Rudy Hires Priest Accused of Child Molestation

[chillmonster]

ABC Story (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=3753385&page=1)


Presidential candidate Rudolph Giuliani hired a Catholic priest to work in his consulting firm months after the priest was accused of sexually molesting two former students and an altar boy and told by the church to stop performing his priestly duties.

The priest, Monsignor Alan Placa, a longtime friend of Giuliani and the priest who officiated at his second wedding to Donna Hanover, continues to work at Giuliani Partners in New York, to the outrage of some of his accusers and victims' groups, which have begun to protest at Giuliani campaign events.

"This man did unjust things, and he's being protected and employed and taken care of. It's not a good thing," said one of the accusers, Richard Tollner, who says Placa molested him repeatedly when he was a student at a Long Island, N.Y. Catholic boys high school in 1975.

At a campaign appearance in Milwaukee last week, Giuliani continued to defend Placa, who he described to reporters as a close friend for 39 years.

There is something to be said for loyalty, but this was dumb. This one may blow up on him.

[Gan]

If its true, its very dumb.

Priest or no.

:(

[chillmonster]

I think his campaign thinks his close friendship with a priest would provide enough of a benefit in the eyes of evangelicals to mitigate the risk. He obviously doesn't know the religious fanatics down here. Catholic is one step from atheist (which is synonymous with communist).

The best way for him to get the nomination is to fake recieving the Holy Ghost during the next debate.

http://www.colmww.org/worshipcenter/assets/photos/matthewReceivingTheHolyGhost.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

I'd say if he's only been accused then there really shouldn't be a problem. Innocent until proven guilty, right? However, there clearly would be a problem, so it's not the greatest move on Rudy's part.

[Clove]

I think his campaign thinks his close friendship with a priest would provide enough of a benefit in the eyes of evangelicals to mitigate the risk. He obviously doesn't know the religious fanatics down here. Catholic is one step from atheist (which is synonymous with communist).

The best way for him to get the nomination is to fake recieving the Holy Ghost during the next debate.

http://www.colmww.org/worshipcenter/assets/photos/matthewReceivingTheHolyGhost.jpg

Or maybe he's aware that Catholicism has the largest following of any religion in the United States and that approximately 1/4th of the country professes to be Catholic. :thinking: In any case I'm sure he and his campaign managers know the difference between Catholic and Protestant FFS- do you even listen to yourself?

[ElanthianSiren]

I'd say if he's only been accused then there really shouldn't be a problem. Innocent until proven guilty, right? However, there clearly would be a problem, so it's not the greatest move on Rudy's part.

Really, it matters what voters think. I mean, damn, we have a multi page thread over a CAT and Hil'hairy Clinton's image going on over there. I'm sure a priest accused of being a molester is going to make a few people froth, perhaps wrongly.

[chillmonster]

Or maybe he's aware that Catholicism has the largest following of any religion in the United States and that approximately 1/4th of the country professes to be Catholic. :thinking: In any case I'm sure he and his campaign managers know the difference between Catholic and Protestant FFS- do you even listen to yourself?

lol. You teed this one up, but I'm going to go easy on you. He isn't pandering to Catholics; he needs Evangelicals for the nomination. The difference between communion, mass, and last rights and having a personal relationship with OurLordandSaviorJesusChrist may not be much to you, but it means the world to these people. And no matter how hard he tries, he'll never be one of them. The fact is many Evangelicals don't even consider Catholics to be Christian.

And before you say anything else, I grew up in a Pentecostal church. Yes the same, women wear dresses/bible camp/'Praise the Lord Night' on Halloween/Falling in the isle with the Holy Ghost people who are controlling a substantial portion of your party.

[Daniel]

The real issues are Socks the cat. Keep it focused people.

[Clove]

lol. You teed this one up, but I'm going to go easy on you. He isn't pandering to Catholics; he needs Evangelicals for the nomination...
And before you say anything else, I grew up in a Pentecostal church. Yes the same, women wear dresses/bible camp/'Praise the Lord Night' on Halloween/Falling in the isle with the Holy Ghost people who are controlling a substantial portion of your party.

That he's pandering at all as well as the "need" for evangelicals for his nomination is pure opinion.

With New York being over 30% Catholic and Florida, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and California all having substantial Catholic populations exceeding their Protestant population, it's a good idea to have some associations with Catholic clergy- like having a priest on your staff- granted the ideal choice would be a priest that hasn't been accused of child molestation, but those are becoming rare.

Congratulations on being Pentecostal- unfortunately it doesn't make you any less clueless. Nor does it give you any indication on what "my party" is. While I won't say any more than I'm a registered Independent, I can tell you with absolute certainty that Pentecostals have no influence on my party of choice these days.

His political staff isn't retarded and I would be surprised if they weren't at least generally familiar with the sectarian differences between Protestants and Catholics. I'm sorry to inform you but the Bible Belt really isn't as influential as you'd like it to be.

[Daniel]

Nor does it give you any indication on what "my party" is. W

I'm sure a few of us could take a stab in the dark...

[Gan]

I'm sorry to inform you but the Bible Belt really isn't as influential as you'd like it to be.

Thank God.

[Clove]

Thank God.

You mean "Praise the Lord"

[Gan]

A-Men

[chillmonster]

That he's pandering at all as well as the "need" for evangelicals for his nomination is pure opinion.

With New York being over 30% Catholic and Florida, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and California all having substantial Catholic populations exceeding their Protestant population, it's a good idea to have some associations with Catholic clergy- like having a priest on your staff- granted the ideal choice would be a priest that hasn't been accused of child molestation, but those are becoming rare.

Congratulations on being Pentecostal- unfortunately it doesn't make you any less clueless. Nor does it give you any indication on what "my party" is. While I won't say any more than I'm a registered Independent, I can tell you with absolute certainty that Pentecostals have no influence on my party of choice these days.

His political staff isn't retarded and I would be surprised if they weren't at least generally familiar with the sectarian differences between Protestants and Catholics. I'm sorry to inform you but the Bible Belt really isn't as influential as you'd like it to be.

I was never Pentecostal. I was just dragged to a Pentecostal church as a kid; there is a difference. If you don't think candidates are pandering to evangelicals (or "Values Voters) you haven't been paying attention. If you don't know that Evangelicals have issues with Rudy you're not informed enough to be posting your opinion. I simply refuse to accept that you believe Rudy cares more at this point about New York primary votes than he does about those in Iowa and South Carolina, so I'll let you rethink that one.

Pop quiz: What summit did Republican candidates just come from?

[DeV]

Innocent until proven guilty, right?Correct. Too bad most of the molesters and sexual abusers who happen to be priests never see their day in court. Out of court settlement, ftw.

In any case, way to go, Rudy.

[Clove]

I was never Pentecostal. I was just dragged to a Pentecostal church as a kid; there is a difference. If you don't think candidates are pandering to evangelicals (or "Values Voters) you haven't been paying attention. If you don't know that Evangelicals have issues with Rudy you're not informed enough to be posting your opinion. I simply refuse to accept that you believe Rudy cares more at this point about New York primary votes than he does about those in Iowa and South Carolina, so I'll let you rethink that one.

Pop quiz: What summit did Republican candidates just come from?

While I did say the Bible Belt isn't as influential as you think- I never said Rudy isn't interested in Evangelicals. Everyone knows his position on Gay Rights and Abortion issues. Obviously that hurts him with Evangelicals and certainly he's making attempts to soften his image there.

That doesn't change that it's important for a politician to have good relationships with Catholics in a country that has more Catholics than any other religion, even Republicans. The Cuban vote for example is crucial in Florida, which is also an essential electoral State. Cubans are largely Republican and Catholic. Polls indicate Rudy is leading in New York, Florida and California- which "coincidentally" has high Catholic populations.

You're being retarded when you suppose that his association with a Catholic clergyman is an attempt to woo Protestant voters; of course it isn't, he and his staff is certainly aware of the religious differences between Christian sects- a politician with his experience has to be. It's more likely he's keeping his Catholic sector secured. He also is not going to "distance himself" from Catholicism to bring Protestants into his camp you dipshit, he'll use other tactics.

[TheEschaton]

The thing though, with Catholics, is that they are far-ranging political spectrums, divided along beliefs and race. You have a minority of Catholics who are as conservative as all the Pentacostal groups, like Opus Dei. You have a minority of Catholics who are liberal, like me, who were educated by Jesuits and believe that Catholicism is about the radical personification of love and the lifting up of the poor and oppressed. And you have the majority, who fall in the moderate middle. In terms of race and wealth, you have the poorest Hispanic immigrants and the wealthiest white businessmen and politicians (including Giuliani) incorporated under the Catholic faith.

Evangelicals, as a group, largely fall on one side of the spectrum. The only Evangelicals who ever vote Democratic are African Americans, and they're putting race ahead of their religion, which many would say doesn't qualify them as Evangelical.

Therefore, the Evangelicals have a lot of power to the Republican party because they consistently vote GOP, while Catholics do not.

Furthermore, there's evidence that they have lots of political power. By all means, Mitt Romney should be running away with this election. His views are most closely aligned with the conservative base - but he isn't? Why? The only reason I can come up with is that he's Mormon.

-TheE-

[chillmonster]

While I did say the Bible Belt isn't as influential as you think- I never said Rudy isn't interested in Evangelicals. Everyone knows his position on Gay Rights and Abortion issues. Obviously that hurts him with Evangelicals and certainly he's making attempts to soften his image there.

That doesn't change that it's important for a politician to have good relationships with Catholics in a country that has more Catholics than any other religion, even Republicans. The Cuban vote for example is crucial in Florida, which is also an essential electoral State. Cubans are largely Republican and Catholic. Polls indicate Rudy is leading in New York, Florida and California- which "coincidentally" has high Catholic populations.

You're being retarded when you suppose that his association with a Catholic clergyman is an attempt to woo Protestant voters; of course it isn't, he and his staff is certainly aware of the religious differences between Christian sects- a politician with his experience has to be. It's more likely he's keeping his Catholic sector secured. He also is not going to "distance himself" from Catholicism to bring Protestants into his camp you dipshit, he'll use other tactics.

Is this really that hard to understand? Is anyone else having as much trouble as this guy? Maybe you're too dumb to learn.

[Clove]

The thing though, with Catholics, is that they are far-ranging political spectrums...

Completely agree, "catholic" as an adjective for broad, or universal doesn't exist without a reason. He isn't going to win the "Catholic vote" because it IS too broad, however with so many voters being Catholic I consider it a smart move to have positive ties with the Catholic church and in his case, since he is Catholic there really isn't any choice. It looks bad if you distance yourself from your own religion.

Probably true about the Mormon connection. And I don't know that Rudy can do anything to soften his image enough with the Evangelicals given his politics; but I'm pretty confident in my opinion that hiring a Catholic priest isn't part of any effort to do so. Just as I'm confident that it's a good move to strengthen his support in other segments.

Evangelicals are a force in the Republican party, but I disagree that they are the force.

[CrystalTears]

Is this really that hard to understand? Is anyone else having as much trouble as this guy? Maybe you're too dumb to learn.

You're the only one arguing with him, Mini B. What's so hard for YOU to understand? People don't do things primarily to get the Evangelical vote because they're not the majority. They don't make or break elections. Again, the Bible Belt does not run this country.

[Clove]

Is this really that hard to understand? Is anyone else having as much trouble as this guy? Maybe you're too dumb to learn.

Not as stupid as you are if you think Rudy hired a Catholic priest to improve his image with Protestants. It was a retarded statement and all that we've come to expect from you Chill-lash.

[Gan]

The thing though, with Catholics, is that they are far-ranging political spectrums, divided along beliefs and race. You have a minority of Catholics who are as conservative as all the Pentacostal groups, like Opus Dei. You have a minority of Catholics who are liberal, like me, who were educated by Jesuits and believe that Catholicism is about the radical personification of love and the lifting up of the poor and oppressed. And you have the majority, who fall in the moderate middle. In terms of race and wealth, you have the poorest Hispanic immigrants and the wealthiest white businessmen and politicians (including Giuliani) incorporated under the Catholic faith.

Evangelicals, as a group, largely fall on one side of the spectrum. The only Evangelicals who ever vote Democratic are African Americans, and they're putting race ahead of their religion, which many would say doesn't qualify them as Evangelical.

Therefore, the Evangelicals have a lot of power to the Republican party because they consistently vote GOP, while Catholics do not.

Furthermore, there's evidence that they have lots of political power. By all means, Mitt Romney should be running away with this election. His views are most closely aligned with the conservative base - but he isn't? Why? The only reason I can come up with is that he's Mormon.

-TheE-

Good post.

Holy shit I just agreed with TheE. Someone must have spiked my morning soda.

[Atlanteax]

Priest must be guilty...

... because the Church does not ask Priests to stop their duties over an accusation, like the Police do with Paid Admin Leave.

[Latrinsorm]

Yeah, there's no way the Church would want to avoid even the appearance of impropriety in today's world.

[Tsa`ah]

You're the only one arguing with him, Mini B. What's so hard for YOU to understand? People don't do things primarily to get the Evangelical vote because they're not the majority. They don't make or break elections. Again, the Bible Belt does not run this country.

This is absolutely false.

Carter's election, Carter's loss to Reagan, Bush Sr losing to Clinton, and four years of Jr are largely due to the Evangelical vote.

The bible belt doesn't run this country, but they're more organized than any other religious group (politically) and mean more in any election season than the undecided vote.

Candidates pander more to them than they do any other group not considered within their base.

Rudie going to with pedo priest doesn't help him an iota with the Evangelical vote, and as E pointed out ... probably doesn't help him with the Catholic vote ... it does probably help produce a self inflicted campaign wound, but I don't see how this is going to help him. I also agree that Romney isn't out there with the religious vote because he's a Mormon ... most bible belters view them as a cult. He could carry Utah while eating a baby ... but getting red state votes he's not.

[CrystalTears]

This particular priest doesn't help him with ANY religious group, so I don't know why anyone would say he's pandering to a particular group anyway.

[Tsa`ah]

That's why I said it probably helps him produce a self inflicted campaign wound.

[chillmonster]

Not as stupid as you are if you think Rudy hired a Catholic priest to improve his image with Protestants. It was a retarded statement and all that we've come to expect from you Chill-lash.

So your brilliant theory is Rudy is spending so much time in the Bible Belt to appeal to New York Catholics? You really should ask Gan or PB even, who have paid attention to the Republican candidates and can enlighten you.

He's trying to prove his religious credentials, and I'm under no illusion that he or his staff believes his close association with a priest will prompt Evangelicals to suddenly embrace him. His goal is to make them just comfortable enough with his religious credentials to allow what he feels are his strength (national security, electability) to trump their reservations about social issues and garner enough Evangelical support to win him the nomination. That's what his entire campaign is about for three of the four leading Republican candidates: pandering to so called "Values Voters" by playing down socially liberal issues and playing up your conservative credentials.

And the answer to my earlier question is the Value Voters Summit.

[chillmonster]

You're the only one arguing with him, Mini B. What's so hard for YOU to understand? People don't do things primarily to get the Evangelical vote because they're not the majority. They don't make or break elections. Again, the Bible Belt does not run this country.

No one is saying evangelicals are the majority of this country. They are, however, over 30% or Republican primary voters and essential to winning the nomination.

[DeV]

This is absolutely false.

Carter's election, Carter's loss to Reagan, Bush Sr losing to Clinton, and four years of Jr are largely due to the Evangelical vote.

The bible belt doesn't run this country, but they're more organized than any other religious group (politically) and mean more in any election season than the undecided vote.

Candidates pander more to them than they do any other group not considered within their base.

Rudie going to with pedo priest doesn't help him an iota with the Evangelical vote, and as E pointed out ... probably doesn't help him with the Catholic vote ... it does probably help produce a self inflicted campaign wound, but I don't see how this is going to help him. I also agree that Romney isn't out there with the religious vote because he's a Mormon ... most bible belters view them as a cult. He could carry Utah while eating a baby ... but getting red state votes he's not.Well said.

[Clove]

So your brilliant theory is Rudy is spending so much time in the Bible Belt to appeal to New York Catholics?

No Mini-B my brilliant theory is that having a Catholic priest on his staff is not part of a strategy to curry favor with Evangelicals because both Rudy and his staff understand how Pentacostals feel about Catholics and keeping connections with Catholic clergy does have value in keeping his edge in NY, FL and CA.

His political staff are using other tactics to soften his image with Evangelicals like face presence in the South. Personally I think it's a lost cause- he's just too moderate to move the hard-core Born Agains to his camp.

You can't unring a bell Chill-lash. You made a retarded statement, like you always do. You can deflect all you like, but it's ridiculously unlikely that Rudy hires Catholic priests to make him seem more religious to Bible-thumpers down south.

[chillmonster]

Catholics for the large part don't vote religion. Evangelicals do. Any effort to show religious credentials is a pander toward Evangelicals. I challenge you to show me a clip or a quote of Rudy talking about how his religion affects his political decisions when he was running for mayor or Governor of NY, needing those vital (lol) NY Catholic votes. The primary for Republicans is ALL about Evangelicals. They’ll worry about moderates during the general.

[Clove]

And the answer to my earlier question is the Value Voters Summit.

Whew, for a few posts there I was worried that you didn't know the answer to your own question. That would be so like you Mini-B.

You do realize that Q&A games are ridiculous when we're not in a real-time debate or conversation? This is why I don't participate in them; you'll just have to take my word that I'm aware of candicacy news- or don't.

[Clove]

Catholics for the large part don't vote religion...

This doesn't change that, like a moron, you state that Rudy hires Catholic priests to make himself look more religious to non-Catholics.

Even though being Catholic or having Catholic connections doesn't win you an automatic vote from Catholics maybe it's still a good idea to have something in common with a 1/4th of the country- call me crazy. Although let's be clear this will not help you if you're trying to seem more friendly to Pentecostals... as any child of a Pentecostal will tell you.

[chillmonster]

... you'll just have to take my word that I'm aware of candicacy news- or don't.

You don't know. The initial post that you went crazy over was a joke, but your replies have shown your lack of understanding. You actually implied that Rudy's worried about Catholic votes in New York and California when Evangelicals are going to do more than any other voting block to decide the Republicans nomination. If you take Southern and Midwestern Evangelicals out of the picture Rudy would already be the presumptive nominee.

Electability is huge for Giuliani. What does it do to his campaign when James Dobson and other leading Evangelicals threaten to run a third party candidate if he is nominated? He is OBVIOUSLY trying to put forth an image of a man whose religion is his moral compass. It's not about being one of them; it's about making them believe his election wouldn't threaten their agenda.

[Tsa`ah]

You don't know. The initial post that you went crazy over was a joke, but your replies have shown your lack of understanding. You actually implied that Rudy's worried about Catholic votes in New York and California when Evangelicals are going to do more than any other voting block to decide the Republicans nomination. If you take Southern and Midwestern Evangelicals out of the picture Rudy would already be the presumptive nominee.

Electability is huge for Giuliani. What does it do to his campaign when James Dobson and other leading Evangelicals threaten to run a third party candidate if he is nominated? He is OBVIOUSLY trying to put forth an image of a man whose religion is his moral compass. It's not about being one of them; it's about making them believe his election wouldn't threaten their agenda.

Ding ding

[chillmonster]

This doesn't change that, like a moron, you state that Rudy hires Catholic priests to make himself look more religious to non-Catholics.

Even though being Catholic or having Catholic connections doesn't win you an automatic vote from Catholics maybe it's still a good idea to have something in common with a 1/4th of the country- call me crazy. Although let's be clear this will not help you if you're trying to seem more friendly to Pentecostals... as any child of a Pentecostal will tell you.

Why do you keep talking aobut 1/4 of the country? We're not in the general. This is about the Republican nomination. That's where you seem to be confused.

[Clove]

Why do you keep talking aobut 1/4 of the country? We're not in the general. This is about the Republican nomination. That's where you seem to be confused.

You so weren't joking.

I didn't say he was "worried" about the "Catholic vote" I have been pointing out that a large segement of the country, particularly in the primary States he's leading, are Catholic- and gee perhaps that's why he wants to stay as friendly as possible with that camp as a result and not as you said (jokingly :lol:) as an attempt to seem more religious to non-Catholics.

I realize we aren't in the general. I also realize that you'd run a horrible political campaign if you consider ties (however weak) with such a large group useless.

[chillmonster]

You so weren't joking.

I didn't say he was "worried" about the "Catholic vote" I have been pointing out that a large segement of the country, particularly in the primary States he's leading, are Catholic- and gee perhaps that's why he wants to stay as friendly as possible with that camp as a result and not as you said (jokingly :lol:) as an attempt to seem more religious to non-Catholics.

I realize we aren't in the general. I also realize that you'd run a horrible political campaign if you consider ties (however weak) with such a large group useless.

There is no substantial Catholic camp. And if you think I was seriously suggesting that he should fake speaking in tongues at the next debate, you're mistaken - again.

[Clove]

There is no substantial Catholic camp. And if you think I was seriously suggesting that he should fake speaking in tongues at the next debate, you're mistaken - again.

You done yet? In hindsight you're correct. Your entire post was a joke.

[Tsa`ah]

If this were bizzaro world, I'd say that your response was brilliant.

[Clove]

If this were bizzaro world, I'd say that your response was brilliant.

Like the brilliance of deciding umpteen posts into an argument to say "Hey! I was only joking in the first place!"?

[chillmonster]

Like the brilliance of deciding umpteen posts into an argument to say "Hey! I was only joking in the first place!"?

Read the post. If you don't think that was a joke, you're from Mars.

[CrystalTears]

Read the post. If you don't think that was a joke, you're from Mars.
If it was meant as a joke, you should have said so after the first reply towards what you stated, rather than argue back and forth and then proclaim OMG KIDDING at the end.

[chillmonster]

If it was meant as a joke, you should have said so after the first reply towards what you stated, rather than argue back and forth and then proclaim OMG KIDDING at the end.

Kidding about what? The initial post that said Rudy should fake speaking in tongues at the debate or the FACT that Guiliani is pandering towards Evangelicals? Read the entire thread and understand the context or shut the hell up.

[DeV]

If it was meant as a joke, you should have said so after the first reply towards what you stated, rather than argue back and forth and then proclaim OMG KIDDING at the end.
The best way for him to get the nomination is to fake recieving the Holy Ghost during the next debate.

How the hell is someone construe that as serious?

[Clove]

The best way for him to get the nomination is to fake recieving the Holy Ghost during the next debate.

How the hell is someone construe that as serious?

Nobody did. This is what we call a smoke-screen.

[Clove]

I think his campaign thinks his close friendship with a priest would provide enough of a benefit in the eyes of evangelicals to mitigate the risk.

Retarded statement.



He obviously doesn't know the religious fanatics down here. Catholic is one step from atheist (which is synonymous with communist).

Opinion/speculation



The best way for him to get the nomination is to fake recieving the Holy Ghost during the next debate.

http://www.colmww.org/worshipcenter/assets/photos/matthewReceivingTheHolyGhost.jpg

Humor.

[chillmonster]

Nobody did. This is what we call a smoke-screen.

What am I trying to hide? That you lack understanding about Evangelical influence in Republican politics or that my assertion that he should fake speaking in tongues is a joke?

[Clove]

What am I trying to hide? That you lack understanding about Evangelical influence in Republican politics or that my assertion that he should fake speaking in tongues is a joke?

That your serious(ly) retarded statement that his campaign thinks hiring a priest will help him with the Evangelicals is somehow less retarded by pointing out your comment about speaking in tongues was a joke (which I never commented on in the first place).

[CrystalTears]

The best way for him to get the nomination is to fake recieving the Holy Ghost during the next debate.

How the hell is someone construe that as serious?
That line isn't what was being debated.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Has anyone considered that he may be attempting to win the child molester vote?

[Clove]

Has anyone considered that he may be attempting to win the child molester vote?

FTW!

[DeV]

That line isn't what was being debated.I quoted that line because it was the most obvious. I read the post in jest, but maybe that's just me. He even replied with a lol... and teed... well, urban dictionary can give you the meaning of that word.

[Clove]

I quoted that line because it was the most obvious. I read the post in jest, but maybe that's just me. He even replied with a lol... and teed... well, urban dictionary can give you the meaning of that word.

A kitten's vagina?

See and since he launched into an argument I assumed his lol and teed was "I'm laughing at your post and it's teed (fucked up)" not "my entire post was humor." I'm used to people posting "that was a joke dumbass" when I miss it, instead.

Whether his post about Rudy's campaign associating with a Catholic priest to pander to the Evangelicals was a joke is open to interpretation, I suppose. Obviously I took it seriously. Especially when he tries to elaborate on it (see quote below) rather than say "that wasn't a serious comment" from the very beginning as I would have expected (were it a joke).


He's trying to prove his religious credentials, and I'm under no illusion that he or his staff believes his close association with a priest will prompt Evangelicals to suddenly embrace him. His goal is to make them just comfortable enough with his religious credentials to allow what he feels are his strength (national security, electability) to trump their reservations about social issues and garner enough Evangelical support to win him the nomination.

[DeV]

A kitten's vagina?

See and since he launched into an argument I assumed his lol and teed was "I'm laughing at your post and it's teed (fucked up)" not "my entire post was humor." I'm used to people posting "that was a joke dumbass" when I miss it, instead.

Whether his post about Rudy's campaign associating with a Catholic priest to pander to the Evangelicals was a joke is open to interpretation, I suppose. Obviously I took it seriously. Especially when he tries to elaborate on it (see quote below) rather than say "that wasn't a serious comment" from the very beginning as I would have expected (were it a joke).He was humoring you and giving you the benefit of the doubt. Lighten up.

[Clove]

He was humoring you and giving you the benefit of the doubt. Lighten up.

No. He wasn't.

[DeV]

No. He wasn't.Oh wait, that was me. Lighten up, it still isn't that serious.

[Clove]

Oh wait, that was me. Lighten up, it still isn't that serious.

Yeah but I have nothing but :love: for DeV. Chill-lash's dumb suppositions irratate me. Call it a weakness.

[Clove]

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/08/obama-to-declare-win-come-hill-or-high-water/


Barack Obama is looking at May 20 as the end date for his Democratic primary run, even though that date won’t seal the deal.

After a victory in North Carolina on Tuesday night and a closer-than-expected loss in Indiana, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said that, based on calculations, Obama will win a majority of pledged delegates on May 20.

West Virginia votes Tuesday, and Kentucky and Oregon follow on the 20th. Hillary Clinton is expected to win West Virginia and Kentucky, while Obama is banking on victory in Oregon.

Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe told FOXNews.com on Thursday that the Obama camp’s plan to declare victory based on a pledged delegate majority is “meaningless.” He said that a candidate will need a majority of the pledged delegates and the unpledged superdelegates combined to be the true winner.

“Until you get to twenty-twenty-five or twenty-two-oh-nine, none of this matters,” McAuliffe said, referring to the numbers being bandied about as the number of votes needed.

“In order to have a majority of the delegates seated at the national convention, that’s how you get to become the nominee, not the pledged,” McAuliffe said.

“If that’s the case, take everyone of the superdelegates away from him, if he doesn’t care about them.”

The Democrats will have 3,253 pledged delegates and 796 superdelegates at the Democratic National Convention, if Michigan and Florida are excluded. Without those two states, the eventual Democratic nominee will need 2,025 delegates. If those states’ delegations are ultimately seated, then a candidate will need 2,209 delegates to secure the nomination.

The Democratic National Committee decided to refuse to seat Michigan’s 157 delegates and Florida’s 211 delegates at the August convention because those states held their primaries ahead of Super Tuesday, Feb. 5, in violation of the party’s rules.

Clinton won the primaries in both states, although neither she nor Obama campaigned in either state; Obama’s name was not even on the ballot in Michigan.

The Michigan DNC has offered a plan to divvy up its delegates, 69-59, essentially coming up with a middle ground between the two campaigns to have the state’s delegates counted.

McAuliffe said he had not had time to review Michigan’s plan to divide the delegates, but he can’t imagine they’d be excluded from the convention.

“I think we ought to get all the delegates. [Obama] took his name off the ballot, deliberately, politically; it’s a political decision which he made, which is fine, but they are going to give him all the uncommitted, I guess, John Edwards’ and everyone else’s,” he said.

Clinton said Wednesday that the two states should be included, because excluding them “would haunt us in the fall election, in my opinion. So 2,209 or 10 is the number, and at some point one of us will get there,” she said.

Still, even with Michigan and Florida included, the race is winding down. The final contests will be held in Montana and South Dakota on June 3, and McAuliffe said he expects the superdelegates to pledge their allegiances within weeks after that date.

“I think out of respect for the six upcoming contests, they want them to vote and after that they are going to move very quickly,” he said. “They want to be part of the nominating process, so I think they all start moving very quickly and I think it’s over in a couple weeks. It is never going to the convention.”

Meanwhile, Clinton continues to make her argument for going forward, claiming she will be more electable than Obama against John McCain in November

“I’m winning Catholic voters and Hispanic voters and blue-collar voters and seniors — the kind of people that Senator McCain will be fighting for in the general election,” she said at a rally in Charleston, W.Va.

Taking a break from the campaign trail, Obama appeared on Capitol Hill Thursday, but denied that he was taking a victory lap when he headed over to the House side of the congressional campus and received rock-star treatment from pages and lawmakers alike.

“Everybody was very gracious,” he told FOX News Radio. “As I said before, I think our goal is to bring the party together as soon as possible. But we still have contests remaining, so in no way am I taking this for granted.

“We’re going to have to keep on working. Senator Clinton is a formidable candidate. She is very likely to win West Virginia and Kentucky, those are two states where she has insurmountable leads. We’re going to spend some time there, but we are also going to be going to Oregon and Montana and South Dakota and Puerto Rico (June 1).

“But in the meantime, I just wanted to make sure that I gave an update not only to my supporters but those who are also trying to figure out what direction to go in,” Obama said.

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What dya know, Chillmonster? A Presidential politician concerned about the Catholic vote? I was feeling left out of the thread-pwning.