Immigration bill

[Parkbandit]

Am I the only one that thinks this bill is being shoved down our throats? It was put together in secret, released late Thursday.. and a vote is being asked for by Monday Night? It's 1000 pages and full of problems for both liberals and conservatives.

Is this just George Bush wanting to get something under his belt besides Iraq and the War on Terrorism?

My idea of immigration reform isn't let everyone in the country stay and then we'll start worrying about the border... and I'm not ignorant enough not to know that we can't just deport every single illegal.

Here's what it should be imo:

1)Secure the borders. ALL Borders. All entry points into this country.
2)Initiate a Federal ID program
3)Reform all visa programs, immigrant workers program and any other mandated program to monitor who comes into the country and who ends up staying illegally.

THEN worry about immigration reform or dealing with the illegals AFTER our borders and programs are secure.

From what I've read, this bill is a long way from where most Americans want immigration to be at.

[Back]

One interesting aspect to all of this that I don’t think many Americans realize...

As far as infiltration of our country from extremists Mexico has very strict security on its other borders and airports. Same with Canada. So the whole national security issue is really moot. Granted, the possibility does exist, but our neighbors have been very understanding and resilient about that particular issue.

So to me it seems more like an economic issue than a security one.

Oh, one more thing to add. I agree with our President’s stance on this issue. Its a rare day, but nothing is totally impossible.

[Parkbandit]

One interesting aspect to all of this that I don’t think many Americans realize...

As far as infiltration of our country from extremists Mexico has very strict security on its other borders and airports. Same with Canada. So the whole national security issue is really moot. Granted, the possibility does exist, but our neighbors have been very understanding and resilient about that particular issue.

So to me it seems more like an economic issue than a security one.


When you wrote this.. did you laugh as much as I did?

Well played. 'The border is already very secure.' Nice sarcasm. I bet a lot of people didn't get it.. but I did.

[TheEschaton]

I think the troubling part is 2, PB. A federal ID program would need extensive checks and balances, and a card-carrying member of the ACLU like myself wouldn't be happy until I was sure it couldn't be used to monitor my movements, and was only being used to verify my status WHEN PRESENTED by myself in whichever situation.

As for immigration standards themselves - I'd like to see a simultaneous ease on requirements of what it takes to come to this country legally, if we have to crack down on people who enter illegally.

My personal belief is that if you want to have globalization (which is a whole other debate, but for now that's the way our country does things, on the economic side) of corporations and economics, you have to have a globalization of the work force as well. Allowing corporations to sneak to Mexico to try and get lax health standards and a near non-existent minimum wage, and not allowing people to emigrate and come to the U.S. for those better benefits our society DOES guarantee, is protectionist towards companies, and a human rights violation against those people, in that it involuntarily enslaves them to companies which exploit them.

[Parkbandit]

I think the troubling part is 2, PB. A federal ID program would need extensive checks and balances, and a card-carrying member of the ACLU like myself wouldn't be happy until I was sure it couldn't be used to monitor my movements, and was only being used to verify my status WHEN PRESENTED by myself in whichever situation.

As for immigration standards themselves - I'd like to see a simultaneous ease on requirements of what it takes to come to this country legally, if we have to crack down on people who enter illegally.

My personal belief is that if you want to have globalization (which is a whole other debate, but for now that's the way our country does things, on the economic side) of corporations and economics, you have to have a globalization of the work force as well. Allowing corporations to sneak to Mexico to try and get lax health standards and a near non-existent minimum wage, and not allowing people to emigrate and come to the U.S. for those better benefits our society DOES guarantee, is protectionist towards companies, and a human rights violation against those people, in that it involuntarily enslaves them to companies which exploit them.

Are you opposed to a Driver license or a state ID?

What is the difference.. except there would be one format instead of 50+? If someone in NY wanted to trace me, they still can.

[Back]

When you wrote this.. did you laugh as much as I did?

Well played. 'The border is already very secure.' Nice sarcasm. I bet a lot of people didn't get it.. but I did.

Like I said. Obviously you are not aware that our fiends to the north and south have already tightened their security with respect for our own.

You want to play the dumb-ass and besiege our neighbors, and just about anyone else in the world, with smack-talk. Good thing you aren’t in politics because nurturing relations with our neighbors in this hemisphere goes a long way towards national security.

[TheEschaton]

Well, last I checked, my NY driver's license doesn't have biometric data in it, as they have so far proposed in re: to the federal ID.

-TheE-

[Stanley Burrell]

Visas are federal IDs. Who from the States doesn't travel overseas? And if I'm not mistaken, aren't passports starting to (or have been) required to be shown in several state to state travels post 9-11 world?

It seems amazingly simpler to me to just be, if needed, more damn serious about the use of visas and their respective acquirement and levels of attainability with regard to immigrating persons. Maybe keep some state of the art unique hologram in folks' passports or something. Work (and improvise) with the existing system. Overhauls suck.

[Artha]

And if I'm not mistaken, aren't passports starting to (or have been) required to be shown in several state to state travels post 9-11 world?


I'm pretty sure you're mistaken here, this doesn't seem AT ALL likely.

[Seran]

The problem of millions of undereducated illegals suddenly becoming elligible for social security, medi-caid, section 8, and various other grants frightens the hell out of me. I'm curious as to when the conservative base of the Republican party stopped being the bunch of racist that helped keep this sort of thing from happening.

Yes, the Democrats are to be blamed too..

[CrystalTears]

I'm curious as to when the conservative base of the Republican party stopped being the bunch of racist that helped keep this sort of thing from happening.
Wow. My conservative, LEGAL, Cuban family would have a conniption if they read this.

[Ilvane]

Oh my god..I agree with PB again.:(

:cries:

[CrystalTears]

Like I said. Obviously you are not aware that our fiends to the north and south have already tightened their security with respect for our own.
I hope that was deliberate. :lol:

[Seran]

conniption away, I stand behind my post.

[Parkbandit]

The problem of millions of undereducated illegals suddenly becoming elligible for social security, medi-caid, section 8, and various other grants frightens the hell out of me. I'm curious as to when the conservative base of the Republican party stopped being the bunch of racist that helped keep this sort of thing from happening.

Yes, the Democrats are to be blamed too..

Once again your stupidity shines through a pretty good discussion.

[Parkbandit]

Oh my god..I agree with PB again.:(

:cries:

There may be hope for you yet.

[Parkbandit]

WASHINGTON - Senate leaders agreed Monday that they would wait until June to take final action on a bipartisan plan to give millions of unlawful immigrants legal status.

The measure, which also tightens border security and workplace enforcement measures, unites a group of influential liberals, centrists and conservatives and has White House backing, but it has drawn criticism from across the political spectrum. In a nod to that opposition, Senate leaders won't seek to complete it before a hoped-for Memorial Day deadline.

http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/2007/05/21/ap/headlines/d8p93qfo0.txt



Well at least they aren't trying to shove it down our throats.

[Daniel]

God forbid the conservative party actually uphold the ideals that this country was founded on.

[Gan]

The problem of millions of undereducated illegals suddenly becoming elligible for social security, medi-caid, section 8, and various other grants frightens the hell out of me. I'm curious as to when the conservative base of the Republican party stopped being the bunch of racist that helped keep this sort of thing from happening.

Yes, the Democrats are to be blamed too..


conniption away, I stand behind my post.

Yea, God forbid they actually apply and get their own tax payer identification number instead of stealing someone elses and getting a job that pays taxes and contributes to things like social security, medi-caid, federal income tax, state income tax, etc... yea, thats really a bad thing.

Jesus you're an idiot.

[TheEschaton]

Ah ha, the stealing someone else's job argument. I was waiting for it.

-TheE-

[Some Rogue]

Ah ha, the stealing someone else's job argument. I was waiting for it.

-TheE-

I think he said stealing their ID not their job. Nice try though.

[Seran]

Yea, God forbid they actually apply and get their own tax payer identification number instead of stealing someone elses and getting a job that pays taxes and contributes to things like social security, medi-caid, federal income tax, state income tax, etc... yea, thats really a bad thing.

Because uneducated produce pickers, fast food workers, and general unskilled laborors make enough money to pay back more than they and their spawn will use in a lifetime.

Do alittle research before you call someone an idiot, I'm not so surprised that you don't know what you're talking about. Par for the course.

[CrystalTears]

Their spawn... like anyone should attempt to debate it when you're being a choad. They make more here than they would in Mexico, obviously, or they wouldn't bust their ass to come here, make money, and send it back to their family back home.

[Gan]

Because uneducated produce pickers, fast food workers, and general unskilled laborors make enough money to pay back more than they and their spawn will use in a lifetime.

Do alittle research before you call someone an idiot, I'm not so surprised that you don't know what you're talking about. Par for the course.

Please research on how social security and federal income taxes work and how it affects me as the generation after the baby boomer generation...

Thats why I called you an idiot - because you have no idea of the impact adding 12 to 15 million illegal immigrants to the tax rolls will have on the economy, annual federal tax receipts, and social security deposits.

[Parkbandit]

God forbid the conservative party actually uphold the ideals that this country was founded on.


I didn't realize that the ideals of this country were to abide by whatever laws you want to and just ignore the ones you don't agree with. Weird.

[Parkbandit]

Because uneducated produce pickers, fast food workers, and general unskilled laborors make enough money to pay back more than they and their spawn will use in a lifetime.

Do alittle research before you call someone an idiot, I'm not so surprised that you don't know what you're talking about. Par for the course.


I think our extensive research has in fact concluded that you are an idiot.

[Daniel]

I didn't realize that the ideals of this country were to abide by whatever laws you want to and just ignore the ones you don't agree with. Weird.

I'm pretty sure they are changing the law. Therefore, your argument has absolutely no basis.

Big surprise there.

[Gan]

Personally, I think we should just buy Mexico and make it into several more states.

Then we wouldnt have to build such a large fence. ;)

[Daniel]

Manifest Destiny 21k: Heading south.