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Gan
02-24-2008, 11:24 AM
February 21, 2008
By Victor Davis Hanson (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/author/victor_davis_hanson/)

The rhetoric of Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton about the sad state of America is reminiscent of the suspect populism of John Edwards, the millionaire lawyer who recently dropped out of the Democratic presidential race.

Barack Obama may have gone to exclusive private schools. He and his wife may both be lawyers who between them have earned four expensive Ivy League degrees. They may make about a million dollars a year, live in an expensive home and send their kids to prep school. But they are still apparently first-hand witnesses to how the American dream has gone sour. Two other Ivy League lawyers, Hillary and Bill, are multimillionaires who have found America to be a land of riches beyond most people's imaginations. But Hillary also talks of the tragic lost dream of America.

In these gloom-and-doom narratives by the well off, we less fortunate Americans are doing almost everything right, but still are not living as well as we deserve to be. And the common culprit is a government that is not doing enough good for us, and corporations that do too much bad to us.

In the new pessimistic indictment, the home mortgage meltdown has not occurred because too many speculative buyers were hoping to flip houses for quick profits. It had nothing to do with misguided attempts of government and lending institutions to put first-time buyers in homes through zero-down payments, interest-only loans, and subprime but adjustable mortgage rates - as part of liberal efforts to increase home ownership rates.

And there apparently are few Americans who unwisely borrowed against their homes a second and third time to remodel or purchase big-ticket consumer items - on the belief that their equity would always be rising faster than their debts. Nor are we to look at this downturn as part of a historical boom-and-bust cycle in the housing industry - the present low prices and non-performing loans the natural counter-response to the overpriced real estate of the last five years.

Likewise, students are failing to graduate from college because there are too few government-guaranteed student loans. We don't hear that thousands enter public universities without basic reading and mathematical skills - or that their college problems might in part be the fault of their own misplaced priorities in high school, and in part the fault of an educational system that is mostly therapeutic, offering fluffy courses and self-esteem training rather than rigorous math, science, literature and history classes. Nor is there ever mention of teachers' unions, the system of tenure, or a vapid, politically correct curriculum, as explanations why our students are not competitive in the global marketplace.

We also hear that oil prices are sky high and our own automobile industry is failing due to windfall profits and corporate greed, but there's no discussion of the fact that oil-rich autocracies like Russia, Venezuela and the Gulf monarchies have obtained a stranglehold on the global petroleum supply.

For Hillary and Barack, our automobile manufacturing crisis is not the result of uniquely lavish union health and retirement packages for American autoworkers. The government is somehow mostly to blame for Detroit's meltdown and the energy crisis, not Americans' own tastes in the 1990s for large gas-guzzlers and big homes, and their concurrent opposition to nuclear power plants, oil drilling off the coasts and in Alaska, and conservation of resources.

Wal-Mart, free trade and our debt to China also come in for blame. Neither Obama nor Clinton suggests that the middle classes of America have more purchasing power and have accumulated more consumer goods than any people in history. In reality, our acquisitiveness is a result not of corporate greed, but of our fondness for shopping at discounted warehouse mega-stores, whose goods are the result of hard work of hundreds of millions of low-paid Chinese. They not only toil long hours to make our cheap televisions and stereos, but their government lends us the money at low interest - through massive buying of U.S. government bonds - to buy their stuff in the first place.

To the extent that we have any social and legal problems from unchecked illegal immigration, it has nothing to do with the cynicism and corruption of the Mexican government that deliberately exports, exploits and profits off its own people. The problem is not the fondness for low-paid, off-the-books illegal labor among the upper-middle classes, nor the disdain for the law of illegal immigrants themselves, who crowd to the front of the immigration line. Instead, America's xenophobia, blame-casting and insensitive government have made it needlessly rough on 11 million arrivals who otherwise did us a favor by coming.

As Sens. Obama and Clinton try to outdo each other in blaming government for our lack of individual responsibility and promising solutions by raising taxes to give us more government, they offer little change and less hope.

Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and author, most recently, of "A War Like No Other: How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War." You can reach him by e-mailing author@victorhanson.com.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/02/ivy_league_populism.html

Daniel
02-24-2008, 11:43 AM
I don't know. Obama was advocating for the projects that I have alot of family and friends in in Chicago and the church that people were bashing him for being a member of is DEEP in the hood.

I'm not inclined to question his links to middle america.

radamanthys
02-24-2008, 12:35 PM
I live in downtown Binghamton (If we were to give the world an enema, the hose would likely go within a mile from my place)... does that mean I'm part of the 'hood?

Represent.

Daniel
02-24-2008, 12:38 PM
No idea

Warriorbird
02-24-2008, 01:08 PM
Obama could've gone for the money after school... but instead he was somewhat insane and TheE-like... and went into community organizing. He walked the walk.

This is just another in a series of "lets fool people into voting against their economic self interest" stabs by Republicans. It's full of "lets blame it on everybody else." and curiously lacking in any hope itself.

Back
02-24-2008, 07:07 PM
(Almost) Everyone starts as a newb.

Parkbandit
02-24-2008, 08:45 PM
I live in downtown Binghamton (If we were to give the world an enema, the hose would likely go within a mile from my place)... does that mean I'm part of the 'hood?

Represent.

God... how can you stand that place? I lived there for 5 years. Constant overcast made life suck.

Clove
02-25-2008, 10:09 AM
I don't know. Obama was advocating for the projects that I have alot of family and friends in in Chicago and the church that people were bashing him for being a member of is DEEP in the hood.

I'm not inclined to question his links to middle america.

Naw you'll just question everyone elses :D

Parkbandit
02-25-2008, 10:11 AM
Naw you'll just question everyone elses who's not black :D

Corrected for accuracy.

You are welcome.

Daniel
02-25-2008, 11:42 AM
Naw you'll just question everyone elses :D

Nah. I'll just question people who allude to vague, unsubstantiated, and unbelievable experiences in an attempt to make a point.

I'm sorry you're still butt hurt about that.

Oh, and PB, why do you even bother anymore?

We both know, all you'll do is make retard remarks and dissapear when anyone challenges you to post something of substance. Of course, then you'll appear a week lately saying "Didn't I prove you to be stupid by saying it" or some other ridiculous nonsense and dissapear again when called out on that bullshit.

Clove
02-25-2008, 12:02 PM
Nah. I'll just question people who allude to vague, unsubstantiated, and unbelievable experiences in an attempt to make a point.

Not unbelievable at all. As I said you can find plenty of stories of folks facing poverty without turning to crime. If you don't trust a simple statement such as "I was desperate and didn't resort to crime" then any further details I provide you with would still be... my word. I'm not about to scan pay stubs and notarized statements for you, dipshit.

As for my brother going to a highly respected university. Apparently you've never heard of grants, scholarships and student loans.

My other brother graduated from UMass. Feel better motherfucker?

Daniel
02-25-2008, 12:05 PM
I've always felt fine. I've also thought you were full of shit.

Still do.

Thanks for asking though. Do you feel better?

Clove
02-25-2008, 12:14 PM
I've always felt fine. I've also thought you were full of shit...Do you feel better?

I consider the source.

Daniel
02-25-2008, 12:16 PM
Oh? And what stories have I made up about my life?

Gan
02-25-2008, 12:17 PM
OH GOD dont get him talking about himself again.

Daniel
02-25-2008, 12:20 PM
OH GOD dont get him talking about himself again.

Yea. It must really suck when you claim some higher knowledge of life because of your experiences and you get shut the fuck up.

Gan
02-25-2008, 12:24 PM
Yea. It must really suck when you claim some higher knowledge of life because of your experiences and you get shut the fuck up.

Speaking from first hand experience are you?

Daniel
02-25-2008, 12:30 PM
Oooh. Burn.

I'm rubber, you're glue, what you say bounces off me and sticks to you!

Gan
02-25-2008, 12:31 PM
:rah:

Parkbandit
02-25-2008, 12:34 PM
Nah. I'll just question people who allude to vague, unsubstantiated, and unbelievable experiences in an attempt to make a point.

I'm sorry you're still butt hurt about that.

Oh, and PB, why do you even bother anymore?

We both know, all you'll do is make retard remarks and dissapear when anyone challenges you to post something of substance. Of course, then you'll appear a week lately saying "Didn't I prove you to be stupid by saying it" or some other ridiculous nonsense and dissapear again when called out on that bullshit.

Woosh.

(not really sure what that means.... but I figured if it was good enough for you, it should pass off as an intelligent response for you. PS - I didn't prove you to be stupid.. you've done a stellar job of that here over the years... leaving zero doubt. Well done)

Daniel
02-25-2008, 12:34 PM
Woosh.

(not really sure what that means....

Woosh.

Clove
02-25-2008, 12:38 PM
Yea. It must really suck when you claim some higher knowledge of life because of your experiences and you get shut the fuck up.

Except I haven't shut the fuck up. And neither have you. I made a one-sentence statement about an experience that is neither uncommon or unbelievable. And you're frothing about "higher knowlege" and my credibility? Please.

Daniel
02-25-2008, 12:39 PM
I was talking to Gan. Hence my "Quoting" him.

Parkbandit
02-25-2008, 12:40 PM
I was talking to Gan. Hence my "Quoting" him.


I've yet to see Gan ever "shutting up". Maybe you are confused... since calling you what you really are.. and idiot.. is rude.. and I'm trying to be nice.

:)

PS - I have to go now.. but I'll be back later. Please don't take my lack of posts over the next hour or so any indication that you shut me up.

Thanks!

Daniel
02-25-2008, 12:41 PM
I've yet to see Gan ever "shutting up". Maybe you are confused... since calling you what you really are.. and idiot.. is rude.. and I'm trying to be nice.

:)

You also believe that hanging nooses in the south don't reference slavery or lynching.

You'll excuse me if I'm not retracting my statement.

Gan
02-25-2008, 12:45 PM
I was talking to Gan. Hence my "Quoting" him.

Thats why I said you must have been speaking from first hand experience. Cause I've never been STFU'd.

Daniel
02-25-2008, 12:52 PM
Thats why I said you must have been speaking from first hand experience. Cause I've never been STFU'd.

I've noticed you've stopped telling TheE he doesn't know what he's talking about because he was privledged.

Hmmm...

Gan
02-25-2008, 12:54 PM
I've noticed you've stopped telling TheE he doesn't know what he's talking about because he was privledged.

Hmmm...

LOL

I've noticed that we have not had a thread that has discussed that topic since I last told him.


The absence of mention does not imply the absence of existence.

Edited to add that bit of clarity. ^^
:lol:

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Love your logic.

Tsa`ah
02-25-2008, 02:00 PM
Thats why I said you must have been speaking from first hand experience. Cause I've never been STFU'd.

It's more along the lines of "you never stfu" .... of course CT isn't going to drop in and state something along the lines of "you can't just let the remarks go without you getting butthurt and reciprocating" either.

Geese and ganders don't seem to be applicable when you tote pom poms.

Clove
02-25-2008, 02:01 PM
Pathetic.

Gan
02-25-2008, 02:11 PM
It's more along the lines of "you never stfu" .... of course CT isn't going to drop in and state something along the lines of "you can't just let the remarks go without you getting butthurt and reciprocating" either.

Geese and ganders don't seem to be applicable when you tote pom poms.

Speaking of someone who never STFU... and pom poms (D Team Unite!)

:hi:

:howudoing:

Clove
02-25-2008, 02:12 PM
It....of course CT (or SST, or Warriorbird, or Clove, or PB etc, etc, etc.) isn't going to drop in and state something along the lines of "you can't just let the remarks go without you getting butthurt and reciprocating" either.


Fixed it for you.