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View Full Version : Hillary gettin desperate.



oldanforgotten
02-20-2008, 12:14 PM
So, it?s becoming more and more clear that John McCain is now operating under the assumption that Obama will win the Democratic Nomination. However, it seems rather odd to me that he is using much of the same lines of attack that Clinton has, primarily regarding experience and empty speeches. I?m not quite sure how he expects to make those lines stick when Hillary could not.

So where are we standing right now?

In terms of delegates, Obama has a 91 delegate lead. He leads currently by more than 160 pledged delegates, and has closed the gap on superdelegates to 70.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

More importantly, he has verily shut down any endorsement based momentum Hillary can achieve up through at least March 4th. Given his string of wins, a popular/influential superdelegate will have an awful difficult time justifying all of a sudden jumping on board the losing train. Since Feb 5 (when the superdelegate count was 228-105), he was received endorsements from 58 new superdelegates (which are tenuous at best, since they can change their minds after all), while Hillary has received endorsements from only 17. More importantly, 6 of Hillary?s previously committed superdelegates are now endorsing Obama.

So what did we find out in Wisconsin/Hawaii? Being it Barack is from Hawaii, little. In Wisconsin however, the voting base was supposedly tailored for Hillary. The expected turnout was more than 4-3 in favor of women, the electorate was overwhelmingly white, and the number of middle class working families in the state was the dominant voting blocs.

From:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#WIDEM
Obama and Clinton were almost tied among women (Clinton won 51-48), closing down Hillary?s strongest voting bloc.
Obama won every income level other than below $25,000
Obama won by more than a 2-1 margin voters that decided recently and men.
More than 35% of the democractic primary voters were people identified as Independants (27%) or people identifying themselves as Republicans (almost 9%, a startlingly high number), who voted overwhelmingly in favor of Obama.
Obama had a slight edge among voters that identified themselves as Democrats.
17% of respondants reported that they would be unhappy with Obama winning the nomination, a number almost doubled by Clinton with 31% of the democratic voters stating displeasure at the prospects of her winning the primary.

Now, a lot of people have heard texas is moving into a statistical tie, but in all fairness, the rolling poll average shows Clinton with a still significant 7 point lead in Texas and a 10+ pt lead in Ohio.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/tx/texas_democratic_primary-312.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/oh/ohio_democratic_primary-263.html

although both leads tend to be trending down, there isn?t enough rolling data to say anything legitimately yet from a statistical standpoint.

Another burning question that seems to be causing all kinds of confusion relates to results vs prediction polls. Most polls for Wisconsin showed Obama with only a razor thin 4-5 point lead heading into last nights election, but the actual gap was 17. Virginia, Maryland, D.C also had actual results far wider than the predictor poll. In fact, From super Tuesday onward, it can be argued that Obama has been outperforming his predictor poll basis. On Super Tuesday, Obama was behind nationally by 11 points. Actual result, Clinton 50.2, Obama 49.8. In fact, rolling the averages, to this point, one would have expected Clinton to have gotten 56.2% of the vote to this point to Obama?s 43.7%.

Actual result (not including Florida): Obama 52.9%, Clinton 47.0%.
(including Florida): 51.5%, Clinton 48.5%
(including Florida and Michigan, where Obama was not on the ballot): 50.7%, Clinton 49.2%

A big answer to that is in the flaws itself of the prediction polling system. More than 30% of voters in the democratic primaries in this election year have never voted in a primary before. More than 5% of the voters in the democratic primaries have never voted democrat before. More than 15% of the voters in the democratic primaries register to vote for the first time for these primaries. These are biased groups as well, voting in general by a 2-1, 3-1 or higher margin for Obama, yet they never are part of the population sample used for the prediction polls. This could play a huge spoiler for Texas, where record registration is expected in Dallas, Houston and San Antonio, all areas Obama is expected to do well anyway.

General thinking is that Clinton is going to go balls-out on the attack, some calling it desperation, others calling it a needed change in strategy.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_campaignplus/20080220/ap_ca/on_deadline_wisconsin
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/richard_adams/2008/02/lost_in_wisconsin.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3401151.ece

For general clarity, here?s an article with a very nice pro-hillary spin as well:
http://www.nysun.com/article/71568

Either way, she?s gotta start winning, and winning big, or that delegate lead will be impossible to make up:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/politics_nation/

Party at Ilvanes!
________
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Xaerve
02-20-2008, 12:55 PM
Party at Ilvanes!

Truth.

Edit: I noticed she finally shut the fuck up in a lot of the Politics threads... haha.

Looks like her "random dice of political knowledge" didn't help her this time around. There is always 2012!

Latrinsorm
02-20-2008, 01:46 PM
I’m not quite sure how he expects to make those lines stick when Hillary could not.Maybe because he actually has experience, unlike Senator Clinton.

oldanforgotten
02-20-2008, 02:00 PM
Maybe because he actually has experience, unlike Senator Clinton.

Point well noted. I keep forgetting how useless the line is with Hillary because its not like she has a record of results to fall back on. Ok, time to see then if that argument actually holds water with the public now that someone with real experience is using it.

I would, though also point out that in order for him to hit home with it, he's gotta work on the speechcraft. His speech last night was actually very meaty and pretty good overall, except that it put people to sleep.
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oldanforgotten
02-20-2008, 02:33 PM
Well, hillary cannot possibly like this one:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/20/teamsters.obama/index.html

That'll cut right into the heartstrings of her union support.
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TheEschaton
02-20-2008, 02:38 PM
Ouch, that does suck for her.

oldanforgotten
02-20-2008, 02:59 PM
He now has the support of 3 of the largest unions in the nation, with 5 million + total workers. What?s bad specifically for Hillary is that the teamsters in specific have a huge presence in Ohio.

The more and more you look at it, the more and more disheveled her campaign is becoming. He?s got offices and workers in every state, and she?s rushing to put things together. When she talks about the experience to lead, to organize and to create the change, the reality is that his campaign is managed a ton better than hers, he?s the one who has gotten things moving, gotten things to work, and managed to turn a very close race in which he was the decided underdog into a string of victories, a better public persona, and has avoided most of the pitfalls that a political noob would fall into.

He has fallen into a few traps as of late, and I think he may slowly be falling into what will eventually be a tremendous string of negative attacks from Clinton. Her leads in Texas and Ohio have shrunk, and as Obama starts campaigning there, the gap will inevitably continue to close. It appears that more and more so, McCain will be joining Hillary in the Obama-bashing, as they both work together to find something that will make a significant public difference.
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oldanforgotten
02-20-2008, 03:34 PM
I dont have much as to whether or not this site is biased (link came from realclearpolitics), but if its true, how can she be ready to lead on day 1 when she sets a "firewall" in a state that she doesn't understand the rules in?

http://www.burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5010
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TheEschaton
02-20-2008, 03:35 PM
Did Hillary run over your cat, or something?

oldanforgotten
02-20-2008, 03:58 PM
No, I just dont like her.

And for the record, it's not exactly like there is a lot of positive press coming out regarding Hillary right now, so the majority of articles are going to be probing as to what went wrong and how. While her campaign as a whole can hardly be called a disaster, it can be from Feb 5 onward.
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TheEschaton
02-20-2008, 04:12 PM
It's not a disaster, it just assumed that A) she was the presumptive nominee, and B) it would be wrapped up by Feb 5th.

oldanforgotten
02-20-2008, 04:22 PM
It's not a disaster, it just assumed that A) she was the presumptive nominee, and B) it would be wrapped up by Feb 5th.

She was the frontrunner in the polls heading up to the start of elections and a prohibitive favorite, a lead that has turned into a deficit, and the fact that they assumed it would all be over by Feb 5 has caused her campaign to be a train wreck since. Organization has been poor and rushed, several states were patently ignored, and as a result, the number and margins of the losses have been staggering. A 17 point loss in Wisconsin is the closest she has come to winning a state since Super Tuesday. I don't see how it can be called anything but a disaster.

It's not like it is impossible to recover from. If she wins big in Texas and Ohio as she has bet her cards on, there is no reason to think she can't right the ship, but those margins have fallen as well, and there is no evidence at least yet that anything is on the right track.
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TheEschaton
02-20-2008, 04:25 PM
LA was much closer than 17, wasn't it?

oldanforgotten
02-20-2008, 04:36 PM
LA was much closer than 17, wasn't it?

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#LA

21 points on that one.
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Gan
02-20-2008, 05:50 PM
Spent the day at several different locations and all I've seen is Obama 08 stickers.

Davenshire
02-20-2008, 08:57 PM
Spent the day at several different locations and all I've seen is Obama 08 stickers.

:yes:

Latrinsorm
02-21-2008, 12:35 PM
Let me just say this, Texas. You can totally make up for all that Cowboys bad karma with an Obama nomination. We're all pulling for you! :love:

Tsa`ah
02-21-2008, 01:40 PM
Let me just say this, Texas. You can totally make up for all that Cowboys bad karma with an Obama nomination. We're all pulling for you! :love:

Not with Slick Willy laying down the guilt trip smack down on the Texans.

New strategy, when crying doesn't work, when attempts at mud slinging end with more mud on your face, when dismissing the "red" states as inconsequential proves to be nearly fatal ... guilt people into voting for you. Maybe her pandering to Jews way back by implying she herself was Jewish has some merit.

Sean of the Thread
02-21-2008, 01:41 PM
She's fucked imo.

It's over.

Tsa`ah
02-21-2008, 01:43 PM
She's fucked imo.

It's over.

Now that you have accepted that ... who wins an Obama/McCain match up in your book? ... keep in mind you did claim Obama had no chance early on.

Sean of the Thread
02-21-2008, 01:52 PM
Now that you have accepted that ... who wins an Obama/McCain match up in your book? ... keep in mind you did claim Obama had no chance early on.

I also claimed Hillarious had no chance either. It's was my opinion all along that this election would result in another republican whomever it was. The Dems were very weak.

It's going to be McCain at this point in my opinion if I like it or not.

Miscast
04-23-2008, 03:55 AM
http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/clinton-threatens-to-obliterate-iran-if-israel-attacked

What a fucking idiot.

Daniel
04-23-2008, 07:56 AM
The fuck?