View Full Version : About Fucking Time
Tisket
12-10-2006, 05:15 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061210/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/chile_pinochet_5
SANTIAGO, Chile - Gen. Augusto Pinochet, who overthrew Chile's democratically elected Marxist president in a bloody coup and ruled this Andean nation for 17 years, died Sunday, dashing hopes among many that he would see justice for his regime's abuses. He was 91.
Airfare might be worth it just to be able to go spit on his grave.
Tisket
12-10-2006, 05:17 PM
Probably shoulda posted in the political folder. Oh well, screw it.
HarmNone
12-10-2006, 05:22 PM
There ya go. :)
Tisket
12-10-2006, 05:24 PM
You're a saint.
In a paganly sort of way I mean...
Nieninque
12-10-2006, 05:26 PM
Didnt he admit to the human rights abuses not long ago?
Didn't our country support him some way?
Tisket
12-10-2006, 05:28 PM
Didnt he admit to the human rights abuses not long ago?
Not specifically. He did take responsibility for other political actions not long before he died though.
Nieninque
12-10-2006, 05:29 PM
Didn't our country support him some way?
Ours did.
Margaret Fucking Thatcher provided him with a holiday home.
Pretty sure she probably did more too.
Nieninque
12-10-2006, 05:30 PM
Not specifically. He did take responsibility for other political actions not long before he died though.
I heard it in passing on the news, couldnt recall what it was. Just figured that he was at least being partly honest about some of the shit he did...which was a novelty
Keller
12-10-2006, 05:34 PM
Ours did.
Margaret Fucking Thatcher provided him with a holiday home.
Pretty sure she probably did more too.
Margaret Thatcher sexy-time. Hot.
Tisket
12-10-2006, 05:39 PM
Margaret Thatcher sexy-time. Hot.
lol @ helmet hair...
Yeah we kept her for so long due to that fact.
And of course that she harboured self-absolving murderers.
:heart:
TheEschaton
12-10-2006, 07:40 PM
We also supported him too. The CIA backed his coup, and supposedly had a hand in Allende's death, which Pinochet's regime labelled as a "suicide".
-TheE-
We also supported him too. The CIA backed his coup, and supposedly had a hand in Allende's death, which Pinochet's regime labelled as a "suicide".
-TheE-
Considering any government which labeled itself as anti-communist received aid in some form or fashion from the US during the cold war, it doesnt suprise me at all.
Nieninque
12-10-2006, 08:17 PM
Margaret Thatcher sexy-time. Hot.
I worry about you
TheEschaton
12-11-2006, 12:05 AM
Just read this:
"The mustachioed Pinochet left no doubt about who was in charge after the Sept. 11, 1973 coup, when warplanes bombed the presidential palace and Allende committed suicide with a submachine gun Fidel Castro had given him."
Ummm, how do you kill yourself with a submachine gun? Like a shotgun deal? Put it under the chin, pull the trigger with your toe?
-TheE-
Daniel
12-11-2006, 12:31 AM
Sub machine guns are pretty small.
Pinochet, we backed a winner there.
Jesuit
12-11-2006, 12:49 PM
Look on the bright side, he did pave the way for the most stable economy in South American history.
Pinochet reluctantly took the lead of the revolution after the democratically elected congress of Chile voted that the President must be removed, by force if necessary. After taking control from the military Junta put in place he pushed forth a new constitution that was voted in by the people (in what may have been an irregular election). He is tied to 3000 deaths during his near 20 years in power, most of those presumed to have been involved in the smuggling of 80 tons of weapons and C4 led by Cuban intelligence agents and backed by East Germany and the USSR which were intended to reach communist opponents of Pinochet. In 1988 he allowed himself to by voted out of office, the election is considered fair and he declared that the "si" and "no" sides be given equal amount of time on the air and no other advertising be allowed. He lost 55% of the vote. His time in the office saw the implementation and free-market policies, while much of South America was under communist or socialist influences, that account for while Chile is one of the richest and most successful Latin American countries today.
His hands weren't clean, but as far as dictators go, you could have done a lot worse.
Pinochet reluctantly took the lead of the revolution after the democratically elected congress of Chile voted that the President must be removed, by force if necessary.
The Chamber of Deputies which is Chile's lower house of Congress voted that democratically elected Allende had violated the Constitution. I don't believe they voted that he be removed or that the higher house of Congress ratified the lower house's vote.
Interestingly enough Pinochet gave himself enormous powers including the right to dissolve Congress.
Pincohet took control of Chile in a bloody military coup.
After taking control from the military Junta put in place he pushed forth a new constitution that was voted in by the people (in what may have been an irregular election).
He put himself in charge and ended democracy. Chile had a history of democracy prior to Pinochet. In 1980 he did away with elections in favour of a referendum on the President.
He is tied to 3000 deaths during his near 20 years in power, most of those presumed to have been involved in the smuggling of 80 tons of weapons and C4 led by Cuban intelligence agents and backed by East Germany and the USSR which were intended to reach communist opponents of Pinochet.
3000 is low and most of who he killed where members of opposition parties and anyone who opposed him. I don't know where you got the information they were Cuban or Russian agents that were killed. That is a separate thing.
In 1988 he allowed himself to by voted out of office, the election is considered fair and he declared that the "si" and "no" sides be given equal amount of time on the air and no other advertising be allowed. He lost 55% of the vote.
After killing anyone who opposed him in 1980 he did away with free elections and opposition parties. He instituted a referendum on his presidency. In 1988 he loss the referendum. Then open elections were held in which he lost. He did remain Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces until 1998 and a Senator for life. The latter move was an attempt to gain immunity from prosecution for his human rights crimes.
His hands weren't clean, but as far as dictators go, you could have done a lot worse.
He was a murderer, a thief and a thug.
Skeeter
12-11-2006, 01:42 PM
Life was pretty good in Chile as long as you weren't a political opposer.
He was a murder[er], a thief and a thug.
All true, but on the scale of revolutionaries, he was better than the celebrated ones (Che), better than the ones who held power longer (Mao), and better than the one's who had more influence (Lenin). Chile was ripe for revolution at the time, all of South America was. Given that someone was going to take over I can't think of a better dictator in the last half-century (granted I'm not an expert on dictators), but when you look at what happened with most south-american dictators he was probably the best option.
All true, but on the scale of revolutionaries, he was better than the celebrated ones (Che), better than the ones who held power longer (Mao), and better than the one's who had more influence (Lenin). Chile was ripe for revolution at the time, all of South America was. Given that someone was going to take over I can't think of a better dictator in the last half-century (granted I'm not an expert on dictators), but when you look at what happened with most south-american dictators he was probably the best option.
Che, Mao, and Lenin were shit as well. I don't know how you can have a "better" dictator.
Russia, China, and Cuba were ripe for revolution as well but I don't celebrate them nor Pinochet. All of them were butchers.
Latrinsorm
12-11-2006, 02:33 PM
I think it's a bit of a stretch to classify "pretty good for a slimeball" as celebrating.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to classify "pretty good for a slimeball" as celebrating.
Yeah that.
Che, Mao, and Lenin were shit as well. I don't know how you can have a "better" dictator.
You don't?
How about this:
Man steals $1 from tip jar.
Man robs 7-11 cash register, gets away with 84 bucks.
Man embezzles $10,000 from charity he works for.
Which one is better?
TheEschaton
12-11-2006, 05:35 PM
Sub machine guns are pretty small.
Really, huh? You learn something new every day. I suppose he technically COULD of done it though.
It still reeks of conspiracy to me. The U.S. admits to working to undermine him, but says it didn't support the coup?
-TheE-
TheEschaton
12-11-2006, 05:36 PM
Look on the bright side, he did pave the way for the most stable economy in South American history.
Supposing you actually SUPPORT Jesuit ideals, which one could reasonably assume, you would thus agree the means don't justify the ends.
-TheE-
TheEschaton
12-11-2006, 05:40 PM
Oh, and Pinochet wasn't a "revolutionary". Allende was a revolutionary, voted in by the voice of the people.
The U.S. pressured the Chilean lower house to vote no confidence, the U.S. backed the coup, and Pinochet was their hand picked puppet dictator....
Hmmm....sounds similar to some other prior situations...
Like...Iraq?
-TheE-
Daniel
12-11-2006, 05:41 PM
Really, huh? You learn something new every day. I suppose he technically COULD of done it though.
It still reeks of conspiracy to me. The U.S. admits to working to undermine him, but says it didn't support the coup?
-TheE-
I mean yea, you probably wouldn't get more then the first bullet to hit something substantive, but you don't need to empty a full clip into yourself.
Jesuit
12-11-2006, 09:47 PM
Supposing you actually SUPPORT Jesuit ideals, which one could reasonably assume, you would thus agree the means don't justify the ends.
-TheE-
One would think someone who spews philosophy wouldn't assume anything.
TheEschaton
12-12-2006, 11:19 AM
One would think a person with the handle "Jesuit" would actually believe in Jesuit ideals. Not unreasonable, by any measure.
-TheE-
Jesuit
12-12-2006, 03:47 PM
One would think a person with the handle "Jesuit" would actually believe in Jesuit ideals. Not unreasonable, by any measure.
-TheE-
Is that the best comeback you could come up with?
ElanthianSiren
12-12-2006, 06:25 PM
Seems like a good handle for a person also who might have a touch of a messianic complex. I'm not saying you do, just wondering if those aren't your ideals what the alternatives are.
-M
edit:
2. Fig.: A crafty person; an intriguer.
Jesuits' bark, Peruvian bark, or the bark of certain
species of Cinchona; -- so called because its medicinal
properties were first made known in Europe by Jesuit
missionaries to South America.
Jesuits' drops. See Friar's balsam, under Friar.
Jesuits' nut, the European water chestnut.
Jesuits' powder, powdered cinchona bark.
Jesuits' tea, a Chilian leguminous shrub, used as a tea and
medicinally.
You don't?
How about this:
Man steals $1 from tip jar.
Man robs 7-11 cash register, gets away with 84 bucks.
Man embezzles $10,000 from charity he works for.
Which one is better?
None of the above are the actions of a dictator, just a thief. Pinochet is no different from any other dictator.
Latrinsorm
12-13-2006, 03:43 PM
He pretty clearly is, unless you want to make the claim that the Holocaust also happened in Chile.
He pretty clearly is, unless you want to make the claim that the Holocaust also happened in Chile.
Hitler is not the only dictator in history.
Latrinsorm
12-18-2006, 04:39 PM
Hitler was a dictator, and if you are going to make the claim that Pinochet was no different from any other dictator, you certainly would have to make the claim that Pinochet, like Santa Claus, was no different than Hitler.
Hitler was a dictator, and if you are going to make the claim that Pinochet was no different from any other dictator, you certainly would have to make the claim that Pinochet, like Santa Claus, was no different than Hitler.
Hitler killed more people but Pinochet used many of the same techniques.
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