6 televangelists are under Congressional investigation

[Gan]

WASHINGTON -- The top Republican on the Senate (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14526264/detail.html#) Finance Committee said today he has launched an investigation into alleged financial wrongdoing involving six well-known televangelists -- including two based in Georgia.

LIST: Televangelists Under Investigation (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14529366/detail.html)
Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa sent letters to six Christian media ministries this week requesting information about their expenses, executive compensation and amenities given to executives.

Among them are Bishop Eddie Long of Ministries of Lithonia and Creflo Dollar Ministries of College Park. Dollar said in a statement that he will comply with the orders and that his church has complied with the IRS for more than a decade. Dollar said his life and ministry have always been an open book.

Grassley said he is following up on complaints from the public and news coverage. He said the allegations involve governing boards that aren't independent and allow generous salaries and housing allowances and amenities such as private jets and Rolls Royces.

Also named by Grassley as targets of the investigation are Paula White Ministries of Tampa, Florida; Benny Hinn Ministries of Grapevine, Texas; Joyce Meyer Ministries of Fenton, Missouri; and Kenneth Copeland Ministries of Newark, Texas.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14526264/detail.html
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:clap:

I really hope this is more than just a dog and pony show (other than the tv ministry).

[TheEschaton]

What're they investigating them for, exactly?

[Gan]

"I'm following up on complaints from the public and news coverage regarding certain practices at six ministries," Grassley said in a statement.

"The allegations involve governing boards that aren't independent and allow generous salaries and housing allowances and amenities such as private jets and Rolls Royces.


"I don't want to conclude that there's a problem, but I have an obligation to donors and the taxpayers to find out more," Grassley said.

From the link in the story above.

[Seran]

To be honest, this isn't too surprising except for Kenneth Copeland being added. I remember as a kid his damn show coming on after Saturday morning cartoons.

Maybe they'll deny Tammy Fay her hair dye for a month.

[Hulkein]

Why don't you just post a link to Drudge Report every 5 hours Gan?

[Tsa`ah]

Tammy Fay died earlier this summer.

It's unfortunate that things like this happen in faith based communities. We knock Scientology (rightfully so), but Hubbard was only taking a page from centuries of religious leeching.

It's even more unfortunate that it doesn't matter to the donors. They'll see the leaders of their ministries in designer clothing, expensive jewelry ... right down to the Rolex, they'll see the cars, the trips, the homes ... and keep donating even when the bank is knocking on that foreclosure door, long after the utilities have been shut off.

Jim and Tammy were rare cases, Jim Bakker only saw jail time for fraud. You'll never see these people serve jail time or pay taxes simply because they're using a loop-hole that has existed since our Constitution was signed.

Honestly, this will be a dog and pony show. They're going after these people because they can't touch them. It's a distraction. Were they serious, they'd go after Richard, and Oral, Roberts and all those attached to the Oral Roberts Institute (which include some of the names mentioned in the OP).

The real travesty is the blanket implication and social outlook people have on organized religion as a whole. For every scum bag televangilist or catholic pedophile minister, there are probably a hundred genuinely good religious people ... honestly, probably a thousand more.

[TheEschaton]

At least us Catholics use our money to buy up art, important artifacts, and land, conceivably for the use of all, as opposed to getting all our priests Rolexes and jets.

-TheE-

[Some Rogue]

At least us Catholics use our money to buy up art, important artifacts, and land, conceivably for the use of all, as opposed to getting all our priests Rolexes and jets.

-TheE-


And to pay off all the victims of child molesting priests.

[Tsa`ah]

At least us Catholics use our money to buy up art, important artifacts, and land, conceivably for the use of all, as opposed to getting all our priests Rolexes and jets.

Note the bolded word.

I shudder when I think of all the potential history the Catholic Church has purchased and buried for it's own benefit.

Let's not even get into not needing to buy the Rolex (I'm sure they have access to all the jets they want) simply because it operates as a members only club and puts the top end up in lavish digs for life.

[TheEschaton]

That's why I put that word there.

I wish I could see what they have hidden in the Vatican's Secret Archives...or, the Pope's own collection of "heretical" items.

-TheE-

[Gan]

Why don't you just post a link to Drudge Report every 5 hours Gan?

Why dont you post something intelligent, or better yet stay out of discussions where adults like to talk about the news. ;)

[Gan]

And to pay off all the victims of child molesting priests.

LOL

score

[Gan]

Personally, if these guys are going to operate their ministry like a business, then they should be taxed like a business.

Its amazing how many people I know that actually send Benny Hinn money.

I actually had to get up and leave my mother in-laws house because she admitted in a conversation that she donated to Benny. Otherwise I would have said something to make her cry.

:banghead:

[Clove]

For a second I thought this thread was titled "6 Teavengelicals are under Congressional investigation" I think I need some sleep.

[Hulkein]

or better yet stay out of discussions where adults like to talk about the news. ;)

You mean bicker like old men? ;)

[thefarmer]

Why isn't that sleazy-sound-used-car-salesman of a scumbag Joel Olsteen being investigated?

Unless they think he's too young to have misused enough cash compared to those other old guys.

I will say though, that I'm surprised that Copeland's up there. Out of that group (including Olsteen) he seems downright pious.

[Methais]

Farting Preacher is my favorite televangelist.

[Gan]

Farting Preacher is my favorite televangelist.

hahaha, I've seen that video.

Thats the guy they confronted in Dallas? when they found thousands on thousands of unanswered/unresponded? prayer requests thrown into a dumpster behind his studio.

[Kembal]

Why isn't that sleazy-sound-used-car-salesman of a scumbag Joel Olsteen being investigated?

Wait, what do you have against Olsteen? I'm not Christian, and I generally despise most of the televangelists out there, but having listened to him a couple of times and talking to people that have done interfaith work with him, he seems genuine.

His father, I didn't like so much.

[Gan]

Same here.

I've heard some negative things about his father, but on Joel I've heard nothing but genuine praise for.

[DeV]

Why isn't that sleazy-sound-used-car-salesman of a scumbag Joel Olsteen being investigated?

He defines Theology-Lite. He's the quintessential self-help minister who tells you what you want to hear. Some people consider him a breath of fresh air, others consider him the fast-food version of your standard televangelist. I say, to each their own.

[Tsa`ah]

Personally, if these guys are going to operate their ministry like a business, then they should be taxed like a business.

Its amazing how many people I know that actually send Benny Hinn money.


There's got to be a breaking point somewhere ... and it really doesn't just stop with televangilists. Without any firm figures one can only guess how many millions ... hundreds likely ... of potential tax revenue goes directly into these mega churches, their parishioners, and their parishioners's life styles.

The same thing can be said of US businesses that base themselves off-shore and are never taxed (cruise lines and more). That's a bit off topic though.

There has got to be some common sense way to tax these people and churches without actually compromising constitutional intent. To me it only makes sense to tax it in a manner similar to US citizens working abroad. After X dollars, the taxes start to roll ... for parishioners. Cut out the "donations/contributions" for goods bullshit and start charging sales tax and taxing the revenue.

And hey ... here's one ... stop giving federal funds to "faith based" education.

[thefarmer]

He defines Theology-Lite. He's the quintessential self-help minister who tells you what you want to hear.

Among other reasons, this is one of them.

[Gan]

He defines Theology-Lite. He's the quintessential self-help minister who tells you what you want to hear. Some people consider him a breath of fresh air, others consider him the fast-food version of your standard televangelist. I say, to each their own.

I forgot that what you described is one of the biggest arguments against his non-denominational theology as professed by the southern baptists here in Houston. "He tells you what you want to hear" rather than trying to scare you into faith by preaching hellfire and brimstone. Personally I feel that the only difference is that his teachings focus more on the person rather than the conversion of the masses which seems to be the ministry goal of other denominational churches.

That being said, it says something when his church can purchase the Compaq Center (formerly the Summit where the Houston Rockets/Aeros used to play) and convert it from being a sports colleseum into a church thats packed to the roof with multiple worship times/days. Not to mention have multiple campuses in the Houston area.

Seems their attendance is 47,000 which is being touted as America's largest church.

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20071003/29559_Top_100_Largest%2C_Fastest-Growing_Churches.htm

Top 10 largest US churches: *
1. Lakewood Church, Houston Texas – Joel Osteen (47,000)
2. Willow Creek Community Church, South Barrington, Ill. – Bill Hybels (23,500)
3. Second Baptist Church, Houston – Ed Young Sr. (23,198)
4. Saddleback Church, Lake Forest, Calif. – Rick Warren (22,000)
5. LifeChurch.tv, Edmond, Okla. – Craig Groeschel (19,907)
6. Southeast Christian Church, Louisville, Ky. – Dave Stone (18,013)
7. North Point Church, Alpharetta, Ga. – Andy Stanley (17,700)
8. Thomas Road Baptist Church, Lynchburg, Va. – Jonathan Falwell (17.445)
9. Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale, Fort Lauderdale, Fla. – Bob Coy (17,000)
10. The Potter's House, Dallas – T.D. Jakes (17,000)

*Corrections to the list are found on page 2 of the article sourced.

[TheEschaton]

Isn't the whole point of church to be in close community with each other? How can you do that with 47,000 people?

The most meaningful Masses I've ever been at all had less than 20 people at them, and had a more intimate feeling, like friends gathered around a table to share a meal (which is originally what the Eucharist was).

-TheE-

[Gan]

Isn't the whole point of church to be in close community with each other? How can you do that with 47,000 people?

The most meaningful Masses I've ever been at all had less than 20 people at them, and had a more intimate feeling, like friends gathered around a table to share a meal (which is originally what the Eucharist was).

-TheE-

Your missing the fundamental difference in how religion is practiced and worshiped. If that were not the case, then all of Christianity would be practiced and worshiped the same way.

[Latrinsorm]

Community is community. Eucharist must be pretty ridiculous though.

[Tsa`ah]

Isn't the whole point of church to be in close community with each other? How can you do that with 47,000 people?


You can't. Think of it as ranching sheep (applicable since ministers consider themselves shepherds and the congregation the flock).

The small time shepherd pulls them in, knows their names, is familiar with their lives, their problems, their needs. He may even show up on a church members steps in a time of need offering emotional support and something from the church's coffers to help during that tight stretch.

The mega churches are industrial ranches. Pack them in to the rafters, sheer them as often as possible. "Sell" them useless literature on the way in and out, pimp the product from the door to exit ... "sell""sell""sell""sell""sell""sell""sell""sell" .... sheer sheer sheer sheer sheer . There isn't a sense of community because the minister of faith is "giving" you all the tools you need to do it yourself. He'll never know your name, he'll not give a shit that the bank foreclosed on you, the dealership repossessed, the utilities shut off ... so long as your forking over some of the welfare/unemployment/disability every month.

The congregation is a means to an end. Feed them what they want to hear and they'll make sure you can buy a new car and live in luxury for as long as you spew that gold plated crap.

[chillmonster]

When a church has a VIP section like some of the megachurches in Atlanta, there's a problem.

[Gan]

Reminds me of that Ray Stevens song: Would Jesus Wear a Rolex

:lol:

I'll take personal spirituality over public demonstration any day.

[DeV]

It's simply brilliant from a business perspective.

Dr. Phil on bible crack.

[Gan]

It's simply brilliant from a business perspective.

Dr. Phil on bible crack.

Non taxed brilliance too.

[Tsa`ah]

Non taxed brilliance too.

And deductible ... twofer.

[chillmonster]

Clepto (I mean Creflo) Dollar rides around in a chopper and a Bentley. His son used to drive to school in a brand new Navigator. These people should be investigated.