Beware: Brothervodj45/Puffinmage@aol.com is a thief

[Anebriated]

Just giving a warning to everyone else on these boards. Do not do business with Puffinmage@aol.com. I tried to purchase his wizard the other day and he took my money and then blocked me from AIM and stopped all contact. I filed a claim with paypal but I know they wont do anything about it. Just dont want him to get away with it on anyone else. If anyone wants to know his RL name shoot me a PM and ill give it out. If you are bored feel free to sign his email up for some gay porn or something. Hopefully this saves someone else from getting scammed.



Gender: Male Age: 33 Expr: 2367064 Level: 47
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 69 (14) ... 69 (14)
Constitution (CON): 59 (4) ... 34 (-8)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Agility (AGI): 84 (17) ... 84 (17)
Discipline (DIS): 84 (17) ... 84 (17)
Aura (AUR): 97 (23) ... 97 (23)
Logic (LOG): 87 (23) ... 87 (23)
Intuition (INT): 75 (17) ... 75 (17)
Wisdom (WIS): 91 (20) ... 91 (20)
Influence (INF): 69 (9) ... 69 (9)

Level: 47 Deeds: 0
Experience: 2367064 Death's Sting: Crushing!
Exp. until next: 18936 Recent Deaths: 2
Mental TPs: 0 Fame: 9525320
Physical TPs: 5 Mana: 200/200 max
(1768 Phy converted to Mnt)

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 20 4
Physical Fitness...................| 50 10
Arcane Symbols.....................| 170 70
Magic Item Use.....................| 170 70
Spell Aiming.......................| 174 74
Harness Power......................| 200 100
Elemental Mana Control.............| 150 50
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 148 48
Perception.........................| 148 48
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 70 15

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 40

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 35

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 41

no current fixskills, but theres one in 19 days anyways, so its not that big of a deal

Comes bare
Master of COL

looking for atleast 200, 300 buy out this second
want to sell fast, would like to sell by end of the day if possible Its for the account, not a transfer

contact me at puffinmage@aol.com

[Gan]

What an asshat.

Thanks for the headsup. Sorry you got scammed bub. I'll definately warn off people from this guy.

Its also good to know the character stats, so we can look to see when he tries to sell again.

[LeftOverForGood]

Having a hell of a time formatting this correctly, but you get the idea.





I'm confused. He's your wizard?

correct

And I take it the wizard is not for sale?

no

I had emailed Puffinmage as well, but then saw Doughboy's post. Maybe Doughboy can shed some light on who this jerkoff is.

[beer]

puffinmage is zimzum's play.net address. no idea if he's behind the aol account too; might be someone trying to pretend to be zim to rip people off.

[beer]

eh, looks like that is zimzum's email:

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:SEUyv1GyvLgJ:forum.goneb4uknowit.co m/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D6%26sid%3Dff014689b3d0290f485c 2f48da17dbf3+puffinmage&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a

[Gan]

Easy way to find out of its Zim... since he's pretty well known.

Anyone know if Zim has a level 47 wizard that he's been seen playing in the past?

[Khariz]

I've had dealings with PuffinMage before and have never been ripped off.

Either this is a different guy, or something has gone wrong in this guy's brain.

I'd make sure this isn't some kind of misunderstanding.

[Gan]

A claim was made via paypal and the guy immediately escalated it, knowing paypal will not warranty these types of transactions... (Correct me if I misspoke there Elrodin)

That doesnt sound like a miscommunication.

[Anebriated]

Ive attempted to make contact with him several times, IM'd him on various accounts that he hadnt blocked. He has not once responded since I was blocked initially. He has responded to the email that paypal sent to escalate my dispute to a claim. If this is a misunderstanding he needs to talk to me about it yesterday.

[Khariz]

Oh yeah, I argree. It's just tripping me out that someone I know could be doing this. Ya never know.

[Gan]

HAHA Elrodin just tried to contact Zimzum via psinet and got this as a response...

[OOC]-(Notice): "Moderator Zimzum has left the channel."

[beer]

zim is kind of a moron but i've never known him to be a thief. did you actually paypal the cash to puffinmage@aol.com?

[Khariz]

That's pretty fishy.

[Danical]

what dickery.

[beer]

wow. crazy that zim would decide to do this after being around so long. who is doughboy?

[Sean of the Thread]

BISSSSCCCOOOOOO

[GS4-Brimzstone]

Sorry that you got ripped off man...
I was gonna see about buying it as well... No response from him so I didn't bother...

On a side note this doesn't sound like the Zimzum I known in the past.. He been sold or something? It would seem odd that someone was able to gain access to his paypal/aim/email/pc/game... so must be him..

Just don't know why he would pull a fast one...

[Gan]

Good luck on him trying to sell off any other items/characters. Not to mention something like this would definately make me reconsider how I interacted with someone such as this in game, regardless if its OOC/IG boundary crossing.

Hopefully peer pressure will help encourage him in refunding the money.

[Anebriated]

yes, the money was sent to his paypal account. If you guys know him, talk to him please. Ill happily delete the thread if he just returns the money. I know(now) that the wizard doesnt even belong to him. Im not worried about that. I have his name, email, and reverse lookups to make his life hell though since I know paypal wont refund money on intangable items.

[The Ponzzz]

What state he live in?

[Gan]

Wow, look at all the pieces of the puzzle start fitting into place.

WAY TO GO PC !!!

[CrystalTears]

Yeah. Messing with a regular of the PC is a really big, regrettable mistake.

[Anebriated]

Pretty sure hes in Florida iirc

[GS4-Brimzstone]

Yeah. Messing with a regular of the PC is a really big, regrettable mistake.

::messes with CrystalTears:::


=P

[LeftOverForGood]

I thought Zim and Bisco had already been sold? Granted the current owner has played him awhile, but still originally sold?

[The Ponzzz]

Now to find every player who lives in Florida.

[beer]

the whole thing is just bizarre. zim has plenty of nice items he could have sold off he was really hurting for cash. instead he rips someone off with a character he does't even own while using his own well known email address?

i guess he's a bigger moron than i thought.

[Fallen]

This is a damn shame. Thanks for the head's up.

[Sean of the Thread]

List of Florida players that I can recall atm.

Stunseed.
Jolena.
PB
Myself.
Revon
Vitruvian
Some other douche near orlando.
Several others that will come to me. Search for the Florida get together thread.

[Asha]

Nauriel = Florida
Don't trust that btch either.
(kiddin)

[The Ponzzz]

Curious, what paypal account did you send to?

Was it puffinmage@aol.com?

If so, it was def. Zim...

[Sean of the Thread]

Emislutty or old Emislutty if you believe she sold.

Maybe Revon can comment on that.

[softheart]

There are some of us in the Northwest Panhandle also.....

[Martaigne]

Wow, this sucks. Thanks for the heads up.

[Doughboy]

Easy way to find out of its Zim... since he's pretty well known.

Anyone know if Zim has a level 47 wizard that he's been seen playing in the past?

yeah it was my wizard

I let him play him because I don't play that often..next thing I know I see it for sale. I call billing..change the account name/pw, etc etc. I see the character log in for a moment today the old account name is gone, new account name is gone...billing says talk to lockout...

[Doughboy]

Sorry that you got ripped off man...
I was gonna see about buying it as well... No response from him so I didn't bother...

On a side note this doesn't sound like the Zimzum I known in the past.. He been sold or something? It would seem odd that someone was able to gain access to his paypal/aim/email/pc/game... so must be him..

Just don't know why he would pull a fast one...

Dude, I've known him for like 15 years....I never saw that one coming. But he's dodging IM's, psinet chats, etc etc....

If it wasn't him...he's pulling one hell of an OJ in the white Ford

[Martaigne]

So he got your character locked out in the process of stealing him and ripping this other guy off? Something smells fishy, and it ain't the tuna.

[Gan]

yeah it was my wizard

I let him play him because I don't play that often..next thing I know I see it for sale. I call billing..change the account name/pw, etc etc. I see the character log in for a moment today the old account name is gone, new account name is gone...billing says talk to lockout...

So his response to your changing the account name/pw was to call in and 'phish' for the new info in order to gain access?

Holy shit. You better check your any other accounts under the same name as the one locked out; we just saw an example where they locked out the user and all accounts under his name for phishing, intentional or not.

.... And yea, based on my conversations with Elrodin and encouragement to bring the matter here before the glorious PC, I've been having visions of a white bronco as well, only he's the one driving it.

Bottom line:

Actions speak louder than words. If he's upright and innocent he would not have ignored Elrodin's requests, he would not have blocked Elrodin's IM, he would not have escalated the issue to paypal immediately instead of contacting Elrodin to clear up the matter, he would not have 'slammed' when Elrodin attempted to contact him via psinet this morning, and lastly he would have been posting here on the PC defending himself.

Hard not to judge in a case like this. :(

[Doughboy]

So his response to your changing the account name/pw was to call in and 'phish' for the new info in order to gain access?


Not sure, once I get something back from lockout I'll be more than happy to post what they say.



Holy shit. You better check your any other accounts under the same name as the one locked out; we just saw an example where they locked out the user and all accounts under his name for phishing, intentional or not.

.... And yea, based on my conversations with Elrodin and encouragement to bring the matter here before the glorious PC, I've been having visions of a white bronco as well.

I read bits and pieces of that thread and said to myself...damn that sucks man. Go figure. Just goes to show you how much you can really trust "friends."

[CrystalTears]

Holy frijoles, Batman.

[Gan]

Everytime I see Zimzum online and on psinet, the link to this thread shall be posted and discussions encouraged. We cant make him pay the money back except through peer pressure. And I intend to make his life on psinet and in Gemstone (as much as possible without drawing fire from the GMs for OOCism) as much of a living hell as possible.

My goal is for everyone who associates with Zimzum to know he's a thief and not to be trusted. No matter how hard you try to not let it, knowledge such as this does affect how those around you interact with you. Not to mention, once you put on the jacket of a thief, its damn hard to get it off your back.

[radamanthys]

Yikes, he always seemed like a decent dude, to me.

[beer]

is he in game now? if they locked out the wizard's account for phishing there's a fair chance they locked his main account too.

[Martaigne]

Make him wear a sign that states "I am a thief." in front of Wal-Mart between the hours of 11am and 3pm.

[Gan]

Doubtful they locked his account out if the account he was phishing for was under someone else's name. Its that somene else's accounts, based on my logic, that would be at risk for additional lockout measures by Simutronics.

Especially since its doubtful that he gave Simu his real name or account info while soliciting for information on the other.

[Gan]

Make him wear a sign that states "I am a thief." in front of Wal-Mart between the hours of 11am and 3pm.

I think an appropriate psinet title of that nature is definately called for...

[Doughboy]

I mean shit...if he was that hard up for cash he could have just asked me (eff all of you who will in posts that follow this one.) He lives like 20 minutes away from me...

[Gan]

:rofl:

I"ll send you my paypal address by U2U. ;)

[The Ponzzz]

Damn, so he knows you could stab him in his sleep!

[Gan]

If someone juked me out of a few bills and I then found out they lived 20 minutes away; I'd be paying a visit...

[Doughboy]

If someone juked me out of a few bills and I then found out they lived 20 minutes away; I'd be paying a visit...

hell...I'm not out a dime. I'm out a wizard.

[Martaigne]

Look at it this way... how much time did you put into that wizard?

[Celephais]

Doubtful they locked his account out if the account he was phishing for was under someone else's name. Its that somene else's accounts, based on my logic, that would be at risk for additional lockout measures by Simutronics.

Especially since its doubtful that he gave Simu his real name or account info while soliciting for information on the other.

They could lock out his accounts based on IP, if he was attempting to log into the account they could match the IP and lock out accounts that frequently log in from that IP (or subsequently attempt to login from that IP)

[StrayRogue]

Very disappointing. I'd never have expected this from Zimzum.

[Khariz]

This is amazing.

[Crippler]

Hes probably done with the game and cashin out on what he can. Pretty much, you got hussled; cause nothing can be done.

[Bobmuhthol]

That explanation would make sense if he actually sold the character.

[Celephais]

Hes probably done with the game and cashin out on what he can. Pretty much, you got hussled; cause nothing can be done.


That explanation would make sense if he actually sold the character.

Well Doughboy mentioned having the account name changed after he saw it was for sale, so maybe he got locked out before he could actually sell the character. Except I'm sure he could have gotten a lot more for Zim, and what with the rep he has now he definatly won't. It's possible that was his plan though, actually sell the wizard, and actually sell Zim as well (but you'd think he'd list them around the same time).

[mgoddess]

Hes probably done with the game and cashin out on what he can. Pretty much, you got hussled; cause nothing can be done.

If you'd read the thread a bit more, you'd realize this isn't the case. The person who was "selling" didn't own what he had advertised, and when someone tried to buy the "product," the "seller" ran off with the money and never produced the goods.

[The Ponzzz]

My guess is it started as a joke. And when someone waved the $300 under his nose he wanted to see how far the joke can go to benefit his own wallet.

It's my guess anyways.

[Orp]

how sad to think that a game we play to get away from the grind would cost us so dearly
Hope something can be done to get your money back

[Anebriated]

Alright well thanks for all the support people. I just got an email from paypal saying that the money has been returned just waiting for it to be cleared. I hope they dont give you much trouble trying to get your wizard back bisco, sorry for the hassle it caused.

[Gan]

Thats great news Elrodin!

This is a rare happy ending for something like this when it happens.

[beer]

nice. it'll be interesting to see what if any excuse he throws out for this.

[Bobmuhthol]

btw, if this is your first time recollecting money on Paypal, it's likely to be your last in situations like this. They have a policy to give you your first return without really questioning you.

[Gan]

From what I understand, this was voluntarily refunded by Zimzum. Paypal did not enforce any repayment for it to qualify any action on their part.

[The Ponzzz]

btw, if this is your first time recollecting money on Paypal, it's likely to be your last in situations like this. They have a policy to give you your first return without really questioning you.


I actually was just reading about this and was gonna post it!

About 90% of the time, paypal will refund your first time in cases such as this. After that point, it's very very hard to get back money you sent to someone. And count all virtual sales as a sure shot in never getting it back.

[Alfster]

Weird, i've gotten money back 3 times for fraudulent sales of gold.

[The Ponzzz]

Weird, i've gotten money back 3 times for fraudulent sales of gold.

Before or after ebay's ruling of virtual sales?

[Alfster]

Dunno when that was

[Gan]

:yell: This thread is why the PC rocks above any other boards.

I feel the need for a group hug and a beer.

:2beers: :grouphug:

:ultimate:

[Bobmuhthol]

I've only had to use it once, so I don't know the effectiveness level beyond that point, but a representative had e-mailed me saying that they usually don't refund non-tangible purchases like that and do it the first time as a courtesy.

[StrayRogue]

Imagine Zim did the refund out of sheer pressure alone.

Still, what a fucking douchebag.

[DeV]

I mean shit...if he was that hard up for cash he could have just asked me (eff all of you who will in posts that follow this one.) He lives like 20 minutes away from me...That was my first thought. Who the hell is that hard up he scams someone from the PC of all places, and in the process fucks someone who considered him a buddy and probably would have gladly helped him out with some cash flow.

Sorry to hear about it Elrod. I hope you get your money back somehow, someway.

Edited to add, grats on getting your money back.

Note to self: No matter how excruciating, read entire thread history before adding insight.

[Skeeter]

Glad you got your money back Elrodin. Too bad Paris doesn't post on the PC, she might have gone free.

(really its not too bad)

[Necromancer]

I dunno. Something still seems odd. Zim owns a bar of sorts, doesn't he? What would he need with a lousy $300 or so? And why would he sacrifice so much for it?

And yet, why block the intended buyer from AIM?

I'm reserving judgement until the time that Zim decides to explain. And if he never does...eh.

Though I'm also quite glad you got the money back

[Anebriated]

The plot thickens... apparently sergey bought the same wizard...

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=24598

[Ilvane]

...this is seriously messed up.

[Gan]

I believe this gives a clearer picture of intent.

[Sean of the Thread]

...this is seriously messed up.

Thanks for contributing...

[Gan]

This now begs the question:

Whom else has he sold this character to, prior to sale and delivery to GSAuctions, and subsequently screwed the prospective buyer out of their money?

[allen]

um, I bought it too, whose refunding me my money?!

[Alfster]

I dunno. Something still seems odd. Zim owns a bar of sorts, doesn't he? What would he need with a lousy $300 or so? And why would he sacrifice so much for it?

And yet, why block the intended buyer from AIM?

I'm reserving judgement until the time that Zim decides to explain. And if he never does...eh.

Though I'm also quite glad you got the money back

Clearly your ADD hasn't allowed you to actually read the thread. The proof is here.

[Xaerve]

Wow, I've known JJ for years and never saw this coming... I just can't believe he'd do something like this for 300$.

I'm going to try to get in touch with him.

It sounds like the situation has been sorted though, which is good news.

[crazymage]

Well it's not sorted i'm still out my $$.

[JamusPsi]

Clearly your ADD hasn't allowed you to actually read the thread. The proof is here.

Funny, having been following this thread, all I've seen is a lot of "That's messed up!" and one side of the conflict/problem. Right now it's one word against another's, isn't it? I don't see how that's proof, personally.

So like him, I will withhold judgment until both sides are represented.

(Though I'll admit that there's a white bronco vibe to all this.)

[Xaerve]

Well it's not sorted i'm still out my $$.

:(

That sucks then. You've been a stand up guy in every transaction I've had with you. That was honorable what you did... giving the character back; another testament to your good business at least.

[Gan]

Funny, having been following this thread, all I've seen is a lot of "That's messed up!" and one side of the conflict/problem. Right now it's one word against another's, isn't it? I don't see how that's proof, personally.

So like him, I will withhold judgment until both sides are represented.

(Though I'll admit that there's a white bronco vibe to all this.)

You cant be serious...

Why dont you look up on the psinet logs of this morning and see where Elrodin attempted to contact Zimzum and look at zimzim's response (logging off) in return. Then look up the other thread where the ownership of said character is claimed by Bisco, and now we subsequently see GSAuctions inputting where they also bought the character. Yes, I'm sure all these reputable people are just LYING!!!.

Also notice the lack of response or any sort of defense to these allegations and facts from Zimzum himself.

[Alfster]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=24598

[Sean of the Thread]

Crack cocaine is a powerful drug.

[Gan]

So is ignorance.

[Alfster]

Crack cocaine is a powerful drug.

answer your IM's fucker

[DeV]

Here we have the word of three people who've been upfront about their ordeal with a seller who's yet to defend his actions or those of someone who's been falsely representing him.

While we wait for that to happen it's safe to say that all three of these guys are telling the truth and only one person is not.

[The Ponzzz]

Summary

The facts:

The wizard is owned by the player of Bisco

Zimzum had permission to use said wizard from Bisco's player

Sale went up, wanted to sell him in less than 24 hours, made the BO price very affordable and cheap

The contact for the seller was puffinmage who is Zimzum

The paypal is Zimzum's paypal

Elrodin purchased him and paid

crazymage purchased him and paid

crazymage has received him

Elrodin was refunded by paypal and is awaiting the funds to clear(3 business days most likely)

Bisco's account was NUKED!

The rumors:

Zimzum authorized the refund

It was in fact Zimzum(clearly we believe this, but who knows!)

Zimzum was stabbed by Bisco's player(hey I heard it in IMs!!)

More than 2 people bought him.

[crazymage]

I recieved him.

[The Ponzzz]

Oh! Misread what was previously said!

[Doughboy]

My account wasn't locked out...it was nuked. The account names that the character was on are invalid log in ID's now.

And no, I haven't stabbed anybody yet. I might hit him with a tubesteak in the cheek if I happen to see him though.

[The Ponzzz]

Heh! Least you still have your sense of humor through all this.

[Doughboy]

The video of said cheek smacking will be available at your local Blockbuster or Netflicks for purchase at the mere price of $39.95 for the unrated version.

[KrolvinScout]

The video of said cheek smacking will be available at your local Blockbuster or Netflicks for purchase at the mere price of $39.95 for the unrated version.

I miss you in Psi-Net Biscuits :(

Plat sucked me up a while ago, it's great.

[JamusPsi]

You cant be serious...

Why dont you look up on the psinet logs of this morning and see where Elrodin attempted to contact Zimzum and look at zimzim's response (logging off) in return. Then look up the other thread where the ownership of said character is claimed by Bisco, and now we subsequently see GSAuctions inputting where they also bought the character. Yes, I'm sure all these reputable people are just LYING!!!.

Also notice the lack of response or any sort of defense to these allegations and facts from Zimzum himself.

First, I don't log every communication that ever happens on PsiNet. So I really can't check that. [edit: Also, for the ten minutes before Zimzum logged off, he happened to be helping me alpha test PsiNet2. He needed to reboot, and never came back.]

Second, Zimzum is also reputable, and so while you incredulously ask me if I believe those others are lying, you expect me to accept that he is. Why not the other way around?

Third, I don't have to "notice" the lack of response. The entire point of my post was that there hadn't been any defense or comment from Zimzum. In fact, what I said was that I would withhold judgment until both sides are represented.

It should also be noted that the thread thus far has said that Elrodin was refunded voluntarily by Zimzum. That doesn't sound as much like an intentional ripoff.

As to Bisco's claim, I won't comment. I personally have other information that I am not comfortable sharing presently, which compels me to be especially cautious in jumping to a conclusion. [edit: At least before hearing more from Zimzum.]

Personally, I find your declared vendetta in the absence of any real evidence other than hearsay (reputable hearsay even), and without at least having heard the opposite side, to be severely premature.

I can't say whether your judgment is correct or not, but I strongly feel that it was rushed to.

[Anebriated]

The rumors:

Zimzum authorized the refund

It was in fact Zimzum(clearly we believe this, but who knows!)

Zimzum was stabbed by Bisco's player(hey I heard it in IMs!!)

More than 2 people bought him.

As far as Im aware the refund was authorized by puffinmage@aol.com.

Money was sent to puffinmage@aol.com through paypal, which is known to be zimzum's paypal account.

I read it on the internet, it must be true.

I paid for the wizard and sergey paid for the wizard, 2 people bought him.

not many rumors there.

[Anebriated]

First, I don't log every communication that ever happens on PsiNet. So I really can't check that. [edit: Also, for the ten minutes before Zimzum logged off, he happened to be helping me alpha test PsiNet2. He needed to reboot, and never came back.]

Second, Zimzum is also reputable, and so while you incredulously ask me if I believe those others are lying, you expect me to accept that he is. Why not the other way around?

Third, I don't have to "notice" the lack of response. The entire point of my post was that there hadn't been any defense or comment from Zimzum. In fact, what I said was that I would withhold judgment until both sides are represented.

It should also be noted that the thread thus far has said that Elrodin was refunded voluntarily by Zimzum. That doesn't sound as much like an intentional ripoff.

As to Bisco's claim, I won't comment. I personally have other information that I am not comfortable sharing presently, which compels me to be especially cautious in jumping to a conclusion. [edit: At least before hearing more from Zimzum.]

Personally, I find your declared vendetta in the absence of any real evidence other than hearsay (reputable hearsay even), and without at least having heard the opposite side, to be severely premature.

I can't say whether your judgment is correct or not, but I strongly feel that it was rushed to.

All that being said... he still tried to sell a character to 2 people that wasnt even his property. I could understand your argument if he owned the wizard but it wasnt his to sell.

[Doughboy]

As to Bisco's claim, I won't comment. I personally have other information that I am not comfortable sharing presently, which compels me to be especially cautious in jumping to a conclusion. [edit: At least before hearing more from Zimzum.]

I'm instantly curious as to what the hell you're talking about. But if you need the trump card to that fact luckily I save old ass email for no real reason.

Names removed for obvious reasons.

Edited to add: Of course this will be open to people saying it's fake etc etc.

From : Transfer <transfer@simutronics.com>
Sent : Friday, May 13, 2005 1:20 PM
To : Doughboy1501@msn.com
Subject : Character Transfer Success (was Re: Character Transfer Request (XXXXXX ))


Go to previous message | Go to next message | Delete | Simu | Inbox

At 06:26 PM 5/12/2005, you wrote:
THIS IS AN AUTOMATIC COPY OF YOUR CUSTOMER SERVICE REQUEST.
A RESPONSE WILL BE SENT IN 7-10 DAYS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

ACCOUNT TRANSFER REQUEST
----------------------------------------------

Name : GARUMMN (Eric S Moore)
Game : GS4 PRIME
Browser : Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; AskBar 3.00; .NET CLR 1.0.3705)
Date : 5/12/2005 6:26:45 PM


Sending Acct : XXXXXXX
Security Answr: XXXXXX
Character : XXXXXX
Receiving : GARUMMN
Agree to Pay? : YES

Maintenance :


** IMPORTANT! ** The sending account must also submit a
transfer request for the transfer to occur. If they have not
already done so, please direct them to the transfer form at:

http://www.play.net/gs4/cservice/character_transfer.asp

You will be notified when the transfer occurs, but if ten days
go by without a transfer, please resend your transfer request.

This character has been successfully transferred to your account and should be available for use immediately.

If you have any further concerns or requests, please let us know.

Thank you.


Joseph J. LaFata
Character transfers
Simutronics Corporation

PS. Remember to either FORWARD your response (do not reply) or copy the entire history of letters into a new email before sending it off to us.

[Sean of the Thread]

All factors being even the fact that isn't in contention is Jamus is a bias douche bag.

Take his word as you will. (or take it like a dripping slimy squishy douche bag)

[Alfster]

See, Zimzum's not even cute so I don't know why Jamus has such a hardon for him.

[JamusPsi]

Bleh, doubleposted because the first one didn't appear to take, and wasn't finished. See below.

[Gan]

First, I don't log every communication that ever happens on PsiNet. So I really can't check that.
Oddly enough, logs of statements from psinet have been 'dug up' before if my memory serves correctly. Odd that it doesnt happen now... Or just convenient.


Second, Zimzum is also reputable, and so while you incredulously ask me if I believe those others are lying, you expect me to accept that he is. Why not the other way around?
Until this morning I would have agreed with you. Evidence now clearly demonstrates the alternative.


Third, I don't have to "notice" the lack of response. The entire point of my post was that there hadn't been any defense or comment from Zimzum. In fact, what I said was that I would withhold judgment until both sides are represented.
Unwillingness to come forth and clear a good name can be evidence of guilt. Unresponded to emails, blocked IM's, unanswered attempts of psinet communication by logging off after contact is initiated represents evidence all on their own. Much like OJ hopping in the Bronco...


It should also be noted that the thread thus far has said that Elrodin was refunded voluntarily by Zimzum. That doesn't sound as much like an intentional ripoff.
I initially stated that based on my conversation with Elrodin. Since all previous attempts at communication were unsuccessful, and no indication from Paypal that the refund was forced, leads one to believe the refund was voluntary; however, because it was after many many people who know Zimzum chimed in, attempted to contact him, and his possible review of the information demonstrated in these two threads would lead a reasonable person to conclude that the refund was initiated out of peer pressure in order to maintain some semblance of player/game integrity. If Zimzum were cashing out, then I doubt a refund would have been offered at all.


As to Bisco's claim, I won't comment. I personally have other information that I am not comfortable sharing presently, which compels me to be especially cautious in jumping to a conclusion. [edit: At least before hearing more from Zimzum.].
I personally have information demonstrating Zimzum's intent on the contrary, as shared by Elrodin. This compels me to believe that Zimzum had the opportunity and means to perpitrate the theft. The only thing thats missing is motive, which could be deduced as a need for cash or greed since the money was the root of the issue.


Personally, I find your declared vendetta in the absence of any real evidence other than hearsay (reputable hearsay even), and without at least having heard the opposite side, to be severely premature.
LOL at vendetta. Having dealt at length in game and out of game with Elrodin I can guarantee you there was no false claim on his part, further substantiated by the fact that we now see a refund coming to him from Zimzum.


I can't say whether your judgment is correct or not, but I strongly feel that it was rushed to.
While I cant say your judgement is correct or not either, I can say that your loyalty to Zimzum, while admirable, is misplaced based on the evidence given in these two threads today, and his lack of contrary evidence thereof.

[JamusPsi]

To be more clear: a different but undetailed story was given me by Zimzum at the beginning of all this. What I was told is in direct contradiction of some of the things asserted in this thread. Therefore I'm not comfortable sharing it, because either it was true and this is all a very very strange misunderstanding, or Zimzum lost his mind and lied point-blank to me-- which is not a conclusion I am willing to reach, as I said, without hearing more from him.


All factors being even the fact that isn't in contention is Jamus is a bias douche bag.

Take his word as you will. (or take it like a dripping slimy squishy douche bag)

I don't have any word to take. I am not trying to convince anyone and I am not defending Zimzum, because I don't really know what happened. I don't think it's particularly biased to want to wait for the full picture from all sides before reaching a conclusion.

Though your dripping, slimy, squishy bias towards me is clearly illustrated, I'd think.

[Gan]

And remember, its not just me, who is not an acquaintance of Zimzum in any sense. Look at the other people who do know Zimzum who have been affected, and who are now coming out to speak of his guilt.

Keeping your eyes open during this would lend you much more credibility than attempting to save it from having a moderator guilty of such malfeasance.

[Gan]

Or I can lend you a foil hat so you can claim its a big CONSPIRACY against Zimzum...

[The Ponzzz]

As far as Im aware the refund was authorized by puffinmage@aol.com.

Money was sent to puffinmage@aol.com through paypal, which is known to be zimzum's paypal account.

I read it on the internet, it must be true.

I paid for the wizard and sergey paid for the wizard, 2 people bought him.

not many rumors there.

Yea, I wasn't belittling anyone, I was just saying they were unconfirmed facts at the moment.

[Alfster]

Now the question is, how secure is Psinet and what type of information could Zimzum (or any moderator) snag from it?

[The Ponzzz]

If Zimzum's story is different and he told you, Jamus, why wouldn't he clear his name here?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Now the question is, how secure is Psinet and what type of information could Zimzum (or any moderator) snag from it?>>

... you serious?

[Alfster]

Not really, just trying to stir the pot.

at least i'm honest

[JamusPsi]

Oddly enough, logs of statements from psinet have been 'dug up' before if my memory serves correctly. Odd that it doesnt happen now... Or just convenient.


OOC is logged. Private chats are not. I also edited above to indicate that in the ten minutes or so before Zimzum logged off, he was helping me alpha test an extremely unstable version of PsiNet2.


Until this morning I would have agreed with you. Evidence now clearly demonstrates the alternative.

As I said, I won't consider the statements of only one side of a conflict to be evidence.


Unwillingness to come forth and clear a good name can be evidence of guilt.
Zimzum has not been online at all in about six hours.


If Zimzum were cashing out, then I doubt a refund would have been offered at all.

If Zimzum were cashing out, I doubt he'd be starting with someone else's character. He's got plenty to sell.


I personally have information demonstrating Zimzum's intent on the contrary, as shared by Elrodin.

A good reason not to exonerate Zimzum just yet, but not really enough to fairly convict him.


LOL at vendetta. Having dealt at length in game and out of game with Elrodin I can guarantee you there was no false claim on his part, further substantiated by the fact that we now see a refund coming to him from Zimzum.

Having dealt at length in game and out of game with Zimzum I could guarantee you that there has been no false claim on his part; but I won't, because it would be as meaningless as yours. I simply don't know. If it is a misunderstanding and there was no ill intent, the refund would be a good thing.


and his lack of contrary evidence thereof.
He hasn't been online to present any. There has been NO comment.

[Bobmuhthol]

If Zimzum hasn't been online for six hours, how the fuck did he authorize a refund in the last three or four hours?

Before my post is misinterpreted: I'm saying he didn't.

[JamusPsi]

And remember, its not just me, who is not an acquaintance of Zimzum in any sense. Look at the other people who do know Zimzum who have been affected, and who are now coming out to speak of his guilt.
That's nonsensical. Nobody other than the victims has any place to say that he's done anything wrong. The fact that those people know Zimzum is lamentable, but it doesn't make them any more objective when they are the victims.


Keeping your eyes open during this would lend you much more credibility than attempting to save it from having a moderator guilty of such malfeasance.
This is a ridiculous redirection towards me. If it turns out that Zimzum has done these things intentionally, then I will be as shocked and outraged as anyone else. That doesn't reflect on my credibility- everyone trusted him.


Now the question is, how secure is Psinet and what type of information could Zimzum (or any moderator) snag from it?
Regardless of your admission, I have to answer this. Moderators have no magic outside of the specific channel they moderate. You can tune in to your own channel of any name and be a moderator on it. Moderators are not magic except that they are authoritative on the channel they moderate. They have no access to any special abilities other than those listed in the MODERATE command (silencing, banning, etc.) and being unable to be ignored on the specific channel they moderate.


If Zimzum's story is different and he told you, Jamus, why wouldn't he clear his name here?
He hasn't been online in six hours.

[CrystalTears]

Yes because if someone hasn't logged on IM, they clearly haven't been online. /sarcasm

[Back]

rofl. What a mob.

[Doughboy]

I'd love nothing more than to think it is a huge ass misunderstanding and to find out that Zimzum has had nothing to do with any of this. I really wonder why he made a new name to make the initial post on the PC, as he has posted in the past under the name "Zimzum." Or at least I believe thats what he has posted as. Only a board admin can probably tell what the IP was that created the new name. But how a different person could have used his paypal information is beyond me. I do know (after a short conversation with another person) that he is out right now playing poker somewhere, so that could well be the reason why he has yet to respond. As far as him "dodging" my and others IM's, I have no answer for that one. Who knows what the hell is happening. I guess time will tell. Jamus is correct that if Zimzum really was cashing out, he has plenty of other stuff to sell that is worth far more money than some level 47 wizard.


ramble ramble ramble ramble

[AestheticDeath]

I have his name, email, and reverse lookups to make his life hell though since I know paypal wont refund money on intangable items.

This used to be totally opposite. If you couldn't prove delivery you lost the cash you got for the sale.

When did they change over?

[JamusPsi]

Yes because if someone hasn't logged on IM, they clearly haven't been online. /sarcasm
And if someone hasn't been logged on to IM, we can assume that they HAVE BEEN and are AVOIDING EVERYONE.

GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!

[Parkbandit]

If Zimzum hasn't been online for six hours, how the fuck did he authorize a refund in the last three or four hours?

Before my post is misinterpreted: I'm saying he didn't.


...Are you serious?

[Bobmuhthol]

Yes.

[allen]

jamus eats penis, void anything that comes out of his cock-salivated mouth

[Parkbandit]

Jamus has never been accused of having the most 'upstanding' friends... some of his moderators of the past have been questionable at best.

11 pages and he's still thinking he's innocent and this is just a simple misunderstanding.

Stand by your man, Tammy.

[Parkbandit]

Yes.

Then you need to take a simple Computer class. I thought you had progressed beyond that stage... clearly I was wrong.

[Bobmuhthol]

Sorry, my education in Computer never told me how to control them without at all using them. :(

[JamusPsi]

Jamus has never been accused of having the most 'upstanding' friends... some of his moderators of the past have been questionable at best.

11 pages and he's still thinking he's innocent and this is just a simple misunderstanding.

Yeah, I've made some fucked up picks of moderators in the past. God knows. But then, I also pick them to perform a particular and thankless job in the OOC channel. For the most part, there haven't been any performance issues, even if you (or I, for that matter) may not like them overmuch.

If you carefully read my posts, you'll find that I have said several times that I don't know what happened and cannot defend Zimzum. In fact, things look pretty fucking bad.

All I've said is that it's premature to finish a trial before the defendant has walked in.

[Gan]

Zimzum has not been online at all in about six hours. How can you be positive of this. It is possible for people to be online and not have their IM up or other programs that would give an indication thereof. Unless you are 1)Zimzum and are speaking from first hand knowledge, 2)Live with Zimzum and are speaking from first hand knowledge. 3)Have Zimzum's PC bugged so you know when he's online (which may or may not be the case if he's using a different PC). That statement alone illustrates your blindness to the facts that have presented themselves here today.



If Zimzum were cashing out, I doubt he'd be starting with someone else's character. He's got plenty to sell.
My point exactly, so that is at least working in his favor even if it does lend to the theory that peer pressure has motivated him to refund the money even if he's not communicating with the parties involved in any other way.


Having dealt at length in game and out of game with Zimzum I could guarantee you that there has been no false claim on his part; but I won't, because it would be as meaningless as yours. I simply don't know. If it is a misunderstanding and there was no ill intent, the refund would be a good thing.
Quite the alternative of blocking IM's, not responding to emails, or immediately issueing an escalation when the paypal complaint was issued. Again, actions (or lack thereof) speak louder than words.



He hasn't been online to present any. There has been NO comment.
Again, you claim to have this unique ability to tell when someone who lives over 1,000 miles away from you is or is not online. Amazing.

[Skirmisher]

Yeah, I've made some fucked up picks of moderators in the past. God knows. But then, I also pick them to perform a particular and thankless job in the OOC channel. For the most part, there haven't been any performance issues, even if you (or I, for that matter) may not like them overmuch.

Instituted a draft and made them moderate at gunpoint did you?

[JamusPsi]

How can you be positive of this. It is possible for people to be online and not have their IM up or other programs that would give an indication thereof. Unless you are 1)Zimzum and are speaking from first hand knowledge, 2)Live with Zimzum and are speaking from first hand knowledge. 3)Have Zimzum's PC bugged so you know when he's online (which may or may not be the case if he's using a different PC). That statement alone illustrates your blindness to the facts that have presented themselves here today.


Has JJ stopped being online? Have you stopped beating your wife?

[JamusPsi]

Instituted a draft and made them moderate at gunpoint did you?

Actually, most of my moderators didn't ask to be moderators.

[Bobmuhthol]

WTF IS GOING ON?

[AestheticDeath]

Bisco, you say you let Zimzum borrow the wizard. Correct?

What exactly did you give him when you said, "here borrow this"

Because from what I know, you need not only the account name(which anyone can get if you post on the officials, which I hate), and you need the password, to log on. You ALSO, must have the security answer.

So did you give him this answer? Or did you use your mothers maiden name, and he being your friend knew this? Whats up with that part. I don't see how he gained sufficient control over the account to transfer the guy off.

Not to mention, how did the account get 'nuked' as you say, after you changed the account name, and password et all. No one else but Simu could have had access to that part after it was changed. And if the transfer was in process before you changed things, it should have brought up some warning flags.

[CrystalTears]

Since when do you need a security answer to log onto your character in the game? When did that start? I mean isn't that what he meant when he said he lent him the character? To just play him? I doubt he transferred the account itself to him.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Not to mention, how did the account get 'nuked' as you say, after you changed the account name, and password et all. No one else but Simu could have had access to that part after it was changed. And if the transfer was in process before you changed things, it should have brought up some warning flags.>>

I thought it was pretty clear from what Bisco said that Simutronics was directly responsible for this, as his new account named stopped working. He didn't blame anyone for that.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I doubt he transferred the account itself to him.>>

Giving access to the account is pretty much transferring it, for all intents and purposes.

It certainly led to a takeover of the account.

[Doughboy]

Bisco, you say you let Zimzum borrow the wizard. Correct?

What exactly did you give him when you said, "here borrow this"

Because from what I know, you need not only the account name(which anyone can get if you post on the officials, which I hate), and you need the password, to log on. You ALSO, must have the security answer.

Yes he used the character while I was not playing.



So did you give him this answer? Or did you use your mothers maiden name, and he being your friend knew this? Whats up with that part. I don't see how he gained sufficient control over the account to transfer the guy off.

No, I never give out my security questions or answers. No, my mothers maiden name is not the security question. If it was, he does not know my mother, father, other relatives, recent sexual partners, etc etc etc...



Not to mention, how did the account get 'nuked' as you say, after you changed the account name, and password et all. No one else but Simu could have had access to that part after it was changed. And if the transfer was in process before you changed things, it should have brought up some warning flags.

Alex answered this for you.

[Doughboy]

<<I doubt he transferred the account itself to him.>>

Giving access to the account is pretty much transferring it, for all intents and purposes.

It certainly led to a takeover of the account.

More than likely you're correct. Although that would kind of defeat the purpose of a security question. Mind you when you let a good friend play a character you really don't think about that. I knew Zimzum for several years before he ever logged into one of my characters.

[AestheticDeath]

Since when do you need a security answer to log onto your character in the game? When did that start? I mean isn't that what he meant when he said he lent him the character? To just play him? I doubt he transferred the account itself to him.

You misunderstood what I said, mainly because I cannot properly articulate my points.

What I meant was more along the lines of: you need the account name and password to login, and in addition you need the security answer to be able to change any billing information. That or the first and last four digits of the CC.

[Ignot]

It was Proffesor Plum with the candle stick.

[AestheticDeath]

I may stand corrected. Someone mentioned to me, that you can change the billing information via the website, without the normal information needed over the phone. From the looks of it, unless there is a second page asking for a password, you can do this.

So if you loaned the account to the guy 2-3 months ago, and he changed the billing method online, he could have recently changed the security answer fairly easily.

When did you loan the account to the guy?

As far as the 'nuking' thing. I understand Simu is the one who must have done it,thats why I said as much. What I don't understand is why? The account which you renamed should still exist in some fashion. You should be able to goto the SGE or the website, put in the account name, and the password, and it will say it has a billing error if its closed, but it it doesnt exist like I am understanding from the 'nuke' comment, it would say invalid UserID specified.

As I reread what I asked eariler, the question was more along the lines of, how did the character still get transferred, if you changed the account information? And since the account info was changed, assumably while the character was still on it - why didnt the transfer department notice that something odd had changed on the account, and the relevant info to transfer the character is no longer correct?

[softheart]

You can change the billing info on the net if you can log into the account....but you can also put other securities onto your account to where it cant be done just from the internet....I had to when someone got all my info from me...now the only way to change billing or anything to my accounts is I have to call them and know all the right answers....

[Drew]

Yeah, in general if you have the name and password you can take over the account from the website pretty easily. This is why I don't let ANYONE use my account.

[Doughboy]

but it it doesnt exist like I am understanding from the 'nuke' comment, it would say invalid UserID specified.


Ding ding ding you've got it

[GS4Clagg]

Wow.

You may want to check your credit card info as well. May have been able to gain access to your number.

[Xaerve]

Wow.

You may want to check your credit card info as well. May have been able to gain access to your number.

No.

[Anebriated]

if anything he would have only picked up the last 4 digits, generally they will show them so you can tell which card you used, but those digits also help you with account changes.

[Anebriated]

Just wanted to put this out there.

May 8, 2007 Seller Refund initiated
May 7, 2007 PayPal Email sent to seller
May 7, 2007 PayPal Email sent to buyer
May 7, 2007 Seller Dispute escalated to claim
May 7, 2007 PayPal Email sent to seller
May 7, 2007 PayPal Email sent to buyer
May 7, 2007 Buyer Dispute file


It was Zim(assuming thats who it is) that initiated the refund for what its worth.

[Jolena]

I'm a bit shocked, to be honest. JJ has always been very cool, and I knew that he had put up Bisco's wizard for sale because I heard Bisco talking about it on PsiNet, but I thought it was a friendly joke. Never would I have imagined he'd take someone's money and rip them off like that.

I'm really sorry, Elrodin (And Bisco since this is affecting you too), and hope you see justice in the matter.

[AestheticDeath]

Ding ding ding you've got it

See that doesn't make sense to me.

[Augie]

I'm definitely baffled over all of this. I got home from work today at 6pm and got a phone call from someone going "WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH ZIMZUM!?" and I was like huh? Came here and read the thread and then called up Bisco to figure what was going on.

All I can say is that this doesn't seem like JJ at all, so I really have no clue wtf is up. I was talking to him earlier in the day and he didn't say anything about this.

I hope that this all sorts itself out and turns out to be a big misunderstanding. Major kudos to Sergey for returning the wizard and sorry this happened Bisco :(

[Anebriated]

I'm a bit shocked, to be honest. JJ has always been very cool, and I knew that he had put up Bisco's wizard for sale because I heard Bisco talking about it on PsiNet, but I thought it was a friendly joke. Never would I have imagined he'd take someone's money and rip them off like that.

I'm really sorry, Elrodin (And Bisco since this is affecting you too), and hope you see justice in the matter.

Thanks, I am in the process of seeing justice and its looking hopeful for Bisco from what I can tell. Again, sorry for the hassle its caused Bisco, shitty situation. I hope in the end its all a big misunderstanding but there is a party missing still.

[Doughboy]

Time will tell.

[Latrinsorm]

Unwillingness to come forth and clear a good name can be evidence of guilt.I've been away from the computer since 2:30 and I'm a gigantic nerd. It doesn't seem too unreasonable to suppose Zimzum wasn't hanging out on PsiNet or the PC for a longer period.

I liked how you used the phrase "facts have presented themselves", though, it really makes it sound magnificently objective.

[Skeeter]

I'm definitely baffled over all of this. I got home from work today at 6pm and got a phone call from someone going "WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH ZIMZUM!?" and I was like huh? Came here and read the thread and then called up Bisco to figure what was going on.

All I can say is that this doesn't seem like JJ at all, so I really have no clue wtf is up. I was talking to him earlier in the day and he didn't say anything about this.

I hope that this all sorts itself out and turns out to be a big misunderstanding. Major kudos to Sergey for returning the wizard and sorry this happened Bisco :(

because he's just going to come right out and say, hey I decided to fuck a few people straight in the ass today. I'll let you know how it plays out.

[Gan]

Has JJ stopped being online? Have you stopped beating your wife?

Excuse me?

I would like to applaud you for stupid statement of the year in the attempt to make a point.

:clap:

[Gan]

I've been away from the computer since 2:30 and I'm a gigantic nerd. It doesn't seem too unreasonable to suppose Zimzum wasn't hanging out on PsiNet or the PC for a longer period.

I liked how you used the phrase "facts have presented themselves", though, it really makes it sound magnificently objective.

Thanks Latrin. Your contribution is as stellar as always.

[Skeeter]

At least he didn't break out one of his mis-used metaphors

[Latrinsorm]

Latrinsorming is so clunky, there must be some better word. Latrifying? Sorming it up?

[Gan]

I would humbly like to submit:

Latrinosis

Latrineification

[Celephais]

Latrinsorming is so clunky, there must be some better word. Latrifying? Sorming it up?

Nah, it's pretty smooth if you just fudge how you read it, I read it as "Latrine-storming".

[Gan]

Latrine-storming: read - shit storming.

:lol:

[StrayRogue]

I love the Player's Corner.

Carry on.

[Sean of the Thread]

because he's just going to come right out and say, hey I decided to fuck a few people straight in the ass today.

Leave Jamus out of this please.

[Gan]

Objective 1: Get refund sent to Elrodin: Accomplished

Objective 2: Get Bisco his wizard back: Accomplished

Objective 3: Get refund sent to Sergey: In progress


2 down and 1 to go. Good work PC.

[mgoddess]

Nah, it's pretty smooth if you just fudge how you read it, I read it as "Latrine-storming".

This is actually how my mind first read it... and then I had to go look at his name to see if it actually had a "t" in there or not. *snicker*

[Alfster]

It's not that funny

[crb]

yes, the money was sent to his paypal account. If you guys know him, talk to him please. Ill happily delete the thread if he just returns the money. I know(now) that the wizard doesnt even belong to him. Im not worried about that. I have his name, email, and reverse lookups to make his life hell though since I know paypal wont refund money on intangable items.

Paypal's buyer's protection is a joke anyways.

Never pay for anything through paypal with your paypal balance, or with a checking account transfer. Paypal will lie and bullshit you and tell you its safe, but only use your credit card.

Paypal takes a innocent until proven guilty approach. If you cannot prove the seller ripped you off with tangible signed receipts etc, they rule against you.

All credit card companies do the opposite, they put the onus of proof on the seller. If they cannot prove they delivered something to you, you get your money back.

I think Paypal should be sued for all the bullshit they publish saying they protect you more if you don't pay with a credit card. They know they don't and they're just trying to avoid getting screwed by CC companies.

[Trouble]

Paypal's buyer's protection is a joke anyways.

Never pay for anything through paypal with your paypal balance, or with a checking account transfer. Paypal will lie and bullshit you and tell you its safe, but only use your credit card.

So using a credit card through Paypal is ok then? just want to clarify...

[Sean of the Thread]

So using a credit card through Paypal is ok then? just want to clarify...

I do all the time. I've only charged back once but there was no problem doing so.

[Xaerve]

I only pay with a CC through Paypal for the exact reasons crb laid out.

[Xaerve]

In other news...

O.J. tossed from steakhouse on Derby eve
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070509/ap_on_en_ot/people_simpson



By BETH CAMPBELL, Associated Press WriterWed May 9, 12:48 AM ET

The owner of an upscale steakhouse in Louisville said he asked O.J. Simpson to leave his restaurant the night before the Kentucky Derby because he is sickened by the attention Simpson still attracts.

"I didn't want to serve him because of my convictions of what he's done to those families," Jeff Ruby said in a telephone interview Tuesday. "The way he continues to torture the lives of those families ... with his behavior, attitude and conduct."

Simpson, an NFL Hall of Famer and Heisman Trophy winner, was found innocent in 1995 of killing his ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, and Ron Goldman but was found liable in a civil trial that followed.

Ruby — who owns restaurants in Cincinnati, Louisville and Belterra, Ind. — said Simpson, who was in town for the Derby on Saturday, came in with a group of about 12 Friday night and was seated at a table in the back. A customer came up to Ruby and was "giddy" about seeing Simpson, Ruby said.

"I didn't want that experience in my restaurant," Ruby said, later adding that seeing Simpson get so much attention "makes me sick to my stomach."

He said he went to Simpson's table and said, "I'm not serving you." Ruby said when Simpson didn't respond, he repeated himself and left the room.

Ruby said Simpson soon came up to him and said he understood and would gather the rest of his party to leave.

Simpson's attorney, Yale Galanter, said the incident was about race, and he intended to pursue the matter and possibly go after the restaurant's liquor license.

"He screwed with the wrong guy, he really did," Galanter said by telephone Tuesday night.

Ruby said the incident had to do with Simpson's past.

"It was the first time since 1994 he has ever shown any class," Ruby said. "He showed it that night in the restaurant" by leaving quietly.

Ruby said after Simpson left, people in the restaurant started applauding him. He said he has received about 100 positive e-mails since the incident.

The walls of Ruby's restaurants are decorated with celebrity photos. A photo of Simpson and Ruby used to be on display, but Ruby said he took it down after the killings.

[CrystalTears]

More like "and now for something completely different" since it has nothing to do with the thread. Weirdo.

[Celephais]

More like "and now for something completely different" since it has nothing to do with the thread. Weirdo.

... all the white bronco comments. Because of all the "Zimzum is only running away because he's innocent" type stuff.

There is a link... it's weak... but I'm all for thread tangents.

[Kainen]

2 down and 1 to go. Good work PC.


Ok reality check here.. what makes you think PC had ANYTHING to do with ANY of that? In all honesty PC is just a bunch of people posting thier opinions on a message board. Ignoring PC is as easy as not opening this site and reading the threads. Not many people are really afraid of an online lynch mob :lol:

[Parkbandit]

In
Simpson's attorney, Yale Galanter, said the incident was about race, and he intended to pursue the matter and possibly go after the restaurant's liquor license.



OMG! OJ IS BLACK, SO IT HAS TO BE THE REASON! It can't be because he's a revolting sub human being.


I really, really hope Yale Galanter pursue this through the legal system.

[Xaerve]

More like "and now for something completely different" since it has nothing to do with the thread. Weirdo.

What Celephais said. I thought it was funny that O.J. randomly appeared in the news today, meh.

[StrayRogue]

Even if everything is resolved, Zimzum is still a fucking cocklord for starting all this.

And I do think the PC has something to do with it. I'd say our community here has an effect on the game. It's most certainly the largest non-official forum community out there. It's also no hold's barred, unlike the officials. If you fuck up in game, and we hear about it, it's gonna get posted and opinions will fly. Especially in this case, where a fellow poster has been fucked, there is going to be an uproar.

[Alfster]

As scary as it is, I agree with Stray.

[Doughboy]

cocklord...I've gotta remember that one.

[Gan]

Ok reality check here.. what makes you think PC had ANYTHING to do with ANY of that? In all honesty PC is just a bunch of people posting thier opinions on a message board. Ignoring PC is as easy as not opening this site and reading the threads. Not many people are really afraid of an online lynch mob :lol:


Even if everything is resolved, Zimzum is still a fucking cocklord for starting all this.

And I do think the PC has something to do with it. I'd say our community here has an effect on the game. It's most certainly the largest non-official forum community out there. It's also no hold's barred, unlike the officials. If you fuck up in game, and we hear about it, it's gonna get posted and opinions will fly. Especially in this case, where a fellow poster has been fucked, there is going to be an uproar.

Stray pretty much stated my thoughts, but I'll add this to the mix.

If you ever pay attention to how some people play the game as well as interact on psinet/ooc you'll notice that some tend to stand out as 'popular' or 'attention whores'. This reflects a certain status that has been achieved, either willingly or unwillingly. In the positive sense, Zimzum is a popular player/character both in game and on psinet/ooc. That means not only is his character popular, but also the person behind it. There is a cost that is associated with such 'status'. And that is the cost of public opinion as it relates to that 'status'. So, thinking along those lines...

1. Zimzum, after seeing the uproar and attention his actions received here on the PC first hand, or with even greater influence as mentioned in the social circles his player and character interact while in game or on psinet/ooc, was faced with a decision. That decision being either refuting/defending his actions OR disappearing and not responding in hopes that it will die down.

2. Now add to this peer pressure influence brought about by people spreading the word and participating in the PC thread, and all of a sudden Zimzum is the talk of the moment, and not in a good way. Furthermore, add to that the instance where people, whom he has personally befriended and gained their trust, which also based upon that trust, have granted him access to special things such as account access, etc.. When these people see this thread, see what has been discussed and said by those who play/interact with Zimzum in game as well as those who interact with him outside of game, and they start calling him on the phone wanting to know whats up...

3. In addition to the previously mentioned 2 peer pressure influences, you also have an open forum for discovery. When this thread was started, the only crime known of was the theft of funds from Elrodin. Eventually it was also uncovered that the wizard for sale was also moved off of the owners account, unwillingly and unknowingly, and finally towards that same afternoon, it was then discovered - again through this thread's participation - that someone else was solicited to for the sale and they had indeed bought it.

4. Now, even with all the discovery, communication, and peer pressure realized over the course of about 12 hours, we have seen a refund of funds to the original complainant by the very person who was supposedly offline and away from the computer all day. Furthermore we have also seen a return of the character from the person who bought the stolen goods unknowingly to the original owner (who turned out to be the 2nd victim in order of the thread posts). This is a direct coorelation of two very positive outcomes!

5. So with all that said, and with all the people speaking out against such behavior, here on the PC as well as in game and on psinet, we have seen action and results. And in addition to that we have seen a thief's name exposed within the very community in which he invests his time and escape from the real world in. So in that exposure and through this open thread of discussion, other people who also have entrusted Zimzum to have access to their account/investments, have been forwarned and given an opportunity to protect themselves accordingly.

And what motivation on Zimzum's part has there been in making the initial refund? To protect what reputation he has left in the game. As I mentioned earlier, if Zim was cashing out, then we would have seen other things/characters liquidated and probably would have never seen a refund to Elrodin. BUT because of the fact that Zimzum still retains his investment in items and characters means the refund was motivated by an attempt to restore his reputation and maintain a tenuous grasp on the enjoyment he finds in existing in Gemstone and on psinet.

This is why I listed the 3rd objective of getting Sergey's money returned as well. Zimzum's attempt at saving face is not yet complete, and the people of the Gemstone community (who also are in part the PC community) should not let him off the hook until he returns Sergey's funds. If Zimzum chooses an attempt to explain his actions, then so be it. However, his decision to remain silent in this matter, even as more evidence comes to light, is not the right decision if he wants to continue status quo existence and continue to 'enjoy' playing gemstone with others who might want to play with him. It will also bear a large impact should he ever choose to liquidate any of his own posessions/characters should he try to recoup his investment in time and effort into them.

[CrystalTears]

Someone get Ganalon some PC pom-poms.

[Kainen]

Someone get Ganalon some PC pom-poms.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Gan]

Thanks CT! :fish:

The sole reason why I encouraged Elrodin to start the thread was because a) I thought it would be a great tool in order to fix the wrong done to him, and I go to bat for friends; and b) People here on the PC rock, and I knew that through this medium we could get to the bottom of it and find some sort of remedy.

[CrystalTears]

Go Ganalon! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/smilies/cheer.gif

[Gan]

Go Ganalon! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/smilies/cheer.gif

No, GO PC! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Jemah/smilies/cheer.gif

Its not like I did anything to make it happen except open my big yap and type some words into a keyboard.

[Drinin]

OMG! OJ IS BLACK, SO IT HAS TO BE THE REASON! It can't be because he's a revolting sub human being.


I really, really hope Yale Galanter pursue this through the legal system.

Race, hah. I heard on the local news here that before he threw OJ out he gave Michael Jordan a table.

[Sean of the Thread]

Race, hah. I heard on the local news here that before he threw OJ out he gave Michael Jordan a table.

HUH?

[Lomoriond]

HUH?

I thought the same thing... get out of my mind!

Douche!

~L - Kidding... or am I?

[TheEschaton]

IT"S NOT POSSIBEL, HE R A RACIST!!!!!!111

-TheE-

[Gan]

Any updates on this?

Sergey get his money back?

Anyone seen Zimzum in game?

[GS4-Brimzstone]

haven't seen Zim log in since this incident

[Anebriated]

My refund is still pending.

[Augie]

haven't seen Zim log in since this incident

Zimzum's been in game since this all happened.

[Gan]

Zimzum's been in game since this all happened.

Any response to whats been going on from him?

Or is he pretending that its never happened?

[Gan]

Guess not

[Parkbandit]

IT"S NOT POSSIBEL, HE R A RACIST!!!!!!111

-TheE-


Innocent until proven guilty.

To prove guilt, you would have to make sure he's never served another black man.

Since he sat Michael Jordon (who happens to be black) at the table 5 minutes after OJ left.. I think that blows your case out of the water.

[TheEschaton]

Apparently I forgot to put my 1337 haxx0r speak in italics.

-TheE-

[Gan]

Get your shit straight.

[Parkbandit]

Apparently I forgot to put my 1337 haxx0r speak in italics.

-TheE-

I got the sarcasm.. I just read it as there is no way Ruby couldn't possibly be a racist.

[Skirmisher]

So has Zimzum taken the time to tell anyone that this was not him or that this was some misunderstanding?

[Gan]

I heard rumor that he was on one night this weekend, making claims of suing someone. (not naming the name so as not to perpetuate the rumor).

But other than that, no one seems to offer up any viable alternative explanation, not even ZimZum, not even from the crowd who appeared earlier in the thread in his defense.

Actions speak louder than words in my opinion.

[StrayRogue]

What a fucking bastard.

[Martaigne]

As much as I detest OOC bleed, has anyone attempted to contact him IN game?

[Anebriated]

Figure ill add a bit more detail that i just recieved today. Someone IM'd me today and said that zim had logged in drunk on his birthday. During which time they talked about what happened and the person relayed the story to me. Heres what I understand from it, its all secondhand though.

Apparently he has 2 wizards of his own on seperate accounts that he was selling. So he was apparently selling 2 seperate wizards.

He claimed that he emailed me the information to one account, which I never received.

He said he has Simu's backing on the fact the accounts belonged to him and the paper work to prove it.

Said he intends on taking GSAuctions.com and myself to small claims court. Says we have wrecked his rep as a merchant and have caused financial loss on his end.

Now, I dont know how he intends to do all this and figure it was just him being a drunktard, but thats what was told to me this morning/afternoon.


edit: yes, I have tried contacting him in game, he logged off shortly after(according to Jamus he was testing the new PSInet around that time that might have required a reboot) and he never came back.

[Jolena]

Out of curiousity, what would be the basis for taking you to small claims court? I mean, you paid for a character and didn't receive it. You got a refund. Done deal, isn't it? Seems odd.

[Anebriated]

Just edited that in as you posted.

[Gan]

A simple "I fucked up, was drunk, etc. " post, explaining what happened, and then a refund to those he owes money too would be a huge start in regaining some credibility.

Of course it doesnt explain:


Why he tried to sell Bisco's wizard.
Why he did not return Elrodin's communication requests (Emails, IM's, OOC chats, etc.)
Why he flipped the same wizard to Sergey after the deal with Elrodin wasnt consumated.
Why he immediately escalated the Paypal complaint of Elrodin's.
Why he has not attempted to defend himself or his actions.
Why he finally submitted a refund through Paypal to Elrodin (which is still pending...)
Why he has not attempted any resolution with Sergey (assuming Sergey would update this thread if an attempt was made).**Small claims court... ROFL. On what basis? The only thing he might be able to do is go after libel/slander, providing he can proove all the claims made against him are false. If anything, Elrodin and Sergey have grounds to go after him for internet fraud.

[beer]

d o u c h e

[DeV]

Says we have wrecked his rep as a merchant and have caused financial loss on his end.
He's done a fine job of that all by himself.

[AestheticDeath]

Even if he did take it to court, gsauctions.com hasnt said/done anything against him at this point. And Sergeys comments from what i recall - not having loked back right this second, didn't seem to be slanderous at all.

And Elrodin seems to have had every right to claim what he has claimed up to this point.

Its everyone else that seems to be doing the slandering and name calling.
And its got alot to do with him not saying anything. So its pretty much his fault. Hes just going to waste everyones money if he takes it to court.

[Bobmuhthol]

Of course what Sergey said wasn't slanderous; you can't write slander.

[AestheticDeath]

slander/libel who gives a fuck - add something constructive, and stop trolling boy

[Bobmuhthol]

No.

[The Ponzzz]

Sadly, virtual sales will never hold up in court. And he REFUNED the money via paypal so, what's to sue about?

Own up for your mistakes is how I see it.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Sadly, virtual sales will never hold up in court.>>

I forget if there's United States precedent, but virtual sales have been the basis of many a court case.

[Gan]

There...

Made an entry for zimzum in the psinet library.

?zimzum

Lets see how long it lasts...

[Kainen]

There...

Made an entry for zimzum in the psinet library.

?zimzum

Lets see how long it lasts...

You know.. I don't think Jamus intended the psinet library for things like that. And since you are doing shit like that.. why not for Tsin.. since he has supposedly screwed way more people.

[Bobmuhthol]

?ariond suggests otherwise, though I don't have access to PsiNet to be able to read the entry.

[Anebriated]

?ariond
You focus your mind and search for "ariond" on the PsiNet Library.

The PsiNet Library sent you the latest copy of this article:

[=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=]
Article "Ariond" [AID #660]

==== Edit By Jamus ====

I've had it with the constant strife. It has become a drain and a hassle for me.

From what I can see, most (not all) of the people who hate Ariond have no real reason to, they have simply joined in on the hate-fest that OOC has largely become. It is trendy to dislike Mike. (The ignore count on Mike is HIGHLY unrepresentative; upon further inspection, a few very angry people ignored him on many dozens of characters.)

Mike is also a very difficult person to get along with sometimes, and he can be rude and inconsiderate to specific people when they say or do things he disagrees with. However, ON THE WHOLE, I do not believe that Mike instigates the majority of the conflicts he is involved in.

Yes, I like Mike. However, I have banned people I liked before. I do not not ban Mike because he sucks up to me. He doesn't suck up to me. Rather, I don't believe he has done anything wrong. I do not believe he is Intentionally Disruptive, which is the guiding principle of PsiNet's policy.

There is no doubt the chaos surrounding him has become disruptive, however, and I cannot imagine that I am the only one who thinks so.

This needs to stop.

Therefore I am calling on everyone, but most especially Mike, to take this conflict to a medium that will not impact everyone as a whole. What this means is that if you have a standing problem with Mike, deal with it in another channel or in private chats. If Mike has a standing problem with you, he will do the same thing.

I am under no illusions about how effective that alone will be. If you believe that Mike is "Being unnecessarily and repeatedly combative" per the PSINET POLICY, please copy the relevant bits, including the beginning of the conflict so that I can see that Mike was not merely responding to someone else's chastising, but actually instigating conflict, and use PSINET MAIL to mail it to me, or email it to psinet@psinet.dynalias.net.

If it becomes apparent that Mike is, in fact, making a nuisance of himself, I will take further action. If you cannot bring yourself to take your existing conflicts with himself elsewhere, I will have very little sympathy for what he says in response to you. I am asking my moderators to make use of the MODERATE SEPARATE command as a warning to both Ariond and his increasingly vehement fanclub before taking further action.

It has to stop. It's poisonous. Take it elsewhere or let it go, and if you think that Mike is actually instigating the problem, prove it. From what I can see, there are no innocent parties, except the uninvolved.

Jamus

SEE ALSO ?ariond2 (Mike's original ?ariond response.)
[=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=]

[Alfster]

I'm going to sue you fuckers!

[Gan]

There...

Made an entry for zimzum in the psinet library.

?zimzum

Lets see how long it lasts...

:rofl:

Its already been modified.

Truly sad.

[Kainen]

:)

[StrayRogue]

You know it doesn't suprise me that these idiots are still supporting this moron. I mean seriously, how much evidence do you need before you go "doh, he might actually have tried to rip a bunch of people off"?

[The Ponzzz]

morons don't sue!! I heard it on TV. It's true!

[Gan]

You know it doesn't suprise me that these idiots are still supporting this moron. I mean seriously, how much evidence do you need before you go "doh, he might actually have tried to rip a bunch of people off"?

Some people are blind until it happens to them I suppose.

[CrystalTears]

What's with the name dropping and citing his real name in there like that? Can't just call him Ariond? God I hate that.

[Gan]

What's with the name dropping and citing his real name in there like that? Can't just call him Ariond? God I hate that.

Name dropping gives the poster a false sense of authority and or priveledge.


"He knows my name! He knows my name!"

[Gan]

Speaking of names. I was listening to psinet while in game last night and I kept hearing repeated requests by people about how 'JJ' was doing and why wasnt he around much anymore.

It strikes me funny that they wont use the name Zimzum when asking about him in public.

[StrayRogue]

Who cares about a drunk thief?

[Slark]

Speaking of names. I was listening to psinet while in game last night and I kept hearing repeated requests by people about how 'JJ' was doing and why wasnt he around much anymore.

It strikes me funny that they wont use the name Zimzum when asking about him in public.

Zimzum is almost always referred to as 'JJ' on psinet - regardless of how or why that started, you can safely assume it has nothing to do with this event.

The idea of taking someone to court over something like this really makes me laugh, I can only imagine what the judge would think.

[Gan]

Zimzum is almost always referred to as 'JJ' on psinet - regardless of how or why that started, you can safely assume it has nothing to do with this event.

Ahh, interesting. I stand corrected in assuming that it was anything other than what it is. Res Ipsa Loquitur.



The idea of taking someone to court over something like this really makes me laugh, I can only imagine what the judge would think.

Well, the slander/libel based on the premise that it hurt future business transactions of a Gemstone character/item aftermarket (al la Tsin) is very laughable. Especially when said business has no proof of being established or successfully existing sufficiently enough to demonstrate a negative impact upon.


However, the premise of taking someone to court based on fraud can be a very real matter. In fact, on the FTC's statement prepared on Internet Fraud, the very first of the top 10 internet scams listed in their briefing was Internet Auction Fraud. (http://www.ftc.gov/os/2001/05/internetfraudttmy.htm (http://www.ftc.gov/os/2001/05/internetfraudttmy.htm))



Data from the IFCC, the Federal Trade Commission, and Internet Fraud Watch (a project of the non-profit National Consumers League) show that fraud involving the use of online auctions is by far the most frequently reported type of Internet fraud. The IFCC, for example, reports that more than 64 percent of all referred complaints involved online auctions. http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/usamay2001_1.htm

What is really interesting is that this action occurred across state lines since Elrodin does not live in the same state as Zimzum, and the same might be true with Sergey and Zimzum. Does that mean that a federal statute could have been violated?
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001341----000-.html (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001341----000-.html)

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001343----000-.html (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001343----000-.html)

Not to mention any state code violations that might have occurred in Florida and in the home states of Elrodin and Sergey.

Some might shrug it off, but theft is no laughing matter.

[Stanley Burrell]

I swear to God you had better drop a countersuit from the fiery hell of Al Pacino's devil advocating infernal prosecuting office if paperwork actually reaches you after all this.

That's absolutely ridiculous. I had to do a double take on this one.

[Kainen]

That's absolutely ridiculous. I had to do a double take on this one.


He's basing this on "he said/she said" second hand info. There's no proof that I have seen that says Zim is going to file any lawsuit.

[Gan]

He's basing this on "he said/she said" second hand info. There's no proof that I have seen that says Zim is going to file any lawsuit.

/Agreed

I did not witness this being said on psinet during Zimzum's late night appearance, as it was claimed by someone else... which is at best secondhand knowledge (hearsay).

However, it was also worth mentioning in discussing the legal rammifications of whats taken place with this issue thus far.

[Kainen]

/Agreed

I did not witness this being said on psinet during Zimzum's late night appearance, as it was claimed by someone else... which is at best secondhand knowledge (hearsay).

However, it was also worth mentioning in discussing the legal rammifications of whats taken place with this issue thus far.

And why is that?

[Gan]

Why shouldnt it be discussed?

**Oh wait, thats right, this is a bulliten board, where people post things so they can be fucking discussed.

[Gan]

OR.... We should all just pretend this never happend.


Riiiiiight.

[Kainen]

Aren't you getting just a LITTLE defensive? I don't see where I said ANY of that :)

[Gan]

Aren't you getting just a LITTLE defensive? I don't see where I said ANY of that :)

Not really. :)

[Kainen]

Why shouldnt it be discussed?

**Oh wait, thats right, this is a bulliten board, where people post things so they can be fucking discussed.

OR.... We should all just pretend this never happend.


Riiiiiight.


So what would you call that? Being a jerk, instead?

[Gan]

So what would you call that? Being a jerk, instead?

I suppose its a matter of perception. What would your response have been to the question you posed?

[Kainen]

I suppose its a matter of perception. What would your response have been to the question you posed?


I would have given a reason why I thought it should be discussed.

[Skirmisher]

He's basing this on "he said/she said" second hand info. There's no proof that I have seen that says Zim is going to file any lawsuit.

As any log could have been fabricated I'm not sure what sort of proof outside of someone's reputation could be offered up.

The PC may not be the be all and end all of the Gemstone universe but neither is it not known and he surely has heard of these allegations. One would think if they were false it would be relatively simple to at least say that much.

Friends of his have taken the time to say some words in his defense it just is confusing as to why such a similarly minimal investment of time and energy has not been made by he himself to set the record straight.

[CrystalTears]

Heh, would you want to come here and say anything after all of this?

[Gan]

I would have given a reason why I thought it should be discussed.

Why, when its purely self explanitory?