Graduated or Flat

[Sean of the Thread]

Time to vote.

[Khariz]

Neither.

Fair.

[Clove]

Value Added baby.

[Gan]

Need more selections. :p

Graduated as long as loopholes exist.

Flat if its truly flat with no loopholes.

Bottom line is that people should pay (be responsible) for what they utilize.

[Warriorbird]

More selections.

[Nieninque]

Rich should pay more tax, poor should pay less.

[Celephais]

Graduated as long as loopholes exist.

Flat if its truly flat with no loopholes.
Out of curiosity, what loopholes are you looking for?

[Clove]

Need more selections. :p

Graduated as long as loopholes exist.

Flat if its truly flat with no loopholes.

There should also be a:

Stanley Burrell Option (We should make all taxes orange)

Backlash Option (We should have a graduated flat tax)

TheE Option ( We should tax incomes higher than mine 80%)

[Sean of the Thread]

Ok more selections should have been included IF wasn't only basing this on the argument in the other thread.

But I agree. I think we need a real tax debate thread on the boards. Someone start a thread I'm too tired/lazy to do so.

[CrystalTears]

I'd rather have a sales tax change, but if I have to decide on an income tax choice, I go with flat tax.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'd rather have a sales tax change, but if I have to decide on an income tax choice, I go with flat tax.

Sales tax is already 7-8% here. So if you eliminate income tax what would you set the sales tax at.. curious

[Kembal]

Graduated taxes, based on what's offered in this poll.

I'd like to see our primary funding source be a VAT, but I don't think that'll happen here.

[CrystalTears]

Sales tax is already 7-8% here. So if you eliminate income tax what would you set the sales tax at.. curious
It would have to be much higher, say probably in the 20's, however food, clothing and some services would be exempt.

I believe more in keeping what you earn and deciding what to spend it on, or not spend and save/invest.

[Stanley Burrell]

WE MUST TAX ORANGES.

Edited to add: AND CITRUS.

[Clove]

Graduated taxes, based on what's offered in this poll.

I'd like to see our primary funding source be a VAT, but I don't think that'll happen here.

That's because you're a rational being.

[Clove]

Sales tax is already 7-8% here. So if you eliminate income tax what would you set the sales tax at.. curious

Something between 18-24% Federal sales tax (Value Added or VAT) is what experts suggest would be needed to eliminate income tax.

[Gan]

There should also be a:

Stanley Burrell Option (We should make all taxes orange)

Backlash Option (We should have a graduated flat tax)

TheE Option ( We should tax incomes higher than mine 80%)

:lol:

The last option could be called a Hypocrisy Tax.

[Celephais]

:lol:

The last option could be called a Hypocrisy Tax.

TheEpocricy Tax...?

[chillmonster]

I'd like to see a .6% tax on all monetary transactions done in the United Sates along with a slightly higher tax on all imports and imported components of US made goods.

In theory the Graduated tax works, but our government has written in so many loopholes that the richest and poorest Americans pay very little, while everyone in the middle carries the brunt of the load. With our huge tax code and our government passing legislation like ridiculously complex, industry written energy bills, what's become painfully evident is simplicity=transparency=fairness. I just can't see anything simpler.

[Drew]

In theory the Graduated tax works, but our government has written in so many loopholes that the richest and poorest Americans pay very little, while everyone in the middle carries the brunt of the load. With our huge tax code and our government passing legislation like ridiculously complex, industry written energy bills, what's become painfully evident is simplicity=transparency=fairness. I just can't see anything simpler.


You do know who pays the vast majority of our taxes, right?

[senorgordoburro]

Heh, the only good thing about me deploying is that I don't pay any taxes while in a combat zone (7-8 months) and then my taxable wages for the rest of the year are drastically lower and it puts me in a great tax bracket. Especially considering that the military is not taxed for there first 15,000 made every year. So between the first 15 grand of stateside pay, and 7 or 8 months of nontaxable income, I think that I'm pretty much a drain on society.

your :welcome:

[chillmonster]

You do know who pays the vast majority of our taxes, right?

You're right. I should have said paying the largest amount of their income. Warren Buffet himself said that because of the loopholes he has access to, he KNOWs he pays a lower tax rate than most Americans.

[AestheticDeath]

Lower tax rate, can still mean 2000% more dollars from him than from someone else.

Some billionaire paying .1% of his income still brings in more than a middle class person paying 30%.

Yes I pulled the numbers from nowhere, but you get the point.

[CrystalTears]

So what percentage of their income do you feel the "rich" should be paying?

*I said "rich" because no one seems to want to give a ballpark figure of what that is.

[AestheticDeath]

Please know that I never studied up on this type of stuff, so any and all arguments are just me trying to learn more about it.

I am still wondering why its a percentage.
Why not a flat rate? If you can't pay the flat rate, you don't get any benefits. IE if you sit on your ass at home, no medicare, no SS etc..

And just because your able to make more money than someone else doesn't mean you should have to pay more than someone else in taxs.

Obviously if they did that - there wouldn't be enough money to run the government, at least the way they do it now. But I don't see that they should have a larger burden than others just because they are more successful.


Someone chime in with how taxs, and healthcare and stuff work in the UK?

[Sean of the Thread]

Someone chime in with how taxs, and healthcare and stuff work in the UK?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Hammer_and_sickle.png

[chillmonster]

To someone with kids making 20,000 a year, a flat 25% tax rate means deciding between milk and electricity.

A .6% tax on all transactions would tax people and corporations based on the amount of benefit they recieve from doing business/working/living in the US. It's automatically a gratuated tax because the more you have, the more you spend and more of your money switches from one place to another. It eliminates the estate tax along with the rest of the tax code and most of the IRS.

[Sean of the Thread]

To someone with kids making 20,000 a year, a flat 25% tax rate means deciding between milk and electricity.
.

Uhm.. that's not how the flat tax works.


You're fucking D U M B.

[CrystalTears]

chillmonster probably voted C

[Keller]

Replacing the income tax with sales tax would mean a graduated sales tax. Essentials being non-taxed and pure luxuries being 50%+.

Do most of you understand what an "externality" is? That word made me want to go into tax law. The concept that a tax is fundamentally a correction for unpaid costs/benefits associated with any given activity just made so much sense. Once you get your head wrapped around what an externality is and how it can be effectively used is the foundation for making an informed opinion regarding what tax is efficient.

[Warriorbird]

The flat tax has problems in some areas even from a conservative perspective. I much prefer the Fair Tax.

[chillmonster]

Uhm.. that's not how the flat tax works.


You're fucking D U M B.

I was answering AD. "If you can't pay the tax rate, you don't get any benefits."

You must be PB.

[chillmonster]

chillmonster probably voted C

LMFAO. I want to assume from the sheer number of posts you have that you can't be PB, but it's like a GS charater that's been sold. There are 4 or 5 people on here who sould EXACTLY like him.

[CrystalTears]

Uh.. okay. Just because some feel that you could be Backlash because you're being as pig-headed as him, and you tend to post articles just like him, doesn't mean that the rest of us MA the boards. And I'm one of the ones who doesn't feel you are Backlash, just someone else as drunk and insane. Take that however you want. :tongue:

[Sean of the Thread]

I was answering AD. "If you can't pay the tax rate, you don't get any benefits."

You must be PB.

You must be D U M B

[chillmonster]

Uh.. okay. Just because some feel that you could be Backlash because you're being as pig-headed as him, and you tend to post articles just like him, doesn't mean that the rest of us MA the boards. And I'm one of the ones who doesn't feel you are Backlash, just someone else as drunk and insane. Take that however you want. :tongue:

Please tell me how I'm pig-headed?

And I wasn't referring to everyone - just the 2 handles that I know are PB, and you and Sean2, who just sound exactly like him. Truth is, I'm not so sure about you; Seah2, I'd put money on it.

Also, it doesn't really bother me when someone thinks differently, or that you can't seem to disagree without insulting someone. It's actually kind of funny. As you can see, I've never insulted you (unless you count saying that you sould like PB). It's just those who obviously invest a lot their time in insulting others online who I find pathetic. You have to find it a bit weird that a 40 year old spends all this time trolling on 3 or 4 different screen names. You expect me to not say that's sad and pathetic?

[Sean of the Thread]

You're fucking nuts.

oh and D U M B.

[Kembal]

Replacing the income tax with sales tax would mean a graduated sales tax. Essentials being non-taxed and pure luxuries being 50%+.

Essentially how a VAT would shake out, though 50% is on the high side.


Do most of you understand what an "externality" is? That word made me want to go into tax law. The concept that a tax is fundamentally a correction for unpaid costs/benefits associated with any given activity just made so much sense. Once you get your head wrapped around what an externality is and how it can be effectively used is the foundation for making an informed opinion regarding what tax is efficient.

Taxation based on externalities isn't done well here. It really needs to be.

[Sean of the Thread]

That will be a .30 cent "answering externality questions correctly" tax.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

WUT IZ TACKSES?

*votes C*

I actually see merits in both systems but for now I think a revised graduated tax would be best.

[CrystalTears]

And I wasn't referring to everyone - just the 2 handles that I know are PB
PB only posts as PB and I only post as CT.


You have to find it a bit weird that a 40 year old spends all this time trolling on 3 or 4 different screen names. And I find it weird that you think he posts as more than one, instead of just figuring that more than one person has the same viewpoint and/or agree with each other.


You expect me to not say that's sad and pathetic? You're worse than he is with the wrong theories and conclusions about people's posting behaviors.

[Latrinsorm]

PB's has been disproven by a moderator, though. That's got to count for something.

[chillmonster]

PB only posts as PB and I only post as CT.

And I find it weird that you think he posts as more than one, instead of just figuring that more than one person has the same viewpoint and/or agree with each other.

You're worse than he is with the wrong theories and conclusions about people's posting behaviors.

I'm not the only one on here who believes PB has more than one screen name. How is it that you find someone who's generally respectful to everyone else worse than someone who goes out of his way to insult anyone he doesn't agree with?

And I'm beginning to think the guy actually believes I'm Backlash. At first I just thought it was more assholish behavior. But whatever, I'm done with this subject.

[CrystalTears]

You're done with this subject all because I said you probably voted option C? :rofl: Oh okay.

[Snapp]

PB's has been disproven by a moderator, though. That's got to count for something.

Exactly.

And I'm also going to confirm that PB and CT are in fact the same person.


::runs for cover::

[Stanley Burrell]

Holy hard hornballs, great googly moogly and jinkies! I've figured it out:

Everyone...

















































































Taxes should be orange:

http://www.jcrocket.com/images/crayons/orangecrayon.jpg

Definitely orange.

[Sean of the Thread]

Everyone knows PB = Harmnone

Crystal Tears = Leetahkin

[Stanley Burrell]

And Xyelin = way above the legal BAC, dofl.

[Keller]

Taxation based on externalities isn't done well here. It really needs to be.

Very true. But I think understanding what an externality is and how to correct for them through the tax system is how we come up with an efficient tax system. Otherwise people can blindly throw their allegence behind the Taxes are Orange system without really understanding what a tax is or why is should/should not be implemented.

[chillmonster]

Replacing the income tax with sales tax would mean a graduated sales tax. Essentials being non-taxed and pure luxuries being 50%+.

Do most of you understand what an "externality" is? That word made me want to go into tax law. The concept that a tax is fundamentally a correction for unpaid costs/benefits associated with any given activity just made so much sense. Once you get your head wrapped around what an externality is and how it can be effectively used is the foundation for making an informed opinion regarding what tax is efficient.

How do you base a tax system on something so subjective? Do you expect US politicians to agree on a monetary value for every externality from scenery to noise? I still think simplicity=fairness when it comes to taxes especially when 90% of your politicians are smart and crooked and the other 10% are dumb and crooked.

[Sean of the Thread]

You guys have seen Popeye right?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

This still raises the question, Stanley.. what exact HUE of orange?

Burnt orange? Regular orange? Light orange?! Orange-yellow?

[Stanley Burrell]

Vorpal Dhe'nar Void Orange. Orange.

And tangerine :spin:

[Keller]

How do you base a tax system on something so subjective? Do you expect US politicians to agree on a monetary value for every externality from scenery to noise? I still think simplicity=fairness when it comes to taxes especially when 90% of your politicians are smart and crooked and the other 10% are dumb and crooked.

I applaud your effort to find out what an externality is. While scenery and noise are common examples, I think they are used for simplicities sake.

Other common examples of externalities are common budget items: roads, schools, and security. All of which have readily ascertainable values. Are you a trucking company? Then, in an ideal world, you pay a tax rate based on the miles your trucks travel. Hell, I'd even be in favor of different rates for winter miles (which are more taxing on roads) and summer miles. Obviously this will never ever happen -- but I think understanding that what we're paying for when we pay taxes is the unaccounted for costs of our behavior is fundamental to creating an efficient tax system. Or, more accurately, IDEALLY what we pay for is the unaccounted for costs of our behavior.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'm a fan of INDIAN ORANGE myself.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I'm a fan of INDIAN ORANGE myself.

Wouldn't that crayola rather be called NATIVE AMERICAN orange?!

[AestheticDeath]

More probably they would be insulted at being called a color, and demand their name be taken off the Crayola.


.... happened where I live. McMurry Indians were told to remove the "Indians' from their name. They now have no mascot.

[chillmonster]

I applaud your effort to find out what an externality is. While scenery and noise are common examples, I think they are used for simplicities sake.

Other common examples of externalities are common budget items: roads, schools, and security. All of which have readily ascertainable values. Are you a trucking company? Then, in an ideal world, you pay a tax rate based on the miles your trucks travel. Hell, I'd even be in favor of different rates for winter miles (which are more taxing on roads) and summer miles. Obviously this will never ever happen -- but I think understanding that what we're paying for when we pay taxes is the unaccounted for costs of our behavior is fundamental to creating an efficient tax system. Or, more accurately, IDEALLY what we pay for is the unaccounted for costs of our behavior.

I understand what externalities are, though obviously not to the extent of a tax lawyer. It just seems like special interests would fight to lower the value of many of the positive externalities that they utilize and minimize the value place on the negatives that they are responsible for. Then people who use schools, public transportation, etc would end up paying more than their fair share. Of course economists would come up with the figures, but someone from the Heritage Foundation would likely come up with different pollution numbers than someone from the Center for American Progress. I only took 3 econ classes in college, so let me know if I'm totally off base.

And didn't someone allude to that system being utilized somewhere? Where is that and how do they make it work?

[Daniel]

PB only posts as PB and I only post as CT.

.

Exactly. CT just rides PB's Jock at all times possible.

Nub.

[Clove]

How do you base a tax system on something so subjective? Do you expect US politicians to agree on a monetary value for every externality from scenery to noise? I still think simplicity=fairness when it comes to taxes especially when 90% of your politicians are smart and crooked and the other 10% are dumb and crooked.

Keller is once again dead on. It isn't as complicated as all that Chillmonster. Our government determines what we the constituents require it to perform, budget its costs and then "bill" us in taxes.

[Clove]

I'm a fan of INDIAN ORANGE myself.

Agent Orange.

[TheEschaton]

But again, what if a Republican Government decides to say certain industries don't pollute as much as they actually do?

Or if a Democratic government decides to say that certain unions don't do whatever as much as they actually do?

It seems far more subject to politics than an administrative tax code.

[TheEschaton]

P.S. Taxing people above me 80% would be hilarious. I believe a graduated tax is better than a flat tax, but I think it should be capped around 44%.

-TheE-

[Trouble]

Need more selections. :p

Graduated as long as loopholes exist.

Flat if its truly flat with no loopholes.

Bottom line is that people should pay (be responsible) for what they utilize.

Too lazy to read all 7 pages but I agree with Gan. If you're going to have a flat tax, eliminate deductions and loopholes. If you're going to keep them in, brackets are the best option IMO.