Real ID today, DNA fingerprinting tomorrow - No Civil Rights for you!

[Soriel]

Homeland Security to press ahead with Real ID
Posted by Anne Broache
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security on Friday plans to take the next step in getting its controversial Real ID plan off the ground, despite opposition from numerous states and privacy groups.


Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff

(Credit: U.S. Department of Homeland Security)At a midday press conference in Washington, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff is scheduled to take the wraps off final regulations for the electronic identification card mandate and to make another pitch for the scheme's perceived importance in keeping Americans safe from terrorist threats.

The new rules, which are a few months behind schedule, are supposed to build on a draft version released last March for public comment.

Chertoff himself has been mum on the details ahead of his public appearance Friday. But according to anonymous sources cited by the Associated Press and The Washington Post, the department has made at least one significant change to its earlier plans: pushing back the deadlines by which the new identification cards will be required to board airplanes and enter federal buildings.

Before, Homeland Security had envisioned requiring the IDs to be in place, starting May 11, 2008--and no later than 2013--unless states had applied for an extension.

But under the new rules, Americans won't be expected to present Real ID-compliant identification cards until 2014. Even then, the mandate will apply only to Americans younger than 50 at the time, in an apparent effort to give some disgruntled state motor vehicle departments more time to issue the licenses. The requirements would be broadened to all Americans by 2017.

"We've worked very closely with the states, in terms of developing a plan that I think will be quite inexpensive, reasonable to implement, and produce the results that...are a part of the core recommendation of the 9/11 Commission, which is secure identification when driver's licenses are presented," Chertoff said Thursday, according to a transcript of his remarks, at a meeting of departmental advisers.

Largely because of the price tag, 17 states have already enacted legislation rejecting the Real ID requirements, which Congress passed as part of an emergency spending bill in 2005, and several others were considering such a step, according to the American Civil Liberties Union, one of the most prominent voices against the plan. But according to the AP and the Post, federal officials have somehow devised a way to reduce the expected $14 billion in costs to states to $3.9 billion under the revised rules.

It's unclear how the department plans to assuage security and privacy concerns about the cards, including whether data encoded on their two-dimensional bar codes will be encrypted to guard against misuse. The AP reported that states will have a "menu" of security options from which to choose but will not be required to embed "microchips"--ostensibly a reference to radio frequency identification, or RFID, technology, which, depending on the type, could be read either from a distance or close-up.

[Clove]

You got something against being able to verify your identity?

[Hulkein]

If it is only used for boarding airplanes then I'm fine with it. To enter federal buildings? Why?

I do have something against being forced to verify my identity when there is no reason for me to do it.

[Warriorbird]

The application procedures are very similar to what's in place in Virginia now. They're a serious pain in the ass.

[Soriel]

No, but I have something against the government spending tax dollars on something that A.) Will violate my privacy as it'll transfer my SS ID and other very personal information between government departments and NGO's(hey if they can lose a computer with nuclear secrets...I'm worried).

B.) Ultimately won't work, because eventually people will find a way to bypass it. In fact, it'll just enrich those trying to exploit migrant workers by shipping them like sardines in freight trains and trucks.

C.) I want MORE OF MY MONEY. And not spend it on crap. I live out here in Nevada, and frankly I really don't give a two cents if a terrorist blows something up in Washington or New York. Over 7000 kids go out on their first Prom and never come back (I.E. Die in car accidents) EACH YEAR. GET OVER IT Already!

[Clove]

No, but I have something against the government spending tax dollars on something that A.) Will violate my privacy as it'll transfer my SS ID and other very personal information between government departments and NGO's(hey if they can lose a computer with nuclear secrets...I'm worried).

But you're okay with the SS Admin, IRS, [Your State] Dept. of Revenue, [Your State] DMV, Bank, Credit Card Company and place of business having your SSN?



B.) Ultimately won't work, because eventually people will find a way to bypass it. In fact, it'll just enrich those trying to exploit migrant workers by shipping them like sardines in freight trains and trucks.

Good point. We should just get rid of all ID's.

[CrystalTears]

I live out here in Nevada, and frankly I really don't give a two cents if a terrorist blows something up in Washington or New York. Over 7000 kids go out on their first Prom and never come back (I.E. Die in car accidents) EACH YEAR. GET OVER IT Already!
Nice attitude.

[Sean of the Thread]

Where the hell are all these new dumb fucks like soriel coming from all of the sudden?

[Soriel]

But you're okay with the SS Admin, IRS, [Your State] Dept. of Revenue, [Your State] DMV, Bank, Credit Card Company and place of business having your SSN?



Good point. We should just get rid of all ID's.


OR OR!! Wait for it!.... We could spend that 16 billion dollars on building a great wall of southern Cali/Nevada/New Mexico with machine gun turrets. Or better yet use it to fix our credit crisis which is like 1000 times more important currently, especially to stave off a recession.

Making "Better" ID's is like the situation with counterfiters and the treasury dept or rich tax payers and the IRS. They change the rules/product a bit and theres people who are better trained/more determined then the federal gov (EPSECIALLY the fed gov.) who'll out smart it everytime.

Then the fed makes even "better" ID's, then THAT gets broken.Then the fed makes even "better" ID's, then THAT gets broken.Then the fed makes even "better" ID's, then THAT gets broken.Then the fed makes even "better" ID's, then THAT gets broken. Loop infinty.

[Kembal]

But you're okay with the SS Admin, IRS, [Your State] Dept. of Revenue, [Your State] DMV, Bank, Credit Card Company and place of business having your SSN?

All of those institutions have vested interests in keeping that SSN safe, and thus probably have procedures in place protecting that data. (or at least, they better)

Any other organization that the information would be transferred to is less likely to have stringent enough protections.

[Warriorbird]

Banks lose personal info all the time.

[BigWorm]

I think ClydeR is a sock puppet, because he has only posted in the Politics folder, because I just can't get someone trolling here from somewhere else. Soriel on the other hand, started awesome threads like "I'm rolling Batman!", so I'm reserving judgment for now.

[Soriel]

Nice attitude.

For the first year I was like "Wow, thats terrible", I got one of those 9/11 license plates and donated money to the 9/11 fund.

Now... it's like, "Ok, wait wait... we need to invade 2 countries and we'll need 10 trillion dollars from YOU to do this." ... "We need to protect you, and thus we'll spend another bajillion dollars on something utterly useless"... Next it'll be "Ok guys, I think Mars will soon launch their Space Marines at us...we need another Bajillion trillion dollars from you guys, k thx!"

[Hulkein]

He does make a point though. You can compare making better IDs to putting in a patch for a game like Counter-Strike to stop hackers. It works for a very short time and the same people who counterfeited your old IDs do it with the new ones. The only advantage it gives the government is the ability to track/demand identification from generally law abiding citizen's.

It's a waste of time and effort. Put the resources on the actual border.

[BigWorm]

OR OR!! Wait for it!.... We could spend that 16 billion dollars on building a great wall of southern Cali/Nevada/New Mexico with machine gun turrets.

Because building a wall between two countries always works. For example, the Berlin Wall and the Maginot Line worked awesome! And the Mongols never once got past that great wall and fucked up the Chinese.

[CrystalTears]

So because people can (and will) find a loophole in a system we should just stop trying to improve it? Just keep going with the status quo?

[Hulkein]

Because building a wall between two countries always works. For example, the Berlin Wall and the Maginot Line worked awesome! And the Mongols never once got past that great wall and fucked up the Chinese.

You're comparing Mongol armies to immigrants? The comparative power between China back then and America now versus Mongol armies and unorganized Mexicans isn't even close.


So because people can (and will) find a loophole in a system we should just stop trying to improve it?

When there are better ways to use the resources that will effectively fight the same root problem, yes.

[BigWorm]

Ever heard of a fucking boat?

[Hulkein]

1) It's harder to move the same numbers via boat than on ground.

2) It's not impossible to patrol the waterways they would use.

[Sean of the Thread]

For the first year I was like "Wow, thats terrible", I got one of those 9/11 license plates and donated money to the 9/11 fund.

Now... it's like, "Ok, wait wait... we need to invade 2 countries and we'll need 10 trillion dollars from YOU to do this." ... "We need to protect you, and thus we'll spend another bajillion dollars on something utterly useless"... Next it'll be "Ok guys, I think Mars will soon launch their Space Marines at us...we need another Bajillion trillion dollars from you guys, k thx!"

You get to vote.

If that doesn't work for you get the fuck out. I hear Venezuela has room and freedom of speech is alive and well there.

[BigWorm]

My main point about building a wall is that is doesn't solve the problem. What about the people already here? In my opinion, the only way to deal with the problem is to enforce penalties for the companies who employ illegals, but no one wants to really make that a reality for fear of being labeled anti-business.

This is also very off the topic of Real IDs, which are fucked up. Show me you papers, citizen!

[Sean of the Thread]

Because building a wall between two countries always works. For example, the Berlin Wall and the Maginot Line worked awesome! And the Mongols never once got past that great wall and fucked up the Chinese.

Holy shit. I was reserving judgment on you as well until this stupid ass post. I'm not sure who your alter ego is yet but you should keep it a secret after shit like this.

Seriously.... Maginot Line?... Mongol hordes? Are you fucking kidding me.

[Hulkein]

You get to vote.

If that doesn't work for you get the fuck out. I hear Venezuela has room and freedom of speech is alive and well there.

In addition to voting he also gets to make his voice heard in whatever medium he chooses, which is what he is doing.

[Warriorbird]

An incomplete wall is in itself a pretty dumb idea.

[Sean of the Thread]

In addition to voting he also gets to make his voice heard in whatever medium he chooses, which is what he is doing.

Yep. Doesn't change the facts. The biggest fact being tough shit.

[Sean of the Thread]

An incomplete wall is in itself a pretty dumb idea.

Ooo I know how about mine fields!

[BigWorm]

Oh, and also the wall will let us totally kick ass in the War on Terror, because the only way a terrorist could get to America is through Mexico

[Sean of the Thread]

Not the only way but the easiest no doubt.

I'm not totally against illegals anyways. They mow my yard pretty damned cheap. Put up a fence for 5 bucks last year. And paid a few thousand for a piece of shit van that should have sold for $100.

Oh and they're easy to rob.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'd come over the canadian wall if I was a terrorist!

[BigWorm]

I'm not totally against illegals anyways. They mow my yard pretty damned cheap.

As long as you're willing to pay them, illegal immigrants will be coming here. And you think you're winning, because you get to pay unfair wages.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

"We" are all illegal immigrants, unless you are a Native American. I think we win by allowing cultures and races to co-exist in america.

[Clove]

All of those institutions have vested interests in keeping that SSN safe, and thus probably have procedures in place protecting that data. (or at least, they better)

Any other organization that the information would be transferred to is less likely to have stringent enough protections.

Tell yourself that. The same agencies that have your SNN would still have it. The only difference is that these agencies will have to cross-reference with each other.

[Hulkein]

"We" are all illegal immigrants, unless you are a Native American. I think we win by allowing cultures and races to co-exist in america.

I'm not an immigrant, let alone an illegal one.

[ClydeR]

We are at war! If you support the Global War on Terrorism, then you have to support Real ID. This is not the time for whining about how burdensome it is to need a plastic card to enter a secure building. Any security measures put in place during GWOT can always be relaxed after the war is over.

The only way to tell an American from a Muslim terrorist is with a good ID system. Without a good ID system, we will have people impersonating someone they are not. And that will lead to terrorism. With a good ID system, we can keep terrorists out of this country in the first place, allowing us to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.

[Stanley Burrell]

C.) I want MORE OF MY MONEY. And not spend it on crap. I live out here in Nevada, and frankly I really don't give a two cents if a terrorist blows something up in Washington or New York. Over 7000 kids go out on their first Prom and never come back (I.E. Die in car accidents) EACH YEAR. GET OVER IT Already!

As long as you mean upstate New York, you's cool. And Washington, Connecticut.

Oh my God. Washington Connecticut. Suburban Bridgeport. Eye-twitch-eye-twitch-eye-twitch-eye-twitch-eye-twitch-eye-twitch-eye-twitch-eye-twitch-eye-twitch-eye-twitch-eye-twitch-eye-twitch.

[BigWorm]

We are at war! If you support the Global War on Terrorism, then you have to support Real ID. This is not the time for whining about how burdensome it is to need a plastic card to enter a secure building. Any security measures put in place during GWOT can always be relaxed after the war is over.

The only way to tell an American from a Muslim terrorist is with a good ID system. Without a good ID system, we will have people impersonating someone they are not. And that will lead to terrorism. With a good ID system, we can keep terrorists out of this country in the first place, allowing us to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.

Yeah, if you're not willing to give up every shred of privacy, you're obviously a terrorist. I mean, if you haven't done anything wrong, then you don't have anything to hide. ClydeR, I need you to post your entire medical history and all bank account information, so that we can verify you aren't a radical Islamic terrorist.

[Tsa`ah]

I have a real ID, it's called my driver's license.

Instead of trying to create this network of checks, use the systems in place and link those.

If you want a real ID, force each state to contribute their ID databases to a central network and require some uniformity in state issued IDs.

After that is done, put pressure on the states to ensure that someone can't waltz in to the DMV with bogus papers and steal someone's identity.

There's no damn need to require me to get another form of ID before I can board a domestic flight. There's certainly no need for me to get another form of ID before I'm "allowed" to enter a building that is paid for by my taxes.

Essentially they want a domestic passport, and I'm sorry, there's absolutely no need for it.

[Kefka]

We are at war! If you support the Global War on Terrorism, then you have to support Real ID. This is not the time for whining about how burdensome it is to need a plastic card to enter a secure building. Any security measures put in place during GWOT can always be relaxed after the war is over.

The only way to tell an American from a Muslim terrorist is with a good ID system. Without a good ID system, we will have people impersonating someone they are not. And that will lead to terrorism. With a good ID system, we can keep terrorists out of this country in the first place, allowing us to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.

That does sound a bit Bushbot-ish. Real ID won't stop terrorism. Nobody has explained why it's needed besides convenience for the government. If the system is hacked, there goes all our information on a platter.

[Atlanteax]

I think Real ID will contribute to ID protection... as all other forms of ID are scrapped, and it'd be harder to impersonate someone if it's only one kind of ID being spotlighted (as it'd be in use consistently, as opposed to now and then).

[Celephais]

Where the hell are all these new dumb fucks like soriel coming from all of the sudden?
RNI - Retarded newbie infusion.. happens every couple months.


Any security measures put in place during GWOT can always be relaxed after the war is over.
How on earth do you think the war will "end". It's like the war on drugs, it cannot be "won" (which is why SHM's stupid comment about how we win might be true, because that's just as impossible as winning these wars).

[thefarmer]

The only way to tell an American from a Muslim terrorist is with a good ID system.



Since ALL Muslims are terrorists, and no REAL American is a Muslim, then Real ID's work!

[CrystalTears]

Is there no happy medium in here between ClydeRHuckabee and the doomsayers that we're giving up our freedom? Sheesh.

[Clove]

I have a real ID, it's called my driver's license.

Instead of trying to create this network of checks, use the systems in place and link those.

If you want a real ID, force each state to contribute their ID databases to a central network and require some uniformity in state issued IDs.

After that is done, put pressure on the states to ensure that someone can't waltz in to the DMV with bogus papers and steal someone's identity.

There's no damn need to require me to get another form of ID before I can board a domestic flight. There's certainly no need for me to get another form of ID before I'm "allowed" to enter a building that is paid for by my taxes.

Essentially they want a domestic passport, and I'm sorry, there's absolutely no need for it.

That's what Real ID's are attempting to do. It isn't a separate Federal ID or domestic passport, it's an ID standard. Basically your state would have to adhere to these standards in order for their driver's licenses to qualify as RealID's (and it is intended that people will use their driver's licenses). Included in that standard are improved thresholds of substantiation and integration of state databases so they can be cross-referenced. The biggest criticism from the states is that they don't want the expense of upgrading their ID process (you should see what flies as a vehicle registration in Wisconsin).

The other biggest criticism is "OMG!!111!!! the Federal gov't R evil and want to take my pr1vacy AWAY!!11! ACLU halp!!1!"

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

RNI - Retarded newbie infusion.. happens every couple months.


How on earth do you think the war will "end". It's like the war on drugs, it cannot be "won" (which is why SHM's stupid comment about how we win might be true, because that's just as impossible as winning these wars).

I'm just a live and let live kind of guy, is all. Putting up walls to lock out the rest of the world solves nothing, even if it was effective (which it's not). If that's a stupid comment to you, okie dokie.

Now enforcing strict policies on employing immigrants is a good idea to me. What this does is lets us remain a melting pot, helps immigrants get health care and aid, and doesn't put the burden on only tax paying citizens.

[Parkbandit]

I think ClydeR is a sock puppet, because he has only posted in the Politics folder, because I just can't get someone trolling here from somewhere else. Soriel on the other hand, started awesome threads like "I'm rolling Batman!", so I'm reserving judgment for now.


Yea.. shows he sucks at a medieval roleplaying game.. and that he sucks at politics. Are you reserving judgment to think maybe he's just plain retarded?

[Parkbandit]

"We" are all illegal immigrants, unless you are a Native American. I think we win by allowing cultures and races to co-exist in america.

You are kidding me, right?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

You are kidding me, right?

No, not really. I'm ok with open borders. I'm not ok with freeloaders, but as one of the richest, most powerful and frankly best places to live in the world, we should expect people to want to come here.

[Celephais]

I'm just a live and let live kind of guy, is all. Putting up walls to lock out the rest of the world solves nothing, even if it was effective (which it's not). If that's a stupid comment to you, okie dokie.
I'm saying that realisticly all cultures and races are not going to peacefully co-exist, it's just not going to happen, I would love for that to happen, but sadly it won't... so saying we win when that happens is the same as saying we can win the war on terror, the war on drugs, the war on soaked cuffs after it rains, war on chuck norris.

You just can't win.

[BigWorm]

Yea.. shows he sucks at a medieval roleplaying game.. and that he sucks at politics. Are you reserving judgment to think maybe he's just plain retarded?

I try to divorce my feelings about someone's politics from their knowledge of Gemstone, but I said that in tongue in cheek manner. For example, I think you're politics are fucked, but I respect your knowledge of Gemstone.

I'm hoping at least one of these crazy newbies will turn out to be someone posting sarcasticly. I had high hopes for the Batman thread because it kind of reminded me of something Stanley would post, and he is one of my favorite posters around here because he's fucking hilarious.

[Hulkein]

We are at war! If you support the Global War on Terrorism, then you have to support Real ID. This is not the time for whining about how burdensome it is to need a plastic card to enter a secure building. Any security measures put in place during GWOT can always be relaxed after the war is over.

The only way to tell an American from a Muslim terrorist is with a good ID system. Without a good ID system, we will have people impersonating someone they are not. And that will lead to terrorism. With a good ID system, we can keep terrorists out of this country in the first place, allowing us to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.

You are so stupid.

[Latrinsorm]

It works for a very short time and the same people who counterfeited your old IDs do it with the new ones.Why do people think this?

[BigWorm]

Fake IDs are a red herring here. All of the 9/11 hijackers had valid IDs obtained legally. You know who else did? Timothy McVeigh and other homegrown terrorists. Issuing a national ID card program will not make people safer.

[Gan]

No, but I have something against the government spending tax dollars on something that A.) Will violate my privacy as it'll transfer my SS ID and other very personal information between government departments and NGO's(hey if they can lose a computer with nuclear secrets...I'm worried).
It would scare you to know how many unsecured places your SSID is already in. This is a drop in the bucket reality wise.


B.) Ultimately won't work, because eventually people will find a way to bypass it. In fact, it'll just enrich those trying to exploit migrant workers by shipping them like sardines in freight trains and trucks.
Welcome to human enginuity, and welcome to every law thats passed prohibiting any form of illicit behavior and how that law has to adapt to new methods of circumvention.


C.) I want MORE OF MY MONEY. And not spend it on crap. I live out here in Nevada, and frankly I really don't give a two cents if a terrorist blows something up in Washington or New York. Over 7000 kids go out on their first Prom and never come back (I.E. Die in car accidents) EACH YEAR. GET OVER IT Already!
Thanks for confirming that you're a grade A fucking IDIOT. That was probably the most retarded thing said since Ilvane's posts in the Clinton thread. So much for more than a few days respite. :/


OR OR!! Wait for it!.... We could spend that 16 billion dollars on building a great wall of southern Cali/Nevada/New Mexico with machine gun turrets. Or better yet use it to fix our credit crisis which is like 1000 times more important currently, especially to stave off a recession.
There's no way that that money would fix the credit crisis, unless you think that bailing out irresponsible leanders and borrowers is the 'right' thing to do. And a wall on our Mexico border wont do any good. We just need to buy Mexico outright.


Making "Better" ID's is like the situation with counterfiters and the treasury dept or rich tax payers and the IRS. They change the rules/product a bit and theres people who are better trained/more determined then the federal gov (EPSECIALLY the fed gov.) who'll out smart it everytime.

Then the fed makes even "better" ID's, then THAT gets broken.Then the fed makes even "better" ID's, then THAT gets broken.Then the fed makes even "better" ID's, then THAT gets broken.Then the fed makes even "better" ID's, then THAT gets broken. Loop infinty.
Again, human enginuity demands that this system evolve to the efforts presented to circumvent it. Thinking that this process is stupid for just the one instance and ok for every other law on the books in America is pretty blind, and quite stupid.


I have a real ID, it's called my driver's license.

Instead of trying to create this network of checks, use the systems in place and link those.

If you want a real ID, force each state to contribute their ID databases to a central network and require some uniformity in state issued IDs.

After that is done, put pressure on the states to ensure that someone can't waltz in to the DMV with bogus papers and steal someone's identity.

There's no damn need to require me to get another form of ID before I can board a domestic flight. There's certainly no need for me to get another form of ID before I'm "allowed" to enter a building that is paid for by my taxes.

Essentially they want a domestic passport, and I'm sorry, there's absolutely no need for it.
I agree with linking the databases, and as Clove suggests below, consider this an enhancement as well as an attempt at uniformity - which is a GOOD thing considering how many variations of state driver's liscenses are out there. Being in a business where I have to take ID's for the transactions I do, it would be nice to see uniformity and better technology in verification and validation.


That's what Real ID's are attempting to do. It isn't a separate Federal ID or domestic passport, it's an ID standard. Basically your state would have to adhere to these standards in order for their driver's licenses to qualify as RealID's (and it is intended that people will use their driver's licenses). Included in that standard are improved thresholds of substantiation and integration of state databases so they can be cross-referenced. The biggest criticism from the states is that they don't want the expense of upgrading their ID process (you should see what flies as a vehicle registration in Wisconsin).

The other biggest criticism is "OMG!!111!!! the Federal gov't R evil and want to take my pr1vacy AWAY!!11! ACLU halp!!1!"
Good Post.

[Clove]

There's no way that that money would fix the credit crisis, unless you think that bailing out irresponsible leanders and borrowers is the 'right' thing to do. And a wall on our Mexico border wont do any good. We just need to buy Mexico outright.

Draft illegals.

[ClydeR]

I live out here in Nevada, and frankly I really don't give a two cents if a terrorist blows something up in Washington or New York.

I view Soriel's statement as a figurative expression of his frustration that the federal government has done little to nothing to secure our borders. Residents of the border states have a right to feel neglected. The government puts up signs like the one in my avatar (which is an actual photo of an actual road sign warning motorists not to run over illegal immigrants rushing across the road, much like signs warning of deer in some parts of the nation) when what it should be doing is sealing the border.

The southern border has been President Bush's only failing.

[Parkbandit]

No, not really. I'm ok with open borders. I'm not ok with freeloaders, but as one of the richest, most powerful and frankly best places to live in the world, we should expect people to want to come here.


And as a law abiding country.. we should also expect people to follow our laws.

I just don't think you have thought this out. No where else in the world is there any immigration policy of "Come on in.. do what you want" Let's say we just say fuck it.. and open our borders. No limits. How soon do you believe we could actually afford to do something like that? What happens when our unemployment is hovering around 20%

It's a nice idea that you believe we should just open our borders to anyone who wants to come in.. but I don't think you've thought through the economic or social problems.

[CrystalTears]

I view Soriel's statement as a figurative expression of his frustration that the federal government has done little to nothing to secure our borders.
No I'm pretty sure it's a selfish statement of gargantual proportions of how everything that doesn't affect him is meaningless.


The southern border has been President Bush's only failing.
:rofl:

You officially scare me.

[Stanley Burrell]

We are at war! If you support the Global War on Terrorism, then you have to support Real ID. This is not the time for whining about how burdensome it is to need a plastic card to enter a secure building. Any security measures put in place during GWOT can always be relaxed after the war is over.

The only way to tell an American from a Muslim terrorist is with a good ID system. Without a good ID system, we will have people impersonating someone they are not. And that will lead to terrorism. With a good ID system, we can keep terrorists out of this country in the first place, allowing us to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.


You are so stupid.

FOO'! What you is talking about?! There's a war going on out there. The war ON THIRST! You know, kinda like those "Sprunk" commercials on San Andreas talk radio.

And if you have too much free time:


Man: There’s a war going on in the streets

(sound of police sirens)

Man: It’s the war on thirst!

(sound of explosion)

Man: Sprunk is winning the war on thirst with the new grenade-shaped can.

Man 2: Eh yo, pull the pin and blow your thirst right off in that brand-new
taste explosion!

(sound of larger explosion)

Man: Now that’s the sound of freshness! Sprunk! Go AWOL from the cola wars
with an energizing mix of lemon, lime, and ten times the caffeine and sugar.

Man 2: Plus mercury and benzene for that extra pop!

Man: Yo, it’ll bring you temperature right up! And the bubbles! Other
beverages use carbon dioxide. Pssh! We use ether to kick up that fizz!
Thanks to all that mercury, you won’t remember -anything- that tasted so good.

Now pick up a Sprunk thermonuclear six-pack, kill thirst and liven up the
party! Toss your friends a Sprunk in the grenade-shaped can and enter the
Sprunk sweepstakes, where you can win a real case of grenades! Sprunk! Blow your thirst right off in that brand-new taste explosion!

(sound of explosion)



http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/938/thirstrz4.jpg

We at war, yo.

[Parkbandit]

Fake IDs are a red herring here. All of the 9/11 hijackers had valid IDs obtained legally. You know who else did? Timothy McVeigh and other homegrown terrorists. Issuing a national ID card program will not make people safer.

Real ID will make it more difficult to obtain a fake ID. I'm not sure why people are against that.

And the argument of "OMG! THEY R HAVING MY INFORMATION!" makes me chuckle.. like they don't already have it somehow.

[BigWorm]

You're missing the point. Preventing the hijacks from getting fake IDs would not have done anything to stop the attacks because they used REAL, government-issued IDs.

[Clove]

You're missing the point. Preventing the hijacks from getting fake IDs would not have done anything to stop the attacks because they used REAL, government-issued IDs.

I think you're missing the point. That they used government issued ID's is EXACTLY WHY THEY WANT TO CREATE A MORE STRICT UNIFORM STANDARD!

[Parkbandit]

You're missing the point. Preventing the hijacks from getting fake IDs would not have done anything to stop the attacks because they used REAL, government-issued IDs.


And you are missing the point. Getting a Real ID is going to be more involved than getting a state issued ID... and the burden of proof of identity will be greater... thus stopping people from using fake information to obtain a REAL, government-issued ID.

[Stanley Burrell]

Hmm. Well, they could always upgrade airport security from "Strangled-drunk-woman-not-under-surveillance-after-outburst" to "Airport Security." There's a cocksucking idea, fucking ignoramuses.

[Gan]

The problem is that you have to depend on every individual state not to be lax or ineffective in maintaining valid identity checks when issuing an ID or a license. That problem compounds with the accepted practice of every state ID being valid in all 50 states. Hence, its a national problem, not just a state problem. Thereby requiring national attention and effort in order to regulate the practice of issuing ID's as well as requiring some uniformity in how those ID's are created and with what information is put on them, and to the accuracy that the information belongs to the person applying for said ID.

Personally I think the idea that we have to have a seperate card for social security (with no photo associated) along with your driver's license in order to perform certain functions within our society is stupid. The social security card system is archaic and needs to be scrapped and included with a national ID that includes state information along with biometric security features linking the ID to the correct/appropriate ID applicant/holder.

Will the prevention of counterfeit ID's be a cluster fuck? Not if the government uses proprietary material/technology as they do with printing currency. And the efforts to police that should be the same as currency counterfeiting.

Will it still happen? Probably, just not on the same frequency as the counterfeiting of various state IDs that already happen.

[Gan]

Hmm. Well, they could always upgrade airport security from "Strangled-drunk-woman-not-under-surveillance-after-outburst" to "Airport Security." There's a cocksucking idea, fucking ignoramuses.

Airport Security while under federal management was pretty solid. Then the budget/money factor kicked in and it was outsourced to private security firms, therein lies your problems. You get what you pay for sometimes.

[Hulkein]

Fake IDs are a red herring here. All of the 9/11 hijackers had valid IDs obtained legally. You know who else did? Timothy McVeigh and other homegrown terrorists. Issuing a national ID card program will not make people safer.

Exactly.

[Sean of the Thread]

My fake id was legit... all 5 times I had one made when I lost it.

Only paid $20 bucks for the crack heads SSN card and birth certificate too. People at the DMV ain't to bright. No offense CT.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

And as a law abiding country.. we should also expect people to follow our laws.

I just don't think you have thought this out. No where else in the world is there any immigration policy of "Come on in.. do what you want" Let's say we just say fuck it.. and open our borders. No limits. How soon do you believe we could actually afford to do something like that? What happens when our unemployment is hovering around 20%

It's a nice idea that you believe we should just open our borders to anyone who wants to come in.. but I don't think you've thought through the economic or social problems.

I expect immigrants to follow our laws, I agree. I also expect them to pay taxes, meet some working standards in our country or be expelled from it. More people means more jobs, someone has got to make my hamburger and mocha latte. Someone has got to mow my yard, paint the house, etc.

I know it's not easy to just "open the borders", and I'm not proposing that. I am in favor of everyone who wants in, being given the opportunity to do so though.

I mean goddamn, if being a prosperous nation means we cannot help others through our prosperity, what the fuck are doing here? Sure, put some rules and regulations and process behind coming to America, but it should be an options other than some smuggler who may or may not kill you.

[Parkbandit]

I expect immigrants to follow our laws, I agree. I also expect them to pay taxes, meet some working standards in our country or be expelled from it. More people means more jobs, someone has got to make my hamburger and mocha latte. Someone has got to mow my yard, paint the house, etc.

I know it's not easy to just "open the borders", and I'm not proposing that. I am in favor of everyone who wants in, being given the opportunity to do so though.

I mean goddamn, if being a prosperous nation means we cannot help others through our prosperity, what the fuck are doing here? Sure, put some rules and regulations and process behind coming to America, but it should be an options other than some smuggler who may or may not kill you.

One nation shouldn't be responsible for the world's population. And they aren't immigrants if they come here illegally, they are aliens.

And more people doesn't mean more people are working. We're currently at 5% unemployment nationwide.. open up our gates like you propose and we're looking at MUCH higher unemployment... we can't absorb everyone... nor should we.

[Stanley Burrell]

Airport Security while under federal management was pretty solid. Then the budget/money factor kicked in and it was outsourced to private security firms, therein lies your problems. You get what you pay for sometimes.

...Because overhauling the entire Social Security program isn't somehow going to be costly?

What about federal regulations applying to airports? It's not much of a half-step to explain someone getting the boot because they want to get to happy hour earlier on the account of swift bag-checking.

These things are clockwork, and yet, they aren't.

[CrystalTears]

Only paid $20 bucks for the crack heads SSN card and birth certificate too. People at the DMV ain't to bright. No offense CT.
Why would I get offended? I don't work at DMV. I work with them and I totally agree with you. The spawn of Satan work at DMV. They do as they please because without them, you can't drive or get state ID, and they know it. Fuckers.

[Gelston]

One nation shouldn't be responsible for the world's population. And they aren't immigrants if they come here illegally, they are aliens.

And more people doesn't mean more people are working. We're currently at 5% unemployment nationwide.. open up our gates like you propose and we're looking at MUCH higher unemployment... we can't absorb everyone... nor should we.

An alien who has temporary or permanent residence in a country (which is foreign to him/her) may be called a resident alien of that country.

A visitor with the legal right to visit a country (which is foreign to him/her) may be called a nonresident alien of that country.

The term illegal alien commonly refers to a foreign national who resides in another country unlawfully, either by entering that country at a place other than a designated port-of-entry or as result of the expiration of a non-immigrant visa.

Aliens aren't just a term for illegals, but they are also called immigrants. I'm sure you've heard the term illegal immigrant before...

But to stay on topic, Real ID is a good idea, if not to just standardize state IDs.

[Parkbandit]

Actually, no I haven't heard of "Illegal Immigrant". What is the difference between that and Illegal Alien? Would you prefer me to use the Undocumented Worker bullshit label next?

Thanks for the civics lesson though.. really, it was very uninformative... since it was mostly wrong and/or off topic of what we were discussing.

[Latrinsorm]

One nation shouldn't be responsible for the world's population.Terrifying.

[Parkbandit]

Terrifying.


Stupid Stanleyville.

[Seran]

The one reason why I support this plan is that if it is universally adopted as 'the' ID for the 50 states and replaces state issued drivers licenses it'll crack down on illegals obtaining licenses in liberal states.

Furthermore, if you're going to overhaul the mortgage system, start by making it a requirement that a valid (Real ID) card be presented as proof of identity.

[Gelston]

Actually, no I haven't heard of "Illegal Immigrant". What is the difference between that and Illegal Alien? Would you prefer me to use the Undocumented Worker bullshit label next?

Thanks for the civics lesson though.. really, it was very uninformative... since it was mostly wrong and/or off topic of what we were discussing.

Actually, nothing there was wrong, though THAT part was off topic. And I don't care what they are called quite frankly. From Wetbacks to Friends from the South.

Oh.. And Go Real ID! Greatest idea ever.

[Bhuryn]

Papers! let me see your papers now!

Reminds me of some less then desirable places to call home during less then desirable moments in time.

Please though, a plastic card won't do shit to stop illegal immigration, deannex the nanny state and you might see some people move back to Mexico.

[Gelston]

Because countries that have nationalized ID cards are exactly like Nazi Germany.

[Bhuryn]

Next step national DNA database, follow by a printed number and barcode on each new birth cretificate.

They need a tongue firmly planted in cheek smiley.

[Klayman]

No, but I have something against the government spending tax dollars on something that A.) Will violate my privacy as it'll transfer my SS ID and other very personal information between government departments and NGO's(hey if they can lose a computer with nuclear secrets...I'm worried).

B.) Ultimately won't work, because eventually people will find a way to bypass it. In fact, it'll just enrich those trying to exploit migrant workers by shipping them like sardines in freight trains and trucks.

C.) I want MORE OF MY MONEY. And not spend it on crap. I live out here in Nevada, and frankly I really don't give a two cents if a terrorist blows something up in Washington or New York. Over 7000 kids go out on their first Prom and never come back (I.E. Die in car accidents) EACH YEAR. GET OVER IT Already!

You're one of those idiot liberals, aren't you? Terrorism is O-tay as long as it isn't in my backyard.

[BigWorm]

You're one of those idiot liberals, aren't you? Terrorism is O-tay as long as it isn't in my backyard.
You're one of those idiot neocons, aren't you? War is O-tay as long as it isn't in my backyard.

There, fixed that for you.

[Gelston]

Next step national DNA database, follow by a printed number and barcode on each new birth cretificate.

They need a tongue firmly planted in cheek smiley.

They are working on a National DNA database for criminals. Which is a good idea and a great way to catch those repeat offenders. Honestly, are you one of those anti-Federal Government Appalachian Militia types?

[Gelston]

You're one of those idiot neocons, aren't you? War is O-tay as long as it isn't in my backyard.

There, fixed that for you.

Actually, it is fine as long as its not in my backyard. I would much rather go fight it elsewhere, because some things DO require action instead of whines and complaints.

[Bhuryn]

They are working on a National DNA database for criminals. Which is a good idea and a great way to catch those repeat offenders. Honestly, are you one of those anti-Federal Government Appalachian Militia types?

Nah, I just take alittle pride in my freedom, privacy and the ability to live my own life. Apparently you're all right with whatever nannystate commands you to do. Let me guess, you wallpapered your 4 x 8 military apartment with the "best of the Patriot Act".

[Tsa`ah]

Next step national DNA database, follow by a printed number and barcode on each new birth cretificate.

They need a tongue firmly planted in cheek smiley.

As mentioned, a DNA database is in the works for criminals, just like a fingerprint database, a dental database ... etc.

I'm a moderate with both liberal and conservative views. I'm not opposed to a national ID so long as it's not an ID separate from my state ID and so long as it doesn't turn into a form of "legal interstate travel papers" ... and so long as it's done in a way that doesn't create an entirely new system that will cost us billions in tax dollars. We have systems, tie them together and standardize ... and the most important, so long as it doesn't create additional and bigger hurdles for actual citizens and isn't part of a system attempting to disqualify real voters.

And a printed barcode and number on a birth certificate should have been adopted the moment UPC codes became the standard. Forged birth certificates continue to be the Achilles heel of the system ... let's not even get into the Cabbage Patch fiasco of the early 80s and how many of those things are probably still being used today.

[Tsa`ah]

You're one of those idiot liberals, aren't you? Terrorism is O-tay as long as it isn't in my backyard.

Wow ... we're batting .1000 with the new members lately.

Do us a favor and stick to the GS related topics.

[Klayman]

Actually, it is fine as long as its not in my backyard. I would much rather go fight it elsewhere, because some things DO require action instead of whines and complaints.

Amen.

[Klayman]

Wow ... we're batting .1000 with the new members lately.

Do us a favor and stick to the GS related topics.

Dick, it's batting a 1.000, as in 100%.

Anyway, war is a necessary evil. If you don't believe that, go watch the Nick Berg beheading video sometime and remember that these are the kind of people we're fighting.

And I'll post wherever I feel like it.

[Gelston]

Nah, I just take alittle pride in my freedom, privacy and the ability to live my own life. Apparently you're all right with whatever nannystate commands you to do. Let me guess, you wallpapered your 4 x 8 military apartment with the "best of the Patriot Act".

I actually live in something a lot bigger then 4x8, but now, I'm not alright with whatever the Government tells me. I'm just happy with the Government making it as hard as possible on criminals and terrorist. Nothing from the patriot act has made my life any different then it was before it existed.

[Gan]

Nah, I just take alittle pride in my freedom, privacy and the ability to live my own life. Apparently you're all right with whatever nannystate commands you to do. Let me guess, you wallpapered your 4 x 8 military apartment with the "best of the Patriot Act".

I'm a huge advocate against the nanny state and hate government telling me what to do and how to do it. However, I cant see where a national ID card will infringe upon my rights as a US citizen, ability to travel freely between states, and its use as a valid and verifiable proof of my identification if I'm ever challenged by local, state, or federal employees.

[Clove]

I'm a huge advocate against the nanny state and hate government telling me what to do and how to do it. However, I cant see where a national ID card will infringe upon my rights as a US citizen, ability to travel freely between states, and its use as a valid and verifiable proof of my identification if I'm ever challenged by local, state, or federal employees.

Ditto. I like having reliable ID.

[Daniel]

Yea. So I don't have to worry about hicks in Missouri not beleiving that a black man has a military ID card and not selling me alcohol.

Assholes. HOW ELSE AM I GOING TO GET DRUNK>???!

[Gelston]

Yea. So I don't have to worry about hicks in Missouri not beleiving that a black man has a military ID card and not selling me alcohol.

Assholes. HOW ELSE AM I GOING TO GET DRUNK>???!

Everyone knows black people don't join the military, only Whites and Hispanics do.

[Atlanteax]

Everyone knows black people don't join the military, only Whites and Hispanics do.

Yea, we only use blacks as armor protection for our tanks, jeeps, and aircraft. So if there are reports of military hardware being lost, and we got black people (that are supposedly in the military) walking around... they obviously went AWOL from duty and should be arrested and sent back to the theatre of operations.

[Tsa`ah]

Dick, it's batting a 1.000, as in 100%.

Anyway, war is a necessary evil. If you don't believe that, go watch the Nick Berg beheading video sometime and remember that these are the kind of people we're fighting.

And I'll post wherever I feel like it.

Umm no ... we're batting .1000, 1 in 10 new members are certified morons.

[Daniel]

Nm. Rofl.

[Klayman]

Wow ... we're batting .1000 with the new members lately.

Do us a favor and stick to the GS related topics.

Your post implies "we're batting a thousand" (one-thousand is implied because of the number of zeros you included). Only three decimal places are required when using "batting" terms.


Umm no ... we're batting .1000, 1 in 10 new members are certified morons.

1 in 10 is not "batting .1000" or even "batting .100"; it's "batting 100".

Now 1 in 10,000 is "batting .100"

I insist that you at least LEARN the baseball terms if you're going to use them to insult my intelligence.

Now who's the certified moron?

Why am I even wasting my time responding, you'll just keep arguing, making yourself look even more pathetic. Please, respond and prove me right.

[Tsa`ah]

You count the zeros?

.10 or .100000000000 or.10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000

It is still 10% or 1 in 10, but thanks again for proving the statistic.

[Gan]

11 posts and already laying the smackdown.

Nice!

:lol:

Send a U2U to ParkBandit for your skirt and pin. Supposedly ours are already in mail.

*

1:10 = .1
1:100 = .01
1:1000 = .001
1:10000 = .0001
1:100000 = .00001

[Clove]

You count the zeros?

.10 or .100000000000 or.10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000

It is still 10% or 1 in 10, but thanks again for proving the statistic.

Actually "batting a thousand" would be 1.000. Thanks for playing.

[Sean]

Except Tsa`ah never said we're "batting a thousand" the new guy just inferred that and then incorrectly started counting zero's.

[Clove]

Except Tsa`ah never said we're "batting a thousand" the new guy just inferred that and then incorrectly started counting zero's.

Don't encourage him.

[Gan]

Except Tsa`ah never said we're "batting a thousand" the new guy just inferred that and then incorrectly started counting zero's.

Point. He used the phrase 'batting a .1000. Which, is usually heard in conversations as 'batting a thousand'. If you look at it that way, he screwed it up worse, which is pretty funny too.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Gan
Point. He used the phrase 'batting a .1000. Which, is usually heard in conversations as 'batting a thousand'. If you look at it that way, he screwed it up worse, which is pretty funny too.

Just because you're taking it that way doesn't mean that was his intent, especially since he clarified that he meant 1:10 which regardless it's all irrelevant.

Real ID's? New Jersey recently just went through a license upgrade (2000? 2001?) which requires 7pts of proof of identification. They broke it down into different classes of ID (passport vs billing address etc.) and added weight to the documents so you couldn't get all 7 pts with bills. They also upgraded the license template. I can't see the state jumping up and down to change it all over again and make the new upgrades useless and pay to have it done especially since I believe this year is the year where all the licenses will have turned over from the old laminated paper style to the new hard plastic with black light signatures.

[Clove]

Some states already meet the substantiation requirements for their ID's; NJ's enhancements may already be 'nuff. All they'd need to do is standardize their dbase and open them up for cross referencing with other states.

Dude, don't encourage him. He was using a baseball reference; pointlessly and incorrectly. If he wanted to say 1 in 10 he could have just fucking said "one in ten".

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Dude, don't encourage him. He was using a baseball reference; pointlessly and incorrectly. If he wanted to say 1 in 10 he could have just fucking said "one in ten".>>

I kind of agree.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Clove
Dude, don't encourage him. He was using a baseball reference; pointlessly and incorrectly. If he wanted to say 1 in 10 he could have just fucking said "one in ten".

He lives out in the midwest who knows what kind of crazy babble they use.

[Daniel]

At least we dont' say Soda..like a retard.

[Sean]

You know who says pop? The portions of the country that havn't advanced since 1948.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<At least we dont' say Soda..like a retard.>>

God forbid you call it by its name...

[Daniel]

Yea. Exactly: Pop.

[Savageheart]

Soda and Pop are both fine, having lived on the East coast and west coast I got used to using both.

Living in the south on the other hand, the land where every fountain drink is a coke, and don't let them fool you sweet tea was designed to kill yankees.

[Sean]

So were biscuits and 'gravy'

[Clove]

Just don't eat a raw chitlin.

[Lyonis]

I'm saying that realisticly all cultures and races are not going to peacefully co-exist, it's just not going to happen, I would love for that to happen, but sadly it won't... so saying we win when that happens is the same as saying we can win the war on terror, the war on drugs, the war on soaked cuffs after it rains, war on chuck norris.

You just can't win.

I just read through this thread right now and I wanted to comment on this, so sorry if I’m bumping something super late in the conversation.

It’s not that cultures can’t coexist peacefully, it’s that people can’t coexist peacefully. You could have a society where everyone has the same religion, same ethnicity, same basic core values, they’ll find someway to divide themselves. I couldn’t tell the difference between a Brit and an Irishman to save my life, but they used to kill each other for it. I’d be fucked if my life depended on being able to tell apart any of the various East Asian cultures in a pinch, and they’ve had quite a few violent conflicts amongst each other over the years. Civil wars are a beautiful example of this as well.

While it can be argued that differences amongst those fighting certainly existed, it would be a far more convincing argument that their similarities far outweighed those differences. It’s not the differences in culture that make us fight, it’s just the way people are. Perhaps it’s just the hippie in me but I think most people if given the opportunity will take that whole liberty and pursuit of happiness thing, which is also the best way to keep people from wanting to kill each other.

I agree with SHM, the melting pot is a good idea.

~Lover of fine hole in the wall ethnic restaurants

[Lyonis]

It's a nice idea that you believe we should just open our borders to anyone who wants to come in.. but I don't think you've thought through the economic or social problems.

I don’t think they should be open in the sense that anyone and everyone should be allowed in whenever they want to. I do think we should make an honest assessment, from an economic point of view, and say that we need a certain amount of new workers coming in and act accordingly. You do need to have some sort of security to make that a reality though, which is why I don’t have a problem with either the proposed ID system or something that links the states.


Is there no happy medium in here between ClydeRHuckabee and the doomsayers that we're giving up our freedom?

4 reelz

[Soriel]

I just read through this thread right now and I wanted to comment on this, so sorry if I’m bumping something super late in the conversation.

It’s not that cultures can’t coexist peacefully, it’s that people can’t coexist peacefully. You could have a society where everyone has the same religion, same ethnicity, same basic core values, they’ll find someway to divide themselves. I couldn’t tell the difference between a Brit and an Irishman to save my life, but they used to kill each other for it. I’d be fucked if my life depended on being able to tell apart any of the various East Asian cultures in a pinch, and they’ve had quite a few violent conflicts amongst each other over the years. Civil wars are a beautiful example of this as well.

While it can be argued that differences amongst those fighting certainly existed, it would be a far more convincing argument that their similarities far outweighed those differences. It’s not the differences in culture that make us fight, it’s just the way people are. Perhaps it’s just the hippie in me but I think most people if given the opportunity will take that whole liberty and pursuit of happiness thing.

I agree with SHM, the melting pot is a good idea.

~Lover of fine hole in the wall ethnic restaurants

This isn't so complex...

A.) People have a need to survive and reproduce.

B.) People realize their chances to survive is greater when working in groups.

C.) People find other people near them, during prehistoric times this was people around them who happened to look black, hispanic, or white etc.

D.) People start to spend time with these similar people and start their own culture.

E.) People develop in population,culture, and langugage and become a nation.

F.) Nation A attacks Nation B because they can better survive with more resources.

G.) Weaker nation merges with stronger victorious nation because it's better for their survival.

H.) Repeat and rinse.

Theres a reason why when you look at friends or social gatherings, most of the time they are from a similar race or religion etc. People believe this is best for their survival because it's been programmed in since the beginning.

[Bhuryn]

I'm a huge advocate against the nanny state and hate government telling me what to do and how to do it. However, I cant see where a national ID card will infringe upon my rights as a US citizen, ability to travel freely between states, and its use as a valid and verifiable proof of my identification if I'm ever challenged by local, state, or federal employees.

It's not so much what the RealID gives them now, but more where will they take it next. As paranoid as the federal government is proving to be...

It's sorta like me building a huge laser in my backyard. The laser itself, probably alright, add some alcohol and a few hours of UFC on Spike and I might start vaporizing my neighbors.


Nothing from the patriot act has made my life any different then it was before it existed.

All I can say has been said before: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

[Lyonis]

Theres a reason why when you look at friends or social gatherings, most of the time they are from a similar race or religion etc. People believe this is best for their survival because it's been programmed in since the beginning.


Not neccessarily true. I find that I have much more in common with the people around the neighborhood who eat Tito's Tacos and Johnny's Pastrami, grew up with a skateboard at Venice Beach, and love the Lakers, regardless of their ethnicity, than I would someone who looks exactly like me living in Europe.

I guess it's all what is important to you, skin color just isn't for me. I'd like to think your claim of most people isn't true but there is certainly evidence supporting it which makes me a sad panda.

[Bobmuhthol]

The reason why most of my friends are from a similar race is because I live in a diversity-free area, and I love it.

[Asha]

:lol: The stark honesty

[Daniel]

It's pretty sad.

[ClydeR]

Soda and Pop are both fine, having lived on the East coast and west coast I got used to using both.

Living in the south on the other hand, the land where every fountain drink is a coke, and don't let them fool you sweet tea was designed to kill yankees.

I just call it all Coke (http://popvssoda.com:2998/), even when it's Pepsi.

Ah, sweet tea. There's nothing like a big glass of sweet tea with a plate of fried catfish and hushpuppies, preferably eaten in an old restaurant with a wobbly table and with lots of antiques hung on the wall.

If you go up north, don't bother ordering tea. They'll bring you something expensive with no ice that's still warm and doesn't taste like tea at all. I learned that lesson the hard way.

[Soriel]

Theres a difference in mentality between west coasters and east coasters. Generally, I found west coasters to be a little more laid back and (more) accepting of different people then east coasters. Of course, there is always an exception.

[Sean]

Eh I think the divide gets better generation by generation.

[Clove]

I really don't think you can regionalize East Coast so easily. In my experience there's a great difference between Northeast, Southeast and Florida.

The West Coast may be more homogeneous.

[Clove]

...Ah, sweet tea. There's nothing like a big glass of sweet tea with a plate of fried catfish and hushpuppies, preferably eaten in an old restaurant with a wobbly table and with lots of antiques hung on the wall...


Except maybe a hot lobster roll and a plate of clam fritters with some chowder to dip them in and a tall cold beer. In an old restaurant with wobbly tables and antiques on the wall... (we got those too) :D

[Soriel]

Except maybe a hot lobster roll and a plate of clam fritters with some chowder to dip them in and a tall cold beer. In an old restaurant with wobbly tables and antiques on the wall... (we got those too) :D


You know your ferret doesn't really love you and just uses you for your food.

[Clove]

You know your ferret doesn't really love you and just uses you for your food.

They don't... but they keep my house free of mice and entertain me immensely.

But hey, we have lobster to spare for you southerners, come on up :D