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View Full Version : Warriorbird, the FBI says "sorry"



Atlanteax
10-03-2005, 12:48 PM
I think the FBI just apologized to you Warriorbird... probably meant to eavedrop on some other "depraved sinful left-wing unpatriotic commie liberal" :D

.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/30/wiretap.errors.ap/index.html

Sorry, wrong wiretap
FBI admits to mistakes in Internet, phone intercepts

Friday, September 30, 2005; Posted: 11:11 p.m. EDT (03:11 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The FBI says it sometimes gets the wrong number when it intercepts conversations in terrorism investigations, an admission critics say underscores a need to revise wiretap provisions in the Patriot Act.

The FBI would not say how often these mistakes happen. And, though any incriminating evidence mistakenly collected is not legally admissible in a criminal case, there is no way of knowing whether it is used to begin an investigation.

Parts of the Patriot Act, including a section on "roving wiretaps," expire in December. Such wiretaps allow the FBI to get permission from a secret federal court to listen in on any phone line or monitor any Internet account that a terrorism suspect may be using, regardless of whether others who are not suspects also regularly use it.

The bureau's acknowledgment that it makes mistakes in some wiretaps -- although not specifically roving wiretaps -- came in a recent Justice Department inspector general's report on the FBI's backlog of intercepted but unreviewed foreign-language conversations.

The 38,514 untranslated hours included an undetermined number from what the FBI called "collections of materials from the wrong sources due to technical problems."

Spokesman Ed Cogswell said that language describes instances in which the tap was placed on a telephone number other than the one authorized by a court.

"That's mainly an instance in which the telephone company hooked us up to the wrong number or a clerical error here gives us the wrong number," Cogswell said.

He had no estimate of how often that happens, but Cogswell said that when it does the FBI is required to inform the secret court that approved the intercept.

The FBI could not say Friday whether people are notified that their conversations were mistakenly intercepted or whether wrongly tapped telephone numbers were deleted from bureau records.

Privacy activists said the FBI's explanation of the mistaken wiretaps was unacceptably vague, and that in an era of cell phones and computers it is easier than ever for the government to access communications from innocent third parties.

"What do you mean you are intercepting the wrong subject? How often does it occur? How long does it go on for?" said James Dempsey, executive director of the Center for Democracy and Technology.

David Sobel, general counsel of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, said technological advances have made it harder, not easier, to "conduct wiretapping in a surgical way" because digital communications often carry many conversations. "It's not like the old days when there was one dedicated line between me and you," Sobel said.

'People ought to be concerned'
The FBI has acknowledged errors in the past. An FBI memo from 2000, made public two years later, described similar problems in the use of warrants issued by a court that operates in secret under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. In 2002, an FBI official said the bureau averaged 10 mistakes a year in such cases.

These warrants are among the most powerful tools in the U.S. anti-terrorism arsenal, permitting secret searches and wiretaps for up to one year without ever notifying the target of the investigation.

The court approved 1,754 such warrants in 2004.

The Patriot Act, passed 45 days after the September 11 attacks, gave the government sweeping powers in terrorism investigations, including allowing the use of roving wiretaps. The authority also applies to espionage and other foreign intelligence cases.

The FBI is not supposed to use material it collects either by mistake or from people who happen to use phones that are tapped legitimately, but that requirement doesn't satisfy some lawmakers.

"They have recorded the information, but they're saying, 'Trust us, we won't listen to what we recorded,' " said Rep. Bobby Scott, D-Virginia. "People ought to be concerned."

Versions of the Patriot Act renewal that passed the House and Senate during the summer both contain the roving wiretap. It would expire in 10 years under the House-passed bill and four years in the Senate version. Congressional negotiators are expected to hammer out final details of the legislation starting in late October.

The Justice Department fought congressional efforts to require investigators to determine that the target of surveillance actually was using the tapped phone or computer before they listened in. Some lawmakers said such a requirement would reduce the chance that other conversations would be intercepted.

Administration officials argued that safeguards in the law already require the government to discard those conversations. "Such a restriction would make it harder to use multipoint wiretaps in terrorism and espionage investigations than in drug trafficking and other ordinary criminal investigations," assistant Attorney General William Moschella wrote Scott.

Warriorbird
10-03-2005, 12:52 PM
I've heard the clicks before.

;)

Back
10-03-2005, 01:14 PM
I know I’ve been tapped before.

Back when I left LA for another location, I was having a phone conversation with a buddy of mine down there. It was nothing more than us shooting the shit, when all of a sudden, out of nowhere a voice said “I don’t know but I’ve been told, Eskimo pussy is mighty cold.” He verified that he heard it too and said its a phrase commonly used in the military.

Anyway, nothing ever came of it because we weren’t criminals.

Parkbandit
10-03-2005, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Backlash
I know I’ve been tapped before.



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

That doesn't surprise me, coming from you Backlash.

Snapp
10-03-2005, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Backlash
when all of a sudden, out of nowhere a voice said “I don’t know but I’ve been told, Eskimo pussy is mighty cold.”
:wtf:

Trinitis
10-03-2005, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Backlash
I know I’ve been tapped before.

Back when I left LA for another location, I was having a phone conversation with a buddy of mine down there. It was nothing more than us shooting the shit, when all of a sudden, out of nowhere a voice said “I don’t know but I’ve been told, Eskimo pussy is mighty cold.” He verified that he heard it too and said its a phrase commonly used in the military.

Anyway, nothing ever came of it because we weren’t criminals.

Full Metal Jacket anyone? :lol:

Himmy
10-03-2005, 01:28 PM
I can only imagine what the police have to say about the conversations my friends and I have. I know at least two of my best friend's phones are tapped, and I'm fairly certain mine is as well. Considering that the two people I'm talking about are well-known suppliers of illegitimate narcotics and each have no less than 10 warrants for their arrest... I think I can safely make this assertion.

We say the most nonsensical depraved shit to each other, and I only wish I could be there with the police as they try to figure out what "Yeah, let's goto the petting zoo. I got some peanut butter, and I really want to fuck a sheep" means.

Warriorbird
10-03-2005, 01:34 PM
Full Metal Jacket anyone?

I recognized the quote. It's a quality film if you haven't seen it in a while, Backlash. I just re read the Short Timers a bit back.

Back
10-03-2005, 01:39 PM
Oh I’m a huge Kubrik fan, just didn’t make the reference, which I sure wasn’t anything to do with Kubrik, his movies, or that movie in particular.

It sounds like Himmy has had a tapping experience. Anyone else?

4a6c1
10-03-2005, 01:39 PM
hmmm

Janarth
10-03-2005, 01:51 PM
Why would they be tapping your phone when they have 10 warrants for your arrest?

Himmy
10-03-2005, 02:00 PM
The warrants those people have are for petty crimes. Failure to appears, motion to revokes and whatnot. I'm sure the police want to catch them with a pound of cocaine rather than for a no-insurance ticket.

Himmy
10-03-2005, 02:02 PM
Anyhow, there really is no good place or time to discuss that sort of thing. So, doubt me or not. I just thought I'd share.

xtc
10-03-2005, 02:34 PM
10 years seems a long time to give the FBI carte blanche on phone taps.

This apology makes a convenient excuse for the FBI. They can get caught with phone tap records on someone they have no warrant to tap and they can say "Hey it was a technical error, we released an apology and press release in Oct '05 about it".

4a6c1
10-03-2005, 02:36 PM
As conspiracy theorish as it is, I agree with xtc. Not gut at all. :no:

10-03-2005, 03:43 PM
Okay..

Am I the only one actually worried about this sort of thing?

- Arkans

Back
10-03-2005, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by Arkans
Okay..

Am I the only one actually worried about this sort of thing?

- Arkans

Why are you worried?

Warriorbird
10-03-2005, 03:49 PM
I doubt you're the only one worried, Arkans, though about the only thing the FBI could get me for is expressing admiration for the upcoming release of the V for Vendetta movie.

:chuckles:

10-03-2005, 03:49 PM
1. I have issues with authority. Just am that way.

2. I <3 my privacy... a lot.

3. Frankly, some of my friends became unsavory characters and I'd rather them not get nailed on something due to an "FBI slip up"

4. I do not want anyone from the government listening in just to "check" and then apologize it was a "mistake"

Gah.. It just doesn't sound right.

- Arkans

xtc
10-03-2005, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Arkans
Okay..

Am I the only one actually worried about this sort of thing?

- Arkans

Why are you worried?

Arkans launders money for the Gay Polish Metrosexual Front.

[Edited on 10-3-2005 by xtc]

Parkbandit
10-03-2005, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Arkans
Okay..

Am I the only one actually worried about this sort of thing?

- Arkans

I am.. which is why I have chosen to make some of these:

10-03-2005, 03:54 PM
:lol: @ u both

- Arkans

Jorddyn
10-03-2005, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Arkans
Am I the only one actually worried about this sort of thing?


Not by a long shot.

Now I'm going to have to take all of the nukes out of my basement, the pot plants off the roof, and the slave-run meth factory out of the garage.

Darnit.

Jorddyn

P.S. In case it wasn't obvious, only the first sentence was true.

Slider
10-04-2005, 07:56 AM
Hate to break it to you all...but this is really nothing new. Hell, way back in 87or 88 No Such Agency (The NSA) admitted that they "routinely" installed wiretaps on people who where flagged for using certain terms in internet chat rooms and such. For instance, if you typed in "IRA", even if you where speaking about a bank, you where flagged in their computers, and they would instal a tap on your phone.

Now, mind you, this was with no warrent, and no authority by the NSA to even operate inside the borders of the U.S.

How did they get around it? Simple...see, they are required under their charter to seek a warrent for such a tap, but they only have to do it AFTER they remove it. So they just never remove it...and never need a warrent.

NSA is a pretty crooked place. They aren't even required to give any information, about any "ongoing" investigation that they may, or may not be conducting to ANYONE. Not the Congress, not the Feebs, not the freakin' President himself can force them to give up any information about what they are doing. And that my freinds, is in the Charter that established them as an Federal intelligence agency.

These guys are the MIB's for real and true.

Tsa`ah
10-04-2005, 10:24 AM
I've been tapped before, though I'm assuming it was by the ATF, and not the FBI.

Seems they're very paranoid about people buying hydroponic supplies and fertilizer.

Shortly after the Oklahoma City bombing my dad started construction on a green house for my mom. The siblings and I chipped in and got the everything needed for hydroponics. I rented a U-haul to cut down on delivery costs and had made about 5 trips in a midsized U-haul (anywhere from Springfield and Chicago to the family farm) ... about 400 bucks worth of diesel fuel, fertilizer, pvc piping, pumps, glass, steel framing .... I guess everything you need to blow something up or grow lots of pot.

But ya, the farm was tapped, my office was tapped, cell phone, same with my siblings. Constant clicking, dropped calls in good service areas, strange tones, "ghost" voices, and yes ... choppers.

It makes a great story, but at the same time it causes a great deal of concern.

ElanthianSiren
10-04-2005, 11:50 AM
I've never been tapped, as far as I know. The principle of this concerns me, though I doubt it will ever intrude in my life (I hate the phone as well, so that's always a plus). Hopefully, it will be enough to get some of the more invasive points of the patriot act removed.

If not, the likes of the late great J. E. Hoover are probably too busy tapping 1-900 lines and stealing womens' panties to do much real damage.

-M

Skirmisher
10-04-2005, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
If not, the likes of the late great J. E. Hoover are probably too busy tapping 1-900 lines and stealing womens' panties to do much real damage.

-M
Wezas will be crushed to learn someone else thought of those things first.

ElanthianSiren
10-04-2005, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
If not, the likes of the late great J. E. Hoover are probably too busy tapping 1-900 lines and stealing womens' panties to do much real damage.

-M
Wezas will be crushed to learn someone else thought of those things first.

Will I then have made the Baby Wezas cry, or would I have to cut off his son's foot or something?

-M

Skirmisher
10-04-2005, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Will I then have made the Baby Wezas cry, or would I have to cut off his son's foot or something?

-M
Yer kinda scary.
:wow: