Parental Notification Discussion

[Wezas]

The Abortion thread seemed to spark up some (alot) of discussion in the playerscornerchat room yesterday. The two sides (I'm summarizing, I'll try to keep it unbiased):

For Parental Notification:
Knowing that your daughter is having an abortion
Knowing that your daughter is having some kind of operation


Against Parental Notification:
Parents being against the abortion and trying to stop it
Parents that might verbally/emotionally/physically punish their kids if they found out.


I'm sure I'm summarizing it way too much, but I wanted to keep it to just the major points I heard yesterday.

My opinion kind of shocked me, maybe because I've had a kid recently. I'm not totally against Parental Notification. If my 17 year old daughter wants to have an abortion, I'd hope she would feel comfortable enough with her parents to talk with us about it. But I don't think she should be forced to tell us at that age.

However if my 13 year old daughter wants to have an abortion, I think I'd want to know about it so I can be there to support her. Of course, again, I'd hope she would come to me with the fact that she was thinking of doing it, but if she felt embarrassed or didn't want to tell me, I'd like to be aware that there could be complications.

I don't think parents should have any *say* in the matter (though I go back and forth with the younger kids), but I think they should be *notified* of what's going on so that they can (hopefully) be there to support their daughter.

Again, these are my opinions and literally before yesterday I'd given it no thought at all. So I'd appreciate opinions/reasoning instead of flames.

That said, let the flame war commence.

[CrystalTears]

My problem with this whole issue is that minors have to have parental consent for ANY medical procedure or medication prescribed EXCEPT when it comes to abortion/contraception.

I'll be satisfied with receiving just *notification* that my minor child is considering birth control/abortion. Fine, I can't stop her, but damn, I want to know about it, especially if she's 12 years old.

If this child was irresponsible enough to get herself pregnant, what makes me think that she'll be responsible to take the pill or have the guy use a condom before sex? How will I be sure that this won't happen again?

Boil this down to "bad parents" if you'd like. I have yet to hear of a child that didn't do something, anything, against the will of parents at one point or another, no matter how great the parents are. It's a child's nature to be inquisitive or even rebellious as far as wanting to be their own person. However that shouldn't mean that they are responsible enough to decide on something as dramatic and important as abortion to JUST them.

[Tromp]

I agree with you Wezas.

I have a 1.5 year old baby girl who I love and adore as I'm sure all parents love their children.

I will use ever ounce of resource I have to make sure that I develop her with morals, respect for herself, love, and to be a good caring person who contributes to society. That is my responsibility and not the govt. That being said, this will hopefully instill the values necessary for me to forgoe any exposure to this whole abortion issue but the best plans can blow up at any time. If for some reason she does get prego whilst under age then I hope I have given enough of myself as a parent to her in order for my involvement in her decision to be considered.

If no then I have failed as a parent which I alone take responsibility for. I don't expect the govt. to play safety net for my inabilities.

I realize if my daughter has to choose between having an abortion or not will probably one of the most difficult decisions she'll face.

Maybe the parent notification age can be changed from 18 to say 16?

Man this whole thought process is giving me an anxiety attack.

Thanks Wezi!!!!

[Wezas]

Tromp, I think lowering the age would definitely make a difference in my decision.

[Caiylania]

I agree with you guys. Just hope Kiara is never in that boat :(

[CrystalTears]

Tromp, I think lowering the age would definitely make a difference in my decision.

Lowering it to what? 12? Cause anything younger than 17 is gonna make me lose it.

[Miss X]

As a parent, it is your absolute responsibility to show your children how much you love and respect them. You also have to show them that you'll support them in life come what may. If your children do not feel able to discuss something so huge with you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Make sure your children know that you will never judge them, hurt them, only support them through whatever trials they face in life. That way you can be sure when such a huge issue crops up, you'll be their first port of call.

The sad thing is, there is a huge amount of domestic abuse, both physical, sexual and most often emotional abuse that goes on. I can think of a few examples from my own childhood where certain friends of mine would have faced emotional turmoil if their parents had found out they were on birth control.

We should never be forcing girls into telling their parents, can you seriously imagine the consequences for a 15 year old girl who's parents force her into keeping a baby she doesn't want? It would be an absolute abolition of her basic human rights. It would happen all the time.

A case regarding this was recently fought in the UK where the judge stated:
"Any parent, has no right to know unless the child decided otherwise." and he added "Forcing a girl to tell her parents may lead her to make a decision that she later regrets or seek the assistance of an unofficial abortionist"

In the UK we have something called Gillick Competence. This basically stems from a case where a woman named Victoria Gillick went to the high court to argue that her daughter should not have been prescribed contraceptives without her consent. She lost.

It basically states that:

"The parental right to determine whether or not a child below the age of 16 will or will not have medical treatment terminates if and when the child achieves sufficient understanding and intelligence to enable him to understand fully what is proposed."

So this means that if a child under 16 (I understand that in the US it's 18, but our age of consent is 16 here) is judged to understand the situation fully, he or she does not need parental consent to medical treatment. This is exactly how it should be and it works for us here.

[DeV]

I'm for notification at 16 years or younger. 16 being the absolute max in my opinion although deep down I think it should even be 15. I agree with Wezas in that the parents/guardians shouldn't have any say in the matter, but should at least be notified. As much as people want the best for their children they sometimes make mistakes that can affect their future. Parents sometimes make mistakes on the opposite end of the spectrum. Case in point, if you know your child is having sex at 13, why would you NOT get her started on birth control, unless of course religion comes into play. Many times parents don't want to appear as if they are condoning sexual activity... making it much harder in the long run for their child to want to discuss these matters with them. Although those "mistakes" could just as easily be considered a "welcomed surprise" in the end run, it should still be their (child's) decision. They have to live with it the rest of their lives and who is to say the parent will support the decision for or against.

[Tromp]

Lowering it to what? 12? Cause anything younger than 17 is gonna make me lose it.

In Florida you can drive at 16. I would say that is the age I'm remotely comfy with. Hey that is where most girls that age get prego anyhow.

[Wezas]

I also agree that 16 is a good number. 17 is the age of consent in most states, 18 you can go to war.

[CrystalTears]

I'm not even saying that the child should tell the parents. I'd want the doctor/clinic to notify them.

And not that I'm all for parents forcing a child to go through with the pregnancy, but honestly, if the parents are not abusive and were thinking of the well being of their child, and felt that it was for the best that they go through with the responsibility that comes with having unprotected sex, I wouldn't be against that either.

[Warriorbird]

I think that's all fine and good up until you get to the point where you have parents who made their child pregnant...or who will physically harm/curtail the child from their own wishes regarding their body or will inform an abusive boyfriend.

[CrystalTears]

Then that would be an exception to the rule, and the courts can decide on that type of family problem. I'm speaking on general principle, all things normal at the homefront, the parents should know, that's all.

[Miss X]

The problem with it being the exception to the rule? Looking at UK statistics alone:

16% of children experienced serious maltreatment by parents, of whom one third experienced more than one type of maltreatment. (Cawson, 2002, Child Maltreatment in the Family: The Experience of a National Sample of Young People, NSPCC)

It won't be the exception. Legal proceedings would take far too long and the child would suffer during.

[CrystalTears]

Of those 16%, which of those had pregnancy/abortion issues?

[Miss X]

Also a couple more points:

How do we judge things are 'normal' at home? A child could say "My father beats me so please don't tell my parents." Are you seriously willing to take responsibility for what will happen to that child if you then notify her parents? How do you know she isn't lying? In which case the whole notification rule would be a joke anyway. It's too much of a subjective decision to make.

Also, what purpose does notification serve exactly? Your child is about to have an abortion and someone calls you to let you know. You can't stop it or anything, unless you now want parents to have the right to veto medical treatment in those cases? If so, that is a completely different argument.

I can appreciate that you knowing might mean you can provide more support for your child, but if your child is not scared of how you will react, she will tell you in her own time anyway, if and when she needs your support.

[Miss X]

Of those 16%, which of those had pregnancy/abortion issues?


That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was trying to illustrate the fact that there are a HUGE amount of young women who would face some kind of abuse at home if their parents were notified. To prove this, I provided a recent statistic showing the percentage of children abused by their parents. I would say that there is an even higher percentage of children who could face potential abuse post abortion.

[Wezas]

unless you now want parents to have the right to veto medical treatment in those cases? If so, that is a completely different argument.

So far I don't think anyone is saying that just yet, though I'm sure that opinion is held by some.

[Some Rogue]

You can't stop it or anything, unless you now want parents to have the right to veto medical treatment in those cases? If so, that is a completely different argument.


Just throwing this out there, but, that already does happen with other types of procedures. I saw a case where a girl had her arm crushed by a washing machine and the mother couldn't decide whether to let the surgeons go ahead and work on the daughter or not. She finally said yes but she was fully in her rights to say no and had she done so, the girl would have eventually lost her arm.

[Miss X]

Yes, I realise it does happen which is why I said "the right to veto medical treatment in these cases."

As I stated, in the UK we have what is called Gillick Competence, which applies to all medical treatment. If a child is deemed competent to understand the implications of medical treatment, then they are the ones who consent to said treatment.

Now, I am sure you can appreciate that there is a huge difference in terms if implications at home between surgery to repair a limb and minor surgery to abort a pregnancy. I'm all for parents being notified if their child is about to undergo amputation of a limb, or removal of appendix etc..

The point I was making, was simply that we have to understand the possible consequences for young people who are forced to tell their parents about their contraceptive use, abortions etc.

[CrystalTears]

How about the fact that I would like to know what is going on, because if heaven forbid, a complication later on arises from the contraceptive use/abortion, it's something that now "omg mommy help me" with something I knew nothing about?

Is that all still her responsibility to seek hospitalization and treatment and pay for it on her own since this was her decision in the first place?

[Warriorbird]

If she doesn't want you to know...you probably don't give a damn. You'd probably try to talk her out of it.

[Jolena]

I don't necessarily agree with that Warriorbird. When I was sixteen, my mother saw that I was having a serious relationship with a boy that she thought might turn sexual. Girls my age in my school were getting pregnant and she was concerned that I would feel peer pressure and do something that might get me either A) infected with a sexually transmitted disease or B) end up pregnant and without a future to look forward to aside from that child. It just so happened, I had menstrual cycle issues and so she took me to the doctor to have a checkup and had me put on birth control. I found out 2 years later (at 18), that she did it not only for that reason, but also to give me some security against the pregnancy part. She had taught me all she could about protecting myself against STD's and so that part was up to me of course. She just hoped thatI would be responsible enough to apply those things to my sexual life and be safe.

I never once told my mother that I had sex at the age of 17. (I had graduated at 17 and the summer before starting college is when this occured) Technically I was still a minor. I didn't tell my parents because I was afraid of the disappointment they would have in me for jeapordizing my future in that manner. It had nothing at all to do with them abusing me, or thinking that she would cast me out of my house. My mother loved me a great deal and was my best friend for the most part. I had always felt I could talk to her. But disappointment from someone you love that much is a big deal. Especially from a child to a parent. The point is, saying that if your child doesn't want to tell you, then you probably don't give a damn, is just not true. If I had needed to get an abortion, the same thing would have applied. My mother would not have tried to talk me out of it, she thinks that it is my own choice and my own life. She would have expressed her disappointment in my actions that lead up to this point and supported me as best she could. However, when dealing with such volatile and sensitive emotions as come with abortion, I can't say I blame a child who would not wish to tell their parents for fear of disappointment, anger or whatever. The anger and disappointment stems not from a lack of caring, but from a feeling of sadness and loss for what that child is giving up in either case. (sex or abortion).

[DeV]

Is that all still her responsibility to seek hospitalization and treatment and pay for it on her own since this was her decision in the first place?Most people against abortion say it is a personal responsibility as well as a moral issue. Most of the women having abortions are between the ages of 20-25, yet still a large portion are young teens getting pregnant and using abortion as a primary means of birth control. Why is this happening? Why aren't parents putting their daughters on birth control? Discussing safer sex methods with their sons? What if their religion conflits with teaching the use of contraceptives? What if the parents just don't give a damn either way?

Let's consider this young teen. She either has complete responsibility beginning, during, and after the process of having sex, becoming pregnant, and deciding whether to keep or abort, or the parents take full responsibility upon themselves and relieve them of it completely. Who then becomes responsible for raising that child until adulthood? The parents or the teen? Which is it, because we (society in general) can't have it both ways. What if the parents want the abortion and the teenager doesn't? Who decides then?

I do agree with you in that parents should be notified. I know I would want to be. But let's say she doesn't have an abortion and has the baby instead. Is the baby no longer that teenagers responsibility and only the parents or is that baby still the sole responsbility of the teenager? In the real world, the primary responsibility lies with the young mother.

[Sean of the Thread]

All you people having sex before marriage are SLUTS.

Also if you insist on having pre marital sex please watch out for PRE CUM.

[Tromp]

All you people having sex before marriage are SLUTS.

Also if you insist on having pre marital sex please watch out for PRE CUM.

Yep that about ends this thread with that comment.

and you mean watch out that imply not slipping and falling?

[Caiylania]

Older girls I understand, but if a 11-12-13 year old walks in wanting an abortion... the doctors should be worried. Now the funny thing is I think at that age they should have one, their bodies would have it hard. But WHY are girls that age getting pregnant? abuse? being taken advantage of by older boys? rape?? There is something wrong and parents should be brought in, but have no say in the procedure itself.