Water Thread.

[Skirmisher]

True enough, the prior thread was being pulled off topic so lets continue here if you wish to prove me wrong Gan.

Follow your own advice and provide the proof to refute my assertion that the worsening water shortage is another myth like global warming.

Please do show the sources you can find that say anything like that.

And i'm sure someone will say something about how it is so much worse overseas tha here so far and projected. All I can respond to that is I'm so glad that things that happen overseas(Lebanon)don't (WWII) have (Afghanistan)any (WWI) effect (Vientam) here.

Below are only a few sources to peruse since you seemed to become so upset earlier when asked to make use of a search engine on your own.


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0323-01.htm

http://ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/awr/dec99/Feature2.htm

http://www.geology.wisc.edu/courses/g115/freshwater/2.html

https://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2000/dci_speech_020200smithson.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ft/20061003/bs_ft/fto100320061549249521

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/30/world/asia/30water2.html

[StrayRogue]

Um, we've had an increasing water shortage in England for the last few years.

[Gan]

I've said all I needed to say in the other thread.

You can have this sandbox all to yourself.

[Skirmisher]

Yeah I thought so.

[Wezas]

We can sell your country some. Even throw in the flouride for free.

[Warriorbird]

Why do I get this urge to quote Dr. Strangelove?


Gen. Jack D. Ripper:
Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?


Gen. Jack D. Ripper:
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.


General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Lord, Jack.
General Jack D. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: I... no, no. I don't, Jack.
General Jack D. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. Nineteen forty-six, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Uh, Jack, Jack, listen, tell me, tell me, Jack. When did you first... become... well, develop this theory?
General Jack D. Ripper: Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm.
General Jack D. Ripper: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm.
General Jack D. Ripper: I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women uh... women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid women, Mandrake.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No.
General Jack D. Ripper: But I... I do deny them my essence.

[Sean of the Thread]

In other news.. Water is wet.

[HarmNone]

Um, we've had an increasing water shortage in England for the last few years.

I read something about that this morning during my research, Stray. I want to read more. Are there plans being formulated to curb the problem before it becomes insurmountable?

[Jazuela]

Wow, you guys are welcome to drive down my street any rainy day and suck up the floods for your own person use. We've had to close the road 4 times last year because of it. Thankfully, I drive one of those evil gas-guzzling nasty "everyone hates us" SUVs, and my house is on an incline within my property, so the flood doesn't get inside and I can just drive right though the 2-foot-deep river into the driveway. The houses across the street don't have it so lucky, heh. They're on the decline, and can't have basements because of it.

[StrayRogue]

I read something about that this morning during my research, Stray. I want to read more. Are there plans being formulated to curb the problem before it becomes insurmountable?

Not anything amazingly ambitious. Basically there is an initiative across the country that is encouraging us to use less water. Adverts, reports, etc etc. In the south there is or was a hosepipe ban over the summer.

I'm sure Vic's butler would have liked being able to bring her and her quests more cocktails during one of her garden parties without being splashed by the sprinklers, though.

[Gan]

Yeah I thought so.

You thought what?

What part of my earlier comments have you misunderstood?

Go back and re-read them if you're that confused. Or get someone to read them to you. :)

[Warriorbird]

The part where you said anything of import to her besides using more semantics than an English major and cursing?

Oh... wait. That wasn't there.

[Gan]

Not really.

[Skirmisher]

You thought what?

What part of my earlier comments have you misunderstood?

Go back and re-read them if you're that confused. Or get someone to read them to you. :)

I'm sure you will post some sources to prove me wrong any second now.

Assuming you can.

[Gan]

I was unaware it was my job to spoonfeed you. Sound familiar?

You're so busy running after me you've forgotten what was said and the reason why you're chasing.

Thanks for all your hard work though.

[Skirmisher]

Yeah, I thought so.

Made a fool of yourself and not able to do a thing about it.

You were pwned and everyone knows it but you apparently.

[Gan]

Yeah, I thought so.

Made a fool of yourself and not able to do a thing about it.

You were pwned and everyone knows it but you apparently.

Not really. Prove how I was pwnnt as you so eloquently put it.

Use actual quotes please.

[Skirmisher]

Not really. Prove how I was pwnnt as you so eloquently put it.

Use actual quotes please.

HAHAHAHA...

Wait a second...you want to be able to look down upon my use of the word pwned but you saying "Fuck you" is acceptable?

Your hypocrisy is on overdrive today.

[Alfster]

You were pwned and everyone knows it but you apparently.

I confess I didn't read the other thread....

I see no pwn'age, plus the pwn'ing doesn't count if you call out your own pwnage

[Warriorbird]

Yeah. The local "conservative" posters tend to project a lot.

[HarmNone]

Would it help if I moved all the water shortage-related posts into this thread?

[TheEschaton]

This thread makes me thirsty.

-TheE-

[Gan]

Here, let me help you.



Wars or at least armed conflict WILL take place over water rights within 20 years if there is not some magical discovery of ways to make desalination plants less costly and less waste producing.

My reply:


Where will these wars/armed conflicts take place? And will they be between nation states or will they be between neighboring communities?

And what information do you base this hypothesis on, especially the 'within 20 years' part?
Simple questions I asked you to back up your assertion/hypothesis. Was I pwnned here as you say? No. So lets move on to the next lively interchange since you gave no details as to WHAT THE FUCK YOU WERE DISCUSSING. Oh thats right, we're supposed to use the internet to discern your thoughts. WTF???

Your next ordered post in this exchange:


Gan, as ussual you choose to ignore the aspect you cannot, with any credibility dispute, and focus on the minutiae to try to find some triffle to distract from the main thrust.

Read about water rights being traded/sold in the southwest US if you want some examples close to home.

Read about the current issues in India if you want immediate examples of greater urgency.

Read some of the UN reports if you want more global examples.

Most of all....read.

So we can expect armed conflict and even wars, between whomever, in Southwest US and India? Ok, now you're getting more specific, in a somewhat stupid way.

My response:


It was a simple question asshole. If you feel the need to be a snob about providing an answer, do me a favor and send it privately. You're truly a fuckstain, you know?

On a side note, thanks for the paper posted Daniel. Its a very interesting read, especially the arguments for and against privatization of water resourcing.

Funny how more information was given from two posters even before you decided to get more specific. Unless thats a new trend you're pushing here on the PC. LISTEN TO ME BUT YOU'LL HAVE TO LOOK IT UP TO VERIFY!!!! GOOGLE AWAY!!!

Your next response:

I was unaware it was my job to spoonfeed you.

And your cries of the wounded innocent sound a little hypocritical coming from the same person who has routinely been insulting people in posts recently, so please save it.

Not PWNND yet... we'll keep going.

My next post:


Go look at my past posts you idiot. The only person I've insulted lately has been you. Today.

Fuck you.

Edited to add:

Well, I've traded barbs with Backlash, but we do that so regularly that its a common practice now.

Your next response... this is getting entertaining now.



It's not a claim. It's the way it is.

Whether he or you believe it is irrelevant.

No pwnn yet??? Lets keep going.



PB, please don't pull a GAN and stoop to trying to argue the minutiae about exactly when the fighting over water rights will begin.

The far more important portion of my post was that the situation is a fact and its only accellerating.

The exact dates or terminology can be argued over ad infinitum but that won't give you more watrer to drink.

Actually here ^^^ we can see you're backtracking from your 20 year claim. When in fact, considering the Six Day War already lists water as a reason for the conflict.

No PWNNN yet, well, at least by you that is. Lets keep looking.

My reply.


Actually, he's just continuing the line of thought I had with regards to calling bullshit to your superfluous claims of running out of water in 20 years with no credible source to back it up.

I was just being polite about it in my original post.

But since you're obviously too retarded to get the fact that OTHERS NEED TO SEE PROOF OF YOUR OUTLANDISH CLAIMS... well, we'll just have to deal with it.

Thanks for comfirming my opinion of you being a complete idiot.

Edited to add: and quit trying to hide from backing up your stupid remarks with diversions of claiming we're straying too far from the topic at hand. Its very FOLEY of you.

Moving on (you'll like this section)


Well thank goodness you threw in the caveat about exactly WHEN it was you were being polite.

And please do not paraphrase me in such an incorrect manner.

I never said we would be out of water in 20 years.

I said there would be conflicts.
WAIT A MINUTEZZZ. NOW WHO'S GETTTING MINUTAE IN DETAIL??? So you never said we would be out of water in 20 years... but you said there would be conflict. So let me get this straight, we (someone in either Southwestern US or India) will fight about water within 20 years, even though they have not run out of it. DO YOU REALIZE HOW STUPID THAT SOUNDS??? We'll, I suppose by your understanding that really the war would not be about scarce water or running out but about greed of water resources. Even though wars have already been waged with water being one of the reasons for the fighting.

So lets continue, since Ive failed to see where you've PWNNT me, if thats what your goal seems to be.

My next post:


Actually, it appears that water seems to be one of the many issues with the Israeli-Palestenian conflict and was one of the major causes for the 1967 Six Day War.

And to think you went out on a limb and said it might be a cause for conflict within the next 20 years. :lol: Without even giving details for locations other than AFTER your initial post where you mentioned the Southwest US and India.

In a nutshell we deviated off topic in your own moderated thread because you're being an asswipe when someone you dont like happens to question your own posts. Thanks to Daniel we at least had some direction with which to follow up on your claims of 20 years of possible violence when its already happened. Thats like claiming there will be sex scandals in the Government in the next 20 years. Let me give you a clue that we learned in my International Relations classes, wars are fought between nation states for reasons such as boarders, religion, and resources among many other things. THANKS FOR POINTING OUT AN AMBIGUOUS CONCEPT IN AN ELECTION THREAD.

I'm just waiting for more abrupt rude Instant Messages and or pulled posts.

And at this point you took the hint and created your own water thread to play in.

Please point out to me where you PWNND me again?

To steal a phrase from you. "I thought so".

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Gan
Where will these wars/armed conflicts take place? And will they be between nation states or will they be between neighboring communities?

And what information do you base this hypothesis on, especially the 'within 20 years' part?

^^

So, you're saying that Water is not an issue?

[Gan]

So, you're saying that Water is not an issue?

Never said that, never had a chance.

Do I think that water is an issue that a war could be fought over by nation states in the middle east? Actually, since the Six Day War convinces me so, yes. I think wars could erupt between nation states in the middle east over water as a natural limited resource. I dont think war or armed conflict will erupt in the southwest US over water rights though.

I'm not going to be stupid enough to say within the next 20 years though.

[Daniel]

The Six day war wasn't fought over water. Just so you know.

Also, I wouldn't relegate the issue of water to the Middle East. I'd just say thats one area where it is increasingly becoming a problem. You're also seeing the same things in any agri-heavy economy. I.e. Most of the developing world, and even the most developed are going to have to find a solution to their problems. However, it is doubtful that the US or any other highly industrialized nation would resort to war.

[Gan]

The Six day war wasn't fought over water. Just so you know.

Also, I wouldn't relegate the issue of water to the Middle East. I'd just say thats one area where it is increasingly becoming a problem. You're also seeing the same things in any agri-heavy economy. I.e. Most of the developing world, and even the most developed are going to have to find a solution to their problems. However, it is doubtful that the US or any other highly industrialized nation would resort to war.


Water was one of the reasons, so I beg to differ with you on that account.

Unlike Skirmy, I'll give you my resource as to why I think it was.



Both Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) and Jordan rely on the Jordan River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_River), but Israel controls it, as well as 9/10 of the water resources in the region. Water is also an important issue in the conflict with the Palestinians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-Palestinian_conflict) - indeed, according to former Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon) quoted by Abel Darwish in the BBC, it was one of the causes of the 1967 Six-Day War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War). In practice the access to water has been a casus belli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casus_belli) for Israel. The Israeli army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsahal) prohibits Palestinians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine) from pumping water, and settlers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlements) use much more advanced pumping equipment. Palestinians complain of a lack of access to water in the region.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water#_note-15)

[HarmNone]

I don't think Skirmisher ever mentioned the probability of war or "armed conflict" in this country, either, Ganalon.

[Daniel]

Water was one of the reasons, so I beg to differ with you on that account.

Unlike Skirmy, I'll give you my resource as to why I think it was.

[/URL]

Wiki. You so Pwnted me.


I'm quite aware of the circumstances of the Israeli-Arab war of 1968, as well as the political situation involving Jordan and the Golan Heights.

The six day war started with the Egyptians began to mass troops in the Sinai Border, and the Israeli's pre-emptively attacked the Egyptians in response. In the chaos that ensued, the Israeli's seized the Golan Heights because of the massive amounts of water it contained.

The Golan Heights was a footnote to the 1968 war and was not the cause as that wiki article implies (in that section), nor the major issue revolving around the 1968 war.

I just you read the wiki article about the 1968 war and not the one on water if you insist on quoting wikipedia.


Therefore, "Wars have not been fought over water".

That said,

Way to ignore everything else completely. Good show.

[Skirmisher]

I'm stunned that even you can be so stubborn Gan.

You refused to take the 20 seconds needed to punch in the words global water shortage into google and educate yourself on an important issue facing the world that far too many know nothing about.

You demanded I provide the links that you could have easily found yourself so at first i refused but finally in the face of your obstinance did look up for you.

Then when I ask you for a similar source to refute my assertion you want me to do your work for you yet AGAIN.

I'm suppossed to make both my and your argument now?

Are you that incapable?

I have made the assertion that a shortage of potable water is a very large and rapidly growing problem, one that will lead to armed conflict within twenty years.

I provided examples of water shortages in our own country simply to show that we ourselves are not immune to this problem.

I never implied that there would be some fight in the US and your attempts to make it seem so have been dissapointing.

I provided everything you could possibly ask within any reasonable measure and you insist on flailing about on tangents simply because it is me you are arguing against.

You stoop to calling me names because you are frustrated at being shown to be wrong then have the gall to chastise me for using a simple colloquialism.

Come on now, provide the sources that show me wrong if you can.

[Alfster]

Global warming is a good strategy to reduce water shortages.

[Skirmisher]

Alfter, please....just stop.

[Gan]

Wiki. You so Pwnted me.


I'm quite aware of the circumstances of the Israeli-Arab war of 1968, as well as the political situation involving Jordan and the Golan Heights.

The six day war started with the Egyptians began to mass troops in the Sinai Border, and the Israeli's pre-emptively attacked the Egyptians in response. In the chaos that ensued, the Israeli's seized the Golan Heights because of the massive amounts of water it contained.

The Golan Heights was a footnote to the 1968 war and was not the cause as that wiki article implies (in that section), nor the major issue revolving around the 1968 war.

I just you read the wiki article about the 1968 war and not the one on water if you insist on quoting wikipedia.


Therefore, "Wars have not been fought over water".

That said,

Way to ignore everything else completely. Good show.

WTF? I never tried to pwn you. I simply mentioned that I disagreed with your fucking opinion you idiot. Is that why you post here, so you can try to WTFPWN people? Grow up a little please?

The wiki article quotes ariel sharon saying that water was one of the reasons why the six day war was fought. Peroid the end. Thats why I disagreed with your assertion that the six day war was not fought over water.

Good god quit putting words in my mouth.

[Alfster]

Alfter, please....just stop.

It will reduce water shortages.

Gimme a break, i'm looking for solutions!

[Skirmisher]

Okay, then continue.

[Daniel]

WTF? I never tried to pwn you. I simply mentioned that I disagreed with your fucking opinion you idiot. Is that why you post here, so you can try to WTFPWN people? Grow up a little please?

The wiki article quotes ariel sharon saying that water was one of the reasons why the six day war was fought. Peroid the end. Thats why I disagreed with your assertion that the six day war was not fought over water.

Good god quit putting words in my mouth.

Calling someone immature and an idiot at the same time?

You're reaching once again.

First, you post a reference to an uncited quote as the basis for your statement

"Actually, since the Six Day War convinces me so, yes. I think wars could erupt between nation states in the middle east over water as a natural limited resource."

Then steer the entire discussion to the defense of your (False) statement.

So, tell me. What words am I putting into your mouth?

Btw, Feel free to make a salient point at any time. I'm sure everyone is waiting with the same amount of anticipation that I am.

[Daniel]

It will reduce water shortages.

Gimme a break, i'm looking for solutions!

Most glaciers (all) drain into salt water bodies. That means if global warming causes the Ice Caps to melt, it will all be salienated. Thus, not helping shortages. However, I guess the accompaning population decline would decrease the aggregate demand. So, you do have a point.

[Gan]

I'm stunned that even you can be so stubborn Gan.

You refused to take the 20 seconds needed to punch in the words global water shortage into google and educate yourself on an important issue facing the world that far too many know nothing about.

I asked you to provide a reference point. Period, its not a practice lost here on the PC. And for my response I got a very immature and idiotic reply. And thus the fun ensued.



You demanded I provide the links that you could have easily found yourself so at first i refused but finally in the face of your obstinance did look up for you. Asked, not demanded. I dont have that much power over you. And you finally provided sources AFTER other posters were kind enough to give some detail about what you MIGHT be talking about, since you werent very specific in your original post.



Then when I ask you for a similar source to refute my assertion you want me to do your work for you yet AGAIN. I NEVER REFUTED YOUR ASSERTION YOU IMBECILE!!!! I just wanted to see some legitimization as to why you made your claim. Specifically find and post where I said you were wrong in your assertion/hypothesis? You cant, because I didnt.



I'm suppossed to make both my and your argument now? It seems I'm merely left with trying to get you to understand why I asked for your sources and am stuck with your responses as to why you think I'm wrong in refuting your assertions, when I never refuted them in the first place.


Are you that incapable?
I should be asking you that.



I have made the assertion that a shortage of potable water is a very large and rapidly growing problem, one that will lead to armed conflict within twenty years. Thank you captain obvious, I never refuted that your assertions was not a possibility. In fact, its already happend (see six day war quote by ariel sharon). In the same spirit, I'm going to make a claim: Within the next 20 years, there's going to be a sex scandal in government. See, I can make unspecific and overgeneral postulates as well. :clap:



I provided examples of water shortages in our own country simply to show that we ourselves are not immune to this problem. You say that now, nowhere in your original post did it give relevance to the US not being immune. Now you're backtracking.



I never implied that there would be some fight in the US and your attempts to make it seem so have been dissapointing. Go back and reread your post again, considering the lack of detail you gave, it can easily be construed as supporting your initial claim.



I provided everything you could possibly ask within any reasonable measure and you insist on flailing about on tangents simply because it is me you are arguing against. Funny, I just said the same thing about you. Pot meet kettle?



You stoop to calling me names because you are frustrated at being shown to be wrong then have the gall to chastise me for using a simple colloquialism. No, it just feels damn good to highlight your idiocy, names just add texture and a little dash of flavor.



Come on now, provide the sources that show me wrong if you can. See, you still dont get it. Its laughable and now I have better things to do with the family.

Make sure you get the last word in. I'll be back later on tonight to check up on you.

:lol:

[Gan]

Calling someone immature and an idiot at the same time?

You're reaching once again.

First, you post a reference to an uncited quote as the basis for your statement

"Actually, since the Six Day War convinces me so, yes. I think wars could erupt between nation states in the middle east over water as a natural limited resource."

Then steer the entire discussion to the defense of your (False) statement.

So, tell me. What words am I putting into your mouth?

Btw, Feel free to make a salient point at any time. I'm sure everyone is waiting with the same amount of anticipation that I am.

Here's the Wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water#Politics_of_water_distribution

I called you immature because you're hung up on PWNNING people on the internet. Its laughable.

You're putting words in my mouth because you (and Skirmy) think I'm refuting her claim that water scarcity would lead to a conflict. Please read my previous post AGAIN. Kthx.

PS. The Six Day War was in 1967.

[Daniel]

So,

In other words. An uncited, quote from wikipedia about water in Jordan from someone who was fighting in Egypt at the time and had no role in the political process at the time = undeniable fact.

Gotcha.

I think you missed this part of my post:

Then steer the entire discussion to the defense of your (False) statement.

So, who exactly is caught up in pwnting?

[Daniel]

Also, I wouldn't relegate the issue of water to the Middle East. I'd just say thats one area where it is increasingly becoming a problem. You're also seeing the same things in any agri-heavy economy. I.e. Most of the developing world, and even the most developed are going to have to find a solution to their problems. However, it is doubtful that the US or any other highly industrialized nation would resort to war.

The discussion

[CrystalTears]

Gan, usually when one asks for sources to back up their claim it's because they don't believe that claim to begin with.

She said that what she stated was easily found. You insulted her for not giving you sources a google search could provide. She comes back to you with sources now and it's not, what? Good enough? Too little too late?

I really don't know why you had an argument with her in the first place in the other thread if now you're saying you were never refuting the idea in the first place. Talk about being hung up on pwning people when that's all you seem to want to do these days on the PC. You've resorted to childish insults which you never did before. You're reaching, and it's not like you.

[Sean]

Out of curiousity what was Sharon's role in the Six Day War that he can make the assessment as to why the war was fought?

[Daniel]

He was an Armor Commander on the western front with Egypt...who was almost relieved for disobeying a direct order. He won that battle, but lost his job a year later for related incidents.

I.e. No where near Jordan.

[Skirmisher]

calling bullshit to your superfluous claims of running out of water in 20 years with no credible source to back it up.
I made no such superfluous claim although i'm sure you might wish I had.

I said there would be conflict amidst the increasing problem of depleting potable water supplies.


But since you're obviously too retarded to get the fact that OTHERS NEED TO SEE PROOF OF YOUR OUTLANDISH CLAIMS... well, we'll just have to deal with it.

Thank you captain obvious, I never refuted that your assertions was not a possibility.

Outlandish or obvious, what's it going to be?

Come on man, you got to pick one and run with it.

[Gan]

The Six day war wasn't fought over water. Just so you know.



For my friend Daniel:


Tension began developing between Israel and Arab countries in the 1960s. Israel began to implement its National Water Carrier plan, which pumps water from the Sea of Galilee to irrigate south and central Israel. The project was in accordance with a plan proposed by US envoy Eric Johnston in 1955, and agreed to by Arab engineers. Arab governments refused to participate however, because of the implied recognition of Israel. In secret meetings, Israel and Jordan agreed to abide by the water quotas set by the plan.
http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/6daywar.htm


THE STRUGGLE OVER WATER WAS a major factor in the deterioration of Arab-Israeli relations that led to the Six-Day War in 1967. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb1370/is_200409/ai_n13132188


The number of dangerous incidents on the Syrian border increased following Israel’s activation of the National Water Carrier from the Sea of Galilee to the Negev in 1964. Syria and the other Arab countries opposed the National Water Carrier project and tried to destroy it by diverting the tributaries of the Jordan river located in their territories; Israel bombed the diversion works in response. This tension came against the backdrop of the on-going border clashes along the demilitarized zone between Israel and Syria, as Syria resisted Israel's attempts to increase use of the DMZ for Israeli agriculture. (The DMZ was the result of the terms of the Israel-Syria armistice signed on July 20, 1949 (http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_war_end.php).) Syria launched attacks on Israeli farmers cultivating land in the demilitarized zone and on Israeli fishing boats and other craft in the Sea of Galilee, shelling from the commanding Golan Heights that rise dramatically to the east of the border areas. http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_sixday_backgd.php





The struggle over water was a major factor in the deterioration of Arab-Israeli relations that led to the Six-Day War in 1967. http://www.iupress.indiana.edu/journals/israel/iss9-3.html

[Gan]

I made no such superfluous claim although i'm sure you might wish I had.

I said there would be conflict amidst the increasing problem of depleting potable water supplies.



Outlandish or obvious, what's it going to be?

Come on man, you got to pick one and run with it.

Outlandish referring to the 20 year remark, with no specific backing up who, what, when, and where.

Obvious since its common knowledge that wars can be fought over oil, water, boundries, etc.

Does that work for you?

I can get out the water colors if you wish.

[Daniel]

The discussion




Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Also, I wouldn't relegate the issue of water to the Middle East. I'd just say thats one area where it is increasingly becoming a problem. You're also seeing the same things in any agri-heavy economy. I.e. Most of the developing world, and even the most developed are going to have to find a solution to their problems. However, it is doubtful that the US or any other highly industrialized nation would resort to war.

The discussion


To refresh your memory.

[Parkbandit]

I thought Ganalon's issue with Skirmish was that she claimed that a war WILL take place in the next 20 years over water.

I had the same issue.

PS - I watered my lawn twice today... just because I can.

[Daniel]

Apparently not.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I thought Ganalon's issue with Skirmish was that she claimed that a war WILL take place in the next 20 years over water.

I had the same issue.

PS - I watered my lawn twice today... just because I can.

OMG PB CAUSED THE END OF THE WORLD, OH NOEZ.

I keed, I keed.

Anyway. While I think water shortages may become a problem, I don't think any country will view war as a great way to solve this problem.

[Daniel]

Why not?

[zhelas]

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/photography/includes/images/080406lavon.jpg

This is Lake Lavon in Collin County Texas. This lake is over 18 feet below normal level. It will take about 85 million gallons of water to fill this back up to normal levels. They are trying to pump water from some of the surrounding lakes to help ease the shortage.

Cities like Mckinney are on water restrictions till 2008.

Couple of factors contribute to this.

-It has been and still is extremely dry here in North East Texas. This could be blamed on Global Warming or maybe it is a fluke.

-Poor resource planning. All of Collin County in Texas gets their water from one lake. Which leads into the last reason

-Money. Some of the drinkable water shortages don't necessarily come from lack of rain or polution. The housing industry is booming. New Houses are being constructed. The towns want to increase their tax revenue. So there is no control. Folks move into a community and are not even told there are water restrictions. So you buy a new house. And there isn't even enough water to support you living there.

[zhelas]

In Collin County there are folks that go around to see if you are violating the water restrictions. If you are they will turn your water off at your house.

[zhelas]

Another frightening factor about this lake was what was uncovered as the water levels retreated. This relates to the earlier posts concerning polution. There were cars, washing machines, motorcycles, engine blocks and many other things found that were at the bottom of a reservoir.

You would think that the community or government would see this as an opportunity to help clean up the lake. But no. All of these luxuries of life will remain there so when or if the lake fills back up, the residents can continue to drink from the lake.

Yes there are rumors of a classaction lawsuit.

[DeV]

While I think water shortages may become a problem, I don't think any country will view war as a great way to solve this problem.In some parts of the world it is past the point of "may become a problem". Some parts of the Middle East and Africa deal with water shortage on a daily basis.

Future and present conflicts over water mainly in second and third world countries are possible and this is especially a matter of concern among countries that share the same water source.

Plus, I don't believe Skirm mentioned anything about war being a way to solve this problem.

[Parkbandit]

[img]
-It has been and still is extremely dry here in North East Texas. This could be blamed on Global Warming or maybe it is a fluke.


HERE is what my issue is right there. The lake dried up due to global warming? WTF!?

You don't have a good idea as to why this lake dried up since there was water in the past.. so you blame Global Warming. Why not blame God? What about the Devil? Or ask your Grandfather about that lake and see if it was dry any other time. Maybe ask the farmers in the area that are using the lake to irrigate their crops. Or the municiple that is using that lake for the town's drinking water.

[Parkbandit]

In some parts of the world it is past the point of "may become a problem". Some parts of the Middle East and Africa deal with water shortage on a daily basis.

Future and present conflicts over water mainly in second and third world countries are possible and this is especially a matter of concern among countries that share the same water source.

Plus, I don't believe Skirm mentioned anything about war being a way to solve this problem.

Much of the Middle East is a desert.
Much of Africa is a desert.

It really doesn't surprise me in the least that there is a water shortage there.. since there has always been a water shortage there.

I'm pretty sure if I lived in a desert and I didn't have water.. I would move.

[Parkbandit]

Anyway. While I think water shortages may become a problem, I don't think any country will view war as a great way to solve this problem.

Wars have been fought for far less reasons.

[Sean]

Much of the Middle East is a desert.
Much of Africa is a desert.

It really doesn't surprise me in the least that there is a water shortage there.. since there has always been a water shortage there.

I'm pretty sure if I lived in a desert and I didn't have water.. I would move.

Where

The obvious answer being: To water... But if everyone in the middle east and africa just uprooted to the coastal regions or huddled around the various rivers/lakes you don't think you'd have an overpopulation and kill those ecosystems as well?

[CrystalTears]

That's it. I'm convinced that Sam Kinison was reincarnated into PB when he died.

YOU LIVE IN THE FUCKING SAND! STOP SENDING MONEY AND SEND U-HAULS INSTEAD TO TAKE THE PEOPLE TO WHERE THE FOOD IS!

[Sean]

That's it. I'm convinced that Sam Kinison was reincarnated into PB when he died.

YOU LIVE IN THE FUCKING SAND! STOP SENDING MONEY AND SEND U-HAULS INSTEAD TO TAKE THE PEOPLE TO WHERE THE FOOD IS!

Except Sam Kinison was funny. :( I miss when PB was actually funny.

[Gan]

I get a chuckle when I see global warming blamed for droughts.

[zhelas]

HERE is what my issue is right there. The lake dried up due to global warming? WTF!?

You don't have a good idea as to why this lake dried up since there was water in the past.. so you blame Global Warming. Why not blame God? What about the Devil? Or ask your Grandfather about that lake and see if it was dry any other time. Maybe ask the farmers in the area that are using the lake to irrigate their crops. Or the municiple that is using that lake for the town's drinking water.

Yo if you read the rest of the post you would see that i blamed it on Money. But no you decided to fan the fire. Most of the problems with water is not the polution but the over population drawing on a limited resource but nooo.... I see you live in this area so you really know what is going on.

[Skirmisher]

I get a chuckle when I see global warming blamed for droughts.

You wont see me saying that.

You will find me saying that the explosion in numbers of humans along with the wasteful and destructive use of the small amount of potable water that we are lucky enough to have are the cause for the situation we now face.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Wars have been fought for far less reasons.


I think so as well but the assertion that I got (not from you but from others) is that the main cause of war will be water, and not other things.

I'm sure there'll be skirmishes/fights over water control, there have been since the beginning of time. But the big players in way of countries aren't going to piss away their resources fighting for water that'll be used up eventually anyway-- they're going to try to develop the technology to conserve and renew clean and drinkable water at a faster rate.

[Daniel]

they're going to try to develop the technology to conserve and renew clean and drinkable water at a faster rate.

Subsitute Oil for water and ask yourself if you make any fucking sense.

[Gan]

The scariest part of the water equation keeps ending with government as the product (policy makers).

Who's responsibility is it to ensure water is available for its population? Government.

Who's responsibility is it to protect the water resources owned/available to its population? Government

Who will make the determination if force is the only resort to acquiring/maintaining water resources for its population? Government

The only equation where Government is not the product is: Who's the first to suffer the effects of not having enough water resources to sustain its population? The people.

[DeV]

It really doesn't surprise me in the least that there is a water shortage there.. since there has always been a water shortage there.Change water shortage to famine and hunger depravation. It doesn't make the problem any less for those involved. The fact is, you don't have to care. No one is asking you to and I'm certainly not trying to change your mind. Your reply doesn't negate what I originally stated nor the entire point of this thread.


I'm pretty sure if I lived in a desert and I didn't have water.. I would move.I'm pretty sure you'd find a way to adapt to your environment. It's easy to forget that you experience the luxury of being able to even think those words, let alone carry them out, and unfortunately everyone doesn't share it.

[Kranar]

I'm astonished that people don't think a lack of water could result in heavy armed conflict.

I suppose water is something we so take for granted we don't realize just how important it is to virtually every aspect of our lives.

Industrialized nations have fought not only over oil, but over freaking bananas! Water is definitely going to be a source of conflict. I don't know if it's going to be in 20 years or 100 years... but it will definitely happen.

In the last century, the vast majority of the world's resources have been held in the hands of so few. To think that this trend can simply continue without immense consequences will be the lesson we all come to learn in the 21st century.

[Artha]

Subsitute Oil for water and ask yourself if you make any fucking sense.

Who ever heard of drinkable oil!?

[Back]

Only 1 percent of the world’s water is potable. I can see how it could be a problem as we are already in dispute right here in America over water in certain areas. The South West and Mexico comes to mind.

[Parkbandit]

I'm astonished that people don't think a lack of water could result in heavy armed conflict.

I suppose water is something we so take for granted we don't realize just how important it is to virtually every aspect of our lives.

Industrialized nations have fought not only over oil, but over freaking bananas! Water is definitely going to be a source of conflict. I don't know if it's going to be in 20 years or 100 years... but it will definitely happen.

In the last century, the vast majority of the world's resources have been held in the hands of so few. To think that this trend can simply continue without immense consequences will be the lesson we all come to learn in the 21st century.

Definately?

Man, I wish I had that crystal ball you people use with this type of regularity. Using terms like WILL happen and Definitely happen makes you look retarded when talking about the future.

[Parkbandit]

Only 1 percent of the world’s water is potable. I can see how it could be a problem as we are already in dispute right here in America over water in certain areas. The South West and Mexico comes to mind.


Thankfully, most of the other 74% of the world's water can be made potable.

[HarmNone]

You might want to read up a bit about desalination, PB. Just a suggestion ...

[Daniel]

Definately?

Man, I wish I had that crystal ball you people use with this type of regularity. Using terms like WILL happen and Definitely happen makes you look retarded when talking about the future.

Lol. So, in a perfect world there is a remote possibility that water won't cause conflict.

So, why worry?

[DeV]

Definately?

Man, I wish I had that crystal ball you people use with this type of regularity. Using terms like WILL happen and Definitely happen makes you look retarded when talking about the future.Yea, I hear ya. I wish I had that same crystal ball to offer the country when it was predicated that Iraq posed a preeminent threat and an attack on the US was definitely, likely to inevitably happen in the future, hence conflict and war ensued. I think that's kinda, sorta in the same area of retardedness you're refering to.

To be honest, if you think it's unlikely, convince us otherwise. You've had ample opportunity.

[Parkbandit]

Yea, I hear ya. I wish I had that same crystal ball to offer the country when it was predicated that Iraq posed a preeminent threat and an attack on the US was definitely, likely to inevitably happen in the future, hence conflict and war ensued. I think that's kinda, sorta in the same area of retardedness you're refering to.

To be honest, if you think it's unlikely, convince us otherwise. You've had ample opportunity.

I've poured over every single item I could find to see where George W Bush said that Iraq was definately going to atack the US.

Didn't find one instance.

[AnticorRifling]

Wouldn't you just make the mage in your party make a few stacks? Why is this such an issue?

[zhelas]

I'm astonished that people don't think a lack of water could result in heavy armed conflict.

I suppose water is something we so take for granted we don't realize just how important it is to virtually every aspect of our lives.

Industrialized nations have fought not only over oil, but over freaking bananas! Water is definitely going to be a source of conflict. I don't know if it's going to be in 20 years or 100 years... but it will definitely happen.

In the last century, the vast majority of the world's resources have been held in the hands of so few. To think that this trend can simply continue without immense consequences will be the lesson we all come to learn in the 21st century.

Folks never used to think that people would be buying bottled water or filters. You turned on your tap and there it was. Wars over water? Not yet. Lawsuits over lack of water resources, already happening.

[Drew2]

Wouldn't you just make the mage in your party make a few stacks? Why is this such an issue?

QFT

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Subsitute Oil for water and ask yourself if you make any fucking sense.

This has nothing to do with oil-- it has to do with the fact that there's actually a shit load of water on this planet, we just don't have the means/technology to make that shit load drinkable. Why is it so hard for people to imagine a country putting their money and resources to technology rather than weapons to go take over someone elses water pool?

[DeV]

I've poured over every single item I could find to see where George W Bush said that Iraq was definately going to atack the US.Good, because I never stated he said that mostly because he never said it directly and secondly I couldn't find any mention of his name in my post to begin with. Swap Rumsfield with Bush and you'd be onto something.

There's no reason to dwell on this particular subject mainly because I used this example to reinforce the notion that retardness is not a prerequisite for making educated guesses about future conflicts. It happens all the time. And it remains the thing which you've yet to counter with any revelant material.

[Celephais]

I don't have time to read this whole thread, but please tell me that it is laced with Dune references. I can't wait till we're at a point where we're killing to "take a person's water".

[Gan]

A little spice would be nice...

[Skirmisher]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061031/sc_nm/environment_china_water_dc


China turns to salt water to ease drought


Mon Oct 30, 10:44 PM ET

Drought-stricken China, where hundreds of millions of people are without regular access to drinking water, is turning to desalinated sea water to help end the crisis, the government said on Tuesday.

Apart from widespread drought, factories have ignored pollution hazards and dumped toxic industrial waste into rivers and lakes in China, home to one-fifth of the world's population but only 7 percent of its water resources.

"China is expected to desalinate 800,000 to 1 million cubic meters of sea water per day and use 55 billion cubic meters annually by 2010," the State Development and Reform Commission said, detailing China's ninth five-year plan.

China desalinated 120,000 cubic meters of sea water per day last year.

It was not immediately clear how China, which is also desperately short of fuel, would power the energy-hungry desalination plants.

More than 600 medium- and large-sized cities in China were now suffering "serious water shortages," Water Resources Minister Wang Shucheng said this month.

China is investing billions in a project to transfer water from its lush south to the arid north.

The so-called western route of the project could involve harnessing rivers cascading from the Tibetan highlands in the Himalayas to quench the thirst of Qinghai province and other poor western areas.

But Wang said the proposed system of tunnels stretching 300 km (190 miles), and costing more than the $25 billion Three Gorges Dam hydroelectric mega-project, was unnecessary, unscientific and not feasible.

[Sean of the Thread]

Goodthing Florida is ahead of the game on desalination.

[Gan]

Wonder what China will do with the concentrate by-product of the de-salination plants. If they throw it back into the ocean it could have negative consequences to the local fish/food resources.

[Artha]

If they just get the salt, they could always sell it/use it. Of course, there's got to be some nastiness aside from that, which does inded make it an interesting problem.

[Skirmisher]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/02/nyregion/02water.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

THE NEW YORK TIMES
December 2, 2006

As Aquifer Runs Dry, L.I. Water Debate Ensues
By BRUCE LAMBERT

Thousands of years ago, rain fell on Long Island and seeped hundreds of feet through the sandy soil, coming to rest on bedrock. It formed what geologists call the Lloyd aquifer, the island’s oldest, deepest, purest — and scarcest — groundwater.

Now, after 60 years of virtually unchecked suburban growth and consumption of the island’s most precious resource, public officials and civic groups are fighting over control of the remaining water supply. It is as if these were the island’s last drops to drink, which is precisely what environmentalists insist the aquifer should be reserved for......