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Jorddyn
03-01-2007, 01:25 AM
Disclaimer: I am (quite obviously) not a Constitutional scholar.

I once heard the statement that one of the biggest problem with our country is that it's based around rights rather than responsibilities. At the time, I thought it sounded a bit Communist (for the greater good!), but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to me.

Re: Gun thread - We have the right to keep and bear arms. Why does it not also state that we have the responsibility to be careful with them? Why does it not state that we have the responsibility to learn about them before we buy an arsenal?

So, it got me thinking. Here is my new version of the ten commandments. Or Bill of Rights. Or whatever.

1. You have the right to speak freely. You have the responsibility to not be a dumbass and scream "FIRE" in a crowded theater, or "OMG JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE" in the middle of a mob of 13 year old girls.

2. You have the right to bear arms. You have the responsibility to not be a dumbass and shoot your best friend in the kneecap.

3. You have the right to your property. You have the responsibility to help maintain public property. Yes, this means you have to pay taxes. See, now it's in the Constitution. Stop objecting. Dumbass.

4. You have the right to not be searched without cause. You have the responsibility to not provide cause. So stop breaking the law, dumbass.

5. You have the right to due process and freedom from double jeopardy. You have the responsibility to not abuse this process and appeal 18 times when we have your DNA, a video of you committing the crime, a dozen witnesses including your mother, and the victim who has known you for over a decade all incriminating you.

6. You have the right to a trial by jury. You have the responsibility to perform jury duty so long as you are not a dumbass.

7. You have the right to a civil trial by jury. You have the responsibility to perform jury duty, and to not award billion dollar paydays in the hopes that someday someone will return the favor. You also have the responsibility to not sue for something you did/caused/said because you are a dumbass.

8. You have the right to avoid cruel and unusual punishment. You have the responsibility to understand that punishment is, by nature, not fun. You have the responsibility to suck it up, get it over with, and not do it again. Dumbass.

9. You have rights that haven't been spelled out here. You have the responsibility to understand that these rights are in fact limited. You also have responsibilities not spelled out here. Don't be a dumbass.

10. Anything we haven't spelled out here is to be determined by your state. It is your responsibility to either try to change your state's laws, or move if you don't like them.

And, because I feel like adding it...

11. You have the right to your own body - do whatever you want with it. You have the responsibility to not effect other people's bodies. Do as your mom said, and keep your hands to yourself. Dumbass.


Yup, that should about do it.

Problem solved.

Jorddyn, not usually a dumbass

Latrinsorm
03-01-2007, 12:03 PM
Why does it not also state that we have the responsibility to be careful with them?Philosophy dudes, especially Enlightenment philosophy dudes, define "rights" so that they imply responsibilities. You can see this most clearly in Hobbes and Kant (clear being a relative term), but it's a general trend. With Kant especially the whole point of government is to ensure that we do what we would do anyways if we were behaving reasonably all the time.

Then you get this whole personalist subjectivist crapola and basically everyone starts acting like a dumbass. C'est la vie!

Artha
03-01-2007, 03:23 PM
Why does it not also state that we have the responsibility to be careful with them?

Nobody ever quotes the whole thing. You have the right to bear arms for the purpose of maintaining a well-regulated militia. Anyone in a well-regulated militia should obviously understand gun maintenance and safety.

The other thing you need to remember with the rights is that it's not just you that has them, everybody else does too. And so when you exercising your rights violates someone else's in turn, you're out of line and can't stretch your rights that far. This is pretty clearly illustrated with the first amendment's inability to protect obscene speech. Obscene speech, by definition, exists only to be obscene...and while there's some leeway in interpreting it, it's not protected because it infringes on the rights of everyone who sees it.

The same mostly goes for everything else on the bill of rights, except the third one because it's remarkably straightforward.

Also:

9. You have rights that haven't been spelled out here. You have the responsibility to understand that these rights are in fact limited. You also have responsibilities not spelled out here. Don't be a dumbass.

10. Anything we haven't spelled out here is to be determined by your state. It is your responsibility to either try to change your state's laws, or move if you don't like them.
These two actually exist because if they weren't there, you could make a good argument that your rights are limited. Obviously there's stuff we can't do, like for example theft, but we can't do these things because they interfere with other's rights...not because we don't possess the right itself.

Gan
03-01-2007, 04:20 PM
Imagine the concept of:

Moving elsewhere if you live someplace where you dislike the living conditions (laws, climate, people, job).

INCONCEIVEABLE!

Shari
03-01-2007, 08:37 PM
5. You have the right to due process and freedom from double jeopardy. You have the responsibility to not abuse this process and appeal 18 times when we have your DNA, a video of you committing the crime, a dozen witnesses including your mother, and the victim who has known you for over a decade all incriminating you.


This one was my fave.

Tolwynn
03-01-2007, 08:54 PM
If number 6 were implemented in our sue-happy society, we'd run out of potential jurors in what, a month, tops?

Back
03-01-2007, 09:01 PM
Woah, all that and brains too?

Jorddyn
03-01-2007, 09:43 PM
If number 6 were implemented in our sue-happy society, we'd run out of potential jurors in what, a month, tops?

See also: 7.

Jorddyn

Daniel
03-02-2007, 04:20 AM
OMG JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE" in the middle of a mob of 13 year old girls.

^


hahahahahahahahahahahahaaha

Stop giving me ideas.

Daniel
03-02-2007, 04:21 AM
Also, I think the sense of entitlement in America is pretty sickening now adays. That is why I support a mandatory service requirement.

TheEschaton
03-02-2007, 01:34 PM
Uh, everyone already has a right to a trial by jury in criminal matters. There is not such a right in civil matters (IE, the billion dollar payouts), it just often works out that way.