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Gan
08-13-2007, 09:12 AM
Armed With Checkbooks and Excuses, First Casualties of Va. Fees Go to Court


The labor pains were coming, so Jessica Hodges got going. The 26-year-old bank teller from Burke sped toward Inova Fairfax Hospital, but before she got there, the law got her -- 57 mph in a 35 zone. Reckless driving.
Hodges's labor pains subsided -- they turned out to be a false alarm -- but the agony from her ticket is mounting. She was found guilty of the July 3 offense and given a $1,050 civil fee on top of a judge-imposed $100 fine and court costs, making her one of the first to be hit with Virginia (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Virginia?tid=informline)'s new "abusive driver fees," which have been greeted by widespread public outrage.

"It's crazy," said an unregretful Hodges. "Having a baby's more important. Of course I'm going to speed."

Anger and exasperation have been common sentiments recently in Fairfax General District Court, where fee-facing drivers such as Hodges have started to join the daily swarm of traffic offenders. After waiting hours to give their side of the story to judges -- several of whom seemed just as annoyed with the fees as defendants -- many nevertheless left owing enormous sums that they said would be difficult to pay.

Those lucky enough to live out of state or to have been pulled over before the fees went into effect July 1 -- the "magic date," as one judge called it -- escaped the penalties, as did many who hired attorneys who were able to argue for lesser charges or continuances.

The fees, which range from $750 to $3,000, were passed by the General Assembly in the spring as part of a package aimed at funding scores of transportation projects. Backers said the fees would both raise money and improve highway safety by targeting the state's worst drivers -- those guilty of severe traffic offenses such as DUI, reckless driving and driving on a suspended license.

But the fees have since been vilified by an angry public (more than 170,000 people have signed an online petition to repeal them), denounced by lawmakers who once supported them and ruled unconstitutional by judges in two localities who said they violate equal protection rights guaranteed under the 14th Amendment. A Centreville (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Centreville?tid=informline) man convicted of reckless driving filed a challenge to the fees in Arlington County (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Arlington+County?tid=informline) General District Court on the same grounds.

Nonetheless, the penalties remain in effect, and offenders have started to feel their pinch. Melissa Norquest, 33, of Manassas (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Manassas?tid=informline) shelled out $522 Tuesday after being found guilty of reckless driving for going 56 mph in a 35 mph zone July 3. She will pay the rest in installments.

Norquest took issue with a provision that exempts out-of-state drivers from paying the fees. If you don't live in Virginia, she said, "you just pay your l'il $100 fine and go on your way. . . . If they're going to make it for Virginia residents, they should also make it for whoever drives through Virginia or get rid of it completely. I mean, you want the whole state to be safe, right?"

Norquest, who works for Fairfax County (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Fairfax+County?tid=informline) Family Services, also said she did not see the point of hiring a lawyer at a cost of hundreds or thousands of dollars. "You're either paying for one or you're paying for the other," she said.

Defendants weren't the only ones grousing about the penalties.
"Quite frankly, these are going to be a major burden on the clerk's office," Judge Michael J. Cassidy said Monday while explaining the fees during his opening remarks to the crowded courtroom. "I realize that these might be a financial burden. . . . It was not the clerk's choice to impose these fees."

Bob Battle, a Richmond (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Richmond?tid=informline) attorney who was in Fairfax (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Fairfax?tid=informline) traffic court Tuesday, said disapproval among judges is widespread.

"Judges, like other people, don't like them," he said. "Two have made it loud and clear, but so many of them out there are convinced that [the fees are] unconstitutional."

Battle said he thinks the fees are excessive. It's "sort of a kick-them-while-they're-down mentality," he said. "I think people who were charged with reckless driving, speeding or DUI were crazy not to have a lawyer before.. . . With a DUI defendant, you mean the potential year in jail, a $2,500 fine, at best a restricted license, the classes they have to go to, insurance wasn't a sufficient punishment?"

Because post-July 1 defendants make up only a small fraction of the caseload, it's too soon to determine what effect, if any, they will have on the judicial system, said Nancy Lake, Fairfax General District Court clerk. "I think it might have an effect in September, when most of the docket are these types of cases," she said.

Kathryn Bogush, 37, of Centreville caught a break in her case from a judge who amended her charge because she has a good driving record.

"Your [offense is] after that magic date of July 1," Judge Lisa A. Mayne said to Bogush, who was facing a reckless driving charge for going 80 mph in a 55 mph zone. "On the other hand, you have a plus-five driving record. I will take that into account."

Minutes later, a smiling Bogush was headed to the cashier after her charge was lowered to simple speeding, thereby avoiding the civil fee. "I was thankful she changed it," Bogush said.

Not everyone was so lucky. Upon hearing that he would have to pay the first $350 of his civil fee after being convicted of reckless driving, Samuel Ortez, 34, of Woodbridge (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Woodbridge+(Virginia)?tid=informline), a truck driver and father of two from El Salvador (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/El+Salvador?tid=informline), stared blankly for a moment outside the cashier's office, his eyes watering slightly.

"It's going to affect the bills," he said quietly in Spanish, his nephew Leo Ortez interpreting.

People who are unable to pay the first installment the day of their conviction are charged an additional $10 and are given 90 days to six months to pay, depending on the amount of the fee, Lake said.

Some, like Hodges, thought they had a legitimate excuse for speeding and would be able to get the charge lowered.

But when it came time to testify, Hodges said she felt rushed and couldn't adequately explain her situation to the judge, who found her guilty.
She said that she plans to appeal the decision.

She and her husband, Jeff, a massage therapist, barely go out and are living basically week-to-week to support 17-month-old Madison (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Madison?tid=informline) and infant Alessandra, born July 19, she said.

If the appeal is denied, her husband will probably have to work overtime, she said, but she's hoping a second judge will dismiss her case because of the circumstances.

"I'm getting out of here," Hodges said, "before I have to pay for any new roads."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/11/AR2007081101352_pf.html
_______________________________________________

I really cant make much sense out of this new 'abusive driver fee'. Other than its arbitrarily imposed (at least thats my read on it) by judges.

I dont see this standing up to the appeals. And its a really stupid move for the state politicians, especially since they let the out of state drivers be immune to it. DOH!

I bolded a few things I thought were interesting, and underlined the last bold as probably a very serious side effect of the measure.
var comments_url = "http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/11/AR2007081101352_Comments.html" ;var article_id = "AR2007081101352" ;

CrystalTears
08-13-2007, 09:17 AM
DMV fees in VA in general are hideous. There are a lot of things that don't make sense there, but then, we're talking about DMV. They suck on general principle.

Convictions-Related Fees

Drivers convicted of serious traffic offenses will be charged conviction-related abusive driver fees. These fees do not apply to the typical traffic violation such as failure to yield, or parking too near a fire hydrant, for example. Abusive driver fees will only apply when the person is convicted of reckless driving, driving on a suspended or revoked license, driving under the influence, or other serious traffic offenses that occur after July 1, 2007. The fees are based on the following schedule:

Driving on a suspended or revoked license - $250 each year for three years;
Reckless or aggressive driving - $350 each year for three years;
Driving while intoxicated - $750 each year for three years;
Other misdemeanor convictions for driving and/or motor vehicle-related offense -$300 each year for three years;
Any felony conviction for driving or motor vehicle-related offense - $1000 each year for three years.

Trouble
08-13-2007, 09:52 AM
As someone who lived in FFX county for around 28 years and NoVA in general for over 30, I support the fees. People here drive like fucking idiots. I see people speeding everywhere, never using turn signals, cutting people off, driving on shoulders, running lights and stop signs, cutting to the front of an exit/merge line then cutting in, etc, etc.

Burn em all in Hell and charge them for the incineration IMO.

PS. outlawing cell phones would help a lot too; people just don't concentrate on operating the 3-10,000 pounds of mixed metals and fuel they're sitting in while yakking on the phone. Handsfree doesn't help either.

FinisWolf
08-13-2007, 10:07 AM
I feel the fees are idiotic after reading what Gan shared; however, I am, and have been of the opinion that anyone convicted of a DUI (the first time) should be placed in state prison for a year. No Exceptions.

While the rest of the traffic offenders may be dangerous, I see NO reason what-so-ever to drive while intoxicated.

Just my opinion, and I find in general, those that oppose my DUI opinion tend to be individuals that tend to drive while intoxicated.

Finis

Tsa`ah
08-13-2007, 10:15 AM
Heh ... simple solutions to all of this.

Don't speed.
Obey the traffic signs.
Don't drink and drive.
Turn off the cell phone.
Don't be an idiot.
If it's a medical emergency ... call an ambulance.

I feel no sympathy for anyone complaining about additional fees unless the ticket was bullshit to begin with.

FinisWolf
08-13-2007, 10:45 AM
Heh ... simple solutions to all of this.

Don't speed.
Obey the traffic signs.
Don't drink and drive.
Turn off the cell phone.
Don't be an idiot.
If it's a medical emergency ... call an ambulance.

I feel no sympathy for anyone complaining about additional fees unless the ticket was bullshit to begin with.

I agree with ...

...

... some of that.

It's not the fines that they are complaining about, it's the fines that now have their own fines basically. E.G. in California, you commit a burglary you get X years, but you do that same crime with mention to a gun you get X years + y1 years, you do the burglary and point the gun you get X years + y2 years, you do the burglary and fire the gun you get X years + y3 years, do that same burglary fire the gun/hold the gun/make comment of a gun and call any race except for white a slur and you get x years + y1/y2/y3 years + z years.

They are enhancives as California likes to call them. I likely do not have the exact particulars correct, but the general idea holds.

Anyway, I don't think are getting upset because they broke a law and now have to deal with the punishment, I think it's this extreme punishment that they are having a problem with. - If I speed, I expect a ticket, if I don't fully stop at a stop sign, I expect a ticket (of course it doesn't help that asshat behind me is honking if I do make a full stop).

:shrug:

Finis

Meges
08-13-2007, 10:50 AM
As a "safe driver" I agree with it, at least until something similar arrives in my state as well and I get convicted and charged civil fees. At that point, I'm sure I'll change my mind about it. Driving does seem to be out of control regardless of location. I know it's out of control all up and down the east coast. It was most definitely out of control in CA. I lived there for four years from 1991 to 1995.


Meges

Tsa`ah
08-13-2007, 11:00 AM
This is how I see it (the reasoning behind the additional fees that is) ... and it is summed up with this quote ..


Norquest, who works for Fairfax County Family Services, also said she did not see the point of hiring a lawyer at a cost of hundreds or thousands of dollars. "You're either paying for one or you're paying for the other," she said.

While I can see why people are getting up in arms over additional fees ... it's really simple not to be a victim to them. Someone bitching about paying 600 bucks for driving highway speeds in a 35mph residential zone ... FUCK YOU ... you should be happy you're still driving instead of the judge ordering his bailiff to shove every inch of your car up your ass while preparing a DL slaw for roughage so you can pass it back out later.

There are instances where maybe someone shouldn't have received a ticket ... maybe a reduction in the speed zone that is pretty sudden or the sign obscured. Maybe someone over corrected a turn and crossed lanes, but no harm no foul ... shit like that. Someone completely disregarding the speed limit, felt the need to have a few brews before heading home after work .. sorry, but I think the law coddles stupidity enough. They may as well make the penalty so stiff that you'll say "fuck my lawyer and his fucking BMW, I'll just pay it before the fee gets bigger."

FinisWolf
08-13-2007, 11:21 AM
I again agree with most of what you are saying.

You did bring to mind the (highway speeds in residential zones) our neighborhoods.

Two places that really stand out are the two deadend roads (maybe from the time you turned onto the road till the end was a whole 300 feet) we lived on, and yet somehow people would get up to 30 to 40 mph just to slam on their brakes with kids running all around (not just ours, we lived in areas with high numbers of children).

That would piss me off to no end.

And, I still feel that if you are legally intoxicated, PRISON (not jail) is the right place for you. Most folks that stop off for a beer or two after work usually take a half hour to an hour and are therefore not legally drunk upon departure unless they weigh the same as this paragraph.

Finis

Sean
08-13-2007, 11:23 AM
I'd rather pay some schmucky lawyer than a lame ass fine.

Jessaril
08-13-2007, 11:30 AM
There would probably be alot less speeders or reckless drivers if they sat back and actually thought about how little time going 50 in a 35 is really saving them. If people think they are so important that they can't give up a few minutes and obey the traffic laws, I would question their sanity.

I'm all for increasing the cost of speeding tickets, frankly though the one that I think should be looked at is driving without insurance. I'm taking mandatory jail time, not some insignificant fine.

FinisWolf
08-13-2007, 01:05 PM
Jessaril, curious where you stand on DUI's then. If no insurance == mandatory jail time that is.

Finis

Warriorbird
08-13-2007, 01:23 PM
I've been aware of these for a bit, having stayed with my folks in VA pre law school. The issue is not so much the fines ($750 for 10 over is ridiculous though) but the fact that they're only for state residents. Out of state people pay the old fines. Part of this has already been challenged constitutionally, however, so hopefully that part will at least be struck down.

CrystalTears
08-13-2007, 01:39 PM
Perhaps because VA residents should know the rules and policies in order to get their license with the state, as opposed to someone passing through. Just my guess though.

Skeeter
08-13-2007, 02:25 PM
Ignorance of the law is no excuse!

Jessaril
08-13-2007, 02:29 PM
Jessaril, curious where you stand on DUI's then. If no insurance == mandatory jail time that is.

Finis

It depends on the situation, just like now. If someone is drunk and ends up causing a major accident then jail time. If it's joe and he goes out with his friends and is slightly over the limit the fine should be stiff but not necessarily result in jail time.

The problem I have with uninsured motorists is it puts the burden back on the other drivers. Sure you have uninsured motorist policies, but it still ends up hurting everyone that pays for insurance through increasing premiums.

Valthissa
08-13-2007, 06:10 PM
Politically, this was stupid.

The fees only apply to Virginians and the state has projected that the net in fees will be less than 60 million dollars. In a state were we run a surplus. I agree with the sentiment that the way to avoid the fees are to not break the laws, but there are certain charges, like "aggressive driving" that are ripe for misuse by zealous policeman and prosecutors.

Coupled with the creation of un-elected transportation taxing authorities, our state legislators have hit what may be an all-time low.

C/Valth

Soulpieced
08-13-2007, 06:12 PM
50 means 50.

Gan
08-13-2007, 06:29 PM
It depends on the situation, just like now. If someone is drunk and ends up causing a major accident then jail time. If it's joe and he goes out with his friends and is slightly over the limit the fine should be stiff but not necessarily result in jail time.
So the formulae (based on your concept) for this is:

1. Drink + Drive + no accident = No jail time, just a fine and a slap on the wrist.

2. Drink + Drive + accident = Jail time.

3. Drive + no insurance + no accident = Jail time.

4. Drive + no insurance + accident = Jail time.

:wtf:


The problem I have with uninsured motorists is it puts the burden back on the other drivers. Sure you have uninsured motorist policies, but it still ends up hurting everyone that pays for insurance through increasing premiums.
If and only if they cause an accident. Much the same burden as a drunk driver only putting a burden back on other drivers if and only if they have an accident.

At least be consistent.

DeV
08-13-2007, 06:36 PM
My views on this are mixed. As it stands, legislation does discriminate between Virginian drivers and out of state drivers. It makes no sense that these fines only apply to citizens of Virginia. Whatever happened to equal protection under the law. Not to mention there are two separate fines, allowing one to be paid over time in installments because the average Joe isn't going to be able to afford the fees outright.

However, most of these fines are for serious offenses and that's not really debatable. It's pretty easy to not break the law while driving. It may well serve to improve the driving conditions on the roads and cause people to display more tact when it comes to their own well-being and other drivers they share the road with.

My only issue with it is the fact that I can come from out of state and break the speeding laws in VA, yet reap completely different repercussions than someone living in the state. So Not cool.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1880.asp#more

Ignot
08-13-2007, 08:36 PM
When that mother giving birth driving down the road at 55mph strikes your car killing your wife sitting next to you and your two kids in the back then maybe you'll think twice about an increase in fees.

The article really doesn't say how she was driving other then aggressively. As a safe drive, i like the fee. People drive absolutely nuts! From people in Miami cutting you off and running lights (with no insurance!) to people here in J-Ville who are speeding for no damn reason and they don't even know where they are going. These are they only two places I have lived and I would welcome a change like this to help try and keep some people under control.

Jail time for no insurance!! I agree but then again I have insurance.

FinisWolf
08-13-2007, 08:38 PM
It depends on the situation, just like now. If someone is drunk and ends up causing a major accident then jail time. If it's joe and he goes out with his friends and is slightly over the limit the fine should be stiff but not necessarily result in jail time.

The problem I have with uninsured motorists is it puts the burden back on the other drivers. Sure you have uninsured motorist policies, but it still ends up hurting everyone that pays for insurance through increasing premiums.

Seems to me that a drive that is intoxicated lands back on everyone else as well. Not to mention their family and friends in the worse case scenario's.

And where it *sounds* like you are saying money is more important then life itself befuddles my mind. When I am saying this I am referring to cause and effect in that worse case scenario. At most with an uninsured motorist you are looking at higher premiums (excluding death of course), while with a driver that is DUI you could be looking at a whole family dead.

To me there should be no tolerance for a drunk driver. There should also be no tolerance for an uninsured motorist, but the driver that is DUI, no slack should be permitted.

You could say that MADD had a big impact on me. I attended one of their meetings where a lady joined us that had been on the back of her husbands motorcycle. Her husband is now dead, she sits in a wheelchair, and before the drunk driver got to her, he killed a family of six that was in a station wagon. His punishment for seven dead, and one maimed? DUI school, and three months in jail.

Anyway, enough blah blah blahing.

Finis

FinisWolf
08-13-2007, 08:42 PM
On the other note of mention, I agree with Dev, and to quote Gan, "Be consistent."

Finis

Latrinsorm
08-13-2007, 08:43 PM
Has anyone here driven a car while in labor? What's that like?

FinisWolf
08-13-2007, 08:52 PM
Possibly like having your balls in a vise with slow then quick tightening action.

Finis

Artha
08-14-2007, 12:20 AM
As a Virginia driver, fuck this shit and fuck people who like it.

Sean of the Thread
08-14-2007, 12:32 AM
No wonder Virginians have so much trouble getting to the dentist.

Jessaril
08-14-2007, 01:10 AM
Seems to me that a drive that is intoxicated lands back on everyone else as well. Not to mention their family and friends in the worse case scenario's.

And where it *sounds* like you are saying money is more important then life itself befuddles my mind. When I am saying this I am referring to cause and effect in that worse case scenario. At most with an uninsured motorist you are looking at higher premiums (excluding death of course), while with a driver that is DUI you could be looking at a whole family dead.

To me there should be no tolerance for a drunk driver. There should also be no tolerance for an uninsured motorist, but the driver that is DUI, no slack should be permitted.

You could say that MADD had a big impact on me. I attended one of their meetings where a lady joined us that had been on the back of her husbands motorcycle. Her husband is now dead, she sits in a wheelchair, and before the drunk driver got to her, he killed a family of six that was in a station wagon. His punishment for seven dead, and one maimed? DUI school, and three months in jail.

Anyway, enough blah blah blahing.

Finis

Difference is it's not illegal to drink and drive, it's illegal to drive while your blood alcohol level is over the legal limit or the police think you're impaired. It is always illegal to drive without insurance. You can't necessarily impose a stiff penalty for something subjective like "impaired". If it just went off straight blood alcohol level it would be a different story, but that poses it's own issues.

Gelston
08-14-2007, 02:21 AM
Umm.. It is illegal to drink and drive. Open container laws anyone? Unless you mean to drink then drive, which depends on how much you drink. Driving without insurance and going to jail though? Thats a little extreme. I could see getting a hefty fine and perhaps having your car impounded.

Sweets
08-14-2007, 08:44 AM
I can't believe the woman tried to drive with labour pains. Stupidity should pay through the nose. She's lucky she's alive. If I had a choice between speeding down the road while VERY distracted or dialing 911....Hmmmm let me think.

I also love the quote "I'm getting out of here before I have to pay for new roads." Who the hell do you think should pay for new roads?

Everyone wants something for nothing. NO MORE TAXES! I don't want to have to pay for my lovely life! Damn the military for taking all the tax payers money! I want it all! I want it now! And I want it FREE of charge!

Keller
08-14-2007, 09:04 AM
cutting to the front of an exit/merge line then cutting in.

I do this daily. I really love the people who yell at me for it. I just smile, wave, and keep driving.

Gan
08-14-2007, 09:07 AM
I also love the quote "I'm getting out of here before I have to pay for new roads." Who the hell do you think should pay for new roads?

Everyone wants something for nothing. NO MORE TAXES! I don't want to have to pay for my lovely life! Damn the military for taking all the tax payers money! I want it all! I want it now! And I want it FREE of charge!

You pay for roadways already through gas tax, federal income tax, state income tax, and of course toll tax. And of course you pay as well through fines assessed through violation of traffic laws.

The real question is whether or not the burden is undue, unjust, unfair, or whether its a legal cause and effect.

There should be no excuse now for any road disrepair or potholes in VA eh?

Alfster
08-14-2007, 09:09 AM
I'm not necessarily a fan of drunk driving, but I also can't say I don't do it. Heh.

But, I am a fan of different levels of fines for drunk driving. I don't think someone who blows a .09 should get the same fine and jail time as someone who blows a .18 or a .25

Just my opinion though.

Trouble
08-14-2007, 09:38 AM
I do this daily. I really love the people who yell at me for it. I just smile, wave, and keep driving.

I have two problems with this habit, one is that it's not fair to the people who did the right thing by waiting in line, and the other (which affects me more) is that it slows/blocks traffic in the non-exit lane that people like you slow down/stop dead in to cut over.

A perfect example is the 66/267 East to beltway merge.... they have THREE exit lanes for the people headed onto the Beltway, yet people (Marylanders actually) use one of the straight/non-exiting lanes to cut to the front of the line and stop while trying to cut in. So now people continuing on to I-66 are compressed to the 1-2 lanes on the far left, instead of the 3 lanes they should have. It doesn't help that people drive 65-70 past the stopped cars either (55 zone). It's just asking for a major accident.

Xandalf
08-14-2007, 09:52 AM
I don't often post in these political threads because I have strong views (like most of you)..but I prefer to avoid getting sucked any futher into these forums.

That being said, Thanks Gan and others who post these types of stories. I'd never read about them on the sites I frequent.

Gan
08-14-2007, 10:27 AM
I don't often post in these political threads because I have strong views (like most of you)..but I prefer to avoid getting sucked any futher into these forums.

That being said, Thanks Gan and others who post these types of stories. I'd never read about them on the sites I frequent.

:)

FinisWolf
08-14-2007, 10:34 AM
Umm.. It is illegal to drink and drive. Open container laws anyone? Unless you mean to drink then drive, which depends on how much you drink. Driving without insurance and going to jail though? Thats a little extreme. I could see getting a hefty fine and perhaps having your car impounded.

In California, no insurance does == impounded car. Same with no valid license.

Finis

Gan
08-14-2007, 10:37 AM
In California, no insurance does == impounded car. Same with no valid license.

Finis

Damn, and I thought Texas was harsh...

FinisWolf
08-14-2007, 10:39 AM
I was talking to my Fiancée yesterday and she came up with a more tasteful idea regarding these traffic fines.

If these fines are for abusive drivers, then don't stiff the first time caught driver. Use a tiered system. To me abusive is the second, third, etcetera driving violation that an individual receives. Not the first time offender.

Just a thought, my Fiancé's, and I liked it.

Finis

Tea & Strumpets
08-14-2007, 10:49 AM
I do this daily. I really love the people who yell at me for it. I just smile, wave, and keep driving.

A lot of people have balls of steel in their 2 ton vehicle with the doors locked.

:D

Latrinsorm
08-14-2007, 11:03 AM
Who the hell do you think should pay for new roads?The implication appeared to be "everyone who drives [inappropriately] on them, regardless of home state".

grapedog
08-14-2007, 12:04 PM
from the outside looking in, I'm okay with those laws(I live in NC). Follow the driving guidelines and you'll be ok. I'm not sure I understand where the disconnect is...

The laws haven't changed, only the penalty for breaking those laws. Follow the law...wow...tough concept.

Artha
08-14-2007, 02:05 PM
Follow the driving guidelines and you'll be ok.
The driving guidelines are retarded.

In Virginia, if you're going 20 over anywhere it's reckless driving. This includes the interstate and parts of the road that simply have unnecessarily low speed limits (speed traps where it goes from 55 to 35, for example). On I-95, even where the speed limit's 55 you're going to get shot if you go anywhere near that, and to pass people you're going to have to be going at least 75. And the aforementioned speed traps.

Besides, if I'm going 85 and the dude beside me is going 85, and the cop behind us is going to pull one of us over, who's he going to get, the driver that's going to bring in $150 or the driver that's going to bring in $3300? That's kind of a ridiculous penalty to pay for living in the state.


Follow the law
I promise you that you break the law dozens of time every day and don't think twice about it.

Gan
08-14-2007, 02:11 PM
The driving guidelines are retarded.

In Virginia, if you're going 20 over anywhere it's reckless driving. This includes the interstate and parts of the road that simply have unnecessarily low speed limits (speed traps where it goes from 55 to 35, for example). On I-95, even where the speed limit's 55 you're going to get shot if you go anywhere near that, and to pass people you're going to have to be going at least 75. And the aforementioned speed traps.

Besides, if I'm going 85 and the dude beside me is going 85, and the cop behind us is going to pull one of us over, who's he going to get, the driver that's going to bring in $150 or the driver that's going to bring in $3300? That's kind of a ridiculous penalty to pay for living in the state.


I promise you that you break the law dozens of time every day and don't think twice about it.

Your out-of-state 85 mph neighbor is called a doughnut.

Your'e an in-state 85 mph speeder, therefore you're a jelly filled doughnut.

The radar officer is going after the jelly EVERY TIME. (Providing he doesnt pull along side of both of you and motion for both to hit the curb.) Its not uncommon to see two pulled over. It gets challenging after 3.

Artha
08-14-2007, 02:20 PM
The radar officer is going after the jelly EVERY TIME.
Which is why this law violates the 14th amendment and needs to go.

Tsa`ah
08-14-2007, 08:23 PM
In California, no insurance does == impounded car. Same with no valid license.

Finis

In IL it depends on your record. If you have one prior, they'll write you another ticket and direct you in the direction of home. Two or more they're hauling you in (because you likely have a suspended license at that point) and impounding your car.

Unless you're an illegal alien, then they bid you a good day (the local cops anyway ... state and county will be vicious).

FinisWolf
08-14-2007, 09:09 PM
Tsa`ah - your sig link is broken.

Finis

Tsa`ah
08-14-2007, 09:43 PM
I didn't break it.

CrystalTears
08-15-2007, 08:28 AM
It's been broken for months. Just delete it, sugarplum.