Obama Officially Declares Himself In

[Apathy]

Let's just hope he doesn't get crushed by the $Clinton$ machine and turned into a running-mate (video link available on CNN).



SPRINGFIELD, Illinois (CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama stood before a cheering crowd in his home state Saturday and announced he will seek the 2008 Democratic nomination for president.

Invoking the memory of fellow Illinoisan and the 16th president of the United States, Abraham Lincoln, the first-term senator addressed thousands packed into the Springfield, Illinois, town square on a chilly day in America's heartland.

To chants of "Obama! Obama!," he told the crowd: "It was here, in Springfield, where North, South, East and West come together that I was reminded of the essential decency of the American people -- where I came to believe that through this decency, we can build a more hopeful America."

If the 45-year-old Obama were elected, he would become the nation's first African-American president.

"And that is why, in the shadow of the Old State Capitol, where Lincoln once called on a divided house to stand together, where common hopes and common dreams still live, I stand before you today to announce my candidacy for president of the United States of America."

Obama told the crowd he would tackle problems like poor schools, economic hardships and oil dependence, saying a "failure of leadership" is to blame for not meeting the nation's challenges. He also implored the crowd to demand that there be "universal health care in America by the end of the president's first term."

He called the Iraq war a "tragic mistake" and said, "It's time to admit that no amount of American lives can resolve the political disagreement that lies at the heart of someone else's civil war. That's why I have a plan that will bring our combat troops home by March of 2008.

"Letting the Iraqis know that we will not be there forever is our last, best hope to pressure the Sunni and Shia to come to the table and find peace," he said.

He also lauded what he called the founding fathers' "genius" in creating a system of government that can be changed. He cited examples throughout history -- from the American Revolution to the Civil War to the Great Depression -- in which Americans have demanded, and effected, change.

"We've done this before. Each and every time, a new generation has risen up and done what's needed to be done. Today we are called once more, and it is time for our generation to answer that call," he said.

The absence of sound policy is not what's holding the country back, he said.

Rather, Obama said, "what's stopped us is the failure of leadership, the smallness of our politics -- the ease with which we're distracted by the petty and trivial, our chronic avoidance of tough decisions, our preference for scoring cheap political points instead of rolling up our sleeves and building a working consensus to tackle the big problems of America."

Brief tenure no obstacle
The senator acknowledged that he hasn't been in Washington long, but said he is familiar enough with the city's political machinations to understand that change is in order.

"I recognize there is a certain presumptuousness in this -- a certain audacity -- to this announcement," Obama said. "I know that I haven't spent a lot of time learning the ways of Washington, but I've been there long enough to know that the ways of Washington must change.

He added, "People who love their country can change it."

Admitting the tactic is typical of aspiring candidates, Obama promised to overhaul a political system he says is dominated by lobbyists and special interest groups "who've turned our government into a game only they can afford to play."

"They write the checks and you get stuck with the bills, they get the access while you get to write a letter, they think they own this government, but we're here today to take it back. The time for that kind of politics is over," he said. "It's time to turn the page right here and right now."

Obama, the son of a black Kenyan father and white American mother, then invoked Lincoln again.

"He had his doubts. He had his defeats. He had his setbacks, but through his will and his words, he moved a nation and helped free a people."

Despite his brief tenure in the Senate, Obama has quickly gained popularity as he pondered his bid to break the Oval Office's color barrier.

According to a University of New Hampshire Survey Research Center conducted this month, Obama placed second, behind Sen. Hillary Clinton, among New Hampshire Democratic primary voters. Obama snared 21 percent of the vote in that popularity poll, trailing Clinton by 14 points.

Other Democrats seeking the office include Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware; Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut; former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina; Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich; New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson; Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack and Sen. Clinton of New York.

While speculation abounds over whether a black presidential candidate can be viable, Obama -- whose first name comes from the Swahili word for "one who is blessed" -- has not let the color of skin hinder his career.

He attended Harvard and Columbia universities and was the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. He entered politics in Illinois, where he practiced civil rights law and taught at the University of Chicago Law School.

His first foray into politics came in 1997, when he took his seat in the state Senate, where he served until 2005. He was sworn in as a U.S. senator in 2005.

[Alfster]

he has no chance

[Miss X]

Hot Prez alert. I'd even start liking America again for him. ;)

[ElanthianSiren]

Hot Prez alert. I'd even start liking America again for him. ;)

:lol: Do you even watch with the sound on? He's a very smooth speaker too.

-M

[Sean of the Thread]

Which happens to be all he is really good at.

[Alfster]

I hear he's good at terrorism (Rofl)

[Artha]

I'd vote for him.

[Gan]

Hillary's going to make him her bitch before the election season is over.

He'll make a good VP under Hillary for the Dem ticket.

Of course, the idea of a black man serving behind a white lady in the white house might not go over well with some...

[Daniel]

It's better than two rich white men.

[Sean of the Thread]

2 rich white men > puppet uncle tom black man?

[Daniel]

Who is Obama a puppet to?

[Sean of the Thread]

Rich white men?

I'm just being an ass since you decided to bring race into the discussion via an inflammatory comment for whatever reason.

[Daniel]

Lol. Okay.

[Parkbandit]

Which happens to be all he is really good at.

In his defense, he also has a couple other things in his favor:

1) He's not John Kerry
2) He's not Al Gore

[Sean of the Thread]

Touche...

[Tsa`ah]

Hillary's going to make him her bitch before the election season is over.

I very much doubt this will happen.

Hillary tried the preemptive smudge campaign not more than 3 weeks ago and it came back to bite her in the ass. She has since back pedaled and is hiding behind the excuse that it was her "people" and not her.

The claim was that Obama attended a very orthodox "pro martyr" school as a child ... which was completely false.

Obama hasn't missed a step. Within a day after a report comparing the total campaign cash between Obama and Clinton, Obama inquired about returning contributions after the campaign. This is something no Clinton would ever consider, especially considering Obama has started with less than a mill, while the Clinton camp has a sickening amount of cash to start with.

Obama, despite being an excellent orator (so much better than even slick Willy), hasn't hid behind verbal garbage to hide stances. In a recent interview concerning remarks made by the Aussie PM, Obama pretty much said the PM was spewing a bunch of shit about Iraq. With a total of 1.4 k troops on the ground in Iraq, they didn't have much room to talk .... pony up another 14k and come back to the table.

I think the biggest hurdle Obama will face in this election will be the issue of his total political experience. He has the current president, and several other historical figures to use as examples concerning that specific issue.

Hillary has a bigger hurdle to cross. She's likable only in certain very specific demographics ... Obama is likable across the page.

[Drew2]

Hot Prez alert. I'd even start liking America again for him. ;)

Your taste in men is absolutely disgusting.

[Back]

Hillary tried the preemptive smudge campaign not more than 3 weeks ago and it came back to bite her in the ass. She has since back pedaled and is hiding behind the excuse that it was her "people" and not her.

The claim was that Obama attended a very orthodox "pro martyr" school as a child ... which was completely false.

Where did you read about this? As far as I know the claim that it came from Clinton’s camp is from an anonymous conservative source first reported from a conservative rag.

[TheEschaton]

I heard the same thing as Backlash. IE, it was made up out of whole cloth, and pinned on Hillary's camp in an effort more to smear her than Obama.

-TheE-

[Parkbandit]

Those fucking Republicans are geniuses..

"It was Hillary!"

"It was Republicans, blaming Hillary!"

"It was Osama, blaming the Republicans, blaming Hillary!"

Which way did he go George... which way did he go!?

[Tsa`ah]

Unless the GOP or another conservative group has access to her campaign web page, then I'm not buying it.

The entire smear was plastered on her campaign page and pulled within hours of Obama setting the facts straight.


If it was spin passed to her "people" by someone on the other side of the political fence, they should have investigated first before they posted it.

Hell, let's be real here ... the calibre of the Hillary camp is to smear, no surprise she tried to draw first blood before the horses were out of the gate.

[Parkbandit]

I bet it was George Bush... that bastard

[Drew2]

A teacher here had a bumper sticker that said "Is it 2008 yet?".

It took me a full 10 minutes to get it.

[Back]

Obama on 60 Minutes last night (http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2459484n).

I’m sold. Now that he has fully put himself in the mix, after listening to his ideas and considering the competition from both his own party and the republicans, I’m backing Obama '08.

The question is... who will be his running mate. He has an idea already. Doubt he would have entered fully if he did not have that ace in the hole. Biden would be great, but then again he might make a better Secretary of Defense.

[Latrinsorm]

Who else? Peyton Manning. If you like 6'4"... 230 pound vice presidents... laser... rocket tiebreaker votes in the Senate.

[Back]

Who else? Peyton Manning. If you like 6'4"... 230 pound vice presidents... laser... rocket tiebreaker votes in the Senate.

You know... not far off the mark there Latrin. Washington needs new faces.

But Manning would have to go for the presidency with Dominic Rhodes or Joseph Addai as VP and Tony Dungy as Sec of Defense.

[Stretch]

I think that David Palmer should run.

[Hulkein]

Obama on 60 Minutes last night (http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2459484n).

I’m sold. Now that he has fully put himself in the mix, after listening to his ideas and considering the competition from both his own party and the republicans, I’m backing Obama '08.

The question is... who will be his running mate. He has an idea already. Doubt he would have entered fully if he did not have that ace in the hole. Biden would be great, but then again he might make a better Secretary of Defense.

Biden is a retard.

[peam]

Didn't stop Bush.

[Back]

Biden is a retard.

Or maybe Murtha. Or maybe Webb?

[Artha]

I'd vote Obama/Webb unless the GOP ran Superman or something.

[Back]

I'd vote Obama/Webb unless the GOP ran Superman or something.

Dude, at this point? The GOP needs to nominate GOD himself.

[peam]

Superman wouldn't worry me, as Batman is clearly a Democrat.

[Artha]

Dude, at this point? The GOP needs to nominate GOD himself.
I think if they can find a relatively unknown (meaning he won't have a lot of dirt), fairly moderate presidential candidate with a bible-loving, southern vice president to woo the religious right...it'll be a close race.

But I like what Obama's saying about corruption, I'm unafraid of his inexperience, and he seems so far to be quite capable. I wish him luck against the Clinton war machine.

[Hulkein]

I definitely hope Obama beats Hillary in the primaries. I can say that for sure.

[Back]

Screen shot or it didn’t happen.

[Parkbandit]

The question is... who will be his running mate. He has an idea already. Doubt he would have entered fully if he did not have that ace in the hole. Biden would be great, but then again he might make a better Secretary of Defense.

Biden would make a good speech writer.. oh wait, he's a plagiarist.

[Parkbandit]

Dude, at this point? The GOP needs to nominate GOD himself.


The election is still 2 years away. Alot of things can happen between now and then.

Besides.. lastest poll of Hillary (D Frontrunner) vs Giuliani (Rep Frontrunner) has Rudy Giuliani winning... so seriously, don't do the same thing you did in 2000 and 2004.. which was "OMG! WE R WINNERS!!!!" and then "OMG! WE WUZ ROBBED!"

[Sean of the Thread]

Or plz declare yourself winners 2 years ahead of time AGAIN so none of your libby pot head voters get motivated enough to make it out the door on election day.

[xtc]

Or plz declare yourself winners 2 years ahead of time AGAIN so none of your libby pot head voters get motivated enough to make it out the door on election day.

Repubs always seem to be better at getting their voters out to the polls then the Dems do. Dems biggest problem is students talk a good game but don't show up at the polls.

Hilary - never
Obama - too green, too left (maybe in a few year if he moves to the centre and gets some more experience)
McCain - maybe
Giuliani - ? never been a huge fan but never looked at his policies very hard

[zhelas]

During his first press conference as a presidential candidate at Iowa State University, Obama, discussing his opposition to the Iraq war, said the war "should have never been authorized, and should have never been waged, and on which we've now spent $400 billion, and have seen over 3,000 lives of the bravest young Americans wasted.''

http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/254536,CST-NWS-sweet13.article

Hey Obama if you want a chance in this election stop taking lessons from Kerry.

[Sean of the Thread]

He's doomed.

[Parkbandit]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/254536,CST-NWS-sweet13.article

Hey Obama if you want a chance in this election stop taking lessons from Kerry.

Nice comment.

I'm sure he's backtracked by now.. but that's exactly what he meant.

Support the troops my ass.

[xtc]

What's wrong with his comment? No WMD found, Iraq in the midst of a bitter civil war that could potentially draw in neighbouring countries (Saudi Arabia has stated they will get involved in Iraq if the US leaves).

This war isn't like WW2, Obama spoke the truth. U.S. soldiers and Iraqi soldiers and civilians lives have been wasted.

[CrystalTears]

What's wrong with his comment?
Uh..
"and have seen over 3,000 lives of the bravest young Americans wasted.''

[xtc]

Uh..
"and have seen over 3,000 lives of the bravest young Americans wasted.''


...and they have been wasted.

[Hulkein]

What's wrong with his comment? No WMD found, Iraq in the midst of a bitter civil war that could potentially draw in neighbouring countries (Saudi Arabia has stated they will get involved in Iraq if the US leaves).

This war isn't like WW2, Obama spoke the truth. U.S. soldiers and Iraqi soldiers and civilians lives have been wasted.

Apparently he thought there was something wrong considering he retracted and apologized.

[xtc]

Apparently he thought there was something wrong considering he retracted and apologized.

He got attacked in the press and my guess is he was scared of looking like he didn't support the troops. Personally I don't see how his comments are an attack on the troops. To me it is an attack on the people who sent them to Iraq.

[Hulkein]

He said he knew what he said was wrong as it was coming out of his mouth. He also apologized pretty quickly.

It obviously was a dumb/wrong thing to say. He knows it.

[Parkbandit]

It obviously was a dumb/wrong thing to say. He knows it.


Might wanna clue xtc in on it. He seems confused as always.

[xtc]

Might wanna clue xtc in on it. He seems confused as always.

I was wondering when Rush Limbaugh was going to chime in. I am not the least bit confused, I just disgaree that there was anything wrong with his statement.

[Parkbandit]

I'm now Rush Limbaugh?

I'm flattered actually.. the guy has the #1 radio show in the country.

I would call you someone back.. but I don't know of a radio program that no one listens to because the host is a complete dipshit.

:)

[zhelas]

I was wondering when Rush Limbaugh was going to chime in. I am not the least bit confused, I just disgaree that there was anything wrong with his statement.


In an interview with the Des Moines Register, the leading newspaper in the critical first-in-the-nation caucus state, immediately backpedaled saying, "I was actually upset with myself when I said that, because I never use that term."

But, the first-term Senator's use of the term in a very public setting has forced Obama to elaborate on that apology, telling a house party crowd of potential supports in Nashua, N.H., Monday night, "Even as I said it, I realized I had misspoken."

Obama continued to explain, "It is not at all what I intended to say, and I would absolutely apologize if any (military families) felt that in some ways it had diminished the enormous courage and sacrifice that they'd shown."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17131803/
Regardless if you or Obama feel that the war was unjust or that the soldier's sacrifices are wasted. Truth or not. Don't belittle what the soldiers are doing in the middle east.

[zhelas]

I'm now Rush Limbaugh?

I'm flattered actually.. the guy has the #1 radio show in the country.

I would call you someone back.. but I don't know of a radio program that no one listens to because the host is a complete dipshit.

:)

Congrats on your nomination!


Landmark Legal Foundation Nominates Rush Limbaugh for 2007 Nobel Peace Prize
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20070201/pl_usnw/landmark_legal_foundation_nominates_rush_limbaugh_ for2007_nobel_peace_prize

Personally I hate Rush's radio show. I would rather hit my hand with a hammer than listen to him.

[xtc]

I'm now Rush Limbaugh?

I'm flattered actually.. the guy has the #1 radio show in the country.

I would call you someone back.. but I don't know of a radio program that no one listens to because the host is a complete dipshit.

:)

Only you would be flattered.

[xtc]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17131803/
Regardless if you or Obama feel that the war was unjust or that the soldier's sacrifices are wasted. Truth or not. Don't belittle what the soldiers are doing in the middle east.

He was criticising the decision to send them to Iraq, not the soldiers themselves. Their lives have been wasted, it isn't like World War Two when a sacrifice was made to save the world, to stop a man who had invaded Europe.

The soldiers in Iraq have died for nothing, no WMD, no imminent threat to America, so their lives were wasted. We should remember that the next time some nutjob wants to send young American men to war on the flimsiest of excuses.

Obama spoke the truth. He back peddled out of fear because he know how the fascist right would twist his words.

[CrystalTears]

Died for nothing?

Holy shit I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole.

[zhelas]

He was criticising the decision to send them to Iraq, not the soldiers themselves. Their lives have been wasted, it isn't like World War Two when a sacrifice was made to save the world, to stop a man who had invaded Europe.

The soldiers in Iraq have died for nothing, no WMD, no imminent threat to America, so their lives were wasted. We should remember that the next time some nutjob wants to send young American men to war on the flimsiest of excuses.

Obama spoke the truth. He back peddled out of fear because he know how the fascist right would twist his words.


Making False Case for Iraq War a 'Blot' on Record

When Powell left the Bush administration in January 2005, he was widely seen as having been at odds with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney over foreign policy choices.

It was Powell who told the United Nations and the world that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and posed an imminent threat. He told Walters that he feels "terrible" about the claims he made in that now-infamous address — assertions that later proved to be false.

When asked if he feels it has tarnished his reputation, he said, "Of course it will. It's a blot. I'm the one who presented it on behalf of the United States to the world, and [it] will always be a part of my record. It was painful. It's painful now."

He doesn't blame former CIA Director George Tenet for the misleading information he says he pored over for days before delivering his speech; he faults the intelligence system.

"George Tenet did not sit there for five days with me misleading me. He believed what he was giving to me was accurate. … The intelligence system did not work well," he said.

Nonetheless, Powell said, some lower-level personnel in the intelligence community failed him and the country. "There were some people in the intelligence community who knew at that time that some of these sources were not good, and shouldn't be relied upon, and they didn't speak up. That devastated me," he said.... http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Politics/story?id=1105979&page=1

It is obvious to me xtc that you had access to all the intelligence information that the administration did. Yet alone Obama. You wouldn't even have this conversation if the accusations the US had were accurate and everything came up roses.

To say their lives were wasted is just idiotic.

The Bush administration did lead the country into a war through faulty intelligence information and has mismanaged it. The US is now in a position where it may be worse off if they just pull out. This whole thing could be about oil. If anything through your anger at the government and not the soldiers.

Now xtc go in your little corner and burn your flag.

[Hulkein]

I would call you someone back.. but I don't know of a radio program that no one listens to because the host is a complete dipshit.

:)

I would suggest someone from Air America, but they went bankrupt.

[Skirmisher]

To say their lives were wasted is just idiotic.

The Bush administration did lead the country into a war through faulty intelligence information and has mismanaged it. The US is now in a position where it may be worse off if they just pull out. This whole thing could be about oil. If anything through your anger at the government and not the soldiers.

Now xtc go in your little corner and burn your flag.

I think there is a miscommunication here.

It appears to me that you are seeing an attack on the troops in saying that their lives were wasted in such an endeavor.

I do not think that that was at all intended and in fact the opposite was the intended message. That it was not doing justice to the troops to utilize them in such a poorly planned and executed manner.

Now as things are not yet finished there it may still be premature to make such a statement but that is my ultimate fear also, that after all this is done that all the lives lost and ruined will have been given for naught.

[zhelas]

I have a lot of respect for Colin Powell, I think he has been given the raw deal for the Iraq war, since he had to sell it to the world and to the US.

I don't think the decision to go to war was made in haste. I do believe that they looked over the intelligence ( or lack of intelligence) reports and made a choice. Wrong or right, the US is in a situation where a lot of the world hates us and exiting Iraq may give our enemies a window of opportunity to strike.

Obama, with all of his experience in foriegn affairs. And having all the information at his finger tips. Is just spewing garbage so he can win the election. What is really sad? Many folks eat up this stuff and believe it to be fact.

[Parkbandit]

Only you would be flattered.

While I'm not flattered from his physical appearance... I am flattered that you chose someone who is a giant in his industry. I doubt that him having the NUMBER ONE talk radio show for what.. 10 years (It's a guess.. I know it's a lot though) and you think I would be the only person to be flattered by such a comparison. It only goes to show you what a simpleton you really are.

It's almost as stupid as you trying to say that freedom of expression is alive and well in Iran.

Almost.

[Alfster]

Freedom of expression is alive and well in Iran

[Parkbandit]

Some of 'my' accomplishments:

Limbaugh was the 1992, 1995, 2000 and 2005 recipient of the Marconi Radio Award for Syndicated Radio Personality of the Year

In 2002, industry's Talkers magazine ranked him as the greatest radio talk show host of all time

NewsMax.com Magazine's "Top Talk Radio Host" list selected Limbaugh as the most influential host in the nation.

Currently, Limbaugh is the highest paid radio syndicator.

As of 2005, Arbitron ratings indicate the show's audience to average 13.5 million listeners weekly, making it the largest radio talk show audience in the United States. Such high ratings have been a consistent hallmark of his show.

In 1992, Limbaugh published his first book, The Way Things Ought To Be, followed by See, I Told You So in 1993.[26] Both went to number one on the New York Times Best Seller list

As a result of his television program, Limbaugh became known for wearing distinctive neckties. In response to viewer interest, Limbaugh launched a series of ties[29] designed primarily by his then-wife Marta.[30] Sales of the ties reached over five million dollars (U.S.) in their initial sales year, but were later discontinued.

In February 2006, the legal firm Landmark Legal Foundation announced that it made an unsolicited nomination of Limbaugh for the Nobel Peace Prize [31] for his "nearly two decades of tireless efforts to promote liberty, equality and opportunity for all humankind, regardless of race, creed, economic stratum or national origin. These are the only real cornerstones of just and lasting peace throughout the world,"

Limbaugh holds an annual fundraising telethon called the "EIB Cure-a-Thon"[53] for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society.[54] In 2006 the EIB Cure-a-Thon conducted its 16th annual telethon, raising $1.7 million;[55] totaling over $15 million since the first cure-a-thon

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh

[TheEschaton]

He's also hooked on oxycontin and a racist.

As to the whole wasted argument:

If you have a prime cut of beef, that you pay out the ass for, and you value it dearly, and someone who you're supposed to trust says you need to let him do what he wants with that meat......and he then cuts it up, and force feeds it to vegetarian hippos, the meat is thus WASTED, by this person you're supposed to trust. It's not a testament to the quality of the meat - it's a testament to the poor use of the meat by the guy who should know to throw it on the barbeque and make a grand meal of it.

-TheE-

[Apathy]

He's also hooked on oxycontin and a racist.

As to the whole wasted argument:

If you have a prime cut of beef, that you pay out the ass for, and you value it dearly, and someone who you're supposed to trust says you need to let him do what he wants with that meat......and he then cuts it up, and force feeds it to vegetarian hippos, the meat is thus WASTED, by this person you're supposed to trust. It's not a testament to the quality of the meat - it's a testament to the poor use of the meat by the guy who should know to throw it on the barbeque and make a grand meal of it.

-TheE-

WTF kind of a comparison is that?

Saying soldiers lives were wasted was wrong. Obama knows that, hence the apology. Why are people defending this??? He apologized for a reason.

[Sean of the Thread]

Rofl @ racist.

[Sean of the Thread]

WTF kind of a comparison is that?

Saying soldiers lives were wasted was wrong. Obama knows that, hence the apology. Why are people defending this??? He apologized for a reason.

Did he support the resolution for war with Iraq?

[TheEschaton]

Why can't "lives lost in a war we shouldn't be in, and have no reason to be in" be called wasted?

And wasn't Rush fired from NFL Gameday for being a racist?

-TheE-

[Back]

The Emperor wears no clothes.

[Hulkein]

And wasn't Rush fired from NFL Gameday for being a racist?

-TheE-

He said he thought McNabb got more postivie rep and more credit than he deserved because the media wanted a black QB to succeed. I actually thought he got too much credit myself, the defense was the backbone of the early 2000 Eagles teams.

Wouldn't really call what he said racist. Maybe insensitive.

[Sean of the Thread]

Exactly.