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View Full Version : Hugo Chavez = Not making sense



Apotheosis
05-14-2006, 02:52 PM
I don't get how the Venezuelan's reduction of fuel costs for the needy (towards Europe) connects with "the final days of the north american empire"

Someone explain, please.



http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1774649,00.html




Chavez offers oil to Europe's poor

Venezuelan President promises fuel to the needy and proclaims 'final days of the North American empire' before visit to Britain today

Sunday May 14, 2006
The Observer

Venezuela's president Hugo Chavez arrives in London today with an extraordinary promise to offer cut-rate heating oil for needy families in Europe, modelled on a similar campaign in the US which has been seen partly as a bid to embarrass President George Bush.

Last night Chavez also issued a taunting obituary for the 'American empire' on the eve of a visit where he will be shunned by Downing Street but welcomed by London Mayor Ken Livingststone.

Chavez said in Vienna yesterday that the 'final hours of the North American empire have arrived ... Now we have to say to the empire: "We're not afraid of you. You're a paper tiger."'

Referring to his supply of heating to poor American families last winter, Chavez told a meeting of political supporters: 'I'd like to do the same here in Europe.'

He was addressing an 'alternative summit' held alongside a three-day meeting of leaders from the European Union, Latin America and the Caribbean in the Austrian capital. 'I want to humbly offer support to the poorest people who do not have resources for central heating in winter and make sure that support arrives,' he said.

Though he said that Venezuela has two refineries in Germany and one in Britain, he did not provide further details about how the supply scheme would work. But he said Venezuelan ambassadors in Europe were looking into the matter. 'You Europeans can help us greatly. Your European social networks can make sure the support arrives where it should,' Chavez told the conference.

This past winter, Venezuela delivered cut-rate oil to low-income Americans through Citgo, the Houston-based subsidiary of Venezuela's state-owned oil company.

Chavez appealed to the audience to unite and promote social change. For example, he said, more business should be steered toward smaller companies to the benefit of labourers in poorer regions, and that doing so would cut out intermediaries. 'We have to unite all possible movements, otherwise the world is not going to change,' he said.

Chavez, with a growing regional profile built on a mix of populist rhetoric and his country's oil wealth, has been publicly feuding with Bush, whom he has likened to Adolf Hitler - with Tony Blair dismissed as 'the main ally of Hitler.'

While Downing Street has pointedly emphasised that Chavez's visit to Britain is private, with no official contacts planned, London's mayor yesterday defended his decision to host a luncheon in honour of the Venezuelan leader.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today Programme, Livingstone said that Chavez had been responsible for significant social reforms and called him 'the best news out of Latin America in many years.'

Dismissing human rights groups' concerns about Venezuela's treatment of political opponents, Livingstone said: 'He's won 10 elections for his party in the last decade and he's pushed through a whole programme of social reform.

'Venezuela was like a lot of those old Latin American countries - a small elite of super-rich families who basically stole the national resources. He's now driven a new economic order through, you've got for the first time healthcare for poor people, illiteracy has been eradicated.'

Chavez is scheduled to begin his visit with an address on his social reforms and a meeting with supporters at the Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre in London today. Tomorrow, he will meet left-wing Labour MPs and trade union officials and hold a joint news conference with Livingstone at City Hall.

Tomorrow evening, Chavez is due to give a lecture at Canning House, an institution that works to strengthen commercial and cultural ties between Britain and Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking countries. On Tuesday, the final day of the visit, the Venezuelan leader is due to open a museum and speak at Banqueting House in Whitehall.

Livingstone said that one reason he was keen to welcome Chavez was because of the potential benefit for the capital from a strong financial and economic relationship with Venezuela.

'The reason he [Chavez] wants to come to London is because clearly, as the Latin American economies really begin to emerge from the American shadow and grow, they don't want all their eggs in the Washington basket,' Livingstone contended. 'They're looking for allies in Europe and Asia and it's very much in London's interests that as Venezuela's companies go, they should see London as a natural home every bit as much as Madrid.'

The mood surrounding Chavez's two-day trip contrasts sharply with the warm welcome he received from Blair during an official London visit five years ago.

Relations with the Venezuelan leader have frayed badly as Chavez has drawn steadily closer to Fidel Castro's Cuba and tried to galvanise South American opposition to US policies.

Earlier this year, Blair declared in the Commons that Venezuela 'should abide by the rules of the international community,' adding that it would help further if Cuba became a 'functioning democracy.'

Chavez reacted to the remarks, and denounced Blair as a 'pawn of imperialism.'

The Venezuelan leader then further angered Downing Street by declaring that the Falkland Islands rightly belonged to Argentina. 'Tony Blair, you have no moral right to tell anyone to respect international laws, as you have no respect for them, aligning yourself with Mr Danger [Bush] and trampling on the people of Iraq,' he added. 'Do you think we still live in the times of the British empire?'

Venezuela's embassy in London has played down the reluctance of Blair to take any part in the Chavez visit, issuing a statement last week pointing out that he had already had an official welcome during his 2001 trip to London.

Sean of the Thread
05-14-2006, 06:08 PM
That corrupt asshole is nuts. Funny too.

Not much more needs to be said.. he'll implode sooner or later on his own.

Back
05-14-2006, 07:51 PM
Who knows. I think he sees himself as the “liberator” of SA. The little guy against the giant thing. He’s done enough to capture the loyalty of his people without the anti-US rhetoric so to me its going a little over board. He could do everything he wants to end trade and ties without mouthing off.


That corrupt asshole is nuts. Funny too.

Not much more needs to be said.. he'll implode sooner or later on his own.

Now I’m curious. What is it about the guy you don’t like?

Gan
05-14-2006, 09:59 PM
Some interesting stories about Chavez, albiet some of them questionable as to their credibility. Some of them are also a little dated.

http://www.venezuelatoday.net/gustavo-coronel/hugo-chavez+death-wish.html

http://www.wsws.org/news/1998/dec1998/ven-d17.shtml

Of note in this article...


Washington also congratulated Chavez on his "impressive electoral victory." Having denied him a visa only a few years ago because of his role in the 1992 coup attempt, a White House spokesman expressed confidence in his dedication to the Venezuelan constitution and free market policies, and sent Chavez assurances that a visa would now be granted.
I wonder if this is one of the many reasons why Chavez hates the U.S.

http://www.militaresdemocraticos.com/articulos/en/20021231-01.html

And this site hits what I've said all along about Chavez and his desire to override the existing Venezuelan constitutional 2 six year term limit for presidents.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/americas/14518945.htm


CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez said Saturday that Venezuelan voters should have the chance to decide whether he should govern the country for the next 25 years.
Speaking at a stadium packed with supporters in central Lara state, Chavez said he would hold a referendum to put the question of his remaining in office to Venezuelans if the opposition pulls out of upcoming presidential elections.
"I am going to ask you, all the people, if you agree with Chavez being president until 2031," he said.


This bears repeating:

"I think he's [Chavez] a fucking idiot."

Back
05-14-2006, 10:03 PM
At least Ganalon presents relative arguments. And I have to somewhat side with you on a few things. I don’t think he is an idiot though. I think of him more as someone who has seen oppression long enough to fight back, then possibly get intoxicated with that power.

Warriorbird
05-15-2006, 12:33 AM
He does the same Nationalist bullshit Bush does. The Republicans just can't see through their blinders.

Parkbandit
05-15-2006, 05:59 PM
He does the same Nationalist bullshit Bush does. The Republicans just can't see through their blinders.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

I used to have some respect for you WB in your political opinions. You used to post your arguments and whether I agreed or disagreed, they were usually presented in a somewhat informed manner.

Now they are just stupid little bashes against the current administration.

Original post - "Chavaz is an idiot"
WB - "Yea, well so is BUSH!"

Original post - "Democrats are idiots"
WB - "Yea, well so is BUSH!"

Original post - "The sky is blue"
WB - "Yea, well if Bush stays in office anymore, it will be BLACK!"

Original post - "Today is Monday"
WB - "Yea, I hate Mondays and I HATE BUSH!"

Sean of the Thread
05-15-2006, 06:00 PM
WB has grown bitter since his recent change.

Atlanteax
05-15-2006, 07:35 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

I used to have some respect for you WB in your political opinions. You used to post your arguments and whether I agreed or disagreed, they were usually presented in a somewhat informed manner.

Now they are just stupid little bashes against the current administration.

Original post - "Chavaz is an idiot"
WB - "Yea, well so is BUSH!"

Original post - "Democrats are idiots"
WB - "Yea, well so is BUSH!"

Original post - "The sky is blue"
WB - "Yea, well if Bush stays in office anymore, it will be BLACK!"

Original post - "Today is Monday"
WB - "Yea, I hate Mondays and I HATE BUSH!"

Good stuff!!! :lol:

Drew
05-15-2006, 07:38 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

I used to have some respect for you WB in your political opinions. You used to post your arguments and whether I agreed or disagreed, they were usually presented in a somewhat informed manner.

Now they are just stupid little bashes against the current administration.

Original post - "Chavaz is an idiot"
WB - "Yea, well so is BUSH!"

Original post - "Democrats are idiots"
WB - "Yea, well so is BUSH!"

Original post - "The sky is blue"
WB - "Yea, well if Bush stays in office anymore, it will be BLACK!"

Original post - "Today is Monday"
WB - "Yea, I hate Mondays and I HATE BUSH!"


Park Bandit wins, thread over.

Gan
05-15-2006, 08:09 PM
:clap:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Back
05-15-2006, 08:32 PM
Park Bandit wins, thread over.

:chuckle:

Declaring “the sky is green!” does not make it green like you, grasshoppah!

Back
05-15-2006, 08:47 PM
More Chavez news... CNN front page.

Chavez: Imprison 'genocidal' Bush (http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/05/15/britain.chavez/index.html)


Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has accused George W. Bush of committing genocide and said the U.S. president should be imprisoned by an international criminal court.

The leftist leader made his remarks on Monday at a joint news conference with London Mayor Ken Livingstone after a reporter for the BBC likened some comments of his to Bush's phrase, first delivered shortly after the September 11 terrorist attacks, "You are either with us or against us in the fight against terror."

At that, Chavez erupted in anger about being "compared to the biggest genocide person alive, in the history of humanity, the president of the United States -- killer, genocidal, immoral -- who should be taken to prison by an international court. I don't know to what you are referring when you compare me to President Bush."

He added: "Have I invaded any country? Have Venezuelans invaded anything? Have we bombarded a city? Have we had a coup d'etat? Have we used the CIA to kill a president? Have we protected terrorists in Venezuela? That's Bush!"

Gan
05-15-2006, 08:53 PM
And in response...



WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States is imposing a ban on arms sales to Venezuela because President Hugo Chavez's leftist government is not supporting counterterrorism efforts, State Department officials said Monday.
As a result, U.S. sales and licenses for the export of defense articles and services to Venezuela, including the transfer of defense articles, will not be permitted, said Darla Jordan, a State Department spokeswoman.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/05/15/venezuela.arms.ap/index.html

Not that he wont be able to buy small arms from China or the former USSR and all the available AK-47's out there.

Sean of the Thread
05-15-2006, 08:53 PM
He's been accusing Bush of genocide for quite some time now. Fruit.

Back
05-15-2006, 09:01 PM
And in response...



http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/05/15/venezuela.arms.ap/index.html


Just last month, the State Department used its annual report on international terrorism to accuse Chavez of having an "ideological affinity" with two leftist guerrilla groups operating in neighboring Colombia, the FARC and the National Liberation Army. The United States considers both to be terrorist organizations.

To be honest, how can anyone be certain of any accusation the US makes at this point with our intelligence community as lacking as it is with this particular administration and congress in control? Sorry, its simple logic, not hatred. In fact, its naive NOT to question them at this point.

Call me devil’s advocate on this one if you want to, call me realistic, villainize me for asking questions, asking for hard proof, and doubting anything this administration says, but don’t call me a terrorist sympathizer because I am not.

Sean of the Thread
05-15-2006, 10:13 PM
rofl.

I honestly want to respond but I just won't because I don't want any more OMG YOU HURT MY FWEELINGS u2us from you.

Warriorbird
05-15-2006, 10:59 PM
Y'know...if you hadn't shifted to being a random trolling asshole like Xyelin, maybe I'd still post like that Parkbandit.

Instead...guess what... Bush and Chavez both play on fear and talk random nonsense. Iraq didn't have a single god damn thing to do with 9-11, which you used as some perverse justification for blowing through cash like it was going out of style. It is similar to Chavez blaming all the problems of the world on Bush to snow job his poor illiterate constituents.

Now you can post some snipey little comment. Feel free. Way to "keep your promise."

Sean of the Thread
05-15-2006, 11:00 PM
rofl.

Warriorbird
05-15-2006, 11:02 PM
Once again...way to contribute, fuckhead! Bush is real popular these days I hear.

Sean of the Thread
05-15-2006, 11:06 PM
You're losing touch with reality man. Contribute something worth replying with anything other than a hearty laugh and I'll reply with something that requires slightly more of your subpar intelligence to comphrended and form a rebuttal for.

Until stfu and get some new material. You've surpassed backlash status. Once upon a time you made reasonable arguments... did you slip on a banana peel and crack your peanut?

Warriorbird
05-15-2006, 11:07 PM
Have you ever even MADE an argument? No. You just respond to them. Maybe when you start I'll consider it. You don't back up your viewpoints at all. You've inspired Parkbandit to be similar...which makes him pretty damn lame.

Sean of the Thread
05-15-2006, 11:12 PM
You're on crack.. my viewpoints have been supported x10 compared to your stupid bullshit. If you need to review the 50 or so times you've been pwnt please feel free to use the search feature.

Anyways.. hope you get laid soon because you're a total dumbfuck in this mode. Don't want you looking incredibly stupid for too much longer so I'm willing to chip in $25 for at least a decent lap dance to get you off.

Back
05-15-2006, 11:15 PM
Ban them both for being off-topic and WRONG.

Snapp
05-16-2006, 12:10 AM
Cut it out with the personal insults. Any more will be deleted.

Parkbandit
05-16-2006, 01:48 PM
Once again...way to contribute, fuckhead! Bush is real popular these days I hear.

You continue to prove my point.

Thanks.

Parkbandit
05-16-2006, 01:51 PM
Cut it out with the personal insults. Any more will be deleted.

I took out the part where I said WB is getting to be a bigger hypocrite than Backlash. I also took out the part where WB is bitching about sniping.. yet it's fine for him to constantly do that which he preaches is bad.

CrystalTears
05-16-2006, 03:03 PM
Snapp asked it to stop, please do so and return to the topic please. Thanks.

Back
05-17-2006, 12:16 AM
Venezuela Weighs Selling U.S. Jets to Iran (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001/20060516/1432155715.htm&floc=NW_1-T)

By FABIOLA SANCHEZ


CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - Venezuela's military is considering selling its fleet of U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets to another country, possibly Iran, in response to a U.S. ban on arms sales to President Hugo Chavez's government, an official said Tuesday.

Gen. Alberto Muller, a senior adviser to Chavez, told The Associated Press he had recommended to the defense minister that Venezuela consider selling the 21 jets to another country.

Muller said he thought it was worthwhile to consider ``the feasibility of a negotiation with Iran for the sale of those planes.''

-------------------------------------------------

There is a lot of rhetoric about Iran that sounds strangely familiar to the rhetoric about Iraq before we invaded.

Gan
05-17-2006, 02:06 AM
I'll give you 10 to 1 odds that the jets never land on Iranian soil. I bet somewhere in those multi-million dollar aircraft is a nice little feature that would disable the jet in a most permanent manner. And with US satellite's all over the stratosphere, I bet it would be disabled mid-flight enroute to the middle east.

As to the rhetoric, it wont be the US that attacks Iran. My money's on Israel.

Sean of the Thread
05-17-2006, 07:20 AM
Without the mass amount of maintenance equipment/parts and personnel the jets would be useless anyways.

Apotheosis
05-17-2006, 09:13 AM
And with US satellite's all over the stratosphere, I bet it would be disabled mid-flight enroute to the middle east.


I don't think our military is that clever.

Atlanteax
05-17-2006, 12:09 PM
I don't think our military is that clever.
And with US satellite's all over the stratosphere, I bet it would be disabled mid-flight enroute to the middle east.

Actually, it is.

Why do you think the European Union (nevermind Russia and China) are so fixated on creating a satellite system that rivals the US controlled GPS system.

Currently, NATO hardware and others rely on the GPS system.

Don't you think that the US military will disable the ability for any hostile nation to utilize the GPS system? It would also be rather easy to do.

It'll only inconvience the commercial/civilian users briefly.. national security comes first!

Sean of the Thread
05-17-2006, 12:21 PM
They actually fucked up the GPS on purpose back around 9/11.. Going to my fishing spots on my boat were hundreds of meters off.