22 PM
Now the question is: Is Hillary still willing to be a VP?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00274/cartoon-385_274229a.jpg
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00289/Peter_Brookes_289728a.jpg
Methais
03-09-2008, 03:53 PM
Is it just me or does Obama look like The Rock, but with AIDS?
http://www.celebrityvalues.com/images/the_rock_300.jpg http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/resources/graphic/large/ObamaBarack.jpg
Latrinsorm
03-09-2008, 10:01 PM
He looks like how the Rock would look if the Rock was Barack Obama.
Tsa`ah
03-10-2008, 03:29 AM
Is it just me or does Obama look like The Rock, but with AIDS?
They certainly sound similar ... hence my bother and I referring to him as Barack "the Rock" Obama at every opportunity.
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