Obama - No Flag pin for me!

[Parkbandit]

'I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest'
OBAMA | Dem hopeful says American flag in lapel has become a substitute for 'true patriotism' since 9/11; GOP spokesman differs

October 5, 2007

Barack Obama says he no longer wears an American flag lapel pin because it has become a substitute for "true patriotism" since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

"My attitude is that I'm less concerned about what you're wearing on your lapel than what's in your heart," the Democratic White House hopeful told a crowd at a campaign appearance Thursday in Independence, Iowa.

WHAT HE SAID
Interviewer: One last quick question, and this is just kind of a lighter note, you don't have an American flag pin on; is this a fashion statement? Those have been on politicians since Sept. 12, 2001?

Barack Obama: You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin. Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest, instead I'm gonna try to tell the American people what I believe what will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testimony to my patriotism.

The question first came up in a TV interview Wednesday in Iowa.

"The truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin," Obama told a Cedar Rapids station. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security. I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest; instead I'm gonna try to tell the American people what I believe what will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testimony to my patriotism."

The Illinois senator's comments prompted a reaction from state Sen. Bill Brady (R-Bloomington), who heads up Republican presidential candidate Fred Thompson's Illinois effort.

"To say that it would be some sort of hypocrisy to wear the flag on your lapel is out of touch," Brady said. "I certainly don't mean that people who don't wear a lapel pin aren't patriotic -- but it's another thing to say that people who are wearing a lapel pin are falsely patriotic."

Brady's candidate, the former Tennessee senator and TV star, sports a lapel flag. Another flag wearer, Rudolph Giuliani, did not answer when a Sun-Times reporter asked the GOP presidential hopeful about Obama's comments at events in west suburban Glen Ellyn and in Chicago.

Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton, also in Chicago on Thursday, said she wears a flag pin "from time to time.

"I think there are so many ways that Americans can show their patriotism: wearing a flag pin; flying the flag; pledging allegiance to the flag; talking about the values that are important to America; teaching your children about what a great nation we have; standing up for those values; speaking out; there are just so many ways that one can demonstrate patriotism," the New York senator said.


__________________________________


I'm torn on this one... on one hand I think it's a dumb move as you give someone a small reason to question you.. on the other hand he is trying to solidify his crazy peacenik base.

It's not like he's going to get the nomination.. I guess he's just making his backers happy?

[Stanley Burrell]

It's gaudy as fuck to wear an American flag.

You seriously shouldn't have to wear your patriotism. It's not like any of the Fox News closet racists would vote for him anyway. Good for Obama, so sayeth I.

Also, the American Flag looks good as SHM's avatar.

[Gan]

I wear a flag pin on my suit jacket because it demonstrates the fact that I'm an American. The flag stands for what I support and believe in, and where I live.

Do I think any less for someone who doesnt wear one? No more or less than someone who does or does not wear a cross, or any other type of pin.

Its a personal thing. Nothing more, nothing less.

Obama's response a typical politician response looking for another reason to be on TV, in the news, etc.

If anything, it just opens up more opportunities for him to put his foot in his mouth.

[Clove]

I...Its a personal thing. Nothing more, nothing less.

Obama's response a typical politician response looking for another reason to be on TV, in the news, etc.

If anything, it just opens up more opportunities for him to put his foot in his mouth...

Amen. It's a decision that has no bearing on his potential as a leader. Non-issue, but great media fodder.

[Whimsi]

He's pandering to those liberals who think wearing the flag has become passe and overdone. In other words...those who don't think its cool.

[Ilvane]

Heh, sorry..not just liberals think it's passe and overdone.

Remember when everyone wore flags after 9/11? Everyone was flying their flags and fighting over flags in Wal-Mart.

Where is that patriotism now?

Anyway, this whole thing wasn't even news worthy, but some reporter decided to make a big deal out of the fact he wasn't wearing it.

Angela

[Gan]

Heh, sorry..not just liberals think it's passe and overdone.

Remember when everyone wore flags after 9/11? Everyone was flying their flags and fighting over flags in Wal-Mart.

Where is that patriotism now?
Funny, everyone I've ever known to have a flag in front of their house, on their car, etc. still have one. Do you fly a US flag on your property? Do you even own a US flag? Where is your patriotism? Thats just a really retarded thing to say...



Anyway, this whole thing wasn't even news worthy, but some reporter decided to make a big deal out of the fact he wasn't wearing it.

Angela
Agreed that it was a question thats not newsworthy. In fact most questions asked by the media/press rarely are. Its the stupid answers they evoke that's newsworthy. Given the opportunity, most politicians when asked a question will inevitably stick their foot in their mouth. So its always good odds to have a camera or a tape recorder on hand when it happens.

The great thing about these boards is, unless someone gets mad and deletes all their stupid posts in a thread, we dont need a camera or a tape recorder to capture that idiotic moment here.
:whistle:

[Clove]

The great thing about these boards is, unless someone gets mad and deletes all their stupid posts in a thread, we dont need a camera or a tape recorder to capture that idiotic moment here.
:whistle:

Nope just someone quick to quote (on the off chance the post gets edited or deleted).

[TheEschaton]

I can see Obama's point in terms that the flag has somehow become a substitute for actually acting patriotic, in many cases, IE, by wearing the flag pin, some people automatically call themselves patriotic....

...however, I would have never said it to a fucking reporter. They have nothing better to do than make a huge deal out of this.

-TheE-

[Sean of the Thread]

He's opposed to flags in his children's classroom as well.

[Parkbandit]

He's opposed to flags in his children's classroom as well.


Really? I hadn't read anything like this yet.

I couldn't vote for him before.. and certainly not now if this is true. The last thing I would ever vote for is a President who has a thing against the American Flag. Nice Commander in Chief he would make. :rofl:

[Sean of the Thread]

I dunno I made it up but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Tsa`ah]

Funny, everyone I've ever known to have a flag in front of their house, on their car, etc. still have one. Do you fly a US flag on your property? Do you even own a US flag? Where is your patriotism? Thats just a really retarded thing to say...

And so was that. What difference does a flag make in consideration of patriotism?

Who the fuck cares if the guy decides not to wear a flag pin ... outside of those trying to question his patriotism ... and Rush.

[Whimsi]

Lots of people don't wear a flag. But to have someone running for the highest office in the land make a consious decision not to wear one is troublesome.

[Kembal]

I applaud his reasoning to not wear it. After 9/11, I remember a bunch of Indian-Americans suddenly putting the flag on everything they own (their store, their car, etc.) in order to prevent people from attacking them. Apparently, displaying the flag showed off your patriotism/loyalty, and nothing else.

Patriotism in the U.S. should mean more than just displaying a symbol. (not that displaying the symbol is bad. It just shouldn't be the barometer of patriotism.) And if Obama's trying to get that message across, that's great.

[Sean of the Thread]

Bullshit.

[Nieninque]

Funny, everyone I've ever known to have a flag in front of their house, on their car, etc. still have one. Do you fly a US flag on your property? Do you even own a US flag? Where is your patriotism? Thats just a really retarded thing to say...

I don't own a British/English flag, pin, badge or anything else. I still consider myself patriotic. I love my country (despite strongly disliking certain aspects of it - but thats the same for anywhere). I dont consider flag-wearing a precursor of being patriotic.

To a certain extent, I kind of applaud what Obama did in saying "I dont need a token gimmick to show I am [insert whatever you like here]", but the sad part is that he is in danger of that concept itself becoming a gimmick all on it's own.

[Gan]

I wear a flag pin on my suit jacket because it demonstrates the fact that I'm an American. The flag stands for what I support and believe in, and where I live.

Do I think any less for someone who doesnt wear one? No more or less than someone who does or does not wear a cross, or any other type of pin.

Its a personal thing. Nothing more, nothing less.

Obama's response a typical politician response looking for another reason to be on TV, in the news, etc.

If anything, it just opens up more opportunities for him to put his foot in his mouth.


Funny, everyone I've ever known to have a flag in front of their house, on their car, etc. still have one. Do you fly a US flag on your property? Do you even own a US flag? Where is your patriotism? Thats just a really retarded thing to say...

Maybe I should have put the 2nd one in italics...

:banghead:

[Parkbandit]

I dunno I made it up but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Way to pull a TheE. If there isn't a real story to collaborate your side.. make one up and hope the opposition doesn't call you on it. If they do, then just say that if the real world is unjust, then you will use examples from your fantasy world.

You sicken me.

[TheEschaton]

Wait, what are you saying I made up now?

[Gan]

Way to pull a TheE. If there isn't a real story to collaborate your side.. make one up and hope the opposition doesn't call you on it. If they do, then just say that if the real world is unjust, then you will use examples from your fantasy world.

You sicken me.

:rofl:

[Latrinsorm]

You know who else doesn't wear a flag pin? OSAMA. Coincidence? :no:

I always thought it was a little tenuous to have the flag as a pin at all.

[Sean of the Thread]

Just like he doesn't need a tie?

Hmmmm.

[Gan]

A cuban neck-tie perhaps...

[Stanley Burrell]

You know who else doesn't wear a flag pin? OSAMA. Coincidence? :no:

I might as well join the Taliban if my American Flag gets stolen. Srsly.

Arm sashes and corporate consumerism are both pretty friggin' American, though. Put two and two together and you = U.S.A.!, U.S.A.!, U.S.A.! at its finest.

And for all those concerned parties, if you have a problem (not you specifically, good Ericsorm) with my vBulletin melodrama you can either:

A) Suck it.

[Stanley Burrell]

A cuban neck-tie perhaps...

That sounds hairy. I always thought it was Columbian, too.

[Parkbandit]

Wait, what are you saying I made up now?



Notice how PB simply insulted Chillmonster's spelling instead of addressing his claim that Matthews is a liberal in light of his hatred for Hillary and his love of Rudy.

Dumbass.

[TheEschaton]

Notice how that's been supported (my contention), and you can't disprove it other than to point out that he grills his guests whenever they're on his show.

[Parkbandit]

Notice how that's been supported (my contention), and you can't disprove it other than to point out that he grills his guests whenever they're on his show.

Your opinion.. and nothing more.

And you know what the general consensus on your opinion is.. right? Let me give you a hint:


http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/039_20026Fantasy-Island-Posters.jpg

[Paradii]

He's opposed to flags in his children's classroom as well.

As I read this, the first thing that came to mind was that this is the kind of joke that only Park Bandit would believe.


And then I read the second page of the thread and was sadly proven right.

[Warriorbird]

All I get out of this thread is that Parkbandit think TheE is really short and wants TheE to visit his, "Fantasy Island."

http://www.mediadis.com/pictures/big/155854.jpg

[chillmonster]

As I read this, the first thing that came to mind was that this is the kind of joke that only Park Bandit would believe.


And then I read the second page of the thread and was sadly proven right.

He believes what he wants to believe with no regard for evidence or reason. It's blatantly obvious it in his "arguments."

[sst]

He believes what he wants to believe with no regard for evidence or reason. It's blatantly obvious it in his "arguments."

If what you're saying above is true black pot I would like to introduce you to this black kettle.

[Parkbandit]

As I read this, the first thing that came to mind was that this is the kind of joke that only Park Bandit would believe.


And then I read the second page of the thread and was sadly proven right.


When I posted that response.. the first thing that I thought is that Paradii would add nothing to this thread.

And then I read the next page of the thread and was happily proven right.

Holy shit.. this is fun! I bet you now believe I have ESP!

[chillmonster]

If what you're saying above is true black pot I would like to introduce you to this black kettle.

You obviously haven't read my posts.

Just because I think PB is a fool doesn't mean I have the same politics as Nancy Pelosi. I know people hate complexity and readily ignore nuance so they can more easily place others into boxes. The problem is the world isn't black and white and the fact that we have forced ourselves to strictly adhere to one of two political doctrines has hurt us in many ways. Until thinking people can take a step back from their "us v them" mentality and listen to all arguments simply on the merits of those arguments, we'll always be stuck with a government that argues about Terry Shiavos and Moveon.org newspaper ads and never gets around to solving any of the big issues on the horizon.

[Parkbandit]

You obviously haven't read my posts.

Just because I think PB is a fool doesn't mean I have the same politics as Nancy Pelosi. I know people hate complexity and readily ignore nuance so they can more easily place others into boxes. The problem is the world isn't black and white and the fact that we have forced ourselves to strictly adhere to one of two political doctrines has hurt us in many ways. Until thinking people can take a step back from their "us v them" mentality and listen to all arguments simply on the merits of those arguments, we'll always be stuck with a government that argues about Terry Shiavos and Moveon.org newspaper ads and never gets around to solving any of the big issues on the horizon.

LOL... what a crock of bullshit.

Seriously Backlash.. hand out boots when you post nonsense like this.

[chillmonster]

LOL... what a crock of bullshit.

Seriously Backlash.. hand out boots when you post nonsense like this.

If I thought you cared about what was really true, I'd explain what I was talking about, but there's not point in wasting my time. Is there?

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/9391/troll2hg9.jpg

[Parkbandit]

If I thought you cared about what was really true, I'd explain what I was talking about, but there's not point in wasting my time. Is there?


It would be a complete waste of time.. since we have 200+ examples in this login.. countless others in other logins.. to use against you and call you out for being a fucking hypocrite.

It's probably better if you just continue with your normal bullshit.. instead of insisting on taking any high road. You've burned that bridge long ago.

I suppose you could just create another login and hope your history is buried in the past.

:shrug:

[Celephais]

This thread got stupid...

Flags do not make a patriot.
But a patriot will respect the flag.

I can certainly see how someone could see wearing a tiny pin and calling it a day would be disrespectful.

[chillmonster]

It would be a complete waste of time.. since we have 200+ examples in this login.. countless others in other logins.. to use against you and call you out for being a fucking hypocrite.

It's probably better if you just continue with your normal bullshit.. instead of insisting on taking any high road. You've burned that bridge long ago.

I suppose you could just create another login and hope your history is buried in the past.

:shrug:

LOL. You know I'm not your old friend, but you're trying you're best to make it stick. Shows exactly how much respect for truth you have.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I can respect the decision.

Wearing a flag on his lapel does not make him a Patriot and someone wearing a flag on their lapel does not make them more patriotic than someone who's not. My father is sort of like this- he didn't feel the need to wave around American flags, etc to show his patriotism and I tend to agree with Obama.. it's what's in your heart and what's in your actions that spell out how you feel, not a pin. Completely unrelated to the campaigns I do think overall that this is a good message.. that we need to be more concerned with what our elected leaders actually feel and do rather than what they appear to be (and that goes for both sides).

[Sean of the Thread]

This is so stupid. All he wanted was publicity. He didn't state anything ground breaking but he sure did put another foot in the grave on his campaign.

[Tsa`ah]

This is so stupid. All he wanted was publicity. He didn't state anything ground breaking but he sure did put another foot in the grave on his campaign.

You would have a point if the statement wasn't retarded.

It would be one thing if he had pointed out that he wasn't wearing a pin, but he didn't.

He was asked why, he answered ... bunch of dumb shits make it out to be more than what it is.

[CrystalTears]

Why are reporters/interviewers even asking about what is pinned on a politician's clothing? Is this really what the media cares about? FFS.

Who cares if he wears the pin or not. Like I even care if it was a cross or WWJD or the Star of David. What they say and where they stand on issues is what concerns me. I'll give him credit that he's not doing it just because that's what politicians should do, but don't make it come off that people who wear it are probably hypocrites.

Ugh, hate elections.

[DeV]

bunch of dumb shits make it out to be more than what it is.
I bet they weren't wearing their pin either.

And who the fuck would he be making happy by not wearing a pin in the second place. I swear...

[Parkbandit]

I bet they weren't wearing their pin either.

And who the fuck would he be making happy by not wearing a pin in the second place. I swear...


I don't know.. crazy hippie liberals who would rather burn a flag than wear one on a pin?

Freaky!

[DeV]

I don't know.. crazy hippie liberals who would rather burn a flag than wear one on a pin?

Freaky!Yeah, that crazy liberal hippy following Obama currently has sure does make you wonder why they weren't out rejoicing in the streets following the news.

...

[chillmonster]

I don't know.. crazy hippie liberals who would rather burn a flag than wear one on a pin?

Freaky!

Is this guy on drugs?

[Kembal]

No, he's old. You have to make allowances for that sort of thing.

[Parkbandit]

Is this guy on drugs?

You should be the last person to bring that up...