News from the other side of the pond... (another deathpenalty/abortion discussion)

[Gan]

Sex slave 'pregnant by kidnapper'


The girl held for eight years as a sex slave in a tiny cellar in Vienna, is pregnant by her captor, it was claimed today. Natascha Kampusch, now 18, escaped the clutches of pervert Wolfgang Priklopil last Wednesday, but now according to German newspaper reports, it is feared she is carrying his child.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=402672&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

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I'm putting this in the politics folder because:

What do you think about the baby she's carrying?
Should she abort?
Will she abort?
Should she just marry the bloke and call it even stevens?

Kidnapper: Edited because I missed the 'threw himself under a train' part. :(
It will be interesting to see the opinions as differentiated between UK and US.

My opinions:
If she wants to terminate the pregnancy, she should be able to, up to the end of the second trimester, after that the fetus is viable outside the womb and at the point at which I consider a viable human being. Then if she does not wish to be around the baby, it can be placed for adoption.

The guy should be given life in prison at a minimum, with no parole... or the needle. At no time should this guy deserve the freedom to walk the streets again.

[Back]

He threw himself in front of a train the day she escaped.

Her choice.

If he were alive? Life in prison being “Otto’s” sex-slave.

[Some Rogue]

He's dead, so point is moot.

She's reportedly showing signs of Stockholm syndrome and has been defending her captor. I doubt she'll want to abort.

[Sean of the Thread]

Maybe he didn't kidnap her but instead rescued her from her shitty parents.

[Jorddyn]

As was said, he's dead so what happens to him is irrelevant now. Tough call had he not been a chicken and thrown himself under the train.

What should happen to the child? That's her decision, and with all the media attention, I don't envy her at all. Whatever she decides, though, I hope she gets some serious counseling.

Jorddyn

[DeV]

c. She should seek help quickly for her sake and the baby's.

[Miss X]

Agreed on the Stockholm syndrome, I think that makes it unlikely she will choose to have an abortion.

Personally? I think she should probably have the abortion, within the legal limits obviously.

[Landrion]

Whatever the woman wants to do. If shes not competent to be making decisions after her ordeal (as determined by a professional) her parents will have to.

[Drew]

It's not the baby's fault this guy was a sick bastard. What (moral) right does she have to murder it because it's father was evil?

[HarmNone]

I'd say her moral right lies in that which SHE considers moral. We don't know what that is. It may agree with your conclusion of what is moral in this case. It may not agree.

[Daniel]

It's not the baby's fault this guy was a sick bastard. What (moral) right does she have to murder it because it's father was evil?

The moral responsibility to not propogate the DNA of sick fucks that abduct girls and keep them locked in a basement.

[Drew]

It's always immoral to murder someone.

Well, actually, that's not true, there are people who don't believe that it's immoral to murder people. Morals being relative and such.

Anyway, the question was: What do you think should be done with the baby?
What I think is that no matter where you came from you have the right not to be murdered.

[Daniel]

I disagree on the whole murder bit. I think there are plenty of people in this world that should be shot in the face.

In regards to abortion, I think its morally reprehensible to intentionally bring people in this world where they will either be a burden on society or not have access to the basic neccessities of life (unrelated to topic).

The choice should be that of the mothers, and if she chooses to have the baby than she should take responsibility for whatever he turns out to be.

[Drew]

You know, if you're already here you can always take yourself out. Plenty of people have come from horrible conditions and risen to greatness.

[Jorddyn]

You know, if you're already here you can always take yourself out.

Too few people who should take advantage of this opportunity do.

Jorddyn

[TheEschaton]

I'd say her moral right lies in that which SHE considers moral. We don't know what that is. It may agree with your conclusion of what is moral in this case. It may not agree.

Morality doesn't change from person to person. That's why it's morality.

Of all my radically liberal views....abortion isn't one of them. I feel conflicted about the issue every time it comes up. I think it sucks that a potential life can be snuffed because a person doesn't feel they're ready, or feel they're mature enough, or financially stable enough, because it's all psychology, and in the end, I will always believe psychology is all in your head (and that's not a pun, or a play on words, but an indication that it's all abstract, and arbitrary, and therefore, overcomeable)...Even the "mother's health is in danger" piece is all about the psychological fear of death vs. the amazing chance to bring life into the world, IMHO...

...but then again, I don't believe in making people's choices for them, that's the beauty of freedom of choice...you gotta learn your own lessons, usually, the hard way.

-TheE-

[ElanthianSiren]

If it was my child, I'd have to abort it.

I thought about mentioning adoption, however because I've never been terrorized to the point where I start identifying with and striving to please my tormentor, I realized that that probably wouldn't be an answer here. I doubt it would make him very happy that his baby was given away, if she is indeed showing pyschological signs of Stockholm.

Final option -- I'd think the baby would grow into an incredibly romanticized symbol, and the mother might start saying things like "At least some good came out of that situation" and so on while unconsciously exhibiting resentment. I think she will keep it. I think she will regret it.

-M

[TheEschaton]

And again, I think that's all psychobabble bullshit. ;)

Why should she regret it? Is it impossible for good things to come from bad? No.

Is it possible to separate the badness of an event from its good consequences? I don't think so.

People don't need everything to be in context. For example, in a hypothetical situation: a guy is a serious alcoholic, but then his girlfriend is killed by a drunk driver. Because of this, he's forced to confront his addiction, comes to terms with it, and quits drinking. He can A) acknowledge that his girlfriend dying was a shitty thing to happen, B) acknowledge that resolving his alcoholism was a fantastic thing to happen, that probably wouldn't of happened without the first event, and C) not regret that it took something bad to find something positive.

-TheE-

[Gan]

Too few people who should take advantage of this opportunity do.

Jorddyn

Very profound. and QMFT.

[ElanthianSiren]

And again, I think that's all psychobabble bullshit. ;)

Is it impossible for good things to come from bad? No.

Is it possible to separate the badness of an event from its good consequences? I don't think so.

-TheE-

They may. In my opinion, they don't really. Before this woman has a kid, she needs a good shrink. There are certain things that happen to a person's mind when they are molested and abused; as someone mentioned, she's already exhibiting signs of them. Mix a kid in there (that's the kid of your captor), and you're asking for a bigger disturbance. It's that simple.

Further, if she was abducted at age 8, I'd hope she'd be more interested in getting at least a high school education than having a child. While one is not mutually exclusive of the other, the woman is now (I think they said) 18 and lacking the basic foundations of education. In general however, I'll admit that I get uncomfortable when people have kids they can't provide for singularly.

-M
edited to add: if she weighs as much as she did at 10 right now, there are serious health questions that need to be asked before she attempts to carry a baby to term. If she really wants one, I'd think a good doctor would make her focus on boosting her weight to a healthy level first.

[Daniel]

You know, if you're already here you can always take yourself out. Plenty of people have come from horrible conditions and risen to greatness.

Suicide is for pussies.

Define "Plenty"; what percantage are we talking here?

[AnticorRifling]

My parents never gave me the M3 I deserved in highschool. I'm still doing ok.