A vote for Hillary is a vote for Bill?

[Gan]

This is kind of scary. I just had a conversation with a lady in our office who said the only reason she's voting for Hillary is because she wants to see Bill back in the White House.

And now I read this news story that said this idea seems to be prevalent with many Hillary voters...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/10/us/politics/11cnd-poll.html?ei=5065&en=eb1d46cd20e61f5b&ex=1197954000&adxnnl=1&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1197390113-2ZqwoiJS6yusiUqRq785mg



The poll found that former President Bill Clinton could be an effective campaign weapon for his wife. Forty-four percent of Democrats said Mr. Clinton’s involvement would make them more likely to support Mrs. Clinton.




In fact, nearly as many of Mrs. Clinton’s backers say they are supporting her because of her husband as say they are supporting her because of her own experience.

:wtf:


And in a recent TV interview, Bill said he would only attend cabinet meetings that Hillary invited him to sit on. Then later on he said that if the constitution allowed, he would have run for a 3rd term.


Spooky stuff.

[Ilvane]

I'll tell you as a person who will vote for Hillary, it's not because of Bill, it's because she's Hillary, and I like what she has to say, what she has done, and her intelligence.

It has nothing to do with Bill. I voted for him too, but he is much different than she is, both personality wise, and in some of his views on how to do things.

Angela

[landy]

For all the wrong reasons people actually do vote for candidates, choosing to vote for someone because they have a tested and proven person supporting them behind the scenes seems like one of the least wrong. Sometimes you just need to pick the lesser of the evils.

[TheEschaton]

I'm not saying Bill is why I'm voting for Hillary, but I don't think having the First Spouse being the smartest/best President of the past 50 years is a bad thing.

-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

I promise I won't say "I told you so" when Zombie Ike chokes you out, Eschaton. :(

[Parkbandit]

I'm not saying Bill is why I'm voting for Hillary, but I don't think having the First Spouse being the smartest/best President of the past 50 years is a bad thing.

-TheE-

LOL... you really need to step out of your fantasy world once in a while man.

Good for a laugh though.. thanks.

[Warriorbird]

If it really was a vote for Bill I'd feel a lot more comfortable with the idea of voting for Hillary.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'll tell you as a person who will vote for Hillary, it's not because of Bill, it's because I'm dumb


fixed

[Gan]

Wow.

Like rats to cheese.

Comedy Gold.

[Hulkein]

Bill Clinton was the best president over the last 50 years?

[Parkbandit]

Bill Clinton was the best president over the last 50 years?

I think he just left out the word impeached. Give him a break.

Because I agree with him.. Clinton was the best President to get impeached over the last 50 years.

[Hulkein]

That makes more sense. Thanks PB. Hey, I guess they're right. Senior citizens, although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose.

[TheEschaton]

Who is better in the past 50 years? If you say Reagan, I laugh in your face. Reagan was an ass. The only one remotely as smart as Clinton was Nixon, and he was an evil fuck. Maybe Bush Sr....maaaaybe. JFK was a good president, but had his administration cut short by a bullet.

Definitely the past 30 years, probably the last 50.

-TheE-

[Daniel]

I guess the question is, if Bill Clinton would have run again would he have won?

[Gan]

Who is better in the past 50 years? If you say Reagan, I laugh in your face. Reagan was an ass. The only one remotely as smart as Clinton was Nixon, and he was an evil fuck. Maybe Bush Sr....maaaaybe. JFK was a good president, but had his administration cut short by a bullet.

Definitely the past 30 years, probably the last 50.

-TheE-

So yea, because Reagan was an ass, that means he wasnt a good president.

Love that logic there.

[Gan]

I guess the question is, if Bill Clinton would have run again would he have won?


Without a doubt. He literally charmed the pants off the US populace (*and female white house interns....). Yes he was smart, and yes he's got charm out the ass (which makes up for the lack of in Hillary)... but Bill's big character flaw is that he's self serving. Thats the same commonality that is shared between Hillary and Bill.

[Ilvane]

One thing Bill Clinton was not good with was common sense. He was intellectually book smart, very intelligent..but when it came to his common sense, personally.. he needed a dope slap.


Angela

[Kembal]

Doesn't surprise me that even a portion of the people who will vote for Hillary are doing so because of Bill. If you look at 1992-2000 vs. 2001-present, people are going to consider 1992-2000 more successful and productive in terms of policy, in spite of the impeachment trial. Factor in current economic uncertainity, the war, and the Bush administration's general incompetence, and it's easy to see that people are nostalgic for the 42nd president.

[Axhinde]

I won't vote for Hillary because:
-a good amount of women are voting for her simply because they want a woman prez
-i don't like her politics, views, policies, or face
-she didn't have the balls(which actually surprised me) to ditch Bill when he got caught more than once

[Gan]

And that ladies and gentlemen is why we still have the electoral college.

[Ilvane]

Well, family values advocates, who has been married for um, 30 years or so, even with infidelity?

I suppose she could have tossed him off and taken up with some young guy, or traded up to the new version like Guiliani and McCain, but she decided to save her family..No way!

Angela

[Axhinde]

Well, family values advocates, who has been married for um, 30 years or so, even with infidelity?

I suppose she could have tossed him off and taken up with some young guy, or traded up to the new version like Guiliani and McCain, but she decided to save her family..No way!

Angela

I won't argue with you. Not because I think you are right, but I made my point already. I don't think it had anything to do with saving her family, btw.

[Bobmuhthol]

I like how TheE is the rightest person in this thread.

[Hulkein]

I like how TheE is the rightest person in this thread.

Massholes unite!

[Keller]

Bill Clinton is self-serving?

Bill Clinton lacks common sense?

TheE, do you ever get the feeling that your image of what the reasonable person would do is completely fucked because you've spent too much time on the PC?

[Hulkein]

Bombing countries to get the news cycle off stories of you copping a blowjie in the Oval Office = self-serving.

Getting dome in the Oval Office = lack of common sense.

[Gan]

Bill Clinton is self-serving?

Bill Clinton lacks common sense?

TheE, do you ever get the feeling that your image of what the reasonable person would do is completely fucked because you've spent too much time on the PC?

Does this pertain to his preference to live in an idealistic fantasy world? Or the real one?

:whistle:

[Latrinsorm]

Who is better in the past 50 years?Eisenhower for sure, and I'd say Kennedy as well. That Kennedy wasn't in office as long is pretty meaningless.

[Celephais]

That makes more sense. Thanks PB. Hey, I guess they're right. Senior citizens, although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose.
:rofl: Love the reference.

[Gelston]

Eisenhower for sure, and I'd say Kennedy as well. That Kennedy wasn't in office as long is pretty meaningless.

Interstate Highways FTW

[Drew]

I agree with TheE on one thing, Clinton probably was the smartest President of the last 50 years. That doesn't make him the best, or even a good leader. Some of the best leaders aren't terribly smart.

[Jenisi]

A vote for Hillary is a vote for....

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b64/pinkberries17/HillarySponsored.jpg

[Hulkein]

Those two thighs combined is the size a single real Hillary leg. Funny picture though.

[Parkbandit]

That makes more sense. Thanks PB. Hey, I guess they're right. Senior citizens, although slow and dangerous behind the wheel, can still serve a purpose.


You mother fucker.... don't quote Jim Carrey lines to me!

[Sean of the Thread]

Clinton the smartest eh? That's funny.

[Parkbandit]

Clinton the smartest eh? That's funny.

Not only that.. but that he was the best President in the past 50 years.

:rofl:

Should we ask TheE if he was talking about the real Bill Clinton.. or his fantasy world one? I bet TheE has a fantasy Bill Clinton... sick bastard.

[Parkbandit]

Oh.. and this in from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents

Clinton ranks behind Reagan, Kennedy and Eisenhower.. and a half point (1 ranking) above the evil George W BUSH!!!111oneone!

[radamanthys]

Clinton was quite intelligent, there's no doubt. I mean, it's kinda hard to be a Rhodes Scholar without a bit of intelligence. However, that didn't necessarily make him an effective leader or skilled policy maker. He wasn't as bad as his wife would be, though. Ike was most assuredly the best/most effective.

With shillary, it's quite apparently more about power than anything else. She scares me because she's in la-la land. And since we can never really get a straight answer to a question out of a candidate (the debates are a fucking joke), we'll just go with the "superficial ideals" election one more time. I seriously hope Obama beats her... then at least she won't be elected.

If it were to be a Democrat in office, I hope Obama wins. It would ruin Al and Jesse, and put a big halt on all this racial bullshit. "AMERICA HATES BLACK PEOPLE!! HAR!!" "Uh, no they don't." "Shit."

Hillary's answer to any problem is to make a government entity to solve the problem. Considering how we're being crippled by government spending right now, we realllly can't afford the expansion of governmental bureaucracy that would result.

[Ilvane]

Clinton ranks behind Reagan, Kennedy and Eisenhower.. and a half point (1 ranking) above the evil George W BUSH!!!111oneone!

I read into that a bit more, and thankfully the most recent seems to be around 2002 for surveys on this..So at least I can take comfort in that. I think people realize that George W. is a piece of horrid work. How does Reagan stand so high in thos polls? Can someone really explain how he was SO great?

I at least have respect for George HW, because he was a war hero, and had a leg to stand on where he stood on his issues, popular or not. I prefer him to Reagan or W.

Angela

[Warriorbird]

"Crippled by government spending"...

...on the war.

[Celephais]

Oh.. and this in from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents

Clinton ranks behind Reagan, Kennedy and Eisenhower.. and a half point (1 ranking) above the evil George W BUSH!!!111oneone!

...

Ranking systems are usually based on surveys of academic historians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historian) and political scientists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_scientist) or popular opinion

Ugh... that's a fanastic metric to use...

[Parkbandit]

...


Ugh... that's a fanastic metric to use...

Please put up a better metric for judging a person. It's an OPINION.

And I would far sooner use this tool, than to just use the opinions of people like TheE and Ilvane.

[Sean of the Thread]

Ike was the man.

[Warriorbird]

I'd say Ike'd be the best President in the period. Everybody else that matters had tremendous faults in addition to tremendous accomplishments. Bill Clinton's wake justified Dubya and a Republican resurgence...thus not making him the best President in 50 years by far. Ike also had actual principles...which seem to be decisively lacking in most of the other Presidents of the period.

[Gelston]

I'd imagine those people saying Clinton wasn't better then Ike, likely weren't alive during Ike's presidency. Its a fairly common. Ask someone that was old enough then to remember it, and it will likely not be a vote for Bill being the best. (If they aren't senile)

[Celephais]

Please put up a better metric for judging a person. It's an OPINION.

And I would far sooner use this tool, than to just use the opinions of people like TheE and Ilvane.
That's fine to call it an opinion, but it's stupid to use the opinions of another person to invalidate the opinion of yet another person.

I agree it's probably pretty shortsited of TheE to say "50 years" especially not having the firsthand experience of being of voting age for all of them as you were, it's just too easy for anyone to look at the progress of certain presidents in relation to the terms around them. As has also been said in a million of these threads, it's impossible to judge the full effects of a presidency during it's term, as most good presidents think about the long term effects of their actions (and in the process rarely reap the credit).

As for my opinion, Clinton is the best fucking president for the duration of my fledgling experience with politics (I wasn't even old enough to vote for him).

[Gan]

"Crippled by government spending"...

...on the war.

Yea, who would have thought that wars would be expensive.



BRILLIANT!

[Warriorbird]

I dunno. Certainly not the people who didn't get into them for any good reason and stayed way too long.

You were an Econ major, I believe. Go look up the sunk cost fallacy.

:)

[Gan]

I dunno. Certainly not the people who didn't get into them for any good reason and stayed way too long.

You were an Econ major, I believe. Go look up the sunk cost fallacy.

:)

Basing any theory on opinion is pure fallacy.

[Warriorbird]

How postmodern. Most postmodernists tend to be liberals. The panzaism must be intense.

[Hulkein]

I read into that a bit more, and thankfully the most recent seems to be around 2002 for surveys on this..So at least I can take comfort in that. I think people realize that George W. is a piece of horrid work. How does Reagan stand so high in thos polls? Can someone really explain how he was SO great?

I at least have respect for George HW, because he was a war hero, and had a leg to stand on where he stood on his issues, popular or not. I prefer him to Reagan or W.

Angela

If Iraq ends up being only moderately successful as a democracy, and I know it's not a small if, 43 is going to go down as a pretty good president considering his success post 9/11.

People right now discount the fact that we haven't been attacked since then. People won't be so forgetful of that fact if the next president isn't as brazen as Bush in protecting the country and we get hit with a few attacks per year.

[Gan]

How postmodern. Most postmodernists tend to be liberals. The panzaism must be intense.

You would know about the disingenuous nature of postmodernism...

[Gan]

If Iraq ends up being only moderately successful as a democracy, and I know it's not a small if, 43 is going to go down as a pretty good president considering his success post 9/11.

People right now discount the fact that we haven't been attacked since then. People won't be so forgetful of that fact if the next president isn't as brazen as Bush in protecting the country and we get hit with a few attacks per year.

FEAR MONGER!!!

[Ilvane]

I guess it all depends on what you call success in an administration.

I just think we have spent far too much time taking care of other countries, and haven't concentrated on taking care of our own people. I would love to have seen even a quarter of the budget for the war go to health care for seniors or children.

Why would I vote for Hillary? Because her priorities are more here then they are overseas. It's great to have a strong want to have democracy in Iraq, and have a stable region there for use to get oil from, however, we shouldn't be doing this at the expense of our own country. Between the cost of the war, the deficits it is causing, and the death and wounding of our troops, we have lost plenty in this endeavor with Iraq.

I can even see where it may have been a good idea, had there been a more honest reason for going into Iraq, but this administration has said nothing that would convince many people of that.

Angela

[Warriorbird]

Hillary's priorities are losing the election.

[Gan]

Go Hillary!

[Parkbandit]

I guess it all depends on what you call success in an administration.

I just think we have spent far too much time taking care of other countries, and haven't concentrated on taking care of our own people. I would love to have seen even a quarter of the budget for the war go to health care for seniors or children.

Why would I vote for Hillary? Because her priorities are more here then they are overseas. It's great to have a strong want to have democracy in Iraq, and have a stable region there for use to get oil from, however, we shouldn't be doing this at the expense of our own country. Between the cost of the war, the deficits it is causing, and the death and wounding of our troops, we have lost plenty in this endeavor with Iraq.

I can even see where it may have been a good idea, had there been a more honest reason for going into Iraq, but this administration has said nothing that would convince many people of that.

Angela


Jesus Christ.. it's like you work for moveon.org

Or a farm. Lots of bullshit being slung around here.

OMG! WE'RE NOT TAKING CARE OF OUR ELDERLY!

OMG! WE'RE NOT TAKING CARE OF OUR CHILDREN! THEY ARE OUR FUTURE YOU KNOW!!

OMG! WE R DOOMED UNLESS WE ELECT HILLARY!


:rofl:

[Warriorbird]

"Go Hillary!"
-Gan

I've been saying that Republicans need to stop with the "Hate Hillary" bandwagons for a while. She's the best chance to win the election if they don't run Rudy.

[CrystalTears]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/smilies/cheer.gif

I don't know who I'm voting for, but Hillary is the only one I know I certainly won't be voting for.

[Ilvane]

I'm not getting into it with you PB.

I was quite sure in looking at Hillary's voting record, and what she wants to do, that she cares about issues I care about. I think that is plenty of a reason to cast a vote for her. At least I look into the issues quite a bit before making a decision. I'm not one of the sheep that just votes democrat because she is democrat, etc. I just prefer her. :shrug:

Angela

[Gan]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/smilies/cheer.gif

I don't know who I'm voting for, but Hillary is the only one I know I certainly won't be voting for.

R Team Unite!

:lol:

[Warriorbird]

She's a divider, Angela. America doesn't need another. Bill Clinton and Dubya have already done a hell of a job in combining to tear people apart.

[Gan]

I'm not getting into it with you PB.

I was quite sure in looking at Hillary's voting record, and what she wants to do, that she cares about issues I care about. I think that is plenty of a reason to cast a vote for her. At least I look into the issues quite a bit before making a decision. I'm not one of the sheep that just votes democrat because she is democrat, etc. I just prefer her. :shrug:

Angela

I would guess that her voting record is about as extensive as Obama's. Being seasoned senators and all...

[Ilvane]

And Guiliani's voting record? Hmm.

As for her being a divider, I'm not really sure how. Who is a uniter of all of these people, anyway?

[Gan]

And Guiliani's voting record? Hmm.

As for her being a divider, I'm not really sure how. Who is a uniter of all of these people, anyway?

LOL I must have hit a nerve. I thought we were talking about Hillar(it)y in this thread.

[Warriorbird]

Obama's much more of a unifying force than Hillary... and while certainly not loved by Republicans... he's not someone who's to the level where people would give tremendous amounts of funds just to see him not elected.

:shrugs:

He's not my first choice but I'd choose him before Hillary.

[Ilvane]

LOL I must have hit a nerve. I thought we were talking about Hillar(it)y in this thread.

Oh, I see how it is..god forbid I question your candidate on the same thing.

I see how it works.:)

Have a nice day!

[Ilvane]

Yeah, WB, I can see what you mean by Obama, but I think if he became the candidate it would change somewhat. I haven't figured out why Hillary is so polarizing yet, but I'm sure someone could explain it to me in a rational manner.

Lots of people say they hate her, but they don't say much except..She seems like a bitch.

Angela

[Warriorbird]

Republicans hate Bill Clinton. He was charming, he was popular, he balanced the budget, people loved him, and he had sex with a fat intern. He got away with lying about having sex with a fat intern and they couldn't quite manage to throw him out of office despite spending 44 million on Ken Starr.

Hillary was his enabling wife... therefore an object of even greater hatred. She's been painted as a symbol of "liberal" by the conservative movement which does a great job of making individualized targets while attempting to be a united whole themselves. This is funny...because when you consider the Democratic party she's actually a part of certain much more conservative portions of it. Big insurance/pharm spent a lot of money going after her as well because they can't stand the idea of universal health care.

She's also in the pocket of a bunch of special interest groups and would say anything if it got her elected.

Most politicans would do that...but she's been painted that way very effectively.

She's a liability.

Lots of folks in America also don't like powerful women... and she plays the "men are attacking me!" card. Those folks HATE that. It's sort of like lots of folks aren't thrilled by the current state of the black population and the black population plays the "Racism!" card. Those folks hate that.

[Ilvane]

Interesting thoughts. I wonder if she had dumped Bill back when he played around with Monica if she would have been more accepted. I don't fault her for that. Maybe she understands him more than we do(or maybe she wants the power of being his wife, no idea what her motives are).

I agree that she is more conservative than many of the people in the Democratic party. I'm not entirely thrilled with the total left wing or the total right. I actually fall someplace in the middle despite PB's claims of me being liberal(heh), and I find her to be reasonable, and I agree with her more than I agreed with Bill in some cases.

The sad part is nowadays, it would be hard to find anyone who wasn't in the pocket of some special interest group. Sadly those groups, as well as big businesses, all have big stakes in elections in our government, from the bottom level upward. I wish there had been more campaign finance reform, and I loved McCain/Feingold, though I thought it could have gone further.

Anyway, thank you for the interesting thoughts, it's good to have a discussion that doesn't "attack" on here.:)

Angela

[Warriorbird]

Lots of Democrats dislike her because of her Iraq stands as well.

[Parkbandit]

I'm not getting into it with you PB.


Angela


Smartest thing you've ever posted in a political thread. Well played.

[Parkbandit]

Republicans hate Bill Clinton. He was charming, he was popular, he balanced the budget, people loved him, and he had sex with a fat intern. He got away with lying about having sex with a fat intern and they couldn't quite manage to throw him out of office despite spending 44 million on Ken Starr.

Hillary was his enabling wife... therefore an object of even greater hatred. She's been painted as a symbol of "liberal" by the conservative movement which does a great job of making individualized targets while attempting to be a united whole themselves. This is funny...because when you consider the Democratic party she's actually a part of certain much more conservative portions of it. Big insurance/pharm spent a lot of money going after her as well because they can't stand the idea of universal health care.

She's also in the pocket of a bunch of special interest groups and would say anything if it got her elected.

Most politicans would do that...but she's been painted that way very effectively.

She's a liability.

Lots of folks in America also don't like powerful women... and she plays the "men are attacking me!" card. Those folks HATE that. It's sort of like lots of folks aren't thrilled by the current state of the black population and the black population plays the "Racism!" card. Those folks hate that.


LOL.. "she's been painted that way very effectively" makes her sound like a victim of the <insert evil music here> EVIL RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY PEOPLE!! I mean.. it couldn't possibly be that she has presented herself that way. NO WAY!

[Warriorbird]

Personally I'm not sure she actually believes anything in either direction. I think her foremost ambition is to get the Presidency by any means necessary so she can get a bit more of this.

NSFW
http://www.zombietime.com/really_truly_hillary_gallery/Hillary62.jpg

I sure would.

[Gan]

Oh, I see how it is..god forbid I question your candidate on the same thing.

I see how it works.:)

Have a nice day!

Once we're done trashing Hillary we can trash Rudy. OR you can start a Rudy thread yourself.

I'm just trying to keep your non-moderating ass on topic.

And the thanks I get for a little help.

sheesh

[Gan]

Lots of people say they hate her, but they don't say much except..She seems like a bitch.

Anti-Clinton

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Boswell, John (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Boswell_%28writer%29&action=edit), The Unshredded Files of Hillary and Bill Clinton. Broadway, 1996. ISBN 0-553-06763-X (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=055306763X).
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Brock, David (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brock), The Seduction of Hillary Rodham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seduction_of_Hillary_Rodham). Simon & Schuster, 1996. ISBN 0-684-83451-0 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0684834510).
Buchanan, Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Buchanan), The Extreme Makeover of Hillary (Rodham) Clinton. Regnery Publishing, 2007. ISBN 978-1596985070 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=9781596985070).
Carpenter, Amanda B. (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amanda_Carpenter&action=edit). The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton. Regnery Publishing, 2006. ISBN 1-59698-014-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=1596980141).
Goldberg, Jonah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah_Goldberg), Liberal Fascism: The Totalitarian Temptation from Mussolini to Hillary Clinton. Doubleday, 2007. ISBN 0-385-51184-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0385511841).
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Klein, Edward (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Klein). The Truth About Hillary: What She Knew, When She Knew It, and How Far She'll Go to Become President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Truth_About_Hillary). Penguin, 2005. ISBN 1-59523-006-8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=1595230068).
Kuiper, Thomas (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thomas_Kuiper&action=edit). I've Always Been a Yankees Fan: Hillary Clinton in Her Own Words. World Ahead Publishing, 2006. ISBN 0-9746701-8-9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0974670189).
LeBorts, George (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_LeBorts&action=edit) and Wojciech Wilk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojciech_Wilk) (illus.), The Very Unofficial Hillary Clinton Coloring Book. Strobooks, 2007. ISBN 978-0979493706 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=9780979493706).
Limbacher, Carl (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Carl_Limbacher&action=edit). Hillary's Scheme: Inside the Next Clinton's Ruthless Agenda to Take the White House. Crown Publishing, 2003. ISBN 0-7615-3115-7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0761531157).
Milton, Joyce (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Joyce_Milton&action=edit). The First Partner: Hillary Rodham Clinton. William Morris, 1999. ISBN 0-688-15501-4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0688155014).
Morris, Dick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Morris). Rewriting History. HarperCollins, 2004. ISBN 0-06-073668-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0060736682).
Morris, Dick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Morris) and McGann, Eileen (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eileen_McGann&action=edit). Condi vs. Hillary : The Next Great Presidential Race. HarperCollins, 2005. ISBN 0-06-083913-9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0060839139).
Noonan, Peggy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Noonan). The Case Against Hillary Clinton. HarperCollins, 2000. ISBN 0-06-039340-8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0060393408).
Olson, Barbara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Olson). Hell to Pay: The Unfolding Story of Hillary Rodham Clinton. Regnery Publishing, 1999. ISBN 0-89526-197-9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0895261979).
Podhoretz, John (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Podhoretz). Can She Be Stopped? : Hillary Clinton Will Be the Next President of the United States Unless .... Crown Publishing, 2006. ISBN 0-307-33730-8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0307337308).
Poe, Richard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Poe). Hillary's Secret War: The Clinton Conspiracy to Muzzle Internet Journalists. Nelson Current, 2004. ISBN 0-7852-6013-7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0785260137).
Regan, Turk (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turk_Regan&action=edit). The Hillary Clinton Voodoo Kit: Stick It to Her, Before She Sticks It to You!. Running Press Book Publishers, 2007. ISBN 0-7624-2965-8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0762429658).
Tyrrell, R. Emmett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Emmett_Tyrrell) and Davis, Mark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Davis_%28talk_show_host%29). Madame Hillary: The Dark Road to the White House (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madame_Hillary:_The_Dark_Road_to_the_White_House). Regnery Publishing, 2004. ISBN 0-89526-067-0 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Booksources&isbn=0895260670).

[Ilvane]

I think it was a valid question considering you said that Hillary didn't have much of a voting record. I wanted to know how great Rudy's was..It was pretty much a simple question.

I'd love to have a Rudy topic. I'm not impressed by him in the slightest.

Only Republican running right now worth his salt is John McCain.

Angela

[Hulkein]

McCain is ok, he won't get elected though. I'll be voting for Romney because he's the most electable fiscally conservative candidate of the top three (him, Rudy, Huckabee).

I'll still drop the RON PAUL whenever anyone asks though.

[Latrinsorm]

Because her priorities are more here then they are overseas.
she cares about issues I care about....today.
it's good to have a discussion that doesn't "attack" on here.An "attack" such as... "All the bull that Bush pulls is on you idiots who voted for him."?

[Kembal]

Once we're done trashing Hillary we can trash Rudy. OR you can start a Rudy thread yourself.

Hey! I start the (negative) Rudy threads around here! ;)

Speaking of which, latest polling shows him on a considerable downward trend...he's lost 6 to 8 points nationally in the past month, and he's losing ground in IA, NH, and SC. (Huckabee's passed him in Iowa, McCain's passed him in NH, and Romney's passed him in SC.)

As an aside, that list of books about Clinton reads like a list of Republican hacks. Though I did laugh at the number of books published by Regenery...they inflated their book sales numbers by selling to Republican-affiliated outfits (book clubs and the like) they controlled at discount prices, and now a lot of the authors are suing them for lost royalties.

[Stanley Burrell]

That would be really crazy to vote someone back into the White House with a name resemblance.