GA Governor Prays for Rain

[chillmonster]

Ga. Governor Bows Head In Prayer For Rain (http://www.wsbtv.com/weather/14575986/detail.html?rss=atl&psp=nationalnews)


Perdue joined lawmakers and ministers on the steps of the state Capitol to pray for rain.

The Atlanta Freethought Society said about a dozen of its members will protest at the vigil.

Perdue won't be the first governor to call for public prayer during the epic drought gripping the Southeast.

Alabama Gov. Bob Riley issued a proclamation declaring a week in July as "Days of Prayer for Rain" to ask God "for His blessings and to hold us steady in times of difficulty."

Purdue has previously ordered water restrictions and asked President George W. Bush for help.

WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF?

Clueless governor runs out of ideas and decides to just pray for rain. This is the kind of shit you deal with in the south. He should kill himself.

[Skeeter]

He should bring in the pac-man. He has no trouble making it rain.

[Sean of the Thread]

Ga. Governor Bows Head In Prayer For Rain (http://www.wsbtv.com/weather/14575986/detail.html?rss=atl&psp=nationalnews)



WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF? WTF?

Clueless governor runs out of ideas and decides to just pray for rain. This is the kind of shit you deal with in the south. He should kill himself.

I'm not religious in anyway shape or form. My faith is in statistics and infinity. For every negative event therel shall be a positive. That's a fact.

That being said I can't really say that I'd ask for someone to kill themselves over their religious belief. So be it and who the fuck am I to say otherwise.

[chillmonster]

I'm not religious in anyway shape or form. My faith is in statistics and infinity. For every negative event therel shall be a positive. That's a fact.

That being said I can't really say that I'd ask for someone to kill themselves over their religious belief. So be it and who the fuck am I to say otherwise.

It's not about his religious belief. It's about the fact that he isn't doing his fucking job. "Let's not legislate or solve problems. Just put it in God's hands." If you lived in GA it would piss you off too.

[thefarmer]

It's not about his religious belief. It's about the fact that he isn't doing his fucking job. "Let's not legislate or solve problems. Just put it in God's hands." If you lived in GA it would piss you off too.

Because lawmakers ALWAYS solve problems...

[chillmonster]

Because lawmakers ALWAYS solve problems...

But he isn't even trying! I haven't seen a single plan restructuring the water deals with Alabama and Florida - only a lawsuit a prayer. Literally, a prayer. This is fucking pathetic.

[875000]

It's not about his religious belief. It's about the fact that he isn't doing his fucking job. "Let's not legislate or solve problems. Just put it in God's hands." If you lived in GA it would piss you off too.

You're right -- the solution to this problem is to pass more laws.

After all, it's not like the Governor of Georgia has been pressing federal officials to temporarily lift requirements of the Endangered Species Act and reduce the amount of water flowing out of Georgia's Lake Lanier into other states. Or mandate a 10 percent reduction in water consumption.

Oh wait -- he has.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2007/10/31/Governors_1101_web.html

[chillmonster]

You're right -- the solution to this problem is to pass more laws.

After all, it's not like the Governor of Georgia has been pressing federal officials to temporarily lift requirements of the Endangered Species Act and reduce the amount of water flowing out of Georgia's Lake Lanier into other states. Or mandate a 10 percent reduction in water consumption.

Oh wait -- he has.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2007/10/31/Governors_1101_web.html

Ok. You've done your Google search to find the first piece of info you think counteracts my point, but since you don't live here and you haven't been hearing what's going on for the last 2 months, you really don't know what you're talking about. They've been asking for that for a month now and gotten nowhere.

Also your outdated info apparently doesn't have that new numbers that show we have roughly 300 days of water left instead of the 80-120 in the article. So, the solution isn't begging them for a temporary lift of the Federal Requirements. We need a more long term solution.. Atlanta is growing fast and isn't going to stop any time soon. We need to permanently restructure those deals requiring us to send so much water to Florida and Alabama to make sure this crisis doesn't repeat itself.

Not to mention the fact that praying for rain isn't going to solve shit.

[Drew]

No way Florida restructures, it's not your water, it just temporarily resides in your state, KEEP IT FLOWING!

RAH RAH

[875000]

Ok. You've done your Google search to find the first piece of info you think counteracts my point, but since you don't live here and you haven't been hearing what's going on for the last 2 months, you really don't know what you're talking about. They've been asking for that for a month now and gotten nowhere.

Also your outdated info apparently doesn't have that new numbers that show we have roughly 300 days of water left instead of the 80-120 in the article. So, the solution isn't begging them for a temporary lift of the Federal Requirements. We need a more long term solution.. Atlanta is growing fast and isn't going to stop any time soon. We need to permanently restructure those deals requiring us to send so much water to Florida and Alabama to make sure this crisis doesn't repeat itself.

Not to mention the fact that praying for rain isn't going to solve shit.

How wrong art though Backlash. Let me and others count the ways.


... since you don't live here and you haven't been hearing what's going on for the last 2 months, you really don't know what you're talking about.

And I would say you would have the beginning of an argument here, were it not for the fact that I am a resident of Georgia (Cobb County, to be exact), work in Atlanta, and hear about it pretty much every day (as long as I am not on a travel assignment) as I listen to the radio while driving into work, talk to coworkers or friends, listen to the news or read the major local newspaper. You know, like the one (AJC) I quoted.

Question to the rest of the audience out there -- does this count as him being wrong on one count or two at the moment?


Also your outdated info apparently ...

Very few current sources are nice enough to post a recap of everything that has transpired thus far. I used an older source to show he has been doing something, contrary to your assertions. Which was rather the point of this thread. Unless you were lying about not attacking someone because of their religious faith. Which would then make you a liar and a bigot as well as wrong.

So, for the people who are keeping score, that should put you as wrong on two points. Or three, depending on the audience's prior ruling.

Now as to your next point ...


We need to permanently restructure those deals requiring us to send so much water to Florida and Alabama to make sure this crisis doesn't repeat itself.

Lake Lanier is a man-made lake. It was built and is currently controlled by the US Army Corps of Engineers for the following expressed purposes:
1. Flood control, to protect Metro Atlanta
2. Provide water for hydro electricity
3. Provide water for the protection of endangered or protected species.
4. Drinking water for metro Atlanta.

Now here's the interesting part. The lake is fed by two rivers -- the Chattahoochee River and the Chestatee River -- which cross state lines.

Federal Law mandates that when a river flows between two or more states, each state has a right to an equal share of the water. Additionally, other federal laws such as the Endangered Species Act require that water be available for threatened or endangered species that live in or around Chattahoochee River and Apalachicola Bay.

However, since the lake's construction, metro Atlanta has been taking water from the lake to use for municipal drinking water, which was only authorized by Congress as an incidental use secondary to hydroelectricity.

Which means the Governor of Georgia can't snap his fingers and renegotiate the deal. Federal law trumps state law. Two other states have just as valid legal claims. Ultimately, this is a federal decision , which is why the federal government has been involved.

I can keep going with this, but the point is the Governor of Georgia can't do what you are demanding. Ultimately, what will need to be done is smarter construction of future development projects in Atlanta, as well as repairing/update the older construction. However, that is more of a local issue (i.e., Atlanta) than a statewide (i.e., nearly the rest of the state) one.

Now, refresh my memory -- who is the mayor of Atlanta? Oh, that's right. Shirley Franklin. And what party does she belong to? She's a Democrat? And how many Republicans have been mayor of Atlanta? I'll give you hint. It rhymes with a Roman Emperor who allegedly fiddled as his city burned.

That makes you wrong on three counts. Or Four. Someone help me.

Now, since you have taken such an interest in me and where I am from, it’s only fair that I ask you to share:

1. Despite living in Atlanta, you did not seem to recognize that the Atlanta-Journal Constitution is one of the major -- if not the major -- local newspaper(s). Why is that?
2. Even though the controversy over Lake Lanier has been in the news for several months now, you did not seem to know or acknowledge that the lake control of Lake Lanier extends far beyond the Endangered Specials Act and ties into basic US water rights. Was your mention of this issue merely a fig leaf to disguise your religious intolerance or based on a poor understanding of the concept of Federalism and States Rights?
3. Similarly, you did not know that the use of Lake Lanier as a drinking source was not the intended primary purpose of the body of water. Have you limited your understanding of this controversy to what others tell you, or have you seen the exhaustive early coverage and chose to ignore it for purposes of scoring cheap points.
4. Your main assertion is that the long term focus should be on water rights, whereas every major news outlet in and out of the state have been pointing out the main long term solution is smarter development, with an eye towards water conservation. Is this due to a limited knowledge of the issues facing Atlanta, or part of a broader partisan witch-hunt?

An irony of life: why is it that hippies tend to be the least tolerant of people with views different from their own?

[thefarmer]

You went to way more effort than needed to prove he's an idiot.

His stupidity was evident when he posted his own comments after pasting the article.

[Gan]

Wait... whats that sound?

Thats the sound of Chillmonster's footsteps running out of stage left.

Nice post 875000.

:lol:

[Sean of the Thread]

It's not about his religious belief. It's about the fact that he isn't doing his fucking job. "Let's not legislate or solve problems. Just put it in God's hands." If you lived in GA it would piss you off too.

Uhm Florida's legislature set aside a day of prayer asking god to keep the hurricanes away this year.

I just laughed and moved on.


OH and what drew said. KEEP THAT WATER FLOWING BITCHES! Unless you want to play GOD.

[Clove]

And this is why I call him Chillash. Nice post 875000. Way to make a dumbass assumption about someone you don't know Chillmonster.

[serra7965]

He should be praying the Corps or Engineers would not accidentally release 22 billion gallons of water again....like in June....yay Corps can you build us some levee's too?

[chillmonster]

1. Despite living in Atlanta, you did not seem to recognize that the Atlanta-Journal Constitution is one of the major -- if not the major -- local newspaper(s).

Where did you get that I didn't know that the AJC was one the major newspaper in Atlanta? What reason would I have to begin my post by aknowledging that? That point is just stupid.

I said your outdated link didn't recognize that the Army Corps have recalculated that we had almost 300 days of water and not the 80-120 in your outdated article. Therefore, temporarily lifting of federal requirements wouldn't solve the problem.


2. Even though the controversy over Lake Lanier has been in the news for several months now, you did not seem to know or acknowledge that the lake control of Lake Lanier extends far beyond the Endangered Specials Act and ties into basic US water rights. Was your mention of this issue merely a fig leaf to disguise your religious intolerance or based on a poor understanding of the concept of Federalism and States Rights?

Religious intolerance? Me wanting my governor to do his job and not simply waste time praying for rain? Are you serious?


3. Similarly, you did not know that the use of Lake Lanier as a drinking source was not the intended primary purpose of the body of water. Have you limited your understanding of this controversy to what others tell you, or have you seen the exhaustive early coverage and chose to ignore it for purposes of scoring cheap points.

You're still missing the point. I made no mention at all about the initial purposes of the lake. I didn't mention Lanier and Allatoona at all, in fact. My point is I haven't seen any long term proposal to solve this problem, and the measures they have taken are completely insufficient. Furthermore, instead of putting all of his time and energy into solving this problem, he takes the time to organize a publicity stunt for idiot religious fundamentals? This isn't good government no matter what you say.


4. Your main assertion is that the long term focus should be on water rights, whereas every major news outlet in and out of the state have been pointing out the main long term solution is smarter development, with an eye towards water conservation.

No it hasn't. That has been part of the debate, but to say that has been the entirety is blatantly misrepresenting the facts.


Is this due to a limited knowledge of the issues facing Atlanta, or part of a broader partisan witch-hunt?

An irony of life: why is it that hippies tend to be the least tolerant of people with views different from their own?

Partisan witch-hunt? I guess you voted for Sonny Purdue, so you feel a need to defend him, but that doesn't change the fact that he isn't rising to the occasion on this, the first real crisis during his administration. I think he's a fat, smiling, moron and completely inept. The fact that you refuse to look at him with a critical eye says more about you than it does about me. There's nothing wrong with wanting your governor to do his job.

[CrystalTears]

He's asking for prayer because he's going to invoke divine intervention and part the lakes. And Jesus is going to make an appearance and turn wine into water.

[Clove]

There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch. ...

[chillmonster]

Wait... whats that sound?

Thats the sound of Chillmonster's footsteps running out of stage left.

Nice post 875000.

:lol:

I often get bored with some of these people, but I never run away. :medieval:

[RichardCranium]

What's up with all the atheists that post here?

There's nothing wrong with prayer. I seriously doubt that this means the Governor has abandoned all other avenues and is solely relying on his prayers being answered.

[Clove]

I said your outdated link didn't recognize that the Army Corps have recalculated that we had almost 300 days of water and not the 80-120 in your outdated article. Therefore, temporarily lifting of federal requirements wouldn't solve the problem.

Can you expand on your logic (or lack thereof). Why wouldn't increasing the water supply (even temporarily) NOT be a part of the solution. Given nearly a year of reserves with your present supply and assuming over the next year measures are taken to better manage your water resources- wouldn't increasing your supply temporarily help extend your reserves and possibly give Georgia enough time to correct the problem?

It may be moot since the river sources do need to be shared with the region; but your statement makes little sense to me.

[Clove]

What's up with all the atheists that post here?

There's nothing wrong with prayer. I seriously doubt that this means the Governor has abandoned all other avenues and is solely relying on his prayers being answered.

Taking a couple hours for a publicity prayer meeting clearly means he isn't doing anything about the problem with the rest of his day.

[TheEschaton]

I am religious, I just don't think prayer should be the focus of officially sanctioned state functions. I, unlike Chillmonster, don't think it's a waste of time, but rather, a violation of our Constitution.

Pray at night when you go home, dumbass governor of GA.

-TheE-

[Clove]

I am religious, I just don't think prayer should be the focus of officially sanctioned state functions. I, unlike Chillmonster, don't think it's a waste of time, but rather, a violation of our Constitution.

Pray at night when you go home, dumbass governor of GA.

-TheE-

Yes, we shouldn't actually express our religious beliefs. Especially if we participate in the functioning government. Crap- this is a Democracy; we all participate in the functioning government.

"Prayer" is a generic function of nearly every faith (I can't think of one it isn't but Latrin probably knows one).

I disagree (along with many others) that the concept of separating church and state translates to obliterating all publicly visible expressions of faith by government officials. So long as no citizen is required to profess a state sanctioned faith(s)/non-faith(s) in order to appreciate the full rights and privileges of their citizenship separation has been achieved.

If someone is threatened by anothers' expression of personal faith (even an official's) then they really don't get what a country of religious tolerance is all about in my opinion.

[TheEschaton]

You can be a faithful person working in government. However, faith is a personal process, not a public one. You cannot be a representative of the state, and use state assets, including state rooms and funds for the event, for religious purposes, generic or not. This has been addressed by SCOTUS many times in general-prayer-in-school cases. Mainly, you have to look at the intent behind the general prayer - certainly the gov'r of GA wouldn't be okay with a Hindu puja or a Buddhist incantation - his intent is to pray to a Christian god, no matter how general he says it.

(If you haven't figured it out, I'm a strict seperatist despite being religious.)

-TheE-

[chillmonster]

Can you expand on your logic (or lack thereof). Why wouldn't increasing the water supply (even temporarily) NOT be a part of the solution. Given nearly a year of reserves with your present supply and assuming over the next year measures are taken to better manage your water resources- wouldn't increasing your supply temporarily help extend your reserves and possibly give Georgia enough time to correct the problem?

It may be moot since the river sources do need to be shared with the region; but your statement makes little sense to me.

What the hell does that have to do with his publicity stunt?

Clove, you're a cheerleader who obviously can't think for himself, so you'd do better to stick with cheering for Gan or PB or 875. The entire point is this has been going on for months and we should have been making progress toward a long term solution the entire time. The fact that we still have no idea how we're going to prevent this from happening in the future says a lot.

[chillmonster]

And besides, we didn't elect him to lead us in prayer. We elected him to come up with real world solutions to our real world problems. Government officials should never turn to prayer in place of policy to solve our problems. I view it as passing the buck.

[Clove]

What the hell does that have to do with his publicity stunt?

Clove, you're a cheerleader who obviously can't think for himself, so you'd do better to stick with cheering for Gan or PB or 875. The entire point is this has been going on for months and we should have been making progress toward a long term solution the entire time. The fact that we still have no idea how we're going to prevent this from happening in the future says a lot.

Fucking answer the question asshole.

[CrystalTears]

I don't see it as turning to prayer in place of policy, more like in addition to.

If he hadn't been trying anything, I can understand getting all bent out of shape, but just asking to pray is not this big of a deal.

[Clove]

- certainly the gov'r of GA wouldn't be okay with a Hindu puja or a Buddhist incantation - his intent is to pray to a Christian god, no matter how general he says it.

(If you haven't figured it out, I'm a strict seperatist despite being religious.)

-TheE-

I don't see how you can be certain. I'm sure the governor intends to pray to a Christian god. I don't think it's fair to assume he'd kick out a Buddhist or Hindu official who attended the meeting for not "holding hands with JEEzus" and praying for water their own way.

[chillmonster]

I don't see it as turning to prayer in place of policy, more like in addition to.

If he hadn't been trying anything, I can understand getting all bent out of shape, but just asking to pray is not this big of a deal.

He didn't simply ask people to pray. He convened a public prayer session. It's such a waste of time.

Would you feel the same if he had taken everyone from their work to watch a medicine man to dance for rain? How about a vodoo priestess? It's rediculous.

[chillmonster]

Fucking answer the question asshole.

Good point. lol

[Martaigne]

Jesus only parts water and makes wine from water. He doesn't make water. He can't help us.

I think praying for rain is stupid too, but I'm a yankee living in the south. This is the way it is down here. If praying makes 'em feel better, it certainly can't hurt to let them try. Meanwhile, I'll be praying for taint.

875000 was right the fuck on in his post, by the way.

Our most major problem here is our exponential residential and commercial growth with no thought given to infrastructure. Some counties are now banning any new residential project permits until our water situation is resolved.

[TheEschaton]

I don't see how you can be certain. I'm sure the governor intends to pray to a Christian god. I don't think it's fair to assume he'd kick out a Buddhist or Hindu official who attended the meeting for not "holding hands with JEEzus" and praying for water their own way.

Well, unfortunately for you, case law has said that it's his intent to pray to a Christian God that makes it a violation of the Establishment Clause, not whether there's Hindus or Buddhists (or God forbid, atheists) around. It's been said that this is exclusive in nature, and looks to the strong proselytizing affect and essential goal of two of the world's largest religions, Christianity and Islam.

-TheE-

[CrystalTears]

He didn't simply ask people to pray. He convened a public prayer session. It's such a waste of time.

Would you feel the same if he had taken everyone from their work to watch a medicine man to dance for rain? How about a vodoo priestess? It's rediculous.
I think I'd prefer the raindance, actually.

He's not making anyone do anything. It's voluntary. Whose life is actually being wasted if people want to participate?

[CrystalTears]

Jesus only parts water and makes wine from water. He doesn't make water. He can't help us.
The shortage of water has drained your sense of humor. Pity. :tongue:

[Clove]

Good point. lol

http://dump.slaffs.com/dumpat/fail.png

From this I conclude you can't even account for your own dumb statements. When asked to expand on them you simply duck the question and respond with silly insults.

It is germane because one of the practical measures the Governor has taken has been an attempt to get Federal water restrictions changed.

[Skeeter]

Fat Joe makes it rain.

http://www.mtv.com/news/photos/f/fat_joe_make_rain_060912/a.jpg

[chillmonster]

Our most major problem here is our exponential residential and commercial growth with no thought given to infrastructure. Some counties are now banning any new residential project permits until our water situation is resolved.

You can't stop people from moving to Atlanta. As long as they keep coming, the need for housing (and water) will continue to grow. Asking the city to stop growing is obviously not the answer, so we need a long term solution. I still haven't seen anything long term from the Governor's office or heard about anything in the works. If you have, please let me know.

[chillmonster]

http://dump.slaffs.com/dumpat/fail.png

From this I conclude you can't even account for your own dumb statements. When asked to expand on them you simply duck the question and respond with silly insults.

It is germane because one of the practical measures the Governor has taken has been an attempt to get Federal water restrictions changed.

Don't blame me because your post was deserving of ridicule.

[Martaigne]

You can't stop people from moving to Atlanta. As long as they keep coming, the need for housing (and water) will continue to grow. Asking the city to stop growing is obviously not the answer, so we need a long term solution. I still haven't seen anything long term from the Governor's office or heard about anything in the works. If you have, please let me know.

I understand and concede the point that you can't stop people from moving to Atlanta. However, have you seen the housing market here? We have far too many houses sitting for sale for months in the metro and outlying areas as it is. We can stop building homes for a while and still be able to house plenty more people migrating to the area.

Building more homes and strip malls (which is Gwinnett's modus operandi) certainly isn't helping when these resources can be used instead to develop an infrastructure. Hell, our highways can't even hold all the traffic as it is.

Maybe that's not how events will progress but it makes sense to me.

[Clove]

Well, unfortunately for you, case law has said that it's his intent to pray to a Christian God that makes it a violation of the Establishment Clause, not whether there's Hindus or Buddhists (or God forbid, atheists) around. It's been said that this is exclusive in nature, and looks to the strong proselytizing affect and essential goal of two of the world's largest religions, Christianity and Islam.

-TheE-

Gee. Well if case law supports your opinion it must be correct.

Why do we go around and around with this E? I think I made it clear that I disagree with that general interpretation of separation and the arguments. I have a general understanding of the prevailing case law- I think it's wrong.

If you want to have a point by point discussion about our respective opinions over what separation of church and state is or should be, great. But leave the case law out of it. That merely illustrates that others in the courts share your opinions. We already know courts can be wrong.

[Clove]

Don't blame me because your post was deserving of ridicule.

Hey, if you can't defend your own statement that only makes you deserving of ridicule.

And have you noticed your fellow Georgians think you're full of shit too?

[chillmonster]

I think I'd prefer the raindance, actually.

He's not making anyone do anything. It's voluntary. Whose life is actually being wasted if people want to participate?

How would you like to be the only person on the governor's staff to sit at his/her desk and work while everyone went out to pray? This was more the NFL version of voluntary.

[CrystalTears]

Still, so what? Since when do workers agree with everything their employers asks of them? I'm just saying that I don't see the big deal you do as far asking people to pray. You know, because government people work so hard that they can't take out 10 minutes from their internet surfing to humor their boss. ;)

[Martaigne]

Re: the whole pray for rain thing... this is actually relevant.

Thousands of pamphlets were created to inform the public of the pray-for-rain event.

My wife and I went to dinner the other night, and in the inane small talk one encounters with their server, discovered that he didn't even know Atlanta was in the midst of a drought. Why? He didn't have cable, a radio in his car (it was stolen a few months previously), and didn't read the newspaper.

Why couldn't some of those taxpayer dollars that went to printing the pray-for-rain flyers have gone to public informational pamphlets that detail ways a household can conserve water? Just a thought.

[chillmonster]

I understand and concede the point that you can't stop people from moving to Atlanta. However, have you seen the housing market here? We have far too many houses sitting for sale for months in the metro and outlying areas as it is. We can stop building homes for a while and still be able to house plenty more people migrating to the area.

Building more homes and strip malls (which is Gwinnett's modus operandi) certainly isn't helping when these resources can be used instead to develop an infrastructure. Hell, our highways can't even hold all the traffic as it is.

Maybe that's not how events will progress but it makes sense to me.

I'm not saying your wrong, but where are the Governor's infrastructure proposals? What are his plans? Where is the panel he's created to examine our options? After all this time, I still haven't heard anything, but he can take people from work to violate the constitution, and pray on the steps of the capital building. I think it's unacceptable.

[CrystalTears]

Granted, pamphlets would be better served to inform the public of conservation methods.

[Martaigne]

The shortage of water has drained your sense of humor. Pity. :tongue:

Sarchasm, sweetie.

[Clove]

Why couldn't some of those taxpayer dollars that went to printing the pray-for-rain flyers have gone to public informational pamphlets that detail ways a household can conserve water? Just a thought.

Heh. And if I saw one of those "pray for rain" pamphlets I would thought "huh, we must be low". Just sayin'... :P

You are correct waste of tax money- just like a hundred others I'm sure.

[TheEschaton]

Fair enough Clove. I disagree with lots of case law myself.

However, this is the question (and it hasn't been answered by case law at all):

How do you protect people's rights under the anti-Establishment clause, when the Free Exercise clause says people should be allowed to freely exercise, such exercise possibly requiring its adherents to form a religious state or be religious in public when others don't necessarily wannt it?

There are limits on both anti-Establishment and Free Exercise, but the restrictions on the latter have been much more strict. The Religious Restoration Act or whatever the hell they're calling it now created a constitutional conundrum - it carved out exceptions, and SCOTUS in Gonzales v. UDV said that because there are some exceptions, you have to make room for all exceptions....essentially rendering any limits on Free Exercise null, and, infringing on Establishment. That's obviously unconstitutional on practicability terms, and I'm surprised that 13 years later no one has chosen to address it.

That being said, when Free Exercise infringes on the rights of those protected under anti-Establishment, I tend to favor the rights of the collective whole - part of the price of society (the social contract) is a sacrifice, or restriction, on individual freedoms for the good of society. That tends to be the socialist in me, though - I just don't believe this extreme, rugged individualistic, selfish society has a place in civil society. Respect and dignity for the individual, obviously belongs, but rugged individualism is failing.

-TheE-

[chillmonster]

Hey, if you can't defend your own statement that only makes you deserving of ridicule.

And have you noticed your fellow Georgians think you're full of shit too?

"Answer the fucking question, asshole," isn't something I believe deserves a serious reply. At least my fellow Georgians can discuss the topics with civility and not simply throw trollish insults.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by 875000
I am a resident of Georgia (Cobb County, to be exact)

Lay down the law nightstick style Big Bossman

[Clove]

BTW. You have an answer for my question yet Lashmonster?

[Martaigne]

I'm not saying your wrong, but where are the Governor's infrastructure proposals? What are his plans? Where is the panel he's created to examine our options? After all this time, I still haven't heard anything, but he can take people from work to violate the constitution, and pray on the steps of the capital building. I think it's unacceptable.

Even if we do build another reservior, it's unlikely we'll see the results for several years at a minimum (a more accurate estimate is 10-15 years). A project of that scale will require federal aid and funding. I caught wind of this on a radio show I listen to in the mornings, but haven't heard anything since.

Too bad we need water NOW.

[Clove]

"Answer the fucking question, asshole," isn't something I believe deserves a serious reply. At least my fellow Georgians can discuss the topics with civility and not simply throw trollish insults.

Hey if you'd answered the politely stated question in the first place instead ignoring it and responding with insult, I never would have demanded that you (asshole) answer (the fucking) question.

You had the chance to discuss the topic with me civilly. You elected not to and I'm responding likewise. Answer the fucking question or just STFU. If you can't explain your own statement, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[Clove]

Fair enough Clove. I disagree with lots of case law myself.

However, this is the question (and it hasn't been answered by case law at all):

How do you protect people's rights under the anti-Establishment clause, when the Free Exercise clause says people should be allowed to freely exercise, such exercise possibly requiring its adherents to form a religious state or be religious in public when others don't necessarily wannt it?

There are limits on both anti-Establishment and Free Exercise, but the restrictions on the latter have been much more strict. The Religious Restoration Act or whatever the hell they're calling it now created a constitutional conundrum - it carved out exceptions, and SCOTUS in Gonzales v. UDV said that because there are some exceptions, you have to make room for all exceptions....essentially rendering any limits on Free Exercise null, and, infringing on Establishment. That's obviously unconstitutional on practicability terms, and I'm surprised that 13 years later no one has chosen to address it.

That being said, when Free Exercise infringes on the rights of those protected under anti-Establishment, I tend to favor the rights of the collective whole - part of the price of society (the social contract) is a sacrifice, or restriction, on individual freedoms for the good of society. That tends to be the socialist in me, though - I just don't believe this extreme, rugged individualistic, selfish society has a place in civil society. Respect and dignity for the individual, obviously belongs, but rugged individualism is failing.

-TheE-

Bingo. Our final difference of opinions rest solely on different values essentially. We place the balance on different sides.

I don't believe the public is harmed by faith displays of public officials or held on public property as long as no specific faith is mentioned and no specific faith is prohibited from participation.

And on that we can agree to disagree.

[Martaigne]

But we all know that because we're in the conservative right Christian bible belt south that we're gonna be a-prayin' ta Jeesuhs!

Even if it's not said or implied.




* this post contains intended sarcasm

[chillmonster]

Hey if you'd answered the politely stated question in the first place instead ignoring it and responding with insult, I never would have demanded that you (asshole) answer (the fucking) question.

You had the chance to discuss the topic with me civilly. You elected not to and I'm responding likewise. Answer the fucking question or just STFU. If you can't explain your own statement, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

http://rofl.wheresthebeef.co.uk/Pot%20Kettle%20Black.jpg

[Clove]

http://rofl.wheresthebeef.co.uk/Pot%20Kettle%20Black.jpg

Still no answer then?

[Martaigne]

I like how this perfectly reasonable topic of debate has devolved into a name-calling contest.

[chillmonster]

I like how this perfectly reasonable topic of debate has devolved into a name-calling contest.

Me too. I have no problem disagreeing without being disagreeable. You only have to take a look at Clove's post history and you'll have your explanation.

[CrystalTears]

Me too. I have no problem disagreeing without being disagreeable. You only have to take a look at Clove's post history and you'll have your explanation.


http://rofl.wheresthebeef.co.uk/Pot%20Kettle%20Black.jpg

Nuff said.

[chillmonster]

Nuff said.

CT, check out my history and see if I've ever insulted someone unprovoked. I really have no problem at all with dissagreement.

[CrystalTears]

And yet here, he asked you a question and instead of answering, you called him a cheerleader and that he can't think for himself.

[Clove]

Can you expand on your logic (or lack thereof). Why wouldn't increasing the water supply (even temporarily) NOT be a part of the solution. Given nearly a year of reserves with your present supply and assuming over the next year measures are taken to better manage your water resources- wouldn't increasing your supply temporarily help extend your reserves and possibly give Georgia enough time to correct the problem?

It may be moot since the river sources do need to be shared with the region; but your statement makes little sense to me.


What the hell does that have to do with his publicity stunt?

Clove, you're a cheerleader who obviously can't think for himself, so you'd do better to stick with cheering for Gan or PB or 875. The entire point is this has been going on for months and we should have been making progress toward a long term solution the entire time. The fact that we still have no idea how we're going to prevent this from happening in the future says a lot.

Chillmonster, we don't even have to leave this thread to find an example. Yes I insult people provoked, unprovoked for all sorts of reasons. None of this changes the fact that I asked you a simple, direct question which you ignored and responded to with insults.

You simply have no defense.

[chillmonster]

And yet here, he asked you a question and instead of answering, you called him a cheerleader and that he can't think for himself.


And this is why I call him Chillash. Nice post 875000. Way to make a dumbass assumption about someone you don't know Chillmonster.

Not to mention the fact that Clove has made a habbit of searching my post and to toss insults while never really adding much to the conversation.

[Clove]

Not to mention the fact that Clove has made a habbit of searching my post and to toss insults while never really adding much to the conversation.

Nevermind the fact that you called 875000 a Googler who didn't know what he was talking about and didn't live in the region. You got caught with your hand in the cookie jar. You were being an insulting dumbass (to 875000) and I called a spade a spade.

[Martaigne]

Remember this guy?

<"}}}><

Please help Atlanta. Save the Don't-Give-A-Fuck Fish. Send us water.

[chillmonster]

Nevermind the fact that you called 875000 a Googler who didn't know what he was talking about and didn't live in the region. You got caught with your hand in the cookie jar. You were being an insulting dumbass (to 875000) and I called a spade a spade.

That's a personal insult? Way to google information? Take a look at my tone with 875 and the tone with you. I know you're trying to muddy the watters, but please stop trying to equate yourself with people who come with ideas and not with insults.

[Clove]

That's a personal insult? Way to google information? Take a look at my tone with 875 and the tone with you. I know you're trying to muddy the watters, but please stop trying to equate yourself with people who come with ideas and not with insults.

No. It's a dumbass assumption (which is what I called it). And being told you don't know what you're talking about because you're not affected by the problem (when you are) is insulting. You made an insulting assumption. Unfortunately, you're tapdancing. When asked directly to answer the question you were presented with you evade, evade and evade. Your reason? You don't owe me one because you don't like how I talk to you in other posts.

Sorry. You lose.

You made a statement. I asked you to explain your reasoning behind it. You failed.

[Martaigne]

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/061110/061110_trainderail_hmed_5a.h2.jpg

[Parkbandit]

At least my fellow Georgians can discuss the topics with civility and not simply throw trollish insults.

LOL.. if I was at home, I would insert the "HYPOCRITE RED ALERT" right about here.

I love pussies who love to dish out the insults.. but heaven forbid you insult them.. the whole "can't we discuss topics with civility and not insults" line comes out and makes me laugh.

And coming from you.. it made me laugh a little bit harder.

Did you need me to post a wall of quotes of you insulting people for you to buy a clue? Let me know.. I'm bored.

[Sean of the Thread]

Move back to Nigeria where problems are handled instantly!

[Martaigne]

LOL.. if I was at home, I would insert the "HYPOCRITE RED ALERT" right about here.

I love pussies who love to dish out the insults.. but heaven forbid you insult them.. the whole "can't we discuss topics with civility and not insults" line comes out and makes me laugh.

And coming from you.. it made me laugh a little bit harder.

Did you need me to post a wall of quotes of you insulting people for you to buy a clue? Let me know.. I'm bored.

QFMFT

Oh wait, does this make you a cheerleader who can't think for himself?

[Parkbandit]

And please.. anyone who is using the separation of church and state phrase in this case has no idea what that even means.

And I'm a very vocal atheist.. I think the idea that I should believe an alien came here, made our planet and instantly put people here (well, within 7 days) and that he/she/it controls everything in our day to day lives is retarded.

A friend of mine (very religious) ended up with breast cancer and sent out this prayer email asking us to say a prayer to God to get her through it. When she did get through it.. she thanked God and Jesus.

So let me get this straight.. there's a God up there that picks and chooses who gets cancer.. he puts you through hell, while doctors try to cure you.. and when you are cured, you thank him? WTF! I would be PISSED off if someone gave me cancer, made me go through months of treatments and finally I was cured after losing half my breast and all my hair... all for his amusement?

[Martaigne]

Oh, and joining the Don't-Give-A-Fuck-Fish...

http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/MA-FlamingHypocrite-Card.gif

How's that PB?

[Parkbandit]

Oh, and joining the Don't-Give-A-Fuck-Fish...

http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/MA-FlamingHypocrite-Card.gif

How's that PB?

It's no red hypocrite alert pic.. but I just saved it :P

And by agreeing with me.. you realize you just became one of my many groupies who can't think for themselves and only post after I post something hateful.


Welcome to the Wolf Pack!

[chillmonster]

LOL.. if I was at home, I would insert the "HYPOCRITE RED ALERT" right about here.

I love pussies who love to dish out the insults.. but heaven forbid you insult them.. the whole "can't we discuss topics with civility and not insults" line comes out and makes me laugh.

And coming from you.. it made me laugh a little bit harder.

Did you need me to post a wall of quotes of you insulting people for you to buy a clue? Let me know.. I'm bored.

You haven't a leg to stand on when it comes to this topic. However, since you like playing detective so much, I challenge you to find a post where I came in insulting someone who hadn't made a habit of insulting me or insulted me prior to that on the same thread.

It's a MB, so I know it's not that serious, but my instinct is to attack when I'm attacked, especially when it's someone who just piggybacks on others' insults and ideas.

[Martaigne]

It's no red hypocrite alert pic.. but I just saved it :P

And by agreeing with me.. you realize you just became one of my many groupies who can't think for themselves and only post after I post something hateful.


Welcome to the Wolf Pack!

Oh noez, I got labeled on an intarweb forum!

<"}}}><

:P

[Clove]

However... I challenge you to...

just answer my fucking question.

[chillmonster]

No. It's a dumbass assumption (which is what I called it). And being told you don't know what you're talking about because you're not affected by the problem (when you are) is insulting. You made an insulting assumption. Unfortunately, you're tapdancing. When asked directly to answer the question you were presented with you evade, evade and evade. Your reason? You don't owe me one because you don't like how I talk to you in other posts.

Sorry. You lose.

You made a statement. I asked you to explain your reasoning behind it. You failed.

Let's review. You said I don't answer your questions. I told you why I didn't take your post seriously, then you said I started insulting you unprovoked. I countered that then you said I insulted 875 unprovoked. I shot that one down and now you're back to I don't answer your question. Are we going to do this dance all over again?

Let's skip the dance and get to Fuck you, your shitty logic, and your stupid questions.

And if you really read my posts, you'd see that the question has already been answered even if it wasn't addressed to you.

[Warriorbird]

Arguing because of passionate beliefs makes you look weak. It's only worth doing if you're having fun. Are you having fun, chillmonster?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I really don't get what the big problem is. Most of the solutions, as has been pointed out earlier, are pretty infeasible or they're gonna take some time to start working. Why not pray in the interim? You can get all the help you need in this situation, IMO, and nothing is really lost by the Governor praying. It'd be an issue of separation of Church and State if it was infringing on everyone's ability to worship/practice whatever religious views they have.

[Sean of the Thread]

Let's review. You said I don't answer your questions. I told you why I didn't take your post seriously, then you said I started insulting you unprovoked. I countered that then you said I insulted 875 unprovoked. I shot that one down and now you're back to I don't answer your question. Are we going to do this dance all over again?


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Japgross/super_retard_stfu.jpg

[CrystalTears]

I ask people to join me in prayer that chillmonster STFU.

[chillmonster]

Arguing because of passionate beliefs makes you look weak. It's only worth doing if you're having fun. Are you having fun, chillmonster?

Actually, I like to hear contrary opinions even if you sometimes have to wade through MB filth to get to them.

[Clove]

I ask people to join me in prayer that chillmonster STFU.

.

[chillmonster]

I ask people to join me in prayer that chillmonster STFU.

That will only happen after 40 days and 40 nights or rain.

[CrystalTears]

Arguing because of passionate beliefs makes you look weak. It's only worth doing if you're having fun. Are you having fun, chillmonster?
On a totally off-topic note, who's the transvestite in your avatar?

[Martaigne]

On a totally off-topic note, who's the transvestite in your avatar?

We haven't been on-topic since like page 3, no worries.

[Skeeter]

On a totally off-topic note, who's the transvestite in your avatar?

I assumed it was WB

[DeV]

I think we all need a moment of silence. My two cents.

[Warriorbird]

My mouth's not that purty, Skeeter.

It's a friend of mine who decided she wanted to dress up as Dog the Bounty Hunter's wife, CT.

[Gan]

You can be a faithful person working in government. However, faith is a personal process, not a public one. You cannot be a representative of the state, and use state assets, including state rooms and funds for the event, for religious purposes, generic or not. This has been addressed by SCOTUS many times in general-prayer-in-school cases. Mainly, you have to look at the intent behind the general prayer - certainly the gov'r of GA wouldn't be okay with a Hindu puja or a Buddhist incantation - his intent is to pray to a Christian god, no matter how general he says it.

(If you haven't figured it out, I'm a strict seperatist despite being religious.)

-TheE-
Good Post.


Jesus only parts water and makes wine from water. He doesn't make water. He can't help us.
Jesus walks on water and makes wine from it. Moses is the one who does the parting.


You can't stop people from moving to Atlanta. As long as they keep coming, the need for housing (and water) will continue to grow. Asking the city to stop growing is obviously not the answer, so we need a long term solution. I still haven't seen anything long term from the Governor's office or heard about anything in the works. If you have, please let me know.
I bet people will stop moving to Atlanta when you guys fucking run out of water. :lol:


Still, so what? Since when do workers agree with everything their employers asks of them? I'm just saying that I don't see the big deal you do as far asking people to pray. You know, because government people work so hard that they can't take out 10 minutes from their internet surfing to humor their boss.
QFT


Re: the whole pray for rain thing... this is actually relevant.

Thousands of pamphlets were created to inform the public of the pray-for-rain event.

My wife and I went to dinner the other night, and in the inane small talk one encounters with their server, discovered that he didn't even know Atlanta was in the midst of a drought. Why? He didn't have cable, a radio in his car (it was stolen a few months previously), and didn't read the newspaper.

Why couldn't some of those taxpayer dollars that went to printing the pray-for-rain flyers have gone to public informational pamphlets that detail ways a household can conserve water? Just a thought.
QFT x 2


Granted, pamphlets would be better served to inform the public of conservation methods.
QFT x 3


LOL.. if I was at home, I would insert the "HYPOCRITE RED ALERT" right about here.

I love pussies who love to dish out the insults.. but heaven forbid you insult them.. the whole "can't we discuss topics with civility and not insults" line comes out and makes me laugh.

And coming from you.. it made me laugh a little bit harder.

Did you need me to post a wall of quotes of you insulting people for you to buy a clue? Let me know.. I'm bored.
Fucking cheerleader.
:rah:


Oh, and joining the Don't-Give-A-Fuck-Fish...

http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/MA-FlamingHypocrite-Card.gif

How's that PB?
Saving this. (good one)


I ask people to join me in prayer that chillmonster STFU.
WINNER 111!!!one

[Skeeter]

that's really not a dude? sorry. :shrug:

[Sean of the Thread]

I thought the whole point of dressing up was to appear to be something else?

A skank dressed up to be a skank?

Is that drew2 in the back row?

[Warriorbird]

Not a dude. Compared to yourself, Sean2...not a skank, either. Drew's a little weightier, gayer, and more Hispanic than me these days...much like you (cept the Hispanic bit as far as I know).

[Sean of the Thread]

ROFL YOU CALLED ME FAT

[Warriorbird]

Yeah. The gay was a given...considering your obsession.

:)

[Drew2]

MAN I'M SO FAT.

Also, I don't look hispanic at all.

I'll take the gayer as a compliment though.

[Warriorbird]

I hear Sean2's into the bear scene.

[Clove]

Not a dude. Compared to yourself, Sean2...not a skank, either. Drew's a little weightier, gayer, and more Hispanic than me these days...much like you (cept the Hispanic bit as far as I know).

Is that Jim from The Office in the background?

[CrystalTears]

Is that Jim from The Office in the background?
He really DOES know a lot of people. :lol:

[Sean of the Thread]

I hear Sean2's into the bear scene.

I <3 drew2











in a non gay way.

[Parkbandit]

You haven't a leg to stand on when it comes to this topic. However, since you like playing detective so much, I challenge you to find a post where I came in insulting someone who hadn't made a habit of insulting me or insulted me prior to that on the same thread.

It's a MB, so I know it's not that serious, but my instinct is to attack when I'm attacked, especially when it's someone who just piggybacks on others' insults and ideas.


I'll take that challenge. Let me get home (I'm in my truck right now.. stealing ur bandwidth) and I'll see what we can do. I'll remind you of another holier than thou stated the same thing... what, a week ago? I'm sure once I post some quotes of doing that which you are now crying about.. you will either give an excuse (you were on your period) or just not post anything.

I should be home in about 2-3 hours. We'll take a peek.

[chillmonster]

I'll take that challenge. Let me get home (I'm in my truck right now.. stealing ur bandwidth) and I'll see what we can do. I'll remind you of another holier than thou stated the same thing... what, a week ago? I'm sure once I post some quotes of doing that which you are now crying about.. you will either give an excuse (you were on your period) or just not post anything.

I should be home in about 2-3 hours. We'll take a peek.

Go ahead. And please have integrity enough to not misrepresent the truth and to say that you were wrong when you don't find anything.

[Stanley Burrell]

My grandmother collects a ton of Native American art, and I used to always play with the leather buffalo-headed rainstick of beaded doom when I'd go over to her house on the weekends. But the problem was that I wasn't supposed to be playing with the leather buffalo-headed rainstick of Hopi doom, SO I GOT MY ASS WHOOPED.

Seriously though, that thing is so frickin' awesome. I will continue to get my ASS WHOOPED until the age of ParkBandit having trying to fling around some totally awesome million dollar rain artifact. It has the shaky beads in it and makes a Godly clatter. Totally cool, man. You need to witness its awesomeness first hand or else it seems like a lot of Stanley babble. And even if you did, it would still be a lot of Stanley babble. I'd probably feel bad for you, too.


Purdue has previously ... asked President George W. Bush for help.

Yeah he has.

[Clove]

...the Army Corps have recalculated that we had almost 300 days of water and not the 80-120 in your outdated article. Therefore, temporarily lifting of federal requirements wouldn't solve the problem.

Back on topic. Agreed temporarily lifting Federal requirements won't solve the problem by itself. But it would help the problem. The governor has pursued this option ergo the governor is doing more than just praying (in just that one example).

I got tired of waiting for you to expand on your statement Chill. Sorry.

I am still interested in why you think that because your water reserve is larger that restricting water from leaving the state is less helpful. I suppose you'd rather just tapdance though.

[Tsa`ah]

As it was pointed out to you, there's only so much the State can do since there are federal laws, regulations, and entities that regulate the water more so than the state.

I'm not so much concerned that the guy called for prayer in an effort to end the drought, but that he used his office, station, and facilities as Gov for the effort.

In the end it's not that big of a deal. In my opinion it was incredibly moronic and really prompting a stare down with the constitution. That being said, it really didn't violate any laws, it just showed the elected leader throwing up his hands and giving up.

There would probably be less of an issue had he gone to a reservation and hired some aboriginals to perform a rain dance.

[Sean of the Thread]

you guys are digging to deep.

I'm sure the people of faith loved the prayer.

[Tsa`ah]

Jesus walks on water and makes wine from it. Moses is the one who does the parting.

Moses was also unable to finish the exodus because he "brought forth water from the rock". God said "bitch ... that was me".

Maybe they do need a Moses.

[Clove]

As it was pointed out to you, there's only so much the State can do since there are federal laws, regulations, and entities that regulate the water more so than the state.

That it's a federal decision isn't in question and I stated that much. All you're saying by is that solution requires out of state cooperation. I'm asking "why wouldn't it help" and "why doesn't pursuing that help qualify as action".

[Gan]

Moses was also unable to finish the exodus because he "brought forth water from the rock". God said "bitch ... that was me".

Maybe they do need a Moses.

point taken

:lol:

[Stanley Burrell]

I'd prefer not assigning attributes of higher forces to any of the Abrahamic religions.

Since this was a raindance. Prayer. Pagan act. We need to just assume that the Wendigo are being worshipped and will soon be summoned in order to cannibalize the Camellia-blossomed countryside. Bitch, yes.

[Tsa`ah]

That it's a federal decision isn't in question and I stated that much. All you're saying by is that solution requires out of state cooperation. I'm asking "why wouldn't it help" and "why doesn't pursuing that help qualify as action".

I wasn't responding to you ... I just proof read in a different window and posted without quoting chill.

Anything at this point would help ... outside of using public office, station, and facilities for prayer. You don't deny someone wandering the desert a drink of water if you have it just because when you part ways they're going to die anyway ... because you just don't know.

[diethx]

If you lived in GA it would piss you off too.

I live in Atlanta, and it doesn't piss me off.

If I can deal with there being some damn church or another on every fucking corner of this shithole city, one prayer isn't really gonna get me all irritated.

[Gan]

Go ahead. And please have integrity enough to not misrepresent the truth and to say that you were wrong when you don't find anything.

[delete] [delete] [delete] [delete]


:lol:

[RichardCranium]

I'll bet a c note there's some mass deletions going on right now.

[RichardCranium]

[delete] [delete] [delete] [delete]


:lol:

Doh.

[Martaigne]

Jesus walks on water and makes wine from it. Moses is the one who does the parting.

My bad. I'm not really a student of the bible.

I apologize. I was wrong and I stand corrected.

See? It's not so hard.

[Clove]

My bad. I'm not really a student of the bible.

I apologize. I was wrong and I stand corrected.

See? It's not so hard.

That reminds me. What's bottled water going for these days down there M?

[Martaigne]

The prices are still normal, but being the enterprising individual that I am, I went to Costco and unloaded their entire stock of bottled water to sell for $5 per bottle when we finally run out.

:P

[Latrinsorm]

"Prayer" is a generic function of nearly every faith (I can't think of one it isn't but Latrin probably knows one). It would be semantical to distinguish a faith as prayerless. Everyone has prayerful behavior.
certainly the gov'r of GA wouldn't be okay with a Hindu puja or a Buddhist incantationThe same way Rudy wasn't ok with any non-Catholic faiths being present at the 9/11 ceremonies?
I tend to favor the rights of the collective whole - part of the price of society (the social contract) is a sacrifice, or restriction, on individual freedoms for the good of society.A society where no one is allowed to express their religion because they might offend someone is what we should be shooting for? Really?
How would you like to be the only person on the governor's staff to sit at his/her desk and work while everyone went out to pray?How'd you like to be the only person out there praying? Obviously the solution is that all government offices must have exactly the same number of every constituent faith so nobody feels left out.
Moses was also unable to finish the exodus because he "brought forth water from the rock". Because he hit it a bunch of times rather than just talking to it. OT God was a bit of a stickler!

[TheEschaton]

A society where no one is allowed to express their religion because they might offend someone is what we should be shooting for? Really?

A pluralistic society which dictates the freedom of all to practice and not have their gov't force a certain religion on them is something we should shoot for, to respect and acknowledge the validity of all beliefs.

The minute a REPRESENTATIVE OF THE GOVERNMENT, in a manner which is PUBLIC, or USING PUBLIC ASSETS, espouses religious belief, it's not a matter whether someone MIGHT be offended, but a matter of the government espousing a religious belief which necessarily excludes others, as some (most) [all] religions believe in the absolute truth of itself.

This most certainly does NOT say you cannot believe, and that you cannot express that belief PRIVATELY.

-TheE-

[Skeeter]

The prices are still normal, but being the enterprising individual that I am, I went to Costco and unloaded their entire stock of bottled water to sell for $5 per bottle when we finally run out.

:P

Price gouging is a crime!

[CrystalTears]

And no one was forcing anyone to pray according to a certain faith. It was just a collection of prayer, which means that Christians, Muslims, Jews and whomever else would be praying in their own fashion, in their own faith, for guidance and help. I really don't see anyone impeding anyone of anything except a few minutes of work.

[Clove]

The prices are still normal, but being the enterprising individual that I am, I went to Costco and unloaded their entire stock of bottled water to sell for $5 per bottle when we finally run out.

:P

Just let me know when I should rent a truck, fill her up with yummy New England water, and head on down for a slice of peach pie. We'll split the profits.

[Clove]

Price gouging is a crime!

It's okay. We prayed about it first.

[Stanley Burrell]

And no one was forcing anyone to pray according to a certain faith. It was just a collection of prayer, which means that Christians, Muslims, Jews and whomever else would be praying in their own fashion, in their own faith, for guidance and help. I really don't see anyone impeding anyone of anything except a few minutes of work.
.

Alabama

[Tsa`ah]

And no one was forcing anyone to pray according to a certain faith. It was just a collection of prayer, which means that Christians, Muslims, Jews and whomever else would be praying in their own fashion, in their own faith, for guidance and help. I really don't see anyone impeding anyone of anything except a few minutes of work.

While the idea of a public official calling for prayer in passing isn't a big deal, this is an entirely different situation.

Imagine if Reagan or Carter used their time in office to call for mass prayer, used the White House as a station to launch said prayer, and public resources to do it.

That is the issue.

[CrystalTears]

And I'm just saying that I personally don't have a problem with even the president saying "let's all pray". The majority of the country has faith in one religion or another. If the athiests or just non-religious folk wish to picket the prayer meeting, fine by me too. Freedom of religion/speech for all.

[Warriorbird]

Of course you don't have a problem with it. Why would you? Would you have a problem if he lead the country in praying to Mecca? Would most of the populace?

[CrystalTears]

Again, you're choosing a religion to follow, and I'm not stating that. I'm saying as long as a particular religion isn't mentioned and are free to pray with your own faith, it shouldn't be a big issue.

[Parkbandit]

Go ahead. And please have integrity enough to not misrepresent the truth and to say that you were wrong when you don't find anything.

First of all.. you using the word "integrity" is fucking classic. Speaking of which, am I limited to Chillmonster alone or can I use the several aliases you've used in the past month?

I'm now home.. gonna grab a shower and a snack.. I'll be back.

[Stanley Burrell]

Again, you're choosing a religion to follow, and I'm not stating that. I'm saying as long as a particular religion isn't mentioned and are free to pray with your own faith, it shouldn't be a big issue.

Opening ceremonies will now replace "Our Lord and Father" with "Cthulhu."

And even though Geowwwgia is less hillbillier than Alabama, fuck the 99-point-repeating-9 percent opportunism at political play here.

[Warriorbird]

Again, you're choosing a religion to follow, and I'm not stating that. I'm saying as long as a particular religion isn't mentioned and are free to pray with your own faith, it shouldn't be a big issue.

Everybody totally wants religion with their government.

[Clove]

Of course you don't have a problem with it. Why would you? Would you have a problem if he lead the country in praying to Mecca? Would most of the populace?

If he did that I feel safe in assuming that:

1 He wouldn't be in office next term
2 Society wouldn't suffer terribly from it

Maybe my opinions/feelings are a reflection of being raised in a multi-faith family; but like CT I just don't get that worked up about this particular issue. Until someone requires me to attend a certain church or temple to get a driver's license, vote, run for office, attend public school, participate in a town meeting etc. I'm not squawking.

I do understand and see your point. I just feel that it goes against our goals as a religiously tolerant society to attempt to crush every public expression of faith even where public officials and resources are concerned. I am more comfortable with generic all-inclusive ceremonies (like prayer meetings) in those circumstances.

[Stanley Burrell]

Everybody totally wants religion with their government.

You can't be too pedantic about that statement. And the blatant religious divide in America within the last seven years is pretty much everyone's fault for letting a few douchebags behind Oval Office closed doors seep into their own personal propagation. Including my own.

I wish politics' "caring" about me wasn't a reciprocated relationship.

[Clove]

Speaking of which, am I limited to Chillmonster alone or can I use the several aliases you've used in the past month?


Don't disturb him PB. He's busy shredding.

[Parkbandit]

Welp, that didn't take too long:


Here's a guy who obviously hasn't examined this issue at all, but even in his ignorance he still finds a way to form an opinion.

For you bleeding hearts out there: pass on hugging a tree and hug a Republican. He's either a complete fucking moron, a closet homosexual who's living a lie, or a real conservative who's heartbroken that the first two have taken over his party.

It was a response to my post... notice not a single insult directed at Chillmonster?


Personally, if we're going to do "free" healthcare for everyone, we should also do free meals, free housing and free transportation. And that's just to begin with... after that, we should let the individual decide on whether or not they want to work for a living... and if they pursue other dreams, we should subsidize their efforts.

Hug a tree today.. because tomorrow they will all be gone.

Thanks :)

The thread can be found here:

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=26904


I do hope you will have the integrity to apologize to everyone on this forum for being a hypocrite and in the future.. when someone insults you, please don't play Mr. Innocent Victim.. because that role doesn't suit you well.

[Latrinsorm]

The minute a REPRESENTATIVE OF THE GOVERNMENT, in a manner which is PUBLIC, or USING PUBLIC ASSETS, espouses religious belief, it's not a matter whether someone MIGHT be offended, but a matter of the government espousing a religious belief which necessarily excludes others, as some (most) [all] religions believe in the absolute truth of itself.A religion can simultaneously hold its own self-truth and pluralism, and most of the big ones do.
This most certainly does NOT say you cannot believe, and that you cannot express that belief PRIVATELY.Not that I'm comparing the two, but I thought I would point out how this is similar to the "you can be gay so long as you never talk to anyone about it or express it outwardly in any way" scheme. Doesn't work out too well!

Public assets, fine, whatever. You're treading dangerously close to lying (even if by omission) if we want our representatives to pretend they're areligious in public, though. A person can very easily be of a specific religion and present an environment tolerant and accepting of other religious choices (whether denominational or atheistic), so why insist upon this faux MPD?
Opening ceremonies will now replace "Our Lord and Father" with "Cthulhu."That doesn't count because no one knows how to pronounce it. "Let us bow our heads and pray to.. uh.. Ki-.. Kitha-.. See-thoo? SOME GUY, OK!!"

[Warriorbird]

Cthulhu-Hillary in '08!

[Stanley Burrell]

That doesn't count because no one knows how to pronounce it. "Let us bow our heads and pray to.. uh.. Ki-.. Kitha-.. See-thoo? SOME GUY, OK!!"

My favorite thing is how when I recite a prayer in a congregation and there's this monotonous drone, and I don't know word-for-word Holy Scripture, that I basically either lip-sync or improvise. Usually a bit of both.

Cthulhu's pronunciation, and especially lack thereof, could be the Britney Spears and/or Milly Vanilly gap bridging deity of modern religion that will address the unspoken, poorly spoken, and misspoken texts.

That's all I've got :blush:

[Tsa`ah]

Again, you're choosing a religion to follow, and I'm not stating that. I'm saying as long as a particular religion isn't mentioned and are free to pray with your own faith, it shouldn't be a big issue.

It's not an issue of specific religions, it's any religion.

It's why many people can agree, despite political polarity, about Carter and Reagan. They acknowledged and respected the divide between government and religion.

[Warriorbird]

Admittedly...public prayer bothers me less than stuff like this.


I.D. will also be striking back in "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," a pro-I.D. documentary, to be released in February. Featuring conservative writer and political commentator Ben Stein, it portrays I.D. proponents as a group of iconoclastic firebrand scientists with the guts to go after the dogmatic Darwinists who have, the I.D.ers say, grown lazy and corrupt sitting atop a monopolistic theory with zero tolerance for dissent, within or outside of their ranks.

Stein told the New York Times that Darwin may well have been onto something with his theory of evolution, but that it is isn't up to explaining the origins and diversity of life on its own. Plus, he thinks Darwinism leads to racism and genocide. If Stein had his way, he said, the documentary would have been called "From Darwin to Hitler."

[Latrinsorm]

It's not an issue of specific religions, it's any religion.The only reason that would matter was if atheism (or any other nominally non-religious belief) wasn't itself a religious choice analogous to Christianity, Islam, etc.

[Warriorbird]

Your commentary will only matter when you stop trotting that out.

[Gan]

Welp, that didn't take too long:



It was a response to my post... notice not a single insult directed at Chillmonster?



The thread can be found here:

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=26904


I do hope you will have the integrity to apologize to everyone on this forum for being a hypocrite and in the future.. when someone insults you, please don't play Mr. Innocent Victim.. because that role doesn't suit you well.


"when the shark bites.... with its teeth dear... it just make them... pearly whiiiiiite."

:lol:

[chillmonster]

The thread can be found here:

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=26904


I do hope you will have the integrity to apologize to everyone on this forum for being a hypocrite and in the future.. when someone insults you, please don't play Mr. Innocent Victim.. because that role doesn't suit you well.

You tried REALLY hard, didn't you? And this is the best you can do? Posting ALL of the posts that establish YOUR history of unprovoked attacks against me beforehand is simply unnecessary. I won't bother to ask you to find something real, because we both know it doesn't exist.

But keep up the great detective work. I know people have to feel safe knowing that you're on duty.


You haven't a leg to stand on when it comes to this topic. However, since you like playing detective so much, I challenge you to find a post where I came in insulting someone who hadn't made a habit of insulting me or insulted me prior to that on the same thread.

[chillmonster]

Back on topic. Agreed temporarily lifting Federal requirements won't solve the problem by itself. But it would help the problem. The governor has pursued this option ergo the governor is doing more than just praying (in just that one example).

I got tired of waiting for you to expand on your statement Chill. Sorry.

I am still interested in why you think that because your water reserve is larger that restricting water from leaving the state is less helpful. I suppose you'd rather just tapdance though.

My problem isn't that he has tried to temporarily lift the Federal requirements; it's that he hasn't done more. The Governor sued the Army Corps of Engineers then asked the Federal Government them to lift those requirements when we thought the situation was much more dire. Now we have almost a year (instead of the initial 2 month calculation) to come up with a solution, but I haven't seen anything else.

I was expecting to se a proposal to compensate Alabama and/or Florida for extra water along with 5-10 year plan to solve this on a more permanent basis. Maybe an emergency panel of experts put together to come up with other ideas. If it had to be a publicity stunt, why not making a very public trip to Washington DC to increase national awareness and put pressure on Federal officials as well as our neighboring states to work with us to solve this problem.

Imagine my surprise when his big idea is (drum-roll): LETS PRAY FOR WATER. Give me a fucking break.

[Parkbandit]

You tried REALLY hard, didn't you? And this is the best you can do? Posting ALL of the posts that establish YOUR history of unprovoked attacks against me beforehand is simply unnecessary. I won't bother to ask you to find something real, because we both know it doesn't exist.

Tried really hard? A grand total of maybe 3-4 minutes. I guess to you, that would be hard work. And remember.. I'm not the one complaining people are picking on me with mean insults.. that was you. I can take as well as dish.


You haven't a leg to stand on when it comes to this topic. However, since you like playing detective so much, I challenge you to find a post where I came in insulting someone who hadn't made a habit of insulting me or insulted me prior to that on the same thread.


Oh, I saw that stipulation.. which is why I chose a very early post of yours.. prior to me outting you or even responding to you. You started posting on 8/24/07 regularly.. this post came from 9/3/07. Feel free to look at the posts prior to this one.. you'll find there was no habit.. from Parkbandit to Chillmonster at least :)

[Sean of the Thread]

It's Florida's water as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty sure any court in the land would rule in Florida's favor on the matter especially given the environment concerns it has for the end recipient. (FL)

[chillmonster]

Tried really hard? A grand total of maybe 3-4 minutes. I guess to you, that would be hard work. And remember.. I'm not the one complaining people are picking on me with mean insults.. that was you. I can take as well as dish.



Oh, I saw that stipulation.. which is why I chose a very early post of yours.. prior to me outting you or even responding to you. You started posting on 8/24/07 regularly.. this post came from 9/3/07. Feel free to look at the posts prior to this one.. you'll find there was no habit.. from Parkbandit to Chillmonster at least :)





People like Chillmonster, who can't spell a relatively easy word like REAGAN correctly, makes me think we should have a minimum IQ requirement to vote.

And the line: "If Gore were to run, this campaign would be little more than a formality" made me laugh out loud.

Oh my fucking God! A TYPO!!!!

And it's, "People like Chillmonster MAKE ME THINK," genius.

There's the start, PB. Try again.

HERE'S THE THREAD FOR YOU, SIR (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?p=618445#post618445)

[Warriorbird]

On topic? Raise some damn taxes. Pay more for the water. Get more processing plants. Sometimes you have to pay greater costs for greater utility.

[chillmonster]

It's not an issue of specific religions, it's any religion.


The only reason that would matter was if atheism (or any other nominally non-religious belief) wasn't itself a religious choice analogous to Christianity, Islam, etc.

That is a very popular misunderstanding. Atheism isn't a religion or analogous to any religious belief because it is by definition a lack of religion. The position is simply that not a single one of the numerous religions has ever been proven in any way shape fashion or form, so you have no reason to believe. It's simple logic.


How'd you like to be the only person out there praying? Obviously the solution is that all government offices must have exactly the same number of every constituent faith so nobody feels left out

A religious person can pray alone and Americans should have no problem with it. A problem does however arise if the governor singles out an irreligious person by gathering state employees for a religious exercise.

[Clove]

My problem isn't that he has tried to temporarily lift the Federal requirements...

I couldn't agree more. See how easy that was?

[Parkbandit]

There's the start, PB. Try again.

HERE'S THE THREAD FOR YOU, SIR (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?p=618445#post618445)

If that's all you got, you should quit now. 1 insult does not make a "habit"... although it's amazing how I pegged you from day one.

[chillmonster]

If that's all you got, you should quit now. 1 insult does not make a "habit"... although it's amazing how I pegged you from day one.

You really looked this time, didn't you? This must be your way of throwing in the towel. lol

[Clove]

If that's all you got, you should quit now. 1 insult does not make a "habit"... although it's amazing how I pegged you from day one.

Hell PB calls his mother worse things than that post had.

[Stanley Burrell]

You really looked this time, didn't you? This must be your way of throwing in the towel. lol

Why do you respond to him?

[chillmonster]

Why do you respond to him?

I'm sorry, but it's funny. He tries so hard and invests so much energy.

And just like the now debunked Backlash accusations, I knew I was right from the beginning. Why shouldn't this be entertaining?

[Parkbandit]

I'm sorry, but it's funny. He tries so hard and invests so much energy.

And just like the now debunked Backlash accusations, I knew I was right from the beginning. Why shouldn't this be entertaining?


You've managed to fool a few.. that's for sure.

And so much energy? Do you really have the energy of a slug? If you really believe sitting at a computer and looking up stupid quotes of yours for 3-4 minutes 'investing so much energy'.. then you should see a Dr. about your pathetic stamina.

[Warriorbird]

Chillmonster/Backlash on Parkbandit and Parkbandit on Chillmonster/Backlash

is

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/INCIDENT73/HardGay.jpg

[chillmonster]

Chillmonster/Backlash on Parkbandit and Parkbandit on Chillmonster/Backlash

is


First: His Backlash obsession is gay as hell, so you're half right at least.

Second: There is nothing wrong with lauging at something you know is rediculous.

Third: Yo Mamma.

[Snapp]

Good lord, you people need to get over the Backlash shit.

And this petty bickering between the same posters is getting so old.

[Latrinsorm]

Your commentary will only matter when you stop trotting that out.I promise to stop "trotting it out" when it stops being true. :)
Atheism isn't a religion or analogous to any religious belief because it is by definition a lack of religion.If that was its definition the word would be "areligion", now wouldn't it?
The position is simply that not a single one of the numerous religions has ever been proven in any way shape fashion or form, so you have no reason to believe.The same can be said for science, but I don't see too many atheists turning down penicillin. It turns out logic doesn't give you a whole hell of a lot until you start giving it some premises to chunk around.
A religious person can pray alone and Americans should have no problem with it.Actually, it turns out that can't happen. Religion is (by definition) a social activity. Geographic or visual proximity to other human beings is irrelevant to this definition.

For someone so eager to talk about what can be proven, you don't seem to have looked into empirical findings on these matters. I recommend at the very least the introduction to Durkheim's "The Elementary Forms" translated by Karen Fields (make sure not to get the Swain, he was apparently a bit of a jobber).

[Warriorbird]

The flaw of a thing does not correct the flaw of another thing, Latrin. You whack off to philosophy. You should get this but you can't. Your judgement is clouded. It all goes back to faith... which is a presupposition that you're right with no evidence at all. I'm sorry you're an invalid. At the least you're the type of invalid that makes themself feel better due to the condition they suffer from though.

[Latrinsorm]

The flaw of a thing does not correct the flaw of another thing, Latrin.Remember the last 40 times I said how that's not what I'm saying? :D
It all goes back to faithI would put it as everything goes back to axioms given some peoples' reactions to the word "faith", but yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
which is a presupposition that you're right with no evidence at all.I'd pick at the term presupposition only because we're capable of seeing the results of certain axioms. For instance, it turns out scientific principles are really useful for, you know, figuring stuff out. This doesn't make them any less axiomatic, but it does suggest adopting them (as I've done!). The question isn't whether religious beliefs are in some way axiomatic; all beliefs and principles are. The question is whether they're worthwhile enough to ignore the fact that we have no logical reason to believe them. Some folks find them laughable, but then again some folks find science laughable, so clearly that's not a strong enough criterion.

[Warriorbird]

I just find them a poor ground to judge themselves... or science.

[875000]

My problem isn't that he has tried to temporarily lift the Federal requirements; it's that he hasn't done more. The Governor sued the Army Corps of Engineers then asked the Federal Government them to lift those requirements when we thought the situation was much more dire. Now we have almost a year (instead of the initial 2 month calculation) to come up with a solution, but I haven't seen anything else.

The Army Corp of Engineering's revisions on the water levels occurred, roughly a week ago. Beyond the fact that you are asking someone to come up with a long term solution in the absence of information on the long term impacts of what he is proposing and after he has been dedicating most of his time trying to avert what seemed like an impending crisis, let's look at what else you are asking for ...


I was expecting to se a proposal to compensate Alabama and/or Florida for extra water along with 5-10 year plan to solve this on a more permanent basis.

1. Governors are responsible for running an entire state. Last time I checked there was more to Georgia than Atlanta. Beyond that, I would hazard to guess that the ones most responsible for developing and implimenting long term solutions, like identifying and implementing water conservation projects and regulations regarding city construction, are the balliwick of the people who were elected and appointed to run the city -- you know, like Shirley Franklin (D), the mayor of Atlanta, the City Councils, and county governments.
2. Let's just focus on Florida. Florida's contention is that lowering the amount of water being sent to from Lake Lanier would "irreversibly damage Florida's environment and its fisheries." Their current objection is that anything other than the levels being received now would "starve the Apalachicola River and Bay of freshwater flows needed to keep the ecosystems, species and economy alive." So tell me, if you were running the state of Florida, would you want to risk destroying your states major industries and causing irreperable environmental damage? And, what exactly is fair compensation for wrecking significant segments of a state's economy?
3. You are also aware that states can't unilaterally decide on how to divert water flows. They have to follow authorizing laws passed by Congress that establish specific purposes for water projects as well as environmental laws governing their impacts.



Maybe an emergency panel of experts put together to come up with other ideas.

You mean, like Georgia's congressmen and the federal government are doing?

This is exactly the reason why the Federal government was put in charge of adjudicating these issues in the first place. And, believe it or not, the Federal government understands this one too. Part of the Water Resources Development Act recently passed by Congress were mandates that the Army Corps of Engineers conduct a $7 million assessment of the watersheds and river basins in the southeast US.

Georgia's Rep. John Linder also introduced a bill to establish a national commission to recommend a comprehensive strategy for managing future water needs. Want to bet money that the Governor's office was not aware of this as well?

This entire situation is not easy, and has to be addressed on multiple levels -- county, city, state, and federal. One person does not own the problem. The reality is, most of the sweeping issues regarding water rights are federal in nature, which is why you are seeing most of the activity occur at that level. The more important, longer terms ones involving conservation -- like smart development -- are occuring at the local level.



If it had to be a publicity stunt, why not making a very public trip to Washington DC to increase national awareness and put pressure on Federal officials as well as our neighboring states to work with us to solve this problem.

Because maybe, just maybe, the publicity stunt was aimed at something longer term. Any of the news sources that bothered to quote the Governor in depth noted that he frequently pointed out the need for conservation and better management of resources in his public prays. The people who would have been most interested in that session are the ones that he has a large degree of influence with -- evangelicals -- and who also tend to be more politically motivated on issues of morality. Basically, an event like that started the process of framing water conservation as a moral issue, instead of a technical ones.

This is particularly useful in raising awareness of and advancing an agenda of water conservation, which is really going to be the only effective long term solution for this problem.

If that is what he is doing, it was a fairly shrewd political move: environmentalists and people familiar with the city's development understand the need for more conservation on people's parts and at the local/municipal levels of government; he is attempting to add a more diverse segment to this burgeoning political coalition.

In short, he is using his office to elevant consciousness of and build political momentum for water conservation efforts at levels beyond his governmental areas of control.



Imagine my surprise when his big idea is (drum-roll): LETS PRAY FOR WATER. Give me a fucking break.

Personally, though, I think you could care less about the policy implications, whether or not he really can do more with his office, and who is responsible for what. You saw someone with an "R" next to his name, heard that he dare express any religious beliefs, and then it was "off to the races."

[Martaigne]

I don't know who you are but you fucking OWN.

[Hulkein]

How wrong art though Backlash. Let me and others count the ways.



And I would say you would have the beginning of an argument here, were it not for the fact that I am a resident of Georgia (Cobb County, to be exact), work in Atlanta, and hear about it pretty much every day (as long as I am not on a travel assignment) as I listen to the radio while driving into work, talk to coworkers or friends, listen to the news or read the major local newspaper. You know, like the one (AJC) I quoted.

Question to the rest of the audience out there -- does this count as him being wrong on one count or two at the moment?



Very few current sources are nice enough to post a recap of everything that has transpired thus far. I used an older source to show he has been doing something, contrary to your assertions. Which was rather the point of this thread. Unless you were lying about not attacking someone because of their religious faith. Which would then make you a liar and a bigot as well as wrong.

So, for the people who are keeping score, that should put you as wrong on two points. Or three, depending on the audience's prior ruling.

Now as to your next point ...



Lake Lanier is a man-made lake. It was built and is currently controlled by the US Army Corps of Engineers for the following expressed purposes:
1. Flood control, to protect Metro Atlanta
2. Provide water for hydro electricity
3. Provide water for the protection of endangered or protected species.
4. Drinking water for metro Atlanta.

Now here's the interesting part. The lake is fed by two rivers -- the Chattahoochee River and the Chestatee River -- which cross state lines.

Federal Law mandates that when a river flows between two or more states, each state has a right to an equal share of the water. Additionally, other federal laws such as the Endangered Species Act require that water be available for threatened or endangered species that live in or around Chattahoochee River and Apalachicola Bay.

However, since the lake's construction, metro Atlanta has been taking water from the lake to use for municipal drinking water, which was only authorized by Congress as an incidental use secondary to hydroelectricity.

Which means the Governor of Georgia can't snap his fingers and renegotiate the deal. Federal law trumps state law. Two other states have just as valid legal claims. Ultimately, this is a federal decision , which is why the federal government has been involved.

I can keep going with this, but the point is the Governor of Georgia can't do what you are demanding. Ultimately, what will need to be done is smarter construction of future development projects in Atlanta, as well as repairing/update the older construction. However, that is more of a local issue (i.e., Atlanta) than a statewide (i.e., nearly the rest of the state) one.

Now, refresh my memory -- who is the mayor of Atlanta? Oh, that's right. Shirley Franklin. And what party does she belong to? She's a Democrat? And how many Republicans have been mayor of Atlanta? I'll give you hint. It rhymes with a Roman Emperor who allegedly fiddled as his city burned.

That makes you wrong on three counts. Or Four. Someone help me.

Now, since you have taken such an interest in me and where I am from, it’s only fair that I ask you to share:

1. Despite living in Atlanta, you did not seem to recognize that the Atlanta-Journal Constitution is one of the major -- if not the major -- local newspaper(s). Why is that?
2. Even though the controversy over Lake Lanier has been in the news for several months now, you did not seem to know or acknowledge that the lake control of Lake Lanier extends far beyond the Endangered Specials Act and ties into basic US water rights. Was your mention of this issue merely a fig leaf to disguise your religious intolerance or based on a poor understanding of the concept of Federalism and States Rights?
3. Similarly, you did not know that the use of Lake Lanier as a drinking source was not the intended primary purpose of the body of water. Have you limited your understanding of this controversy to what others tell you, or have you seen the exhaustive early coverage and chose to ignore it for purposes of scoring cheap points.
4. Your main assertion is that the long term focus should be on water rights, whereas every major news outlet in and out of the state have been pointing out the main long term solution is smarter development, with an eye towards water conservation. Is this due to a limited knowledge of the issues facing Atlanta, or part of a broader partisan witch-hunt?

An irony of life: why is it that hippies tend to be the least tolerant of people with views different from their own?

Pwnd.

Go home and cry chillmonster, loser.

[Gan]

Someone get Chillmonster a mirror. He just got both ass cheeks stamped with 875000 in this thread.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3/3strangedays/chillmonster.jpg

[Martaigne]

Haha! That's classic, Gan.

Where's chill? I don't see any responses.

[CrystalTears]

I'm hoping he doesn't. it would be nice to know he understands defeat and leaves things alone.

I can dream!

[Clove]

I'm hoping he doesn't. it would be nice to know he understands defeat and leaves things alone.

I can dream!


I often get bored with some of these people, but I never run away. :medieval:

:troll:

[Martaigne]

Back ON topic...

Park rink's imported ice a frozen asset

If you're not making plans to head over to Centennial Olympic Park for the holiday ice rink, you have some explaining to do to park officials. They went through a lot of heavy hauling — about 12,000 gallons of H20 from Kentucky — to construct this year's park-sicle.

These are mighty dry times indeed for Georgia, so park officials shipped in enough water to complete the 64-foot-wide, 115-foot-long rink that opens Saturday. That's about 15 feet larger than in previous years.

Thank heaven there's no electricity shortage, or the park might have had to run an extension cord to North Dakota for its annual Holiday in Lights extravaganza, which also kicks off Saturday.

But through a lot of blood, sweat and ... (no tears, we can't waste water) ... the frozen fun goes on.


http://www.ajc.com/search/content/holidayguide/events/stories/2007/11/08/iceskating_1109.html

[Sean of the Thread]

I pray for chocolate rain.


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Japgross/rain.jpg

[Gan]

Back ON topic...

Park rink's imported ice a frozen asset

If you're not making plans to head over to Centennial Olympic Park for the holiday ice rink, you have some explaining to do to park officials. They went through a lot of heavy hauling — about 12,000 gallons of H20 from Kentucky — to construct this year's park-sicle.

These are mighty dry times indeed for Georgia, so park officials shipped in enough water to complete the 64-foot-wide, 115-foot-long rink that opens Saturday. That's about 15 feet larger than in previous years.

Thank heaven there's no electricity shortage, or the park might have had to run an extension cord to North Dakota for its annual Holiday in Lights extravaganza, which also kicks off Saturday.

But through a lot of blood, sweat and ... (no tears, we can't waste water) ... the frozen fun goes on.


http://www.ajc.com/search/content/holidayguide/events/stories/2007/11/08/iceskating_1109.html

I suppose they can always melt the rink if they do run out of water.

Nice to see they have their priorities in line. :lol:

[chillmonster]

Sorry for taking a while; I just haven't been around.

I checked on the congressional hearings, and you were right. Also, there was a deal initiated by the Alabama governor and brokered by the Bush Administration. Shirley Franklin has apparently been pushing exploration of ways to pump water into Atlanta from either Tennessee or Savannah, and she's been up to Capitol Hill 3 times because of this issue. So a lot of people are making efforts that I hadn't heard about, but none of them are Sonny Purdue.

You assertion that it isn't as much his responsibility as everyone else is complete nonsense. He is the governor of the entire state, but since the metro area is almost 2/3 of the state's GDP, I think worrying about what's going on here is probably a good idea. And I'm not asking him to solve anything unilaterally. I just wanted to see more effort on his part to move toward a solution and the only thing I'd seen from him in a while is his pray for rain scheme. If that's all he has, I don't understand how you or anyone else can be happy with his performance.


This isn't about his religion or his politics. It's about his performance. You're the hippie if you really think I'd be happy with a Democratic Governor failing to show leadership on such an important issue then asking us to pray for rain.

[Gan]

Hey, his prayers must be working... It rained all night here in Houston, and its raining still. Maybe Sonny forgot to ask God where he wanted it to rain.

[Daniel]

Or maybe he did and that's just god's way of showing him that he shouldn't have banged that Asian hooker 3 years back.

[mason86]

Home Energy Savings, Water Conservation, Save Water,
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[Kithus]

Great, necrobotters.

[ClydeR]

Barack Obama at the National Prayer Breakfast..


I'm privileged to join you once again, as my predecessors have for over half a century. Like them, I come here to speak about the ways my faith informs who I am -- as a President, and as a person. But I'm also here for the same reason that all of you are, for we all share a recognition -- one as old as time -- that a willingness to believe, an openness to grace, a commitment to prayer can bring sustenance to our lives.

There is, of course, a need for prayer even in times of joy and peace and prosperity. Perhaps especially in such times prayer is needed -- to guard against pride and to guard against complacency. But rightly or wrongly, most of us are inclined to seek out the divine not in the moment when the Lord makes His face shine upon us, but in moments when God's grace can seem farthest away.

More... (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-national-prayer-breakfast)

If it's okay for a Democrat to pray, why is it wrong for a southern Republican to do the same? Shame on double standards.