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Warriorbird
02-23-2008, 12:39 PM
The candidates want to do things like reduce taxes and fix health care. But they'll have to deal with the cold realities of the federal budget.

The next president, no matter who wins, will face two tough fiscal realities: the Bush tax cuts and the AMT.

AMT: Cost of change * Repeal: $1 trillion to $2 trillion over 10 years * Curb reach: $500 billion and $1 trillion over 10 years
Tax cuts: Cost of extension * For all taxpayers: $2 trillion over 10 years * For middle- and low-income tax filers: $783 billion over 10 years

Source: Tax Policy Center

http://i.l.cnn.net/money/2008/02/22/news/economy/candidates_deficit/three_candidates.03.jpg


By Jeanne Sahadi, CNNMoney.com senior writer
February 22 2008: 3:07 PM EST

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The presidential candidates all have big plans for their time in the White House. Reform health care. Reduce taxes. Close corporate loopholes. Encourage savings. The list goes on.

Like college graduates whose career choices may be limited by their student loan debt, however, the next president could be constrained by the federal budget.

According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the annual budget deficit will improve during the next president's four-year term and end in a surplus of $61 billion by 2013.

But that baseline projection is based on financial assumptions that no one expects to pan out. Two of the biggest roadblocks threatening to upend budgetary nirvana: What to do about the looming expiration of tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003, and the growing cost of fixing - or nixing - the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT).

Depending on how you address them, those two factors alone could add close to $4 trillion to the federal budget deficit by 2018, according to estimates by the Tax Policy Center.

Add in the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the growing costs of Medicare and Social Security, and you end up with something more like a budgetary nadir.

"A substantial reduction in the growth of spending, a significant increase in tax revenues relative to the size of the economy, or some combination of the two will be necessary to maintain the nation's long-term fiscal stability," the CBO warned in a recent report.

Deficit experts doubt that the candidates' plans will pare back the deficit.

"None of the candidates has any proposals that would lead us to believe they would cut the deficit," said Joshua Gordon, senior policy analyst at the Concord Coalition, a deficit watchdog group. They even may add to it, he said. "Their 'pay-fors' are much harder to do politically, and there are fewer of them."

Can they hold the line?

All of the candidates claim their proposals are fiscally responsible and, at the very least, will not add to the deficit.

Take Democratic frontrunner Barack Obama.

"Obama has committed to pay for anything he proposes in the campaign," said Austan Goolsbee, Obama's top economics adviser.

Goolsbee cited a list of revenue-generating and spending-cut measures that Obama supports. Among them: drawing down the war, letting tax cuts expire for high-income households, closing corporate loopholes and cracking down on tax havens.

"Qualitatively they may be right - but quantitatively, I don't know how they get the numbers," said Roberton Williams, principal research associate at the Tax Policy Center and the former deputy assistant director for tax analysis at the CBO.

For example, how much revenue would be generated by Obama's plan to close corporate loopholes? Until the ink dries on any final measure approved by Congress, said Williams, "you can claim any number you want, but it's totally unproveable."

Extending the tax cuts

One of the main challenges facing the next president involves whether to extend a series of tax cuts set to expire in three years.

The leading candidates of both parties want to preserve the tax cuts to some extent. The Republicans want to extend all the cuts. According to the Tax Policy Center, that would reduce federal revenue by $2 trillion over 10 years.

The Democrats want to preserve them only for lower- and middle-income households. Obama and Hillary Clinton say they would let them expire for couples who make more than $250,000, a move they say will help pay for their new proposals. The Tax Policy Center says, however, that could reduce revenue by $783 billion compared to the CBO baseline, which assumes that all the tax cuts expire.

Gene Sperling, Clinton's economic adviser, contends the baseline is more formalistic than realistic.

"A lot of people who don't like the way the Bush tax cuts were passed still believe they're in the baseline," Sperling said. Democrats think that letting all the tax cuts sunset would be "too harsh on the middle class in a time of wage stagnation," he added.

On the Republican side, John McCain sees the cure for deficits on the spending side of the ledger, not the tax side.

"Sen. McCain believes that a comprehensive effort to target discretionary spending on genuine national needs in defense and non-defense areas, as well as comprehensive reform of the entitlements, can lead to a balanced budget," said his senior economic policy adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former director of the CBO.

Even with the tax cuts and AMT relief in 2007, the government still collected a higher-than-average amount of tax revenue and it usually spends more than it takes in, Holtz-Eakin explained. "So the tax system will support the typical revenue needs of the government."

AMT changes on tap

There's another political reality that the next president won't be able to ignore: providing permanent relief to most if not all taxpayers from the AMT - something that both Democrats and Republicans in Congress have said they want to do.

McCain has pledged to eliminate the AMT. Holtz-Eakin says such a move could be paid for by another of McCain's pledges - to eliminate earmarks. Earmarks are funds for lawmakers' special projects that may benefit only their constituencies.

Holtz-Eakin noted that the cost of the latest annual budget "patch" to fix the AMT was $60 billion, roughly the same as the amount assigned annually to earmarks by the CBO. He figures eliminating earmark funding could free up $650 billion over ten years and make up for lost revenue if the AMT is eliminated.

Even if every earmark dollar were cut - an unlikely scenario, experts say - the cost of AMT repeal could still trump the savings. The Tax Policy Center estimates that revenue will be reduced by roughly $880 billion over 10 years if Congress lets all the tax cuts sunset or $1.85 trillion if they extend them.

The cost would be somewhat less if the AMT was simply structured to protect middle-class taxpayers, which both Obama and Clinton favor.

Changes to the AMT, combined with extending the tax cuts, mean the next president will need to figure out whether and how to replace up to $4 trillion in revenue.

If the lost revenue is not replaced, the government will need to slash spending, raise taxes or borrow more since projections for the federal budget assume the AMT stays on the books as is and the tax cuts expire.

The political friction over which route to take will play a big part in shaping the next president's initiatives. Gordon of the Concord Coalition said it's not hard to find ways to balance the budget mathematically. But, he said, "it's hard politically."

Warriorbird
02-23-2008, 12:46 PM
Posted for Gan's sake. This is noteworthy in regards to all the "change" or "not change" that either side wants to implement but a bit too reality based to hold back any politician.

Gan
02-23-2008, 12:47 PM
Gene Sperling, Clinton's economic adviser, contends the baseline is more formalistic than realistic.

This totally reminded me of a line..


http://www.artandeth.com/Gallery2/ActorsR/20485-26015.gif

"...And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner."

Gan
02-23-2008, 12:49 PM
McCain has pledged to eliminate the AMT. Holtz-Eakin says such a move could be paid for by another of McCain's pledges - to eliminate earmarks. Earmarks are funds for lawmakers' special projects that may benefit only their constituencies.

ding ding ding!!!

Warriorbird
02-23-2008, 12:50 PM
Unfortunately for Spirling... $783 billion's about as realistic as a plank walking. Political advisors amuse me.

I witness McCain having a fair bit of trouble with his own party on the earmark thing...if he wins. It's sort of like Hillary's "let's stop interest" idea.

Dwarven Empath
02-23-2008, 07:20 PM
Earmarks are funds for lawmakers' special projects that may benefit only their constituencies.

Like when they made it manditory for yearly eye exams, to renue your contact subscription.

Rumor has it that some eye doctor's father in-law was a law maker, and they passed a law to make it so you had to have your eyes examined yearly to get your contacts.

Who benefited?

Welcome to America!

Incredible if you ask me.


Medi...

Gan
02-23-2008, 07:31 PM
I witness McCain having a fair bit of trouble with his own party on the earmark thing...if he wins. It's sort of like Hillary's "let's stop interest" idea.

Not like McCain has ever told the GOP where to stick it before...

Warriorbird
02-23-2008, 07:45 PM
And then turned around and sucked right back up when they rejected him?

From a fiscal standpoint... he worries me. He's a decent person though.

I also wonder how long the "but, but, at least he's not a Democrat!" will hold.

Gan
02-23-2008, 07:48 PM
And then turned around and sucked right back up when they rejected him?

From a fiscal standpoint... he's a doozy. I believe he's a decent person though.

I wasnt aware of the sucking up after the rejection. But then, I can remember when McCain's maverick style of politics alarmed me into thinking the guy was a hair trigger waiting to go off and nobody could hold him back.

He still makes me nervous - I just cant put my finger on what it is that strikes that chord though.

Warriorbird
02-23-2008, 07:50 PM
Oh... he called Jerry Falwell an "agent of intolerance." back in 2000 and then did EVERYTHING to get down on his knees before Falwell after Bush beat him in SC.

Gan
02-23-2008, 07:53 PM
Hmmmmm.


I dont remember that one. Course, I wasnt a fan of McCain or Fallwell at that time. (Jury's out on McCain, Fallwell is still a no).

Parkbandit
02-23-2008, 08:01 PM
And then turned around and sucked right back up when they rejected him?

From a fiscal standpoint... he worries me. He's a decent person though.

I also wonder how long the "but, but, at least he's not a Democrat!" will hold.

:rofl:

He worries you from a fiscal standpoint.. yet you are voting for Obama?

Nice logic there Ilvane Jr.

Stanley Burrell
02-23-2008, 09:51 PM
Earmarks are more and more of taxpayer's money spent in court debating what that word means so that we can have a brief interim before deciding against stem cell research for the umpteenth time.

Rofl @ "lawmakers." I could be 22 years younger and babble enough one-year-old baby-talk in semantics to draw earmark hearings on who becomes an applicable red X. Politics personified.

I'd guess that anyone who pushes for this probably wants to overhaul the Social Security program into an SSID expenditure during epochs of budget deficits.

Tsa`ah
02-23-2008, 10:23 PM
:rofl:

He worries you from a fiscal standpoint.. yet you are voting for Obama?

Nice logic there Ilvane Jr.

There's nothing wrong with that logic.

If you're going to vote for someone that will sport a big end ticket for tax payers, you're voting for them because you feel the tax dollars are being sent to areas of need.

If you're going to vote for someone who wants to save tax dollars, you vote for the person because they're removing revenue to pork products and unnecessary spending.

You'll never find a candidate that will offer both with any sincerity, rather you're going to vote for what you feel is of greater need ... if you're an independent.

If it comes down to McCain/Clinton ... I'm voting McCain.

We're in a war and in my opinion, based on what I've read of McCain during the Vietnam conflict (war), McCain is going to direct soldiers and funds from the perspective of a former soldier, not a pampered draft dodger ... which is a good thing.

I also feel that McCain is sucking up to his party right now, but the sucking up will greatly reduce if he attains the Oval office.

The conservative in me views McCain more of a conservative than most of his party. He actually believes in smaller government and the rights of the States over the rights of the Fed.

Even though he's less of a straight shooter than he was mere months ago, he's still by far the most stand up candidate of the three. I may not like where he's aiming, but character and integrity are big with me.

If it's McCain/Obama ... I go with Obama.

Yes the end tax ticket is big, but his proposed spending is socially necessary. While many of his proposals are similar to Clinton ... well, Clinton has had the time to champion the cause and she really didn't put in the effort until she turned the key to start her campaign for the democratic nomination. Obama has a the history prior to and during his political career. It comes down to the issue of sincerity ... and Clinton loses that battle.

Warriorbird
02-23-2008, 11:21 PM
It's simple, Parkbandit.

Obama's gonna sink fabulous amounts on social programs (college for the poor!).
Obama's gonna sink fabulous amounts on the AMT.
Obama may make some tax cuts.

Mcain's gonna sink fabulous amounts on Iraq and more wars (Iran).
McCain's gonna maintain all the Bush tax cuts.
McCain's gonna sink fabulous amounts on the AMT.
McCain's gonna sink fabulous amounts on social programs (we love you, illegals!)

Obama's spendthrift. McCain's worse. Toss on the combination of a Congress that'll likely go Republican if he wins?

Republican Congresses outspend Democratic ones by an epic amount.

Clinton...well she's just Hillary Clinton. If she gets nominated I'm writing it all off. She scares me.