Tipping etiquette

[Stretch]

$200 Bordeaux, $120 food

What would be an appropriate tip?

We ended up leaving $40, but I can't decide whether or not that was too little.

My initial reasoning: restaurant probably already makes a decent amount on the mark up of the wine, and not a whole lot of effort was needed to pour it or anything.

[Celephais]

I thought you were asian? You left a tip?

[Keller]

I thought you were asian? You left a tip?

ROFL!

So glad I don't serve anymore.

[Stretch]

Asians don't leave tips?

I thought the stereotype was that senior citizens, teenagers, and black people were bad tippers.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<My initial reasoning: restaurant probably already makes a decent amount on the mark up of the wine,>>

The waiter also owns the restaurant?

To me, the 12.5% is low unless the service wasn't good. If there was nothing to complain about, $60 would've been more appropriate.

[Xaerve]

You order the wine, you pay the tip. If you're being that frugal, in my opinion, then you have no business buying a 200$ wine. I eat out at nice restaurants very frequently (5-8 times a month) for work and pleasure. I never tip less than 20% if the service is great.

No offense Stretch, but I've always valued the hard work that waiters put into the service. Was that extra 20$ (you should have tipped) really that bad? I'd assume not if you can afford a 200$ bottle of wine.

[Celephais]

Asians don't leave tips?

I thought the stereotype was that senior citizens, teenagers, and black people were bad tippers.

The nice thing about stereotypes is you can just make them up to suit your purpose. Personally I feel the way Mr. Pink does about tipping (I do tip 20%, but I absolutey hate that I do).

But yeah the waiter likely got all indignant after you left, thinking you tipped them poorly (not realizing how little work was actually done for that $40, and it's the same work the people in chili's did for $10).

[Keller]

Asians don't leave tips?

I thought the stereotype was that senior citizens, teenagers, and black people were bad tippers.

Being 100% honest . . . everyone except 30-50 year old white people suck at tipping. There are exceptions, but not too many.

My experience might have been scewed as 50% of the asians I served weren't Americans.

[Celephais]

No offense Stretch, but I've always valued the hard work that waiters put into the service.

I'm curious, is it harder work to carry a $200 bottle of wine than a $100 bottle of win?

Tipping via percent is retarded and as a society we need to stop.

Increase the price of all of the food, increase their wages, and make tipping a "only if it was really good service leave whatever you want" kind of deal.

[Xaerve]

not realizing how little work was actually done for that $40, and it's the same work the people in chili's did for $10

You know nothing about nice restaurants, I take it?

[Sean of the Thread]

People at chili's did more imo.

I leave 20%.

[ElanthianSiren]

I never tip less than 20% if the service is...

good. I'm with you on waiters and hard work. If I'm going to bother to eat out, and I don't often because I want an entire nutritional list of what's in what I eat usually, I figure making someone's day with a good tip is a nice thing to do, especially if he's hot.

[Celephais]

You know nothing about nice restaurants, I take it?

I know shit about restaurants. I do know that if I'm in a joint and I order a cheap bottle of wine it's not any easier for the waiter to pour me my drink.

[Lomoriond]

20% is a pretty blanket application even with pricey wine, but I never ever tip more than 50% of the cost of the food itself....

Waiters at fancy restaurants have (usually) worked hard to get and stay there, so I only stiff em if they are snotty little punks... In the same thread, I'll tip 30 or 40% to a really really good waiter at an Ihop, because I know they are the ones who have trouble making their tips add up in the end.

[Celephais]

Nice Guy Eddie: C'mon, throw in a buck!

Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don't tip.

Nice Guy Eddie: You don't tip?

Mr. Pink: I don't believe in it.

Nice Guy Eddie: You don't believe in tipping?

Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make shit.

Mr. Pink: Don't give me that. She don't make enough money, she can quit.

Nice Guy Eddie: I don't even know a fucking Jew who'd have the balls to say that. Let me get this straight: you never ever tip, huh?

Mr. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. Alright, I tip when somebody really deserves a tip. If they put forth an effort, I'll give them something extra. But I mean, this tipping automatically, that's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned they're just doing their job.

Mr. Blue: Hey, this girl was nice.

Mr. Pink: She was okay. But she wasn't anything special.

Mr. Blue: What's special? Take you in the back and suck your dick?

Nice Guy Eddie: I'd go over twelve percent for that.

[Ignot]

Is 20% the norm? I usually leave 15% but we never go out to nice resteraunts. Im also Jewish so that may explain my cheapness.

[Xaerve]

I'm curious, is it harder work to carry a $200 bottle of wine than a $100 bottle of win?

Tipping via percent is retarded and as a society we need to stop.

Increase the price of all of the food, increase their wages, and make tipping a "only if it was really good service leave whatever you want" kind of deal.


I personally think that a service-oriented job is best "checked" by a tipping mechanism. The logic of your argument is all flawed. If the price was baseline, then there would be no incentive for over-the-top service.

When I go into a nice restaurant and have several questions about the esoteric items on the menu and what wine would pair best with my course, I expect a well-informed answer, an answer that "some waiter" at Chilli's is not trained to give.

Also, unless Stretch just drastically overpaid for that 200$ bottle of wine, then yes, its a lot harder to carry a 200$ bottle of wine than a 100$ bottle. (See comment above).

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I'm curious, is it harder work to carry a $200 bottle of wine than a $100 bottle of win?>>

It's harder to get the job carrying a $200 bottle than to get the job carrying a $100 bottle. Much like it's harder to get the job of CEO than it is to get the job of Mail Room Clerk. The difference in income reflects this.

[Miss X]

I don't tip that often and I really don't like the concept. If people are paid a fair wage then there is no need for tipping, so we should focus our energy on getting the minimum wage increased rather than forcing people to rely on tips.

I will only tip if there's genuinely something outstanding about the service. Example, I had my hair cut yesterday and everyone in the salon was lovely, the hairdresser gave me a really blunt honest opinion on my hair style and the colour/cut she did is fabulous. I was totally happy to tip her because it's the best haircut Ive ever had.

What annoys me most is, I run around like a headless chicken Monday-Friday visiting my patients, sometimes spending an hour sorting out a wound or setting up IV drugs etc. I never get tipped for it, it would be against policy and just weird. I don't expect anything extra for working hard.

[Xaerve]

Waiters at fancy restaurants have (usually) worked hard to get and stay there, so I only stiff em if they are snotty little punks... In the same thread, I'll tip 30 or 40% to a really really good waiter at an Ihop, because I know they are the ones who have trouble making their tips add up in the end.

QFT.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I don't tip that often and I really don't like the concept. If people are paid a fair wage then there is no need for tipping, so we should focus our energy on getting the minimum wage increased rather than forcing people to rely on tips.>>

Waiters are very often paid significantly less than minimum wage and their income is almost entirely on tips.

[Xaerve]

I don't tip that often and I really don't like the concept. If people are paid a fair wage then there is no need for tipping, so we should focus our energy on getting the minimum wage increased rather than forcing people to rely on tips.

I will only tip if there's genuinely something outstanding about the service. Example, I had my hair cut yesterday and everyone in the salon was lovely, the hairdresser gave me a really blunt honest opinion on my hair style and the colour/cut she did is fabulous. I was totally happy to tip her because it's the best haircut Ive ever had.

What annoys me most is, I run around like a headless chicken Monday-Friday visiting my patients, sometimes spending an hour sorting out a wound or setting up IV drugs etc. I never get tipped for it, it would be against policy and just weird. I don't expect anything extra for working hard.

If you computed it out what's your hourly wage?

Almost all waiters and waitresses in the States get FAR less than minimum wage. over 85%+ of their income is directly from their tips.

I just laid out the argument for why tipping is a better idea than just "salary increases" for the service staff. Its a system of natural selection, if you want it in a nutshell.

[Celephais]

Stretch didn't mention the quality of service in his post. That's what's so stupid about this, a waiter can do absolutely nothing special and expect a 20% cut.

Oh and as for the difficulty of obtaining the job and hence deserving a better tip... hot waitresses easily get better tips.

[Bobmuhthol]

Natural market power, there. That's an obvious and unavoidable imbalance.

[Miss X]

If you computed it out what's your hourly wage?

Almost all waiters and waitresses in the States get FAR less than minimum wage. over 85%+ of their income is directly from their tips.

I just laid out the argument for why tipping is a better idea than just "salary increases" for the service staff. Its a system of natural selection, if you want it in a nutshell.

It isn't that way in the UK, which is good. :)

[Celephais]

I just laid out the argument for why tipping is a better idea than just "salary increases" for the service staff. Its a system of natural selection, if you want it in a nutshell.

All jobs should be based on tipping then...

And it's not like a waiter can get away with not serving someone their food if they know that person isn't going to tip them. If I frequented a place and never tipped, I would get a rep and eventually get "shitty service" but... what's that entail? spitting in my food? Lets see that waiter not get fired when I bring that food up to the owner/health department.

[Xaerve]

Stretch didn't mention the quality of service in his post. That's what's so stupid about this, a waiter can do absolutely nothing special and expect a 20% cut.



Read the comments in thread, then repost.



Oh and as for the difficulty of obtaining the job and hence deserving a better tip... hot waitresses easily get better tips.

Once again, you have no idea about the high restaurant industry. Looks are somewhat important, but it takes a specific personality and memory to really make it in the industry. We're not talking about Hooters, ;)

[Lomoriond]

I think the minimum wage for waitstaff here in Oregon is something like $2.13 an hour and they have to report their tips for taxing.

The real question is, what do barista's at starbucks make and why the FUCK do they have the audacity to glare at me for dropping my $0.70 worth of change into the tip jar for my $5 cup of urine sample sized cup of coffee swill?

[Xaerve]

All jobs should be based on tipping then...

And it's not like a waiter can get away with not serving someone their food if they know that person isn't going to tip them. If I frequented a place and never tipped, I would get a rep and eventually get "shitty service" but... what's that entail? spitting in my food? Lets see that waiter not get fired when I bring that food up to the owner/health department.

I'm going to assume you live in a box at this point and stop wasting my time responding to you ;)

[Keller]

Stretch didn't mention the quality of service in his post. That's what's so stupid about this, a waiter can do absolutely nothing special and expect a 20% cut.

Oh and as for the difficulty of obtaining the job and hence deserving a better tip... hot waitresses easily get better tips.

Just like anyone, servers take pride in their work. I loved it when tables would seek me out before they left just to say thanks.

Sure, there are times you get in the weeds and absolutely can't give every table your best service. But then you understand that you're not going to have the best tips, but you should have more tables and therefore come out about even.

[Celephais]

Almost all waiters and waitresses in the States get FAR less than minimum wage. over 85%+ of their income is directly from their tips.

and what exactly stops one waiter from getting a string of asshole customers? They can be the greatest waiter in the world and get shit due to bad luck.


Read the comments in thread, then repost.

You said things about quality of service, Stretch never once mentioned it and he was told his tipping was "poor" by kneejerk reaction.






Once again, you have no idea about the high restaurant industry. Looks are somewhat important, but it takes a specific personality and memory to really make it in the industry. We're not talking about Hooters, ;)
I'm not claiming to know a lot about it, I'm saying that I've had a really good experience in an IHop, and "reflect" that with a 35% tip, and a crappy waiter in a nice place and reflect that with a 15% tip... I still gave more money for the shitty service, just because at some point in time that server was good? that's bullshit.

[Celephais]

Sure, there are times you get in the weeds and absolutely can't give every table your best service. But then you understand that you're not going to have the best tips, but you should have more tables and therefore come out about even.

Yet the majority of people don't scale their tips appropriately, in their mines they've got a little scale:
"Service was in the lower 20% of my experiences" - 10% tip
"Service was in the 20-90% of my experiences" - 20% tip
"Service was great, top 10% of what I've seen" - 25% tip

the scale just doesn't make sense.

[Xaerve]

Yet the majority of people don't scale their tips appropriately, in their mines they've got a little scale:
"Service was in the lower 20% of my experiences" - 10% tip
"Service was in the 20-90% of my experiences" - 20% tip
"Service was great, top 10% of what I've seen" - 25% tip

the scale just doesn't make sense.

What's mines is mines.

[Celephais]

What's mines is mines.

Heh, and this whole thread I've been doing my best to avoid saying resteraunt so I don't misspell it. :P

[AestheticDeath]

I think 15% used to be the norm, Ive seen articles within the last year claiming 20% is the new norm.. I normally do between 15 and 20 depending on the place.

But I personally hate tipping. I don't buy $200 bottles of liquid either though. I find that most food and drink is already too overpriced. I don't like adding more on top of an expensive bill just because the damn restaurant can't pay the employees properly.

I just don't feel that the work a waiter does is so hard that they require such a high reward. I have never been a waiter, cook, busboy, dish washer, restaurant owner/manager or anything like that either though. So I am only seeing a small part of it all.

I just see places like fast food restaurants being able to pay their employees easily enough, why can't someone who charges much higher prices for the food, do the same thing?

I live in Abilene, TX. Cost of living is relatively low etc.. If Taco Bell, and McDonalds here can pay employees a straight up wage of over $7 an hour, why can't a nicer place who charges more do the same thing? I think tips should be more for a job well done, not a must have to pay the persons wages. It makes me feel like I am paying for two meals when I only get one.

[Keller]

Yet the majority of people don't scale their tips appropriately, in their mines they've got a little scale:
"Service was in the lower 20% of my experiences" - 10% tip
"Service was in the 20-90% of my experiences" - 20% tip
"Service was great, top 10% of what I've seen" - 25% tip

the scale just doesn't make sense.


My baseline when I walk into a restaurant is 20%. It can go up to 30% and down to 15%. Judging the service is actually about 1/3 of the fun of going out for my wife and I.

[Stretch]

I didn't mention the service, because nothing really stood out either way. I wasn't bowled over with exceptional service, and we weren't neglected in any way. If anything, it was about what I expected given the restaurant we were at.

Anyway, I've discussed it with some other folks, and the consensus seems to be that the minimal tip should have been what the corking fee would have been. I have no idea how much that is, but oh well.

I don't frequent fine dining establishments much anymore, now that my interviewing and internship days are over. Wish I had paid more attention and snuck a look at some of the lunch/dinner tabs.

[Celephais]

Also, unless Stretch just drastically overpaid for that 200$ bottle of wine, then yes, its a lot harder to carry a 200$ bottle of wine than a 100$ bottle. (See comment above).

Forgot to reply to this... I meant in the same restaurant, someone told him if he couldn't afford the tip he shouldn't have gotten the $200 bottle. So instead he orders the $100 bottle, and the same waiter just picks up a different bottle. How did that waiter just do half the work? If he ordered a $20 peice of chicken, it's not ten times easier for the waiter to bring that chicken out than to pour the bottle.

I'm not saying that whatever waiter in whatever restaurant doesn't deserve money for good service, I just don't understand how the cost of what I order should weigh into how much money I leave them. If I feel like having a salad instead of a steak, why should I pay them less for the same service?

I also like how I don't have to tip for my drink if I'm just drinking water. (Ooof, actually last 'fancy' restaurant I was at I spent $20 on water because I decided to have bottled water).

[AestheticDeath]

Forgot to reply to this... I meant in the same restaurant, someone told him if he couldn't afford the tip he shouldn't have gotten the $200 bottle. So instead he orders the $100 bottle, and the same waiter just picks up a different bottle. How did that waiter just do half the work? If he ordered a $20 peice of chicken, it's not ten times easier for the waiter to bring that chicken out than to pour the bottle.

I'm not saying that whatever waiter in whatever restaurant doesn't deserve money for good service, I just don't understand how the cost of what I order should weigh into how much money I leave them. If I feel like having a salad instead of a steak, why should I pay them less for the same service?

I agree.

[Ignot]

I guess the problem i have is that if you have a $100 meal and tip 30% then the waiter just made $30. I don't make $30 an hour so why should i give this deuche 30% even if the service is amazing? That seems high to me. There should be some kind of cut off.

No waiter should get $60 on a $200 meal, IMO. Im stickin to 15%.

Edited: I have never done any waiting type jobs before so keep that in mind.

[AestheticDeath]

I don't suppose anyone here owns/manages a restaurant?

I would be interested to know what it actually costs to run one, and how much profit they make by not paying waiters minimum wage. Whether they would go under or something if they had to.

[TheEschaton]

Waiting tables is, IMO, the hardest job in the world, barring physical labor. CEO? Fuck that, everyone's kissing your ass, and you have people doing your research for you.

And has anyone here poured a $200 bottle of wine? That's an art form, rarely done correctly.

Tipping = 20%. I regularly tip 25% if I like the waiter and they did a good job.

But then again, I worked in a restaurant throughout high school.

-TheE-

[Skeeter]

this thread makes me glad I don't wait tables. You all are some cheap bastards. I'll chalk it up to the fact that the majority of you are young and/or don't make a lot of money.

[Davenshire]

Who the hell would be a waiter/waitress if the jobs paid minimum wage?

What kind of service would you get without the incentives of tips?


Hmmmmmm....

[Ignot]

Im just going to pretend you did not really mean that being a waiter is more difficult then being a CEO of a big company.

[Ignot]

this thread makes me glad I don't wait tables. You all are some cheap bastards. I'll chalk it up to the fact that the majority of you are young and/or don't make a lot of money.

Or we have diffierent opinions on things and age and how much we make arent really the factor.

[TheEschaton]

I have an alternative question:

If you open a tab at a bar, then, at the end of the night, you try and figure out the tip. Do you the standard $1 per drink, or a percentage thing? If the drinks are $5, they work out even, but if the drinks are less, the standard $1 is more than 20%.

[Skeeter]

Or we have diffierent opinions on things and age and how much we make arent really the factor.

Unlikely. Age and Wage are a major determinate in most opinions.

[AestheticDeath]

Who the hell would be a waiter/waitress if the jobs paid minimum wage?

What kind of service would you get without the incentives of tips?


Hmmmmmm....

It doesnt have to be just minimum wage, it could be more. But people would still work the job.

As far as service. If they wanted to keep the job, it had better be decent.

Anyhow, I think I can solve my whole problem with tipping by not going out anymore.

I can buy cheaper food at the grocery store, and it will be healthier too. I don't need someone serving it to me so I can pay out an exhorbitant sum.

The work/effort really doesnt seem all that great to me.

If I lived in a bigger city with nice nice restaurants that had tickets of several hundred dollars, Id be a waiter no problem. I could even deal with assholes all day. The money some people make doing that is crazy. Easy money.

[Xaerve]

Unlikely. Age and Wage are a major determinate in most opinions.

Agreed, but demographics I think are the biggest factor.

I know that in the North East, tipping poorly is very fopaux if the service is commendable. Alex, Bobmuthol, who is "younger" and makes "less" than some of the other individuals in this thread demonstrates this reality, in my opinion.

[Khariz]

I think the minimum wage for waitstaff here in Oregon is something like $2.13 an hour and they have to report their tips for taxing.

The real question is, what do barista's at starbucks make and why the FUCK do they have the audacity to glare at me for dropping my $0.70 worth of change into the tip jar for my $5 cup of urine sample sized cup of coffee swill?

Nobody replied to this, so I will.

I don't tip at Starbucks. I drink Starbucks 3 times per week, and I'm already paying 3 times what a cup of coffee should cost. Starbucks can kiss my ass.

[AestheticDeath]

Unlikely. Age and Wage are a major determinate in most opinions.

I would almost agree with that. But even if I were to become older, or rich overnight, I still wouldnt be happy having to tip. Most definately wouldnt even give over $20 no matter what the bill costs. Not unless I was having to take on the whole bill/tip for a very large party. Most times though I don't have more than 4-6 people with me when I go out to eat. One tables worth or so.

[Xaerve]

It doesnt have to be just minimum wage, it could be more. But people would still work the job.

As far as service. If they wanted to keep the job, it had better be decent.

Anyhow, I think I can solve my whole problem with tipping by not going out anymore.

I can buy cheaper food at the grocery store, and it will be healthier too. I don't need someone serving it to me so I can pay out an exhorbitant sum.

The work/effort really doesnt seem all that great to me.

If I lived in a bigger city with nice nice restaurants that had tickets of several hundred dollars, Id be a waiter no problem. I could even deal with assholes all day. The money some people make doing that is crazy. Easy money.

I agree with one point, I think, you're making. If you can't afford to go out to eat and be served by others, then don't go. Or if you can't afford the "fancy" restaurant and the "fancy" tip, then don't go. Its not that hard.

[Parkbandit]

Fucking Bob seems to have more life experience than half of you. I hope half of you don't frequent the same establishments the way you tip.. as I am certain you've received special sauces in your meal selections.

[Xaerve]

Starbucks employees in Cambridge, MA get 10$ an hour starting out, and benefits. I'm not sure that the few Starbucks I go to even have tip cups... I'll look tomorrow morning.

[Khariz]

Starbucks employees in Cambridge, MA get 10$ an hour starting out, and benefits. I'm not sure that the few Starbucks I go to even have tip cups... I'll look tomorrow morning.

Exactly. Its my position that places that actually pay their employees well, despite the presence of tip jars, get no tips from me.

[Skeeter]

I don't go to starbucks but it is unlikely I would tip there. I'm not tipping the guy at mcDonalds making my fries either.

[Khariz]

I don't go to starbucks but it is unlikely I would tip there. I'm not tipping the guy at mcDonalds making my fries either.

Yeah, but it's also not like you see tip jars at McDonalds either. Most Starbucks I've been to plainly solicit tips...which is stupid to me.

[Ignot]

if the meal is good then we should be tipping the fucking cooks then too!!

I don't know why alot of you are associating the lack of a good tip to mean that your young and poor. Maybe i just don't like paying the waiter $30 for a $100 meal when all he did was bring out the food and tell me about the specials. I am young and I am in a high tax bracket. Does this mean i HAVE to tip people alot just because i can?

what do you all tip a deliver guy? 50%?

[Celephais]

Fucking Bob seems to have more life experience than half of you. I hope half of you don't frequent the same establishments the way you tip.. as I am certain you've received special sauces in your meal selections.

I tip well, I just wish I didn't, it's certainly true that in the NE I feel to do anything less than 20% makes you looked at as a jerk.

I just think it's the stupidest thing in the world to tip based on the COST of what they are serving. I think it's fine to tip more at a 'fancy' restaurant, but not because the food costs more. I think tipping should be more of a ((number of plates) * someNumber + (number of drinks) * someOtherNumber) * qualityFactor

[Ignot]

I tip well, I just wish I didn't, it's certainly true that in the NE I feel to do anything less than 20% makes you looked at as a jerk.

I just think it's the stupidest thing in the world to tip based on the COST of what they are serving. I think it's fine to tip more at a 'fancy' restaurant, but not because the food costs more. I think tipping should be more of a ((number of plates) * someNumber + (number of drinks) * someOtherNumber) * qualityFactor

I agree.

[Lomoriond]

Nobody replied to this, so I will.

I don't tip at Starbucks. I drink Starbucks 3 times per week, and I'm already paying 3 times what a cup of coffee should cost. Starbucks can kiss my ass.

I've been to starbucks exactly twice in my life... first time I got a bagel and didn't tip and the second time I got a cup of crap for $4.30 and dropped my change into the tip jar thinking "hey if they have a tip jar, they must not make that much" and got GLARED at.

Apparently that's against coffee house etiquette, and you're supposed to tip at least a dollar... though now that I know they don't make waitstaff minimum wage, I very much doubt I'll tip them ever again.

So heres my next query... how much to bartenders make, and should I keep tipping them?

[Xaerve]

if the meal is good then we should be tipping the fucking cooks then too!!

I don't know why alot of you are associating the lack of a good tip to mean that your young and poor. Maybe i just don't like paying the waiter $30 for a $100 meal when all he did was bring out the food and tell me about the specials. I am young and I am in a high tax bracket. Does this mean i HAVE to tip people alot just because i can?

what do you all tip a deliver guy? 50%?


Have you ever heard of Tip-share? I'm really shocked by the strong opinions, with no knowledge, throughout this thread.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<((number of plates) * someNumber + (number of drinks) * someOtherNumber) * qualityFactor>>

But then how would senior citizens be able to figure out what to tip? That's a complex equation for a standard calculator!

[Latrinsorm]

I think we all know that the real problem here is spending $200 on piss.

All the arguments here made in favor of the tipping system can be applied just as easily to pretty much any customer service position. The idea that tips are some sort of protection money to keep food unmolested is unbelievably juvenile, especially coming from the "well you guys are just young and poor" crowd. You want to talk about underpaid and overworked, do any of you tip your children's teachers? Isn't that a little bit more important than knowing which cheese goes with which wine?

[Celephais]

Have you ever heard of Tip-share? I'm really shocked by the strong opinions, with no knowledge, throughout this thread.

Tip-Share is a flat cut of the server's tips, quality of food be damned. So if I got shitty food, and great service, the cook is getting the same cut of that tip as he would any other tip.

[Tolwynn]

I'm really shocked by the strong opinions, with no knowledge, throughout this thread.

I'm guessing you don't read the political threads much, then?

[Celephais]

<<((number of plates) * someNumber + (number of drinks) * someOtherNumber) * qualityFactor>>

But then how would senior citizens be able to figure out what to tip? That's a complex equation for a standard calculator!

Heh, true. But if it were like $3 a plate and $1 a drink it's not too hard to figure out... so your typical $20 Chili's chain type meal nets a $4 tip, perfect.


I think we all know that the real problem here is spending $200 on piss.

All the arguments here made in favor of the tipping system can be applied just as easily to pretty much any customer service position. The idea that tips are some sort of protection money to keep food unmolested is unbelievably juvenile, especially coming from the "well you guys are just young and poor" crowd. You want to talk about underpaid and overworked, do any of you tip your children's teachers? Isn't that a little bit more important than knowing which cheese goes with which wine?

Completely agree.

[Xaerve]

I think we all know that the real problem here is spending $200 on piss.

All the arguments here made in favor of the tipping system can be applied just as easily to pretty much any customer service position. The idea that tips are some sort of protection money to keep food unmolested is unbelievably juvenile, especially coming from the "well you guys are just young and poor" crowd. You want to talk about underpaid and overworked, do any of you tip your children's teachers? Isn't that a little bit more important than knowing which cheese goes with which wine?

I'm not sure how to even respond to this.

Your comment on the wine is just silly. If you don't enjoy wine or think that 200$ is too much, you're more than free to not drink/purchase wine.

Your second paragraph is misguided and very immature. Its not a protection service, its rewarding individuals who work hard to ensure you have a fine dining experience, whatever level of restaurant you're at. The difference between dining out and tipping and not dining out and tipping is, again like the wine, a choice you can make. Being condescending about someone else's decision to enjoy fine dining or dining period is just silly.

And bringing teacher's into the argument is just random. If you feel so inclined, again, to help the teachers out, then do so.

[Xaerve]

I'm guessing you don't read the political threads much, then?

Yea, I don't respond in them for a reason :)

I notice that others on the boards do a good job policing the misinformation though.

[Jenisi]

Having served for the past few years from Applebee's to fine dining/catering, I would prefer if we were paid a decent wage and tipping if they felt I deserved it rather than an obligation would be an ideal world, but the resturants don't give us raises, and consider the longer we stay at a restuant our compensation is knowing how to serve better and therefore our raise is better tips, which is complete bullshit cuz after 3 months of serving basicallly nothing changes.
What also sucks, is that we make 2.13 the entire hour whether we are serving or not, so depending on what restuant you are, you're spending 3+ hours not making any tips and making the tables look nice, filling everything, not just serving your food but cleaning up the 500 broken crayons your kid threw on the floor and destroyed every napkin, and you spilled ketchup all over the table and just left one hell of a mess, that in the end we don't even have TIME to clean up during the busy hours and severly cuts down the amount of tables we'll get due to not being able to clean up your shit fast enough.
On top of that, it's the one job if somone is a complete bitch to you, you're still forced to stay with them. In retail, you can walk away and ask a manager to deal with the asshole, but in serving you have to stick it out because managment doesn't have time to deal with irrational customers most of the time and you have to go back to them anyway.
Now as far as wine goes, having done fine dining, usually it (the tip) gets cut down a bit, but usually 100+ dollar bottles of wine or champagne are rarely ordered, and when they are it's usually a special occasion that's going to be made special and they are already prepared to tip well if the experience is made wonderful.
Now I hate it when I have tables of 2 parents and 8 kids that goes through refills like sugar is going out of style and I can't do hardly ANYTHING for my other tables because of these assholes and then if I can't get to their 8 refills because they've finshed every fucking drink before I've even finshed taking their order and I have 2 new tables sat and they think I gave them shitty service. We're not super people and shitty service 95% is NOT intended, the restuants hate to staff properly and we usually end up suffering.
People walking out on us comes out of our pockets, we have to pay for your theft. Our tips are also not all our tips, we have to tip other people whether you think all of the tip is going to us. I've had nights where I have to give away 50% of my tips on crazy days because of shitty tips and being forced to give money to helpers.
It's not a walk in the park, and bringing you that 100 dollar bottle of wine isn't the only thing that you are tipping for. 10% if the server is completely unattentive and just chit chatting away with coworkers and not paying attention. 15% on a normal bill (even if things go wrong because a lot of the times, it's not the servers fault). 20% if the server is running around like a chicken with its head cut off and/or amazing service regardless of circumstance.

That's my rant coming from a servers perspective, whether you think it's our fault for taking the job or not, whatever. I've liked serving a hell of a lot more than retail, because the possibility is there to make money on the weekends and when you're in college, it's imporant to be able to pay your bills even if your scheduale is tight. I'll probally be serving again this summer, but I definatly don't prefer fine dining.

[GuildRat]

Sheesh you're a cheap bastard.....40 bucks? You must've never been in the service industry.

[Parkbandit]

Nobody replied to this, so I will.

I don't tip at Starbucks. I drink Starbucks 3 times per week, and I'm already paying 3 times what a cup of coffee should cost. Starbucks can kiss my ass.

If Starbucks sat you at a table, took your order, cooked your order, delivered your order.. you'd have a point.

Rule of thumb for me: If I am standing in line to order something, I'm not tipping you. If I'm seated and served, I'll start at 20% and increase/decrease as the service dictates. I've tipped as high as 50% and as low as 1%.

[Bobmuhthol]

As far as the $40 for the $320 meal...

It's not like the waiter is going to starve over it. It's nothing to get disgusted at.

$10 for an $80 meal at a smaller restaurant I could understand calling him a cheap bastard.

[Celephais]

Your second paragraph is misguided and very immature. Its not a protection service, its rewarding individuals who work hard to ensure you have a fine dining experience, whatever level of restaurant you're at.

I don't think anyone is saying waiters shouldn't be able to make a decent living, or that they shouldn't be encouraged to provide a good service, it's just stupid that it comes in the form that it does. When a restaurant has a policy of parties over some size include a manditory tip, why exactly don't they apply that to all tables? Wouldn't it make sense to just tack the price on and then let you tip above that if it warranted?

I'm still curious as to if you think tipping based on percent makes any sense. At the same restaurant, same server, why should my decision as to the label on the wine I order influence the percieved quality of the reward I give for my dining experience?

[GuildRat]

If Starbucks sat you at a table, took your order, cooked your order, delivered your order.. you'd have a point.

Rule of thumb for me: If I am standing in line to order something, I'm not tipping you. If I'm seated and served, I'll start at 20% and increase/decrease as the service dictates. I've tipped as high as 50% and as low as 1%.

15% is a start...good service just goes up.....bad down to 5%...a restaurant that serves a 120 toadskin bottle of wine? and you worry about a tip...eesh.

[Latrinsorm]

Its not a protection servicePB seems to disagree. To be fair, he's a raving lunatic, but I have heard the same claim brought up in other, real-life conversations.
its rewarding individuals who work hard to ensure you have a fine dining experienceThe issue isn't whether they should be rewarded, the issue is whether they should be rewarded with the tip system as opposed to a fair wage. More on this later.
Being condescending about someone else's decision to enjoy fine dining or dining period is just silly.Being condescending about someone else's decision to find an arbitrary monetary compensation system silly isn't? (Is this the part where I mention how you asked if people lived in boxes?)

Here are the arguments you've made as to why waitstaff should be tipped rather than paid normally:
1. I've always valued the hard work that waiters put into the service.
2. If the price was baseline, then there would be no incentive for over-the-top service.
3. When I go into a nice restaurant and have several questions about the esoteric items on the menu and what wine would pair best with my course, I expect a well-informed answer, an answer that "some waiter" at Chilli's is not trained to give.
4. Waiters at fancy restaurants have (usually) worked hard to get and stay there. (by proxy)
5. I'll tip 30 or 40% to a really really good waiter at an Ihop, because I know they are the ones who have trouble making their tips add up in the end. (by proxy)

Let's see how teachers stack up.
1. Work really hard.
2. We certainly want to give teachers an incentive to go over-the-top in teaching our kids, don't we?
3. We certainly want teachers to be well-informed.
4. Teachers at the best schools have certainly (usually) worked hard to get there. I'd bet nepotism is about equal, and the only other difference is tenure.
5. If you really want to get depressed, look up a teacher's salary in an inner city public school.

So how is it that teachers don't work on a tip system and waitfolk do?

[Methais]

I thought the stereotype was that senior citizens, teenagers, and black people were bad tippers.

Most black people and teenagers, yeah they don't tip worth a shit, at least in my experiences. Old people though? They usually tip pretty decent, with some exceptions, like the clueless 140 year old lady that still thinks 50 cents is a lot of money.

As for everyone in this thread that doesn't tip, I hope it's not at a restaurant you go to often, because people who work for tips remember two types of people: Those who tip big, and those who don't tip at all.

If you don't tip and are known for this at wherever you're eating, expect shitty service from most places.

Here's an example: This one guy used to order pizza delivery all the time and would never tip (and would always answer the door wearing these daisy duke looking cutoffs that made me wanna kick him in the nuts, which just made dealing with this guy even worse). Guess whose food would be delivered last, despite the fact that he lived right around the corner?

He would always order a medium pizza and a 20 oz. coke. Eventually when he would order, one of us would go grab his coke out of the cooler and put it under the heat lamp while his pizza got made, to ensure his drink was nice and warm by the time he got it, and his pizza would be borderline cold too, since we would make it a point to deliver his food last. Our objective was to either get him to get the hint and start tipping, or to stop ordering.

Eventually he got the hint because he started tipping. Now he gets his food delivered promptly, his drink ice cold, and his pizza oven fresh.

In the delivery business, there is no justification for not tipping, especially with gas prices these days. But waiters bust their asses too, and to not tip them is a slap in the face, and I hope they remember you so that they can give you shitty service next time you go there.

If there were no such thing as tipping, you'd have a hard time finding someone to wait tables anywhere unless you jacked your menu prices way up in order to pay them an hourly wage high enough to make a living off of.

If you can afford to eat out or order delivery, you can afford to tip. If you can't afford to tip, either order something less expensive so you can tip, or stay home, microwave some hot pockets, and shove them up your ass.

There's a 99% chance that the people in this thread who don't tip have never worked a real tip job..and by real tip job, I don't mean some gay shit like Starbucks.

To put it in GS terms so some of you can understand: Some guy hands you a box and you open it. He loots the box and it has 10 million coins and a claidhmore with a +500 DS bonus inside. He tips you 500 coins. Anyone that says they'd be happy with that is either lying, or is just a big vagina.

To give the benefit of the doubt, there are still actually some people who are completely ignorant to the whole concept of tipping. A long time ago I delivered a pizza to this family of white trash, and the chick's grandmother tells her "Tip him at least a dollar." since she saw that she wasn't going to give me shit for a tip. The granddaughter responds, "What's he gonna do with a dollar?"

My thoughts were something along the lines of
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a162/DoyleHargraves/8468a5a1.gif

[GuildRat]

As far as the $40 for the $320 meal...

It's not like the waiter is going to starve over it. It's nothing to get disgusted at.

$10 for an $80 meal at a smaller restaurant I could understand calling him a cheap bastard.

It's not the fact that the tip may have been less than I would've tipped....it's more the fact that he would spend 120 dollars for a bottle of wine...then question his tip.

Obviously it was a nice restaurant.....so if you were getting good service the tip should be IAW.

[Xaerve]

PB seems to disagree. To be fair, he's a raving lunatic, but I have heard the same claim brought up in other, real-life conversations.The issue isn't whether they should be rewarded, the issue is whether they should be rewarded with the tip system as opposed to a fair wage. More on this later.Being condescending about someone else's decision to find an arbitrary monetary compensation system silly isn't? (Is this the part where I mention how you asked if people lived in boxes?)

Here are the arguments you've made as to why waitstaff should be tipped rather than paid normally:
1. I've always valued the hard work that waiters put into the service.
2. If the price was baseline, then there would be no incentive for over-the-top service.
3. When I go into a nice restaurant and have several questions about the esoteric items on the menu and what wine would pair best with my course, I expect a well-informed answer, an answer that "some waiter" at Chilli's is not trained to give.
4. Waiters at fancy restaurants have (usually) worked hard to get and stay there. (by proxy)
5. I'll tip 30 or 40% to a really really good waiter at an Ihop, because I know they are the ones who have trouble making their tips add up in the end. (by proxy)

Let's see how teachers stack up.
1. Work really hard.
2. We certainly want to give teachers an incentive to go over-the-top in teaching our kids, don't we?
3. We certainly want teachers to be well-informed.
4. Teachers at the best schools have certainly (usually) worked hard to get there. I'd bet nepotism is about equal, and the only other difference is tenure.
5. If you really want to get depressed, look up a teacher's salary in an inner city public school.

So how is it that teachers don't work on a tip system and waitfolk do?


Since you've decided to interject the word "we" into your teacher comments, I don't think its really worth arguing with you over this.

In short, I'll say, you have the freedom to change professions at any time if you're major concern is getting tips... which I sincerely hope it is not.

[Parkbandit]

PB seems to disagree. To be fair, he's a raving lunatic,

This from a guy who believes an alien being created this planet, created man in 7 days.. decided for whatever reason he fucked up.. destroyed everything with a flood except one family and a bunch of animals.. let his kid get tortured on a cross..

Yea.. I'm the raving lunatic.

[Xaerve]

If there were no such thing as tipping, you'd have a hard time finding someone to wait tables anywhere unless you jacked your menu prices way up in order to pay them an hourly wage high enough to make a living off of.

If you can afford to eat out or order delivery, you can afford to tip. If you can't afford to tip, either order something less expensive so you can tip, or stay home, microwave some hot pockets, and shove them up your ass.

Well said.

[Ignot]

Im starting to think that i have never had really great service or my expectations are to high.

My Mother and Aunt are teachers and they get tips at the end of the year. Also, im quite sure that being a waiter is very difficult but please don't make it out to be the most difficult job in the whole world. There are many many jobs that are very difficult.

[Latrinsorm]

Righteous indignation is a lot more effective when it's not punctuated with a backwards, teenager-esque slur. You may as well have said "most coloreds don't tip". Anyway.
If there were no such thing as tipping, you'd have a hard time finding someone to wait tables anywhere unless you jacked your menu prices way up in order to pay them an hourly wage high enough to make a living off of.If they're making enough money now with tips, making enough money with a regular wage wouldn't have any effect on what I spend. What it would have an effect on is the way people get paid. That's the issue here.

[Stretch]

I guess the other question is, would it have been better to just stick with water and tip $30 on the $120 of food? Because that's probably what would have ended up happening.

[Celephais]

If there were no such thing as tipping, you'd have a hard time finding someone to wait tables anywhere unless you jacked your menu prices way up in order to pay them an hourly wage high enough to make a living off of.

I think the only people who would have a problem if that were to happen would be the people who were stiffing their waiters...


If you can afford to eat out or order delivery, you can afford to tip. If you can't afford to tip, either order something less expensive so you can tip...

If I want a $25 steak, but only have $27, why should I order a $10 salad and still only tip you $2?


To put it in GS terms so some of you can understand: Some guy hands you a box and you open it. He loots the box and it has 10 million coins and a claidhmore with a +500 DS bonus inside. He tips you 500 coins. Anyone that says they'd be happy with that is either lying, or is just a big vagina.

And if you open the box and all that's inside is 100 silver and a giant rock, the picker wouldn't exactly be happy with a 20 silver tip either.

[Latrinsorm]

Since you've decided to interject the word "we" into your teacher comments, I don't think its really worth arguing with you over this.Hey man, it's your position to abandon as you wish. I just don't see how you could feel so invested in it that you'd feel the need to take shots at people's personal lives but not invested enough to try and defend it.

[Xaerve]

Stretch, I think you need to have a concept of the day lesson. Lets start with empathy. Put yourself in that server's position, and then ask yourself these questions.

Thats how I make all my tipping decisions.

And yes, if you can't afford to pay the service for it, then don't order the wine, in my opinion. If you want to enjoy the finer things, they come with a price for a reason. Its your decision, not the waiters, to order the wine.

[Xaerve]

Hey man, it's your position to abandon as you wish. I just don't see how you could feel so invested in it that you'd feel the need to take shots at people's personal lives but not invested enough to try and defend it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't take a shot at anyone's personal life.

I just think you're being silly right now. I'm a consultant and my clients don't tip me, that makes me really angry. Don't they realize how much work I'm doing for their company? I'm fixing all the errors that some of their employees have been making for years. I'm only making .001% of the savings that their company will enjoy from my work... what the hell is your point?

Get off your high horse, or change professions. I'd hate to think someone with a chip on their shoulder like you was teaching my children.

[Khariz]

To put it in GS terms so some of you can understand: Some guy hands you a box and you open it. He loots the box and it has 10 million coins and a claidhmore with a +500 DS bonus inside. He tips you 500 coins. Anyone that says they'd be happy with that is either lying, or is just a big vagina.



You know, I was with you until you used this example. Are you saying that I should calculate what the contents of a box besides the coins and gems are when tipping in Gemstone? Hell fucking no. My picker is not going to benefit from a box containing a rare boxfound, if for no other reason than I won't know that it is such an item until well after I'm gone from his presence.

But even if I did, are you saying I should tip him 1/3 of the boxes worth *still*, just because I happened to get a claidhmore worthe 150 million? That's nuts.

Sorry, resume thread.

[Khariz]

This from a guy who believes an alien being created this planet, created man in 7 days.. decided for whatever reason he fucked up.. destroyed everything with a flood except one family and a bunch of animals.. let his kid get tortured on a cross..

Yea.. I'm the raving lunatic.

Hold on a second! Are you seriously a hard core right-wing athiest? Serious question.

[Xaerve]

You know, I was with you until I used this example. Are you saying that I should calculate what the contents of a box besides the coins and gems are when tipping in Gemstone? Hell fucking no. My picker is not going to benefit from a box containing a rare boxfound, if for no other reason than I won't know that it is such an item until well after I'm gone from his presense.

But even if I did, are you saying I should tip him 1/3 of the boxes worth *still*, just because I happened to get a claidhmore worthe 150 million? That's nuts.

Sorry, resume thread.

He's not saying 1/3 I think..

I'll put it like this. When I go to the casino I always tip the dealer 1-2$ for a regular "win." However, one time I won 560$ in a hand and tipped the dealer 15$. Does that make more sense?

However, I think its a slightly tangential example.

[Celephais]

And yes, if you can't afford to pay the service for it, then don't order the wine, in my opinion. If you want to enjoy the finer things, they come with a price for a reason. Its your decision, not the waiters, to order the wine.

I really don't see how you can think this makes any sense, especially since he said he could have just as easily ordered water. Aside from the waiter having to do a little ritual to pour the wine, it isn't exactly like the waiter is "losing" something by Stretch ordering the wine and tipping less on the wine.

As Jenisi said, the most annoying thing to her was the 8 refills, well if it's free refills than most people wouldn't be increasing their tip because of the refills (most people, if I get refills I tip on what they would have cost). The tip should be on the service, not what was ordered. I'm curious if you're actually opposing that point.

[Parkbandit]

I guess the other question is, would it have been better to just stick with water and tip $30 on the $120 of food? Because that's probably what would have ended up happening.

You need to get a job in the service industry if you still can't comprehend how to tip effectively. It's not a difficult concept.. even Bob figured it out. He's made some of you look like you've never stepped out of your cave before.


For those who don't believe in tipping properly, I hope you go to the same restaurant repeatedly. If the waiters don't like your tip, tell them to fuck off... tipping is not mandatory. Or better yet, let them know when you are seated that you don't believe in tipping.

[Parkbandit]

Hold on a second! Are you seriously a hard core right-wing athiest? Serious question.


I am an athiest

I am a conservative when it comes to finance

I am a moderate when it comes to social issues

I am a rabid conservative when it comes to defense


I'm a round peg that can't be shoved in a square hole.

[Khariz]

He's not saying 1/3 I think..

I'll put it like this. When I go to the casino I always tip the dealer 1-2$ for a regular "win." However, one time I won 560$ in a hand and tipped the dealer 15$. Does that make more sense?

However, I think its a slightly tangential example.

Sliding scale kind of deal?

So if I tip 1k for a 3k box normally, and I find a box with a 5mil coin item in it, its okay to tip 30k (my whole haul) instead?

I don't think we can apply this to gemstone fairly. Something like this isn't going to happen in real life. We don't tip people who sell us lotto tickets.

[Xaerve]

I really don't see how you can think this makes any sense, especially since he said he could have just as easily ordered water. Aside from the waiter having to do a little ritual to pour the wine, it isn't exactly like the waiter is "losing" something by Stretch ordering the wine and tipping less on the wine.

As Jenisi said, the most annoying thing to her was the 8 refills, well if it's free refills than most people wouldn't be increasing their tip because of the refills (most people, if I get refills I tip on what they would have cost). The tip should be on the service, not what was ordered. I'm curious if you're actually opposing that point.


I'm thinking of how to articulate my response to your second point. I have to head out for a bit. I'll be back later on and will respond. I'm not dodging the point though.

[Stretch]

I'll put it like this. When I go to the casino I always tip the dealer 1-2$ for a regular "win." However, one time I won 560$ in a hand and tipped the dealer 15$. Does that make more sense?

However, I think its a slightly tangential example.

You tipped 2.67% on that hand

I'll assume a regular "win" is $20

What made the percentage on your tip drop from 5%-10% to less than 3%?

EDIT: Also, I'm a little surprised at how many replies this has generated in a couple hours.

[Xaerve]

You tipped 2.67% on that hand

I'll assume a regular "win" is $20

What made the percentage on your tip drop from 5%-10% to less than 3%?

Have you ever gambled? Its just how things are done there. I don't sit there and calculate the percentage that I give the dealer.

1-2$ is customary for every "win." I'm not getting into this anymore, but I chose to give the dealer a bigger tip, not everyone does, because he dealt me great cards. It has nothing to do with percentages of anything, just personal preference.

edit: And like I said, this has nothing to do with tipping a waiter/waitress.

[Khariz]

Have you ever gambled? Its just how things are done there. I don't sit there and calculate the percentage that I give the dealer.

1-2$ is customary for every "win." I'm not getting into this anymore, but I chose to give the dealer a bigger tip, not everyone does, because he dealt me great cards. It has nothing to do with percentages of anything, just personal preference.

edit: And like I said, this has nothing to do with tipping a waiter/waitress.

Wanna know something sad? I've been to Vegas 5 times. Stayed at the Bellagio, The Wynn, the Paris, etc. I gambled, and never even knew you were supposed to tip the dealer. I feel stupid now.

[Methais]

We don't tip people who sell us lotto tickets.

Actually from what I understand, it's normal for a lottery winner (real lottery, not stupid scratch off tickets) to tip the store they bought the winning ticket from. Though since I've never won the lottery, I can't speak from experience, but I do remember hearing something like this a long time ago.

[Jazuela]

My "usual" tipping policy is a minimum 15% on food, minimum 10% on alcohol. I'll go 5% more on each if the service was outstanding. So using that general guide, $40 is a reasonable minimum, telling the waiter he did a decent job, there were no problems worth mentioning, and you enjoyed your meal. If he had done an outstanding job, an extra $10 might have ensured that he'd remember you next time you came. An extra $15-20 should ensure that he not only remembers you, but he insists on being your waiter, and makes sure the bottle of wine is uncorked and breathing by the time you were seated.

Heh and yeah, you kick back some money to the guy who sells you the winning lottery ticket, and ALWAYS tip a barmaid at a casino. Otherwise she's less likely to be available to serve your next drink before you get up and move to another table.

We won a little bit on a lotto ticket (just a couple hundred bucks, nothing special) and we gave the clerk at the gas station $20.

[Methais]

You tipped 2.67% on that hand

I'll assume a regular "win" is $20

What made the percentage on your tip drop from 5%-10% to less than 3%?

EDIT: Also, I'm a little surprised at how many replies this has generated in a couple hours.

I think the difference is that when you go out to eat and order $100 worth of food, you're going to either get your food, or get your money back, as opposed to "Sorry you rolled a 7, no food for you. Please come again."

Until just now I was also ignorant of the whole tipping the dealer thing, but then again I don't really go to casinos either.

[Celephais]

Actually from what I understand, it's normal for a lottery winner (real lottery, not stupid scratch off tickets) to tip the store they bought the winning ticket from. Though since I've never won the lottery, I can't speak from experience, but I do remember hearing something like this a long time ago.

There is some website on "You've won the big one, what do you do now" I came across when that powerball jackpot was huge... me and a coworker were just wasting time acting like we were going to win (He graphed and printed out how massively our chances of winning increased by buying more tickets... that if we bought 5 tickets we would have a 3x10-12% chance or winning... something stupid). Pretty sure it said something along those lines was the norm.

[Kranar]

Wanna know something sad? I've been to Vegas 5 times. Stayed at the Bellagio, The Wynn, the Paris, etc. I gambled, and never even knew you were supposed to tip the dealer. I feel stupid now.


Heh I never EVER tip the dealer when playing Limit Hold'em Poker. I don't feel bad about it either since at most casino's that I go to, the rake is so high that tipping them ontop of that when you win hurts your expected value.

As for tipping at restaurants, I find I agree mostly with Celephais. While I am a very generous tipper, I don't really have any rational reason why I should be tipping at all. The best reason I can think of is that restaurants, on average, tend to do very poorly financially.

[TheEschaton]

I only tip when I leave a table, not on any particular hand.

-TheE-

[The Ponzzz]

I just went out, spent 200 and tipped 45.

[Xaerve]

I only tip when I leave a table, not on any particular hand.

-TheE-

That does nothing for the 10-20 other dealers you see after sitting at the table for 10 hours! Or however long you stay.

Its not that big of a deal to tip someone a buck when you're betting 20$+ on a bluff all the time, in my opinion.

Get my drift?

And, regardless of whatever your opinion on the subject is--its very customary to tip the dealer in Vegas for sure. Foxwoods charges an atrocious rake, so I don't tip as much there, because dealers get a % out of it.

[Celephais]

That does nothing for the 10-20 other dealers you see after sitting at the table for 10 hours! Or however long you stay.

I thought dealers had some crazy tip-share thing going on, where it's all shared anyway? I know they've got some sharing scheme but I don't know how it's divied.

[Marl]

Tipping explained in my way (super simple)
20% walking in
shitty service = 10% or less depending on how bad
excellent service = 30-50% depending


As for stereotypes
Elderly tip 15-20% nothing more nothing less
Teens tip 0--30% depending on alot of things
Drunks are either feast or famine 40+% or nothing
All in all the norm is 10-20% no matter who/what you are

I ran a resteraunt for around 10 yrs and we paid our wait staff 2-5$ an hour I think min wage for waiters was $2.15 at that time? But at the end of the week counting tips they made well over $15 hr in most cases. If you think you re just tipping the server when you leave that 20 bucks you are wrong most every place of mention splits tips between cooks/servers/hosts/even dishwashers in some cases. But, most places who do that pay their servers decent wages. I usually make sure whoever I am with tips decent but, it still grates my nerves when I find out later they stiffed the server. Case in point, last Wed. I went out with about 6-7 friends and we were drinking quite a bit before and during our meal. The bill was right over $300 including drinks. I found out on the way home that our leader in drunkeness left our lovely waitress a whopping $0.00 tip. I went out of my way on Thurs. to give her $75 just fopr putting up with us. Believe me if you frequent a place and are known as a lousy tipper you will NOT get anything other than quick stops during your meal. Our staff always gave superb service to people they noticed coming in on multiple times, if the tip stayed the same their service went to nothing.

And yea, most big winners in the lotto (scratchers or real) usually tip where they got it if they are still there or frequent it. What I don't get is tipping drivers. I get shuttled alot and I never tip the driver but I get some at shit looks and see others tipping the hell out of them. I could see if I had 5+ bags and he loaded them but usually I have a notebook bag + carry-on and I handle it myself.

[Jazuela]

Tips to the dealer don't go into the dealer's pocket. They get put in a pool and divided according to all kinds of convoluted things based on how many dealers were working that shift, the minimum bet at the tables, how long that dealer was working during that shift, etc. etc. etc. If you tip at some point during the time the dealer is working that day, he is likely to receive some of that tip, whether he goes on break every 20 minutes, or left early, or worked straight through, or went to work a different table.

I don't tip the dealer every hand, but since I play blackjack, I tend to toss a chip to the dealer with every shuffle. They seem to like that, so I see no reason to change the habit.

[Xaerve]

Tips to the dealer don't go into the dealer's pocket. They get put in a pool and divided according to all kinds of convoluted things based on how many dealers were working that shift, the minimum bet at the tables, how long that dealer was working during that shift, etc. etc. etc. If you tip at some point during the time the dealer is working that day, he is likely to receive some of that tip, whether he goes on break every 20 minutes, or left early, or worked straight through, or went to work a different table.


Interesting, I never knew that. They always say "thanks boss," or something in Vegas, so I assumed they got to keep their cup full of chips.

[Kranar]

Casino's a tricky thing...

Some people play at a casino purely for the excitement and the nice environment etc... those same people don't generally play to win money and are just there to have a fun time once in a while.

But if you're playing professionally to actually make a profit in the long run, it seems rediculous to tip the dealer. Especially if it's a game like blackjack where the most money you can win in the long run is roughly 1% of how much you bet.

In poker it's even worse since the rake is 5%-10% each hand. According to most professional poker players, and a statistic first mentioned by Doyle Brunson, the best poker players win only 3 times the big bet per hour, and that's if you're a top tier player. Giving away a tip ontop of the 5-10 percent you are forced to give up already can mean the difference between winning money consistently over the long run and slowly and unnoticably losing money over the long run. On the other hand, that idea of tipping at the very end when you leave for the day is a blow to my argument and I will consider doing that from now on.

So that's my rant... restaurant tipping, sure. Casino tipping, not so sure.

[Artha]

I usually give good restaurant tips because I hate tipping small amounts of money. So if I order a ten dollar meal, I might tip three or four because I can't bear writing 1.50 in the tip thing.

In other words, I make it rain.

[Xaerve]

In other words, I make it rain.

Was that a Lil' Wayne reference?!

[Drew]

Asians don't leave tips?

I thought the stereotype was that senior citizens, teenagers, and black people were bad tippers.


In South Florida it goes like this: jews, senior citizens, black people, large groups of women. In that order. I've seen people run and hide to force someone else to take a table with one of those three groups. Old jews are the worst.

Best tippers are: guys on first dates, business men, and regulars.

We have very few asians in South Florida some I have no idea about that.

Some people are like "those people who avoid people like that are racist", but at least they aren't poor.

[Drew]

Oh yeah, for the original question, you tip 10% on wine, I tip 20% on food. So for your meal I would have tipped 44 dollars. 24 on the food, 20 on the wine.


One thing I do if the service is really truly awful I'll leave a penny, I know some people who won't leave less than 10% or some other number but if you've done such an awful job that it has ruined my meal I feel under no obligation to support you. That said, I've left a penny maybe two times in my life.

[Skeeter]

I don't know why alot of you are associating the lack of a good tip to mean that your young and poor.

I said young and/or poor. big difference.

[Jazuela]

If the service is really BAD, I won't tip anything and speak with the manager. That's regardless of the quality of the food or how much I spent on the meal.

If the food was horrible, and the service was awesome, I'll still tip 20%, and speak with the manager.

Service != food quality and unfortunately sometimes one will be great and the other will suck. In either case, if it sucks, you need to tell the manager before you leave. If it's the food, you can't blame the waiter for that, and the waiter still deserves the tip. If it's the service, you can't blame the cook, so a mention to the manager while you're blasting his waiter about how good the food was, will make sure the cook gets his appropriate kudos.

[Skeeter]

wall of text.

Guess that 65k a year you were making at the rain forest cafe didn't work out.

LOL

[Mistomeer]

At restaurants, I tip between 15%-20% on the bill after tax. If the bill is $300 in alcohol and $250 in food, then I tip on the $550 total.

At casinos I tip if I win a big hand and there's no science to it. It's usually just based on what chips I'm holding.

To answer the original post, the appropriate tip would have been between $48 (15%) and $64 (20%). The waiter makes nothing on the wine mark up.

[Drew]

BTW, in Europe they don't really tip (round up to the nearest Euro) and pay the waiters a salary and the service SUCKKKKKKS. Each waiter has 10-15 tables and they never show up at yours.

[Skeeter]

Heh I never EVER tip the dealer when playing Limit Hold'em Poker. I don't feel bad about it either since at most casino's that I go to, the rake is so high that tipping them ontop of that when you win hurts your expected value.

As for tipping at restaurants, I find I agree mostly with Celephais. While I am a very generous tipper, I don't really have any rational reason why I should be tipping at all. The best reason I can think of is that restaurants, on average, tend to do very poorly financially.

I tip at the end of the session. Usually relative to how much I won.

[Xaerve]

BTW, in Europe they don't really tip (round up to the nearest Euro) and pay the waiters a salary and the service SUCKKKKKKS. Each waiter has 10-15 tables and they never show up at yours.

Nice generalization that is not true. The best service I've ever had in my life was in Amsterdam and the second best was in Prague.

[B2]

Random waitress response.

We are taxed on our sales regardless of what people tip us.

The government assumes we make around 10% (it varies by state) and if we don't report at least that number, it raises flags for us and for our restaurants.

I also have to tip out 5% of my sales.

So if a table leaves me under 15% tip (and as the percentage drops its often combined with the verbal tip: "Thank you SO much! It's so nice to find a server who seems to enjoy her job! We haven't had such good service in a while!") I still have to tip out on my sales, not my tips. So I leave with less money than I'm being taxed on.

If you leave under 5%, I'm paying for your table. I am going to my purse, pulling out my wallet, and tipping the bar, busser, and food runners myself. And then I'm being taxed on the 10% I didn't make.

So if I had a table with a $320 dollar tab, I'd have to give other people 16 bucks. So out of the $40 tip I still have $24. But I'm being taxed on $32. Granted I'm a flipping server and I get it all back, but still.

Delivery drivers get taxed per delivery I think. So if you still the pizza guy, he still claims two bucks for driving to your hours for what the government expects you to give him.

[Xaerve]

Random waitress response.

We are taxed on our sales regardless of what people tip us.

The government assumes we make around 10% (it varies by state) and if we don't report at least that number, it raises flags for us and for our restaurants.

I also have to tip out 5% of my sales.

So if a table leaves me under 15% tip (and as the percentage drops its often combined with the verbal tip: "Thank you SO much! It's so nice to find a server who seems to enjoy her job! We haven't had such good service in a while!") I still have to tip out on my sales, not my tips. So I leave with less money than I'm being taxed on.

If you leave under 5%, I'm paying for your table. I am going to my purse, pulling out my wallet, and tipping the bar, busser, and food runners myself. And then I'm being taxed on the 10% I didn't make.

So if I had a table with a $320 dollar tab, I'd have to give other people 16 bucks. So out of the $40 tip I still have $24. But I'm being taxed on $32. Granted I'm a flipping server and I get it all back, but still.

Delivery drivers get taxed per delivery I think. So if you still the pizza guy, he still claims two bucks for driving to your hours for what the government expects you to give him.

Thank you for the very clear and informative response. This thread is pretty much done now IMO.

[Celephais]

I'm thinking of how to articulate my response to your second point. I have to head out for a bit. I'll be back later on and will respond. I'm not dodging the point though.


Thank you for the very clear and informative response. This thread is pretty much done now IMO.

:(

And B2's statements make it sound like a decent wage with zero tip expectation would be better. If you're afraid you're going to get shitty service, you do what you do with any other service oriented issues, go over their head (It's not like we tip customer support... if they do a shitty job you ask to talk to their manager, if they do a really good job I've often asked to talk to the manager just to say so...)

[Xaerve]

B2's statement answers your question. She's paying taxes regardless of how much you tip on the item.

I guess, personally, I just feel its the right thing to do (tipping the full amount).

[Gan]

I usually tip 20% less $1 for average service when I am eating out with company. If I see the waiter is actually working at good customer service then Its 20%, sometimes more depending on how well I'm impressed with our treatment. I include wine/liquor in the tip calculations, if I cant afford to include the liquor into the tip then I dont need to be eating out, period. If I'm buying a $200.00 bottle of wine, then I should be able to afford to include it in the tip. Its a matter of principal.

With regards to tipping at a casino table. I tip when I color out, not until then. When you tip you're not giving that specific dealer a tip, you're putting a tip into the dealer's till that is collected and split up amongst all dealers at the end of shift.

[Celephais]

B2's statement answers your question. She's paying taxes regardless of how much you tip on the item.

I guess, personally, I just feel its the right thing to do (tipping the full amount).

I guess maybe I'm not making myself clear about saying what it should be, not about what it is. Does it make sense to you that you tip more because you paid more?

B2, I'm curious, when you report your tips, do you do so perfectly honestly? Sure the occasional tip is under 10%, but what with your tips averaging over 15% over the course of a year I doubt you're ever taxed for more than you make.

[AestheticDeath]

Your missing the point somehow Xaerve.

[Latrinsorm]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't take a shot at anyone's personal life.See how these quotes sound:
"You know nothing about nice restaurants, I take it?"
"you have no idea about the high restaurant industry."
"I'm going to assume you live in a box at this point and stop wasting my time responding to you" + wink smiley, making everything ok ;)
"I'm really shocked by the strong opinions, with no knowledge, throughout this thread."

In retrospect I can see how "personal life" is an underdefined term. You get what I mean now, I reckon.
Get off your high horse, or change professions. I'd hate to think someone with a chip on their shoulder like you was teaching my children.lol, I'm not a teacher.
what the hell is your point?My point is that every reason you've advanced (or endorsed) for tipping a waiter applies exactly as well to tipping a teacher (and any number of other professions). For you to not think teachers should also be paid with the tip system is incoherent unless you have some other as yet unmentioned reason.

[Jazuela]

The way we used to do it when I worked for tips...
(rounded figures just to make the math easier, not accurate)

Minimum wage for most people = $5.00
Minimum wage for servers = $3.00

Servers are *assumed* to be making at least $5.00/hour, INCLUDING tips. So we got taxed on a minimum of $5.00/hour, not on the $3.00/hour the boss was paying us. The country has a lower minimum for waiters because the government knows waiters make more than the boss is paying them, in tips, AND because waiters generally aren't going to fess up if they're doing really good with their tip income.

If a waiter makes less than $2.00/hour in tips, it's going to create a tax burden on them. In some restaurants, a 15% gratuity is added to the bill for parties bigger than 5. In some other restaurants, the waiter is paid much better than the standard "less than minimum" and tipping is not allowed at all. In yet other restaurants, the waiter is paid well, but tipping is allowed because the tips don't go directly to the waiter, but instead get pooled and split between the host, all the waiters, the cook, the busboy, and the dishwasher guys. When that happens, the boss will usually add the tip amount to the employee's paycheck in a notation for tax purposes, and the waiter doesn't have the opportunity to stiff out on paying the appropriate taxes because it's done automatically.

Waiting tables is often a thankless job, heh. But if you get into a decent place, the money can make up for it in spades.

[Drew]

Nice generalization that is not true. The best service I've ever had in my life was in Amsterdam and the second best was in Prague.


How many times have you dined in Europe?

[Celephais]

... AND because waiters generally aren't going to fess up if they're doing really good with their tip income.

Exactly why I imagine that whole "i'm getting taxed on what I don't make" argument doesn't hold much water... I really doubt any waiter is actually reporting more than they make in total.


Waiting tables is often a thankless job, heh. But if you get into a decent place, the money can make up for it in spades.

You mean like just about every other job?

[Jazuela]

The last time I worked in an office, I didn't have to deal with screaming kids throwing food across the room with their mothers beaming at them and asking me, "Isn't little Johnny adorable?" And then of course there's the party of drunks at table 4, who think it's funny as hell to tickle me under my armpit while I'm carrying a platter of 5 piping-hot dishes, over my head as required, to table 5 next to them.

No, it really isn't just like any other job. I had one waitress job in Florida where I worked the lunch shift, and it was *NEVER* busy at lunch time, and I'd be lucky to make $30 a WEEK in tips. That was at $2.01 per hour for my actual pay. Obviously I didn't stay long there.

I had another job serving dinner at a pretty decent place in Hamden, where we were actually paid the standard (non-server) minimum wage plus tips, and I'd often come home with $50-80 a day in cash, plus my weekly paycheck.

Bartending was by far the best tipping job I've ever had, not including my 5-year stint as an independant street musician. With bartending, I don't think I ever left the joint on a Friday or Saturday night with less than $100 in cash in my pockets, after 5 hours of working, plus my weekly paycheck. My friend Rachel bartended at a Salsa club, (Stanley would know Van Dome on Hamilton Street :) ) and let me tell you those Hispanics are hard-core tippers. She'd be all kinds of depressed and wonder what was wrong if she walked out of there on a Saturday night with less than $300.

[Ignot]

Well, apparantly being a waiter is one of the all time most difficult jobs ever known to man. Hence the tipping.

[Celephais]

In the respect that it's thankless and you've got to put up with shit, but is made worthwhile because of money... yeah it's still like a lot of other jobs.

If you don't like dealing with people, a career in serving is clearly a mistake (good money or not, career in anything that doesn't make you happy is stupid).

But just about everybody deals with something at work they don't like, and you even said yourself, you just quit that one place because it sucks, if a waiter doesn't like a place... quit.

[Ignot]

I hate people and i work with people everyday.....damn.

[Sean of the Thread]

In South Florida it goes like this: jews, senior citizens, black people, large groups of women. In that order. I've seen people run and hide to force someone else to take a table with one of those three groups. Old jews are the worst.

Best tippers are: guys on first dates, business men, and regulars.

We have very few asians in South Florida some I have no idea about that.

Some people are like "those people who avoid people like that are racist", but at least they aren't poor.


You left out British tourists and Canadians. Awful tippers.

Granted I only bartend weekends but it's a good enough sample for me. The Canadians are usually retirees so I can understand them pinching a penny.. but the fanny pack wearing farmer tanned reebok wearing British need to step it up a notch.

[Drew]

You left out British tourists and Canadians. Awful tippers.

Granted I only bartend weekends but it's a good enough sample for me. The Canadians are usually retirees so I can understand them pinching a penny.. but the fanny pack wearing farmer tanned reebok wearing British need to step it up a notch.


Yeah the Euros are pretty bad, mostly the Canadians seem to tip ok, but the Quebecies are the worst. My sister worked at a nice restaurant and on their menus they put "Tipping at least 15% is customary and expected." I always thought that it was pretty funny how bad it was.

[Sean of the Thread]

That's right you live in the land of Euro tourists and Canadian snow birds too.


Cheers to that brother it's fun shit.

[Tsa`ah]

Wow ... just ... wow.

First, using Steve Steve Buscemi's character in reservoir dogs as a reason not to tip ... pretty fucking lame. Excellent movie, but if you didn't catch the irony of that scene and character ... you're pretty dense.

I'm sure it has been mentioned, but tipping as opposed to salary ensures a few things at any place you're served.

Quality of service
Quality of food
Final bill

These people don't have benefits, they don't get paid overtime, and 2.13 an hour is not enough pay to put up with the bullshit every other customer throws their way.

Up their pay to minimum and go from there depending on the quality of the establishment? Go stand in any customer service line that's wrapped around the corner and see what you get for 7-10 bucks an hour.

The service driven food industry is set up in such a way that there's incentive for the wait staff to treat you, the customer, well. This can't be achieved by giving the staff the same pay scale you'll find at any run of the mill fast food dive.

If you didn't have any complaints about the service, your needs were met and your waiter/waitress deserves their due. Some people are hard to please and with those types ... not having any complaints is akin to a lavish compliment.

If you don't think the customary tip is warranted when you have a very high bill at the end of your dinner, yet have no complaints about the service ... stick with the dollar menu at McDonald's and a 6 pack of Milwaukee's Best on the tailgate, that's more your speed.

I've had plenty of bills that came to the 200 dollar bench mark and further. Since I really don't like paying with a credit card, I'll stop at an ATM for cash. There have been instances where I didn't pull enough cash to cover the bill and the tip ... and in those cases I have always gone straight to the ATM from the establishment and then back again to see that the person waiting on my party got their tip.

There's a good chance that the person who waited on you has probably done a number of 40+ hour weeks. Since their income is tip based ... there's no overtime in it. Your stiffing them 20 bucks on the tip side is about like a Wal-mart employee putting in an extra shift off the clock. If either of them opens their mouth to complain ... they lose their job. Not to mention that the few high end tickets really set the person waiting on your table into over drive, you're their overtime pay ... why fuck them out of it?

If you don't like the idea of tipping, if you don't believe it necessary ... stop eating at any place that doesn't have a drive through or start a campaign to end it and shut your mouth when you pay 40 bucks for a meal you would have paid 20 for ... and the service was deplorable.

[Celephais]

Wow ... just ... wow.

First, using Steve Steve Buscemi's character in reservoir dogs as a reason not to tip ... pretty fucking lame. Excellent movie, but if you didn't catch the irony of that scene and character ... you're pretty dense.

There is something wrong with you, did you read anything I posted? I didn't say we shouldn't tip them, I'm saying our method of tipping is stupid. I don't think anyone here is saying they should make $3 an hour and that's the end of the story.

My biggest complaint is that my tip should change based on if I order the $200 bottle or the $100 bottle at the same place. As it stands I do change my tip based on that but it's not right.

[Alfster]

My tipping style...

At a casino I will never tip, I'm there trying to make as much money as I can. Fuck them.

When I order delivery it depends on how long they tell me it'll take compared to how long it actually takes them to deliver the food.

When I'm at a restaurant I tip based off the server. The food may suck balls, but that's not the servers fault. If the server is retardedly annoying they're not getting shit. However, if they're friendly they'll usually get up to 40% of what I pay.

[Doughboy]

I don't suppose anyone here owns/manages a restaurant?

I would be interested to know what it actually costs to run one, and how much profit they make by not paying waiters minimum wage. Whether they would go under or something if they had to.

I have before I sold. Mind you, I didn't handle any of the really heavy financial parts of it..I ran the kitchen.

I doubt it's nationwide but in South Florida at least if a waiter does not end up making at least minimum wage off of the salary plus tips, the restaurant/establishment in question ends up filling in the remainder of the dollars. Mind you, anything coming from tips that exceeds the minimum wage is pocketed by the server. They're "supposed" to report it on taxes...if that happens or not who knows though. I've signed checks for zero dollars before from waiters that make most of their cash in tips. Which with as low as minimum wage is, it's not that hard to make more cash on just tips in a week.

It's late as hell, so if any of those words strung together made actual sentences....I'll be surprised.


Edited to add:

As far as tipping goes, I base it off of the server. Really good service I'll give them anywhere from 20 to 30 percent. If they really suck (like a waiter I had earlier today) I'll leave a few pennies.

[Methais]

When I order delivery it depends on how long they tell me it'll take compared to how long it actually takes them to deliver the food.

9 times out of 10 if your food arrives later than they tell you on the phone, it has nothing to do with the driver. It's usually either because one of the cooks fucked something up and the food had to be remade, the cooks working that night are just slow and retarded, some dipshit caused a wreck on the road somewhere and the driver got stuck in it, or the driver gets stuck behind some dumb fuck driving 15 mph down the road and there's too much oncoming traffic to get around them. None of these are really anything the driver has any control over, and when you tip the driver, you're tipping only the driver. It doesn't get split up back at the store. Not to mention the driver fee the store pays the driver (either per mile, per delivery or a % of the order, usually per delivery though) usually doesn't scale worth a shit with gas prices.

[Tsa`ah]

There is something wrong with you, did you read anything I posted? I didn't say we shouldn't tip them, I'm saying our method of tipping is stupid. I don't think anyone here is saying they should make $3 an hour and that's the end of the story.

My biggest complaint is that my tip should change based on if I order the $200 bottle or the $100 bottle at the same place. As it stands I do change my tip based on that but it's not right.

Heh ....


I'm curious, is it harder work to carry a $200 bottle of wine than a $100 bottle of win?

Tipping via percent is retarded and as a society we need to stop.

Increase the price of all of the food, increase their wages, and make tipping a "only if it was really good service leave whatever you want" kind of deal.

You apparently skipped over the bit about getting shitty service and over priced food if we moved from tipping to a livable hourly wage.

If you're in an establishment that has such a huge margin of discrepancy in wine price, you can bet your ass that whoever is waiting on you knows a good bit more about wine than you do. You can also safely assume that they know more about it than you because they had to receive sort of an education on the subject so that idiots don't order a wine that would completely demolish the experience of the meal. A good waitress/waiter is going to suggest the best wine to their knowledge to compliment the meal ... and sometimes it will be a more expensive bottle, sometimes it will save you some money.

So yes, it is harder to an extent.

You also missed the part where I mentioned that big tickets often translate to the person recouping the over time they're not paid for.

It's really simple. If you don't agree with tipping more for expensive items ... don't order them. If you don't agree with tipping ... eat McDonald's.

[Celephais]

GAH, I'm banging my head against a wall here, I feel like I'm trying to teach math to verizon, it's not about what the waiter does, if the waiter tells me about two wines, that both go with my meal, if I opt for the cheaper wine why should I tip them less? It's not any goddamn harder for him to pick up the more expensive wine after he's told me about both of them. And you quoted me there re-enforcing my point, I DIDN'T SAY DON'T TIP, I said tip on the service, not a percent. If there is a corollary between the cost of my food and the service, it's coincidence. Why don't I tip on water, but I do on soda?

As for the living wage, if I get shitty service I tell the manager, and the manager repremands appropriately, like any other service oriented market. If I want to get good service I would go to a place that enforces such a policy.

As for the overtime comment, not dodging it, I just think it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You seem to think I'm of the opinion we should be screwing over wait staff, I'm not, wouldn't giving them decent wages with overtime solve that little problem for you? It's not like the waiter is going to be like "oh and I've worked over 40 hours this week, so you'll want to increase your base tip to 30%". It's not like a server who works only 40 hours a week gets more (percentage) big ticket sales, so it's not like they make any more hourly when it's overtime.

[Harli]

In Washington state servers are paid the mim wage. At IHOP(where i worked for 5 years) you are required to submit the amount of tips you make so you can get taxed and you are required to tip your bus boys/girls and dishwashers. I tip the cooks also if they are rocking because it makes my job easier.

The average tip for a 20 dollar meal is around 2-5 bucks there. I think tips should be based on how well your service is, especially if its busy and you are still getting service in a timely manner.


Seat within 60 seconds of walking in the door
Get beverages within 2 minutes of seating.
Get orders within 3 minutes of beverages.
Get salads/soups/bread whatever within 60 seconds of said order.
Food anywhere between 5 to 15 minutes depending on order.
Check-back within 15 minutes of delivering food.
Check within a half hour of delivering food.

Those are the rules a IHOP server has to follow. Now when you look at just one table being served that's not to bad, Add in 50tables on a weekend and i want to stab someone when they leave me a penny.

[Tsa`ah]

No one is suggesting your tip should be increased by 30% if the waiter/waitress is in excess of 40 hours ... just that you pay the tip commiserate of the bill and service.

If you ordered a 200 bottle of wine on top of a 200 dollar food bill ... pay the damn tip. That is the infrequent OT pay they work for but rarely get as it is.

Changing the pay scale of wait staff pretty much ends everything but room service and fast food because it's unlikely that any establishment will be able to still draw enough business from the hike in price and the decline of service.

You can complain to a manager all you want over shitty service when the hourly wage does not reflect tips ... the manager knows you're getting what you pay for. They'll council the service personnel, but at the wage he's offering ... it's not like people are beating down his door for the job.

But back to the big ticket and your inability to comprehend. If a person has waited tables for 46 hours with the average tip coming to around 12 bucks every hour ... that 300+ ticket RARITY is the overtime pay for them. It doesn't matter if they get that particular party on monday or saturday. No one is asking for the tip % to be nothing more than commiserate of the service and food they receive any other day of the week.

Let's not even get into tables that overstay. If you've got a big ticket with the wine, chances are you're going to be in the establishment longer than most ... the longer you stay the less pay the waiter/waitress receives. If you're taking up more than 1 of their tables, the impact is felt by the total number of tables you take up.

And you're going to complain about the tip you pay for wine?

[serra7965]

I can't read through all these posts to see if you got this answer already, so forgive if already stated numerous times.


The typical etiquette would be 15-20% for the food portion and 10-15% for the wine portion. If you take up the table for more than what would be a normal amount of time a table would have been seated for you should tip more, especially if you are taking it for a double sitting...in that case you would want to double the tip.

So considering that your bill was $200 for the wine (tip would should be ($20-$30) and the food was $120 (tip would be $18-$24) your tip was well within the limits of what is acceptable if you didn't over stay your sitting.

[Celephais]

First, yet again, you skipped the issue I am talking about. I go into a restaurant one day, order a $200 wine bottle, and $200 meal, I leave a $80 tip. I go in the next day, and get exactly the same service, except I decide to order a $100 bottle of wine instead. Now I'm supposed to tip $60? What exactly did they do to deserve the cut in tip this time around? Don't tell me "it averages" because that's just stupid, if I go into a place and order water and salads every time because I like to eat healthy, I shouldn't tip less.


But back to the big ticket and your inability to comprehend. If a person has waited tables for 46 hours with the average tip coming to around 12 bucks every hour ... that 300+ ticket RARITY is the overtime pay for them. It doesn't matter if they get that particular party on monday or saturday. No one is asking for the tip % to be nothing more than commiserate of the service and food they receive any other day of the week.

My inability to comprehend? This statement is terrible... you do realize that despite the "rarity" of the ticket, this individuals hourly pay didn't increase because they worked 46 hours... They worked an additional 6 hours, they got an additional 15% compensation for working an additional 15% hours, where "overtime" individuals would have gotten 22% more compensation. Big tickets do NOT factor into this, because they get 15% more big tickets for working the extra hours, big tickets don't start flying in just because you worked overtime.

I don't think the hourly wage increase idea will work because it'd be impossible to switch to it (signs on restaurants that say "we pay our employees good so you don't have to" don't exactly work). I do think that if I go into a place I should tip based on plates and glasses, not based on what was in/on them.

Overstaying tables don't apply to this arguement either because it's going to happen if you bought the $200 bottle or the $100 bottle, and if I ordered two of the $100 bottles, stayed twice as long, shouldn't I leave twice the tip as the person buying just one $200 bottle?

I am not complaining that I have to tip, I'm not trying to cheap out, which I've said so many times now it's ridiculous you would ask that.

[Jazuela]

Just as an aside to the original poster:

Your tip does -not- need to reflect any sales tax. So if the wine was 200 and the meal was 100, and the state tax is 6%, you'd tip based on the wine and the meal (either 300 total, or one percentage amount on the 200 wine, and a different percentage on the 100 meal, depending on how you choose), and not on the total $318 after taxes.

It is customary, regardless of the customer's *preferences,* to tip 10% on all alcoholic beverages. It is also customary, regardless of the customer's preferences, to tip 15% on the rest of the meal. Anything above those two items is a bonus, and that bonus can be a percentage, or a flat dollar amount. My grandmother used to leave exactly 15% plus one penny, heh. Oh and she was old, and Jewish, but even so she still knew to leave at least 15% and never considered stiffing a server.

Since I spent several years working for tips in college and after I graduated, I'm accustomed to the customary tipping etiquette and follow it as well. Even though I'm old, and Jewish. Go figure :)

[CrystalTears]

My god the amount of cheapskates around here. :D

I walk in with the premise that I'm going to tip 20%. Depending on the service is whether I leave more or less, and they have to fuck up big for me to lower the tip.

I tip because someone is doing all the work for me. They're taking me to a nice table, bringing me my food, the beverage, the silverware, my napkin.. I didn't have to do anything but sit down. That alone deserves my tip because lazy people like to be serviced. Heh.

Every place works differently with the tips, so I don't assume what they do so I just tip. Some places pool all their money and then split it. Some share it with the busboys and cooks. Many of them turn in their tips for taxes and some don't. It's a job I never would want to do and I'm thankful that they're there.

If you're not into tipping, go eat at buffets and cafeterias so that you can help yourself and not have to tip anyone. To say that the bill shouldn't be reflective of your tip isn't really fair since the more expensive the meals, the more experienced the wait staff has to be in order to be there in the first place.

Go ahead and tip strictly on service. What are you basing it on? If you go in one day and spend $100 on food and the next day you spend $50, and the service was the same on both days, what kind of tip would you leave? $10 per person in party? Tipping based on the bill is the easiest and most fair for the waiter. Not sure why you would want to refuse them the tip just because you ate less food one day than another. They still brought it to your lazy ass. :tongue:

[Xaerve]

How many times have you dined in Europe?

Most likely more than you, and in more cities than you. :)

[Daniel]

Heh. I'm black and I go out of my way to tip well.

I know how shitty it is to depend on other people for your livlihood and I'd never fuck someone over for a few bucks.

[Stealth]

I disagree on the whole idea of increasing salaries. I have been to places where tips are included or not allowed. The service sucked ass. I typically tip 20% if the service was good...met all my minimum standards. It goes up for better and goes down for worse.

[DeV]

I always tip within a 20%-25% range. If I'm unhappy with a waiter's service I let them know, but they'll still get at least 20%.

[Trouble]

If you're not into tipping, go eat at buffets and cafeterias so that you can help yourself and not have to tip anyone. To say that the bill shouldn't be reflective of your tip isn't really fair since the more expensive the meals, the more experienced the wait staff has to be in order to be there in the first place.

Buffets are always a little iffy for me. I never know how much to tip. I don't like leaving nothing at all, but I also feel cheap if I leave less than the usual 18-20%. I guess a lot depends on how much actual service is involved.

-

As far as delivery goes, unless the rules have changed in the past 10 years (and they probably have), the IRS doesn't have any idea how many deliveries we made over the year and even if the company knows, they don't report it (they just report the amount wages earned, which includes the total of salary and commission) to the IRS. In my four or so years experience in pizza delivery (in a DC suburb with lots of ethnic variety), American blacks (as opposed to African) were the worst tippers by far, not even rounding up to the next 10 cents in some cases. Then maybe lower-class whites.

-

OK so out of curiosity, how much would you all tip for the folowing things:

a) a $12.50 pizza delivery
b) a $14 haircut at a Hair Cuttery type place
c) a $40 cab ride with one piece of real luggage and the rest you handled
d) a $20 bar tab, where you sat at the bar and had 10 drinks

[CrystalTears]

a) I never tipped for pizza delivery. Hmm.
b) I've given a buck or two for a haircut.
c) I hardly ever take a taxi, and when I did, I didn't tip them either. :(
d) $2 drinks?! Where do you go? Take me!!
Oh yeah, I would give them like $5.

[DeV]

a) a $12.50 pizza delivery -- $3
b) a $14 haircut at a Hair Cuttery type place -- $5
c) a $40 cab ride with one piece of real luggage and the rest you handled -- $5
d) a $20 bar tab, where you sat at the bar and had 10 drinks -- I normaly tip $1 for every drink when I buy at the bar.

[Trouble]

a) I never tipped for pizza delivery. Hmm.
b) I've given a buck or two for a haircut.
c) I hardly ever take a taxi, and when I did, I didn't tip them either. :(
d) $2 drinks?! Where do you go? Take me!!
Oh yeah, I would give them like $5.

Hehe they have $1.75 domestic pints at a bar near me (called Ragtime). After happy hour it goes up to $2.50, but that's still cheap for the DC area.

For me, I would tip $1.50 to 2.50 on the pizza, depending on the weather and the condition of the pizza, $3-4 on the haircut, $4-6 on the taxi, and $4-10 on the drinks, depending on how cute the bartender is (sad but true).

[Celephais]

a) I never tipped for pizza delivery. Hmm.
b) I've given a buck or two for a haircut.
c) I hardly ever take a taxi, and when I did, I didn't tip them either. :(
d) $2 drinks?! Where do you go? Take me!!
Oh yeah, I would give them like $5.


My god the amount of cheapskates around here. :D

HA! thanks for the laugh :) two dollar draft promotions are pretty common around here, as are dollare draft promotions... heck there is one place that does a "Nickel night" where each draft is a nickel... they expect you to tip well those nights.

a) $5, and maybe a beer (depends on how far I live from the place too)
b) $6
c) $5
d) Depends on the bartender, I do either $1 a drink or $2 a drink if it's a place I frequent. If it's a "special" I do $2... and special nights I like to get the first few rounds cash so I can tip them right away, before I start a tab.

[Lomoriond]

a) a $12.50 pizza delivery -- $2.50 to $3.50 depending on what kind of change I had available... alot of the time all I have is a 20 and I HATE asking for change back (because they KNOW I could have tipped more), so I'll tack on some breadsticks or a soda and bring it up to $15-16 and let them keep the change... around here they tack on a "delivery fee" so I tend to count that as apart of their tip... does that go to them or not?

b) a $14 haircut at a Hair Cuttery type place -- $6 if I liked it (see the whole "I only had a 20 and don't like getting change" part again) $1 if I didn't. It's hard to find a haircut I "like" so if they do a good job, I not only tip them well, but I go back to that place again and hope the same person is working and I don't bother going back to the same place if the haircut was bleh. Tipping bad at a haircut place is something you LITERALLY have to wear around town!

c) a $40 cab ride with one piece of real luggage and the rest you handled -- Whatever change I happen to have, up to $5. I don't tip as much because $40 for a 30 minute car ride is a bit rediculous to begin with.

d) a $20 bar tab, where you sat at the bar and had 10 drinks -- $5 if I like the bar and/or the bartender, nothing if it's a shit hole with bad service. I still want to know what bartenders make per hour!

[CrystalTears]

Har har, I'm not cheap. There are just some services that I hadn't given that much attention to in the past, but I may start or do more now.

Besides, I have really crappy hair. A haircut on me takes 5 minutes. I went to a Hair Cuttery place once and it was a waste of my time and hers so I don't bother. I either let my aunts do it when I'm in town, or just cut my own ends.

I also don't consider beers a "drink". When I saw drink, I thought of mixed drinks, not beers. I don't do beer.

Anyway, I'm not the one quoting Reservoir Dogs to justify being cheap to waitresses. :tongue:

[Trouble]

Yeah I'm not sure if they get that delivery fee or not. When I delivered there was no delivery fee for Domino's or Pizza Hut. With Domino's I got a 6% commision of the gross value of the orders and with Pizza Hut I got 50 cents per delivery ticket. Both places I received an hourly wage at or slightly higher then minimum wage.

[Celephais]

I also don't consider beers a "drink". When I saw drink, I thought of mixed drinks, not beers. I don't do beer.

Anyway, I'm not the one quoting Reservoir Dogs to justify being cheap to waitresses. :tongue:

There is a place around Storrs that does $2 draft and drinks as their special... I think there is a place in Hartford that does $1 draft, $2 bottle, $3 drink nights too (all "drinks" are bottom shelf).

I myself don't have the balls to be cheap like Mr. Pink... I just wish I did :) That and I'm a creature of habit so I frequent a very small number of establishments, and get a bit of a "regular" treatment, definatly not a good habit if you're cheap.

[TheEschaton]

On the 12.50 pizza, I'd give the guy $15

On the $14 haircut, probably 3 bucks.

On the 40 cab ride, probably pay about 46-48, but I always overtip taxis for some reason.

On the bar tab I always do $1 a drink or 20% of the tab, whichever is MORE.

-TheE-

[Alfster]

OK so out of curiosity, how much would you all tip for the folowing things:

a) a $12.50 pizza delivery
b) a $14 haircut at a Hair Cuttery type place
c) a $40 cab ride with one piece of real luggage and the rest you handled
d) a $20 bar tab, where you sat at the bar and had 10 drinks

A) $5-$7
B) 6 bucks (an even 20)
C) We don't have cabs here
D) 10 beers = 10 dollars here, I'm not paying $2 a beer. I tip every other beer so $5 bucks

[Methais]

around here they tack on a "delivery fee" so I tend to count that as apart of their tip... does that go to them or not?

That depends on the restaurant. Some places charge a delivery fee that the driver never sees (where the money goes I have no idea), but most don't, at least for pizza.


My god the amount of cheapskates around here. :D


a) I never tipped for pizza delivery. Hmm.

Irony much? I hope you don't order from that place very much, because you can be assured that every driver there knows you don't tip, and that will usually have a noticeable effect on your service. A waiter can't really do much to delay your food being brought out to your table, for example. A driver? They have several ways to delay your order while on the road with no managers or anything breathing down their neck. Why should they not deliver your food last, for example, even if you live right around the corner? People who don't tip are generally regarded as assholes, and are treated accordingly most of the time. See my previous post somewhere in this thread where I gave an example ;)

Out of curiosity though, why don't you tip your pizza guy? He's burning up his gas, not the store's gas, putting wear and tear on his car, not the store's car, and the delivery fee the store pays the driver doesn't come close to covering any of that unless you live within walking distance of the store, in which case if someone's too lazy to walk 20 feet down the road and pick their order up and still don't tip, they just fail at life even more.

Not to mention delivery people can and do get robbed, so technically they're also taking a risk by delivering your food. I've worked with people that have had guns stuck in their face on a delivery and their money stolen. One guy a long time ago even got jumped and whacked with a baseball bat, and I don't exactly live in a dangerous town. Granted those usually happen on the ghetto welfare crackhead roads and once something like that happens the store will usually stop delivering to that road altogether (at least my store did), but it still happens. It's not exactly a common thing at least in my town, but it does happen.

Has a waiter ever been jumped by the people at his table and had his money stolen?

[Alfster]

9 times out of 10 if your food arrives later than they tell you on the phone, it has nothing to do with the driver.




Irony much? I hope you don't order from that place very much, because you can be assured that every driver there knows you don't tip, and that will usually have a noticeable effect on your service. A waiter can't really do much to delay your food being brought out to your table, for example. A driver? They have several ways to delay your order while on the road with no managers or anything breathing down their neck.


irony much?

[Sean of the Thread]

I delivered pies back in college... and we fought over the addresses that sucked and gave them last priority shit service.

[Methais]

irony much?

Not really. The difference is in this situation, you're intentionally delaying their order because you know they're not going to tip. The other post you quoted was assuming "normal" circumstances where the customer tips.

[CrystalTears]

I don't order pizza for delivery. I pick mine up. One place is 5 houses away which I walk to, and the other is 2 blocks away which I walk to if the weather is nice (yes I've had my lazy moments and driven there). In fact I haven't ordered pizza delivery in oh, probably 15 years. Hell for that matter, no food gets delivered to my door.

I probably did tip if I ever had it delivered, I honestly can't remember, which is why I put the hmm. I should have been more detailed with that.

Actually, this all reminded me of the sushi place that we're regulars at. It wasn't until this winter that we decided to do take out (they have a take-out window, which is really bizarre yet cool). The first time I went to pickup, I paid with a credit card and gave them a 10% tip. I did this because I know at this place the waiters share their tips with the sushi chefs. My husband said yeah okay, but doesn't usually tip when we do take out. Does anyone else tip for take out?

[Jorddyn]

a) $2 if they call me from downstairs, $3 if they bring it to my door.

b) Nothing. If I'm getting a $14 haircut, I'm going to get the quality of a $14 haircut. When I get my hair cut at the salon, though, I'll tip anywhere from 10-50% depending on how good a job the stylist did.

c) $5. Unless he told me funny stories or gave me a mini-tour on the way, then $10. Of course, my typical cab fare in Iowa City is $7, and I still tip $5.

d) $10. There are few places I would go have ten beers. A couple of them are my regular spots, and I tip $1 a beer. A couple of them are places that are always packed, so overtip on the first few in order to get good service. If I order mixed drinks, especially if it is busy, I tip more. When I was in Maryland and the bartender drew me a map of the east coast to explain where I was, he got a 200% tip. (Yes, he was cute)

e) Food - If the service is decent, I've never been able to bring myself to leave a $1-2 tip. I tend to leave at least $5 regardless of how much I spend. I have left a penny once in my life. At my favorite Mexican Restaurant, I tend to tip at least 50% because the food is so cheap (fajitas + 2 margaritas = $14).

Jorddyn

[Latrinsorm]

Changing the pay scale of wait staff pretty much ends everything but room service and fast food because it's unlikely that any establishment will be able to still draw enough business from the hike in price and the decline of service.This is nonsense. We're already paying them considerably more than minimum wage, it's just done in an archaic, bass-ackwards manner. Your concern that the pay will get any worse or that prices will go up is unsubstantiated in reality. The existence of any good service anywhere in a wage-based regime demonstrates how your service concern is also not a necessary result.

I often wonder what it is you see when you read posts. My guess is the Tsa`ah-vision version of this post goes like this:
"I love Jesus and believe everything in the Bible. I wish waiters would just get shot in the face for being Godless heathen, but the next best thing is to pay them about 2 bucks an hour (preferably less). Clearly, I've never left the plexiglass dome my parents constructed for me in the basement."
I tip because someone is doing all the work for me.Do you tip farmers when you buy produce in the grocery store?

[Gan]

a) a $12.50 pizza delivery
$2.50 tip

b) a $14 haircut at a Hair Cuttery type place
$6 tip if I get a real good scissor cut, if they try to razor me, $4 tip. If I'm at a salon where its all about the shampoo, scissor cut, and massage, then its getting a substantially higher tip. ;)

c) a $40 cab ride with one piece of real luggage and the rest you handled
$6 to $8 depending on how well the ride went, if the driver didnt smoke, yack on the cell phone, had a clean car, and or took a bath. Nothing if the ride was shitty or insanely dangerous. $10 if the driver put above average effort in customer service.

d) a $20 bar tab, where you sat at the bar and had 10 drinks
(where the fuck do you sit at a bar and have 10 drinks for 20 bucks???)
Sounds like a beer tab which merits 5 bucks for 10 drinks if they were bottled, maybe more if it was on tap and the tender gave good 'head'. If the drinks are cocktails which require a higher output of skill, knowledge, etc. then its 20% if the drinks are quality, 15% if they are watered down, and less to nothing if the drinks suck.

[CrystalTears]

Okay Latrin is pulling rabbits out of his ass again for argument's sake. Hey man, if the farmer was in the store handing me the food, I probably would. Where are you're going with this line of reasoning?

Nevermind. I don't want to know.

[Jorddyn]

My husband said yeah okay, but doesn't usually tip when we do take out. Does anyone else tip for take out?

I started leaving a buck or two after living in KC. The first time I picked up takeout there, I didn't put a tip on the CC slip. The lady pushed it back and told me "you forgot the tip!"

It was the restaurant on the first floor of my building, I figured I'd be eating there often, and I didn't want my food spit in, so I consider it more of a "clean food fee" than a tip.

Jorddyn

[Methais]

Do you tip farmers when you buy produce in the grocery store?

That's a pretty retarded example. Everytime you buy produce, the farmer that grew it is making money off it.

Everytime someone orders a steak at a restaurant, the waiter isn't making anything off it....unless you tip them.

[TheEschaton]

Err, I have never tipped for takeout that I picked up. No one had to serve you, no one had to deliver, and I generally don't consider cooks alone to be tip worthy.

-TheE-

[Methais]

Yeah, I've never heard of anyone tipping for take-out before.

[Celephais]

I often wonder what it is you see when you read posts. My guess is the Tsa`ah-vision version of this post goes like this:
"I love Jesus and believe everything in the Bible. I wish waiters would just get shot in the face for being Godless heathen, but the next best thing is to pay them about 2 bucks an hour (preferably less). Clearly, I've never left the plexiglass dome my parents constructed for me in the basement

hehehe...


The lady pushed it back and told me "you forgot the tip!"

Is it bad that I heard in my head, in my worst stereotypical chinese voice "You forgot tip!"

[Sean of the Thread]

I did just catch a bitch adding a tip to my charge slip at a pizza place that I had picked up last week. I had my receipt for $8.55 and a big fat -0- in the tip spot.. showed online as 10.55.

I called.. they said not our fault must be your bank. The last thing they said before we got off the phone was "Do you have your receipt?" YEP. Ok bye.

Next day it showed the correct amount online. Bastards.

[Sean of the Thread]

b) a $14 haircut at a Hair Cuttery type place
$6 tip if I get a real good scissor cut, if they try to razor me, $4 tip. If I'm at a salon where its all about the shampoo, scissor cut, and massage, then its getting a substantially higher tip. ;)



I stiffed my first barber last time.. he pissed me off. Stopped several times for cell phone use to discuss cars.. ran around and was worrying about three customers who were waiting in line to his chair etc.

Then he was rude on my way out. "Have a nice day sir" I thought to myself "I will now douche bag."



*edit My haircuts are cheap but that doesn't mean I want to spend 45 minutes in a fucking chair for a zero fade that other barbers nail in 10 minutes.

[Jorddyn]

hehehe...



Is it bad that I heard in my head, in my worst stereotypical chinese voice "You forgot tip!"

That's actually, uh, a more precise quote of what happened.

Jorddyn

[Methais]

I did just catch a bitch adding a tip to my charge slip at a pizza place that I had picked up last week. I had my receipt for $8.55 and a big fat -0- in the tip spot.. showed online as 10.55.

I called.. they said not our fault must be your bank. The last thing they said before we got off the phone was "Do you have your receipt?" YEP. Ok bye.

Next day it showed the correct amount online. Bastards.

That does happen sometimes, whether you tip or not. Usually if I go out to eat and put it on my card, it'll show up at first on my online statement for a few dollars more than it actually was, then a couple days later it straightens out. I have no idea what causes this, but I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the restaurant, cause it happens almost every time regardless of where I go.

[Alfster]

(where the fuck do you sit at a bar and have 10 drinks for 20 bucks???)

Most of my hometown bars are cheaper than 2 dollars a drink. Double mixers are 2-2.50 though.

[TheEschaton]

DOUBLE mixers are 2-2.50?

This is why I need to go back to the boonies (IE, Buffalo). 50 cent drafts, 2 dollar well drinks, bars which my childhood friend's uncle owns, etc, so on, so forth.

In Boston it's like 4.25 for a beer, and upwards of 5-6 for a mixed drink, single.

-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

Okay Latrin is pulling rabbits out of his ass again for argument's sake. Hey man, if the farmer was in the store handing me the food, I probably would. Where are you're going with this line of reasoning?The farmer does the overwhelming majority of the work for you because you're lazy lol you should tip him too!!!!!!
Everytime you buy produce, the farmer that grew it is making money off itNobody disagrees on whether these people should make money or not. People are disagreeing on why we should tip as opposed to pay people like human beings. I've still yet to see a reason that doesn't apply equally as well to non-tip-based workers. If you and people of your ilk just want to say "this is the way it is", I can't argue with that. The post facto rationalizations don't help anyone.

[CrystalTears]

The thing is that the only real perk to being a waiter and/or bartender is the tips.

If you told someone that they would make the same amount of money whether they worked their ass off to serve people, or did nothing or the bare minimum, what do you think they're going to do? Why would you want to get shitty service just to save yourself a few bucks? Sure they may be those who value their job and will do their best no matter what they get paid, but I believe that for the most part, you get the good service because they're kissing your ass to get that tip. No tip, they'll do the bare minimum.

They work harder to get the bigger tips. If they have no incentive, especially since they have no benefits, what's the point of even bothering to do a good job? It makes you do just enough of a job to not get fired or hassled.

[Warriorbird]

Tip by what you feel is appropriate. Expect being treated badly if you tip extra low.

[Artha]

I'm usually a good tipper - but if you give me shitty service then you can expect exact change.

[Methais]

The farmer does the overwhelming majority of the work for you because you're lazy lol you should tip him too!!!!!!Nobody disagrees on whether these people should make money or not. People are disagreeing on why we should tip as opposed to pay people like human beings. I've still yet to see a reason that doesn't apply equally as well to non-tip-based workers. If you and people of your ilk just want to say "this is the way it is", I can't argue with that. The post facto rationalizations don't help anyone.

All I can say is that if I got paid a few dollars more an hour but didn't make tips, I seriously would have a hard time giving a shit about the customer's service, especially considering what asshats most of them are.

It's called incentive. Is that not good enough for you in your little everything-must-work-exactly-the-same world? What do they call that anyway? Liberal? Communism? I'm pretty ignorant on political terms (since I could care less about politics), so maybe someone can clue me in on the word I'm looking for here.

Not to mention, these jobs typically don't go anywhere...raises and promotions are almost non-existant in most of these jobs, even if you're an awesome worker. If you're working a "normal" job, getting a raise and/or promotion is your incentive to do a good job. If you're waiting tables or delivering food, getting tips is your incentive to do a good job.

[CrystalTears]

so maybe someone can clue me in on the word I'm looking for here.
Asshattery?

[Celephais]

They work harder to get the bigger tips. If they have no incentive, especially since they have no benefits, what's the point of even bothering to do a good job? It makes you do just enough of a job to not get fired or hassled.

You're aware of the parallels to Office Space here aren't you? Really tempted to rattle something off about Chotchikes or how I have to listen to 8 bosses drone on about mission statements. People in those jobs don't get big tips either, no major incentive there.

Why exactly is server one of the jobs that does come with monetary incentives? What's worse is it's something you can't measure, so no matter how great they are, some people still aren't going to tip them more.

[Warriorbird]

"Asshattery?
-CT"


Yeah. Despite being theoretically pretty anti tipping... Communist countries work on bribes.

[CrystalTears]

You're aware of the parallels to Office Space here aren't you? Really tempted to rattle something off about Chotchikes or how I have to listen to 8 bosses drone on about mission statements. People in those jobs don't get big tips either, not major incentive there.
I'm well aware, as I was snickering as I was typing. But I'm betting that Peter had benefits such as paid time off, medical and dental insurance and whatnot. Maybe he should have been a salesman rather than a programmer. ;)

[Sean]

I think more important here is did your date think you were cheap and tell you she had mono instead of putting out for that $200 bottle of wine?

That being said I tip 20%+ mainly because I always try and round to the nearest dollar amount ending in 5 or 0 so if my bill is $22 rather than leaving $26.40 I'll leave $30. I also always round up my change to the nearest dollar. Oddly enough I also tip more at bars than I do restaurants.

[Warriorbird]

I don't tip for unmixed drinks unless I want great service/no wait time later.

[Latrinsorm]

Why would you want to get shitty service just to save yourself a few bucks?And I'm the one pulling things out of my ass? Do try and find a part where I say that waiters make too dang much and that's the problem. Go ahead. Consider this an official dare.
They work harder to get the bigger tips. If they have no incentive, especially since they have no benefits, what's the point of even bothering to do a good job? It makes you do just enough of a job to not get fired or hassled.If that's really the case, why don't we have the tip system for every no-incentive job? Don't we want our janitors to do a great job? If I was you, this would probably be the part where I ask why you want to take food out of the mouths of janitors' kids, eh? After all, it can't be a discussion without baseless, inflammatory accusations, right? I bet that Latrinsorm dickhead kicks puppies. HE MUST BE WRONG.

[Methais]

I bet the janitor gets a raise after a while.

[Celephais]

I bet the janitor gets a raise after a while.

Latrin... it's like we're banging our heads against a wall. And if waiters were switched to a wage system I would bet they would get raises too, funny how that works.

[Danical]

Anyway, I've discussed it with some other folks, and the consensus seems to be that the minimal tip should have been what the corking fee would have been.

This was the norm when I waited tables where the average plate was $75 per seat.

Bring your own bottle next time. I used to always suggest that to my customers. Although, most of my clients knew their tastes, how to pair, and the menu was relatively static. Most called for the specials to help them pair.

[Ignot]

Is this thread still going? I remember going to Amsterdam (barely remember anything) and it is required to tip the club bouncers or else you can't get in. Just thought I would throw that out there. Seems like over there you tip then get service and here you get service and then tip. Anyone else experience this overseas or did we just get the American treatment?

[Kranar]

Latrin... it's like we're banging our heads against a wall. And if waiters were switched to a wage system I would bet they would get raises too, funny how that works.


I totally agree with the both of you on this as well.

When looking at this in a purely rational manner, there is absolutely no reason 1) why tipping benefits the server and client more than a wage increase 2) why tipping is a function of the cost of the meal as opposed to being based purely on quality of service.

However, as I'm sure we all know, social and cultural trends rarely have anything to do with reason and usually more to do with either politics or emotions and as such we have to accept that as being the case.

Consider that even if waiters got an increase in their salary, people will still tip them. What I'm getting from this discussion is that we do not tip because of quality of service, we tip because when we deal with someone face to face who is performing a service to us in person, there's that friendly/personal feeling established. When it comes time to pay, you just get that warm feeling to want to help that person out a bit more than what might be standard and so you leave a tip.

That's why we tip a waiter and not a janitor. No one ever sees the janitor or deals with them in person. No one ever sees the farmer who works just as hard as anyone else trying to pay the bills. These guys work behind the scenes and so no connection is ever made between them and the customer.

This sense and feeling is never going to go away, and so I guess it only makes sense for a business to take it into account and lower the wage of a waiter and have them supplement it by customers directly.

[Sean of the Thread]

That's why we tip a waiter and not a janitor.

What's this "we" shit. I give my garbage men yearly tips during the holidays.

[Sean of the Thread]

UPDATE: 4 mixed drinks tonight for $14 and I gave him $6. That's pretty much normal.

[Kranar]

What's this "we" shit. I give my garbage men yearly tips during the holidays.


Haha, fair enough. Have to admit that is way more generous than most people though.

[Danical]

What's this "we" shit. I give my garbage men yearly tips during the holidays.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

I bought my garbage guy a bottle of Glenlivet Nadurra during christmas time. He now gets out of his truck and walks the empty garbage receptacle to my side porch where I keep it.

[Celephais]

Abso-fucking-lutely.

I bought my garbage guy a bottle of Glenlivet Nadurra during christmas time. He now gets out of his truck and walks the empty garbage receptacle to my side porch where I keep it.

Yeah there are random service jobs that get "christmas bonus" tips. This is utterly stupid too, but it's protection money (well really it's a "cheap way to get a bit better service"). Garbage men, postmen, doormen... the people who you don't really "deal" with, but who provide you with a regular service, and have the ability to royaly screw you if they want to (my parent's garbage men used to sneak into the garage and steal beer...).

[Jazuela]

I get occasional tips at work, but it is -never- expected, because it's just fast food. I don't give good customer service because I'm getting paid more than waitresses do on an hourly wage. I give it because that's the nature of the job, and because I -like- my customers. It's why I work there in the first place. The kinds of tips I get, that I appreciate the most, are holiday cards from regulars, and this one guy who comes in every single day, who was complaining about his cholesteral so I made him switch from fries to a salad (same price) and he practically broke down in tears because this - this - this *fast food cashier* actually cared enough about him to switch it for him. And at the end of the year, he thanked me again, by giving me a $20 bill. And then it was my turn to practically break down in tears, because people just plain don't DO that at fast food joints :)

[AestheticDeath]

Abso-fucking-lutely.

I bought my garbage guy a bottle of Glenlivet Nadurra during christmas time. He now gets out of his truck and walks the empty garbage receptacle to my side porch where I keep it.

That is freaking hilarious!

[Sean of the Thread]

I get occasional tips at work, but it is -never- expected, because it's just fast food. I don't give good customer service because I'm getting paid more than waitresses do on an hourly wage. I give it because that's the nature of the job, and because I -like- my customers. It's why I work there in the first place. The kinds of tips I get, that I appreciate the most, are holiday cards from regulars, and this one guy who comes in every single day, who was complaining about his cholesteral so I made him switch from fries to a salad (same price) and he practically broke down in tears because this - this - this *fast food cashier* actually cared enough about him to switch it for him. And at the end of the year, he thanked me again, by giving me a $20 bill. And then it was my turn to practically break down in tears, because people just plain don't DO that at fast food joints :)

You just said you didn't work at Bugger King in another thread.

[Jazuela]

Uh, no. The only thing I can think of that you'd be talking about, is when I said I don't have to work for a living. Not that I don't work, and not that I don't work at Burger King. I work at Burger King, have for the past three years, except for a couple of weeks after I walked out and then got begged back, with a raise and a promise for improved working conditions.

[Sean of the Thread]

except for a couple of weeks after I walked out and then got begged back, with a raise and a promise for improved working conditions.

Sounds like a very happy job.. I mean other than the walking out due to poor working conditions.

[Methais]

Uh, no. The only thing I can think of that you'd be talking about, is when I said I don't have to work for a living. Not that I don't work, and not that I don't work at Burger King. I work at Burger King, have for the past three years, except for a couple of weeks after I walked out and then got begged back, with a raise and a promise for improved working conditions.

I'm confused. Did you just say you don't have to work for a living, but you work at Burger King anyway? Why?

[Kranar]

I could imagine that if you're retired but don't feel like sitting around all day long you might take up a low maintenance low responsibility job.

[TheEschaton]

What the fuck, does BK pay you to do PR on random forums? No one give a fuck about your heart warming stories from Burger Land, where you work just because you like the fat slobs who come into Burger King EVERY DAY (!?!?!?), and not because you actually need the money.

-TheE-

[Skeeter]

burger king h8rs

Also, I always feel like I should tip the trash guy, but I just can't figure out where to leave the tip. Especially in my neighborhood they don't even get out of the truck, it has those side loader things and just grabs the can on the fly.

Tipping the mailman was easy to figure out.

[Celephais]

What the fuck, does BK pay you to do PR on random forums? No one give a fuck about your heart warming stories from Burger Land, where you work just because you like the fat slobs who come into Burger King EVERY DAY (!?!?!?), and not because you actually need the money.

-TheE-

I was actually very tempted to post saying thank you for sharing that story. Actually someone else brought up BK first in the car thread...

[Celephais]

Tipping the mailman was easy to figure out.

My sister and her crazy friend once (when like 14) decided to make an mailman appreciation day (is there one? not sure if they pulled it out of their ass). And made all sorts of stupid crafts and card type things and stuffed them in the mailbox addressed to the mailman. ... actually just today the fedex guy was in a super cheery mood and it made me feel pretty good after dealing with him...

too bad they're near impossible to tip short of just whipping it out when you get a package... er...

*Edit to add... Feb 4th apparently... there are E-Cards (who knows their fucking mailmans email address?)

*SHIT! I missed thumb appreciation day...

[Kranar]

What the fuck, does BK pay you to do PR on random forums? No one give a fuck about your heart warming stories from Burger Land, where you work just because you like the fat slobs who come into Burger King EVERY DAY (!?!?!?), and not because you actually need the money.


Wow this is a really weird post that came from out of nowhere.

[Ignot]

whats wrong with BK? Personally, i can think of other things i would do if i didnt have to work but ....whatever.

[SpunGirl]

My most well-tipped service person is the lady who waxes my brows (yes, I'm too much of a crybaby to do them myself). She charges $12, far below the norm, and does an awesome job. I give her $20 every time. She squeezes me in WHENEVER I have an errant hair, whether it's earlier than her usual start time, later, whatever.

Personally, I think Stretch started this entire thread just to advertise the fact that he buys $200 bottles of bordeaux.

Just kidding.

On topic, I remember reading a study during my undergrad days about waitstaff's perception of the customer in relation to the tips left. VERY few of them tthough to associate poor tips with poor service - they thought that the person was cheap, didn't have extra cash, whatev. We tend to over-tip, because I certainly believe in karma.

As for the casinos thing, dealers share tips. I don't know of ANY Vegas casino where dealers go for their own. If you're playing at the Wynn, the floor supervisors are now sharing in those tips. Use this as leverage when you're trying to get the to jack up your comps/adjust your rating.

-K

[Sean of the Thread]

I could imagine that if you're retired but don't feel like sitting around all day long you might take up a low maintenance low responsibility job.

That's a busy greasy underpaid dealing with punk teens shit hole job.

If I was retired and wanted some low maintenance work I can think of many many other things besides slinging fries.

http://www.americanangst.com/dingfries.html

nah nah nah nah
nah nah nah nah
da da da da
da da da da

da da da da
da da da da
da da da da
da da da da

I work at burger king making flame broiled whoppers
I wear paper hats
Would you like an apple pie with that?
Would you like an apple pie with that?

Ding fries are done
Ding fries are done
Ding fries are done
Ding fries are done

I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run
I gotta run

Don't bob for fries in hot fat
it really hurts bad
and so do skin grafts
Would you like an apple pie with that?
Would you like an apple pie with that?

Where is the bell?
Wait for the bell
Can't hear the bell
Where is the bell?

Ding fries are done
Ding fries are done
Ding fries are done
Ding fries are done

I work at burger king making flame broiled whoppers
I wear paper hats
Would you like an apple pie with that?
Would you like an apple pie with that?

Ding fries are done
Ding fries are done
Ding fries are done
Diiiing friiiiies aaaaare dooooooone

[TheEschaton]

See?!? Sean2 supports my wanton insulting.

YES!!!

-TheE-

[SpunGirl]

Also, my trash guys will get no tip from me. I hate them. I noticed about a month after we moved in (to one of the more "upscale" vegas area neighborhoods) that the fuckers were putting my trash can like five feet out into the street, and that I wasn't the only one. Also, on the occassion that finally tweaked me bad (last Friday), they didn't even empty ALL the trash from the bin. Lazy fuckers.

I took pictures of my bin in the street, and the two others. I took a picture of the leftover trash. I taped the pictures to the top of the bin with a note that said, "The next time I have to ask that you empty all the trash and put my garbage can back on the sidewalk, I'll be making the request to your supervisors."

Fucking trash guys.

-K

[Daniel]

I'm sure they gave a fuck.

[Drew]

I'm sure they gave a fuck.

Trashmen get payed a lot of money for the job, so, yeah, they probably do.

[Alfster]

Trashmen get payed a lot of money for the job, so, yeah, they probably do.

They probably care enough to do it one more time to really piss her off.

That's what I would do. (And no, I'm not saying I hate spun)

[CrystalTears]

And I'm the one pulling things out of my ass? Do try and find a part where I say that waiters make too dang much and that's the problem. Go ahead. Consider this an official dare.
You don't feel you should have to tip them. That's a few bucks you would save yourself everytime you went out to eat, no?

If that's really the case, why don't we have the tip system for every no-incentive job? Don't we want our janitors to do a great job? If I was you, this would probably be the part where I ask why you want to take food out of the mouths of janitors' kids, eh? After all, it can't be a discussion without baseless, inflammatory accusations, right? I bet that Latrinsorm dickhead kicks puppies. HE MUST BE WRONG.
I don't know why I bother answering your request for reasons when you're never going to approve of them anyway. Besides, who says that janitors don't have benefits? And if they decide to make every customer service job with no benefits to be lower wages with tips, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

[Jazuela]

I never thought of a janitor as a customer service job. Their job responsibilities don't usually include "handling customer complaints" or "delivering service in a cheerful manner" or "efficient movement of the customer's trash from point A to point B while the customer is present" or "taking customer orders" or anything like that. So no, I wouldn't tip the janitor.

But I would tip a maid or concierge in a hotel, because the maid is dealing with the personal space I'm paying for, and the concierge is handling direct requests from me (the customer).

If I lived in a condo or apartment complex that had a janitor on the premises,I would probably tip him, just like I would probably tip the doorman if there was one. But that would be more a bonus at the end of the year, to say "thanks for going out of your way to make this place feel like home, since it -is- home." If the janitor was in an office environment and I was an employee in that building, I wouldn't tip him at all, because we're both just "the hired help" and aren't obligated in any way, shape, or form, to extend that kind of courtesy to each other.

[CrystalTears]

:yeahthat:

[Xaerve]

I tipped 25% last night, DID YOU?!

[Necromancer]

To be clear...people realize that in the vast majority of states severs make less than $3 an hour, right?

[Necromancer]

To be clear...people realize that in the vast majority of states servers make less than $3 an hour, right?

[SpunGirl]

It's nice when service people perform the service they're actually paid for. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm unmoved by getting service I paid for - not overjoyed that someone actually did their job.

However, I do make a point of noticing people who go above and beyond. Example - one night Jake and I ordered delivery from this local Greek place. I had a bunch of cash on the counter because we were going to Colorado the next day. The bill was 19 something, I gave the guy what I thought were two tens and a five. A few minutes later he's knocking on my door, going, "Miss, miss! You are giving me hundred dollar bill!" He gave it back, I gave him a $20, and after he left I called his manager to make sure she knew that she had this totally awesome honest employee on her hands. He definitely could have run off with the money, and I never would have known until the next day.

-K

[SpunGirl]

PS - Funny, my trashcan was put back in exactly the same place I left it this morning, only this time, miraculously free of trash. It seems they *did* give a fuck.

-K

[Necromancer]

The average meal lasts for...maybe an hour? The average tip is...$10-15? (that's being really generous)

Most people who work in offices make more than that to check their e-mail for an hour.

That's what kills me about attitudes towards tipping and servers in general. A server busts their arse the entire time they're at work; they run around like crazy, get treated like garbage, often have to take personal responsibility for the customer's emotional state, deal with incredibly high stress and fast-paced situations that most people will freely admit they are incapable of dealing with, and then people will still say they haven't earned their paltry tip.

I'd like to see half of the customers work that hard for $8.

(nothing specific against you N, just a general sentiment on my part)

[Miss X]

That's what kills me about attitudes towards tipping and servers in general. A server busts their arse the entire time they're at work; they run around like crazy, get treated like garbage, often have to take personal responsibility for the customer's emotional state, deal with incredibly high stress and fast-paced situations that most people will freely admit they are incapable of dealing with, and then people will still say they haven't earned their paltry tip.

I'd like to see half of the customers work that hard for $8.

Uh... I'm an RN. My job is like that every day. I still don't get a tip.

[DeV]

Your salary is not based on the fact that you will be tipped at some point during the course of your work day and pay taxes on the amount of your tips combined. Other than that, I agree that most people who work for a living bust their ass every day.

[CrystalTears]

No offense, but I'll be damned if I'm tipping my doctors or nurses with the amount of money they charge me for an aspirin or a general physical.

Anyway, I'm not up for discussing who works harder. That would just be a never ending bitching thread.

[Stanley Burrell]

You should tape a wad of green Monopoly money to the side of your trash can, Spun.

Then again, they could probably fuck with you a lot worse seeing as they are government employees. Maybe call up the local sanit0rization dep.

[Miss X]

It's different in the UK obviously. Waiters get paid minimum wage or more and still get tips, health care is free. This is why I don't tip often. If my patients are gonna start tipping me for setting their IV up (my job that I'm already paid for) then I'll start tipping waiters for serving my food (their job that they're already paid for.)

[Stanley Burrell]

All shall tip Miss X sexily.

[Necromancer]

Honestly, the person with a desk job in the US works only 50-60% of their hours. The rest of the time they're checking E-mail, surfing the web, zoning out, etc.

And, frankly, there's nothing wrong with that. 8 hours straight is a LONG time to work.

But imagine a day where there are no breaks. There is no lunch break (HA, you want a what?). There's no zoning out and checking your E-mail. There's not even any sitting down. Those days where you have more piled up on your to-do list that MUST be done in an amount of time that just doesn't seem possible? That's every minute of every day. Imagine if you didn't have time to make a physical list of the fifteen or so rapidly changing things you have to do, and you've got instructions and demands being barked at you from all sides with no regard to what is currently on your list- because really how could they possibly know? Imagine that you have to maintain the biggest smile you can and must indulge the often odd individual tastes and emotional states of a hundred or so people generally expressed in a way that those individuals can't fathom dealing with at any point in their day, let alone at work ("This steak is too rare. I can't eat this!" As opposed to, "I personally prefer my steak a bit more cooked, would you mind overly cooking this a bit longer? Thanks a lot.").

Then imagine cleaning up for an hour or two after being on your feet for 7 hours, knowing you're getting paid $3 an hour for that cleaning with no benefits (which comprise 40-60% of the average compensation package in the US). Imagine working two shifts back-to-back several times a week with no more than an hour of break time in between. Working from 4pm until 12:30 and then coming back the next morning to open and, since you're scheduled for a double that day, working until 12:30 again. No sick days. If you can't make it, it is your responsibility to find someone else to cover. If you cannot, you lose your job. No vacation days (vacation, what's that?). No holidays off for most of the staff ("You can't ALL have the week of Christmas off guys, I'm sorry! We're very busy that time of year")

And that's not even fine dining! The truth of the matter is that one of the reasons why restaurants have such high turnover rates is simply that the vast majority of people don't have what it takes to be a server. They can't think fast enough, they can't move fast enough, they can't instantly prioritize a huge influx of information and tasks, and they can't emotionally handle the abuse from customers (and often employers). As someone that did hiring (and unfortunately firing) at a restaurant, I can vouch that it's rare to find someone who is capable of being anything more than an average server (which is why you get a lot of average servers at places that don't pay well).

A lot of people on here can imagine those kinds of working conditions for a variety of reasons (Being a mother, for one. Talk about never getting a lunch break! Working as an RN- one of the most overworked, underappreciated professions in the US. etc), but most people really can't fathom. Yeah, everyone works hard, but jobs aren't equally demanding.

Though, straight up...as someone who's hyperactive and loves being around people, it's the desk jobs that would kill me personally. I can't sit still that long- it's painful. And I can't function at that level without a lot of external pressure/stress to focus and motivate me. So it's not like serving is hell. It's just astoundingly demanding work. I've had office jobs, and I've had restaurant jobs, and the office jobs were cake in comparison (just somewhat miserable for me personally).

[GuildRat]

It's different in the UK obviously. Waiters get paid minimum wage or more and still get tips, health care is free. This is why I don't tip often. If my patients are gonna start tipping me for setting their IV up (my job that I'm already paid for) then I'll start tipping waiters for serving my food (their job that they're already paid for.)


Normal cheap-assed mentality for a female.....nuff said.

[Miss X]

Normal cheap-assed mentality for a female.....nuff said.

Thanks for providing us with that snippet of intellectual wizardry.