Bin Laden dead?

[Parkbandit]

News stories out there that claim Bin Laden died about a month ago of Typhoid fever. If this is true.. it really brings happiness to me. It's the best thing that could have happened to him imo.

Knowing he lived the last years of his life, hiding in caves and dying of a disease that is relatively easy to cure.. but if you don't get the right drugs, you feel like absolute shit until you die a slow, miserable death.

[Bobmuhthol]

There sure is a lot known about him, considering he was hiding in caves.

[HarmNone]

The original report of Bin Laden's death came from Saudi security services. Think about that for a moment ...

[GuildRat]

Reports are coming in from French journalists too, not that they're the most reliable of sources.

MHO, I hope he's dead and burning in hell with a dozens virgins laughing at him.

[Sean of the Thread]

I want proof before I believe anything the media spews.

[Skeeter]

I need to see a body

[sst]

Saudi security passed it on to the french, that is why you hear about the french reporting it. If it is true its a big thing, it seems Allah is not protecting the terrorists afterall.

[Gan]

There's two reports out on Bin Ladin.

First is that he's dead of Typhoid.

The second is that he's deathly ill due to Thypoid.

Neither of which are confirmed, or will be confirmed until they can locate a body/DNA source.

We've all seen fake death's before. Lets confirm this before jumping into conclusions.

[Gan]

Saudi security passed it on to the french, that is why you hear about the french reporting it. If it is true its a big thing, it seems Allah is not protecting the terrorists afterall.

Instead of 72 virgins in a castle, I hope its a prison and he's with 72 cell mates, and that he's the virgin.

[sst]

at least this way he cant really be considered a martyr

[Warriorbird]

On topic: Dead...and dead of old age? Who knows?

[Gan]

at least this way he cant really be considered a martyr

Therein lies the key. Death by natural causes eliminates the concept of passionate belief in him being a martyr killed by the evil West.

Hoping that there is justice on the other side of the light is nice, but its not like we positively know whats going to happen once death embraces us.

I'm satisfied knowing that he's dead, and no longer able to force his twisted vision upon others in the living realm.

The sad thing is that now we have to deal with the ones who will pick up where he will have left off.

[HarmNone]

at least this way he cant really be considered a martyr

To us, perhaps. I don't think you'll find this true amongst his followers.

[Fallen]

wait.. Bin Laden is dead?

[Kainen]

Sooo.. on topic,
I have to agree with those who want DNA proof. It's far to easy to stage your own death in these circumstances. I don't hope he's dead, IF ONLY, to answer in a court of law for what he's done.

[HarmNone]

All off-topic posts have been removed from this thread. You can insult one another elsewhere; preferably, not on these boards.

[Artha]

I think it's too good to be true.

[Skirmisher]

I think it's too good to be true.

Yah, it would be nice, but i'm surely not going to let myself get excited by any such reports unless its followed with dna or some other proof.

[Asha]

Oh he's dead again? Propaganda I'm sure (hope not).
Body plz.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I think his followers could still view him as a Martyr if he did die. The West forced him to hide which prevented him from seeking the healthcare to save his life.. there are many ways it can be construed.

Personally, I'd rather he was caught and tried as some sort of closure to those who lost people in the 9-11 attacks. I've always thought that trying people, even those who are obviously guilty, sends a clear message about Democracy to everyone.

[Daniel]

Except most people in non democractic countries and I'd hope democratic ones, see no need to put on a circus when it comes to douche bags.

[Back]

If this is true, the only disappointing thing is we never caught him.

[Hulkein]

If this is true, the only disappointing thing is we never caught him.

He wouldn't be dead of typhoid fever if he wasn't forced to stay out of civilization because of us.

[Back]

He wouldn't be dead of typhoid fever if he wasn't forced to stay out of civilization because of us.

Now thats some serious spin. Otherwise known as looking at the better side of things.

I’ll grant you that, but its still not as good as us having him in custody.

[Artha]

He wouldn't be dead of typhoid fever if he wasn't forced to stay out of civilization because of us.
Kind of like a reverse siege.

[Berylla]

I just keep thinking it is a trick.

Make the world believe he is dead so we stop looking, then launch another attack on the US and its people.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would want proof.

[Skirmisher]

I just keep thinking it is a trick.

Make the world believe he is dead so we stop looking, then launch another attack on the US and its people.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would want proof.

Just reminded me of the quote from The Usual Suspects.


The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Except most people in non democractic countries and I'd hope democratic ones, see no need to put on a circus when it comes to douche bags.

Douche bags or not everybody has a right to a fair trial. How can we say our Justice System and Democracy is awesome if we won't even use it?

[Soulpieced]

The greatest trick the devil ever played was making the world believe he didn't exist.

[Stanley Burrell]

He is in Northern Pakistan, still, foraging for cave moss for the Terrorist's Guild (nothing new for him.)

Only if he himself becomes bold will he be caught and I do think that he (OSB) has the sad intelligence and a bendable sovereign nature network (of Pakistan) to acknowledge this, as well.

The amount of certainty the U.S. will appropriately need to commence a SEALS mission is non-existent, unfortunately.

[TheEschaton]

When I read about this yesterday, I thought everyone was being really cautious? The French said it was nowhere near confirmed, and never meant to be leaked, and now there's an internal investigatio in the DSGCE (or whatever the fucking initials are), and CIA said they had no reason to believe it either.

On an interesting analysis - some people were saying if bin Laden really died, Al Qaeda would actually publicize it as quickly as possible, for damage control (not a month later). The man puts himself out there (in terms of media) too frequently for him to just go years between communications.

-TheE-

[Stanley Burrell]

When I read about this yesterday, I thought everyone was being really cautious? The French said it was nowhere near confirmed, and never meant to be leaked, and now there's an internal investigatio in the DSGCE (or whatever the fucking initials are), and CIA said they had no reason to believe it either.

On an interesting analysis - some people were saying if bin Laden really died, Al Qaeda would actually publicize it as quickly as possible, for damage control (not a month later). The man puts himself out there (in terms of media) too frequently for him to just go years between communications.

-TheE-

With the paradox being several individuals possessing thousands of VHS tapes to create as much uncertainty as is possible if the aforementioned holds true :shrug:

[ElanthianSiren]

Body please -- vote #4828540691846

-M

[Parkbandit]

Now thats some serious spin. Otherwise known as looking at the better side of things.

I’ll grant you that, but its still not as good as us having him in custody.


It's better that he died like this if it's true. This once proud and strong man who brought the US to it's knees was reduced to a cowardly pussy hiding in a cave, too scared to come out and get a simple cure to a disease that isn't supposed to be fatal.

If we captured him, we would have to worry about liberals making sure we are treating him perfectly, making sure he had the protection of the US Constitution, make sure we didn't abuse his rights as an American citizen. We would have to worry about his followers trying to free him or holding us hostage to trade for his freedom.

This was the best case senario if it's true.

[TheEschaton]

Or, it would of been better had he died of typhoid......on national TV, in the presence of an objective observer (who wasn't American, for murder conspiracy reasons).

-TheE-

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm really kind of wondering how someone can claim that he died of typhoid fever and simultaneously talk about how secluded he was that he couldn't get such accessible medicine -- if someone knows where he is, they can easily treat him.

[RichardCranium]

Douche bags or not everybody has a right to a fair trial.

But they shouldn't.




How can we say our Justice System and Democracy is awesome if we won't even use it?

Democracy is cool but our justice system isn't awesome. It sucks.

[sst]

Douche bags or not every AMERICAN has a right to a fair trial.
Fixed that for you
Oh yeah BTW he already pled guilty

[sst]

I'm really kind of wondering how someone can claim that he died of typhoid fever and simultaneously talk about how secluded he was that he couldn't get such accessible medicine -- if someone knows where he is, they can easily treat him.

Its a logistical issue Bob, if hes in bumfuck where you have to hike for a week to get there and back it might be a problem getting the "cure" (if he is dead)

[Skirmisher]

The greatest trick the devil ever played was making the world believe he didn't exist.

Um...yeah.

[Tsa`ah]

We're expected to believe that the might of the US was so great that he was forced into a life of extreme seclusion, but not secluded enough to prevent things like video tapes and followers going in and out, arms, food ... pretty much anything BUT medicine?

I'm sorry, if he's dead he's dead ... I'm not buying he's dead in any way shape or form because of US action. Also count me in on the "body please" crowd.

On the note of being forced into living in caves ... it reminds me of a scene from "Almost Heroes". One of the crew is dragged off and mauled by a bear. He's already lost an ear (which other crew members are trying to use to communicate with him), and when he returns he's missing his leg. When he asks about avenging his loss he's told that they'll leave the bear to die a slow death ... in about 40 years it will be so decrepit with age that it will wish for death and realize it shouldn't have ever attacked the man.

So ya ... let Bin Laden die on his own time ... we're so powerful as a nation that we can "impose" that end on him.

[TheEschaton]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissiia
Douche bags or not every AMERICAN has a right to a fair trial.

Fixed that for you
Oh yeah BTW he already pled guilty

"We hold these truths to be self evident, that ALL MEN are created equal..."

Seriously, I think some(all){most} of our problems on the foreign policy front comes from this misguided notion that Americans are somehow intrinsically better, or worth more, than everyone else, and that our Constitution only applies to us.

I'd agree the specific terms themselves may only apply to us, but the general philosophy applies to EVERYONE.

-TheE-

[Hulkein]

E, please get off his dick, it's already evident from this thread and the picture thread that you're going to go out of your way to refute anything he says since you found out who it is.

Here's some advice, turn down the hippy meter and shut up.

[TheEschaton]

I've known sst was Dave for a good while now, Hulkein. At least for a week after I was back. He doesn't exactly hide it.

And, if I remember, I didn't really agree with anything he said before he left for Iraq anyways.

Here's some advice for you: stop responding to legitimate responses with "OMFG ju TEH EVIL UNPATRIOTIC SMELLY HIPPIE!!!!111"

-TheE-

[Hulkein]

Again, the meter, turn it down.

[TheEschaton]

Good luck with class, Hulkein. I've got to run to Torts right now.

Otherwise, I would so wtfpwn your ass.

-TheE-

[Hulkein]

Haha, I'm writing my closed memo right now. Have fun in class, where are you guys in Torts? We just got done privileges, I have an exam on it coming up.

[DeV]

I'm with the "need to see a body" crowd. Uncertainty is not acceptable nor is it good enough when it comes to the death of the #1 terrorist in the world.

[Anebriated]

Would have sucked if we caught him then had to cure him of his sickness. I hope the rumors are true.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Fixed that for you
Oh yeah BTW he already pled guilty

Kind of like the E said, a tenant of Democracy and Freedom is that EVERY SINGLE last human being has rights. And that those rights are not to be taken away until they are judged and given a chance to defend themselves in an official court. If they decide not to take that chance, fine, but at least they HAD the chance and that is what is important.

It is so fake and superficial to the rest of the world to do a secret trial or no trial at all, because all that is saying is that we don't trust our own Judicial system to do it's job and that we can't actually prove that he did it. Not to mention the kind of closure it can bring people to testify against someone like that.

[TheEschaton]

Have fun in class, where are you guys in Torts?

We just finished up duty and breach in terms of negligence, and did negligence per se today.

-TheE-

[Sean of the Thread]

Man I really honestly can hope you get a job when you finish with that shit.

[StrayRogue]

Yeah, he might have to resort to cheating on online poker to feed his kids if not :(

[Latrinsorm]

a tenant of Democracy and Freedom is that EVERY SINGLE last human being has rights.I don't think it's fair to say that's what the Framers intended, what with those problems with women and 3/5ths and so on. I also think if you really pin people down, a lot of Americans don't believe that, because a lot of Americans go out for the whole "first and foremost: intolerable intolerability" thing.

I don't think it's coherent to deny that all human beings have rights, but we all saw how that thread turned out.

[Hulkein]

We're expected to believe that the might of the US was so great that he was forced into a life of extreme seclusion, but not secluded enough to prevent things like video tapes and followers going in and out, arms, food ... pretty much anything BUT medicine?

There isn't a constant line of supplies going to Bin Laden, otherwise he would be found. Where do you get the idea that there is a constant stream of arms and video tapes going in there? They aren't actually using the AKs they put on display on their videos, they sit there unfired. They most likely get their own food and water through herding or whatever, not exactly the same as getting antibiotics. Also, when was his last video tape released? How many in the past year? It's not like they have camels coming to him with a stack of the latest wares from Radio Shack.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I don't think it's fair to say that's what the Framers intended, what with those problems with women and 3/5ths and so on. I also think if you really pin people down, a lot of Americans don't believe that, because a lot of Americans go out for the whole "first and foremost: intolerable intolerability" thing.

I don't think it's coherent to deny that all human beings have rights, but we all saw how that thread turned out.

You have really good points.. I get what you're saying about what was intended. I guess though that because our Courts HAVE determined that more than just Educated and Land-owning white males have rights and that everyone in the US (except those convicted of crimes and a few other sticky situations [like fetuses vs. babies for the abortion and human rights arguments that haven't been decided]) has rights.. then I believe more than just every US Citizen should have inalienable rights. I feel that every human being.. it's just a natural application IMO.

[Tsa`ah]

There isn't a constant line of supplies going to Bin Laden, otherwise he would be found. Where do you get the idea that there is a constant stream of arms and video tapes going in there? They aren't actually using the AKs they put on display on their videos, they sit there unfired. They most likely get their own food and water through herding or whatever, not exactly the same as getting antibiotics. Also, when was his last video tape released? How many in the past year? It's not like they have camels coming to him with a stack of the latest wares from Radio Shack.

No, you assume.

He's what we have for the facts on his where abouts, accessibility, capabilities, and quality of life ....





.... nothing. We don't know, we have rumor.

We can assume it's long days/weeks of hiking smuggling in and out what can evade our vast net of detection, but that's an assumption.

We may be able to read the date on a dime from space, but we need to know where that dime is to do so.

We can launch a patriot missile straight up a gnat's ass from hundreds of miles away, but we need to know where that gnat is to do so.

We have nothing on Osama, just that he may be dead, he may be alive. The truth is that no one really wants to admit that this scumbag got out of dodge before the posse came in and now we really have no fucking clue.

Tapes ... oh those are pre-recorded, he's dead or dying.

Civilization, he can't go near it and will/is dying of the most treatable diseases.

The munitions we see in tapes, those are for show ... they probably work, no one knows how to use them.

He's been alienated by his own people, other groups want nothing to do with him ... they fear us more than they covet their connection to him.

I'm sorry, but history shows that assuming the fate of an enemy will always be disastrous to some extent. Alexander the Great assumed himself done with Darius after conquering Persia. His march of conquest had to be halted when Darius challenged him after giving him time to marshal another army. In fact, after Darius' second defeat, Alexander had to chase him down (though kidnapped) to ensure that he wouldn't raise a 3rd army.

[Hulkein]

No, you assume.

He's what we have for the facts on his where abouts, accessibility, capabilities, and quality of life ....

You're also assuming.

The only difference in our assumptions is mine is more grounded in reality. If he had a constant flow of munitions, food, and medicine going to him, he'd be caught.

[Apathy]

I bet if we just follow the trail of bull-legged camels we could find him...

[HarmNone]

The problem with trying to hunt someone down in Afghanistan is that many places are riddled with caves, natural and augmented by human hands. Many connect, and the accesses can be very difficult to locate.

[Tsa`ah]

You're also assuming.

The only difference in our assumptions is mine is more grounded in reality. If he had a constant flow of munitions, food, and medicine going to him, he'd be caught.


Reality guy?

I don't know what reality you live in, but Pakistan and Afghanistan are not third world countries, and although it may be difficult for the average person to get ahold of anti-biotics in prescription form, it wouldn't be that difficult for someone with cash to walk out of a doctors office with just about anything they wanted.

Supply line? Why would you need a supply line?
Dead due to lack of supplies? Like he couldn't just start sucking down some triple anti biotic for the Polymyxin B Sulfate, or Neomycin Sulfate?

There is no reality in your assumption, just a wee bit more faith in our abilities to justify the stance that he is isolated and can't get his hands on anything.