PDA

View Full Version : Iranians caught in Iraq



Jesuit
12-25-2006, 04:31 AM
BAGHDAD, Dec. 24 — The American military is holding at least four Iranians in Iraq, including men the Bush administration called senior military officials, who were seized in a pair of raids late last week aimed at people suspected of conducting attacks on Iraqi security forces, according to senior Iraqi and American officials in Baghdad and Washington.

The Bush administration made no public announcement of the politically delicate seizure of the Iranians, though in response to specific questions the White House confirmed Sunday that the Iranians were in custody.

Gordon D. Johndroe, the spokesman for the National Security Council, said two Iranian diplomats were among those initially detained in the raids. The two had papers showing that they were accredited to work in Iraq, and he said they were turned over to the Iraqi authorities and released. He confirmed that a group of other Iranians, including the military officials, remained in custody while an investigation continued, and he said, “We continue to work with the government of Iraq on the status of the detainees.”

It was unclear what kind of evidence American officials possessed that the Iranians were planning attacks, and the officials would not identify those being held. One official said that “a lot of material” was seized in the raid, but would not say if it included arms or documents that pointed to planning for attacks. Much of the material was still being examined, the official said.

Nonetheless, the two raids, in central Baghdad, have deeply upset Iraqi government officials, who have been making strenuous efforts to engage Iran on matters of security. At least two of the Iranians were in this country on an invitation extended by Iraq’s president, Jalal Talabani, during a visit to Tehran earlier this month. It was particularly awkward for the Iraqis that one of the raids took place in the Baghdad compound of Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, one of Iraq’s most powerful Shiite leaders, who traveled to Washington three weeks ago to meet President Bush.

Over the past four days, the Iraqis and Iranians have engaged in intense behind-the-scenes efforts to secure the release of the remaining detainees. One Iraqi government official said, “The Iranian ambassador has been running around from office to office.”

Iraqi leaders appealed to the American military, including to Gen. George W. Casey Jr., the senior American ground commander in Iraq, to release the Iranians, according to an Iraqi politician familiar with the efforts. The debate about what to do next has also engaged officials in the White House and the State Department. The national security adviser, Stephen J. Hadley, has been fully briefed, officials said, though they would not say what Mr. Bush has been told about the seizure or the identity of the detainees.

A senior Western official in Baghdad said the raids were conducted after American officials received information that the people detained had been involved in attacks on official security forces in Iraq. “We conduct operations against those who threaten Iraqi and coalition forces,” the official said. “This was based on information.”

A spokesman for Mr. Hakim, who heads a Shiite political party called Sciri, which began as an exile group in Iran that opposed Saddam Hussein, declined to comment. In Tehran, the Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman, Mohammad Ali Hosseini, had no comment about the case on Sunday other than to say it was under examination.

The action comes at a moment of extraordinary tension in the three-way relationship between the United States, Iran and Iraq. On Saturday, even as American officials were trying to determine the identity of some of the Iranians, the United Nations Security Council passed a resolution imposing mild sanctions against Iran for its refusal to suspend uranium enrichment. Meanwhile, the Bush administration has rejected pressure to open talks with Iran about its actions in Iraq.

Much about the raids and the identities of the Iranians remained unclear on Sunday. American officials offered few details. They said that an investigation was under way and that they wanted to give the Iraqi government time to figure out its position. A Bush administration official said the Iranian military officials held in custody were suspected of being members of the Quds force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. It has been involved in training members of Hezbollah and other groups that the Americans regard as terrorist organizations.

American and Iraqi officials have long accused Iran of interfering in this country’s internal affairs, but have rarely produced evidence. The administration presented last week’s arrests as a potential confirmation of the link. Mr. Johndroe said, “We suspect this event validates our claims about Iranian meddling, but we want to finish our investigation of the detained Iranians before characterizing their activities.”

He added: “We will be better able to explain what this means about the larger picture after we finish our investigation.”

In the raids, the Americans also detained a number of Iraqis. Western and Iraqi officials said that following normal protocol, the two Iranian diplomats were turned over to the Iraqi government after being questioned. The Iraqis, in turn, released them to the Iranian Embassy. An Iraqi official said his government had strained to keep the affair out of the public eye to avoid scuttling the talks with Iran that were now under way.

The raids and arrests were confirmed by at least seven officials and politicians in Baghdad and Washington. Still, the development was being viewed skeptically on Sunday by some Iraqis, who said that they suspected that the timing was intended to reinforce arguments by some in the administration that direct talks with Iran would be futile.

An administration official in Washington disputed that, saying, “When the military conducted the raids, they really didn’t know who they were going to find.”

The United States is now holding, apparently for the first time, Iranians who it suspects of planning attacks. One senior administration official said, “This is going to be a tense but clarifying moment.”

“It’s our position that the Iraqis have to seize this opportunity to sort out with the Iranians just what kind of behavior they are going to tolerate,” the official said, declining to speak on the record because the details of the raid and investigation were not yet public. “They are going to have to confront the evidence that the Iranians are deeply involved in some of the acts of violence.”

The events that led to the arrests of the Iranians began on Thursday, although details are sketchy.

In one raid, which took place around 7 p.m. that day, American forces stopped an official Iranian Embassy car carrying the two Iranian diplomats, one or two Iranian guards and an Iraqi driver. Iraqi officials said that the diplomats had been praying at the Buratha mosque and that when it was stopped, the car was in the Allawi neighborhood, a few minutes from the Iranian Embassy to the west of the Tigris River.

All in the car were detained by the Americans. The mosque’s imam, Sheik Jalal al-deen al-Sageir, a member of Parliament from Mr. Hakim’s party, said the Iranians had come to pray during the last day of mourning for his mother, who recently died. He said that after the Iranians left, the Iranian Embassy phoned to say that they had not arrived as expected. “We were afraid they were kidnapped,” Sheik Sageir said.

But he said he was later informed that the diplomats, whom he said that he did not know well, were in the custody of Americans. “I had nothing to do with that,” Sheik Sageir said. “I don’t know why the Americans took them.”

The predawn raid on Mr. Hakim’s compound, on the east side of the Tigris, was perhaps the most startling part of the American operation. The arrests were made inside the house of Hadi al-Ameri, the chairman of the Iraqi Parliament’s security committee and leader of the Badr Organization, the armed wing of Mr. Hakim’s political party.

Many Shiite political groups are now suspected of having ties to Iran, and Sciri is no exception. Senior party leaders lived in exile in Iran for years plotting the overthrow of Mr. Hussein. Some married Iranians and raised their children there.

Mr. Hakim has emerged as the central Iraqi Shiite who is backing a new bloc made up of Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds that would isolate more radical politicians. Americans back the new bloc, and Mr. Hakim traveled to Washington earlier this month to discuss its formation with Mr. Bush. It was not clear how the arrests, embarrassing to Mr. Hakim, would affect those political efforts.

Hiwa Osman, a news media adviser to Mr. Talabani, said, “The president is unhappy with the arrests.” .

The politician familiar with the efforts said the Iranians in the compound had been in Iraq for four days. He said Iraqi officials expected that two more of the Iranians would be released soon.

The disagreement will further irritate relations between Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki of Iraq and his American supporters. The Shiite-led government has begun to chafe under the control of the Americans, pressing for more control of its army and for greater independence from what it says is unilateral American decision making.

The Americans are concerned that the Shiite-led government would not respect the rights of the minority Sunni Arab population, and, in the worst case, would use the largely Shiite security forces as a weapon in this country’s deepening sectarian war.

Since the borders opened after the invasion, it has not been uncommon for Iranian pilgrims to visit Iraq. Many come to worship in religious places holy to Shiites.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/25/world/middleeast/25iraq.html?ei=5090&en=d7bbb4578e61b6da&ex=1324702800&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

TheEschaton
12-25-2006, 09:17 AM
In one raid, which took place around 7 p.m. that day, American forces stopped an official Iranian Embassy car carrying the two Iranian diplomats, one or two Iranian guards and an Iraqi driver. Iraqi officials said that the diplomats had been praying at the Buratha mosque and that when it was stopped, the car was in the Allawi neighborhood, a few minutes from the Iranian Embassy to the west of the Tigris River.

Anyone else a little disturbed that the raid was on a sovereign nation's supposedly immune diplomatic car? And the other raid was on the house of an Iraqi member of Parliment?

-TheE-

Jesuit
12-25-2006, 09:37 AM
Anyone else a little disturbed that the raid was on a sovereign nation's supposedly immune diplomatic car? And the other raid was on the house of an Iraqi member of Parliment?

-TheE-

Not if the raid distrupts plans for attacks on American soldiers, the same soldiers you supposedly care so much for.

Parkbandit
12-25-2006, 09:46 AM
'Diplomatic Immunity'

"... has just been revoked"

Best line ever.. name the movie.

Latrinsorm
12-25-2006, 11:06 AM
Lethal Weapon 2, the best movie ever.

Gan
12-25-2006, 01:12 PM
Anyone else a little disturbed that the raid was on a sovereign nation's supposedly immune diplomatic car? And the other raid was on the house of an Iraqi member of Parliment?

-TheE-

Not in the least.

ElanthianSiren
12-25-2006, 06:01 PM
Anyone else a little disturbed that the raid was on a sovereign nation's supposedly immune diplomatic car? And the other raid was on the house of an Iraqi member of Parliment?

-TheE-

-Depends on what intelligence was used to authorize the raid, how thoroughly it was researched to ensure accuracy, and procedures taken. I don't agree with raiding on every rumor, but if we are in Iraq to oversee the Iraqi government's safety, we need to do that. What I find more disturbing is that the Iraqi government itself grows more and more unsettled about our role there, referenced in the article and by Maliki's behavior.

-M

Parkbandit
12-25-2006, 08:50 PM
Lethal Weapon 2, the best movie ever.

Nice.

Stealth
12-25-2006, 11:45 PM
As was said before. If it saves US Servicemembers' lives well then it is good for me.

Our country, and by that, I mean our people and our government combined need to wake up and realize what is happening. The Muslim extremists don't fight by "the rules", they fight to win. They don't care what is "PC" and they don't give a shit about collateral damage.

My only question is what is it going to take to make the rest of the country and the world to wake up? A nuke? A bioweapon? A suicide bomber in YOUR hometown grocery store? If you think these are just bad dreams, I admire you for your rose colored glasses.

Read your history, in the past the forces who fought with the most ruthless manner generally won, especially in guerilla wars or insurgencies. I personally am out to ensure that I and my family live. If I have to hurt a few feelings of other people by doing what it takes to ensure that, so be it.

You can argue all you want about what caused this. But the bottom line up front is that radical Muslims want everyone else to be their brand of Muslim, and if you aren't, they are prepared to kill you. If you aren't their target now, you will be sooner or later once they take down whoever is in front of you.

As I have said before in another post, the rest of the Muslims need to police their shit (Armyspeak for clean up their fucking mess and regulate their bitches) or we are going to have to do it. Simple as that. As long as their type of hatred is tolerated by the governments of the Muslim countries, they will exist.


Stealth

Parkbandit
12-26-2006, 12:26 AM
Stealth kicked ass in GS (although I know he was always in awe of how cool my rogue was) but really kicks ass in real life.

Nice post man.

Stanley Burrell
12-26-2006, 11:46 AM
That has pre-emptive pascal lamb by Iran written all over it.

And I have an immediate problem with "Iranian diplomat" being used as anything but an oxymoron if the above pretenses hold any truth (due to the volatility of such actions. See below.)

That being said, deliberate diplomat taboo is an extremely powerful PR and internal radicalizing/patronage tool that Iran could continuously dish out due to location and timing such events with purported sanction cooperation.

xtc
01-08-2007, 05:20 PM
As was said before. If it saves US Servicemembers' lives well then it is good for me.

Well I suppose that means other nations will no longer honour diplomatic immunity for Americans. That should be interesting.


Our country, and by that, I mean our people and our government combined need to wake up and realize what is happening. The Muslim extremists don't fight by "the rules", they fight to win. They don't care what is "PC" and they don't give a shit about collateral damage.

We have a historic penchant for not giving a shit about democracy or collateral damage when it was in our interest. We have been ruthless & vicious in our self interest. Surprise, surprise when it comes to bite us on the ass.


My only question is what is it going to take to make the rest of the country and the world to wake up? A nuke? A bioweapon? A suicide bomber in YOUR hometown grocery store? If you think these are just bad dreams, I admire you for your rose colored glasses.

Wake up? There are more nuclear bombs now in the world than before 9-11. Invading two Muslim nations has only convinced the world that the way to keep America from invading is to have a nuclear bomb. Are we going to fight the whole world or start WW3?

If we don't want a suicide bomber in 7-11 in Ohio we need to think about what we are doing around the world that has caused us to become so hated...and I am not talking about just the past 7 years, I mean the last 60 years.


Read your history, in the past the forces who fought with the most ruthless manner generally won, especially in guerilla wars or insurgencies. I personally am out to ensure that I and my family live. If I have to hurt a few feelings of other people by doing what it takes to ensure that, so be it.

You need to read your history, violence only begets more violence. It should be used as an absolute last resort. We live in a nuclear world, such ruthlessness may result in no world. There are many things we can do to ensure our safety that don't include recommendations from someone who has played Socom too much.


You can argue all you want about what caused this. But the bottom line up front is that radical Muslims want everyone else to be their brand of Muslim, and if you aren't, they are prepared to kill you. If you aren't their target now, you will be sooner or later once they take down whoever is in front of you.

You wouldn't know a "brand" of Islam if it bit you on the ass. So you can hardly predict what they are thinking. Here comes out the tired theory of the scary Muslim. This may have worked in 2002 but it is 2007 now. The vast majority of the Muslims in the world want to live a peaceful life free from interference.


As I have said before in another post, the rest of the Muslims need to police their shit (Armyspeak for clean up their fucking mess and regulate their bitches) or we are going to have to do it. Simple as that. As long as their type of hatred is tolerated by the governments of the Muslim countries, they will exist.
Stealth

Why should we do anything? It is narrow minded, myopic fools like yourself who cause Bin Laden's recruiting campaigns to be as effortless as a career fair held by Google.

Alfster
01-08-2007, 07:42 PM
xtc needs to get laid

Parkbandit
01-08-2007, 08:39 PM
4 out of 5 doctors have declared that having sex does not make you less retarded.

sst
01-08-2007, 11:48 PM
Is this really new news in the US? I would have thought it to be common knowledge that Iran is involved.

sst
01-08-2007, 11:58 PM
Anyone else a little disturbed that the raid was on a sovereign nation's supposedly immune diplomatic car? And the other raid was on the house of an Iraqi member of Parliment?

-TheE-

Is it really that hard to believe that members of the iraqi government are corrupt?

sst
01-08-2007, 11:59 PM
Well I suppose that means other nations will no longer honour diplomatic immunity for Americans. That should be interesting.



We have a historic penchant for not giving a shit about democracy or collateral damage when it was in our interest. We have been ruthless & vicious in our self interest. Surprise, surprise when it comes to bite us on the ass.



Wake up? There are more nuclear bombs now in the world than before 9-11. Invading two Muslim nations has only convinced the world that the way to keep America from invading is to have a nuclear bomb. Are we going to fight the whole world or start WW3?

If we don't want a suicide bomber in 7-11 in Ohio we need to think about what we are doing around the world that has caused us to become so hated...and I am not talking about just the past 7 years, I mean the last 60 years.



You need to read your history, violence only begets more violence. It should be used as an absolute last resort. We live in a nuclear world, such ruthlessness may result in no world. There are many things we can do to ensure our safety that don't include recommendations from someone who has played Socom too much.



You wouldn't know a "brand" of Islam if it bit you on the ass. So you can hardly predict what they are thinking. Here comes out the tired theory of the scary Muslim. This may have worked in 2002 but it is 2007 now. The vast majority of the Muslims in the world want to live a peaceful life free from interference.



Why should we do anything? It is narrow minded, myopic fools like yourself who cause Bin Laden's recruiting campaigns to be as effortless as a career fair held by Google.

As always you come out as a retard who dosent have a clue about whats going on outside of canada