Yeah, this sounds about right.

[Skirmisher]

China says activist broke his own neck

Hahaha, Chinese government says this guy who has been a huge critic of the Three Gorges Dam broke his own neck just after leaving the police station.

How clumsy of him.




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060727/ap_on_re_as/china_paralyzed_activist;_ylt=AkibdelugSNF9aIuhmi_ 3SpbbBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-




By AUDRA ANG, Associated Press Writer 30 minutes ago

Chinese investigators have concluded that an activist who said he was paralyzed after assailants broke his neck inflicted the injury on himself, his son said Thursday.

"We cannot accept this decision," said Fu Bing, whose father, Fu Xiancai, criticized the government's treatment of people who were forced to relocate as a result of the Three Gorges dam project.

Fu Xiancai was injured three weeks after German public television broadcast an interview in which he said he had been threatened and beaten for complaining about inadequate compensation for relocated residents.

He says that on June 8, he was called into the Zigui County Public Security Bureau in Hubei province and criticized for his television appearance. He was attacked after leaving the police station, he said.

On Wednesday, the head of the security bureau's forensics department and another county official told Fu Bing that experts concluded the injuries were self-inflicted, Fu Bing said.

Investigators refused to release other details, but said they found no other footprints at the scene, indicating his father had been alone, Fu Bing said.

A man who answered the phone at the security bureau Thursday said he was "unclear" about the case and refused to give his name.

Authorities told the Fu family not to appeal the decision or file a new complaint, Fu Bing said.

"My father was beaten with a wooden stick, first on his thighs, then repeatedly on his neck. He was beaten until he fell to the ground and lost consciousness. His body went numb," Fu said.

"He is very upset about the results of this investigation," he said. "He will definitely appeal."

Fu Xiancai underwent an operation last month that may enable him to use a wheelchair, but doctors have said he will not walk again.

The New York-based group Human Rights in China said it was "strongly concerned" about the Chinese investigation.

The rights group said authorities were "unlawfully pressuring Fu Xiancai to forgo any legitimate appeals process and refusing to disclose the experts who determined that Fu could have single-handedly struck himself from behind with such force as to shatter three of his vertebrae."

Political activists in China regularly face suppression by police and security forces. In recent years, activists have complained increasingly about attacks by thugs who they claim act on orders from authorities.

The Three Gorges dam was designed to stop flooding on the Yangtze River and produce enough electricity to light Shanghai. But it required relocating 1.13 million people, generating anger and resentment. The issue is particularly volatile around Zigui, home to many relocated people.

Germany's government has demanded an investigation and punishment for those responsible. The German Embassy in Beijing gave Fu $7,510 to help pay for the surgery.

Fu Bing said his 47-year-old father is slowly recovering, but his muscles are weak and he cannot sit up.

"He's been beaten before, although never this seriously," he said. "But his will is still very strong."

[Sean of the Thread]

Rofl. Chinese govt is complete fucking garbage.

[Wezas]

So glad I'm american. Where they only beat you if you're fighting back.

Or are black.

[DeV]

Let's recap here. He was questioned by police simply for giving an interview criticizing his government's relocation compensation, only to have his neck pwnd and to never be able to walk again, and then it is determined by the same fucks that he broke his own neck. That's totally fucked up. To add, China sucks.

[Sean of the Thread]

<3 commies.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Let's recap here. He was questioned by police simply for giving an interview criticizing his government's relocation compensation, only to have his neck pwnd and to never be able to walk again, and then it is determined by the same fucks that he broke his own neck. That's totally fucked up. To add, China sucks.

That's non-Democracy for you. (I couldn't blame it on them being communist.. they could be any number of other Government types and do that same thing)

[Sean of the Thread]

That's non-Democracy for you. (I couldn't blame it on them being communist.. they could be any number of other Government types and do that same thing)

Or not any number of other governments.

[Ilvane]

Amazing that our government doesn't get more outraged about the human-rights abuse in China and Sudan and other places.

Angela

[Wezas]

Amazing that our government doesn't get more outraged about the human-rights abuse in China and Sudan and other places.

Angela

No oil in China.

[Artha]

^ 1 billion people in China, and from what I hear they kind of own the dollar.

Yay communism!

[StrayRogue]

In a couple of years they'll own the rest of the world pretty much as well.

[Sean of the Thread]

They're going to be pussy whipped by their own capitalism most likely.

[Ilvane]

So Artha, try thinking about it this way. Would you like to be rich with no rights to speak out against your government or middle class and be able to speak your mind?

People get killed for saying they don't like the government around there..thankfully we can say that Bush is an idiot and not get killed.;)

Angela

[Gan]

China's problems will be solved from within eventually.

The old guard of communisim will give way to younger generations of capitalists and democracy will eventually take hold. Look at the advances that have been made in the name of capitalism in the past decade. Not withstanding Tieneneman Square, which did no favors for the government in the long run.

[Ilvane]

Heh, right. Democracy is going to take hold how? With the vast amounts of support from the US?

Just leaving it alone will doubtfully bring democracy, because of things like Tieneneman Square..see what happened then?

They don't die and not pass it on to other generations, Ganalon. Sadly.

Angela

[Gan]

I wasnt thinking of them just passing it on... that never happens with power unless its to a family member of the same regeime.

I was thinking more along the lines of an eventual revolution, but thats years off.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I tend to agree with Ganalon on this one. China has made SOME progress towards Democracy and this is going to have to come from internal changes. The United States is also putting pressure on China, but for once we're not threatening to go in guns blazing, and that's probably a good thing. I'd rather China become a Democracy or Republic or whatever on their own terms and in their own right than be forced into an unnatural situation that degenerates into a civil war where NOBODY is safe.

Also something to consider, and that I know may seem stupid to some people but I do see validity in the statement.. China is WAY WAY bigger than the United States and every other democracy, and who's to say that Democracy will work for a country that big (I mean big population wise)? It's never been done on that huge of a scale and if any government utterly collapses in China, it's going to be horrible for other governments around the world, and economies (including our own). We're all "ra ra ra" about Democracy and yeah, Democracy is great but we can't be 100 percent sure that China's huge population and economy can support it. Maybe China's system of Government needs to be more stable than anything.

It's just a thought.

[Latrinsorm]

who's to say that Democracy will work for a country that big (I mean big population wise)?....India?

I'd rather live in an unstable country than a country where the government would stablyly break my neck for talking, then say it was self-inflicted. It's a lot easier to move away without a broken neck.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

....India?

I'd rather live in an unstable country than a country where the government would stablyly break my neck for talking, then say it was self-inflicted. It's a lot easier to move away without a broken neck.


India still isn't the size of China, nor is it the same economically. It's sort of apples to oranges.

And even if you'd rather live in an unstable country, maybe not everybody would, if it meant that having free speech meant your children didn't get to eat and you were homeless living on the streets.

I seriously doubt that China will remain strictly communist but going totally Democratic and becoming entirely capitalist would spell disaster for their country. As horrible as some of the things the Government has done, they've done well in other areas and I think that even if it takes a gradual amount of time, in time the Government will adjust to fit it's peoples needs.

[Sean of the Thread]

China's problems will be solved from within eventually.

The old guard of communisim will give way to younger generations of capitalists and democracy will eventually take hold. Look at the advances that have been made in the name of capitalism in the past decade. Not withstanding Tieneneman Square, which did no favors for the government in the long run.


Thus my pussy whipped by capatilism statement.

[Latrinsorm]

India is a country that's of very comparable size with China, population-wise, and democracy's been going strong for quite some time now.
if it meant that having free speech meant your children didn't get to eat and you were homeless living on the streets.I can move away if my neck isn't broken. Once my neck's broken, I'm pretty much SOL. People tend to get rowdy once the government starts going around murdering people, so the only way the stability persists is even more rigid and violent control. It's not rationally possible to accept that over the freedoms democracies offer.

[Back]

I dunno. If China is the powerhouse that it is, who is to say communism does not work?

[Gan]

It didnt work for Russia, what makes China any different?

Communisim is like organized religion. The more educated people get, the less they feel they must depend on someone else to do what they can and do for themselves. Ergo, the less the people will need communisim, much like the challenges that organized religion is facing with a more educated population to continue to hold onto.

[Back]

It didnt work for Russia, what makes China any different?

Communisim is like organized religion. The more educated people get, the less they feel they must depend on someone else to do what they can and do for themselves. Ergo, the less the people will need communisim, much like the challenges that organized religion is facing with a more educated population to continue to hold onto.

You speak out against organized religion yet you support the most religious administration in the history of this nation.

This might confuse some people. Why do you suppose that would be?

[Gan]

When will you ever stop looking at things in black in white?

As I've told you numerous times before. I do not support the religious side of our current administration. HOWEVER, there are things which carry more meaning and weight that I do agree with the Republican party, and thus I do support.

Would someone please teach Backlash to look at the parts of things as well as the whole? Trying to get him to understand this idea is like trying to teach a pig to fly.

[Gan]

I'd be interested to see your response to my comparing communisim to organized religion though...

If you can comment on that without conflicting your monochromatic perspective.

[Back]

In the Anglo Saxon world, Jesus was a communist.

You support the religious side of your party whether you like it or not. That to me is a dangerous hypocrisy.

[Gan]

To you everything is dangerous, hypocracy, or a conspiracy.

What else is new?

Someday you'll learn that in order to accomplish your goals, you'll have to sacrifice some lesser ones in order to gain greater ones. Its really a common happening in politics as well as in the market place.

As I've said before, if one were to abstain support from any political candidate because of a part of them or their politcal party, religion, race, creed, etc. did not agree with your beliefs... then you would have no one to vote for.

Wake up Backlash, reality is calling, yet again.

[Back]

To you everything is dangerous, hypocracy, or a conspiracy.

What else is new?

Someday you'll learn that in order to accomplish your goals, you'll have to sacrifice some lesser ones in order to gain greater ones. Its really a common happening in politics as well as in the market place.

As I've said before, if one were to abstain support from any political candidate because of a part of them or their politcal party, religion, race, creed, etc. did not agree with your beliefs... then you would have no one to vote for.

Wake up Backlash, reality is calling, yet again.

So, basically, you are saying you gave up your ideology, bent over, and recommend everyone else do the same.

Nice.

[Gan]

No matter how you try to justify your way of looking at things, it just keeps coming up short.

I bet you're used to short by now.

Justify all you wish if that makes you feel secure. Just know that millions like me, who can look at shades of grey as well as black and white will be at the polls this November... and I hope that keeps you awake at night.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Back]

And I hope you sleep well betraying your own beliefs. I sleep well knowing I keep to mine.

[Gan]

Whatever dude.

I suppose being the loser year after year justifies your extremism and your existence.

I'm happy pushing forth that which I think is important to my beliefs for this country in which I live. And in doing so I naturally trade off other things that arent as important.

Life is full of tradeoffs, its just sad that you refuse to acknowledge that.

[Back]

Whatever, dude who compromises.

[Gan]

Whatever Chicken Little. Napoleon Jr. or whatever fits your radical mood at any given time.

[Back]

Its funny you call me a radical for just having common sense and independent thought.

You however, are an apologist, a rationalist, and a mass-consumer. Why would anyone be surprised?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

India is a country that's of very comparable size with China, population-wise, and democracy's been going strong for quite some time now.I can move away if my neck isn't broken. Once my neck's broken, I'm pretty much SOL. People tend to get rowdy once the government starts going around murdering people, so the only way the stability persists is even more rigid and violent control. It's not rationally possible to accept that over the freedoms democracies offer.


You have really good points, and personally, I'd love to see Democracy work for everyone.

I just was playing Devil's Advocate and offering a different perspective on the situation.

[Hulkein]

Amazing that our government doesn't get more outraged about the human-rights abuse in China and Sudan and other places.

Angela

Figures you'd blame our government indirectly.

Unbelievable how petty some people are.


I dunno. If China is the powerhouse that it is, who is to say communism does not work?

They are only the powerhouse they are thanks to us.

[StrayRogue]

They are only the powerhouse they are thanks to us.

And this has any relevence...why?

Thats like me saying America is only the powerhouse they are thanks to the UK. It means nothing.

In addition, China were paving the way in engineering, warfare, art, aesthetics and culture thousands of years before natives of your own country stopped calling themselves Running Wolf and began opening casino's.

[StrayRogue]

It didnt work for Russia, what makes China any different?



Communism in Russia is quite different from Communism in China. Thats like grouping all Christians into one category when in fact there are many little cults from COE, to Jehovah's Witnesses etc etc.

Stalinism is very different from market socialism.

[TheEschaton]

China's problems will be solved from within eventually.

The old guard of communisim will give way to younger generations of capitalists and democracy will eventually take hold. Look at the advances that have been made in the name of capitalism in the past decade. Not withstanding Tieneneman Square, which did no favors for the government in the long run.

I don't think you can rely on capitalism-as-democracy, anywhere. Look at Russia - everyone thought that capitalism would make it a great democracy, what you have instead is sparring "warlords", but in this case, the warlords are capitalists trying to cut corners to make a quick buck.

Rapid capitalization of a country tends to either lead to a) chaos and upheaval, or b) an autocratic crackdown of a particularly powerful capitalist who can pull strings and consolidate power.

As for India - democracy works, but isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. The BJP (and I might be saying this in a biased way as an Indian Christian, while the BJP is a rabidly pro-Hindu party), if it had its way, would declare India a Hindu state.

-TheE-

[Gan]

Youre choices are too limiting TheE.

I still think Capitalism will be the catalyst for a regime/government style change in China. It might take a while, but it will be the catalyst that motivates the younger generation to cast communism aside.

And to say that the West (hemisphere) has not been influential to the changes that have already taken place is ignoring the obvious.

[Stanley Burrell]

Long live Mao!

[Back]

Chairman Mao, Chairman Mao Tse Tung, spoke these words of wisdom.
Dare to struggle and dare to win, beat the west from within.

[Hulkein]

And this has any relevence...why?

Thats like me saying America is only the powerhouse they are thanks to the UK. It means nothing.

The relevence is that communism didn't get them where they are, their large population and penchant for cheap labor did.

[Skirmisher]

I dunno. If China is the powerhouse that it is, who is to say communism does not work?

China is not a Communist state.

Autocratic as it can get away with still? Sure.

Communist anymore? No.

[Sean of the Thread]

China is not a Communist state.

Autocratic as it can get away with still? Sure.

Communist anymore? No.

What planet do you live on again?

[Gan]

The relevence is that communism didn't get them where they are, their large population and penchant for cheap labor did.

Not to mention stealing technology that would otherwise be copyrighted in more law abiding countries.

[Skirmisher]

What planet do you live on again?

The planet where the Chinese allow gaps between financial levels of its citizens to dwarf our own.

The planet where China allows huge numbers of its own people to have zero access to health care while allowing some of its private citizens to become among the worlds richest.

The country that has at the same time utilized some of the ecologically dirtiest techniques to allow increased profits while eliminating health care access for so many.

The planet where Chinese companies do business with any company/country in the wordl to make the highest profit instead of taking into account the countries politics.

That planet.

[Hulkein]

She is right, a lot of China's economic policies aren't even communist in nature.

[TheEschaton]

I don't disagree that CHina's economic policies will get rid of communism in China. In fact, as someone mentioned earlier, from an economic standpoint, I wouldn't consider China communist anyways. However, just because you infuse capitalism into a country does not automatically lead to Democracy, is the point I'm trying to make.

-TheE-

[Hulkein]

Who are you responding to?

[Sean of the Thread]

The planet where the Chinese allow gaps between financial levels of its citizens to dwarf our own.

The planet where China allows huge numbers of its own people to have zero access to health care while allowing some of its private citizens to become among the worlds richest.

The country that has at the same time utilized some of the ecologically dirtiest techniques to allow increased profits while eliminating health care access for so many.

The planet where Chinese companies do business with any company/country in the wordl to make the highest profit instead of taking into account the countries politics.

That planet.

Oh so the same planet where the Chinese are commies and extreme human rights violators (as most commies are). Gotcha.

[Skirmisher]

Oh so the same planet where the Chinese are commies and extreme human rights violators (as most commies are). Gotcha.

If your definition of Commies is as simple as being human rights violators then yes, by your definition they are still just a bunch of pinko commies.

If on the other hand you use THIS (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/communism) definition maybe they aren't so much.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

If your definition of Commies is as simple as being human rights violators then yes, by your definition they are still just a bunch of pinko commies.

If on the other hand you use THIS (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/communism) definition maybe they aren't so much.


If human rights violators define what a communist is too, then every country in the world is communist, including our own.

[Sean of the Thread]

If your definition of Commies is as simple as being human rights violators then yes, by your definition they are still just a bunch of pinko commies.

If on the other hand you use THIS (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/communism) definition maybe they aren't so much.


Human rights aside they are fucking commies.

[TheEschaton]

reponding to Ganalon, who said I was being too black-and-white in my assessment of capitalism vs. communism


-TheE-

[Gan]

I don't disagree that CHina's economic policies will get rid of communism in China. In fact, as someone mentioned earlier, from an economic standpoint, I wouldn't consider China communist anyways. However, just because you infuse capitalism into a country does not automatically lead to Democracy, is the point I'm trying to make.

-TheE-

I said it would lead to a regime change away from communisim. I also think that Democracy or a form thereof will be the natural choice of the people therein, considering how much influence the West has had on the younger generations.

And those are just my opinions.

[Back]

Because capitalism and democracy are the end all be all of existence.

[Sean of the Thread]

Because capitalism and democracy are the end all be all of existence.


Nobody said that about capitalism and democracy. What has been established is that communism is complete garbage.

[Skirmisher]

Because capitalism and democracy are the end all be all of existence.

I think capitalism has many obvious negatives but has been the most successful economic model we have found so far and again, so far democracy has shown itself to me to be a pretty good thing.

There are few absolutes in the world Backlash and the US and USSR and China have all employed some combination of various policies to acheive the best results.

China may not follow the communist ideals but they are still one of the most autocratic governments in the world, This case is just another example of that.

Where else could the three gorges dam have been built? Probably no other country in the world would have been able to forcefully move over a million people as they did.

Purely from an engineering standpoint its an amazing feat but the true economic, cultural and environmental costs will not be known for many years.

[Sean of the Thread]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Japgross/china.jpg

[TheEschaton]

ah yes, just because they say it makes it true.

Last I checked, The People's Democratic Republic of the Congo is neither A) of the people, B) Democratic, or C) a republic.

And I highly disagree that we've found capitalism to be the "best" system. The system that makes the people who run it the most money? Yes. "Best" implies moral superiority, which capitalism does not have over communism.

-TheE-

[Skirmisher]

I'm not sure why you are insisting on taking the stance you are when my position would seem to be relatively straightforward and sufficiently explained I would hope , so i will bow out of this particular give and take for now X.

[Gan]

It would be interesting to look at the contributions to mankind each large example of Communism and Capitalism have made:

communisum: examples here, good vodka, rockets?, (need some help here)

capitalism: lightbulb, atomic energy, combustion engine/automobile, computer, microsoft, x-ray, (these are off the top of my head, chime in as you see fit)


So yea, a capitalist society is just the blight on mankind... it does not mean we're morally superior, because we're all still human, ergo we're all still corruptable and can do wrong against our fellow man.

But yea, us capitalists got our shit together, and for the past 100 or so years, its kind of proven that it has been the best alternative to heaven. So until something better (a new and improved idea like Gene Roddenberry's utopian civilization example) comes along. My money's on capitalism (pardon the pun).

For more reading entertainment on how capitalism can push society I suggest reading some of the economic works by Adam Smith and his theory of the invisible hand.

[TheEschaton]

capitalism: lightbulb, atomic energy, combustion engine/automobile, computer, microsoft, x-ray, (these are off the top of my head, chime in as you see fit)



None of those (except maybe Microsoft) are products of capitalism. They're products of a free scientific establishment, which China has and Russia did have under communism. The Russians beat us to space, remember? The light bulb and the x-ray weren't successful because they had free markets to flourish in, they were successful because they revolutionized their particula fields, and, free market or not, they would of been a roaring success.

-TheE-

[Sean of the Thread]

and, free market or not, they would of been a roaring success.

-TheE-

Guess we'll never know.. for the meantime we'll just refer to what did happen.

[Olanan]

Guess we'll never know.. for the meantime we'll just refer to what did happen.

Magical light from no-where would probably be a grand success. :)

[Gan]

None of those (except maybe Microsoft) are products of capitalism. They're products of a free scientific establishment, which China has and Russia did have under communism. The Russians beat us to space, remember? The light bulb and the x-ray weren't successful because they had free markets to flourish in, they were successful because they revolutionized their particula fields, and, free market or not, they would of been a roaring success.

-TheE-

Offering up some proof of your ascertions would go a long way to increasing your credibility.

And yes, I know the Russians beat us to space. Hence my mention of rockets in their column.

My theory still stands, without Capitalism to push people to invent and then to foster their introduction into the general populace as well as encourage improvement, it would not have happend.

To get right down to it, the chinese invented the rocket, in a form, then the Germans improved upon the idea using different fuels.

Try as you might, slamming capitalism just wont fly. And it seems that democracy is the best environment for capitalism to flourish in at this point in time. After all, if it werent for capitalism and Al Gore, we couldnt even have the debate we're having on this illustrious internet of ours.

Also, score another one for the Americans. I forgot to mention Viagra! The list goes on and on.

[Warriorbird]

I don't think China is overwhelmingly Communist these days. They're nationalist...a type of government that George and friends move us closer to constantly.

[Gan]

Well, I'd agree somewhat with Warriorbird if it not were the fact that we have elections coming up this year as well as in 2008.

Unless you're saying that a country ruled by the opinion of the majority* is Nationalist. Then we are guilty as charged.

Thats something that China can not boast about.

*Yes I know Bush did not receive the majority in the 2000 election; however, our constitution says we (USA) must also use the electoral college to regulate who's elected President.

[Sean of the Thread]

I don't think China is overwhelmingly Communist these days. They're nationalist...a type of government that George and friends move us closer to constantly.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=499725&postcount=61

[Hulkein]

Xyelin, we know they're considered communist and they are in a lot of respects, but a lot of their economic policies aren't really communist.

[Krendeli]

Democracy and socialism are forms of politics. Capitialism and communism are forms of economic systems. You can not compare a democratic state to a communist state. It's apples and oranges.

The best mix of systems would be a democratic communism. This is not something that will ever happen in the USA (because there are too many slackers that would abuse the system).

The only situation I could see this evolving from would be a country that was the evolution of a Socialist state that had a communistic system in place.

[TheEschaton]

My theory still stands, without Capitalism to push people to invent and then to foster their introduction into the general populace as well as encourage improvement, it would not have happend.

Like I said, revolutionary inventions aren't fueled by a profit (IE capitalist) motive.

Yeah, sure, without capitalism, we wouldn't have Viagra, or useless consumer products....but the main great leaps forward (pun intended) would of still happened.

-TheE-

[Hulkein]

Eventually, yeah, but capitalism sparks far greater growth in innovative fields.

[Sean of the Thread]

In communist china.. it's not capitalism and yes in soviet russia cock smokes you.