Go House Dreadnaught!

[GSTamral]

You know, when a house is run by 3 of the same person, who also maintains 3 other characters in the 20-30 range, and he got them all there in as short a period of time as he did, that somebody really needs other hobbies.

It's kind of nice watching this so-called house bury itself in more and more controversy, piss more and more people off, and generally let everyone know how a house with a stupid premise, builds the foundations for the stupid minds of tomorrow.

House bullynaught maybe. Or House "I've got all these characters who are just going to follow you around, warn you, because we all aspire to become like Haashek and his wonderful family".

Maimara, I normally would not even think of a word like fuckstain. It just doesnt sound right, but I can't honestly think of a more appropriate adjective for this house. They are worse than Jakarta, and I always thought Jakarta would take the cake for years to come.

[Kurili]

I think it cant help but make it harder on other PRO's coming up, when people know Dreadnought is basically one person with an agenda of tossing his weight around.

Just my opinion.

Acolyte Kurili

[Tsa`ah]

Jakarta in the beginning wasn't all that bad. It's the ending that makes it all look like a bad caffeine trip.

[GSTamral]

Tsa'ah, Jakarta was a pigsty from moment one. They based the house in RR for monopolizing of the RR mana pool for enchanting. That was the ONE AND ONLY factor in determining the location of the house.

There was rozak, owning 2 of the 3 governing posts of the house.

There was the sale of the workshop key to tenser under the table for nearly 2000 in cash, after which they attempted to use GM intervention to take it away. Rozak never returned the cash either, the result of which caused Tenser to leave the game.

There was the bullying and multi-accounting rampage that ultimately did the hosue in. And we havent even touched the TIP of the iceberg on the house.

The sad thing is, Dreadnaught is even worse. I don't even grasp how its possible, but they are

[Lyonis]

Let’s answer Tamral’s gripes in an orderly fashion. First of all the house does not consist of one person controlling everyone. Sabreon controls his main three but everyone else in the house is separate. He comprises a small part of House Dreadnaught. As far as him having other younger characters, I fail to see its relevance. I’m sure there are many here that have old characters and ones that are not so old yet you are not berating them. You claim we’re burying ourselves, yet what evidence do you have to support this. Membership is flourishing and just because you don’t like us doesn’t mean that we’re not well respected in our home. You compare us to a group that has dabbled in fraud and deceit yet have shown nothing that we have done that is even in the same category. You claim that “you have not touched the TIP of the iceberg on the house” when rather you haven’t touched a single thing. My suggestion to you is that you reach down between your legs, find your balls, be a man, and save your gossip for your afternoon tea.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[GSTamral]

Lyonis, I don't need any proof on House Dreadnaught. Your actions are doing more than my words ever could.

Sabreon controls the 3 biggest names in Dreadnaught. I've lost count of how many people Sabreon has brought all of his characters into play against in an attempt to kill them repeatedly because they think poorly of his house. Take myself for example, I spoke poorly of dreadnaught on the boat to Vaalor once with one of his little bodies on board.

I was immediately accosted by all 3 senior members, including yourself Lyonis, as, get this now, this is funny: He located me, He came up to me, interrupted my conversation with someone ELSE, on a completely different topic that had nothing to do with him, and annoyed me for 15 minutes, IGNORING my repeated requests for him to fuck off, to let me know that he cared so little for my opinion, that it didn't even bother him.

It didn't bother him SO MUCH, in fact, that he had to continue a conversation with me, who was repeatedly asking him to fuck off, that he even involved a body (Mistros) who had NOTHING to do with what I was saying about Sabreon, from an IC perspective. Then again, I admit, I have never accused him, you, or any other member of Dreadnaught of being capable of keeping things in perspective.

When you have a house run by one person, each of whom keeps a different mistress, as well as 3 additional smaller characters, each of whom also carries their own mistress, well then, we can most easily summarize your house. In fact, I have to say Maimara said it best.

[StrayRogue]

MAing just to keep the numbers is up is even more sadder than MAing just so you can kill people. I hope the GMs take this into effect when considering RPO status in GS4. The same person should NOT be incontrol of all the officers. The same person should NOT be incontrol of more than one officer.

Go Houseexcusetopvpnaught.

[GSLeloo]

Dreadnaught seems a pretty pathetic group. What do they have that would entice anyone into joining them?

[StrayRogue]

They have three high level characters who can fight for you.

[GSLeloo]

But I don't want anyone to fight for me.

[tenlaughs]

What I would like to see is Sabreon or Kolts or Mistros try and bully someone without the other two standing there. The fact is, they wouldnt be standing for more then two seconds. The three characters can not even hunt by themselves.

And why do they care that you talked bad about them Tamral? Because they have no life. Sean (who controls sabreon, mistros, and kolts) is a very conceeded person.

And I want to know why the GM's have not done a damn thing about this! Isnt it against policy to bring in another character to fight battles for you? Isnt that was Mistros, Sabreon, and Kolts are doing everyday?

Who the hell can stand to be in a house where the three main leaders (all officers being mistros, sabreon, and kolts) are the voters. How can you get a fair Vote or a fair Decision when there are three that are always going to agree?

Someone explain to me because I really dont see the logic in this....

[tenlaughs]

BEWARE!


These are two of Sabreons other slaves


*Vistal
*Krazgon


There is one other...I cant seem to remember who they are... Vistal seems to be the leader of this little group... Usually it is Mistros that is with them because Vistal is on Sabreons account.


Just for Ten laughs :wink:

[GSTamral]

<<
Who the hell can stand to be in a house where the three main leaders (all officers being mistros, sabreon, and kolts) are the voters. How can you get a fair Vote or a fair Decision when there are three that are always going to agree?

Someone explain to me because I really dont see the logic in this....
>>>

Ok, let's go through this one point by point:

There is no logic to it, and they will never be approved as a full service house, because everyone knows that all 3 officers are the same person. That will never work for any official or even two-bit organization. One-bit organizations however, such as Dreadnaught, do not have to follow the typical set of rules.


<<
And why do they care that you talked bad about them Tamral? Because they have no life. Sean (who controls sabreon, mistros, and kolts) is a very conceeded person.
>>


Well, actually, the hypocrisy of his actions speak louder than the actual caring. He located me several times to come up to me and tell me about how he didnt care. And when I told him ok, whatever, go away, he KEPT telling me about how secure he was and how he didn't care. So I told him to fuck off. He took that as additional reasoning to explain to me, in the highest depth, the ontological reasoning as well as the deontological reasoning as to why he didn't care. I began to care that he didn't care, because maybe if he did, instead of just being an annoying [person], he might be an even more annoying [person].


<<
And I want to know why the GM's have not done a damn thing about this! Isnt it against policy to bring in another character to fight battles for you? Isnt that was Mistros, Sabreon, and Kolts are doing everyday?
>>

I am sure people have, but at the same time, when one person has like 6 accounts, its a lot of money they stand to lose every month, especially with the current shrinking player base

[Edited on 1/3/2004 by CrystalTears]

[tenlaughs]

He only had 3 accounts. The other three little ones are on his older ones account. The third one I can not remember because he is on mistros account and usually he needs Mistros to help them hunt.

[Back]

I'm dubious about anything Tamral says. This is in RL. Our characters have met IG and he was cool. As is his woman.

[Lyonis]

Okay let me see if I got this down Tamral. You hate the house I'm in because you ran your mouth then didn't want to get your ass kicked? But since your so insistent on gossip let’s gossip. Let’s talk about the real reason you don’t like us, the real reason you started running your mouth. Let’s talk about the little girl that played the mighty Tamral. Her name is Teeoncy and if anyone is not familiar with her there’s a few hundred posts about her in another thread. I also am pretty sure that she’s Tenlaughs. Tamral saw her pictures and it made his little heart go pitty pat. Tamral is a blind man in love overcome with emotions. It's sad that this adolescent impulses often produce anger. I hope it made you feel better than when you didn’t get her in real life that her pictures might be fake. If that didn’t work, go get your self a tube of Vagisil for your itchy coochie and deal with it.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[StrayRogue]

People who MA so they control a house are StrayRogue. Its abuse. Its the worst, saddest, and StrayRoguest thing ever to use your big brother account to fight for you either.

Dreadnaught = pussy house. Not in the good way either.


[Edited on 8-20-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[tenlaughs]

And that Rogue, Is all that needs to be said. Nothing Lyonis can say can change that fact.

[GSLeloo]

It's pretty funny that Lyonis said Teeoncy is Tenlaughs... I'm not saying it is but I (and I think other people) get the feeling Tenlaughs is a previous poster... so why not Teeoncy?

[tenlaughs]

That is worth Ten Laughs +


I have looked over Teeoncy's little file you have all neatly put together. I would love to say some things about a person like that But I have not met the girl so can not. Am I a recent poster? I am a current Poster my girl. And since you all seem to just love who I am... I can feel free to speak my opinion with ten laughs in mind and not worry about how you take it.

[GSTamral]

<<<
Okay let me see if I got this down Tamral. You hate the house I'm in because you ran your mouth then didn't want to get your ass kicked? But since your so insistent on gossip let’s gossip. Let’s talk about the real reason you don’t like us, the real reason you started running your mouth. Let’s talk about the little girl that played the mighty Tamral. Her name is Teeoncy and if anyone is not familiar with her there’s a few hundred posts about her in another thread. I also am pretty sure that she’s Tenlaughs. Tamral saw her pictures and it made his little heart go pitty pat. Tamral is a blind man in love overcome with emotions. It's sad that this adolescent impulses often produce anger. I hope it made you feel better than when you didn’t get her in real life that her pictures might be fake. If that didn’t work, go get your self a tube of Vagisil for your itchy coochie and deal with it.
>>>

Oh, so now we're down to this?

I spoke ill of Sabreon. This then resulted in him bringing all of his characters into threat mode, to come up to me and let me know he didn't care. If he didn't care he would not have said anything. I know this type of logic is WAY WAY above your head, and I'm sorry that you cannot comprehend this, but it's life.

If sabreon has the balls to duel me one on one for what I said, I would gladly kick his ass ten ways apart. But thats not how gangs think. As for Teeoncy, I was friends with her, I was never with her, and any idiot would realize I havent been in the same town as her for several months now. But then I digress, because I guess you have no grasp of the obvious either.

So long as your house does nothing but gang up on people and have 3 big bodies go around imploding whoever you don't like, you can talk large. But in truth, it is the entire House Dreadnaught that needs Vagisil. In fact, Vagisil isn't strong enough. You need something so strong it will cover up the fact that none of your are capable of fighting your own fights.

In fact, how about this, since you are issuing the challenges here. Let captain [person] choose any of his 3 major characters. I will duel them to the death. After the first one dies, I will take on the next one of his choosing, and I won't even bother to heal or anything between fights. After I kill the second one, I'll take on the third. Does he even have the balls to do that? Didn't think so. Do you? Of course not. You'd just hide behind him like you always do.

[Edited on 1/3/2004 by CrystalTears]

[Betheny]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Maimara, I normally would not even think of a word like fuckstain. It just doesnt sound right, but I can't honestly think of a more appropriate adjective for this house. They are worse than Jakarta, and I always thought Jakarta would take the cake for years to come.

See, my hatred for them isn't just because I'm a rabid bitch. There's valid reasoning behind it. I think these folks are far worse than anyone else that is complained about on these boards. Far, far, far worse.

[GSTamral]

<<
See, my hatred for them isn't just because I'm a rabid bitch. There's valid reasoning behind it. I think these folks are far worse than anyone else that is complained about on these boards. Far, far, far worse.
>>>


You are member number 124 in the "House Dreadnaught is a fuckstain" club! Your yearly membership includes, at no cost to you, at least 4 deaths by implode from a group that has extreme difficulty controlling their own bladders, a weekly hate e-mail package from sabreon, postage included, and as a bonus now, for this week only, included is the new title by Lyonis "5 simple steps to becoming someone's bitch" ! Absolutely free of charge! Join now! all major credit cards accepted

[Betheny]

By the way, Lyonis, every time you open your mouth and post in defense of this house you lose brownie points in my eyes.

In fact, you're becoming no better than those stupid fucks.

I'm serious here, some of my deep-seated, REAL hatred is reserved for these dumb asses.

I'm sorry, but here it is: 1. There is no excuse for bringing your MA buddies to help you (or your friends) out, stupid house or no. 2. There is no excuse to, 6 months AFTER the fact, continue to harass people, especially when they have you on WARN INTERACT because you just won't knock it the fuck off (Oh yes. If he gives me any more shit, I just might make some homemade nuclear warfare or something.)

I can't even go into details about this right now, these fuckers are not something I want to ever wake up to. Ever.

[Lyonis]

I have just spoken to Tamral and him and Sabreon will be dueling one on one this weekend in Illistim. I have full confidence that Tamral will not make good on his claims.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Lyonis
I have just spoken to Tamral and him and Sabreon will be dueling one on one this weekend in Illistim. I have full confidence that Tamral will not make good on his claims.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

Are you going to elicit an apology for me now? YOU KNOW what they did to me was wrong. But you're still tossing his salad.

Pathetic.

[tenlaughs]

Just for ten laughs...


Arvial:
Airveil :
Anticor
Arrigorn:
Beateficia
Celember
Decimate
Domita:
Drizzient:
Drusiander
Elsabet
Felgin
Gallof
Harigelia
Kaitara:
Kiestra
Kolts
Krazgon
Lyonis:
Marionetta
Maxne
Mistros
Olorhen
Petravinia
Plecious
Psillox
Pustal
Rakisak:
Rohb
Sabreo
Sabreon
Salvashion
Shartoose
Shattele
Skyeraine
Spellwraith
Snowdrop
Stelth
Toonce
Thorsin
Torref
Trancenx:
Troiandian
Valgo
Vaaz:


From My Source... I have got this list of House members. I am not sure how up to date it is. But here are some of the people that are in it. I know for a FACT that Vaaz is also the first two people on the list (being Arvial: and Airveil :) If you look at any other names that are similiar you can only assume that they are also the same person. I wonder...who cares how many characters are in the house... how many actual players are in the house?

[Kurili]

Lyonis, my Grandmother used to tell me, "You are judged by the company you keep."

I'd suggest you stand back and take a look at the company you're keeping, instead of verbally assaulting anyone who says anything you dont like about one person running an entire PRO.

But, that's just me.

Acolyte Kurili

[tenlaughs]

Oh and add on to my recent post... lets look at this new piece of information I recieved.

Commander: Sabreon
Treasurer: Kolts
Justices: Sabreo and Mistros.
Officers: Valgo, Gallof, Plecious, Maxne
Captain Kaitara and Lyonis

Sabreo is Sabreon's as well. I have heard Sabreo has another controller but Sabreon does control him as well. Valgo also is controlled by sabreon time to time as a wizard.. and Maxne is an empath controlled mostly be sabreon. And Kaitara is Mistros girl friend.

Wow all in all... the...lets count... 10 characters are controlled by what...three players?

[Betheny]

Hear hear, Kurili.

I stuck up for Lyonis in another thread, and I"m regretting it now, because here, his maturity and stupidity is really starting to glare under the fluorescent lighting.

[GSTamral]

Here are the terms of our duel, for which he has chosen Sabreon to represent him:

1) No spells other than the ones that individual character can cast.

2) No usage of items that provide spells (this includes deathstone earrings, self mana items, self chargers, and imbeds)

3) Must be dispelled before the duel begins

4) Duel is to be one on one, until the death.


Here are some pre-duel odds for everyone:

Odds Sabreon abides by the rules: 4-1 against.

Odds Sabreon wins a fair duel: 12-1 (this is generous)

[Betheny]

Be wary the guild skills, he uses them all th e time.

[AnticorRifling]

I see my name on the list so it can't be all bad.

I joined the house because everytime I'm with any group from the house we have alot of fun. I don't see the bullying whenever I'm around of couse I'm not around alot.

I have yet to find any orginization that is perfect, every one of them is made up of people, people have different oppinions so I guess that means people will always find faults.

[GSTamral]

Maimara, I am a master of those guild skills as well. In fact, I am far ahead of him within the guild. I'd be most surprised to get caught with a guild tactic, considering my defenses against them will be higher than his.

[GSTamral]

Sheesh anticor, first you're related to Haashek and now this??? You've either got some real bad luck, or you just get caught in the wrong place at the wrong time a whole lot

[Betheny]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Sheesh anticor, first you're related to Haashek and now this??? You've either got some real bad luck, or you just get caught in the wrong place at the wrong time a whole lot

Nah, Anticor is just one of those guys who doesn't say no to anything, he goes along with stuff. I remember when I first started playing, I did a lot of stupid shit, but I outgrew it. I rerolled a bunch of my characters to escape the bullshit. Anticor just shrugs and laughs at the bullshit.

[tenlaughs]

A lot of people that just go along with sabreon...not alot of leaders are there...

[Edaarin]

Anticor, you disappoint me more and more every day.

I've never heard of 80% of the people on that list.

I'm not starting my own PRO entitled the Ancient Order of the Crusading Destroyers of the Citadel. To get in, you must have at least one matching outfit of golvern/veil iron/ancient/rune etched/evil/darkness themed alters. Also, no halflings.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

You can't Edaarin, you are part of the WTM!

[Lyonis]

The list was interesting because now I’m certain that tenlaughs is Teeoncy.

Now the only person that I’ve seen post with a legitimate gripe against us is Maimara. That situation is something that I regret happening and I will apologize for.

As for why I defend Sabreon and the house, I have posted this before but they have always been good to me. They were the first real friends Lyonis met in the lands and he will always remember that. Just like I’ll defend all my friends Maimara, including yourself. If I listened to all the garbage spoken about you at face value I wouldn’t like you very much I can assure you that.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Betheny]

If you think I"m the only person that that fucktard has done this to, you're dead wrong. Maybe not everyone complaining has a valid beef, but you know what? I'd say 85% of them do, and the other 15% merely witnessed the wrongdoing that is House Dreadnought.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I've never head anything bad about Miamara. And her smile is dazzling!

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Lyonis
The list was interesting because now I’m certain that tenlaughs is Teeoncy.


I think your wrong. But then again I didn't pick up that Quitter was X for like a week and a half. But still. Tenlaughs capitalizes stuff, which I don't think Tee ever did. So there.

Lyonis, if I were you, I'd take a step back and remember "where there's smoke, there's fire." This many people can be wrong, but there is still something to their accusations.

[Lyonis]

Yes I am sorry to you too Tenlaughs/Teeoncy. This thread has taken away some of your spotlight. And wow you capitalize and Teeoncy doesn't? Oh my mistake then, there's no possible way you could be her then!!! ::roll eyes::

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Betheny]

Even if it is Teeoncy, leave her the fuck alone. This isn't about her.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Maimara
Even if it is Teeoncy, leave her the fuck alone. This isn't about her.

It sure is. Just like this person started the other thread about Syberus that starred the house. Her involvement and whether or not she's Teeoncy is very relevant.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Betheny]

No, this thread is about what a bunch of cock eaters DReadnaught is. Stay on topic, cock eater.

[GSTamral]

Maimara, you are seriously like a living dictionary of how to swear creatively. You should publish the dictionary of modern curses.

Fuckstain - (Fuk - sta'n) - n, adj (colloquial)the residual impact stain of ejaculate. (adj) someone who goes above and beyond the level of basic fucktard.
ex. Monica Lewinsky's blue dress has a big fuckstain on it.

[Skirmisher]

Lyonis, as a totally uninvolved third party, perhaps a strategic withdrawal and reassesment is in order for you as your group is coming out looking not very well at the moment.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Maimara, you are seriously like a living dictionary of how to swear creatively. You should publish the dictionary of modern curses.

Fuckstain - (Fuk - sta'n) - n, adj (colloquial)the residual impact stain of ejaculate. (adj) someone who goes above and beyond the level of basic fucktard.
ex. Monica Lewinsky's blue dress has a big fuckstain on it.

I should have been a sailor. Then ALL the boys would want my nuts.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Lyonis, as a totally uninvolved third party, perhaps a strategic withdrawal and reassesment is in order for you as your group is coming out looking not very well at the moment.

And take your little dog with you!

Wait, Lyonis is the little dog.

Uhm... yeah.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Lyonis, as a totally uninvolved third party, perhaps a strategic withdrawal and reassesment is in order for you as your group is coming out looking not very well at the moment.

Naw, I'll take my licks with my group. Lyonis and me the player have this issue with loyalty.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Maimara

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Lyonis, as a totally uninvolved third party, perhaps a strategic withdrawal and reassesment is in order for you as your group is coming out looking not very well at the moment.

And take your little dog with you!

Wait, Lyonis is the little dog.

Uhm... yeah.

Heh, that made me chuckle. But I thought we were friends, that sounded rather harsh.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[tenlaughs]

Wouldn’t I have to be a girl to be Teeoncy? Or am I a girl? That is something for everyone to ponder a bit.

But I do think that I see what you are trying to do Lyonis. Perhaps you believe that if you turn this around to start talking about Teeoncy, like everyone so loves to do, then the heat will be off you? My dear boy, instead you are being annoying by going off topic.


Fuckstain, I love it.

[Lyonis]

Wait it must not be Teeoncy. She hasn't threatened to kill herself yet or talk about her traumatic experiences as a spoiled rich girl.

And as far as the heat is concerned I've brought it all on myself and if I didn't enjoy it I wouldn't participate in it. Why did I bring up Teeoncy? Well if you read the post where I first mentioned her it adds insight as to why Tamral dislikes us so much. I know it was almost two pages ago Teeoncy, but try and keep up with it.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[tenlaughs]

Your rambling is worth ten laughs if that. But let me ask you this, does everyone hate your house as well because of this girl Teeoncy? Wow, Teeoncy must control a lot of people.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by tenlaughs
Your rambling is worth ten laughs if that. But let me ask you this, does everyone hate your house as well because of this girl Teeoncy? Wow, Teeoncy must control a lot of people.

No not people Teeoncy, men should not be considered people when we're thinking with our dicks.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Adhara]

Everything I've seen about the dreadnaught trio is negative. Everything I've heard about the dreadnaught trio is negative. Everything my friends have experienced with one of the dreadnaught trio (or Lyonis in some cases) is extremely negative.

The opinion of a neutral bystander: everything about the grotesque dreadnaught trio & co. screams CvC (maybe even PvP in some cases). Hell maybe they can ask Mitra for a new toggle in the profile verb just for House Dreadnaught: LOOKING FOR A FIGHT.

My advice to those that were up to now oblivious to this farce of a house: Beware and stay away.

[tenlaughs]

Sabreon must put out then!

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by tenlaughs
Sabreon must put out then!

Care to respond to my damn thread about seeking an advice of you?

[tenlaughs]

Exscuse me?

[Xcalibur]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=2964

urging!

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Lyonis
Heh, that made me chuckle. But I thought we were friends, that sounded rather harsh.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

It has been said, "If it looks like a platypus, talks like a platypus, smells like a platypus, and makes the same sound as a platypus does when you step on it -- it's probably a platypus."

So here's the deal, I always t hought you were different than those that had masturbated until t heir brain cells squirted out, but I was apparently wrong.

You talk, look, and squeal like a Sabreon/Sabreo/Mistros/Kolts...

What do you want me to think?

[StrayRogue]

Lyonis, do you condone your bitch house mates using their other accounts to control the officier positions as well as fight each others battles? Simple question. My opinion of you will be determined by your answer.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Lyonis, do you condone your bitch house mates using their other accounts to control the officier positions as well as fight each others battles? Simple question. My opinion of you will be determined by your answer.

I thank you Strayrogue for asking a question and waiting for an answer to make an objective opinion. On the issue of the house hierarchy being controlled by only a few I have this to say on it. The house is not a democracy but more along the lines of a military organization. Sabreon has the final say in all house issues so whether or not he controls one or three of the 10 officer positions is irrelevant.

As far as the house fighting other people’s fights for them this is my answer. Gemstone being my first roleplay experience, Lyonis is pretty much an extension of my personality and holds the same values that I hold. The way I was brought up in my neighborhood if your friend starts a fight your friend finishes it. On the other hand, if someone starts a fight with your friend he’s going to be stomped by the whole crew. Fair you ask? Certainly not, but it’s how I grew up and it was very effective. The house is the same way. You can go back to other posts, some by Maimara, others by Irksum’s player, and you can ask around, Lyonis has gotten his ass kicked scores of times but has gotten the house involved in two. The ones I didn’t ask for help were the ones that I started and I had to deal with. I enjoy conflict, and I play Lyonis accordingly. The first time I got the house involved in one of my conflicts was when Dresdena had me stunned for the entire ferry ride from Vaalor to Illistim because she thought that I also played a character known as Zee who had stolen from one of her other characters. The second time was when Gallahan webbed all of picker’s court in Vaalor because he could and for no other reason. Several house members were webbed by him and as the ranking person in the house I felt it was my responsibility to try and defend them. The house was brought in and the bully was stomped. All of these matters were handled in game. I refuse to use the warn verb so this seems to me my only source of retribution. On the MANY other times Lyonis has gotten his ass handed to him, he has never used the warn verb nor asked for help from the house. I dish out my licks but I also take them with class.

As far as ganging up on people, this is classic military doctrine. Being a former soldier, I was never taught to fight fair. I was taught to win. We had a saying, “If your not cheating, your not trying hard enough.”. We were taught to destroy our enemies in the most effective way possible so everyone on our side got to go home. If we had to triple team our enemy, call in airstrikes, or plain out be some sneaky bastards, that’s what we did. That is what our house does, we win, or we die trying as in our first encounter with Syberus. We do not look for fights, but we certainly do not shy away from them. If we win we rejoice, if we lose we suck it up and train harder to try and fight another day. But above all we stick together. I know Lyonis will always have friends as long as he is a Dreadnaught.

I hope that answers your questions. Regardless of your opinion now, I do again thank you for trying to be objective about it and you will have my respect for it.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Kurili]

Oh My God.

Not only is Dreadnought now not a House sort of thing, but an 'Army' controlled by one person, but it's somehow alright for this 'Army' to use percieved military tactics on the 'civilian' population. Has any of your 'Army' read policy? Ever?

I sure hope my bigmouthed little civilians dont ever invoke the ire of your little group. I am not one to report, but I assure you, if my girls ever have trouble with that player and his group of bullies, I will be typing REPORT and ASSIST so fast you'll think it was macro'd.

I am just stunned, actually. That someone actually thinks it's alright for one person to bring in multi chars of his own to fight his battles. And those of his PRO as well?

Acolyte Kurili

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Kurili
Oh My God.

Not only is Dreadnought now not a House sort of thing, but an 'Army' controlled by one person, but it's somehow alright for this 'Army' to use percieved military tactics on the 'civilian' population. Has any of your 'Army' read policy? Ever?

I sure hope my bigmouthed little civilians dont ever invoke the ire of your little group. I am not one to report, but I assure you, if my girls ever have trouble with that player and his group of bullies, I will be typing REPORT and ASSIST so fast you'll think it was macro'd.

I am just stunned, actually. That someone actually thinks it's alright for one person to bring in multi chars of his own to fight his battles. And those of his PRO as well?

Acolyte Kurili

Now do you mean you'll report us if you start a fight and don't like the results? Or if we picked on you? Just a quick question for clarity.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[StrayRogue]

I think its fucking pathetic to use your other accounts to fight for you. Fucking pathetic.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I think its fucking pathetic to use your other accounts to fight for you. Fucking pathetic.

That's your opinion. But they aren't my accounts. I play Lyonis and only Lyonis. I'm sorry that you disagree with the house but I do thank you for your time to at least look at it from my side.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Syberus]

Since they like gang fights, I say we round up every person they've ever fucked with and all our friends and go pay them a visit.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Hell I'll go along just because of Lyonis's posts. The whole "fight me and you fight my house" bullshit makes me itch to fight his house.

[Hips]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Hell I'll go along just because of Lyonis's posts. The whole "fight me and you fight my house" bullshit makes me itch to fight his house.

HOTHEAD!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Passionate, not hothead.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Hell I'll go along just because of Lyonis's posts. The whole "fight me and you fight my house" bullshit makes me itch to fight his house.

Obviously I lost you in those long groupings of words known as sentences. Then I got even more tricky with it when I grouped the sentences into paragraphs. I'll make this simple for you. If someone in the house starts a fight they deal with it. If someone else starts a fight with them we all deal with it.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Kurili]

Lyonis, unless you consider verbal sparring with a hefty dose of humor to be treatening, or starting trouble. my girls do not start trouble. But there have been times trouble has found them for whatever reason. But that was to clarify.

Acolyte Kurili

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Syberus
Since they like gang fights, I say we round up every person they've ever fucked with and all our friends and go pay them a visit.

Now thats funny coming from the paid assasin with a heart that beats kool-aid. I hope you win Syberus cuz I really would hate to see you warn us again.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I understood just fine. You just reiterated it for yourself, dumbfuck.

Is it my fault you are so fucking stupid you have to write your sentences twice to understand yourself? I think not.

Edit to add:

What you are saying is, I'll start a fight with anyone I can beat, but if someone starts a fight with me they must face my whole family.

We call that, Iamapussy, where I'm from. That or Igotnostones. I don't know you from Jesus and your posts here make me realize what children there are playing this game. Go back to playing doom in god mode, you aren't wanted here.

[Edited on 12-1-2003 by Suppa Hobbit Mage]

[Syberus]

What is this us shit? Were you hiding in the corner jacking off while you watched your master or whatever the hell you call him attack me without provocation? You pretend like you do something other than run your mouth and suck dick for table scraps.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
I understood just fine. You just reiterated it for me, dumbfuck.

Is it my fault you are so fucking stupid you have to write your sentences twice to understand yourself? I think not.

Well I'm glad I did you seem to understand it much better. Glad I could help!

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Look me up when death points are implimented Lyonis :)

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Kurili
Lyonis, unless you consider verbal sparring with a hefty dose of humor to be treatening, or starting trouble. my girls do not start trouble. But there have been times trouble has found them for whatever reason. But that was to clarify.

Acolyte Kurili

Oh I love verbal sparring, which is why I love these boards so much. A good argument has never caused me much trouble so I doubt that you would ever have any problems with us. We're into revenge and retribution not starting fights. Either way this is a blast!

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Look me up when death points are implimented Lyonis :)

Sounds like a plan. I love a good fight. And dont worry you can kill me a hundred times and I'll never warn you or any of my other adversaries. But for reference, your character is.....?

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Lyonis, you seem like a decent enough guy. I have heard alot of bad things about the house your in. Perhaps you should seek to take power and attempt to restore some faith in HD.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Tayvin

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Dighn Darkbeam
Lyonis, you seem like a decent enough guy. I have heard alot of bad things about the house your in. Perhaps you should seek to take power and attempt to restore some faith in HD.

Like any group we're not perfect. I have never witnessed any bullying of someone that didn't have it coming to them. Half the people here fall into that category. Regardless, I"m having fun and I love being a Dreadnaught.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Tayvin

Okay good. I so hate being killed by people and having no clue who they are or why they did it. I live in the Elven Nations and shuffle back and forth from Vaalor to Illistim quite often. That should make it easier for you to find me. Look forward it it's gonna be a blast!!!

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Like any group we're not perfect. I have never witnessed any bullying of someone that didn't have it coming to them. Half the people here fall into that category. Regardless, I"m having fun and I love being a Dreadnaught. >>

Still it is a bit odd that one player controls three positions of power. I understand everyone has the right to roleplay how they see fit. Still, A statistic like that would make me, and many others, a bit weary of joining or even interacting. If you have an argument with one character, you have automatically upset 3+ characters.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Dighn Darkbeam
Like any group we're not perfect. I have never witnessed any bullying of someone that didn't have it coming to them. Half the people here fall into that category. Regardless, I"m having fun and I love being a Dreadnaught. >>

Still it is a bit odd that one player controls three positions of power. I understand everyone has the right to roleplay how they see fit. Still, A statistic like that would make me, and many others, a bit weary of joining or even interacting. If you have an argument with one character, you have automatically upset 3+ characters.

Now I can definitly see the problems in that. The only way I can answer is that the House is not run in a democratic fashion. Sabreon is the commander and his say is final. So whether he runs just the one position or that and two lower level ones is pretty irrelevant.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Kurili]

I find that whole situation very disturbing as well, Dighn.

No need to work with others in your PRO, or to get along with anyone, if you ARE the PRO, basically.


Acolyte Kurili

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Maimara
It has been said, "If it looks like a platypus, talks like a platypus, smells like a platypus, and makes the same sound as a platypus does when you step on it -- it's probably a platypus."


Uh, by whom?

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Maimara
It has been said, "If it looks like a platypus, talks like a platypus, smells like a platypus, and makes the same sound as a platypus does when you step on it -- it's probably a platypus."


Uh, by whom?

Likely someone trying to prove to someone that something was a platypus.

[GSTamral]

ok, so here's what we know about House Dreadnaught.

1) It is a militaristic house, run by someone who never was a soldier, and captained by someone who falsely claims to have been one.

How about this Lyonis, I have a couple friends high up in Booz-Allen-Hamilton, the company that does the military personell databasing, along with all of the exercise simulation modeling along with the defense modelling of most of the modern aviation craft, up to and including the f-24 frisbee. They have access to the entire database of units available, reservists, and past training documentation for the last 25 years. I am sincerely calling bullshit on you ever having been a soldier, because simply said, you lack discipline and the basic judgement that any soldier learns in basic.
How about a name, division, commanding officer? or were you one of those "secret" ops that nobody can know about? ::roll eyes::. Several people I know at work were once enlisted, mostly Army, and many others were ROTC in order to pay for school, and absolutely none of them have the same piss poor attitude that you do. Are you perpetually pissed off that you never could even make PFC?

2) House Dreadnaught makes it basis on "If you aren't cheating, you arent trying hard enough". Wonderful motto. And a motto absolutely no military troupe will carry.

3) House Dreadnaught supports the gang mentality, because thats life. News to fucktard (thanks for the new vocabulary, Maimara), gemstone isnt life.

4) House Dreadnaught admits to mass provocation and acts of aggression upon anyone who has a problem with an individual member led by someone who has no job, 3+ accounts, and many high level characters claiming to be friends with the gods (I'm going to remember to ask about him to every GM I meet next con)


You know, this was the very reason I said the house was a pisspot to begin with.

[Kurili]

I guess now would be a bad time to say I was in the Army, huh?

Acolyte Kurili

[GSTamral]

Kurlii,

It's the whole "if you arent cheating, you arent trying hard enough" that got my attention right away. I have more than 12 supervisors under me who are former Army/Navy. I hear the stories ALL the time. Several of my friends in college were ROTC, because Duke costs nearly 35 a year to attend, and most everyone was on financial aid. Now I'm not claiming to be army, nor was I ROTC, but that basic attitude and motto is not something I would ever hear out of ANY of them.

[Caiylania]

I can vouch for that, my husband, mother, grandfather, great grandfather were all Military, enlisted and officers. That kind of attitude would never have gotten far with any of them.

Should I ask my LT General cousin what he would do if his soldiers had that attitude?

[Caramia]

So Sabreon is the headcheese of this little group? That explains a lot!

Lyonis, you say you've never witnessed anyone being attacked by your house for no apparent reason and that they deserved it? A good commander will investigate and find out if the complaints are true, and keep an eye on his troops, not dismiss the claims or pretend to be ignorant to them. Try being impartial for a bit, remove yourself from them, and see what you can learn.

[GSTamral]

<<<
As far as ganging up on people, this is classic military doctrine. Being a former soldier, I was never taught to fight fair. I was taught to win. We had a saying, “If your not cheating, your not trying hard enough.”. We were taught to destroy our enemies in the most effective way possible so everyone on our side got to go home. If we had to triple team our enemy, call in airstrikes, or plain out be some sneaky bastards, that’s what we did. That is what our house does, we win, or we die trying as in our first encounter with Syberus. We do not look for fights, but we certainly do not shy away from them. If we win we rejoice, if we lose we suck it up and train harder to try and fight another day. But above all we stick together. I know Lyonis will always have friends as long as he is a Dreadnaught.
>>>

Well, let's analyze the bullshit.
1)

"If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying hard enough"

No military organization would ever allow, at ANY level, soliders to adopt this motto.

2)

"If we had to triple team our enemy, call in airstrikes, or plain out be some sneaky bastards, that’s what we did."

ok first off. triple teaming yes, but thats horrendous wording for simply outnumbering your enemy at a specific location.

Call in airstrikes - no common soldier has the ability to make this decision. In fact, no NCO under the level of seargent may even make this request. Their decision to accept or request is based entirely on the tactical nature of the situation, and whether or not the threat is large enough to warrant air ordinance.

be sneaky bastards - again, not something any soldier can do. Soldiers follow orders. Tactics are determined by the situation, and must be approved. No tactic can fall outside of the governing military laws. You speak as though this is carte blanche to do whatever. NO.

3)

"That is what our house does, we win, or we die trying as in our first encounter with Syberus."

This is not military anything. No military action can or will be taken until a proper assessment of the enemy is made. No soldier or soldiers will ever be thrown into a suicide mission for the purpose of ascertaining the strength of the enemy. I can't even begin to fathom where the fuck you got this. Die trying the first time?


4)

<<
We do not look for fights, but we certainly do not shy away from them.
>>

Yet again, I must call bullshit.

5)

<<
I know Lyonis will always have friends as long as he is a Dreadnaught. >>

And you should consider enemies as well. I see more people who hate your house than enjoy its membership. More importantly, most members of the house don't even get involved in the nonsensical wars you create.

[Caramia]

And I want to know why the GM's have not done a damn thing about this! Isnt it against policy to bring in another character to fight battles for you? Isnt that was Mistros, Sabreon, and Kolts are doing everyday?

As far as I know, it certainly is against policy! And last time I checked, simply making a comment about some unofficial group that doesn't even have a real building and is nothing more than a boy's/fight club, doesn't qualify as consent to conflict.

If insults were consent, people would be getting into fights over a lot of petty stuff. Wait... that does happen! Silly me.

Lyonis, if my characters ever talk smack about your house, then you better make damn sure that ONLY the member of your house that is present and witness to those comments is the only one that deals with it. Otherwise, you're operating on assumptions, my friend... and yes, logs can be adulterated too.

They better know how to roleplay and have the ability to engage me in some stunning dialog first.

And then they better make damn sure I consent to take it to the next level, or I will do what apparently is not being done by other people who are attacked, I'll report every member of Dreadnought that attacks me.

If people reported Sabreon/Kolts/Mistros etc., then the GMs would deal with them.

[Betheny]

Dreadnaught = hatemongers.

[Caramia]

Originally posted by Maimara
Dreadnaught = hatemongers.

Exactly.

By the way, the GM in charge of official houses is Soraya, and I think the GM in charge of PROs is either Mitra or Mignon.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Caramia
If people reported Sabreon/Kolts/Mistros etc., then the GMs would deal with them.

Not true.

They simply go on as they always do and the GM's, as far as I know, haven't done a damn thing about it. Even when those asswhores were harassing me daily.

[Lyonis]

It's funny how you doubt me and you know nothing about me. If you want to know what unit I was in its A co. 1-22 IN 4th ID U.S Army. I left as a rifle squad team leader. To you claiming knowledge because you know or are relatives of some data processing desk pukes means nothing to me.

You don't like my house that's fine. You want to kill my characters becuse of my responses on the boards, well that's fine as well. You can hate me, ridicule me, but you'll only add to my fun. What is amusing is that in all reality you can do nothing to change any of it.

I hold true to my beliefs and my friendships. If that means that I don't have all the "cool" kids liking me I dont think I'll be losing any sleep over it. I am true to my word, loyal, and a friend above all to those who have earned my respect.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Lyonis
You want to kill my characters becuse of my responses on the boards, well that's fine as well.Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

Actually it's not okay, that's the point. That's some shit DREADNAUGHT would do right there.

[Jolena]

Just a quick question Lyonis.. because I have sat through 5 pages of this thread and would like to know now.. do you honestly condone the fact that one person controlling three souls uses them to not only fight his personal battles but also as the voting and decision making officers in your house?

[Overlord]

For as much as folk tend to dislike you, you have values that I too uphold and believe in.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Overlord
For as much as folk tend to dislike you, you have values that I too uphold and believe in.

Thank you, and I hope you don't receive too much flak for that remark.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Jolena
Just a quick question Lyonis.. because I have sat through 5 pages of this thread and would like to know now.. do you honestly condone the fact that one person controlling three souls uses them to not only fight his personal battles but also as the voting and decision making officers in your house?

I see nothing wrong in the fact that none are forced into the house and there is no pressure to stay if you want to leave. Those that are in the house are either happy to be there or they are free to leave and go on their seperate ways. We haven't made anyone drink the special kool-aid yet.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Betheny]

But the rest of us playing GS are forced to deal with the idiocy this house sets forth, because you guys run around like some kind of militia and you force the rest of us to 'accept' you. Except some of us don't.

[Jolena]

Okay but you still didn't address the issue of having as a leader someone who will bring all three of his characters to fight one characters battle. That to me is the epitome of cowardly and unethical. Do you condone this?

[Overlord]

Just curious as to an example of the "Forcing to accept"

[Betheny]

Like when one of the idiot trio say.. steals from you or casts at you, and you go Hey wtf punk /beat ass, and then all 3 of them show up and go

WE ARE HOUSE DREADNAUGHT, YOU SHAN'T FUCK WITH US FOR YOU SHALL BE DEADIFIED.

And they kill you or whatever and call it justified.

[Overlord]

Aha well sweet revenge comes swiftly when faced with such a matter. They bring reinforcments, you bring reinforcements.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Jolena
Okay but you still didn't address the issue of having as a leader someone who will bring all three of his characters to fight one characters battle. That to me is the epitome of cowardly and unethical. Do you condone this?

cowardly
Cow"ard*ly, a. 1. Wanting courage; basely or weakly timid or fearful; pusillanimous; spiritless.

The cowardly rascals that ran from the battle. --Shak.

2. Proceeding from fear of danger or other consequences; befitting a coward; dastardly; base; as, cowardly malignity. --Macaulay.

The cowardly rashness of those who dare not look danger in the face. --Burke.

Syn: Timid; fearful; timorous; dastardly; pusillanimous; recreant; craven; faint-hearted; chicken-hearted; white-livered.


unethical
adj 1: not conforming to approved standards of social or professional behavior; "unethical business practices" [ant: ethical] 2: not adhering to ethical or moral principles; "base and unpatriotic motives"; "a base, degrading way of life"; "cheating is dishonorable"; "they considered colonialism immoral"; "unethical practices in handling public funds" [syn: base, dishonorable, dishonourable, immoral]

In what ways are we cowardly? Do we lack the will to fight? We have never shown this before. Though it has come into question and so Sabreon will be dueling Tamral in all 0x gear with no outside spells. Warrior against warrior.

How are we unethical? Do we not conform to the rules laid down by Simu? Of course we do, or we would cease to exist. Sabreon controlling three characters at once, while an extremely effective technique, is not against any policy. It is a game we play, and this game has rules. We play by those rules in what we deem is the best strategy. I am sorry this doesn’t coexist with your views of how Gemstone should be. I sincerely hope that I never disrupt any of your game play while I enjoy my money spent.


Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Maimara
Like when one of the idiot trio say.. steals from you or casts at you, and you go Hey wtf punk /beat ass, and then all 3 of them show up and go

WE ARE HOUSE DREADNAUGHT, YOU SHAN'T FUCK WITH US FOR YOU SHALL BE DEADIFIED.

And they kill you or whatever and call it justified.

We stole from you when? I remember you in my pockets in Solhaven, then I was left stunned for a long period of time for merely insinuating that Maimara dances for silvers. Heh, I thought it was a riot. No Dreadnaught help, no warning. Just a lot of fun for me and I hope for you.

Oh but let Maimara rub you the wrong the way and you beat her ass. Oh my, your gonna be in a world of hurt then. Maimara you just loves that warn verb when someone comes along and messes up your view of how things should go.

Grow some thicker skin Beth and learn to take the medicine you give out. Your character is supposed to represent the Lord of Pain and you cry from a papercut.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Betheny]

You call what they did to me a paper cut? I'm not the only example of this shit, and the example I used (stealing) is a lot less involved than my example. But if you want, i can certainly go into THAT here.

[Betheny]

If my warning them was wrong, then the textbook example that GMs give you when they tell you to warn someone is wrong, too. Not that they abide by it, anyway, fuckstick. Just like you to pull out personal insults rather than deal with the issue at hand.

[Skirmisher]

Hmmm I just realized.

Lyonis seams to have been infected with a similar "I'm loyal to my friends so there" kinda virus as Klaive was.

[Betheny]

yeah, I guess I am wrong, I shouldn't stick up for my friends when someone 3x their train is trying to kill them for roleplaying an evil character -- and then, when i make the mistake of helping my friend out IN CHARACTER, I should just not bitch when three totally uninvolved parties walk up to me in a hunting area and kill me.

Thanks for the lesson, Lyonis, and thanks for contradicting yourself.

[Jolena]

Okay looking at the definitions you pulled on cowardly I would say that Sabreon does indeed fit into that category for one reason. He has FEAR of fighting his own battles ALONE without pulling in two other characters HE controls to take care of it for him. THAT is cowardly. And yes, MAing to fight your fights for you is unethical. Yes you pay money for your account but guess what..so do the rest of us. And personally.. I don't have a problem nor do I give a flying fuck if you want to be in a organization that is run by one person and you don't get votes. Go ahead, do what you like. However, what I do care about is when someone gets into a fight and brings in two other characters that THEY control to take care of it. THAT is BULLSHIT. Period.

End rant. Thx.

[Adhara]

Originally posted by Lyonis
Sabreon controlling three characters at once, while an extremely effective technique, is not against any policy.

Correct, it is not. But when 2 of them jump into a fight that was between the third and someone else, it becomes against policy. I'm sure House Dreadnaught is already aware of this but for its sake as much as for the sake of other people's enjoyment of the game (and you do care about that, right?), I hope it follows it.

And if it doesn't, I do hope anyone witness to such event will promptly report it.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Maimara
If my warning them was wrong, then the textbook example that GMs give you when they tell you to warn someone is wrong, too. Not that they abide by it, anyway, fuckstick. Just like you to pull out personal insults rather than deal with the issue at hand.

Fuckstick? Oh that must not be a personal insult, my mistake.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Jolena
Okay looking at the definitions you pulled on cowardly I would say that Sabreon does indeed fit into that category for one reason. He has FEAR of fighting his own battles ALONE without pulling in two other characters HE controls to take care of it for him. THAT is cowardly. And yes, MAing to fight your fights for you is unethical. Yes you pay money for your account but guess what..so do the rest of us. And personally.. I don't have a problem nor do I give a flying fuck if you want to be in a organization that is run by one person and you don't get votes. Go ahead, do what you like. However, what I do care about is when someone gets into a fight and brings in two other characters that THEY control to take care of it. THAT is BULLSHIT. Period.

End rant. Thx.


Okay we already said that Sabreon was going to fight a solo duel against Tamral. I fight alone a whole lot. So there goes that idea. Now on the subject of ethics. I know it's not fair that everyone doesn't have three accounts. My heart pumps piss for you it really does. But that's like playing a basketball game and complaining that someone is dunking over and it is not fair because 1.You can't do it(afford), or 2. You won't do it(personal choice). The rules are rules and we play by em. Deal with them or find a game with rules that suit your personal tastes.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Latrinsorm]

The slam dunk should be against the rules. A!

And I bet Shaq gets pissed when they keep spelling his name wrong in the dictionary.

[Tigerlily]

So, I'm new to these folders, not to the game, let's keep that in mind... I understand everyone's complaints, but I take issue with one aspect.

It might be wrong to have other characters on the same account engage in fights for the others, but as for members of a House coming to the aid of their housemates, I see nothing wrong with that. No, perhaps the housemates weren't there and didn't see what took place, but let's be real: there is such a thing as the amunet. It's not OOC for housemates to defend one another, official or not. If your character has a family, does the family stand by and watch when others attack the character? No, they come to your aid. Houses tend to echo family structures (and I realize there are exceptions, which is why I use the words "tend to"). Granted, this is only applicable when the character has been unjustly attacked. It seems there are situations named here where that has happened. Perhaps not all, but some.

I just feel we're confusing "OOC" with "anyone else becoming involved that didn't see the argument begin."

[peam]

Get on topic.

[GSTamral]

And who exactly was your commanding officer Lyonis? I mean, this should have been common information since you were a "Soldier" in the "Army" and all.


Just so you know, in official terms, firing a water pistol, or super soaker while driving in the vicinity of an Army Base would not qualify you as a rifleman.


Wanted to add: Thanks for starting that other thread Lyonis, you make a bigger ass of yourself and house dreadnot than I ever could.

[Edited on 12-2-2003 by GSTamral]

[Edited on 12-2-2003 by GSTamral]

[Latrinsorm]

Guess that means I have to take "Rifleman" out of my resume. <sigh> Thanks a lot.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by GSTamral
And who exactly was your commanding officer Lyonis? I mean, this should have been common information since you were a "Soldier" in the "Army" and all.


Just so you know, in official terms, firing a water pistol, or super soaker while driving in the vicinity of an Army Base would not qualify you as a rifleman.

[Edited on 12-2-2003 by GSTamral]

Capt. Clarke
1SG Law
Platoon SGT SFC. White



Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Jolena]

Okay Lyonis.. first of all I have NO problem with someone having multiple accounts..hell *I* have multiple accounts.. that is NOT the issue and you damn well know it. The issue is as Adhara, myself and several others have stated. Using multiple accounts to fight your fights for you IS against policy and it's just wrong in general. If you can't fight you own damned fight then you have no damned business being in it period. When you start shit with someone you should be prepared to pay the piper. Now if those other characters were controlled by other people and not by Sabreon then no, I have no problem with them defending him.. but that's NOT the case.

[Kurili]

Even if they were, generally, GMs take a dim view of someone else coming in to fight someone's battles for them, or to avenge them, anyway. Same account or not.

So it's really a moot point how many different players it is.

Acolyte Kurili

[Jolena]

That's true, but I know that if someone in my family was being threatened and they were in the right and couldn't defend themselves.. or were being bullied.. I would help them out. The fact that the three characters being used are all controlled by the same person is just added BS in my opinion. There is no honor in that therefore no respect.

[Adhara]

Pedestrians can get a ticket for crossing the street outside of planned pedestrian crossings and intersections. The police has no time to lose on stuff like that and they rarely give tickets for that (unless it caused an accident or something major). Because law enforcement chooses not to enforce law doesn't make it any more acceptable or right.

[Trinitis]

Hrm..

Reading through this entire thread, I've a few thoughts to lay out. I'm sure most will be ignored, and the rest will just flame me for it, but they are just my thoughts.

Ok, I can see an IC reason for house members to stick up for eachother. I took a LOT of shit from the Northern Fury when I blasted Perigourd. I knew it would happen, I expected it to come.

BUT! When it came down to it, the conflict was ours, and ours alone. I started the conflict, and Perigourd had every right to continue it. The Fury, as they where, did NOT attack me. I never saw anything more then frowned thoughts and words for my action. I don't view a lot of the Fury as "friends", but I do have some friends in the group. I was berated for his death, but never, ever attacked.

I feel this is how it should be..at least for the first part. If the deaths continue (Ie, old bastard killing young house member over and over, repeatedly), thats when a house (and GM's) should get involved. The FIRST order of the house leadership is to find out why.

As a leader of a large group, you DO NOT go into anything, guns blazing and bodies flying. This solves nothing. You should find out why something is happening. If things are still hostile, then the house atempts do deal with it IC (reactions depending on reactions, basicly.) If this still causes problems, then you bring in GM's to dispute the matter.

I'm not above nailing someone for breaking the rules. I am friends with a few GM's, and I normally talk to one of them before I "assist" or continue to RP out a problem. I like to know where they stand on it.

Just some random thoughts from me.

-Adredrin

[HouseofElves]

Never thought I'd say this, but Beth, you have this right on. Totally.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by HouseofElves
Never thought I'd say this, but Beth, you have this right on. Totally.

That you ever doubted me makes me want to cry.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Tsa'ah, Jakarta was a pigsty from moment one. They based the house in RR for monopolizing of the RR mana pool for enchanting. That was the ONE AND ONLY factor in determining the location of the house.

There was rozak, owning 2 of the 3 governing posts of the house.

There was the sale of the workshop key to tenser under the table for nearly 2000 in cash, after which they attempted to use GM intervention to take it away. Rozak never returned the cash either, the result of which caused Tenser to leave the game.

There was the bullying and multi-accounting rampage that ultimately did the hosue in. And we havent even touched the TIP of the iceberg on the house.

The sad thing is, Dreadnaught is even worse. I don't even grasp how its possible, but they are

You are referring to the establishment after the transition from a PRO to an official house. Jakarta, in the beginning, was a decent group.

So Tenser left because he was out 2 grand. You can't blame that on Jakarta, you have to blame it on the idiot for shelling out the cash to gain an unfair advantage.

If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that the members of Jakarta settled on RR because after 2-3 years of applying for a house, they took ANY location offered.

I'm not clear on how Rozak managed to move himself atop the ranks, I left the group before that, but it wasn't always so. A great number of decent players were members of Jakarta, including myself (not that I'm all that decent) and it just sucks that the actions of a few have branded the rest.

Get your facts straight before you start talking trash.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm in Jakarta now.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
I'm in Jakarta now.

Sakket's gone, no?

Thank god, that guy was lobotomized at birth.

[DCSL]

I have private issues with Dreadnaught, and private issues with Lyonis but I'm extremely willing to smoosh them together in this case and pronounce the whole of it as being a big fat fuck up the ol' goat ass.

Ahem. I realize I might be a bit vituperative here, but really, I will applaud the downfall, inevitable as it is, of House Dreadnaught.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by DCSL
I have private issues with Dreadnaught, and private issues with Lyonis but I'm extremely willing to smoosh them together in this case and pronounce the whole of it as being a big fat fuck up the ol' goat ass.

Ahem. I realize I might be a bit vituperative here, but really, I will applaud the downfall, inevitable as it is, of House Dreadnaught.

Incredibly vituperative. In fact, your vituperativeness makes me want to call the devituperator in order to release such excess vituperation.

Is anyone besides Tsa'ah a member of Classic Jakarta?

[Amaron]

For the record in an earlier post( i do not have the time or patience to find it)

SGM Mitra heads the PRO's. She is also the one who reviews and accepts or denies Meeting Hall Membership.

I have worked closely with her over PRO issues in the past with the PRO I am chair of ( not Dreadnaught! :grins:)

I would contact her as well....

She is a good person and SGM and works very hard for the PRO's.
If she can do anyting to help with any situations that arise I am sure she will.

But everyone who has dealings like this NEED to report and assist. Get it on record.

I never had bad experiences with any of these folks but I don't hang out where they do.

I sure do not want PRO's looked upon badly because of idiots like this.

So anyway report. assist and mail Mitra.

Just some advice.

J

[Ladyteeoncy]

Originally posted by Lyonis

Originally posted by Jolena
Just a quick question Lyonis.. because I have sat through 5 pages of this thread and would like to know now.. do you honestly condone the fact that one person controlling three souls uses them to not only fight his personal battles but also as the voting and decision making officers in your house?

I see nothing wrong in the fact that none are forced into the house and there is no pressure to stay if you want to leave. Those that are in the house are either happy to be there or they are free to leave and go on their seperate ways. We haven't made anyone drink the special kool-aid yet.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught



Ok that I will say is totally not right (to sound totally valley girl on you). You are free to leave... But, you will be hassled and made to feel an outcast. Teeoncy is not even aloud to talk to a single house member by orders of Sabreon. Sabreon has also come to me and has said that I will have no contact with the house or anyone else in the house. Is this something for him to decide? Should his "members" that are already my friends, be ordered not to interact with me? Like my little character who I will not name... (I am sure Lyonis will find out from Sabreon and post the name for me.) She was adopted by someone who she got along with extremely well. After about a week, it was brought to my attention and to Sabreon's who my little character was. (Even though she has no contact with ANY of my other characters) Sabreon demanded that the house member who adopted her not have any contact with her. If he did, he would be kicked out of the house. Sadly, my character ended up not having a father.

I also know many members who have been kicked out for not wanting to kill somebody just because that person has had a disagreement. (I will not name these two people until I have talked to them and made sure they are willing to have their names mentioned.) Why should members be forced to fight friends? I guess that goes back to being forced to fight someone else’s battle though.

And I would like to bring to attention that Sabreon is reading these posts. He thinks that by not replying, he looks good and looks like he does not care. To get around that, he reads the posts and tells Lyonis what to write much the time. But then obviously, some of these Idea's are Lyonis's.

[Hips]

Oh, look who's back.

[Ladyteeoncy]

Thanks for noticing. I am currently in class and bored as hell. So thought lets see what my "buddies" are up to.


But lets not get off topic.

[Caramia]

Originally posted by Tigerlily
It might be wrong to have other characters on the same account engage in fights for the others, but as for members of a House coming to the aid of their housemates, I see nothing wrong with that. No, perhaps the housemates weren't there and didn't see what took place, but let's be real: there is such a thing as the amunet. It's not OOC for housemates to defend one another, official or not. If your character has a family, does the family stand by and watch when others attack the character? No, they come to your aid. Houses tend to echo family structures (and I realize there are exceptions, which is why I use the words "tend to"). Granted, this is only applicable when the character has been unjustly attacked. It seems there are situations named here where that has happened. Perhaps not all, but some.

I just feel we're confusing "OOC" with "anyone else becoming involved that didn't see the argument begin."

Wrong wrong wrong.

First of all, this isn't real life, so don't use a real life comparison.

Secondly, you agree to play here according to policy and conflict is consented to between all parties directly involved.

Not people that heard rumor/innuendo/read a log or otherwise didn't actually see what was said or what happened. That's assuming that one and one side of the tale only is correct... and often, that one side is very biased/slanted to obtain a certain goal.

You're likely to be in a world of trouble if you just blindly rush into a situation before obtaining all the facts, and attempting to roleplay it out first without violence.

Heh, that gives me a new idea for a poll.

[Caramia]

In the relatively rare times that I've been harassed or attacked and have reported it to the GMs, I follow the advice I got from a Game Host. I make it clear I want no conflict. I don't say anything else, not even an insult when being goaded, so it doesn't appear that I consented. I ignore the person totally, and I move away from them if I can. If they killed me for no reason, I ask them why, so if the GMs are watching and the jerk gives some lame-ass excuse, they can nab him.

I report at the start of the situation, not after it's escalated to something I decide I'd want to back out of. I assist immediately, too. And I don't ask other friends to come into my conflict.

I learned this works a whole lot better for me, and makes the other person look like the violator, than for me to try to outwit someone who is apparently witless. It also saves me from getting pissed off in the game at people, and at the GMs.

If the situation is that bad, I'll log out and log in another character and go play elsewhere for a while, then log back in after a cooling off period and assist or report. That way if Joe+Jerk comes looking for me again, (since leaving pretty much should be a clue I don't want this conflict), they can get bagged for harassing me.

[Edited on 12-2-2003 by Caramia]

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Caramia
In the relatively rare times that I've been harassed or attacked and have reported it to the GMs, I follow the advice I got from a Game Host. I make it clear I want no conflict. I don't say anything else, not even an insult when being goaded, so it doesn't appear that I consented. I ignore the person totally, and I move away from them if I can. If they killed me for no reason, I ask them why, so if the GMs are watching and the jerk gives some lame-ass excuse, they can nab him.

I report at the start of the situation, not after it's escalated to something I decide I'd want to back out of. I assist immediately, too. And I don't ask other friends to come into my conflict.

I learned this works a whole lot better for me, and makes the other person look like the violator, than for me to try to outwit someone who is apparently witless. It also saves me from getting pissed off in the game at people, and at the GMs.

If the situation is that bad, I'll log out and log in another character and go play elsewhere for a while, then log back in after a cooling off period and assist or report. That way if Joe+Jerk comes looking for me again, (since leaving pretty much should be a clue I don't want this conflict), they can get bagged for harassing me.

[Edited on 12-2-2003 by Caramia]

If someone doesn't want to interact with us then they don't have to. While I don't personally use the warn verb myself and am rather biased against it, I will honor it if it used against me.

Yet, if someone wants to insult us, accept money to kill us, or to attack us, then they must also be willing to accept that we take it as them wishing to interact with us.

If all of you hate us so much then warn interact all members on sight, if it suits you better attack all of us on sight that's fine as well. No matter what you do I will stand by my friends, be loyal ablove all, and have a great time playing.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Jolena]

I don't hate you.. I have no respect for you. THAT in my opinion is MUCH MUCH worse. However, ya know..as long as YOU have a great time playing.. that's all that matters anyway *smirks*

[Betheny]

Way too many people care only about themselves.

If being a member of the worst PRO in GS (possibly ever) is what gets your rocks off, fine, but what gives you the right to tell everyone else they're wrong when their simple observations lead to a true conclusion?

Dreadnaught is an ego trip for the fuck that runs it, and the people that join it are coerced with promises of RPA's, alters, etc.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Maimara
Way too many people care only about themselves.

If being a member of the worst PRO in GS (possibly ever) is what gets your rocks off, fine, but what gives you the right to tell everyone else they're wrong when their simple observations lead to a true conclusion?



Obviously it is you that cares only about herself. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the right that allows me to say that your wrong and believe in my own opinion is the same right that allows you to flame me and my House on the boards. News flash hon, the rules just don't apply when they suit you.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Jolena
I don't hate you.. I have no respect for you. THAT in my opinion is MUCH MUCH worse. However, ya know..as long as YOU have a great time playing.. that's all that matters anyway *smirks*

I'm glad that you have your opinion. Let's recap though. Your a self proclaimed multi accounter. You say that you would defend those in your family that were being bullied. Yet you have no respect for people that do the same thing? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[StrayRogue]

Lyonis, you remind me of Atheana.

[tenlaughs]

I do not think she ment she would take older characters to fight younger characters battles.

[Jolena]

Actually..yes I am a self-proclaimed MA'er.. do I or have I ever in my entire time playing GS used one of my other characters to fight in a battle for me? Hell no. If Jolena gets into a problem with someone, you can place money on it that none of my other characters will show up to help out. I think that is the most incredible piece of BS I have ever heard of. So try again, Lyonis.

[Hips]

Originally posted by tenlaughs
I do not think she ment she would take older characters to fight younger characters battles.

So, Teeoncy, you gonna use the tenlaughs handle for good now? Seeing that Weedie happened to mention that you two have the same IP address, and all..

And Lyonis- I know for a fact that Jolena wouldn't use her other chars to fight battles for her. She's more honorable than that, and the characters on her other account (the ones I know of, anyway) are all low-level.

[Jolena]

Yep they are low level and even if they were 100 and uber powerful.. I would NEVER use them to fight my battles. I have access to three other accounts at this time that belong to other people who trust me and I would also NEVER use them to fight my battles. You make the bed you lie in when you get into a battle, so ya know.. you should deal with it on your own.. calling in another character that you control is cowardly plain and simple.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Jolena
Yep they are low level and even if they were 100 and uber powerful.. I would NEVER use them to fight my battles. I have access to three other accounts at this time that belong to other people who trust me and I would also NEVER use them to fight my battles. You make the bed you lie in when you get into a battle, so ya know.. you should deal with it on your own.. calling in another character that you control is cowardly plain and simple.

Oh excuse me, I most sincerely apologize. If you would NEVER EVER EVER do something than it must be the wrong thing to do.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Lyonis, you remind me of Atheana.

Who? There a thread on him/her too?

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Jolena]

Actually Lyonis.. the reason I stressed the ever is because you implied I am a hypocrit and would use my multiple accounts to fight my battles after I complained about that same thing with your house. And honestly? Just because I don't do it doesn't make it wrong..what does make it wrong is the TOS for Gemstone. It is a violation of policy to use MA to fight your battles for you.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Jolena
Actually Lyonis.. the reason I stressed the ever is because you implied I am a hypocrit and would use my multiple accounts to fight my battles after I complained about that same thing with your house. And honestly? Just because I don't do it doesn't make it wrong..what does make it wrong is the TOS for Gemstone. It is a violation of policy to use MA to fight your battles for you.

While not a policy expert, I'm pretty sure it's not a violation or Sab's guys and scores of others would probably be in trouble by now. And I didn't imply that you were a hypocrit, I flat out called you one.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Caramia]

It most definitely is a policy violation to bring more than one character/one account into a conflict you are having with someone else.

Here's a challenge, prove me wrong. Why don't you assist and ask a Game Host that very same question?

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Caramia
It most definitely is a policy violation to bring more than one character/one account into a conflict you are having with someone else.

Here's a challenge, prove me wrong. Why don't you assist and ask a Game Host that very same question?

Now that is a fair question, and I'll do that. If a Gamehost confirms your theory I will humble myself and apologize.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Caramia]

Originally posted by Lyonis
If someone doesn't want to interact with us then they don't have to. While I don't personally use the warn verb myself and am rather biased against it, I will honor it if it used against me.

Yet, if someone wants to insult us, accept money to kill us, or to attack us, then they must also be willing to accept that we take it as them wishing to interact with us.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

I'll restate one more time. An insult is not consent to conflict. While you overhearing an insult can lead to interaction with the speaker, I hope you get consent before any muscle besides your tongue is asserted.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Lyonis
Obviously it is you that cares only about herself. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the right that allows me to say that your wrong and believe in my own opinion is the same right that allows you to flame me and my House on the boards. News flash hon, the rules just don't apply when they suit you.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

Take your little cockwhores and go play Super Mario Brothers. Multiplayer games are not for you.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Maimara

Take your little cockwhores and go play Super Mario Brothers. Multiplayer games are not for you.

When something intelligent comes out of your mouth I'll respond in kind.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Betheny]

The second you set 'foot' in a multiplayer game, your enjoyment is limited to what doesn't interfere with others.

If you don't like that, take your self righteous ass, go buy a NINTENDO or a SUPER NINTENDO, and have fun.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Caramia

Originally posted by Lyonis
If someone doesn't want to interact with us then they don't have to. While I don't personally use the warn verb myself and am rather biased against it, I will honor it if it used against me.

Yet, if someone wants to insult us, accept money to kill us, or to attack us, then they must also be willing to accept that we take it as them wishing to interact with us.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

I'll restate one more time. An insult is not consent to conflict. While you overhearing an insult can lead to interaction with the speaker, I hope you get consent before any muscle besides your tongue is asserted.
Your lack of clarity is my fault and I apologize. I would assume that by my posts on the board it’s obvious I enjoy verbal conflict. If someone wants to insult me, and trade witty remarks, I am all for it. But I also will escalate the conflict in a relation to the person I’m playing with. As far as I’m concerned accepting money to kill me is consent for me to use all available resources to get revenge.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Maimara
The second you set 'foot' in a multiplayer game, your enjoyment is limited to what doesn't interfere with others.

If you don't like that, take your self righteous ass, go buy a NINTENDO or a SUPER NINTENDO, and have fun.

I would love to know how I interfere with your game play. Up until this thread started we were friends and we haven’t had any interaction in game since it started. While our characters were on opposite sides of the battle for the Griffen sword, you and I seemed to like each other on an OOC basis. I doubt we would have shared a friendship if I did disrupt your Gemstone life. I would love for you to explain this to me because I’m completely confused.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Caramia
It most definitely is a policy violation to bring more than one character/one account into a conflict you are having with someone else.

Here's a challenge, prove me wrong. Why don't you assist and ask a Game Host that very same question?

>assist request By no means is this an emergency, but I have a question about Multi Accounting and policy. If a gamehost or someone could answer a couple questions for me when they get the chance this would be greatly appreciated.
Your request has been sent to the GMs currently on duty.
You are number 18 in the queue.


Heh, might not be able to get that done tonight. But as soon as i get to speak with a host I will post about it.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Caramia]

If someone paid money to beat your ass, I'm sure you'd like proof of some kind before assuming they did, based on what someone else told you, right? Assuming you got that proof, then I would agree, the conflict is on and IC.

As for escalating things to the next level, it's a two way street, which is why consent is required. If the person doesn't wish to take it that far, you can't force them too.

By force them, let me be clear, at some point goading and stalking and other things become harassment. Then someone I bet is not having fun, if they are continually saying things that should give you a clue they don't wish to continue.

Some people will engage you freely, because they enjoy conflict. Some people will successfully ignore you and walk away. Some people will report you and warn you. Other people will not be able to resist your taunts and teases and will respond out of sheer frustration.

The question here is, are you a skilled enough roleplayer that you can you successfully determine the difference and know the boundaries of when something is consented and RPed, and when you cross a line over into harassment, which is against policy? Is Sabreon/Mistros/Kolt skilled enough? Are other members of your house skilled enough? Can you guarantee this 100%? If any of the above questions answers with a no, then you're going to have problems.

[Jolena]

Originally posted by Lyonis

Originally posted by Jolena
Actually Lyonis.. the reason I stressed the ever is because you implied I am a hypocrit and would use my multiple accounts to fight my battles after I complained about that same thing with your house. And honestly? Just because I don't do it doesn't make it wrong..what does make it wrong is the TOS for Gemstone. It is a violation of policy to use MA to fight your battles for you.

While not a policy expert, I'm pretty sure it's not a violation or Sab's guys and scores of others would probably be in trouble by now. And I didn't imply that you were a hypocrit, I flat out called you one.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

And you were flat out wrong, as I don't use the characters on my other accounts or any other accounts I have access to to fight fights for myself. I will be very interested to see the response that you get when you ask the GM about TOS policy concerning using multiple accounts to fight your conflicts for you.

[Tsa`ah]

There is absolutely no question. Bringing other accounts into a conflict, or even another character from the same account is a bannable offence. It has been that way since the move to the web, and most likely since before. I didn't pay much attention to policy pre-web, so it may have been different.

Stepping into conflicts that aren't yours, membership into a PRO or official house included, is also a good way to get pulled into a consultation lounge. I have been in conflicts with house members where other house members think that common link is substantial enough to justify entry into the conflict. To their chagrin, they have been left without a deed and reading policy because of it.

If Dreadnaught is nothing but a thug squad, expect your ranks to become culled due to disciplinary actions.

[Edited on 12-4-2003 by Tsa`ah]

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Jolena

And you were flat out wrong, as I don't use the characters on my other accounts or any other accounts I have access to to fight fights for myself. I will be very interested to see the response that you get when you ask the GM about TOS policy concerning using multiple accounts to fight your conflicts for you.

As far as your hypocrisy goes let me explain it to you. You use multiple accounts to play the game in a fashion you deem appropriate. Sabreon uses multiple accounts to play the game in a fashion that he deems appropriate. Just because it may not be exactly your version of the way the game should be played doesn’t make him wrong. Now as I have said in a previous post if the Gamehost says that the manner in which Sabreon uses his trio is against policy I will bow down and apologize. Will you in turn do the same? People make mistakes; it’s our fallibility that makes us human. If I have made a mistake here I will admit to it, I believe that is the only way we grow. I hope that you will be able to do the same if it turns out you are mistaken.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Jolena]

Of course I would say I apologize. I use multiple accounts because I roleplay two of my characters as sisters. One was my first character ever and I had to leave the game for an extended period of time and didn't realize I could reactivate an old character..so I developed a new account and made Jolena. After several months I found that I could reactivate and did so, roleplaying them as sisters and bringing them in at family functions. I don't have a problem with Sabreon MAing Lyonis. What i have the problem with is him using his MA's to fight his battles for him as it is against TOS. That is not hypocrisy.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Jolena
Of course I would say I apologize. I use multiple accounts because I roleplay two of my characters as sisters. One was my first character ever and I had to leave the game for an extended period of time and didn't realize I could reactivate an old character..so I developed a new account and made Jolena. After several months I found that I could reactivate and did so, roleplaying them as sisters and bringing them in at family functions. I don't have a problem with Sabreon MAing Lyonis. What i have the problem with is him using his MA's to fight his battles for him as it is against TOS. That is not hypocrisy.

Well, I thank you for a calm post that sounded very well thought out. I’m sure you will apologize if you are wrong as will I, though it’s going to hurt VERY VERY VERY bad. I know a lot of insults have been thrown around this thread, after all it is the character complaints folder, but if you ask normal questions and respond to my answers in a decent manner, I will never be disrespectful to you no matter how polar our views are.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Jolena]

I spose that most of my emotion involved in this thread is due to the fact that I belong to a PRO myself and am in fact a high ranking officer there. In effect, being that this is a multiple player game, everyone playing has the responsibility of being courteous of each other and their right to enjoy the gaming environment and the rules. What Sabreon does is in my 'personal' view cowardly and unethical as I stated earlier, however my main problem is that it is a direct violation of TOS policy as I think you will see when you are responded to by a GM. However, even if it wasn't so, I am not one to not admit when I am wrong. I am a very even-tempered and intelligent person most of the time and pride myself in that. I think it takes more courage to admit you are wrong and more intelligence to learn from your mistakes. Oddly enough, a very good firend of my character's joined House Dreadnaught not too long ago and I was not in the slightest miffed about it. I wished him the best, however I don't know if he realizes that the leader of said house uses his MA's to fight his fights for him. Either way, it's the violation of policy as I stated earlier that I have the strongest issue with. It takes away from the enjoyment of the game for most of us I would think.

[Lyonis]

>look had
You see GameHost Hadlir.
He appears to be an Elf.
He appears to be in the spring of life. He has sparkling blue-grey eyes and tanned skin. He has very short, curly auburn hair. He has a classical nose and tucked pointed ears.
He is in good shape.
He is wearing a small eahnor ear stud, a crystal amulet, a coraesine neckchain, a deeply hooded black cloak, a dark leather elven armband, a simple faenor band, a warped platinum star, a shiny red round button, a black silk shirt embroidered with an onyx rose on the left breast, a linen pouch, a pair of dark khaki pants, and some dark leather boots.

You say, "Okay this is just a quick policy question that has come under question."
>
Hadlir nods.
You say, "It is on the subject of muli accounting."
>
You ask, "Is it within policy if you are controlling more than one character to have all three defend you if someone attacks?"
>
>
Hadlir raises an eyebrow.
>You say, "Well this has come under question."
>
Hadlir asks, "What do you mean by, "Defend you"?"

You ask, "Like say they were having a quarrel, and someone came and attacked one of them, could the other two attack and it be within policy?"

> Hadlir says, "If it is role-played and they have reason for CvC, it is within policy."
You nod.
>
You ask, "But as a general rule the act itself is not inherently wrong?"
>
You ask, "Its being against policy is all dependent on circumstances then?"
>
Hadlir says, "If it is a matter of logging in another character who is skilled enough to harm the other person for no reason, you're getting in a more dangerous zone."

You say, "Right."

You ask, "But if it's multiple accounts, then its okay as long as it follows normal CvC rules?"

Hadlir says, "As far as I understand it, yes."
>
Hadlir says, "So long as you follow the CvC rules."

You say, "Thank you much ."
>
Hadlir asks, "Does that answer your question?"

You say, "Aye it does very much so."


So it was as I figured, Multi Accounting follows the same general guidelines that all players must adhere to. As long as they would have an IC reason to attack it is perfectly within policy as far as this Gamehost knew.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Tsa`ah]

Ask a slanted question and you will get a slanted answer.

The question was pretty ambiguous. Pose the question to a GM and be more specific.

A conflict between a character and a character belonging to a house is not a justifiable reason for other house members to enter the conflict.

[Caiylania]

You should have done a who full and allowed people debating this with you that were in game to come and ask their questions too. Might have resolved this more.

[Betheny]

I refer to yo ur house, not you personally.

[tenlaughs]

I say someone should ask the GM's that isn't going to "Sugar Coat it.” Maybe someone who will say the truth, “Is it ok for someone to pick a fight and finding they have no chance of winning, then bringing two other characters into the situation and triple teaming the person, killing them until they either get on their knees and beg for forgiveness, log out, or go demonic. (Of course in GS IV you can no longer go demonic.)

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Ask a slanted question and you will get a slanted answer.

The question was pretty ambiguous. Pose the question to a GM and be more specific.

A conflict between a character and a character belonging to a house is not a justifiable reason for other house members to enter the conflict.

In what way was the question slanted? This is the challenge issued to me by Caramia

. It most definitely is a policy violation to bring more than one character/one account into a conflict you are having with someone else.

Here's a challenge, prove me wrong. Why don't you assist and ask a Game Host that very same question?


My question to the gamehost was….
> Hadlir says, "If it is role-played and they have reason for CvC, it is within policy."
You nod.
>
You ask, "But as a general rule the act itself is not inherently wrong?"
>
You ask, "Its being against policy is all dependent on circumstances then?"
>
Hadlir says, "If it is a matter of logging in another character who is skilled enough to harm the other person for no reason, you're getting in a more dangerous zone."

You say, "Right."

You ask, "But if it's multiple accounts, then its okay as long as it follows normal CvC rules?"

Hadlir says, "As far as I understand it, yes."
>
Hadlir says, "So long as you follow the CvC rules."

I think that satisfies the challenge I was given. The question was not skewed nor was it meant to trick the Gamehost into answering it to my liking. If you control more than one account and they are together it is completely okay to have all three defend if you are attacked. Conflict must follow the normal CvC rules. I am very sorry that you were mistaken as to how policy applies to this issue.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[tenlaughs]

But you people are bullying others! By no means is it innocent.

[Lyonis]

I have to admit, all of these posts have really caused me to reflect and take a serious and critical look at the House Lyonis has sworn allegiance to. What was puzzling me was that we seemed so well loved in our home of the Elven Nations, yet if you just read these posts we appear to be monsters. Lyonis himself has been portrayed as some kind of heartless bully himself, which is even more troubling, yet in the town he resides he’s very well respected and has been known for many acts of kindness and charity. So I thought about how this discrepancy can be explained. My idea was to figure out a way to separate the posts that had legitimate complaints from the ones that are just plain BS.

There are the people that fall into the Syberus category. Syberus doesn’t like us because he was paid to kill us in GS3 and was later repaid deed for deed in GS4. Well Syberus then turned into a crybaby and whined and warned his way in a manner that would have made Maimara take pause. Beaten and ashamed of his cowardice, Syberus has become a slanderer of our House. The Syberus category is for those that bit off a little more than they can chew and now want to say that it’s not their fault.

Since I just mentioned Maimara, I’ll go to her category next. Maimara hates the world. I happen to exist in the world along with my House. Hence Maimara hates us. Posters who just never seem to have anything positive to say fall in this category. Yes Beth, this gives you full authorization to call me one of your clever pet names for me and my associates.

The next two categories would appear to be separate but they really are one. I call this one the Tamral/Teeoncy category. Teeoncy used to be one of us, but she turned out to be a huge psycho. I don’t really feel the need to elaborate further; there are nearly a thousand posts that do a far better job then I ever could. When Teeoncy received the right foot of fellowship from the House, and Sabreon didn’t love her, she became quite bitter against us. Now Tamral, God bless his soul, is one of Teeoncy’s bitches. The poor guy doesn’t know what he’s doing and really I don’t think he’s a bad guy. He’s just a little misguided.

Next is the follower group. These are the people that have never met Lyonis or any Dreadnaught yet hate us because all the “cool kids” on the boards don’t like us. They follow along with the logic that StrayRogue has a few thousand posts and he hates Dreadnaught, so I should too.

Last is a group that is by no means insignificant, yet they certainly don’t make up anywhere near the majority of the posts. These are people with legitimate gripes and questions. These are people that either have really been hurt by either me or my house, or have real questions about the issues raised. My House is not perfect and I’m sure we’ve hurt people in the past, and will most likely do it again. We can only try to learn from out mistakes. The people that fall in this category, the ones that make thoughtful statements about our mistakes, those are the ones that have the ability to force change.

Too often, myself included, have resorted to childish insults. For example, Tamral slandering my name and claiming I have never served my country as a proud infantryman. I did my three years, and earned my blue cord and crossed rifles. For the sake of playing devil’s advocate, let’s say that I never did serve and I play Lyonis in a militaristic style House. Really what would be wrong with that? Should we have to email pictures to Simu to get our characters to have certain features? Should we have to take fitness tests to qualify to be warriors or train in certain weapons? Should we be able to perform magic tricks before a board of judges before we can roleplay a wizard? Neither should the issue of my service to country be an issue in whether House Dreandnaught is right or wrong. I only told of my time in the Army to attempt to explain certain things about how soldiers fight.

The point is if only the posts with legitimate gripes were to remain, the view an outsider would get of the House wouldn’t be all that bad. To tell you the truth, that realization put a smile on my face.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Miss X]

Lyonis, I respect the fact that you are so loyal, and I consider many of the members of your house to be friends, however I think you are failing to see the truth in some ways.
From what I can gather Maimara and others arnt mad at your house because they hate the world. There is a reason why so many are against Sabreon, and I dont believe its just idle gossip.

Ive never seen Sabreon be anything but kind to me, but it would be silly to ignore a lot of evidence that suggests he is not so kind. I wonder, as head of the 'house' why he has chosen not to defend himself here? Im sure he's been reading this thread, and its quite interesting that he has chosen not to respond.
Vx

[tenlaughs]

I never loved Sabreon. I was dumb and thought being with him, Teeoncy could be part of a house, have someone who controlled a bard, sorc, empath, wizard all for spells. It was good for her to be with Sabreon. (Had more power) When I was dragged along to bully someone one day and showed up to the place, I happened to see a very good friend. I quickly gave them a hug and we started talking in whispers. Then, Sabreon whispered to me and said, "What are you doing? That is the person we are here to kill!"

Well that is when I realized it wasn’t worth it. I also realized that the next person Teeoncy was to be with would be someone she got along with and she agreed with on views. I could not stand by Sabreon’s side. With his views and decisions I could not be loyal. I set out to find someone I could respect and stand by their side no matter what decision they make, and I found that person.

[Adhara]

Wow talk about brainwash! Well respected in the Elven Nations? Take a poll and find out I say!

Lyonis, I had hopes that through you, the trio would get some sense pounded into them/him. I see now how silly of me it was to think something good could come out of this thread. In the one instance I saw Lyonis in action with my own eyes, it was a case of pure bullying and harassment. I tried to tell myself this might just be the way the character is played but with your posts here, I see that it's the player that is totally brainwashed.

Loyalty is a great quality to have, so I still have hope, hope that when (if) you do realize everything that's dreadfully wrong with dreadnaught, you will leave and pledge that loyalty to a better cause.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Adhara
Wow talk about brainwash! Well respected in the Elven Nations? Take a poll and find out I say!

Lyonis, I had hopes that through you, the trio would get some sense pounded into them/him. I see now how silly of me it was to think something good could come out of this thread. In the one instance I saw Lyonis in action with my own eyes, it was a case of pure bullying and harassment. I tried to tell myself this might just be the way the character is played but with your posts here, I see that it's the player that is totally brainwashed.

Loyalty is a great quality to have, so I still have hope, hope that when (if) you do realize everything that's dreadfully wrong with dreadnaught, you will leave and pledge that loyalty to a better cause.

That's a fair response, though I have no clue what incident your talking about. If Adhara is your character's name I honestly can't say I know her. I would appreciate you telling a bit of the encounter you had with me.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Syberus]

Why is it you feel the need to attack people without honestly having any idea what's going on? I didn't "bite off more than I could chew" as I illistrated by dropping all three of your monkey ass house leaders at once when I so desired. The fact of the matter is, it's stupid and childish to run back and forth killing each other because you have nothing better to do than get into a pissing contest with someone who killed you a few months ago. Now as I said earlier, I spoke with Sabreon personally for about half an hour and an agreement was reached. Why is it you feel the need to continue to run your mouth? To be quite honest you're reflecting quite poorly upon Sabreon at this point, and I personally didn't think that was possible. However he has shown at least the capacity to have an intelligent conversation. Perhaps you and all your officers or just one since it doesn't particularly matter should be on the same page before you run off continuing to be the mascot for one of the saddest houses I have ever seen.

[Caramia]

Lyonis, the question I suggested you ask, with a tiny bit of paraphrasing is:
Is it is a policy violation to bring more than one character/one account into a conflict you are having with someone else?

This means that if Sabreon is in conflict with Joe Schmo, the conflict is between those two only, and no one else can come into it unless invited (and gaining consent).

You asked the rather vague (and I have to agree, slanted):
Is it within policy if you are controlling more than one character to have all three defend you if someone attacks?

You didn't define what defend means. Or even attacks. Or even why someone would attack. Like in the case of goading and harassment.

Your questions states that all four people are present at the time, too -- Sabreon, Mistros, Kolts and Joe Schmo. This does make it sound like a roleplaying situation and asking if using three characters in a roleplaying situation is okay.

If you read many of the previous posts by those who take issue with your house or Sabreon and his zombies, it addresses the fact that either none of them were present and in conflict with the one that got attacked, or that one was in conflict with one character, and the others came out of nowhere. Also, that they acted on rumor, innuendo, and hearsay -- something they didn't witness, instead of actually being present to what was said or done.

Had you asked Game Host Hadlir about those types of scenarios, you would have gotten a less vague answer.

I have to agree with another poster who suggested you speak with a GM, who can talk more plainly.

[Edited on 12-5-2003 by Caramia]

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Syberus
Why is it you feel the need to attack people without honestly having any idea what's going on? I didn't "bite off more than I could chew" as I illistrated by dropping all three of your monkey ass house leaders at once when I so desired. The fact of the matter is, it's stupid and childish to run back and forth killing each other because you have nothing better to do than get into a pissing contest with someone who killed you a few months ago. Now as I said earlier, I spoke with Sabreon personally for about half an hour and an agreement was reached. Why is it you feel the need to continue to run your mouth? To be quite honest you're reflecting quite poorly upon Sabreon at this point, and I personally didn't think that was possible. However he has shown at least the capacity to have an intelligent conversation. Perhaps you and all your officers or just one since it doesn't particularly matter should be on the same page before you run off continuing to be the mascot for one of the saddest houses I have ever seen.

Syberus, I’m really sorry that you are having such a tough time with this. I really wish you could go back to the ever so happy world where you could kill people for money and brag about how easy it was. The fact is Syberus, you jumped in on other threads bragging about how easy it was to kill me and Sabreon’s trio. I didn’t ask you to do that, nor did Sabreon. Your involvement with us could of ended when you received your 500k note upon our deaths. You kill people for money, then you brag about it in unrelated conversations to boost your ego. Now you want to cry when your ass gets kicked. I’m sorry Syb, I really thought you were a cool guy, but man you cry WAY too much.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Caramia
This means that if Sabreon is in conflict with Joe Schmo, the conflict is between those two only, and no one else can come into it unless invited (and gaining consent).

[Edited on 12-5-2003 by Caramia]

I’m sorry Caramia, but according to the Gamehost it’s just not true. As long as there is a valid RP reason for getting involved in the fight the Gamehost said it’s perfectly legal.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Syberus]

Are you illiterate or just retarded? When have I cried about "getting my ass kicked" if you can define it as being attacked without attempting to defend myself. I believe I spoke of the incident ONE time, when it was brought up by YOU. Even after I was attacked and killed by all three of your fearless leaders I dropped them with little effort. Your claims are baseless and illogical. Try saying something that isn't pulled out of your ass.

[Caramia]

Originally posted by Lyonis
I’m sorry Caramia, but according to the Gamehost it’s just not true. As long as there is a valid RP reason for getting involved in the fight the Gamehost said it’s perfectly legal.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

I'll point out one more time, Lyonis, you didn't ask the question that I suggested you ask, you made it sound like a roleplaying situation.

The comments here on the boards aren't about valid roleplaying situations... at all.

Keep reporting Sabreon/Mistros/Kolts, let the GMs take care of them. And make it very clear you aren't consenting to conflict with any of them.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Syberus
Are you illiterate or just retarded? When have I cried about "getting my ass kicked" if you can define it as being attacked without attempting to defend myself. I believe I spoke of the incident ONE time, when it was brought up by YOU. Even after I was attacked and killed by all three of your fearless leaders I dropped them with little effort. Your claims are baseless and illogical. Try saying something that isn't pulled out of your ass.

I think I have been too hard on you. I doubt you'll accept it but I am sorry.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Lyonis
I’m sorry Caramia, but according to the Gamehost it’s just not true. As long as there is a valid RP reason for getting involved in the fight the Gamehost said it’s perfectly legal.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

I believe you will find that if you put this to a test, and the character being attacked does not AGREE to be attacked by another character AND his/her henchmen, you will end by explaining it all to a GM if it is Reported. The fact that the character being attacked does not agree to be attacked by the whole group will, most likely, lend an entirely different ending to the scenario than that which you are presupposing.

HarmNone has seen this before

*Edited to make sense...since I did not*

[Edited on 12-5-2003 by HarmNone]

[Silleck]

Dude Lynois your a tool, get this, I went down to vaalor, and everyone there, picks on young people, So I brought my friend Gallahan down whos a 61 ranger, told him tos trip downand dress as a newbie, and of course SAME shit happened, so he webs everyone to teach them a lesson, Lyonis who thinks hes a badass, decides to duel gallahan. Gallahan who is just standing there, lyonis comes up, spikes him, swings tweice, gallahan hasn't done a thing yet, gallahan spikes him once after all lyonis did, kills him, lyonis gets the house to come down, kolts, mistros, and the other dumb fuck to come down and start shit, when gallahan spiked lyonis. cause lyonis couldnt handle the shit he got himself into, so the house kills gallahan a few times and so on, finally gallahan is like he wants to get his house bitches involved, he calls siafu down from the rift, and when they come after gallahan siafu binds, and stuns them all, and ALL of a sudden the house is on its knees begging not to get killed, pretty much crying. all shit talking stopped, all they did was whine and cry, they act all big and tough when its 3 on 1 againist someone smaller, but when someone bigger comes along, it's a new story. they all bitches and lyonis your a fucking tool.

[Betheny]

I hate the world?

Ookay guy.

I had a valid point but whatever, if you want to dismiss me fine. This thread sucks.

[Syberus]

Lyonis as this is text and I personally do not know you that well. I have no idea if your apology was heartfealt or another smartass remark. If it was however an admittance to your being in the wrong... then it is accepted. I'm not a vengful person when my foe accepts that they were in the wrong and apologize. However if you were being a jackass feel free to eat shit and die. And of course disregard that if you were not.

[Silleck]

He's a fucking tool, probally was being a jackass

[Jolena]

Well..as I said before, if proved wrong I would indeed apologize. I however, have to side with the others when I say that the situation was not detailed enough to honestly get a straight answer from the GM you spoke with. So.. in conclusion, I myself will speak with a GM and propose several situations.

A) Joe Schmo has a conflict with Jolena. Noone else from my house is present. I bring in two other characters from my house who's "RP' reason to enter the conflict is because we are all in the same house, although these house members are under my personal control.

B) Joe Schmo and Jolena have a conflict and the two other house members, controlled by myself once more, are present and enter the conflict based on the "RP" reason that they witnessed it and are in the same house.

C) Joe Schmo and Jolena have a conflict and I lose. Later on I bring in two other house members and myself, all under my control, to enter a conflict with Jo based on the "RP" reason that we are all in the same house.

I will also ask the GM regarding consentual CvC as well and the reprecussions that can occur should this be a violation of policy.

Now, upon that being said, IF I am mistaken and none of those three situations is a violation of TOS policy, Lyonis I will most humbly apologize to you on these boards without hesitation.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Syberus
Lyonis as this is text and I personally do not know you that well. I have no idea if your apology was heartfealt or another smartass remark. If it was however an admittance to your being in the wrong... then it is accepted. I'm not a vengful person when my foe accepts that they were in the wrong and apologize. However if you were being a jackass feel free to eat shit and die. And of course disregard that if you were not.

Yeah it's hard to tell sometimes in text the tone of the writer. My apology was completely sincere and I consider Syberus a honorable adversary.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Jolena
Well..as I said before, if proved wrong I would indeed apologize. I however, have to side with the others when I say that the situation was not detailed enough to honestly get a straight answer from the GM you spoke with. So.. in conclusion, I myself will speak with a GM and propose several situations.

A) Joe Schmo has a conflict with Jolena. Noone else from my house is present. I bring in two other characters from my house who's "RP' reason to enter the conflict is because we are all in the same house, although these house members are under my personal control.

B) Joe Schmo and Jolena have a conflict and the two other house members, controlled by myself once more, are present and enter the conflict based on the "RP" reason that they witnessed it and are in the same house.

C) Joe Schmo and Jolena have a conflict and I lose. Later on I bring in two other house members and myself, all under my control, to enter a conflict with Jo based on the "RP" reason that we are all in the same house.

I will also ask the GM regarding consentual CvC as well and the reprecussions that can occur should this be a violation of policy.

Now, upon that being said, IF I am mistaken and none of those three situations is a violation of TOS policy, Lyonis I will most humbly apologize to you on these boards without hesitation.

I have full confidence that you will do so if proven wrong, you have been one of my most reasonable adversaries on this thread. I'm going to say that I agree that A and C are going to be in violation of policy in certain cases. I would say that under a lot of circumstances they would disagree with what I feel is right. Now B on the other hand I got to go against. I just think that it wouldn’t make any sense to attack someone in front of his friends, regardless of who is playing them, and not expect to be attacked by the group.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Silleck]

I love how lyonis replies to everyone elses post but the one where he knows he got fucking caught hahaha so cute

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Silleck
I love how lyonis replies to everyone elses post but the one where he knows he got fucking caught hahaha so cute

?????

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

Lyonis i would like to point out that GameHosts know little of policy and are just that "hosts" they refer to GameMasters when policy questions are raised or policy itself need to be interpreted.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by The Edine
Lyonis i would like to point out that GameHosts know little of policy and are just that "hosts" they refer to GameMasters when policy questions are raised or policy itself need to be interpreted.

News to me and thanks for that bit of info. I was just responding to the challenge given.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

speak to a gamemaster if you question policy GH's are Receptionists

[Jolena]

Just so you know Lyonis, I did speak to a GH today and was referred to a GM partially because she didn't want to be put on the 'spot' haha. However, I am awaiting the GM's response and will post as soon as I know something.

[Tigerlily]

Wrong wrong wrong.

First of all, this isn't real life, so don't use a real life comparison.

Secondly, you agree to play here according to policy and conflict is consented to between all parties directly involved.

Not people that heard rumor/innuendo/read a log or otherwise didn't actually see what was said or what happened. That's assuming that one and one side of the tale only is correct... and often, that one side is very biased/slanted to obtain a certain goal.

You're likely to be in a world of trouble if you just blindly rush into a situation before obtaining all the facts, and attempting to roleplay it out first without violence.

-- Caramia

I just wrote all this out and lost it all to cyberspace. Bummer.

As for the first part, if you're roleplaying according to non-real-life rules, then practically nothing anyone says here is applicable. Everything is then changed, and you can't categorize someone's actions as "assuming" or "blindly rush[ing] into a situation" without resorting to real life rules of interaction. Make a choice.

As for the rest of it, I never said a word about reading a log, hearing a rumor, or perceiving an innuendo -- I'm talking about one character giving another a run-down of the situation. Yes, it's going to be biased, but that's inherent to the situation, and whatever judgment a character makes based on that biased story is her or his choice.

My girls would never act in this type of scenario without hearing the story from several points of view, but then, that's not their characters. Do you plan on telling others how to roleplay theirs?

Furthermore, if someone you know and trust is telling the story, chances are you'll believe it. If you can deny that, I fear for your friends.

Frankly it sounds to me as the characters we're discussing aren't the ones blindly rushing into things.

[Lyonis]

Tamral? Are you coming to Illistim for your duel?

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Caramia]

Tigerlily, you need to go back and reread this whole thread.

If you do, you'll find the majority of people have said that the three characters or so mentioned have been coming into situations based upon what they heard via IM, email, or the comments of others, and went on the attack before checking to see if it was true or valid... without having been present when the comment or action was made, without being invited into the conflict, or without getting consent. That IS called rushing blindly into things and making assumptions. So there is nothing wrong with my post or viewpoint.

As for believing what my friends say, in real life I would generally give them the benefit of doubt. BUT, I certainly try not not to take action until I've learned what I can about the OTHER side of the story in the situation, since it often takes two sides, even three... because we all know that somewhere between the A's version of things and B's version of things, there is also C's, the truth.

In the game, you really need to take that a step further. You play according to certain rules in GS4, among them is a policy about conflict and the consent needed for it. That's not me telling people how they can roleplay, that's the owners and managers of this here game telling you there are guidelines for acceptable roleplaying. Of course, those incapable of following those guidelines aren't here for the duration...

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Lyonis
Tamral? Are you coming to Illistim for your duel?

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

Here Lyonis, I'll save you some trouble. Tamral posted this today.





posted on 12-6-2003 at 01:54 PM

an Extended Leave

Given how circumstances about my work and other things have changed, and the fact that one by one, most of the people I grew up playing with have seemed to leave, I have decided to take an extended leave from the game. Not a complaint against GS4, and not a complaint or flame against any member of staff, I just feel the fire and desire to play has gone down to the point where it simply is not worth it to try and stay active with things.

To all those I called friends, I bid you a fond farewell, and to those I have called enemies, I bid you farewell as well. Not that this is permanent, but I guess after some time has passed, I will have to re-evaluate if it is worth it for me to stay.

For the time being, I have put my account in the hands of someone I trust inherently, but I do not think that this will entail that someone else will be posing as me in the game much. I more expect the body to simply slumber.



[Edited on 12-7-2003 by LordAdredrin]

[Jolena]

Alright today I spoke to a GM in the meeting hall in Ta'Illistim. For all of you interested, here is the log of such meeting.

*** GameMaster Agro Tu'laver is here to answer your referral. ***

Agro asks, "Hallo Jolena, are you within your mind?"
>
Agro wiggles his eyebrows.
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>You wake up from your daydream, and begin paying attention again.
You smile.
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You say, "Aye."

You say, "Sorry ."

Agro exclaims, "So!"
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Agro says, "Talk to me, fill me in."
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You say, "So! I have a few questions for you."
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You smile.
>l agro
You see GameMaster Agro Tu'laver.
He appears to be a Giant of the Grot'karesh Clan.
He appears to be wizened with age and taller than average. He has silver-flecked steel grey eyes and tanned skin. He has shoulder length, thick black hair streaked with silver. He has a clean-shaven face, a straight nose and broad shoulders.
He has a bone-stemmed pale mistwood pipe clenched between his teeth.
He is in good shape.
He has a clump of smelly armpit fur stuck in his right hand.
He is wearing a yellowed lopsided snaggletooth, a scuff-covered feathered hide mantle edged with hexagonal rolaren studs, a tattered bloodstained armband bearing ancient imperial ranks, a green bronze leaping panther charm, a snarling ebon boar's head ring, an ink-black knotwork satchel, a delicate glass bubble pin, a huge shiny antiromanticism button, a battered thrak hide bandolier, a brain-spattered grey silk shirt emblazoned with a laurel-wearing happy face, a twisted three-pronged goatee linked with tiny bones, a pair of vegetable-toned sympatric pantaloons stained black pomegranate with parsley delectable supergranulated chocolate macaroon ensigilments, a poorly-constructed toolpack woven from vagrant nymph hair, a distorted sobbing face mask, and a faded leather belt.
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Agro says, "I know the generalities already."
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You say, "Oh good."
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You grin.
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Agro says, "But nothing is better than the freesh ones."
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You say, "I didn't wanna have to go through that all again."
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You say, "Well I have an acquaintence that I am debating the TOS policies of CvC with multiple accounts over."
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You say, "He belongs to House Dreadnaught and his leader openly MA's and uses the souls on his other accounts to enter into conflict with other people."
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You say, "He has never hid it."
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You shrug.
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Agro nods to you.
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You say, "However, I think it's against TOS policy."
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You say, "And my acquaintence does not."
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You say, "So..I offered to speak to a GM regarding this and find out for sure."
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You say, "He spoke to a GH and didn't get a very solid answer."
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You ask, "When you were given the generalities of it.. did they give you the scenarious I presented?"
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Agro nods to you.
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Agro says, "Indeed."
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You ask, "Okay so what can you tell me?"
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You smile.
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Agro says, "Well, there are hard rules of course, and RP does not supplant them."
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You nod.
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You say, "I personally don't use souls on my other accounts to enter into conflict."
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You say, "But this acquaintence's leader does."
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Agro says, "You cannot have a conflict with another player, and then without that player's agreement bring in another of your characters to attack them."
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You say, "And those three scenarios I brought to the GH were the situations he has used that for. ."
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You ask, "So..how do you go about getting that players' agreement?"
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Agro says, "Well, as it would be an agreement that counters our rules, it would need to be a very clear, preferably whispered, agreement."
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You nod.
>
You ask, "And if the agreement was not made beforehand?"
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You ask, "And the chracter's other souls did enter the conflict?"
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Agro says, "Then it is the duty of the target player to use the WARN and HARRASS verbs, as well as whispering to the player in question that you do not recognize a conflict with him."
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You nod.
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Agro says, "Really, ideally, it would be handled with an RP method."
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Agro winks.
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You ask, "So am I to understand that the roleplay of being family, a house member or friend alone is not justification to bring other souls you control into a conflict with another character?"
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Agro says, "IE, "My trouble is not with you, it is with your brother, and I refuse to submit to combat with you."
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You smile.
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Agro says, "Correct."
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You ask, "And what are the consequences of continuing such actiosn without the express consent of the character you are in conflict with?"
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Agro says, "Now, as to your last question first..."
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Agro says, "My answer is if the conflict is physical."
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Agro says, "So if a person comes up to you and says, "You killed my brother, I want revenge"."
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You nod.
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Agro says, "That is different than them coming up and killing you."
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Agro says, "And could very well lead to a fresh conflict, should you choose to participate."
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You say, "Or even if "You insulted my brother, I seek revenge of his honor" ."
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Agro says, "You cannot at that point go, "Hah hah, I killed your brother, you can't do anything to me about it. You are lame... etc."
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You giggle at Agro.
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Agro says, "Insults are not cause to allow a one-sided physical conflict."
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Agro says, "BOTH parties have to agree to escalate."
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You nod.
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You ask, "Murder is?"
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Agro says, "No, murder is not."
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You nod.
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Agro says, "If your brother got killed, he should go to the constable."
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Agro says, "We're not a lawless land."
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Agro flashes a quick grin.
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Agro says, "Generally."
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You say, "So.. yes the murder of said 'brother' can be reason to RP a conflict with the assailant.. but both parties must consent to the combat ensuing if so."
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Agro says, "Yes. And as long as it is kept in character."
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You ask, "Now if both parties do not consent.. then there is no way to pursue it and still be within TOS policy, correct?"
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Agro says, "But if that person with the brother forces combat, they just broke a very clear rule."
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You nod.
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You say, "I see, that is what I thought."
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Agro says, "It is mostly common sense."
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You ask, "Are there any specific rules regarding MA'ing and conflict?"
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You say, "Aye it is.. you would think."
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You wink at Agro.
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Agro says, "Sure there is. We know who is MAing in any given situation, and if the victimized player decides to Report about being harrassed by multiple characters we have a pretty clear-cut case."
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You nod.
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You say, "As long as express consent was not given to engage with the other characters."
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Agro says, "Correct. If they come out of the blue and attack you, that is wrong. If they come out and you tell them you do not wish to fight them, and they attack, that is wrong."
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You nod.
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Agro says, "If you tell them, "Nya nya, policy says you can't kill me"..."
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Agro says, "Well, that's stupid."
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Agro grins.
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You chuckle.
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You nod.
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Agro asks, "And if you get insulting on them... guess what??"
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You say, "It shoudl all be done in character in other words."
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Agro says, "You just agreed to participate."
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You nod.
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You say, "So..let me get this straight."
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Agro says, "You can always walk away too."
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You say, "Jo schmo enters into conflict with myself."
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You say, "I bring in my other multiple characters to confront him.. or they are already present..either or."
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You say, "One of my other souls confronts Jo Schmo and says "You murdered my sister/you insulted my sister.. I seek revenge."."
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Agro says, "Wait."
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Agro grins.
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You say, "Jo Schmo says "My problem is with your sister, not you.. I don't wish to enter into combat."."
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Agro says, "While he CAN say that..."
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You say, "Oh okay."
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You chuckle.
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Agro says, "Effectively he is saying, "I want to start conflict with you because of another of MY OWN characters."
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You nod.
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You exclaim, "EXACTLY!"
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You turn to Agro and cheer!
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Agro says, "Now, that in and of itself is already pushing it a bit."
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You nod.
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You say, "I agree."
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You beam!
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Agro says, "Unless agreed upon beforehand."
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Agro says, "BUT.... it can still be handled reasonably from there."
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You say, "Okay so.. saying that is what occurs..and Jo schmo's response is as I stated before.."
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Agro says, "After Jo says that, RP could easily continue."
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You say, "And still the multiple souls press forth with the conflict.. ."
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Agro says, "If the person attacks without agreement, then the line is crossed."
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You say, "They are in violation if they attack physically."
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Agro nods.
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Agro says, "Correct."
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You ask, "Now..if they are just insulting Jo.. then are they in violation?"
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Agro says, "But again, when that happens a policy has been broekn."
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Agro says, "Broken."
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You nod.
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Agro says, "And you nor any other player is here to correct that."
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You nod.
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You say, "I suggested assisting and warning personally."
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You shrug.
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Agro says, "Once a policy is broken, it is your responsibility to distance yourself from the breakers."
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You say, "But people don't want to be known as the 'warn type'."
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Agro says, "If you continue interacting with them after the point of policy being broken, you risk yourself, as well as likely damn your case."
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You nod.
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Agro says, "Policy is not a weapon that can be wielded by a player."
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Agro winks and flashes a sly grin.
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You say, "Understood. So Jo should at that point, leave the area and cease interaction with the character breaking policy. ."
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Agro says, "Oh yes, absolutely. Unless the idea of fighting them excites him too."
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You grin at Agro.
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You nod.
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You say, "If Jo after telling the character he has no problem with him and doesn't wish to enter into combat.."
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You ask, "Starts to insult the character.. then he is in effect giving permission to fight?"
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You peer quizzically at Agro.
Agro says, "Yes."
>frown
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You frown.
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Youask, "So.. insulting is considered a reason to enter into combat with someone?"
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Agro says, "It is considered participating, and a valid escalation."
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You nod.
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You say, "Thank you, I thought so too."
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You smile.
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You say, "We had a debate once whether or not insulting someone was particpating in a conflict and inviting combat potentially."
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You say, "I thought it was."
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Agro says, "Let me just tell you this though Jolena..."
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You say, "But only with that specific person."
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You say, "NOT his other souls."
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Agro says, "Everything I've told you here is general policy that you are trying to make very specific."
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You grin.
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Agro says, "But even my answers cannot cover every eventuality."
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Agro says, "AND..."
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You say, "I know..and I apologize.. but there will no doubt be someone who says there is a loophole in this explanation."
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You chuckle.
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Agro says, "By knowing these rules more clearly, you could be more tempted to try to skirt them more closely."
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You say, "Well..actually..I don't do it at all."

You grin.
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Agro says, "I''m just saying."
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Agro says, "These are serious problems, and for you or anyone to be taken seriously when they report a problem like this, they need to not have led it along."
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You nod.
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You say, "I completely understand."
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You say, "The only problem I see is.."
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Agro says, "You do not need to play it so close, nor is it your responsibility to teach policy to others."
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You say, "That sometimes tempers run high.. and if after being involved in combat with someone.. and killing them.. when someone else approaches you.. and you are still angry..and they want to combat you as well.. and are insulting.. you are tempted to respond in kind."
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Agro says, "As I said, once a situation arises in which policy is being broken or VERY CLOSE to being broken, it is your responsibility to back off, and let us worry about the other."
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You nod.
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You say, "Agreed."
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Agro nods to you.
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You smile.
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Agro says, "Sure, and you can if you wish."
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You say, "This has been very informative. ."
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You smile.
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You say, "Thank you so much Agro. I appreciate your time here with me today."
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Agro says, "All non-mechanical problems here can be resolved with roleplaying."
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Agro winks at you.
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You say, "I believe so too."
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Agro says, "Really."
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You nod to Agro.
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You say, "That is what bothers me."
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Agro says, "No, and there are policies against that."
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You nod.
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Agro says, "But "battle" was the key word there."
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You say, "So basically..warn and assist."
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Agro says, "If it crosses the line, yes. And remove yourself from the situation for your own safety."
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You say, "If the problem continues after you tell said person you have no problem with them specifically. ."
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You nod.
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You say, "Thank you Agro."
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You smile.
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You stand back up.
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Agro says, "Not "I lost a deed" safety, "I lost my account" safety."
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You curtsy to Agro.
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Agro chuckles.
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Agro turns towards you and renders you a sharp hand salute.
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You nod.
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Agro says, "My pleasure."
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Agro exclaims, "Good luck Jolena!"
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You say, "Thank you, enjoy your evening."
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You smile.
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You wave to Agro.
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Agro waves to you.
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Agro gestures and a shaft of scintillating light from somewhere above pierces the ceiling and engulfs him. When the light recedes Agro is no longer there.


Now, make of it what you will lyonis, but to me, it specifically says that it is against TOS policy to bring in other characters into a conflict without the express consent of the other player.

[Caramia]

Thank you Jolena, I was going to assist as well and speak with a GM but you beat me to it!

[Jolena]

No problem, I had told Lyonis I would try to speak to a GM and be specific so we could cover every area.

[Betheny]

So Lyonis is wrong? Wow. I'm not surprised, because this is the same answer I got from the GM's I spoke to when those dumbasses tried to come after me when I had the Griffin Sword pommel. It was an excuse for them to 'beat me more'... and we wonder why I spent two weeks locked in a room in a temple? lol

[Jolena]

K I never heard that story..how and why did you end up locked up in a temple room for 2 weeks?

[Jolena]

Hrrm...Still no response from Lyonis. Interesting.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Jolena
Hrrm...Still no response from Lyonis. Interesting.

Thank you Jolena for taking up your personal time for that lengthy question and answer session with a GM. It would appear that I have been mistaken about some of my views on policy. I said if I was wrong I would admit it and there it is. I do have a couple of questions though and maybe you could shed some light on them. You failed to ask if you are right there when an attack comes if you are allowed to defend your friend. My gut feeling would be to say yes it’s okay. The gamehost said it would be okay, but than again as it was pointed out to me, they are nothing more than glorified receptionists.

Why then if what my house does is so wrong is policy not enforced? I can only assume that maybe it’s the GM’s application of the standard that is not consistent. Either way I’m tired and I’m going to bed. Sorry it took so long to respond I thought the thread was dead long ago. I really would of thought that you would of expected more of me than to not respond simply because I was wrong.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Maimara
and we wonder why I spent two weeks locked in a room in a temple? lol


I can only assume you surround yourself with people that are similar to yourself. In that case I would say it makes perfect sense and there is no wondering involved. Having to find out that someone is not your friend anymore because they wanted their five minutes of fame to flame you, says a lot about that person’s character. Beth, you have no loyalty, and you are willing to backstab for your own glory. Can you really expect more from others?

Chris,
InmyHouse Drunkasfuck

[Betheny]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Maimara
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is your mind really that simple? If it is just say so and by all means I'll leave you alone.

[Betheny]

I have no loyalty? Using five minutes of fame to flame you? Bullshit.

You're here defending those asswipes, and that makes you one of them. You know I have no personal problem with you, or at least I didn't until I understood t hat you are just like they are. You admit to it, you flaunt it, and you just don't give a fuck.

Fine by me.

For the record, the 'people I surround myself with' are 300 times better than you are. There's a reason Dreadnaught was kept the fuck out of the Solhaven events where I was involved, and I guarantee you it wasn't because I bitched and moaned about it. It was because you all proved what drooling retards you really are.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Lyonis
You failed to ask if you are right there when an attack comes if you are allowed to defend your friend. My gut feeling would be to say yes it’s okay.

This was indeed addressed in a few ways.

~Agro says, "You cannot have a conflict with another player, and then without that player's agreement bring in another of your characters to attack them."

~Agro says, "Well, as it would be an agreement that counters our rules, it would need to be a very clear, preferably whispered, agreement."

Without doing another paste, he also stated that just waltzing in and entering the conflict is not acceptable. Meaning, if you are getting your ass handed to you, the goon-squad can't run in swinging. There has to be some verbage before hand and the receiving party has to accept in some form. If the goon-squad is warned or told it doesn't concern them, well then it doesn't concern them.

He also inferred that the receiving party pretty much accepts the conflict if they taunt and attempt to hide behind policy.

Likewise, the goon squad can't avenge a murder unless the murderer accepts the conflict as mentioned above. The victim has the right to retaliate... although he suggested just going to the constable.

She didn't fail to ask, you just didn't see it worded how you wanted it worded, nor did you see the answer you wanted.

In every scenario that involves a potential third party, there must be consent. You just can't jump in swinging. Consent via whispers, taunting, etc.

If you MA, you have to treat each character as a third party attempting to enter conflict.

[Lyonis]

(I was asked to post this for Sabreon/Sean in response to questions reagarding the House and policy violations.)

If I violate policy, then why haven’t I been warned by a GM? I get reported enough. It’s probably because it’s not a breach of policy. Just because they are all played by one player doesn't mean you can attack one in front of the others and expect no repercussions. If I attack someone in front of a group I’m sure the others won’t sit there quietly.

My character RPs a commander of a house against the Dark Alliance and in protection of the Elven Nations. So it makes sense that I do not like dark alliance members. I dont see why I should like them.

The basic view of the DA is "Sure I am a member of a group that has sacrificed players. invaded towns, killing many and holds the griffen sword thats about to start a war. But I wanna RP a evil character in peace I dont want to have people make me feel bad. And if you do anything back I will cry all day on the boards or to the Gms. (Like Maimara who had Sepher come to yell at me after I attacked her and she warned interacted me.) Doenst stop her from talking shit on the boards.

This seems to be the logic of those that oppose me:

Syberus is hired to kill me. (That’s ok according to the boards)
I kill him back (I was abusing the system)
Gallahan has Siafu his train 132 friend come to threaten me. (That’s ok, its his brother).
Maimara attacks my friend (with a group ambush its ok)
I go to talk to her and she casts first which results in her death(No no, wrong again).
Tamral talks about how my house is shit. (That’s fine)
Mistros asks him after he heard him saying it in game. (No no, your bringing in outside characters it doesn’t matter if he’s part of the same house)

Now to be completely honest I am going to keep RPing the way I do until I stop playing. I really don’t care if it’s liked or not. Believe it or not but I don’t play this game for the approval on the boards nor really care to much about the opinions of those who started shit in game then didn’t like it when I did something back. And I can promise that if I get killed in game I don’t come running to the boards or a GM because my mouth got me into more shit then I planned. If anyone wants to talk to me can email me at LordSabreon@hotmail.com I will talk to anyone about a problem directly but don’t expect me to bother writing a reply again.

Have a good night
High Lord Sabreon
or Sean.

[Caramia]

Originally posted by Lyonis
(I was asked to post this for Sabreon/Sean in response to questions reagarding the House and policy violations.)

If I violate policy, then why haven’t I been warned by a GM? I get reported enough. It’s probably because it’s not a breach of policy. Just because they are all played by one player doesn't mean you can attack one in front of the others and expect no repercussions. If I attack someone in front of a group I’m sure the others won’t sit there quietly.

I sure do hope some of the GMs that watch over player actions note this comment, and take a much keener interest in the Sabreon/Mistros/Kolts triplets.

And I hope everyone that finds he's using multiple characters in a conflict, to which they didn't consent, uses REPORT often.

[Betheny]

I go to talk to her and she casts first which results in her death(No no, wrong again).


I was hunting, you expect me not to hunt even if you walk in the room? I didn't even know you were there until you started singing song of noise and I couldn't cast at a raptor. Idiot.

[Silleck]

Lyonis why don't you reply to the post i made, when your house fucked with gallahan, then when siafu came along, you all became little bitches, also post how you attacked gallahan multiple times, before he did anything, then he killed you, THEN you brought in your bitches, lying to them so they would help you, not tleling them what actually happened.

[Betheny]

Oh, as for the Sepher thing, we were standing in the Cul du Sac when the Idiot Trio started harassing me. It wasn't like I IMed him and said 'go do this', he was standing right there when they started going off on a tangent. Perfectly IC, especially considering Maimara is his sister.

And I never broke the warn interact, I just pretended I was AFK. I didn't say jack shit to Sepher until later when he asked me why I didn't blast the idiots into kingdom come.

[Edited on 12-10-2003 by Maimara]

[Jolena]

Originally posted by Lyonis

Originally posted by Jolena
Hrrm...Still no response from Lyonis. Interesting.

Thank you Jolena for taking up your personal time for that lengthy question and answer session with a GM. It would appear that I have been mistaken about some of my views on policy. I said if I was wrong I would admit it and there it is. I do have a couple of questions though and maybe you could shed some light on them. You failed to ask if you are right there when an attack comes if you are allowed to defend your friend. My gut feeling would be to say yes it’s okay. The gamehost said it would be okay, but than again as it was pointed out to me, they are nothing more than glorified receptionists.

Why then if what my house does is so wrong is policy not enforced? I can only assume that maybe it’s the GM’s application of the standard that is not consistent. Either way I’m tired and I’m going to bed. Sorry it took so long to respond I thought the thread was dead long ago. I really would of thought that you would of expected more of me than to not respond simply because I was wrong.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

Actually no, I did not fail to do any of that Lyonis. I spoke to a GH first and gave her three situations, just as I told you I would in a previous post.

1) Joe schmo is in a conflict with Jolena and her two housemates/friends/family members are present and they enter the conflict based on witnessing it. Still the same answer came from the GM. Unless Jo Schmo consents to conflict with the other two folks there aside from myself then it is against policy.

2) Joe Schmo and myself get int o it and I lose. Later on my other housemates come after Jo based on RP. Same answer from the GM.

As you can see from the logs, the GM I spoke with was already aware of all the scenarios I presented to the GH and therefore did not require me to repeat it. If you like I spose I can dig out my logs to find the one of me speaking to the GH about the scenarios I gave her.

[Jolena]

Originally posted by Lyonis
(I was asked to post this for Sabreon/Sean in response to questions reagarding the House and policy violations.)

If I violate policy, then why haven’t I been warned by a GM? I get reported enough. It’s probably because it’s not a breach of policy. Just because they are all played by one player doesn't mean you can attack one in front of the others and expect no repercussions. If I attack someone in front of a group I’m sure the others won’t sit there quietly.

I fail to see why you won't acknowledge the GAMEHOST's direct response to a question regarding that. If you do NOT gain permission from the character you are attacking in front of said group and that group under your control or not attacks that character they are still in direct violation of a policy stated and will reap the consequences of said actions if reported. IMO

My character RPs a commander of a house against the Dark Alliance and in protection of the Elven Nations. So it makes sense that I do not like dark alliance members. I dont see why I should like them.


My character also roleplays a commander in a house against the Dark Alliance and in protection of the Elven Nations. In fact, we are based in the same damned meeting hall as your house is (much to my chagrin). However, that has no bearing I spose. What does have bearing however is that I don't see anywhere where any of us has said that you should not have a problem as a RP with a member of the Dark Alliance.

The basic view of the DA is "Sure I am a member of a group that has sacrificed players. invaded towns, killing many and holds the griffen sword thats about to start a war. But I wanna RP a evil character in peace I dont want to have people make me feel bad. And if you do anything back I will cry all day on the boards or to the Gms. (Like Maimara who had Sepher come to yell at me after I attacked her and she warned interacted me.) Doenst stop her from talking shit on the boards.

I have no comment on this as I didn't witness nor do I know what happened with that situation.


This seems to be the logic of those that oppose me:

Syberus is hired to kill me. (That’s ok according to the boards)

It IS okay according to policy and actually you responding to him by killing him later is also okay according to policy. What is not okay is you bringing in any other characters or members of your house that were not in direct conflict with Syberus by consent to fight him as well. And Repeatedly killing him for that action is also harrassment and goes beyond the RP and policy of the initial conflict.


Gallahan has Siafu his train 132 friend come to threaten me. (That’s ok, its his brother).
Maimara attacks my friend (with a group ambush its ok)
I go to talk to her and she casts first which results in her death(No no, wrong again).

Tamral talks about how my house is shit. (That’s fine)

Once again, if you read the policy that the GM gave me, insulting someone is indeed entering into a conflict and can escalate to a physical attack.

Mistros asks him after he heard him saying it in game. (No no, your bringing in outside characters it doesn’t matter if he’s part of the same house)

Now to be completely honest I am going to keep RPing the way I do until I stop playing. I really don’t care if it’s liked or not. Believe it or not but I don’t play this game for the approval on the boards nor really care to much about the opinions of those who started shit in game then didn’t like it when I did something back. And I can promise that if I get killed in game I don’t come running to the boards or a GM because my mouth got me into more shit then I planned. If anyone wants to talk to me can email me at LordSabreon@hotmail.com I will talk to anyone about a problem directly but don’t expect me to bother writing a reply again.

Have a good night
High Lord Sabreon
or Sean.

To that last part all I can say is well neener neener. Don't even try to comprehend that you are playing a multiple player roleplaying game that must be enjoyed by all who pay to play. Oh no.. please don't try to accept and understand that policy is there for a reason and that bringing in your other character to gang up on someone is not only abusing your power but also making it unenjoyable for others AND violating policy. Oh by all means.. keep doing what you want to and don't give a damn what others playing have to put up with. I surely hope that you never come into conflict with Jolena or any of my friends or family because they have all been warned as to how you choose to roleplay and know that if it goes into this type of situation with you (and honestly I hope to not have to interact wtih you or any of your zombies in any conflict) that they should report and continue reporting until something is done.

As for you Lyonis, I actually respect your loyalties to someone and your house. However, when that house is honestly nothing more than a bunch of bullies it does make me wonder about whether or not you honestly know what you have gotten yourself into or if you do and still choose to be loyal if you are not just as bad as they are and have fooled me. I do thank you for the apology however.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Maimara
Oh, as for the Sepher thing, we were standing in the Cul du Sac when the Idiot Trio started harassing me. It wasn't like I IMed him and said 'go do this', he was standing right there when they started going off on a tangent. Perfectly IC, especially considering Maimara is his sister.

And I never broke the warn interact, I just pretended I was AFK. I didn't say jack shit to Sepher until later when he asked me why I didn't blast the idiots into kingdom come.

[Edited on 12-10-2003 by Maimara]

Well I’m glad that Sepher being your brother is the IC end all for you justifying his reason for getting involved. Certainly our house didn’t mind.. I just love how the standard of consent only involves House Dreadnaught Maimara. Since we have IC reasons for defending our members then according to the same logic you used to justify Sepher’s involvement, you must think we’re right. Since I know you would never think that, I’m left with two categories for you. Either you’re a hypocrite or just too dumb to understand the fault in your logic.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Silleck
Lyonis why don't you reply to the post i made, when your house fucked with gallahan, then when siafu came along, you all became little bitches, also post how you attacked gallahan multiple times, before he did anything, then he killed you, THEN you brought in your bitches, lying to them so they would help you, not tleling them what actually happened.

I can only assume that this is the player of Sarcris, the sidekick that no one wanted. How fondly I remember the Siafu incident and you being asked by Siafu who the hell you were. Puts a smile on my face just thinking about it. Anyways, on to the issue at hand.

Gallahan, as admitted to you in a earlier post, purposely went to Vaalor to start a fight. In incidents completely unrelated to anything anyone in House Dreadnaught participated in, Gallahan repeatedly webbed and stunned House members along with the rest of the population unlucky enough to be in picker’s court. I witnessed some of this and immediately challenged Gallahan to a duel to defend those in my House even though by the strength of his CS I knew I was going to lose. Being the ranking member in Vaalor I felt this was my responsibility to at least lose with honor rather than show cowardice. The House immediately responded in force and Gallahan died numerous times for his crimes. Gallahan wanted to strut his 60 trains around a newbie town and got his little nuts stepped on.

As for Siafu, if I remember correctly the conversation ended with Siafu realizing his 130 trains weren’t going to mean a lot in a very short time and that it would be the wise decision to call a truce. I think Gallahan got tired with trading deed for deed with Dreadnaught, but he was a worthy adversary and part of my most enjoyable time in Gemstone. Regardless, if you really think that we’re soft you’re more than welcome to bring Siafu to Illistim and we’ll hand his ass to him as well.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Lyonis]

Jolena, you have been a most fair judge on these boards and I really believe that you have looked at this issue objectively. I am sorry that we don’t see eye to eye, but such is life. I don’t try to have fun at the expense of others unless they enjoy that type of play. All it would take is a simple whisper that this has gone out of hand and if the other party drops it so will I. This goes for you and for anyone else that reads this post, if you see me in game and I’m doing something you don’t like just whisper to me and I’ll go on my way. I understand that not everyone likes conflict like I do, but please understand that there are others that don’t like to play the game as you do. I think if we can all reach that understanding and try not to force our personal style on others, that we could easily coexist.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Jolena]

Actually Lyonis, that initial first part of my last post was directed at Sabreon mostly because he has the attitude to me that seems to be "Fuck you all, I can play how I want and I don't care how you are effected by it. Also fuck policy and the GM's." Now.. that is what I was addressing. The part that started "As for you Lyonis" was the only paragraph directed at you. I sincerely wish you the best Lyonis but again, if I am ever in a conflict with Sabreon or any of his zombies or your house and they bring in more than one person to attack without my consent (be it verbal or insulting etc.) then I will report and continue to do so because I find that behavior reprehensible.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Jolena
Actually Lyonis, that initial first part of my last post was directed at Sabreon mostly because he has the attitude to me that seems to be "Fuck you all, I can play how I want and I don't care how you are effected by it. Also fuck policy and the GM's." Now.. that is what I was addressing. The part that started "As for you Lyonis" was the only paragraph directed at you. I sincerely wish you the best Lyonis but again, if I am ever in a conflict with Sabreon or any of his zombies or your house and they bring in more than one person to attack without my consent (be it verbal or insulting etc.) then I will report and continue to do so because I find that behavior reprehensible.

As you should if anyone is ruining your gaming experience and you've done nothing to provoke it. I wish you the best as well.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Silleck]

Actually your wrong lyonis only reason siafu didnt recongize me was cause I never told him who i was, 2nd of all, your little house has NO one that can match siafu, so think of a new excuse

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Silleck
Actually your wrong lyonis only reason siafu didnt recongize me was cause I never told him who i was, 2nd of all, your little house has NO one that can match siafu, so think of a new excuse

Like I said, the sidekick no one wanted.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Silleck]

Right, If i came back, as my normal character, I could own you, and your house. So before you start talking know all the facts.

[Edited on 12-11-2003 by Silleck]

[Caramia]

Well I’m glad that Sepher being your brother is the IC end all for you justifying his reason for getting involved.

Lyonis, the difference between Sepher (who I think Beth said was present), and Maimara being in conflict together, IC reason or not, is at least she's mature, abides by policy, and doesn't have to bring along two of her other characters to make the cheat in the conflict.

You can interpret what Agro said any way you want to justify the actions of your House, but it's still wrong to bring them into fights without someone consenting with every participant, regardless of IC reason or not. Having a "House" or clan doesn't give you all blanket consent and coverage to gang up on people.

[Edited on 12-11-2003 by Caramia]

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Lyonis

Well I’m glad that Sepher being your brother is the IC end all for you justifying his reason for getting involved. Certainly our house didn’t mind.. I just love how the standard of consent only involves House Dreadnaught Maimara. Since we have IC reasons for defending our members then according to the same logic you used to justify Sepher’s involvement, you must think we’re right. Since I know you would never think that, I’m left with two categories for you. Either you’re a hypocrite or just too dumb to understand the fault in your logic.

Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

Anyone else think there's a fault in my logic? Or that I'm dumb?

[Myrianna]

Well, I don't see the fault in your logic, Maimara, but maybe I'm just that dumb too...

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Myrianna
Well, I don't see the fault in your logic, Maimara, but maybe I'm just that dumb too...

Must be contagious I guess.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Maimara

Originally posted by Myrianna
Well, I don't see the fault in your logic, Maimara, but maybe I'm just that dumb too...

Must be contagious I guess.

Apparantly it is. Maimara thinks its okay for her brother to intervene in her conflicts. Yet Maimara, and several others of you, don’t think it’s okay for my friends to get involved in each other’s conflicts. So like I said earlier, either your reasoning is false, or your just a hypocrite. Plainly obvious to anyone who understands anything about arguments. A quick break down of it follows below.

For purposes of this argument and it’s applications to the fantasy world of Gemstone, brother and friend will be considered synonymous since they can be created in a whim by anyone so inclined to do so.

For the case of Maimara and Sepher.

Maimara says it’s okay for her brother to get involved in her battles.

Brothers have an IC reason for defending their siblings, therefore they can get involved in their siblings battles.

Sepher is Maimara’s brother.

Therefore, it is okay for Sepher to get involved in Maimara’s battles.



(For the case of House Dreadnaught, according to Maimara)

Maimara says its okay for her brother to get involved in her battles.

Friends have an IC reason for defending their other friends, therefore can get involved in their friends battles.

Sabreon is friends with those in his House

Therefore, according to Maimara, it is not okay for friends to get involved in their friend’s battles

The two arguments have the exact same structure, yet according to Maimara and the couple of you that agreed, if you put in the same variables you get different answers. Textbook example of the moron in any logic course


Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Betheny]

Sepher was sitting right there when this happened and it was all RP'd out, thus, his involvement was okay, whereas you whining to your bitch-ass friends was not, since they had noting to do with any of the conflict that occurred.

[Caramia]

Lyonis, you keep ignoring the point that has been made time and time and time again. So I'll make it once more.

Sepher was there with Maimara and was invited into the conflict. It was RPed and consented.

Sabreon/Kolts/Mistros beating on Maimara was not.

Coming into a conflict where there:
1. Was no invitation extended
2. Was no consent asked or given
3. Wasn't a presence by all at the onset of the conflict (and then see steps 1 and 2 again)

is AGAINST POLICY. Period.

That's the difference between the situations. Beth's/Maimara's logic is not flawed, and you are the only one reading this thread that can't see that.

[Lyonis]

Originally posted by Caramia
Lyonis, you keep ignoring the point that has been made time and time and time again. So I'll make it once more.

Sepher was there with Maimara and was invited into the conflict. It was RPed and consented.

Sabreon/Kolts/Mistros beating on Maimara was not.

Coming into a conflict where there:
1. Was no invitation extended
2. Was no consent asked or given
3. Wasn't a presence by all at the onset of the conflict (and then see steps 1 and 2 again)

is AGAINST POLICY. Period.

That's the difference between the situations. Beth's/Maimara's logic is not flawed, and you are the only one reading this thread that can't see that.

Obviously I wasted a lot of time going the intellectual route with you two, since it’s way over your heads. Thanks to the wonderful posts by Jolena, and the helpful explanation of that post by Tsa ‘ah, I think I have a much better understanding of how policy works when multi accounting is concerned.

What your not getting here is that this last argument had nothing to do about policy. It was about Maimara trying to justify her friend’s involvement in her conflicts, yet adamantly opposing House Dreadnaught’s involvement in conflicts regarding those in our House. I’m going to put this is layman’s terms so maybe it’s a little easier for you to swallow. Maimara is under the impression that my shit stinks and hers smells like roses. I’ve agreed that my shit does stink. All I’ve been arguing is that Maimara’s stinks too.

Seriously though, don’t feel bad that your not getting this Caramia. In all the classes that I ever took on argument structure and logic there were always people that couldn’t get it. I never understood why, its logic it should all make sense right? You and Maimara just happen to be those people that are just slightly below the grading curve. Do I hate you for it? Not one bit! I actually want to help you. So if either of you are in the Los Angeles area and would like a logic tutor you can IM me and we’ll make arrangements. I have experiences working not only with fellow college students but have also tutored reading and writing to ESL(English as a Second Language) children, so I should be able to be your one stop logic super shop. As a former friend of mine, your first lesson is free Beth. Just to show how fair I am, your first one is free too Caramia. I would never want to be accused of applying a standard only in one situation because it suits my needs.


Lyonis,
House Dreadnaught

[Jolena]

Okay.. I have to say.. that was one of the best concealed and veiled sarcastic insults I have seen in a long time Lyonis. Although I don't necessarily agree with it..it was well done as far as concealing it with sarcasm.

Secondly, what I believe Caramia and Maimara are trying to say and I may be wrong..but what I feel they are saying is that in the situation with Sepher and Maimara.. that Sepher gained consent from your house members before entering the conflict whether that consent was verbally, physical or if they just insulted Sepher.. I do not know. But it did appear to me that they were using the consentual conflict as their argument with you. If that's the case and Sepher did in fact gain consent from your house members before entering the conflict in defense of his sister then it is not against policy. If your house members did not gain consent from Maimara either verbal, physical or perhaps the insulting route, before they attacked her then they are in violation of policy. Now..if that's not what you two meant, Maimara and Caramia, then correct me. But I got that from your posts and thought I would convey that to Lyonis since he seemed to be missing that from your arguments.

[Caramia]

That's EXACTLY what I meant, thank you. As for the consenting part, only Maimara can know for sure, but from what she has described here, she said the thing with Sepher was consented and RPed, while the thing with Sabreon/Mistros/Kolts was NOT.