Saddam Hussein captured?

[Betheny]

I'm told we may have captured him in Iraq.

Think it's possible?

[Chelle]

Very possible. I hope so! :D

[StrayRogue]

Its been on the news. He has been apprehended (apparently) in Iraq.

[Betheny]

I'm wary of the word 'possible' and all of that.

I'll believe it and rejoice when it's confirmed.

A disturbing quote, from CNN.com:

Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the commander of U.S. ground forces in Iraq, has been dogged by reporters wanting to know the status of the search for Saddam.

"It is difficult to find him," Sanchez said, at a press briefing earlier this month. "Given that I haven't found him killed him or captured him, and I need the Iraqi people's help, and together we will find him, we will capture him, we will kill him."

Do you think he will be killed?

[StrayRogue]

He has been captured in his home town of Tikrit by American troops last night after several raids. The will be a news conferance within the hour.

[Chelle]

Will they air his execution? People will want proof, you know? Oh wow you know how high the ratings would be on that?! Whew!

[Betheny]

I wonder if they'll go military tribunal or if there will be an actual trial.

[StrayRogue]

The trial will most likely want to be held in Iraq I am hearing. Sounds fair. My bet is the fucking Americans will drag him home.

[Betheny]

Every time you insult America it makes me want to tease the shit out of you 'fucking Brits'. But you know, I don't think I will. Because you helped us in Iraq.

I'm really, really offended by your statement.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Maimara]

[StrayRogue]

And "us" helping you makes me feel all the more sick. Sure I'm glad he's gone, but if you eat that "we went to free the iraqi people" bullshit, I feel you are a big ignorant. Have him on trial in Iraq. Where he did the most damage.

[Betheny]

I didn't say you were stupid, I'm just saying you're an asshole.

You don't know jack shit about jack shit when it comes to Americans, so why don't you s hut the fuck up.

His trial will be in Iraq, I don't see them hauling him over here to try him, BUT OH WAIT, I'M A FUCKING AMERICAN, SO I S HOULD THINK T HAT.

fuck you stray.

[StrayRogue]

Touch a nerve dear?

Chances are I've read more about your country's political agenda than men you've slept with.

By the way, my "inferior" news system has just confirmed by DNA that it was Saddam.

[Betheny]

Thanks for the confirmation.

No one said anything about inferiority.

And you're just pissed off because I've banged more chicks than you have.

[Betheny]

Somehow, I knew you were the type to throw that out there.

[StrayRogue]

You shouldn't moan endlessly then, should you?

[Betheny]

What the fuck ever.

[HouseofElves]

Woah, reading this thread has me suddenly very confused on if I should say "GO USA" or just run and take a cold shower.


And damnit, I was going to go to bed after this and now I have to watch the news. Hmph.

Have a good one, in any event.

[Kadumi]

Great. Now Bush's approval ratings will go up and we'll never get that assclown out of office.

[StrayRogue]

I know :( Cool Avatar Kadumi.

[Kadumi]

Thanks, designed it myself

[HouseofElves]

http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3708151&p1=0

So did the British capture him? Would make sense if Blair is commenting. But then again, I can't read or write.

[Silleck]

All I gotta say is fuck yeah!

[Betheny]

He might earn my vote if he personally goes and finds Osama bin Laden.

Since that'll never happen, I'm a Howard Dean gal.

On execution, I think that should be up to the Iraqi people as a whole as to what to do with him.

[Kadumi]

I'm leanin more toward Kerry, but that's just me

[HouseofElves]

Wait, is that the Nam vet? Or the one who got kicked out of NATO and likes Outkast?

Feh, I really need to read a newspaper once in a while.

[Betheny]

It was coalition forces, so both were involved, it's just that the UK gets their news faster.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by HouseofElves
Wait, is that the Nam vet? Or the one who got kicked out of NATO and likes Outkast?

Feh, I really need to read a newspaper once in a while.

Howard Dean's the one that's trying to get me health care. I won't go off on that tangent though.

[Kadumi]

kerry's the nam vet. I actually wrote a term paper on him earlier this semester

[HouseofElves]

Hmm health care, or some sick ass flash backs. Choices, choices.

[StrayRogue]

Its confirmed. He was captured at about 8:30 local time last night. On his person were two AK47's, a pistol, and $700,000 US. He was taken in and has been described as being "talkative". DNA and medical testing have confirmed his identity.

[Betheny]

I fail to understand why the US would rejoice. It's the Iraqis that should have a block party. Assuming they want to.

[StrayRogue]

They are doing. Atleast certain factions are.

[Betheny]

Well I'd assume the ones that ate out of his hand are running away cupping their nuts for protection.

[Ilvane]

I'm really glad the found Saddam, but my first thought was "Oh damn it, now Bush is going to get re-elected".

Somehow the economy, unemployment(not to mention the preponderance of low paying jobs with no benefits) and ridiculous things he has passed recently will be overshadowed by the fact that he is the as Stray so eloquently put it "Savior of the world." Or something..

Grrr. :flamed:

-A

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Ilvane]

[Weedmage Princess]

Glad to hear Saddam was captured...

However, myself..personally being pro the war in the beginning...I still want to know if there truly are any WMD's in Iraq...because if there aren't, then the American people were lied to, and I'll take the stand of those who were against the war. As horrible of a person he was, if he really wasn't a threat to Amercian security and truly didn't have any WMD's and truly wasn't violating the sanctions put on him like we were told, then we had no business over there.

[Ilvane]

Well, yeah. I mean the biggest reason supposedly we were going was the WMD. The president went on about it on TV with reports that weren't accurate, and then tried to pretend it wasn't a big deal.

:grin: I just don't know..it is frustrating to watch, especially since people were so anti-Clinton for having sex and not telling the truth about it(heh) and when someone lies about something that sends American soldiers over seas to get killed, it's not a big deal..

And they say we have a liberal media! :snicker:

I admit I'm a Kerry girl, but if Dean winds up getting the nom, I'll probably still vote Democrat.

-A

[StrayRogue]

Erm, its already been sort of announced there were no WMD there. Atleast on our end of the news.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Ilvane

And they say we have a liberal media! :snicker:

-A

HA!

[Xcalibur]

Personnally I don't care about WMDs, Irak is headless now, every leader will have a little fear thinking that they could get captured eventually.

Praise Bush!

[Kadumi]

here's an analogy weedmage....

Last year my old roommate and I were drinking beer in my dorm room. Neither of us were 21 at the time. The RA came and knocked at the door. When I saw it was him I closed the door in his face and told him to come back later.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
Personnally I don't care about WMDs, Irak is headless now, every leader will have a little fear thinking that they could get captured eventually.

Praise Bush!

What about Osama?

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Somehow the economy, unemployment(not to mention the preponderance of low paying jobs with no benefits) and ridiculous things he has passed recently will be overshadowed by the fact that he is the as Stray so eloquently put it "Savior of the world." Or something..

Grrr. :flamed:

-A

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Ilvane]

you think you're mad...

Try living in minnesota, where emt's have to work at gas stations to pay t heir bills.

[Xcalibur]

Osama has more pressure now to NEVER be captured, otherwise the US will be unstopable (Propaganda wise)

If he is smart, he will be low profil for a long while or on the contrary, will strike to show they are still «strong»

[Weedmage Princess]

Nothing's been "confirmed for certain" here, Stray.

As a matter of fact, I have on the news now, and they just said that if anyone would be able to lead us to where the WMDs are if there are any, it would be Saddam. He's cooperating they say, and I believe if there are any, he'll say. If it doesn't, then I'll strongly believe that there aren't in fact any...and Bush will not be getting my vote when election time comes. Telling lies to draw support to sacrifice American lives is a big deal to me, bigger than Clinton's adultery.

[Ilvane]

I have a friend who has a Masters degree working and getting paid 12 dollars an hour with no benefits because she couldn't find a job otherwise. 12 dollars an hour here doesn't do much, considering the rents are 1000 a month and above(1000 being for a studio..)

-A

[Artha]

The economy's still getting better, and that has nothing to do with Bush. He inheritted the recession because of the .com bubble bursting.

[Ilvane]

The economy is getting better for the rich people. Myself, I haven't seen any more money in my pocket!

-A

[i remember halloween]

he's going to get away if the iraqis take care of him. and hopefully soon strayrogue will get AIDS from his boyfriend and die.

[StrayRogue]

You mean your Bf, right loser? There will be hell to pay if he's taken to America.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

The first thing that came to my mind was, why the hell was Saddam still hanging out in Iraq?

[Miss X]

heh, that was my first thought too. In his home town too?
Oh, and Halloween dude, why shouldnt the Iraqi's take care of him? There the people that suffered under his regieme, not the US or the UK. They have the right to see him tried for his crimes, they also have the right to decide his sentence.
If he's taken to the US or anywhere else for that matter, I will lose any shred of respect I have for the people running the operation.

[Artha]

Myself, I haven't seen any more money in my pocket!

Try asking for a raise.

all i have to say is whooohoo! go America!!! ::does a little cheer:: go Bush! B-U-S-H

and Ilvane the funny thing about your comment is Im 20 years old have paied for my own "HealthCare" since i turned 18 and I make quite a bit more than $12 a hour... im a college student with no masters let alone a assocates yet

[Xcalibur]

He'll stand trial in Irak, judged publicly. Genocide, war crime, crime against humanity, Nuremberg anyone?

[Edited on 14-12-03 by Xcalibur]

I wonder if they will hold a sweepstakes on who gets to shoot the fatal bullet... im sure hes so talkative because he knows whats coming

[Xcalibur]

He won't be «fusiller» (bullet shot), it's a death for military.

He'll be either hung (traitors) or chemical poisoned (no idea what's the signification beside death sentence)

and from blairs speech it will be the Iraqi people who hold the trial

[Vixen]

They'll give the trial to the Iraqui people as a way of saying hey, this is THEIR government. They have the right to punish the sick bastard for everything he's done. Its as much a political move for us, as it will be for the new Iraqi government.
Not that I disagree. The people whos lives he tormented SHOULD have a say in what happens to him. I'm just glad at least this part is over with.

[Skirmisher]

Well there are plenty of videos of celebrations in Iraq.

I'm so glad for them. They can finally try to really create a working new government without the spectre of Saddam coming back like some evil pheonix.

As far as the trial, I also hope they have it there as it will reduce the inevitable backlash from some countries if it were held in the US.

Stray, do take a day off once in a while from your US bashing? Maybe work it like alternate side of the street parking. One day bash, next day no bash.

Weve done this dance before. Your country is no better and no worse.

Please it just gets tired after a while.

[i remember halloween]

stray is mad because a lot of us disagree with the gay lifestyle. it offends him, which is pretty funny. i guess he can always seek comfort in the arms of his boyfriend though.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by i remember halloween
stray is mad because a lot of us disagree with the gay lifestyle. it offends him, which is pretty funny. i guess he can always seek comfort in the arms of his boyfriend though.

Please never come down on the same side as me in a debate.

You only undermine it.

Iraqi courts will be holding the trail 100% for sure now according to thier press confrence

[i remember halloween]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Please never come down on the same side as me in a debate.

You only undermine it.

Please stop talking to me.

[Skirmisher]

Are you warn interacting me?

HAhahahahahahahaha

[peam]

Stray, simply put, shut the fuck up.

Good job, soldiers.

[Miss X]

I hope, no REALLY hope he isnt executed. I don't think he will be because it will present a massive problem for other world leaders, in that if its decided he is to be killed co-operation between what we would consider the democratic countries, and the not so democratic countries will break down. It will do more damage than good to execute him.

I also think that death is an easy way out, I'm sure he'd rather die than rot away in a prison cell till his last breath. I'm hoping amnesty will put pressure on the coalition governments to prevent this happening. As the old saying goes: Two wrongs don't make a right.

Of course I recognise this is just my humble opinion, and Im sure many of you, and most Iraqi people disagree, but there is always room for debate in my book.

[Weedmage Princess]

I think what will happen is if Saddam does have any information of value to the the coalition forces (in regards to WMDs, information on terrorist plans against the US/UK, etc) that they'll hold a [mock] trial in Iraq, by the Iraqi people, but ultimately say "Well he's committed war crimes, blah blah insert various excuses here...and he has to be tried in the Global court for his war crimes..." This will be their way of offering him a bargain to get any information they feel he might have...that's just my opinion though....pending there actually are WMDs or he has some kind of information. He he doesn't, they'll let the Iraqis put him to death.

[Skirmisher]

Vic, While I agree that I wish he could spend a long long time in a jail cell with no ameneties I don't think it would be good in this case.

I see too many psychos hoping to break him out of prison and use him as a figurehead as a bloodbath begins again.

I am not a huge death penalty proponent, but his crimes are numerous, heinous and not really open to much debate and with the possibility of them being revisited if he were to ever regain his freedom, I just don't see a good alternative in this case.

[Artha]

I hope, no REALLY hope he isnt executed.

I see, with him, the same problem as with Osama.

Execute him, he becomes a martyr.

Keep him alive, there's a possibility he will escape or be broken out.

I'd rather execute him...I don't think he'd make a very good martyr, with all his crimes against Muslims and such.

weeide you conspericy theorist

[GSLeloo]

I'm only on page one and I have to run out but I decided to just say this... until like they're 100% sure I won't believe it's him just because this has happened other times and then it wasn't true so.. I'll read this when I get back! (It's snowing again!)

[Halfsilver]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/12/14/sprj.irq.bush/index.html

I agree with Leloo, though.

=)



[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Halfsilver]

[theotherjohn]

According to my soldiers in the advance party, they are being told the capture of SH triples the threat they are under.

I will be in Adder next month so I might be able to post what is really happening not what we read or hear on the new.

also If I can post I will give you all my daily bitches err updates. I hope to be able to visit Ur (oldest city in world, birth place of Abraham)

[Lord Deprav]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
By the way, my "inferior" news system has just confirmed by DNA that it was Saddam.

For a DNA sample to be positively conclusive it will take at least a week to match up the strands. Not to mention they don't have any of his dna. Only his son's which can be used to match.

Deprav

[Lord Deprav]

Also, Depending on which part of Iraq, where he will be trialed, that will totally determine what will happen to him. If the Shia get to trial him, then no doubt he will die. He won't even make it to court. If the Kurds get to trial him...then the US will have to step. Can't trust the Kurds. Not very nice people.

Deprav

[StrayRogue]

Erm, yeah they do have his DNA. Try watching the news.

I am glad he is being tried in Iraq. That is the right thing to do.

[Devo]

I was deeply upset to hear that Saddam had been captured as I was enjoying watching him take the piss out of the American forces in Iraq. It took hundreds of thousands of troops months to find one decrepid old man - now that is worrying :o

oh and I thought he was doing a nice job of slaughtering Americans guerilla style



[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Devo]

[Halfsilver]

well, that's totally lame. :thumbsdown:

How much more anonymity do you need?

Jesus, what a puss, Devo.

[StrayRogue]

LOL Devo.

[Devo]

I don't need anonymity and if I did I wouldn't be airing my views on here would I? Saddam has proved quite a handful for the USA and now they just need Osama to complete their collection :lol:

[Devo]

Saddam should be tried in England where he will receive a fair trial and may even see parol one day - let's hope they let him out early for good behavior and he gets a nice cushy job at Tesco

[Skirmisher]

Devo, you need to work the irritating thing a bit better.

When you just pour it on like that its just weak.

At least troll a bit better if you insist on doing it.

As it is you simply bore me.:yawn:

[Miss X]

At the end of the day, any trial he receives will lead to the same conclusion. There is no doubt in my mind of his guilt, he (and his Government) were responsible for numerous human rights atrocities. My concern isnt so much about the his trial, its about his sentence.

This shouldnt be an opportunity to sling insults at America, I have problems with the US Government like many people, but honestly if you cant debate an issue without resorting to stupidity then why not just sit on your hands?
(btw I'm not directing that at the majority of people posting in this thread, I just think that with all the terrible things that happened to the Iraqi people, this is an issue that deserves to be taken seriously)

[edited because I seem to have lost the ability to spell.]

[Edited on 14-12-03 by Miss X]

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Devo
I was deeply upset to hear that Saddam had been captured as I was enjoying watching him take the piss out of the American forces in Iraq. It took hundreds of thousands of troops months to find one decrepid old man - now that is worrying :o

oh and I thought he was doing a nice job of slaughtering Americans guerilla style



[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Devo]

I have friends over there, asswipe.

I hope you get gang-raped by a hoarde of lepers.

[peam]

It took the US military months to find the former leader of a country with an uncountable number of connections in a country the size of California, while under hostile conditions.

Right.

[Devo]

Judging by your picture, you already have been gang raped by a bunch of lepers - you really are a stinker

++Edit Who cares how many Americans are slaughtered? I know i'm gonna sleep easy tonight knowing that it was the Americans who constantly fucked up with friendly fire incidents and killed the majority of British troops. If only it had been Britain Vs Iraq, we would have lost so fewer men.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Devo]

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Devo
Judging by your picture, you already have been gang raped by a bunch of lepers - you really are a stinker

Kill yourself.

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by Devo
Judging by your picture, you already have been gang raped by a bunch of lepers - you really are a stinker

Hi Klaive

[Betheny]

I'm not watching the TV, but my roommate says Dubya has a real smug look on his face.

I'd like to slap that look right off his face.

[Devo]

Maimara... I would kill myself, but it would be one less extremely intelligent British person on the planet, which could see the emergence of a world over-run with stupid Americans like you, ya munter

[peam]

It's good to know that you 'extremely intelligent' Brits are keeping everything in line.

[Betheny]

Extremely intelligent like a blind chimpanzee trying to fuck a chihuahua.

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Devo
Maimara... I would kill myself, but it would be one less extremely intelligent British person on the planet, which could see the emergence of a world over-run with stupid Americans like you, ya munter

Wow, I'm ashamed to be from the same country as you. Why don't you stop talking crap for a few mins and use that time to research some of the terrible things that happened to Iraqi people. Perhaps then you can claim to have an ounce of intelligence.

America is already the most powerful nation on earth, I hardly think your existance is going to change that.

[GSTamral]

Devo, had it been the British only in Iraq, the british would have been slaughtered. The British were there in a purely support role, because at this stage in time, their military strength is almost nonexistant.

I love the elitist attitude held by much of Europe in opposition to the war. I myself am somewhat ambivalent to it, but some things I just find funny.

France hated the war because they were afraid that we would, and did, discover that they were still actively selling arms and missiles to Iraq, likely in exchange for some black market oil, and then had the audacity to say the war was bad because it was over oil. So we can officially say, fuck the socialists in France. They are a non-entity anyway, as their economy right now is sputtering so poorly its a miracle the EU doesn't throw them out.

As for the many british citizens who now shout all the anti-american rhetoric, as though we are a nation of some pissants, I offer only this. The quality of life in the USA is higher, we work harder than you do, we earn more money than you do, we offer more opportunity then you ever did, and we don't tax the living hell out of the upper middle class and prevent people from ever being able to reach the upper echelon of society. At least in the USA, if you want it and are willing to work for it, you can make it. In england, or most of the rest of the socliastic conglomeration known as Europe, joblessness is high, the workweek is shorter than 40 hours, and exports are at an all time low.

Maybe you people should figure out how to fix those problems with your society before bashing another. Personally to simply make you suck statements on the basis of the "I hate war" argument is typical of what an uneducated person would say. If you can't back it up, you';re doing it because someone told you to. In other words, you're a sheep. BAAAAAAA

[peam]

I didn't want to start a new thread just for these, but I found them hilarious:


http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/G/Lance.D.Goins-1/fark/saddam-santa.jpg

http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/G/Lance.D.Goins-1/fark/saddam-garcia.jpg

[GSLeloo]

Ok everyone knows I'm very anti-war, anti-Bush, and anti-Iraq BUT... I am anti all of that because I hate the idea that out soldiers and their people are dying. I believe the death is not needed so... (probably wondering where I was going with this) your comment Devo was rather disrespectful because "taking the piss" out of the American forces was also them killing our boys. Many people here could have friends or relatives either there or already dead so you should really shut your mouth before you become the new hated one.

[Betheny]

He's already #1 on my list for euthanasia.

[Edaarin]

For Devo's reputation's sake...that's not the Devo who plays Gemstone.

[Edaarin]

Originally posted by Devo
Maimara... I would kill myself, but it would be one less extremely intelligent British person on the planet, which could see the emergence of a world over-run with stupid Americans like you, ya munter

Yeah, extremely intelligent to rip off someone else's name. Why Devo of all people? That's just lame.

[GSLeloo]

Why doesn't someone go ask the real Devo. Because if this guy isn't him, then he gets banned from PC, correct? Impersonation and all that.

[Skirmisher]

Well come on now, lets not let one or two people posting like idiots make us start bashing the UK. They are and have been our single best ally for a long time.

We have idiots like Klaive here and they have their own share but thankfully they are individuals not representative of the whole.

[Edaarin]

The matter is being taken care of.

[Miss X]

Tamral, I dont want to start an arguement with you, but France is not socialist, nor is the UK. Yes, we may have high tax but we also have free healthcare for everyone. I can walk into a hospital with a broken leg tomorrow, have it sorted, even be operated on, stay in that hospital for 6 weeks and it won't cost me a penny. In fact I will get money from the government for incapacity.

Our education system is far superior to the US system, and the French education system is probably the best in the world. We may have a somewhat left wing Government but they are far from socialist. As a member of the socialist workers party I can assure you of this.

At the end of the day, no nation is perfect, each has its good and bad points. I'm not denying America is the most powerful nation, and probably has less elitism than we do here but we have our advantages here also.

[Edited on 14-12-03 by Miss X]

[Betheny]

I want health care.

I haven't been able to see a doctor in.... uh. since '99.

[Hulkein]

Great news, praise is in order for the US militiary, our President George W. Bush, England and the other coallition forces who realize what needs to be done in this world to ensure safety.

Ilvane, why did you say 'the economy' would be overlooked when Bush is up for re-election? The economy has been on the rise for the past few months, and along with that more jobs will open up. Bush is doing a great job, he'll get my vote, and he'll win the election.

USA.

[GSLeloo]

I think every country has it's own advantages. It's probably just because I grew up here but I believe America is one of the best countries in the world. Don't get me wrong because I love England and would love to live there but America is my home.

And anyone who enjoys knowing that people are being killed deserves to die as nasty as possible... in my opinion of course.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Devo, had it been the British only in Iraq, the british would have been slaughtered. The British were there in a purely support role, because at this stage in time, their military strength is almost nonexistant.

I love the elitist attitude held by much of Europe in opposition to the war. I myself am somewhat ambivalent to it, but some things I just find funny.

France hated the war because they were afraid that we would, and did, discover that they were still actively selling arms and missiles to Iraq, likely in exchange for some black market oil, and then had the audacity to say the war was bad because it was over oil. So we can officially say, fuck the socialists in France. They are a non-entity anyway, as their economy right now is sputtering so poorly its a miracle the EU doesn't throw them out.

As for the many british citizens who now shout all the anti-american rhetoric, as though we are a nation of some pissants, I offer only this. The quality of life in the USA is higher, we work harder than you do, we earn more money than you do, we offer more opportunity then you ever did, and we don't tax the living hell out of the upper middle class and prevent people from ever being able to reach the upper echelon of society. At least in the USA, if you want it and are willing to work for it, you can make it. In england, or most of the rest of the socliastic conglomeration known as Europe, joblessness is high, the workweek is shorter than 40 hours, and exports are at an all time low.

Maybe you people should figure out how to fix those problems with your society before bashing another. Personally to simply make you suck statements on the basis of the "I hate war" argument is typical of what an uneducated person would say. If you can't back it up, you';re doing it because someone told you to. In other words, you're a sheep. BAAAAAAA


Couldn't have been put much better.

[Halfsilver]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Great news, praise is in order for the US militiary, our President George W. Bush, England and the other coallition forces who realize what needs to be done in this world to ensure safety.

Ilvane, why did you say 'the economy' would be overlooked when Bush is up for re-election? The economy has been on the rise for the past few months, and along with that more jobs will open up. Bush is doing a great job, he'll get my vote, and he'll win the election.

USA.

Great to see a post like this amid all this anti-american sentiment.

I whole-heartedly agree, Hulkein.

:thumbsup:

[Devo]

I don't even play Gemstone like you geeks and my actual fucking name is Devo. Now, I don't know who this other Devo is you're all spanking about, but he's not me and i'm not him. I have never claimed to be him

[GSLeloo]

Oh I still won't vote for Bush

[Scott]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
Oh I still won't vote for Bush

I will

[Skirmisher]

Yah, no vote will be forthcoming for Bush from these fingers either.

[Halfsilver]

I agree that Bush has done a good job in getting the economy back on track, and I do believe that he's handling the situation in the middle east as best as possible.

I don't think, though, that he has very good intentions for the environment, and that weighs heavily on how I decide to place my vote. His energy bill and his plans for alaska and the oil...I havn't heard anything about his views on Kyoto, but I do know that America isn't planning on signing or participating. He's also taken power from the enforcers of the Endangered Species Act as well as delisted a lot of species. :thumbsdown:

I'll have to see who the other candidates are before I make my decision.

- D

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Halfsilver]

[Devo]

Don't get me wrong, I like America because I go there on holiday and shag all their women, but I wouldn't want to live there. Like Miss X said, we can go to A&E with a broken limb and get it fixed free of charge. True, we may get taxed alot more than you, but I know where I'd rather live because of the public services we receive

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Halfsilver


I don't think, though, that he has very good intentions for the environment, and that weighs heavily on how I decide to place my vote. His energy bill and his plans for alaska and the oil...I havn't heard anything about his views on Kyoto, but I do know that America isn't planning on signing or participating.



- D

Very true. He's also against pro-choice and would rather spend your tax money on digging up nature reserves than providing decent health-care.

[Hulkein]

And I can go to a doctor with a broken limb and get it fixed because I work more and receive health insurance for it you lazy fuck.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Halfsilver
Great to see a post like this amid all this anti-american sentiment.

Speaking as a strong pro-America American, I have to say I'm quite glad they caught Saddam. It's about time. However, I'll be more impressed if they actually capture the man behind 9/11.

Bush still doesn't get my vote. Capturing Saddam is irrelevant.

Raven

[GSLeloo]

The environment is one of my biggest things. When he first was running for election and my father told me he wanted to drill in Alaska I decided I didn't want him in office. Then most of what he has done since then have made me not want him as president even more. I'll vote for anyone else.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Hulkein
And I can go to a doctor with a broken limb and get it fixed because I work more and receive health insurance for it you lazy fuck.

Ha, you have actually no idea what your talking about, do you?

[Devo]

Originally posted by Hulkein
And I can go to a doctor with a broken limb and get it fixed because I work more and receive health insurance for it you lazy fuck.

As if you work, you're probably too obese to get out of bed

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Hulkein
And I can go to a doctor with a broken limb and get it fixed because I work more and receive health insurance for it you lazy fuck.

Unlike the millions of Americans working two jobs and live at poverty level who can't afford any. But they're obviously lazy else they'd be working /three/ full time jobs.

Raven

[Hulkein]

I'm glad Bush is pro-life... And let's remember Stray, Bush can't just go digging up reserves without other forms of government agreeing. We have this thing called a system of checks and balances to ensure that no president can do whatever he wants without opposition. You're preaching about moot points buddy.

[Skirmisher]

Well somebody has to make up for the millions that Haliburton has to pay back. You don't expect them to take it from their own pocket do you?

[StrayRogue]

How about the moving of money from schools, libraries and hospitals?

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Devo
As if you work, you're probably too obese to get out of bed

Alright Devo, you suck and are a total ass, but that did make me chuckle.

[Scott]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Very true. He's also against pro-choice and would rather spend your tax money on digging up nature reserves than providing decent health-care.

God forbid someone actually get a job and work for something. You work at a decent job, you get health insurance. People claim it's impossible to get health insurance here and the people that don't go out and work to get a decent job. I know of several places that require no job experience and pay full benifits as long as you work full time. Is it so much to ask of someone to work 40 hours a week to get health insurance? Why should I have to pay for someone else's bills?

I would like to see Free health care for children though, as it's not their fault that they don't have anything.

EDIT: because I hate italic's

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Gemstone101]

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Devo

Originally posted by Hulkein
And I can go to a doctor with a broken limb and get it fixed because I work more and receive health insurance for it you lazy fuck.

As if you work, you're probably too obese to get out of bed


And that about sums up your debating skills and intelligence.. Find something better to do then register at a forum for a game you don't even play and preach anti-American propaganda to a forum who is mainly far-left liberal and already dislikes the current government. You're really not accomplishing anything.

Edit- If you really think I'm obese you can take a look at the picture post it thread and laugh to yourself at how wrong you are.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Hulkein]

[StrayRogue]

WTF...Hulkein is hassling someone on debating skills and intelligence? HOLD THE PHONE.

Sintik, what percentage of your country is unemployed?

[Edaarin]

If Hulkein's obese, I must be a fucking whale.

[GSLeloo]

Ok Devo, stop being an asshole because you have no idea how Hulkein is physically.

Is America at it's prime? Absolutely not. Bush is abandoning his "No Child Left Behind" act, most of the working class are having to choose between mortgage and groceries (food insecurities, as it's called) and Americans truly need health insurance for all.

The problem is very complicated. We're spending billions on a war that is now not going to be spent helping our own country. Could America be truly great? Yeah it could if we had the right leader who cared more about helping our country than his own agenda.

[Edaarin]

Unemployment is hovering at around 6% now, the highest it's been in years. But that figure only takes into account people actively seeking work, not people who don't work because they don't want to.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Edaarin]

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
WTF...Hulkein is hassling someone on debating skills and intelligence? HOLD THE PHONE.


Stray, I've debated you point for point and you've never proved me wrong.. You instead get frustrated and dish out generic insults then claim that the other person is blinded by stupidity.

[Betheny]

How about, you don't give a fuck about the US< so why would you care what happens here?

[Devo]

Hulkien... I've looked at the picture post and I couldn't stop laughing when I saw your face... thanks, it was the best laugh i've had in ages

[StrayRogue]

So some aren't covered? I see. While I agree one should recieve perks for actually getting a job (a side to the English benefit's system I hate is that it can be easily abused), healthcare, I feel, is a fundament of any society. Everyone should have it: Young or old, employed or not.

[Skirmisher]

Oh and Hulkien I wasn't laughing at his comment as if it were at you, but at americans in general.

Last I heard though, brits were getting a bit pudgy themselves.

[Edaarin]

I have yet to see StrayRogue put up a picture, or you if you're really not him. So put up or shut up.

[Scott]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Sintik, what percentage of your country is unemployed?


Couldn't tell you. I don't go googling statistic's. The point is just because someone is unemployed, doesn't mean there are no jobs out there. It's all a matter of how much you are willing to work for what you want. I know several jobs of where I work at where they are hiring people with no job experience and they get full benifits. 401k, health, etc. Work hard, get insurance.... that's how it should be.

[GSLeloo]

If wanted I can quote numbers from Newsweek on the food insecurities. It was an article called "A new kind of poverty". Alternately in the same magazine there was an article about how the economy is actually better. People with two drivers are now owning three cars. It's something like the middle class is dividing and the bottom half is falling into poverty while the top half is moving into the upper class.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
We're spending billions on a war that is now not going to be spent helping our own country. Could America be truly great? Yeah it could if we had the right leader who cared more about helping our country than his own agenda.

See, I read that and I just laugh to myself. Do you have any idea how many BILLIONS of dollars America during Clinton's term AND other presidents terms hands out to other countries? I personally would rather see the money given feeding our American kids then given out to Zimbabwe, but don't say that it's because of Bush that we don't have enough money for the starving and poverty stricken citizens in America when we give out money by the boatload for stupid reasons to foreign countries.


Originally posted by Devo
Hulkien... I've looked at the picture post and I couldn't stop laughing when I saw your face... thanks, it was the best laugh i've had in ages

LOL, what a weak insult.


Originally posted by Skirmisher
Oh and Hulkien I wasn't laughing at his comment as if it were at you, but at americans in general.


Yeah I know, I don't care what this moron Devo says.. I have no self-esteem issues.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Hulkein]

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Originally posted by StrayRogue
WTF...Hulkein is hassling someone on debating skills and intelligence? HOLD THE PHONE.


Stray, I've debated you point for point and you've never proved me wrong.. You instead get frustrated and dish out generic insults then claim that the other person is blinded by stupidity.

Again, I remind you of the shite your produced in your "a hetrosexual marriage is natural" BS. I don't need to prove myself to a moron who thinks having nice pecks and 0% body-fat is the be-all end-all of existence. Hope you are a good swimmer.

[Devo]

I shouldn't have to put up a picture to prove i'm not some geek who plays Gemstone. I know who I am and who I have been for the last 21 years...

[Edaarin]

Don't rag on the way other people look then Stray.

[Devo]

See, I read that and I just laugh to myself. Do you have any idea how many BILLIONS of dollars America during Clinton's term AND other presidents terms hands out to other countries? I personally would rather see the money given out to Zimbabwe feeding our American kids, but don't say that it's because of Bush that we don't have enough money for the starving and poverty stricken citizens in America when we give out money by the boatload for stupid reasons to foreign countries.

Why the fuck would you want money going to Zimbabwe? There are more human rights attrocities occuring there than most other countries in the world. Mugabe should be hung in public



[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Devo]

[StrayRogue]

Erm, I'm not.

[GSLeloo]

I'm actually slightly with Hulkein on one thing.. It would be nice to see our money sent to Zimbabwe if it was used to help feed their starving people.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Originally posted by GSLeloo
We're spending billions on a war that is now not going to be spent helping our own country. Could America be truly great? Yeah it could if we had the right leader who cared more about helping our country than his own agenda.

See, I read that and I just laugh to myself. Do you have any idea how many BILLIONS of dollars America during Clinton's term AND other presidents terms hands out to other countries? I personally would rather see the money given out to Zimbabwe feeding our American kids, but don't say that it's because of Bush that we don't have enough money for the starving and poverty stricken citizens in America when we give out money by the boatload for stupid reasons to foreign countries.

You realize that these "handouts" are at a high interest rate? You realize that all the third world countries who've borrowed from the IMF and WB now owe nearly as much in interest as they have borrowed? You realize that most your "charity" money you donate doesn't go to paying for actual care, but paying off the actuall DEBT they have created. $800 bil would clothe and feed every man, woman and child on the planet, in my estimation. I'd much rather they spend it on that.

[peam]

They're like Graysalin and Atheana, except with bad teeth.

[Scott]

Originally posted by peam
They're like Graysalin and Atheana, except with bad teeth.

ouch.

[StrayRogue]

Remind me, mods, about how you give people shit for posting endless, pointless, one line threads, and then how you yourselves create endless, pointless, oneline threads moaning about it, then go and do it yourselves?

[Xcalibur]

Someone big cannot laugh of someone that is as big.

Moral of the story?

[peam]

It's good to know that you have an idea just how baseless, uneffective and overwhelmingly ignorant your jabs are now.

[StrayRogue]

Oh believe me X I can crack wise about what kind of fat, spotty, four eyed geek he is, but I don't want the mods down my neck. I'd rather keep it civilised, how they keep insisting they want it.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Devo
I shouldn't have to put up a picture to prove i'm not some geek who plays Gemstone. I know who I am and who I have been for the last 21 years...

You post on a Gemstone board, therefore you are a Gemstone geek. Shut it.

[Devo]

Fuck civilised.... no-one else in the World today is civilised so why should it have to be so on a stupid forum. I have never played, nor intend to play Gemstone for as long as I live - amen.... stinker

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Devo]

[GSLeloo]

Why do we have to keep going into personal attacks? Devo and StrayRogue, you both are being assholes and it just seems like you're doing it simply because you are losing and getting angry. I'm not saying you are losing but usually people who are losers resort to namecalling.

Peam I think is adorable and I can't remember Hulkeins picture but he does not deserve to be made fun of. So fuck you both and shut up.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Oh believe me X I can crack wise about what kind of fat, spotty, four eyed geek he is, but I don't want the mods down my neck. I'd rather keep it civilised, how they keep insisting they want it.

And just what are you?

You've never posted a picture.

SHUT IT!!

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Oh believe me X I can crack wise about what kind of fat, spotty, four eyed geek he is, but I don't want the mods down my neck. I'd rather keep it civilised, how they keep insisting they want it.

Remplace big by dumb, by poor, you got the picture.

I'm sure you could, though :lol:

To ease the topic, i'll add a picture of a Néendertal man

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Devo
Fuck civilised.... no-one else in the World today is civilised so why should it have to be so on a stupid forum

Well, mainly because some of us might like to have a civilised debate about current affairs without throwing out insults at others like they were going out of fashion.

[Edited on 14-12-03 by Miss X]

[Scott]

Strayrogue and Devo are most likely roomates......

[StrayRogue]

Erm Leloo, try disputing some of my prior posts eh? Try disputing those facts.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Devo
Fuck civilised.... no-one else in the World today is civilised so why should it have to be so on a stupid forum. I have never played, nor intend to play Gemstone for as long as I live - amen.... stinker

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Devo]

Bullshit

So how'd you find our forums, then.

[Edaarin]

Endless, one line threads? I don't think I've bitched about those, I'm more irritated by inane useless bullshit designed only to provoke other people, which half of your 4100 posts seeem to be. When they're not "ADDS SO-AND-SO TO HIS TO DO LIST"

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Maimara

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Oh believe me X I can crack wise about what kind of fat, spotty, four eyed geek he is, but I don't want the mods down my neck. I'd rather keep it civilised, how they keep insisting they want it.

And just what are you?

You've never posted a picture.

SHUT IT!!

I tell you what I'm not:

Someone who doesn't moan endlessly about how shitty my life is, or how the fuck I keep fucking up my own life by fucking over the ones I love.

Now you shut it.

EDIT: That's way out of line.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Edaarin]

EDIT: Nice to know I'm not the only one she hasn't dumped her sack load of BS on. I feel so used.

[Edited on 14-12-03 by StrayRogue]

[GSLeloo]

I am not debating your points. Both sides have valid points. I am simply saying stop being a jerk and resorting to namecalling. People who have to make fun of others are usually too stupid to think or something better to say.

[Devo]

Miss X - if you look at debates they often tend not to be civilised. For example, on Question Time the other night David Dimbleby had to shout at an old guy in the audience because he wasn't being civilised... and you're flexing me on not being civilised

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Devo
Miss X - if you look at debates they often tend not to be civilised. For example, on Question Time the other night David Dimbleby had to shout at an old guy in the audience because he wasn't being civilised... and you're flexing me on not being civilised

Actually, debates between most people are civilised. It comes down to respect for other peoples points of view. For example I dont agree with some of the things Tamral said, did I come here posting insults about him? No. I simply stated my point of view, which was contrasted to his. Its not really that hard.

[Betheny]

You know what, if all's that's going to happen in this thing is personal insults and people masturbating to the beat of soldiers dying, I'm out.

[Devo]

If you look at my original post, I simply stated my POV and got slated and you're accusing me of being uncivilised. I think you'll find that my uncivilised nature came about because people disagreed with my POV and then became uncivilised with me.

Bye Bye Maimara

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Devo]

[StrayRogue]

Welcome to the neverending torment of being in the minority in belief Devo.

[Miss X]

Whatever. I give up, Il go visit a political debate forum if I want to have a civilised debate in future.

[Devo]

I thought this was a forum dedicated to some crappy text-based game, not a board for waving American willies

[Scott]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Welcome to the neverending torment of being in the minority in belief Devo.

If you guys are sitting in the same room? Why would you need to respond to eachother in the forums. Just turn around and tell him?

[Devo]

Originally posted by Gemstone101

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Welcome to the neverending torment of being in the minority in belief Devo.

If you guys are sitting in the same room? Why would you need to respond to eachother in the forums. Just turn around and tell him?

I don't know why the fuck you think I know StrayRogue, but he seems like a decent guy with valid points of view.

[Edaarin]

Why are you here then? What's the point debating with Gemstone geeks, if you're not doing anything except for looking for a perverse rise out of pissing off Americans?

[Xcalibur]

Hmmm

Someone bitching on maimara's comments on her life and her love life

Someone bitching on strayrogue's comment on his virtual love life and his bashing comments

someone bitching on the new one because he is bashing on others

Still, Hussein got caught

What a good day it is (as any, actually)

[Scott]

If you two aren't in the same house? Is it OK if a mod checks the IP of both your names and reports back on if you are in the same place?

[Devo]

You can by all means check my IP address, if you have the facility to do so...and I can assure you that I have never met nor do I intend to meet Stray Rogue

[Edaarin]

It's been done. I assumed that the reason they were identical was that you two were roommates splitting your internet connection.

What's the reason now.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
Peam I think is adorable and I can't remember Hulkeins picture but he does not deserve to be made fun of. So fuck you both and shut up.

Heh, I appreciate the kind words but I seriously doubt the guy even went through the trouble of searching to find what page my picture was on.. And even if he did infact look at it, he had nothing to say because I'm a fine looking guy (as in nothing to make fun of, it's hard to not come off as a cocky dick typing about this, lol) so he just threw in a generic insult. This guy is a joke, at least we can all agree on that.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Hulkein]

[Edaarin]

Okay. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and ask you that

If you don't know StrayRogue
and you happen to live in England
and you don't play Gemstone

...how the hell did you wind up in an off topic folder at a Gemstone forum in a thread spewing Anti American flames?

EDIT: Sintik brought up a good point. You found Hulkein's picture in the Picture thread in record time.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Edaarin]

[Betheny]

Got quiet in here. Didn't it.

[peam]

pwn3d

[Ravenstorm]

Actually Stray, it's not that your opinion is in the minority that sp many people argue with you. It's that you come across as an utter moron, resorting to personal attacks whenever you hijack a thread to declare

AMERIKA IS TEH EVUL

Seriously. Half the time I agree with you I don't want to just because you're an embarassment to civilized debate.

You'd really be able to get your point across a lot better, possibly even sway someone to your opinion, if you stop the name calling and learn how to make a point. You're not dumb. Stop backsliding.

On the other hand, Devo has yet to prove he isn't an idiot.

Raven

edited to add:

Yes, I realize the irony of insulting someone in a post about not insulting people. Deliberate.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Ravenstorm]

[Betheny]

It's pretty sad, now Chica's left to hold the UK Chair of the PC all by her lonesome.

I cry a tear. Really.

[Snapp]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Seriously. Half the time I agree with you I don't want to just because you're an embarassment to civilized debate.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Ravenstorm]


Ditto.

[Skirmisher]

Not me, I actually like her as opposed to simply tolerating Stray.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Not me, I actually like her as opposed to simply tolerating Stray.

I was being sarcastic.

Chica reminds me that not all British are (insert semirandom expletives here).

[Scott]

And look at that, Strayrogue and Devo leave at the same time after that. Amusing..... but they aren't the same. Anyway.....

I hope they keep Saddam alive. I'd much rather him suffer through rotting in prison without his 5 billion dollars then getting the easy way out.

[Edaarin]

Anyone know who got the $25 million reward?

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Originally posted by GSLeloo
We're spending billions on a war that is now not going to be spent helping our own country. Could America be truly great? Yeah it could if we had the right leader who cared more about helping our country than his own agenda.

See, I read that and I just laugh to myself. Do you have any idea how many BILLIONS of dollars America during Clinton's term AND other presidents terms hands out to other countries? I personally would rather see the money given feeding our American kids then given out to Zimbabwe, but don't say that it's because of Bush that we don't have enough money for the starving and poverty stricken citizens in America when we give out money by the boatload for stupid reasons to foreign countries.


See, the problem is there, if we cut back on our "givings" t other countries and started spending more on ourself, the people who love to trash talk the US would just start calling us greedy, self centered bastards. So we are damned no matter what we do in "their" eyes.

-Adredrin

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Maimara

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Not me, I actually like her as opposed to simply tolerating Stray.

I was being sarcastic.

Chica reminds me that not all British are (insert semirandom expletives here).
True enough, my error for making it seem otherwise.:(

[Betheny]

I guess that all depends on the Iraqis.

I would hope that execution isn't something that's an acceptable consequence. Yeah, the guy is a real bastard. But you have to start reform somewhere.

[peam]

Edit - This was a reply to Edaarin's question about the reward, by the way.

There was a press conference with that one General... the guy with a hispanic last name? and someone asked that question.

He said he didn't know if/how it would be collected.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by peam]

[Betheny]

My roommate said he'd probably be given asylum in some country like Jordan.

I actually think if he can he'll go to Libya, since Afghanistan is... different than he's used to, now. I guess.

[peam]

Hussein will not be given asylum.

If the Iraqi trial doesn't end with him dead/imprisoned for life, a UN trial will

[Scott]

Originally posted by Maimara
I guess that all depends on the Iraqis.

I would hope that execution isn't something that's an acceptable consequence. Yeah, the guy is a real bastard. But you have to start reform somewhere.

The problem I see with it is.... that if you keep Saddam in an Iraqi prison, you know people will try to get him out. I mean they are willing to blow shit up all the time, they'd try to free him. So I don't know what is the best approach, but I hope we can let him sit in a 8 x 8 cell so he can see what it's like. He sat in his million dollar palaces while his country starved, paybacks are a bitch.

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Gemstone101I hope they keep Saddam alive. I'd much rather him suffer through rotting in prison without his 5 billion dollars then getting the easy way out.

I agree, it would be worse in my opinion to sit rotting in a prison cell till death, contemplating what you've done. He's had a life of over indulgance, I'd love to see how he copes in a tiny room with not a soul to talk to. Perhaps it would provoke some remorse.

I can understand though, that many Iraqi people won't feel safe until they know he's dead and burried. Tough call, glad I'm not the one making it.

[Edaarin]

Man, did you see him on TV? He looked like hell.

[Xcalibur]

Slobodan Milosevic President of Yugoslavia ...

Did as worse as the other asshole..

Hang him!

[Devo]

Right....firstly, you think i['m some guy who plays Gemstone and accuse me of being so. Secondly, you accuse me of being an acquaintance of stray rogues and i'm not, thirdly, Saddam will not be executed and he should be given a fair trial in Iraq

[i remember halloween]

haha, fair? funny hearing that come from someone as unbiased as you.

[Xcalibur]

He'll be executed, Irak will show that way they are turning the page (symbolicly or not)

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Devo
Right....firstly, you think i['m some guy who plays Gemstone and accuse me of being so. Secondly, you accuse me of being an acquaintance of stray rogues and i'm not, thirdly, Saddam will not be executed and he should be given a fair trial in Iraq

Then answer the Mod's question about the IP's. :)

All ya gotta do.

-Adredrin

[Devo]

What was the mod's question?

[HarmNone]

Well, this thread is more than disappointing! To tell you the truth, my politics are not at issue here. Neither are the politics of any one of you. As in most cases, what is being ranted and raved about here are the political actions taken by governments. Not individuals. Governments!

I am not the US government. I am a US citizen. Stray and Devo are not the British government. They are individuals. Why, then, must a discussion like this turn into a shit-slinging contest?

Do I agree with everything the US government does? You can bet your bippy I DO NOT! I feel pretty sure that no sentient being agrees with every political move their government makes. Do I, therefore, hate all British, all French, all Swedes? Do I rant about how I hate Switzerland? No, I do not. I may dislike what the governments of these nations do, but hate the nation as a whole? Ludicrous in the extreme!

Please, guys. Let us take it easy on one another here. There is no need for all this vitriol. There really is not.

Oh, and Devo...to answer the question you have asked, the Mod asked (I believe) why your IP address was identical to StrayRogue's IP address.

HarmNone refuses to hate. Period.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone
You can bet your bippy...

Damn you're old.

Raven

P.S. Sock it to me.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Ravenstorm]

[Ilvane]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Ilvane, why did you say 'the economy' would be overlooked when Bush is up for re-election? The economy has been on the rise for the past few months, and along with that more jobs will open up. Bush is doing a great job, he'll get my vote, and he'll win the election.

USA.

The unemployment rate is going down, basically because the people who are on there have been denied extension of benefits, so they are taken off the rolls--and that makes the rate go down(Remember the Republicans have also said that a bunch will not have extensions on December 21st, so Merry Christmas, unemployed!)

Also..Americans have more debt than ever, they are being extended more credit, and that is being used, but the consumer debt is high.(not to mention the nation debt was going down during Clinton, but is now basically screwed because we couldn't be bothered to wait to get help from others in Iraq, and are now going to wind up footing the entire bill, with the exception of Britan.;))

They passed a joke of a medicare prescription bill, which will actually cost more money to the seniors than it will help. All the bill does is inhibit the competition and gives a great deal of help to the drug companies. If you don't believe me, read about it.;)

I could go on for a while on the reasons why I don't think Bush should be re-elected, but this is a thread on the war, and I think our military did a great job.

I still am not going to vote for Bush.

-A

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Ilvane]

[Xcalibur]

:D

[GSTamral]

Ilvane, I have to take exception to your statements. That the unemployed are no longer considered trying to find a job after 6 months of collecting unemployment was the brain-child of John F. Kennedy, adapted from the right to work bills passed under Roosevelt.

When Ronald Reagan entered office, the average american was spending 1.016 of every 1.000 earned. By the time Reagan left office, the average American was spending .988 of every 1.000. When Bill Clinton entered office, the average American was spending .979, or the lowest amount since 1921, when Americans were almost forced into savings by the rising of the public markets and the policies brought about by Woodrow Wilson's war efforts in WW1.

By the time Bill Clinton left office, at the end of the year 2000, we were already in the deepest liquidity trap in the history of this country. (deeper than 1929). The average American was spending 1.029 for every 1.000 earned. This was largely due to the increase in taxes, and the continuation of the marriage penalty.

Furthermore, over the course of the first 6 years (up through the end of 1998, the last positive savings year for this country, thanks to PRIOR policies that Clinton had yet to fuck up), as small business values began to rise, the death tax (or stamp tax, if you prefer the 1918 terminology) was destroying the american middle class. When the owner of a small business died, often the business and family died with it. The EWMA limit, which had been fixed at 550,000, with a rising rate from 37% up to 55% at 1.1 million, had not moved, this despite the increase in land prices and business in general.

The lack of policy to help or even alleviate this situation put pressure on the job market within larger corporations. At one end, it was in public interest that more people become employed, and with the fall of the small business structure, larger companies were saturated with overqualified employees. At the other end is the lack of long term incentives to do so.

The corporate tax rate was kept at almost ridiculous levels, and the only reason many were willing to hire at the time was due to the money already in the system. As that slowly faded, so did the desire for the newer employees. Slowly, this led to a cycle effect, where less money meant companies needed less employees, and with less employment, even less money was in the system.

Furthermore, Clinton's further empowerment of the unions forced many companies to end up keeping the employees they desired the least, which forced restructuring of corporate systems, and getting rid of the employees that were the basis of design of new technologies.

With this diminishing money supply, as well as the utter stupidity in democratic policy to strengthen the dollar (a true wtf move that they even admit to this day as a blunder), american imports fell from already low levels. The attractiveness of foreign goods increased, especially in the car market, because 1)GM does not know how to design cars, and 2)GM's union is the worst sack of shit money can buy for 25.00+ an hour, producing lower quality cars by the year, with management putting cheaper and cheaper parts and the union assembling it as though they were blind rats.

We CONTINUE to be in a liquidity trap. George Bush has done little to bring us out, although the economy has finally made a turn for the better in late months.

I am terrified at what a stupid idiot like Dean, Kerry, Gore, or Lieberman would do to our country. I vote for George Bush not out of confidence in his ability to create new economic policy, but rather because a liberal economic agenda would kill us right now, and while he may have done things I don't agree with, he has been a very active leader, and has stuck to his guns. I may be pro-choice, but to actually vote based on that belief would relegate me to the same level of ignorance as many of the hippies of today. I'll vote based on what the president can and can't do. Continued leadership under George Bush can lead this economy out. A change to a more socialistic tax structure cannot. We need the M1 money supply to work for us right now, and it is finally starting to. Cutting that off at the knee with an idiot like Dean would probably put us in the EXACT same boat as japan right now.

[Lord Deprav]

Wow you guys are talking about how we can spend our money better and unemplayment....blah,blah,blah.

This post is about find Saddam Hussein who has been one of the major reasons are gasoline is so expensive. Heres a solution...Get Saddam...Lower gas prices....People can afford to drive to work....

Anyways I don't care that much about that. He is the most evil fucking man I have seen in my life time. He has never done anything good for human kind. He deserves everything that is coming to him. If you want to argue it, then I will simply say your a dumb fuck. How much of a coincidence is it that every country is thanking the United States of America for this.

Deprav

[JustMe]

His private room in his palace had shag carpet. LMAO

Anyway, I'm glad they caught him and I'd love to see him rot and starve to death but I think he'd escape if that happened, so I hope he gets the death penalty.

[Hulkein]

Good post Tamral, very informative.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Damn you're old.

Raven

P.S. Sock it to me.

[Edited on 12-14-2003 by Ravenstorm]

I am NOT old. I am experienced. Sintik is old!

HarmNone swats Raven with a sock...thwap :D

[Edited on 12-15-2003 by HarmNone]

[Kurili]

Mutters sockittomesockittomesockittomesockittome

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Devo
What was the mod's question?

1. Why your IP is the same, and.

2. If you're not friends with strayrogue, and you don't play GS, and you're from England, why are you in an off topic folder of an online game that you adamantly hate. If you don't know about it...

[Xcalibur]

You can't hate what you don't know.

Still, it's strange.....

Donald Rumsfeld saids he (Hussein) would be treated as a POW, according to the Geneva's convention.



[Edited on 15-12-03 by Xcalibur]

[Lord Deprav]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
You can't hate what you don't know.

Still, it's strange.....

Donald Rumsfeld saids he (Hussein) would be treated as a POW, according to the Geneva's convention.



[Edited on 15-12-03 by Xcalibur]

Yah I watched 60 minutes too! And I thought it was interesting they had Rumsfield on (who is naturally a liar) but I could read the truth in his eyes. I also thought it was cool that they had that Dan Rathers interview replayed and analyzed. Very Ironic. (I remember watching that interview and thinkin to myself will we ever find him) Very cool episode though!

Deprav

[SpunGirl]

How lame that he's not answering.

How cool is it that we caught Saddam. For anyone who throws out the remarks that it's "about time" and "took long enough," et cetera, I'll ask you this. How long do you think it would take forces from a foreign country to find one of our leaders hiding somewhere in, say, New Mexico? Not easy.

And that's assuming our guys wouldn't be stupid enough to hide in their hometown and let doctors who looked in on them get away.

They mentioned on the news today that Iraq abolished the death penalty some time ago, but but they might re-instate it when it comes time for Saddam's trial.

I think it'll be interesting.

-K

[Edited on 12-15-2003 by SpunGirl]

[Betheny]

I think they ought to just give him a new identity cleaning the spooge out of jerk-off stalls in porn stores.

[Devo]

No matter how severe the crime, everyone should be given the right to a fair trial and everyone who is saying he should just be executed is as bad as Saddam. He will be tried, found guilty and then either executed (easy way out) or exiled...

++Edit - I've just read this:
"Mr Rumsfeld said he was being accorded the privileges of a prisoner-of-war under the Geneva Convention although America was "not defining him as such".
Which makes me think even less of Donald Rumsfeld...



[Edited on 12-15-2003 by Devo]

[HouseofElves]

Originally posted by Maimara
I have friends over there, asswipe.

I hope you get gang-raped by a hoarde of lepers.

Dude, Maimara is all about the idiots getting gang-raped, I love it.

But yeah, I know some people over there, and things like this really keep them going. God bless them, and America.

[Chelle]

Originally posted by Devo
No matter how severe the crime, everyone should be given the right to a fair trial and everyone who is saying he should just be executed is as bad as Saddam. He will be tried, found guilty and then either executed (easy way out) or exiled...

++Edit - I've just read this:
"Mr Rumsfeld said he was being accorded the privileges of a prisoner-of-war under the Geneva Convention although America was "not defining him as such".
Which makes me think even less of Donald Rumsfeld...



[Edited on 12-15-2003 by Devo]

Notice how he totally ignores that his IP addy is the same as Strays. :lol:

Anyway, it is wonderful that they finally got him. His Baath Party robots were bombing random U.S. soldiers, busses, and their own people. Maybe this will send a message you can't stay hidden for very long and terrorisim won't be tolerated.

I have no doubt Osama will be captured. For all we know he has been and has been killed. We don't always know everything that goes on. ??

I had already decided to vote for Bush next election and this only seals the deal.

Good job soldiers!

And as far as I am concerned they did find WMD. Saddam himself WAS a WMD.

[Devo]

I admit that I do know Stray, but I can assure you that we are not the same person. I am one of his Uni friends and we live in the same house, hence the similar IP addresses. I can also promise everyone that my real name is Devo and that I have never played Gemstone, but have watched Stray playing it many times

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Devo
I admit that I do know Stray, but I can assure you that we are not the same person. I am one of his Uni friends and we live in the same house, hence the similar IP addresses. I can also promise everyone that my real name is Devo and that I have never played Gemstone, but have watched Stray playing it many times

Not similar. Identical.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Devo
You can by all means check my IP address, if you have the facility to do so...and I can assure you that I have never met nor do I intend to meet Stray Rogue

Right....firstly, you think i['m some guy who plays Gemstone and accuse me of being so. Secondly, you accuse me of being an acquaintance of stray rogues and i'm not, thirdly, Saddam will not be executed and he should be given a fair trial in Iraq

I admit that I do know Stray, but I can assure you that we are not the same person. I am one of his Uni friends and we live in the same house, hence the similar IP addresses. I can also promise everyone that my real name is Devo and that I have never played Gemstone, but have watched Stray playing it many times



Why is it people insist on lieing on this board? I guess we must all be stupid and never catch anyone...Yah, that must be it.

-Adredrin

[StrayRogue]

I guess no of you guys have ever used a network. Nor have any of you heard of people being prohibited to play because of a network. Kranar is looking into this as we speak. I will enjoy it immensely listening to each and everyone of you eating your own fucking words here. As for lying, please, anyone, point out to me where I said I didn't know him.

[Hulkein]

You lied by omission, he said 'I can assure you that I have never met nor do I intend to meet Stray Rogue' and you didn't say anything to counter it. I don't really care, I didn't need to see proof to know you are both liars.

[StrayRogue]

Erm no. I don't lie. You don't have any proof for that, retard.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I guess no of you guys have ever used a network. Nor have any of you heard of people being prohibited to play because of a network. Kranar is looking into this as we speak. I will enjoy it immensely listening to each and everyone of you eating your own fucking words here. As for lying, please, anyone, point out to me where I said I didn't know him.

Stray Stray..please point out where I ever mentioned you in that entire post? All three quotes are from Devo. :) You seem defensive all the time. :(

As for the network thing..I lived on a network for well over 8 months..Yes I know they have strikingly similar IP addresses. This normally happens because a router splits the internet line (normally broadband) between computers, and assigns each one their own "generic" IP address. In the US, this are easy to tell because all routers assign the same "generic" IP "bits" for the first three section. That is how Daina and I had the SAME EXACT IP address when I was living in the home. But, if you two share the same connection, you cannot have the same EXACT IP address. This would confuse the router, and it would not know where to send the information packets. This is why the last "bite" of the IP is different for each computer. IE. 100, 101, 102, 103..those are the normal last set for a 4 slot router.

Now, in the US, 99.99% of the routers all assign the IP of 192.168.0.###, where the ### = Which slot on the rounter your in..the first slot being 100, second being 101, etc etc.

I must be honest when I say I dono how the ones in England work, as I've never set one up, but I'd tend to think they are not all that different.

Now on the other hand, I do know that all of those IP addresses assigned to the comptuers all push through the IP address of the router itself. Some websites do ignore the assisnged ones and use the router address. This is why Pogo.com will only allow one computer on a network to connect at a time. I'm not sure how this website views that information, but that COULD be a possible cause of it.

-Adredrin

[Hulkein]

Well, since by the definition, it is almost impossible to have solid evidence of someone lying by ommission.. But what I do know is you were 'Online' at the time when Devo was saying 'why do you keep saying I am Stray' or 'I don't know this Stray Rogue' and you didn't respond then... Or how about the part where you said to him 'Welcome to my life in the minority, Devo.' That is obviously implying you just met him on the boards. Again, it's lying by ommission, not a big deal Stray, we all know your type.

[StrayRogue]

Sorry for getting you mixed in there Adredrin. As for the IP address thing, I am sure it can be proven we are on two seperate computers. I can have the four other PC's in the house do the same if you wish. I don't care to be honest, as I know Kranar will find the truth. We are using a router, as you said. It splits the line six ways. As for Hulkein, retardein, sorry, when I said welcome to my life, I meant welcome to the hypocritical, hyperintensivem ignorant members (only some) of the PC boards, namely you fine, foolish self.

[Hulkein]

Yes, I understand what you meant, perfectly. My point is there is no reason for you to post that when he is in the same room (or house) as you.

Good reading comprehension there Stray.

[Edited on 12-15-2003 by Hulkein]

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Devo
I admit that I do know Stray, but I can assure you that we are not the same person. I am one of his Uni friends and we live in the same house, hence the similar IP addresses. I can also promise everyone that my real name is Devo and that I have never played Gemstone, but have watched Stray playing it many times

Perhaps you might clear something up for me, Devo. You came here to post in a pretty serious topic. I would think you wished your comments to be taken seriously.

Why, then, did you lie about knowing StrayRogue? The lie served no purpose that I can see. It is like the lie that might be told by a child caught with his hand in the biscuit jar, eh? It certainly did not enhance your credibility in subjects of serious merit, did it?

I am not saying this to put you down in any way, really. You are certainly not the first person who has come here posting lies, and you probably will not be the last. I would like to understand the reasoning behind doing so.

HarmNone...call her curious :)

[Drew2]

StrayRogue and Devo WILL HAVE THE SAME IP ADDRESS.

Anything behind the router doesn't matter worth crap. On the internet side, any computer that passes something to the router gets the IP address that the ISP gives to the router. All crossing of information back to the computer or between computers goes on in the router.

Most routers assign the IP of 192.168.0.100, or something similar. That number means nothing outside of the network, because anything that receives the IP address sees the same IP coming from that router.

So, StrayRogue and Devo will have the same IP no matter what. The only way to see if there really are two computers would be to connect to their network either remotely or locally.


Edited because I'm dyslexic maybe.

[Edited on 12-15-2003 by Tayre]

[i]Originally posted by HarmNone
Perhaps you might clear something up for me, Devo. You came here to post in a pretty serious topic. I would think you wished your comments to be taken seriously.

Why, then, did you lie about knowing StrayRogue? The lie served no purpose that I can see. It is like the lie that might be told by a child caught with his hand in the biscuit jar, eh? It certainly did not enhance your credibility in subjects of serious merit, did it?

I am not saying this to put you down in any way, really. You are certainly not the first person who has come here posting lies, and you probably will not be the last. I would like to understand the reasoning behind doing so.

HarmNone...call her curious :)

Harmnon is so eloquent in her insults she makes it appear like a kind level headed post when deep down inside you can see the little devil going neener neener neener

[HarmNone]

Heh. Actually, Edine, I am really curious as to why people do this. They are seeking to be heard, or they would not be posting. Yet, they make their words meaningless by couching their relevant comments in lies. It seems to me as though they are cutting their own throats from the get-go, and I would really like to know what they hope to accomplish.

I am, by nature, an endlessly curious student of human nature. I hope, by asking questions of those whose actions I do not understand, to learn a bit more about what motivates people to do certain things.

If Devo chooses to answer me, perhaps we will all learn more about what motivates people to lie when the truth would serve them better, eh?

For the record, if I choose to insult anyone here, Edine, there will be no doubt that an insult has been delievered. There are those who will vouch for that. :D

HarmNone

*Edited to add one final little note to Edine ;)*


[Edited on 12-15-2003 by HarmNone]

[Betheny]

I dunno man, if my roommate were to start posting, I would think you all would notice the difference in posting styles.

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Devo
You can by all means check my IP address, if you have the facility to do so...and I can assure you that I have never met nor do I intend to meet Stray Rogue


Originally posted by Devo
I admit that I do know Stray, but I can assure you that we are not the same person.

All these assurances! What to believe, what to believe!

Stray either did something really stupid by trying to create an "anonymous" persona to agree with him, or he has friends that are even stupider than he is.

Sorry, Stray. Remind me not to listen to anything you have to say in the future. I didn't always agree with you, but I still gave you some credibility for not being a liar.

Just because YOU didn't say you didn't know Devo doesn't mean you weren't lying, either. Like someone else said, you lied by omission. You posted RIGHT before or after him in many instances. You even quoted him and said, "Welcome to being in the minority."

You're lame.

-K

[Chelle]

I just don't see the need for denying he knows, Stray when he lives with him? They must be best buds for having the same posting style too. So he has two computers in his home and on one he's Devo and on the other hes Stray.


Edited to go back on topic and say:

I hear Saddam is talking like a scared school girl and telling all, as cowards tend to do when they want to save their asses.

[Edited on 12-15-2003 by Chelle]

[Xcalibur]

One thing... isn't it illegal to use IP of posters in ANY way beside ... beside denociation to autorities about porn, pedophily and so on?

WHO cares if he's Devo, that just show how low he can go to be always right.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
One thing... isn't it illegal to use IP of posters in ANY way beside ... beside denociation to autorities about porn, pedophily and so on?


They consented, so no.

[Xcalibur]

I consent to being shot, that make it legal? That crap must stop still, it's annoying, let him play his game as teeoncy, as warclaidhm, as ganryu, as klaive did

As if anyone could agree it was not him anyway...

edited: it's your game, man, as you wish

[Edited on 15-12-03 by Xcalibur]

[StrayRogue]

Again, let Kranar post the evidence when he gets it X. You think I really need to create some other account to add any authority to my own posts? Do you think I care that much?

[Chelle]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Again, let Kranar post the evidence when he gets it X. You think I really need to create some other account to add any authority to my own posts? Do you think I care that much?

Sure. I think you do care that much to do exactly that, because it seems when someone doesn't agree with you, you kind of go batty. You can't help but refresh, and reply, refresh, and reply.

Besides, it seems it's becoming a trend here on the boards. A person gets so desperate for someone to be on "their side" they create other accounts to do so.

Never fails though they get caught. Finally after all the denying they finally realise it is al lost cause and finally admit to it. Therefore losing more of their credibility.

[Edited on 12-15-2003 by Chelle]

[Sean]

so uh .. whats this i hear about saddam being captured? any thoughts on that?

[StrayRogue]

Fair enough. But ultimately, do you think anyone else's opinion, beyond my own, actually matters to me? Seriously? You think some semi-literate French Candian matters to me? Do you think some self-obssessed whore matters to me? Do you think some nazi fuck head matters to me? Do you think some muscle-heads matter to me?

[Betheny]

Can we stop the insults?

[Skirmisher]

Stray, you are coming out looking pretty darned sad here.

If that guy is really not you but a "friend", please ask him as a friend to not post anymore cause he does you a hell of alot more harm than good.

Sure I dissagree with much of your point of view, but that is half the fun of coming to a bbs like this, to share and contast ideas with other from different backrounds.

You have played a part in some very fun and enlightening threads on this bbs, please try to not let your anger and frustration get the better of you and make you post like you did here.

You really are better than that even if you lose your temper at times.

[Sean]

so i guess theres no opinions on saddam then...