Well, definitely leaning towards a more conservative point of view

[Apotheosis]

Well, it was bound to happen. I am beginning to realize that my viewpoints, etc. on life are becoming increasingly conservative/moderate, vs. liberal/moderate the more more I umm, deal with liberals. (read: socialists)

Any advice?

=D

[StrayRogue]

Live in Europe or Canada.

[Artha]

Churchill called it.

[Gan]

Resistance is futile.

Just consider it another stepping stone in your long journey of life.

[Sean]

So your old and have recently come into money...

[Stanley Burrell]

Well, it was bound to happen. I am beginning to realize that my viewpoints, etc. on life are becoming increasingly conservative/moderate, vs. liberal/moderate the more more I umm, deal with liberals. (read: socialists)

Any advice?

=D

What happened to moderate/moderate?

And what Big Teej' said.

[Bobmuhthol]

Unfortunately, I'm experiencing the same thing. I've always identified myself with les liberals, but I'm noticing a shift to conservative/moderate views.

It sux. :(

[peam]

I'm curious as to if those views are mainly social or fiscal.. or both.

Fiscal leaning, I can understand. Social? You fucking monsters.

[Bobmuhthol]

Fiscal. I'm very, very strongly capitalist.

[Back]

I must be getting younger...

But truth is the line is not so distinct as it seems in today’s climate. I’m not going to point fingers at who I think is trying to draw lines, or who is attempting to divide us based on what they think are the lines, or those who tend to propagate this fictional black/white mentality.

Certainly I have come across as someone who thinks in these terms, but honestly that is not the case. The average person is a little of everything.

Down with categories!

[Warriorbird]

I'm a fiscal conservative. The Republicans are not.

[DeV]

The average person is a little of everything.

True, no matter what they say otherwise.

i.e. Not excessive or extreme in the majority of their political views.

[Apotheosis]

Always have been fiscally conservative. I used to be incredibly socially liberal, I am now moving towards a socially conservative point of view, although still more liberal than most conservatives (did that confuse you enough).

It's not the media that's polluting my mind, it's my day to day experience with people in a variety of these spectrums. Being self employed (re: having the balls and determination to make it happen), I see no reason to move our government closer to "socialism". Government really takes a big chunk of small business revenues through taxation, however that becomes an incentive for business to spend on services/products and keep the money in the economy vs. sitting on a big pile of it.

Additionally, I am taking a huge risk being self employed, and therefore, why should someone who is living a "safe" life be entitled to my earnings? I know part of it goes through taxes, and that's OK. In America's case, if taxation increased to fund social programs, inflation would occur, as businesses increase the pricing to make up the difference.

I understand that "America" has been responsible for screwing over whole races of people, however, why should this generation, and future ones "pay" for mistakes people made in the past, instead of saying "ok, shit happened, let's get over it and move forward.".


/rant

[Apotheosis]

Churchill called it.


LOL. So true.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'm a fiscal conservative. The Republicans are not.

Rofl.

[Atlanteax]

I have a coworker who was a bona-fide free-love hippie when she was younger.

Now with deciding how to handle retirement planning and the company's 401k program... she admits that she has become more conservative as she got older.

[Apotheosis]

Well, I'm beginning to take the mantra of personal responsibility to heart, moreso now than ever. Frankly, I see conservative politics as favoring "personal responsibility". Not that many of the politicians follow that, but the message is relevant.

[Warriorbird]

You don't have a fucking clue, Xyelin, so the snipes don't mean much. It doesn't matter much if your economy is flying if you spend it all.

[Sean of the Thread]

rofl.

[Warriorbird]

Intellectual. You're really showing how you said you wanted to portray yourself. Literate, bright, socially responsible.

[Daniel]

I understand that "America" has been responsible for screwing over whole races of people, however, why should this generation, and future ones "pay" for mistakes people made in the past, instead of saying "ok, shit happened, let's get over it and move forward.".

^^

The reason why is because of the whole "generations of screwing people over" people find themselves in a position where it is not so easy to "move on" as it were.

[Sean of the Thread]

Intellectual. You're really showing how you said you wanted to portray yourself. Literate, bright, socially responsible.

Like I said earlier.. responding to your rhetoric has become beyond tiresome. All you do is blame some republican or the Prez and put a period at the end. when you come down to visit the rest of us on the planet I may be compelled to engage in discussion with you again. But for now.. you're a "ROFL".. joke.

[Wezas]

Becoming senile and alzheimer's both come with age.

[Back]

Becoming senile and alzheimer's both come with age.

Thats what Viagra is for.

[Sean of the Thread]

No sir.. viagra is for a boner.

[Apotheosis]

I understand that "America" has been responsible for screwing over whole races of people, however, why should this generation, and future ones "pay" for mistakes people made in the past, instead of saying "ok, shit happened, let's get over it and move forward.".


^^

The reason why is because of the whole "generations of screwing people over" people find themselves in a position where it is not so easy to "move on" as it were.


I won't disagree with that, and there is plenty of blame and accountability to go around on all sides. With that said, change has to come from people rather than politicians. Granted, I am not an expert at world history, sociology, etc. however, looking at everything I studied in college history (yes, I realize historical bias exists), the way that the world seems to have been working, up to this point, is big fish eats little fish, big fish gets fat and lazy, new fish eats big fish, etc. etc.

I am no longer convinced that societies can peacefully co-exist as long as EGO's get in the way. Ideologism is a two edged sword, it can make things happen, but it also marginalizes others.

That is not to say that those in power are right, or should remain in power, it just means that people should decide what they truly value in life, what they want for themselves and others, and how they can go about it in a socially responsible and ethical manner.

I would like people to cite examples where the needs of the few outweighed the needs of the many, and how the situation turned out where both groups arrived at a mutually agreeable compromise.

Remember, winner-take-all negotiation = lower probability of an outcome.

[Latrinsorm]

Personal responsibility is good. Personal responsibility without the means or opportunities to advance/live doesn't do much. Everyone in America does not have the means nor the opportunities necessary to advance/live. That's why you shouldn't mind paying more taxes than people living the "safe" life, or to people whom you didn't personally wrong. It isn't retribution, it's respect for your fellow humans.

I'd recommend against identifying yourself as "conservative", given that the term has become almost entirely connotational in everyday dialogue.

Final piece of advice: have faith.

[Back]

Final piece of advice: have faith.

Act like the christian people supposedly claim to be?

[edited because I do believe Latrin does act like the Christian he believes in. I meant that SOME people who claim to be christian don’t act by the tenants]

[Apotheosis]

Personal responsibility is good. Personal responsibility without the means or opportunities to advance/live doesn't do much. Everyone in America does not have the means nor the opportunities necessary to advance/live. Final piece of advice: have faith.

Opportunity exists for those that seek.



That's why you shouldn't mind paying more taxes than people living the "safe" life, or to people whom you didn't personally wrong. It isn't retribution, it's respect for your fellow humans.

Fair enough, I do not disagree with that. What I would like to see is more of an effort to bring those people into a way of being self-sufficient, rather than placate/or fill some instant gratification need.

Those in positions of power are responsible to be socially responsible.

I just believe that there are two kinds of people in life, a) people who take it by the balls and run, or b) people who let life take them by the balls.

Shit happens, but it's how you manage it that counts.


I'm sure there's a better analogy somewhere.

[Warriorbird]

Like I said earlier.. responding to your rhetoric has become beyond tiresome. All you do is blame some republican or the Prez and put a period at the end. when you come down to visit the rest of us on the planet I may be compelled to engage in discussion with you again. But for now.. you're a "ROFL".. joke.

Funny. I just blamed you. If you'd take that much time maybe I'd say a bit more. If you'd actually post an opinion I'd say a bit more. While I think Apotheosis is confused, I certainly would've never posted something like I did to him. Maybe it says something about you?

[Warriorbird]

I follow a lot of what you're saying, Apotheosis, I just don't see it in the modern Republican Party.

[Sean of the Thread]

Or any modern party for that matter.

(p.s. the big stinky head started it!)

[Apotheosis]

Hmm, so you two are saying that no political party in America holds my point of view?

[Warriorbird]

Honestly? Yes. The Libertarians or the Reform Party theoretically should, but for the most part they're all too far over the edge.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Fiscal. I'm very, very strongly capitalist.
I'm torn I suppose. There are some things I think should be un-privatized, but I'm afraid it will be at the expense of other things that SHOULDN'T be. Medical is the big one that I feel should be government funded, just because I don't feel like it's right for a drug company or insurance company to decide if your life is worth paying for or not.

Kind of along these lines, I also feel that you should be able to complete x-number of years of service for America (either in the armed forces or some sort of secretary/custodial/records work back home) and get your college education paid for. Because of the prices of colleges, we have a more competitive secondary school system, but a lot of people miss out on being able to afford college because they don't want to be sent to Iraq for their 20,000.

[Daniel]

I won't disagree with that, and there is plenty of blame and accountability to go around on all sides.

^^

You misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not trying to place blame or hold anyone to account for the issues. I'm just making an objective statement of the realities of our society. The concept of personal responsibility usually goes out of the window when person A can work 10x harder than Person B and still not get the same kind of return.

The problem is that alot of people today think the problems of race, and repression in America have been fixed since 1965 and then they try and blame the people who just been playing the cards they have been dealt. You say, its all about finding a way to do something ethically and morally? Well, by whose morals is it that statisticly speaking people from my situation shouldn't be where I am today?

Why should I be looked down upon because maybe I had to do some "morally reprehensible" things to get where I am? Especially considering the history of this country throwing morals to the wind when its best interests are at stake.

[Latrinsorm]

Act like the christian people supposedly claim to be?The teachings of Jesus are a good place to start, sure. The tough part about that is that unless you're a circa 20 AD Israelite, it's really hard to understand what he's actually saying. That means you have to go talk to someone who's got eir anthro-cultural stuff down, it's a big hassle.
What I would like to see is more of an effort to bring those people into a way of being self-sufficient, rather than placate/or fill some instant gratification need.This is the age-old problem of charity vs. justice. Of course we'd rather have justice, but justice is hard to get. If the choices are wait for justice while people starve to death or delay justice some by having people not starve to death, you have to go with delay of justice. You're right in that we're probably too far on the safe (delay of justice) side, but we can't just throw charity out the window.
Shit happens, but it's how you manage it that counts.It's hard to tell people "if you and your children work hard for your entire life and get lucky along the way, your grand-children might not be impoverished" and expect them to buy into that.

[xtc]

Well, I'm beginning to take the mantra of personal responsibility to heart, moreso now than ever. Frankly, I see conservative politics as favoring "personal responsibility". Not that many of the politicians follow that, but the message is relevant.

I too follow the mantra of personal responsibility and am quite conservative unfortunately this administration isn't very conservative. They haven't balanced the budget they have ballooned it. They have launched two costly wars with little justification or result (true conservatives don't like their children dying without reason). They have created massive government agencies that invade our privacy, remember smaller less intrusive government being a core staple of conservative belief. They are trying to pass a guest worker program that rewards illegal aliens rather than deporting them.

[Warriorbird]

The teachings of Jesus are a good place to start, sure. The tough part about that is that unless you're a circa 20 AD Israelite, it's really hard to understand what he's actually saying. That means you have to go talk to someone who's got eir anthro-cultural stuff down, it's a big hassle.

Latrin...calling modern Christianity out of touch. Whew boy!

[Sean of the Thread]

Christianity still touches plenty of boys peckers.