Smoking ban permeates into multi-residence homes.

[Gan]

The Belmont City Council on Tuesday night adopted a landmark ordinance regulating secondhand smoke in the city.

The ordinance passed on a 3-2 vote and will go into effect in 30 days, according to City Manager Jack Crist.

The ordinance was introduced by the City Council on Sept. 11, and then approved with a few wording changes at its Sept. 25 meeting.

Thought to be the first of its kind in California, the ordinance declares secondhand smoke a public nuisance and extends the city's current smoking ban to include multi-unit, multi-story residences.

Though Belmont and some other California cities already restrict smoking in multi-unit common areas, Belmont is the first city to extend secondhand smoke regulation to the inside of individual apartment units.

Smoking will still be allowed in single-family homes and their yards, and units and yards in apartment buildings, condominiums and townhouses that do not share any common floors or ceilings with other units.

The ban for multi-unit apartment buildings will not take effect for an additional 14 months after the ordinance is passed, so that one-year lease agreements will be unaffected.

Smoking will be permitted only in designated outdoor areas of multi-unit housing.

Additionally, smoking will not be allowed in indoor and outdoor workplaces, or in parks, stadiums, sports fields, trails and outdoor shopping areas.

Smoking on city streets and sidewalks will be permitted under the ordinance, except in the location of city-sponsored events or in close proximity to prohibited areas.

more...
http://www.nbc11.com/news/14307719/detail.html
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Interesting precedent.

What do you guys think?

[Sean of the Thread]

I think the gov has to sack up and either ban tobacco completely or stfu about smoking in your own home.

[Trouble]

While I'd like this rule in my building, I can see it being a bit too far in most places. I can smell my neighbors' smoke often, especially in my bathrooms where it seems to come in through the ventilation registers.

[Sean of the Thread]

You like it at the expense of other home owners? Do they have rights?


What's next..???? they don't like the smell of your morning shit so you should be jailed?

[JohnDoe]

I hate smoking. Can't stand it.

That said, all of these smoking laws are bullshit. It should be up to the person who owns the establishment to determine whether or not they allow smoking in there. And if an establishment does allow smoking, then it's your right not to go into their place. It was only a matter of time before laws would be proposed to ban smoking within residential areas too.

Maybe they should start selling smoking licenses like they do alcohol licenses.

[JohnDoe]

You like it at the expense of other home owners? Do they have rights?


What's next..???? they don't like the smell of your morning shit so you should be jailed?
Exactly. No cooking fish, garlic, onions, etc.

[Numbers]

Outlaw tobacco.
Legalize marijuana.

Fair trade.

[Kembal]

Hrm. I find this questionable. It almost certainly seems unconstitutional in the case of a multi-unit building where the residents own their apartments (like a co-op)...I say almost, because Kelo v. New London really screwed my understanding of the Takings Clause.

However, in a landlord-tenant situation, it's a bit more complicated.

That said, while I view smoking and the tobacco industry as one of the greatest evils perpetrated on mankind, it seems like a violation of property rights to me.

[Bartlett]

Exactly. No cooking fish, garlic, onions, etc.

Except the smell of fish and garlic and fish etc. is not going to increase the likelihood of of your child developing asthma, etc, etc. It isn't much different than having someone call the cops on you because you are blasting your stereo in the middle of the night keeping people awake. They have determined that second hand smoke is a nuisance (which is a generous description at best,) and the effects of secondhand smoke are signifigant enough that you are infringing upon your neighbors in close quarters like that. Generally, you have the right to do about anything, as long as it doesn't signifigantly impede another person in a way the government decides is reasonable.


I think the gov has to sack up and either ban tobacco completely or stfu about smoking in your own home.

Option 1 isn't a bad idea in my opinion either. This is a whole other dead horse, but I can't really say I have ever heard a decent argument as to why we should be smoking. "It's my right to poison myself and those around me," and "The government makes a bunch of money off it," don't count as good reasons in my mind.

[Whimsi]

It'd be nice to not worry about my neighbor going to sleep with a lit cigarette and burning my apartment complex to the ground.

Other than that I couldn't care less if someone smokes or not in their own unit.

[Whimsi]

oh and it's far, far easier to smell people smoking outside when I am in my apartment. Even with windows closed. Dunno why that is.

[TheEschaton]

The reason Kelo fucks up your understanding of the Takings Clause is because it was decided wrongly.

Private income of large companies who will have nominal minimum wage jobs != compelling state interest in taking your land.

[Parkbandit]

It's a dumb law by dumb people in a dumb state. Why is everyone surprised?

Next will be no guns in apartments or condos. Wait for it.

[Clove]

I say almost, because Kelo v. New London really screwed my understanding of the Takings Clause...

Confused a lot of us in Connecticut too.

[Clove]

It'd be nice to not worry about my neighbor going to sleep with a lit cigarette and burning my apartment complex to the ground.

Other than that I couldn't care less if someone smokes or not in their own unit.

It would probably be nice if you didn't have to worry about another tenant getting drunk and starting fire accidentally either; say passing out after putting something on the stove to cook. Would you agree to a policy banning alchohol (or getting drunk) in individual apartments?

[Latrinsorm]

You like it at the expense of other home owners? Do they have rights?Let's see, which is more important.. the right to enjoy smoky nicotine or the right to not get cancer? Hmmmmm.
I think the gov has to sack up and either ban tobacco completely or stfu about smoking in your own home.What's interesting to me about this case is how the federalist candidates will address (exploit) it.

[Clove]

Let's see, which is more important.. the right to enjoy smoky nicotine or the right to not get cancer...

The right to not get cancer; now just prove that smoking in my apartment will cause you to get cancer in your apartment.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<This is a whole other dead horse, but I can't really say I have ever heard a decent argument as to why we should be smoking. "It's my right to poison myself and those around me," and "The government makes a bunch of money off it," don't count as good reasons in my mind.>>

But alcohol is totally cool and not responsible for any harm, right?

[Clove]

... but I can't really say I have ever heard a decent argument as to why we should be smoking. "It's my right to poison myself and those around me," ...

For the record I quit smoking years ago. Prove that smokers are really poisoning those in connected apartments to a significance approaching or exceeding say automobile exhaust.

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm pretty sure driving a car in an apartment building is illegal.

[Clove]

I'm pretty sure driving a car in an apartment building is illegal. Because I just got my license and it says in the manual...

...

[Bobmuhthol]

Yes. I just got my license. Just now. And "the manual" covers driving inside homes. Fucking idiot.

[Clove]

Yes. I just got my license. Just now. And "the manual" covers driving inside homes. Fucking idiot.

Now, now child- if you can poke fun at me, I can poke fun at you. Retard.

[Whimsi]

It would probably be nice if you didn't have to worry about another tenant getting drunk and starting fire accidentally either; say passing out after putting something on the stove to cook. Would you agree to a policy banning alchohol (or getting drunk) in individual apartments?

With my current neighbors?

Fuck yes. They are dumb as a bag of hammers.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Bob
I'm pretty sure driving a car in an apartment building is illegal.

So I'm guessing you've never been in an underground parking garage for an apt complex?

[LazyBard]

With my current neighbors?

Fuck yes. They are dumb as a bag of hammers.

your personal feeling or opinion of your current neighbors shouldnt effect your judgement on what should be allowed and what shouldnt be.

I keep picturing the movie Demolition Man (yes I know corney movie) with Sylvester Stallone & Wesley Snipes.


Lenina Huxley: [A]nything not good for you is bad, hence, illegal. Alcohol, caffeine, contact sports, meat . . .
John Spartan: Are you sh**ing me?
A computer: John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute.
John Spartan: What the Hell is that?
A computer: John Spartan, you are fined one credit . . .
Lenina Huxley: Bad language, child play, gasoline, uneducational toys, and anything spicy. Abortion is also illegal. But, then again so is pregnancy, if you don't have a license.

[Clove]

With my current neighbors?

Fuck yes. They are dumb as a bag of hammers.

Whimsi FTW!

[Latrinsorm]

For the record I quit smoking years ago. Prove that smokers are really poisoning those in connected apartments to a significance approaching or exceeding say automobile exhaust.You know you're right, we should have some sort of test that people's automobiles have to undergo to make sure the gasses they emit are at an appropriately safe level. Maybe call it an "emissions test" for short? I don't know, do you guys think that would catch on?

[Clove]

You know you're right, we should have some sort of test that people's automobiles have to undergo to make sure the gasses they emit are at an appropriately safe level. Maybe call it an "emissions test" for short? I don't know, do you guys think that would catch on?

Hey! You're right Latrin! Why don't you go take one of those emission tested cars and run it in a closed garage for an hour or so and get back to me.

[CrystalTears]

Hey! You're right Latrin! Why don't you go take one of those emission tested cars and run it in a closed garage for an hour or so and get back to me.
OMG if he doesn't get back to you, that would be so cool, and point for you!

[Jolena]

Hey! You're right Latrin! Why don't you go take one of those emission tested cars and run it in a closed garage for an hour or so and get back to me.


:rofl: FTW

[Latrinsorm]

Hey! You're right Latrin! Why don't you go take one of those emission tested cars and run it in a closed garage for an hour or so and get back to me.I can't, I'm not done researching whether or not cigarettes give you cancer so I can address your other point. :(

[Clove]

I can't, I'm not done researching whether or not cigarettes give you cancer so I can address your other point. :(

You're just not committed enough. Take a pack of cigarettes with you and keep one lit in an ashtray while you run the car in the garage. If you get lung cancer before the car exhaust kills you we'll have our answer. But no cheating, use only a car that has safely passed its emissions testing.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Latrinsorm
You know you're right, we should have some sort of test that people's automobiles have to undergo to make sure the gasses they emit are at an appropriately safe level. Maybe call it an "emissions test" for short? I don't know, do you guys think that would catch on?

Aren't you one of the champions of science being less than concrete when it comes to this kind of thing?

[Gan]

WTF?

Cant you multi-task?

[Celephais]

Okay, everything gives you cancer, ban your neighbors talking on their cell phones... etc. I agree it should be the proprietors of an establishment that get to decide, but boy do I hate smoking... so I'm going to go to my goto phrase of the day... Fuck em.

[Sean]

I don't smoke so it's never been an issue for me but I will say the smoking ban from bars is nice because I don't come home smelling like stale cigs.

[Celephais]

I don't smoke so it's never been an issue for me but I will say the smoking ban from bars is nice because I don't come home smelling like stale cigs.
I agree, nobodies car emissions has ever made me come home smelling like an ash tray... I want to be able to destroy my liver and wake up only smelling of booze, and chicken wings.

[Latrinsorm]

Aren't you one of the champions of science being less than concrete when it comes to this kind of thing?I'm the champion of pointing out that science doesn't strictly speaking prove causation. This doesn't in any way suggest that I don't believe empirical conclusions: just that I recognize they aren't (strictly speaking) deductive findings.
Cant you multi-task?No (reliable) wireless. :(

[Alfster]

Meh, I"m a smoker so I clearly have a biased opinion.

I don't smoke indoors because it gets overwhelming...personal choice. Personal Choice. Personal Choice. Personal Choice. Personal Choice.
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[Hulkein]

I don't smoke so it's never been an issue for me but I will say the smoking ban from bars is nice because I don't come home smelling like stale cigs.

2x

[Gan]

I have no sympathy for smoking, in any shape, form, or fashion.

Find a way for second hand smoke to not affect those around you and I dont care if you smoke a pack at a time in front of me. Until then, take that shit somewhere else.

http://www.neandernews.com/wp-content/themes/images/oldwomancigar.jpg

[Sean of the Thread]

Exactly.

You can decide to goto smoking bars and smoke and or endure it... or you can to non smoking bars.

Simple.

[Hulkein]

It's not that simple. Bars are afraid of losing customer's if they ban smoking when the bar next door does not, so they don't ban it. This forces the people who work there to suffer. Sometimes a region-wide ban is the best way to do it. If the residents are that pissed off, elect someone who will get rid of the legislation.

[Clove]

It's not that simple. Bars are afraid of losing customer's if they ban smoking when the bar next door does not, so they don't ban it. This forces the people who work there to suffer. Sometimes a region-wide ban is the best way to do it. If the residents are that pissed off, elect someone who will get rid of the legislation.

If a large segment of the market does NOT tolerate smoking, establishments will cater to them.