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ElanthianSiren
06-04-2007, 01:34 PM
Charges dismissed against Gitmo prisoner By ANDREW O. SELSKY, Associated Press Writer
1 minute ago



GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - A military judge on Monday dismissed terrorism-related charges against a prisoner charged with killing an American soldier in Afghanistan, in a stunning reversal for the Bush administration's attempts to try Guantanamo detainees in military court.

The chief of military defense attorneys at Guantanamo Bay, Marine Col. Dwight Sullivan, said the ruling in the case of Canadian detainee Omar Khadr could spell the end of the war-crimes trial system set up last year by Congress and President Bush after the Supreme Court threw out the previous system.

But Omar Khadr, who was 15 when he was captured after a deadly firefight in Afghanistan and who is now 20, will remain at the remote U.S. military base along with some 380 other men suspected of links to al-Qaida and the Taliban.

The judge, Army Col. Peter Brownback, said he had no choice but to throw the Khadr case out because he had been classified as an "enemy combatant" by a military panel years earlier — and not as an "alien unlawful enemy combatant."

The Military Commissions Act, signed by Bush last year, specifically says that only those classified as "unlawful" enemy combatants can face war trials here, Brownback noted during the arraignment in a hilltop courtroom on this U.S. military base.

Sullivan said the dismissal of Khadr case has "huge" impact because none of the detainees held at this isolated military base in southeast Cuba has been found to be an "unlawful" enemy combatant.

"It is not just a technicality — it's the latest demonstration that this newest system just does not work," Sullivan told journalists. "It is a system of justice that does not comport with American values."

Sullivan said the judge hearing the case of the only other Guantanamo detainee currently charged with crimes is not bound by Brownback's ruling but that he expected the judge would make the same decision.

That other detainee is Salim Ahmed Hamdan, who is accused of chauffeuring Osama bin Laden and being the al-Qaida chief's bodyguard. His arraignment was scheduled for Monday afternoon.

Brownback's ruling came just minutes into Khadr's arraignment, in which he faced charges he committed murder in violation of the law of war, attempted murder in violation of the law of war, conspiracy, providing material support for terrorism and spying.

"The charges are dismissed without prejudice," Brownback said as he adjourned the proceeding.

Khadr was captured after a firefight in 2002 in which he was wounded and allegedly killed a U.S. Army soldier with a grenade. He appeared in the courtroom with a beard and wearing an olive-green prison uniform.

Only three detainees held here have been charged under the new military tribunal system. The third, Australian David Hicks, pleaded guilty in March to providing material support to al-Qaida and is serving out a nine-month sentence in Australia.

A prosecuting attorney said he would appeal the dismissal of the case.

Under the new war-crimes trial system, the prosecution has 72 hours to appeal, but the court designated to hear the appeal — known as the court of military commissions review — doesn't even exist, Sullivan noted.

Even as the U.S. military hoped to rev up its prosecutions of Guantanamo detainees — with the Pentagon saying it expects to eventually charge about 80 of the 380 prisoners held at this isolated base — questions lingered about the legitimacy of the process.

The Supreme Court, ruling in favor of a lawsuit brought by Hamdan, last June threw out a previous military tribunal system that was set up in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, calling it unconstitutional. Congress responded with new guidelines for war-crimes trials and Bush signed them into law.

Hamdan's attorney, Navy Lt. Cmdr. Charles Swift, told The Associated Press he will challenge the new system, insisting it also is unconstitutional.

For one, the Military Commissions Act retroactively made certain acts such as conspiracy a crime, Swift said.

"This case raises significant questions" about the separation of powers, Swift said. "Congress cannot violate the Constitution to fix things ... but they are backdating anything and making it a crime."

Hamdan is charged with conspiracy — centered on his alleged membership in al-Qaida and purported role in plotting to attack civilians and civilian targets — and with providing material support for terrorism. As part of the second charge, Hamdan is accused of transporting at least one SA-7 surface-to-air missile to shoot down U.S. and coalition military aircraft in Afghanistan in November 2001.

Hamdan's alleged war crimes were committed between February 1996 and November 2001, according to the charge sheet. Swift, in the interview, said some acts predate the start of the Bush administration's war against terrorism, saying it generally is considered to be Sept. 11, 2001.

But Army Lt. Col. William Britt, the chief prosecutor in the Hamdan case, told the AP there is no established date when hostilities commenced and that the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center could be construed as the war's opening shot.

In an interview Sunday at Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington — as prosecutors, defense attorneys, human rights monitors and journalists waited to board a plane to Guantanamo for the arraignments — Britt said he expects a courtroom battle over the matters Swift raised.

"These are novel issues," Britt said. "We're talking about new legislation, with the Military Commissions Act of 2006. We, the government, are looking forward to litigating (them)."

The son of an alleged al-Qaida financier, Khadr is accused of killing U.S. Army Sgt. Christopher Speer with a grenade during a firefight in Afghanistan on July 27, 2002.

Khadr's attorneys had decried the charges against him, saying he was a child soldier and should be rehabilitated, not imprisoned.

"The U.S. will be the first country in modern history to try an individual who was a child at the time of the alleged war crimes," the attorneys said in a joint statement in April.

TheEschaton
06-04-2007, 05:25 PM
Awesome. We had to read Hamdan, Hamdi, and Padilla in Constitutional Law, and I always thought of how crazy those cases were (crazy in terms of violation-of-rights crazy).

-TheE-

Drew
06-05-2007, 03:35 AM
(crazy in terms of violation-of-rights crazy).



What rights are you referring to? These men are not US citizens.

TheEschaton
06-05-2007, 08:08 AM
Geneva rights? Yanno, the ones we signed, agreeing to follow?

Edit: And again, I would argue that the spirit of the Constitution applies to all people.

Nieninque
06-05-2007, 08:17 AM
Even brown people? Crazy!

Asha
06-05-2007, 08:24 AM
Geneva, Schmeneva.
Once they're in orange jumpsuits they're fair game.

Jayvn
06-05-2007, 09:00 AM
Ya the same rules that say we can't shoot at enemy paratroopers..we have to wait till they touch ground... eff that.

Warriorbird
06-05-2007, 01:09 PM
Gosh...the same rules that prevent wholesale torture and crimes against humanity! Terrible!

Gan
06-05-2007, 01:20 PM
I think the rulings are very interesting, and I agree with them in the respect that they follow the rule of law.

I wonder what kind of impact that will have on the good of taking prisoners in the future rather than just oblitering them on the field of battle. Probably not much in the grand scheme of things.

Kill em all and let God sort em out...

sst
06-06-2007, 12:31 AM
Geneva rights? Yanno, the ones we signed, agreeing to follow?

Edit: And again, I would argue that the spirit of the Constitution applies to all people.

What Geneva convention rights are we violating with the prisoners in GITMO?
They are being treated as EPW's which is more than than they deserve.

sst
06-06-2007, 12:36 AM
Ya the same rules that say we can't shoot at enemy paratroopers..we have to wait till they touch ground... eff that.

Eh that isnt true.

TheEschaton
06-06-2007, 07:58 AM
Oh, I don't know, the Conventions against Torture?

Kembal
06-06-2007, 02:19 PM
Uh, Padilla's a US citizen. (No, he's not at Gitmo, but since TheE referenced him in his first reply...) Surely he gets Constitutional protections, traitor or not?

Anyway, the whole system set up by the MCA is destroyed by the rulings. And in their haste to not allow appeals to civilian courts, there's no way to overturn the rulings unless the military appeal court is set up. My bet is this doesn't get resolved until the end of the year, at the very least.

TheEschaton
06-06-2007, 07:12 PM
Padilla was denied rights as a U.S. citizen (right to counsel, right to be charged or released) until the Supreme Court was like, "Yo, WTF?!?!?!?"

And it is true, he was not held in Gitmo, he was held in a military brig in Virginia. Still is, I think.

-TheE-

sst
06-07-2007, 01:00 AM
Oh, I don't know, the Conventions against Torture?

Let me give you an example of real torture. Lets go over what Iraqi's do to other Iraqi's.

Breaking fingers, hands, arms, wrists, toes, feet, legs. Or a favorite of Shi'a's Using a power drill to drill holes in their body before they cut their head off with a 4 inch blade.

Lets talk about the house we found recently that had hajj hanging from meat hooks on the ceiling, its rather difficult to lift a 200 pound man off of a hook when hes hanging above your head.

Or perhaps shoving a broomstick up someones ass is an acceptable form of questioning?

I've seen that stuff first hand, I've had to pick more bodies than I care to count up off the side of the road where they were thrown, either partially decayed and eaten by dogs, or fresh from the night before, and put them in body bags.

"sleep deprivation" something that soldiers go though on a regular basis for longer periods of time than any inmate at GITMO palls in comparison, and isn't torture, sorry.

TheEschaton
06-07-2007, 07:35 AM
Dave, your ignorance astounds me. Iraqis torturing Iraqis does not excuse us from torturing Iraqis.

-TheE-

Parkbandit
06-07-2007, 12:23 PM
Dave, your ignorance astounds me. Iraqis torturing Iraqis does not excuse us from torturing Iraqis.

-TheE-

And what he is saying is that your idea of torture is a fucking joke compared to what he is seeing first hand.

Sleep deprivation < taking a Dewalt 18v with a 1/4" drill and making someone's hand look like swiss cheese.

Kriztian
06-08-2007, 04:55 AM
Let me give you an example of real torture. Lets go over what Iraqi's do to other Iraqi's.

Breaking fingers, hands, arms, wrists, toes, feet, legs. Or a favorite of Shi'a's Using a power drill to drill holes in their body before they cut their head off with a 4 inch blade.

Lets talk about the house we found recently that had hajj hanging from meat hooks on the ceiling, its rather difficult to lift a 200 pound man off of a hook when hes hanging above your head.

Or perhaps shoving a broomstick up someones ass is an acceptable form of questioning?

I've seen that stuff first hand, I've had to pick more bodies than I care to count up off the side of the road where they were thrown, either partially decayed and eaten by dogs, or fresh from the night before, and put them in body bags.

"sleep deprivation" something that soldiers go though on a regular basis for longer periods of time than any inmate at GITMO palls in comparison, and isn't torture, sorry.

And be sure to give a blow by blow of U.S. torture methods, tough guy. Careful how you proceed from here.

ElanthianSiren
06-08-2007, 11:59 AM
And be sure to give a blow by blow of U.S. torture methods, tough guy. Careful how you proceed from here.

I always found that induced extreme hypothermia one quite interesting, personally. I suppose it struck a nerve because since I lost the weight that I did, I am ALWAYS friggin cold; as to the idea of being sprayed down with water then hanging out in an air conditioned cell until hypothermia sets in and you proceed through various states of shock until cardiac arrest, I'd call that torture. I suppose it only counts if you're breaking bones with hammers and danging people from meat hooks.

-M

Clove
06-08-2007, 01:02 PM
Gosh...the same rules that prevent wholesale torture and crimes against humanity! Terrible!

If those rules prevent wholesale torture and crimes against humanity, why do I still see 60+ somethings in spandex on the beach?

Farquar
06-08-2007, 04:34 PM
Only one practical definition to torture exists:

If you were in the same circumstances, would you feel like you were being tortured?

Parkbandit
06-08-2007, 04:48 PM
If I were captured.. I would want to be hugged.

<3

sst
06-15-2007, 07:27 PM
And be sure to give a blow by blow of U.S. torture methods, tough guy. Careful how you proceed from here.

We dont torture. We hug iraqis when we should be a whole lot meaner.