Norway and taxes

[Gan]

Norwegians are among the most heavily taxed people in the world, and that in turn has made Norway one of the most expensive countries in which to live. Most accept the taxes they're ordered to pay on income and even net worth and property, but growing numbers are publicly complaining about sky-high taxes on everything from cars to fuel to consumer goods.

Norwegians differentiate between skatter (taxes) and avgifter (duties, fees or user taxes) and the latter is the most hated. They're what causes a glass of house wine at an Oslo restaurant to cost the equivalent of nearly USD 16, or a gallon of gas to cost nearly USD 9 at current exchange rates.

"It's clear that taxes are much too high in oil-rich Norway," Oslo resident Gro Pettersen told newspaper Aftenposten. "It's sick!"

The taxes placed on new cars, which can more than double the price of the car itself, are another bone of contention, even though most Norwegians support measures to protect the environment. "The car tax is much too high, but so are most all the other avgifter also," said Ernst Bendiksen of the northern city of Vadsø, where Norwegians are far more dependent on their cars than those living in cities with good public transit systems. "We certainly don't get anything in return for them."

A study conducted by research firm MMI for the Norwegian Tax Payers Association (Skattebetalerforeningen) (http://www.skattebetalerforeningen.no/english/) showed that the most hated taxes are those on new cars and a transfer tax levied when real estate changes hands. The so-called dokumentavgift on real estate transactions, which implies that it's meant to cover the costs of property registration, costs homebuyers around 2.5 percent of the purchase price.

Three of four Norwegians believe that's too high, according to the MMI study, and absolutely no one believed it was too low. With even a modest flat in Oslo costing a few million kroner these days, the tax amounts to a fair bit of change.

Regressive inequality
The study also showed that 67 percent of the population think Norway's inheritance taxes are too high, while 63 percent think fuel taxes are too high. Norway's hefty 25 percent VAT (like a sales tax) on nearly all consumer items is considered too high by 53 percent of the population.

Only 32 percent, meanwhile, believed tobacco taxes are too high, while 44 percent believed liquor taxes are too high.

The user taxes, or avgifter, are also unpopular because they're largely regressive taxes that hit people with low incomes much harder than those with high incomes. Filling the car's gas tank, and paying the taxes that requires, is much more expensive for someone earning NOK 300,000 than it is for a car owner earning NOK 900,000.

The head of the tax payers' association, Jon Stordrange, said he thinks user taxes should be adjusted to reflect actual costs inflicted on society. "Then I think people would have more respect for the system," he said.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece
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And I thought our tax system sucked. UGH.

[Apotheosis]

Saw this article yesterday, thought it was kinda neat given the tax thread we have going.

[Gan]

But Norway is such a great example of socialism...

[Latrinsorm]

People think taxes are too high???????? That's a first!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why did repeated punctuation for the purposes of indicating sarcasm ever go out of vogue? It's way more illustrative than slanty letters.

Wouldn't a thorough analysis include whatever benefits the Norsemen get that we don't?

[Clove]

But Norway is such a great example of socialism...

I've actually been chatting with a Norwegian family for the past five or six years and that article is no lie according to my friends Peter and Liss. To say I'm horrified at times when they describe their taxes and duties would be an understatement.

On the flip side they're horrified when I describe how much time I put at work, "That would be illegal here." - Liss. Or how much medical costs are for my family.

To be fair, from what I can tell, Norway really does have a nice socialist system going- but it costs. It costs everyone in Norway a huge portion of their income- and if we can go by that article (and what my friends tell me) Norwegians aren't entirely thrilled by that fact.

[Gan]

People think taxes are too high???????? That's a first!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why did repeated punctuation for the purposes of indicating sarcasm ever go out of vogue? It's way more illustrative than slanty letters.

Wouldn't a thorough analysis include whatever benefits the Norsemen get that we don't?

Feel free to expound. A nice apples to apples comparison if you would...

[Parkbandit]

I've actually been chatting with a Norwegian family for the past five or six years and that article is no lie according to my friends Peter and Liss. To say I'm horrified at times when they describe their taxes and duties would be an understatement.

On the flip side they're horrified when I describe how much time I put at work, "That would be illegal here." - Liss. Or how much medical costs are for my family.

To be fair, from what I can tell, Norway really does have a nice socialist system going- but it costs. It costs everyone in Norway a huge portion of their income- and if we can go by that article (and what my friends tell me) Norwegians aren't entirely thrilled by that fact.

The great part about Norway is.. if you like living under heavy taxes and huge government, then feel free to move there. Every society has it's good points and it's bad points... so seriously.. what is keeping you in the US if Norway is the place you feel is the epitome of good living? If I felt that way, I would be on the next boat there.

The US isn't perfect, but it's the greatest country on the planet in my opinion. If you don't agree, what is seriously keeping you here?

[Clove]

Feel free to expound. A nice apples to apples comparison if you would...

Norway does have a very high standard of living, very low unemployment, high productivity, low spread between wages (from janitor to CEO) etc. etc. etc.

It's also the third largest oil exporter in the world with something like 90% of the oil industry nationalized. Since Norway has a huge, nationalized oil reserve and a very low population (approx. 4.5 million) combined with sharp economic management (their oil-profit based Government Pension Fund is expected to reach near a trillion USD in the next decade) and incredibly high taxes they're able to provide a pretty excellent standard of living for every citizen.

But they also have a high cost of living (approximately 25% HIGHER than the US) largely due to the staggering taxes and duties.

I don't see the US following the Norwegian way unless we nationalize all our professional services (we have LOTS of those) so get ready for Federal Service E! We are not a nation with a small population sitting on a massive, highly-valuable, natural resource reserve.

[Clove]

The great part about Norway is.. if you like living under heavy taxes and huge government, then feel free to move there. Every society has it's good points and it's bad points... so seriously.. what is keeping you in the US if Norway is the place you feel is the epitome of good living? If I felt that way, I would be on the next boat there.

The US isn't perfect, but it's the greatest country on the planet in my opinion. If you don't agree, what is seriously keeping you here?

I'll tell you what's keeping me here, PB. One word. Miami :P

Seriously, Norway is a nice place to live if you like snow, and you don't mind having no disposable income. But only because of fortunate circumstances that were handled well. As for me I'll take the good old USA, imperfections and all; but that doesn't mean I won't give credit where credit is due. The Norwegians have a nice little country- and NYC is a million times more fun!

[Gan]

I think I can agree that Norway's success is mostly attributed to its low population. I cant see a system as what you described working on a larger scale though, with the same degree of success as Norway has.

[Tolwynn]

They've also got some very interesting stances on immigration/citizenship that would probably make most of the liberals among you cry.

http://www.udi.no/templates/Tema.aspx?id=7394

Among the highlights? No criminals wanted, and learn Norwegian or Saami or GTFO.

[Clove]

I think I can agree that Norway's success is mostly attributed to its low population. I cant see a system as what you described working on a larger scale though, with the same degree of success as Norway has.

Not even if we owned 90% of the world's diamonds soaked in 90% of the world's oil and dusted with 90% of the world's cocaine.

Low-population+Massive oil reserve+Smart financial planning=Winter Wonderland. But you aren't going to duplicate it in a nation of 300 million.

[Latrinsorm]

Feel free to expound. A nice apples to apples comparison if you would...Well for one thing, slanty letters are marginally more difficult to read, and...

Oh, about Norway? I was just wondering what they got for their significantly higher taxes, as this was the first I'd heard about them paying wicked more. It just seemed rather silly to me to figure "WELL they don't like paying their taxes ERGO SOCIALISM STINKS". Polls asking people if they want to complain about taxes are going to get an awful lot of assenting reports in any economic system (besides the "support our system or we shoot you" system, of course).

[Gan]

Well for one thing, slanty letters are marginally more difficult to read, and...

If you tilt your head to the right a little...

[Keller]

I think I can agree that Norway's success is mostly attributed to its low population. I cant see a system as what you described working on a larger scale though, with the same degree of success as Norway has.


Plus we have black people and mexicans!!!!!!!!!!!

[Keller]

They've also got some very interesting stances on immigration/citizenship that would probably make most of the liberals among you cry.

http://www.udi.no/templates/Tema.aspx?id=7394

Among the highlights? No criminals wanted, and learn Norwegian or Saami or GTFO.

I don't mean to get off topic, but you brought it up. I seriously hope you can distinguish between the origins of Norway and the origins of the US. Additionally, Norway can afford those policies because they possess the natural resources to suvive without high levels of human capital. On the other hand, we thrive on human capital, even with our moderate levels of natural resources.

[Tolwynn]

Oh, I can completely differentiate the two. I just think the ramifications of what lengths are needed to go to maintain their socialist paradise are pretty interesting.

[Gan]

Plus we have black people and mexicans!!!!!!!!!!!

What! (Que?)

Where? (Donde?)

[TheEschaton]

Best Country in the world != good. Especially when we've actively tried to push down other countries who would dare to try and be better than us.

Best country for its potential = good.

that's all us liberals want. ;)

-TheE-

[Parkbandit]

Best Country in the world != good. Especially when we've actively tried to push down other countries who would dare to try and be better than us.

Best country for its potential = good.

that's all us liberals want. ;)

-TheE-

Thankfully, there are enough people with brains in the country that won't let that happen here.

Once again, show me an average sized country or larger where Socialism has worked and worked well.

Let me help you. It's never worked and will never work simply because of man's natural instinct to be greedy. We can all want to live in this fantasy world, but when it's put in a realistic setting.. it always fails.