Bush Takes Blame. Your Reaction?

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Bush Takes Responsibility for Blunders (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050913/ap_on_go_ot/katrina_washington;_ylt=ArArUBmSJxyPuOcV8jhz6W6tOr gF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-)


"Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government," Bush said at a joint White House news conference with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani.

"And to the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility. I want to know what went right and what went wrong," said Bush

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Cross posting the above from the Get off his Back thread because it deserves some attention of its own. This is not a thread of I told you so, nor is it some sort of victory dance of the defeated democrats. It is a genuine interest in people’s reactions to our president who has recently “taken responsibility” for the federal government’s role in the mishandling of the Katrina rescue response.

Do you think he is just saying that to get votes for his party next election since he will not be relected anyway and can look as bad as he wants? Do you think he really saw a problem with the way FEMA handled things and genuinely wants to change things to make them right?

For me, it was the first time in 5 years I viewed the man as a real leader. He is finally taking on some accountability!

The woefully inadequate response to this national disaster is horrific on many levels. Mainly, 5 years after 9/11 where there was no warning, we get caught with our shorts down KNOWING this one was going to come.

This storm has also brought into light once again how good our country is at marginalizing the poor. That while the cowboys in the White House want us to care so much about how brutal Iraqis were treated enough to go blow up “collateral damage” just to save them, here in our own country people are trapped into poverty to such an extent that even if they knew a nuclear bomb were going to go off they couldn’t aford to get away! This is that supposed moral high ground they talk about. This is that laughable culture of life exposed for what it is.

Its disgraceful where the leadership of this country have taken us over the last 5 years. I know there are things that have been happening here for generations that still need to be resolved and I wait for that day when they are.

Stepping up and saying something went wrong and that you are accountable, whether you are or not, and that you resolve to make things better is a step in the right direction for real leadership in this country.

[Parkbandit]

Where were you after 9-11-01? I think my opinion of him changed on the day after the attacks.. and especially when he gave his speech. Before I was just ok with him.. after that, I became a big supporter.

If you can get by the bullshit politics for once and really look at him objectively.. I think you will see a man that is really trying to make this country a safer, better place.

[Detri]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Where were you after 9-11-01? I think my opinion of him changed on the day after the attacks.. and especially when he gave his speech. Before I was just ok with him.. after that, I became a big supporter.

If you can get by the bullshit politics for once and really look at him objectively.. I think you will see a man that is really trying to make this country a safer, better place.

OOoo, better brace yourself for that reply even though I agree. :P

[CrystalTears]

I'm thankful that he came up to the plate and accepted responsibility for the federal level of help that was slow in response and things that went wrong in that aspect. I think it he did both because he's concerned about the outcome of this storm, as well as trying to save face since his ratings are so bad.

However I hope this doesn't settle anything. I'm waiting for the LA mayor and governor's apology for not having a good evacuation plan. I don't want anyone to lose sight of their own screwups just because Bush has taken responsibility on his end.

[Drew]

The amount that falls on Bush's lap as compared to the LA officials is very little. It seems that as soon as the storm hit the LA politicians were immediately out to turn this into a political gain for them and I'm glad that Bush, at least, has attempted to side-step that with this statement.

[Hulkein]

Well, considering I have believed that there was failure at all levels, the federal level included, it's good that he has admitted that.

[Keller]

We'll be voting similar ballots for the foreseeable future but right now I think you're nuts. The President is admitting responsibility to end the bullshit political chicken-fight. In essence he's hoping off Rove's shoulders to save the drowning kid at the end of the pool.

Whose at fault for the kid drowning at the end of the pool? At this point he's saying, "Blame me. Just shut the fuck up already." I agree with him.

[Jayvn]

I commend him on that... but it's still a day late, dollar short... :: shrug:: His descisions don't directly affect me so much anymore.

[Jayvn]

effect? I never get the two right.. where you at alex?

[Gan]

Its as any leader should do. He is the figure head and naturally will receive blame for anything that befalls the US, whether it be the economy, national security, or natural disasters. Therefore it is again only natural for him to accept responsibility and accept blame.

In the eyes of those who do not support Bush it would seem that its too late or veiled by other meanings. In the eyes of Bush supporters its the man-up thing to do.

I think its the man up thing to do.

[Trinitis]

here in our own country people are trapped into poverty to such an extent that even if they knew a nuclear bomb were going to go off they couldn’t aford to get away!

To be honest..I still feel this is bullshit. If someone wanted to leave, they would have found a way. There is no such thing as being too poor to get away. They had days warning, not hours. Pack a backpack, grab the kids, and start hoofin it.

Will it be hard? Yes. Would I want to do it? No way. Would I do it to save my kids and my families life? You damn right. I'd drag my kids kicking and screaming down the street if I had too.

[Edited on 9-14-2005 by Adredrin]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Keller
The President is admitting responsibility to end the bullshit political chicken-fight. In essence he's hoping off Rove's shoulders to save the drowning kid at the end of the pool.

Whose at fault for the kid drowning at the end of the pool? At this point he's saying, "Blame me. Just shut the fuck up already." I agree with him. I agree with that.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Where were you after 9-11-01? I think my opinion of him changed on the day after the attacks.. and especially when he gave his speech. Before I was just ok with him.. after that, I became a big supporter.

If you can get by the bullshit politics for once and really look at him objectively.. I think you will see a man that is really trying to make this country a safer, better place.

lol I didn't realise you were such a comedian.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by Adredrin

here in our own country people are trapped into poverty to such an extent that even if they knew a nuclear bomb were going to go off they couldn’t aford to get away!

To be honest..I still feel this is bullshit. If someone wanted to leave, they would have found a way. There is no such thing as being too poor to get away. They had days warning, not hours. Pack a backpack, grab the kids, and start hoofin it.

Will it be hard? Yes. Would I want to do it? No way. Would I do it to save my kids and my families life? You damn right. I'd drag my kids kicking and screaming down the street if I had too.

[Edited on 9-14-2005 by Adredrin]


I'm sick of people saying this as well. I understand there were many that could not leave due to issues other than poverty but I really believe there were many who thought, "Nah, I'll be fine this stuff does not happen to me. Why walk all that way and actually try and get out when nothing extreme will happen and I'll have to turn around and walk back."

I do think it is sad that we have so much poverty and I also think part of it is the Governments fault but I am also tired of people not realizing that they could be in another country in far worse conditions.

[Chaddy]

Bush taking responsibility for the federal governments wrongdoings is a joke. I hate Bush and all but he doesn't make any decisions on his own so the amount of time they took to react wasn't him and apologizing or taking responsibility wasn't his idea either.

[CrystalTears]

From what I heard on the news this morning from someone in the Homeland Security in Baton Rouge, he said that there were people who drove to the Superdome. That drives me bonkers. If they had cars, they had the means to get out of the city, and certainly could have taken a person or two with them.

Course I also heard him say that if they were going to use the buses it was only to drive them to the Superdome. When asked about driving them out of the city, the guy paused said no, it was never intended to leave the city, just to the Superdome, even though he also mentioned that the dome was never meant to be a shelter, just an emergency evacuation area. What great planning! :rolleyes:

[ElanthianSiren]

It's politics as usual, as Ganalon eluded. I am past the point of caring what Bush says or does. I'll vote my opiniono on various performances in this drama with my vote. The end.

-M

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
However I hope this doesn't settle anything. I'm waiting for the LA mayor and governor's apology for not having a good evacuation plan. I don't want anyone to lose sight of their own screwups just because Bush has taken responsibility on his end.

Actually, New Orleans and LA have a very detailed evacuation plan. The powers that be there just choose not to follow it.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Where were you after 9-11-01? I think my opinion of him changed on the day after the attacks.. and especially when he gave his speech. Before I was just ok with him.. after that, I became a big supporter.

If you can get by the bullshit politics for once and really look at him objectively.. I think you will see a man that is really trying to make this country a safer, better place.

lol I didn't realise you were such a comedian.

First of all.. I'm probably the funniest person you "know"... but I was being very serious for once.

[Doyle Hargraves]

I do think it is sad that we have so much poverty and I also think part of it is the Governments fault

How is it even partially the government's fault? Some douche decides to collect welfare instead of going out and getting a JOB and then spends it all on cheap beer and crack is the government's fault?

The only people that should be allowed to collect welfare are handicapped/crippled people that are physically unable to work to support themselves. The rest can starve to death if they're too lazy to get off their ass and feed themselves.

And those single moms that have 12 kids for 12 different guys within 10 years...the government should take their kids away and place them in homes with families that won't raise them to be future welfare rejects. Because their mom is a crackwhore that's too dumb to use a rubber, that's the government's fault too? No, but for some reason they think the government owes them something anyway, and unfortunately the government buys into this bullshit.

I was watching The People's Court a while back and some guy on there was getting monthly checks from the government When the judge asked why his answer was..."for DEPRESSION." Give me a fucking break. Get off your lazy ass and get a job.

As long as the government continues to give handouts to these people, our country will steadily turn to shit more and more.

Being poor is one thing. Abusing the government's welfare system because you're a lazy crackwhore slut is another.

[Edited on 9-14-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[ElanthianSiren]

Not everyone on government assistance is scamming the government. For instance, I receive some assistance because I cannot get affordable medical coverage. Granted, it's very inadequate and doesn't pay for 1/10th of the cost of having the disease that I do, but it's better than nothing.

I went to college with a lot of moms who received government assistance because they were single moms in school, trying to make bills with babies and jobs, while bettering themselves.

I agree with the idea that those abusing the system to make themselves revolving door cases should be forced to improve their standing or lose the handout, but first we would need a system to determine exactly who is being "lazy" and abusing the system vs. who really needs the system.

Also, in an area as socioeconomically depressed as the south, exactly where do you think these people should be employed? I agree they deserve to have jobs, but with the unemployment rate holding fairly steady nice and high, I don't think saying "I expect this!" is going to fix that.

-M

[Sean of the Thread]

The shit that pisses me off is watching people with foodstamps buy fucking lobsters and rib eye steaks. I swear this one lady bought like 20 lbs of crab legs on her FS.. I was like WTF!!

[Leetahkin]

I think there's a hidden agenda behind his apology.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Not everyone on government assistance is scamming the government. For instance, I receive some assistance because I cannot get affordable medical coverage. Granted, it's very inadequate and doesn't pay for 1/10th of the cost of having the disease that I do, but it's better than nothing.

I went to college with a lot of moms who received government assistance because they were single moms in school, trying to make bills with babies and jobs, while bettering themselves.

I agree with the idea that those abusing the system to make themselves revolving door cases should be forced to improve their standing or lose the handout, but first we would need a system to determine exactly who is being "lazy" and abusing the system vs. who really needs the system.

Also, in an area as socioeconomically depressed as the south, exactly where do you think these people should be employed? I agree they deserve to have jobs, but with the unemployment rate holding fairly steady nice and high, I don't think saying "I expect this!" is going to fix that.

-M

Someone receiving assistance while they're in the process of bettering their lives like the people you mentioned are ok too, because they're making an effort to be self-supportive.

I'm referring mainly to the ghetto/trailer park trash people that aren't doing anything with their lives except being a waste, and will continue to do so because the government pays them to be that way, and in a few years their kids will be doing the same because that's how they were raised.

Why would they want to change the fact that they're a waste of life when they're getting paid for it?

[xtc]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
with the unemployment rate holding fairly steady nice and high, I don't think saying "I expect this!" is going to fix that.

-M

As of July 2005 the unemployment rate in Louisiana was 5.6%. This is not high.

http://stats.bls.gov/eag/eag.la.htm

I am sure since Katrina though it is very much higher.

[Edited on 9-14-2005 by xtc]

[CrystalTears]

Reminds me of the conversation that the guys had in "Office Space". Just funny, probably not very relevant.

Peter: What would you do if you had a million dollars?
Lawrence: I'll tell you what I'd do, man, two chicks at the same time, man.
Peter: That's it? If you had a million dollars, you'd do two chicks at the same time?
Lawrence: Damn straight. I always wanted to do that, man. And I think if I had a million dollars I could hook that up, cause chicks dig a dude with money.
Peter: Well, not all chicks.
Lawrence: Well the kind of chicks that'd double up on a dude like me do.
Peter: Good point.
Lawrence: Well what about you now? what would you do?
Peter: Besides two chicks at the same time?
Lawrence: Well yeah.
Peter: Nothing.
Lawrence: Nothing, huh?
Peter: I'd relax, I would sit on my ass all day, I would do nothing.
Lawrence: Well you don't need a million dollars to do nothing, man. Just take a look at my cousin, he's broke, don't do shit.

As far as Bush having an agenda for apologizing?

No shit, Sherlock!

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Keller
"Blame me. Just shut the fuck up already."If Bush would come out and say this (verbatim), I would be about the happiest camper ever.
Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
When the judge asked why his answer was..."for DEPRESSION." Give me a fucking break.Though this is tangential, (real) depression can really, really fuck someone up, just like (real) heat stroke. Just because some people use a phony version as a pass doesn't mean the real deal isn't debilitating.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Depression is also treatable (though perhaps with 8 trillion side effects that turn you into a happy pile of impotent sludge with chronic diarrhea and vomiting at the same time with a 99% risk of a heart attack).

Plus the guy didn't seem too depressed anyway.

[Edited on 9-14-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[CrystalTears]

You can work through depression. My fiance has it, his mother has it, his uncle has it, his father has it... they are all working, productive adults in society. You just have to be motivated enough to not let it get to you. Sure it's hard, but to say it can't be done just means that they're not trying enough.

And my fiance spent a good chunk of his life between homes and not having much as far as food and clothing, but he did it. I'm sure he will say it totally sucked and made his depression harder to deal with, but being a drag on society made him feel worse.

There's a way out of any horrible scenario. Nothing is impossible. If you believe it to be impossible, well, you're allowing yourself to fail before you even try. Those are the ones who are living off welfare who don't need to be. Even if they are in a place where they can't get a job, you go to where there is. Is it easy? No, but at least try.

[xtc]

From my understanding there are levels of clinical depression ranging from mildly affecting your life to completely debilitating. But don’t expect any sympathy from Judge Judy lol.

[TheRoseLady]

Isn't this rant about depression/welfare off topic?

I'm not trying to be anal here, but the topic is Bush.

[Doyle Hargraves]

It's Teeoncy's fault.


but the topic is Bush.

Right. Back on topic...

http://www.geolit.org/rushranch/RR_images/Coyote%20Bush1.jpg


[Edited on 9-14-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
It's Teeoncy's fault.


but the topic is Bush.

Right. Back on topic...


[Edited on 9-14-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

:lol:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
You can work through depression. My fiance has it, his mother has it, his uncle has it, his father has it... they are all working, productive adults in society. You just have to be motivated enough to not let it get to you.This is not correct and is analogous to saying that because you can run with a bruised ankle anyone can run with a broken ankle.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by CrystalTears
You can work through depression. My fiance has it, his mother has it, his uncle has it, his father has it... they are all working, productive adults in society. You just have to be motivated enough to not let it get to you.This is not correct and is analogous to saying that because you can run with a bruised ankle anyone can run with a broken ankle.

What's not correct? That they're not productive adults of society? That they don't have depression? That they didn't overcome it and/or deal with it enough to get through life on their own? Apparently you know something that I don't about the people in MY life?

How did we get from bruised to broken? If you mean to imply that broken refers to the person who is super duper over the top, uncontrollably depressed (which at that point you pretty much need to be hospitalized), then fine. But for the most part, depression can be overcome. I've seen it happen by several people, all various stages of depression.

Sorry that this went off topic, but it does need to be said that anything can be overcome in life and anything can be achieved in this country if you apply yourself. That is what makes this country so great. To blame Bush and his administration for not achieving anything in this country is complete crap.

[ElanthianSiren]

I believe Latrin was implying that you may be classifying all individuals based on your boyfriend (the bruised ankle), whereas many states of depression exist, ranging from slight to utterly debilitating (the broken ankle).

-M

[CrystalTears]

Right, because I didn't give the level of depression that he automatically knows how serious it was... for anyone. Wrong.

You know what they say about assuming.

[Keller]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Right, because I didn't give the level of depression that he automatically knows how serious it was... for anyone. Wrong.

You know what they say about assuming.

About the same thing they say about generalizations.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves

I do think it is sad that we have so much poverty and I also think part of it is the Governments fault

How is it even partially the government's fault? Some douche decides to collect welfare instead of going out and getting a JOB and then spends it all on cheap beer and crack is the government's fault?

The only people that should be allowed to collect welfare are handicapped/crippled people that are physically unable to work to support themselves. The rest can starve to death if they're too lazy to get off their ass and feed themselves.

And those single moms that have 12 kids for 12 different guys within 10 years...the government should take their kids away and place them in homes with families that won't raise them to be future welfare rejects. Because their mom is a crackwhore that's too dumb to use a rubber, that's the government's fault too? No, but for some reason they think the government owes them something anyway, and unfortunately the government buys into this bullshit.

I was watching The People's Court a while back and some guy on there was getting monthly checks from the government When the judge asked why his answer was..."for DEPRESSION." Give me a fucking break. Get off your lazy ass and get a job.

As long as the government continues to give handouts to these people, our country will steadily turn to shit more and more.

Being poor is one thing. Abusing the government's welfare system because you're a lazy crackwhore slut is another.

[Edited on 9-14-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]



<<<<As long as the government continues to give handouts to these people, our country will steadily turn to shit more and more. >>>>>

That's kind of what I was going towards, I should have explained more.

Another part of my anger comes from viewing my hometown.

There are so many mexicans there without green cards that work for less so get the jobs. I think the Government should take a stand and kick them all out. Once they get our country fit and out of poverty, if they still feel bad, they can go clean up Mexico and make it better there.

[GSLady17]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by CrystalTears
You can work through depression. My fiance has it, his mother has it, his uncle has it, his father has it... they are all working, productive adults in society. You just have to be motivated enough to not let it get to you.This is not correct and is analogous to saying that because you can run with a bruised ankle anyone can run with a broken ankle.

What's not correct? That they're not productive adults of society? That they don't have depression? That they didn't overcome it and/or deal with it enough to get through life on their own? Apparently you know something that I don't about the people in MY life?

How did we get from bruised to broken? If you mean to imply that broken refers to the person who is super duper over the top, uncontrollably depressed (which at that point you pretty much need to be hospitalized), then fine. But for the most part, depression can be overcome. I've seen it happen by several people, all various stages of depression.

Sorry that this went off topic, but it does need to be said that anything can be overcome in life and anything can be achieved in this country if you apply yourself. That is what makes this country so great. To blame Bush and his administration for not achieving anything in this country is complete crap.


I don't think this is a topic either of you can win.

There are many different levels of depression. Also, it sounds like the people in YOUR life have someone (even if just you) there for some kind of emotional support.

However,

I do believe many people milk "depression" to sit around and be lazy.

If I came under depression and failed in life....I couldn't point fingers at anyone but myself. But I guess it all depends on how you view life and how hard you are willing to work.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
Isn't this rant about depression/welfare off topic?

I'm not trying to be anal here, but the topic is Bush.

Heh.. you said anal.

Heh.. you said bush.

Heh.. I've been without sex for far too long.

[Back]

Uh, gross?

Anyway, on the poor. What ever happened to being a good samaratin? I’m no biblical scholar, but I know a lot of people who claim to be good christians consistantly use the black woman with 5 kids on welfare as the omnipresent leech sucking away at their idyllic atomic family lifestyle. The lazy mexican illegal who has a child here for free health care who also inexplicably takes up all the jobs from the whites, though they are so lazy. Who do such good christians bitch so much about everybody else?

I’ve been to church. If someone in our church was down, everyone would help them out. Its sad that for most, that mentality happens once a week and gets checked at the door.

[Leetahkin]

Isn't it also the jobs these illegal immigrants are doing ones that Americans refuse to do because they think "they are better than having to do such hard manual labor"?

Too much worrying about their 'pride' and being lazy than to get out there and find ANY job rather than milk the states for welfare money.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Nobody Cares
Isn't it also the jobs these illegal immigrants are doing ones that Americans refuse to do because they think "they are better than having to do such hard manual labor"?

Too much worrying about their 'pride' and being lazy than to get out there and find ANY job rather than milk the states for welfare money.

YOU'RE OPENING UP A HUGE CAN OF WORMS! RUN! FLEEEEEE!

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Right, because I didn't give the level of depression that he automatically knows how serious it was... for anyone. Wrong....

We know that the depressed people in your life are not debilitated.
We know that depression CAN BE debilitating.

Hence.

Bruised vs. broken, or broken vs. shattered, if that's better for you.

[Parkbandit]

So..

No posts about his address last night?

I thought it was brilliant.. although I don't agree with the handouts that I'll have to pay for down there.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
So..

No posts about his address last night?

I thought it was brilliant.. although I don't agree with the handouts that I'll have to pay for down there.

Well, I thought it was good. So immediately I started to wonder what was wrong with it. Here I was agreeing. I was watching Scarborough Country after and Joe basically said along with Tucker Carlson that it sounded a lot like a Democratic plan. :lol:

They weren't all that pleased considering the costs and that it didn't sound very fiscally conservative.

[Warriorbird]

Bush ISN'T fiscally conservative. He just has different priorities than the typical Democrat.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Bush ISN'T fiscally conservative. He just has different priorities than the typical Democrat.

One of my concerns over Bush is that he has grown government.. which is against everything conservative. I understand that 9-11 brought about some needed changes.. and with those changes comes costs, but Christ.. it's getting out of control.

How are we going to pay for New Orleans? I understand something has to be done.. but he's trading away his conservative views and policies in hopes to bring about some bipartisan support and harmony. Fine.. then trim the highway bill and trim the energy bill... and Lord I can't believe I'm saying this.. but maybe it's time to repeal SOME of the very high tax breaks. Those three things right there should be able to pay for a big chunk of the programs he was talking about for the gulf region.

[Ilvane]

PB of course you found his speech brilliant.

I don't think it was brilliant at all, though it was a calculated effort to seem like he cares a lot.

He was in California and Arizona after the hurricane hit, making sure his Republican Donors were taken care of, then he came back to Louisiana.

Ah well. In some ways I think that he has done a couple of good things in the past week. Getting rid of the patronage hire for FEMA, and actually asking for more money for the people hurt by Katrina.

I just wonder how he's going to pay for it, if he doesn't ask for a tax increase(which he stubbornly won't for the sake of his friends bank accounts).

-A

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Bush ISN'T fiscally conservative. He just has different priorities than the typical Democrat.

Right, which makes me wonder why some conservatives are so gung ho on the guy. They claim that they don't like the pro-religion stance of the guy and that they are all for fiscal conservativism - but he is not the one. Perhaps you can explain it WB, I know you are pretty good.

[Artha]

I think most are so gung ho about him simply because everyone else is so strongly anti-Bush.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
PB of course you found his speech brilliant.

I don't think it was brilliant at all, though it was a calculated effort to seem like he cares a lot.

He was in California and Arizona after the hurricane hit, making sure his Republican Donors were taken care of, then he came back to Louisiana.

Ah well. In some ways I think that he has done a couple of good things in the past week. Getting rid of the patronage hire for FEMA, and actually asking for more money for the people hurt by Katrina.

I just wonder how he's going to pay for it, if he doesn't ask for a tax increase(which he stubbornly won't for the sake of his friends bank accounts).

-A

What a shocker... Ilvane didn't like Bush's speech. I am surprised, really I am.

The guy basically gives a Democratic speech.. yet you still don't like it. Bush could shit out golden eggs to give to the poor, and you would still have a problem with him.

"BUT HE'S TAKING AWAY JOBS.. WHAT IS THE GOLDEN GOOSE NOW GOING TO DO???"

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Edited on 9-17-05 by Parkbandit]

[HarmNone]

Where the money is going to come from to fund the necessary rebuilding in Louisiana and Mississipi, particularly, is really problematic. Whatever you might feel about Bush, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't on this issue. Something has to be done, but what?

I, personally, don't see any harm in requiring some of these giant construction firms, and some of the other corporate giants, to commit to some pro bono work in the area. Nobody is going to convince me that they've gotta make a killing on this.

[Warriorbird]

Perhaps you can explain it WB, I know you are pretty good.

A lot of reasons. He's got excellent political handlers... better than anything the Democrats have had for a while. His masses of spending make his supporters feel better about themselves, like they're doing good things for the world, and before there was always that hint of lingering guilt over not spending money that the Democrats could play to. He directs money to the issues his constituents care about, which is far more appealing a notion than directing money to things they don't (like the Democrats.)

It offends some old school Republicans, but it appealed to a majority of Americans. People feel like they could go out and have a beer with Bush because he's a compassionate guy. Even Democrats. They'd have had to pay me to go out and have a beer with Kerry. I could see Bush as someone you could drink with. Clinton had that same quality.

The speech didn't bother me. If anything, I wish he would've given it sooner.

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Ilvane]

I didn't say I didn't like it..it's just pretty meaningless if things don't get done.

-A

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I don't think it was brilliant at all, though it was a calculated effort to seem like he cares a lot.-A

Jesus H. Christ...............

[Back]

So I show up for my sis' birthday dinner at her favorite spanish joint. We have a long table and the guests are as diverse as the multitude tapas being served. It is an overwhelmingly liberal group.

Someone mentions Bush’s speech. Huh. I completely missed it. I’ll be looking up a transcript after I post this. But there is a point here.

In my view, how I see things, how I process what I see and hear on my own with what I have learned, without jumping on somebody’s bandwagon is that Bush Jr. is an aberration in the course of American politics. The only explanation I can come up with is that he was put in power by his benefactors; benefactors skilled at manipulation.

But he has said and done some things recently that have caught my attention and made me wonder. I wont say reconsider, just wonder. I’m wondering if Bush is finally filling the office with himself. His views and opinions as opposed to his benefactors. Maybe, just maybe, the man who’s platform has been protecting the American people (while dipping in their pockets for his corporate handlers) sees what an abysmal failure this administration has become. Well, I can only hope anyway.

The cab driver who took me to the spanish restaurant last night was from Africa. He was listening to NPR talk about Katrina refugees and exclaimed how good we had it. That we had nothing at all to complain about. We discussed it briefly agreeing on many points, one being that economics played more a part of the bungled rescue effort than race. He said to me, when you want something, you put rubber to the road and make it happen. He did so himself and crossed the globe for a better life. The subject of Bush came up and even he wondered how we were going to pay to rebuild the Big Easy. I blurt out my standard tax the rich/corporations line and he agrees when he realizes they have more money now than they ever had and more than they even know what to do with. At the end of the ride I remark that this is probably the first thing Bush has said that I agree with. He turns to me and says that he is a republican and that all democrats must have gone to the same school. Too funny. He got a good tip.

So back at the table we all get to talking. Its the usual routine of lamenting over the leadership of our country. Gnashing our teeth on how America has been outright plundered, as usual, but this time I take a different approach. I ask what if everything Bush has said these past couple of weeks is an indication that he has finally become genuine on his stance, that he has finally seen how he has failed and wants to make it right?

The question was met by blank stares and it was then I realized how habitual we had become. Some at the table absolutely refused to even consider that possibility and even criticized me for suggesting it!

I know I can be naive, but I’m also an idealist and optimist. I realize that Bush is going to have speeches written (written is weak, I should say carefully constructed) for him to capture the hearts of the American people while he and the upper echelons go to the bank.

It may just be the flavor of the week, but I hold out hope that we have come to a turning point in American politics and that Bush Jr. is finally becoming a real president.

[ElanthianSiren]

I agree, Backlash. The thing is, he is not up for re-election, so he can now afford to have real opinions. He is using lame-duck status, IMO, to actually act like a leader.

Also, I believe his approval is near the lowest it has ever been at this point; like it or not, this reflects upon congress as well. With congressional elections coming up in 2006, I see this as a prudent move by the republican collective to not lose a branch of government.

-M

[Parkbandit]

One of the things about George W Bush that I like about him.. and have liked about him from the get go.. is that he seems genuine in his caring about Americans and this country. He has put forth some things that were unpopular.. ie Iraq, Social Security, etc.. that I really believe HE thinks are important to the welfare of this country. He doesn't seem to make his policy by reading the morning polls.

That's what makes me a Bush fan.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
I agree, Backlash. The thing is, he is not up for re-election, so he can now afford to have real opinions. He is using lame-duck status, IMO, to actually act like a leader.

Also, I believe his approval is near the lowest it has ever been at this point; like it or not, this reflects upon congress as well. With congressional elections coming up in 2006, I see this as a prudent move by the republican collective to not lose a branch of government.

-M

I don't see him acting any differently during this crisis than he has any other. Perhaps it is your perception that has changed.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Originally posted by Ilvane
I don't think it was brilliant at all, though it was a calculated effort to seem like he cares a lot.-A

Jesus H. Christ...............

Glad you said it... because that's exactly what I was thinking.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
I agree, Backlash. The thing is, he is not up for re-election, so he can now afford to have real opinions. He is using lame-duck status, IMO, to actually act like a leader.

Also, I believe his approval is near the lowest it has ever been at this point; like it or not, this reflects upon congress as well. With congressional elections coming up in 2006, I see this as a prudent move by the republican collective to not lose a branch of government.

-M

I don't see him acting any differently during this crisis than he has any other. Perhaps it is your perception that has changed.

He seems less sure of himself, he has less swagger. He seems out of his depth. He looks like he doesn't know what to do. Luckily for him his advisers have told him that the Feds need more power & control over disaster management to avoid this happening again which despite being an anti-Repub stance (more Fed power) says that it wasn't really their fault because they lacked the authority to intercede earlier.

He has looked more human during this then I ever remember him looking. He looks genuinely upset and perplexed without the bluster. Although this is a more honest and genuine Bush, I can't say that I am comforted by it, as it just reveals his utter lack of competence.

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by xtc]

[Gan]

Yes, because we all know that Kerry or Gore would have reacted more 'super hero' like in a situation such as this.

He's human, you're expectations are whats out of whack, not Bush's ability to respond to crisis.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Yes, because we all know that Kerry or Gore would have reacted more 'super hero' like in a situation such as this.

He's human, you're expectations are whats out of whack, not Bush's ability to respond to crisis.

So I should be happy with how the Federal Government has responded?

That Bush's appointee to the Director of FEMA had no disaster management experience before joining FEMA? This is ok?

I think both Kerry and Clinton would have done a much better job. I am not sure about Gore I don't know a lot about the man.

[Gan]

I think the overall response was lacking. But saying the Federal Govt. was the overall blame is assnine.

The buck starts with the local governments. Even if thats not as convienent as blaming Bush. :rolleyes:

[Warriorbird]

...

I think Clinton would've done a better job. I can't say the same about Gore or Kerry.

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Gan]

Originally posted by xtcI think both Kerry and Clinton would have done a much better job.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hillary-ous

Heeeey, I know, Kerry could have used his swift-boat experience to lead the pack in the high water rescue. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Ganalon]

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Ganalon

Originally posted by xtcI think both Kerry and Clinton would have done a much better job.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hillary-ous

Heeeey, I know, Kerry could have used his swift-boat experience to lead the pack in the high water rescue. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Ganalon]

How do you know they wouldn't have? It's pure speculation vs. reality. We KNOW how Bush handled it. I don't see where you really can argue on this Ganalon.

The swiftboat comment is about as brilliant as those who say things like Bush's judgement is clouded today by his "reputed" cocaine use in the past.

[ElanthianSiren]

My perception of Bush has not changed, but I can give credit where it is due. I can also examine situations in context; in this case, I'm sure this disaster will be brought up in the next congressional election.

-M

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by xtc

I think both Kerry and Clinton would have done a much better job. I am not sure about Gore I don't know a lot about the man.

Opinions are like assholes.. everyone has one. Yours just seems to be broken and dripping.

Kerry would be a better leader? How the FUCK did you come up with this thought? He's been in the Senate for how fucking long and has YET to be a leader there?

"BUT HE'S A DEMOCRAT.. HE MUST BE BETTER... REALLY".

And Clinton a better leader? I don't think so. Clinton was a better public speaker... nothing more. I have actually grown to like and admire Clinton since he left office. He gave an interview on the Today show last week that really made me say "Wow.. look at how much he has changed" when he was talking about the Federal Government's response to Katrina. He actually sided with the current administration.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
How do you know they wouldn't have? It's pure speculation vs. reality. We KNOW how Bush handled it. I don't see where you really can argue on this Ganalon.


You can though. Take a look at their leadership qualities in their previous jobs. I think Clinton would have handled it just as well as I believe Bush is handling it... but Gore or Kerry? Those two couldn't lead shit, which was always the knock on both of them.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by Ganalon

Originally posted by xtcI think both Kerry and Clinton would have done a much better job.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hillary-ous

Heeeey, I know, Kerry could have used his swift-boat experience to lead the pack in the high water rescue. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Ganalon]

The swiftboat comment is about as brilliant as those who say things like Bush's judgement is clouded today by his "reputed" cocaine use in the past.

Or about as stupid and without merit as saying Kerry would do a better job than Bush.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
You can though. Take a look at their leadership qualities in their previous jobs. I think Clinton would have handled it just as well as I believe Bush is handling it... but Gore or Kerry? Those two couldn't lead shit, which was always the knock on both of them.

Hon, are you sure that is what you want to do? I mean, Kerry may only be a Senator - but Bush bankrupted what, one or two companies? Clinton couldn't keep his dick in his pants throughout his career. They all have leadership qualities of some degree.

I think that you just don't like Kerry. Which is fine. Still doesn't negate the fact that we don't know how anyone would respond to something like Katrina until they are faced with it. :shrug:

I am not convinced that anyone would have responded better. Maybe someone would have come back from vaca sooner, or whatever....but a lot of what happened was purely due to bureacracy and the weak links and holes that are obviously apparent in HS.

Sure Bush might be to blame for giving his buddy an appointment to FEMA, but I think that at this point no matter what he does he'll have strong critics.

[DeV]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
but I think that at this point no matter what he does he'll have strong critics. And even stronger supporters which I think he definitely needs.

I don't have an opinion on the speech. Actions speak louder than words. It remains to be seen how this will be carried out and for the time being, I'll reseve my personal comments until the government stands behind their well written words.

[Gan]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
How do you know they wouldn't have? It's pure speculation vs. reality. We KNOW how Bush handled it. I don't see where you really can argue on this Ganalon.

I can argue on the same point as those who say Kerry or Clinton WOULD have done a better job. How would you justify it???



Originally posted by TheRoseLady
The swiftboat comment is about as brilliant as those who say things like Bush's judgement is clouded today by his "reputed" cocaine use in the past.

Quid pro quo I say. And I also thought it was funny.

:shrug:

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Ganalon
I can argue on the same point as those who say Kerry or Clinton WOULD have done a better job. How would you justify it???


Who brought up Kerry and Gore to begin with Ganalon? You.

[Gan]

Now you're arguing semantics.

:rolleyes:

edited to add:

Perhaps you're right, arguing Kerry or Gore and what they would have done was pointless since they were'nt competent enough to get elected as President. :lol:

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Ganalon]

[Back]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Now you're arguing semantics.

:rolleyes:

edited to add:

Perhaps you're right, arguing Kerry or Gore and what they would have done was pointless since they were'nt competent enough to get elected as President. :lol:

[Edited on 9-17-2005 by Ganalon]

Well, Gore did win the popular vote. But, you are right, this argument is pointless.

Edit to add that Kerry only lost by a very small margin. (cough :Ohio: cough)

[Edited on 9-18-2005 by Backlash]

[xtc]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by xtc

I think both Kerry and Clinton would have done a much better job. I am not sure about Gore I don't know a lot about the man.

Opinions are like assholes.. everyone has one. Yours just seems to be broken and dripping.

Kerry would be a better leader? How the FUCK did you come up with this thought? He's been in the Senate for how fucking long and has YET to be a leader there?

"BUT HE'S A DEMOCRAT.. HE MUST BE BETTER... REALLY".

And Clinton a better leader? I don't think so. Clinton was a better public speaker... nothing more. I have actually grown to like and admire Clinton since he left office. He gave an interview on the Today show last week that really made me say "Wow.. look at how much he has changed" when he was talking about the Federal Government's response to Katrina. He actually sided with the current administration.

I said I believed that Kerry and Clinton would have done a better job in this situation. Bush looked like a deer caught in headlights during this. The Director of FEMA he nominated had no prior experience in disaster management before joining FEMA. I would have thought that was a must. Who would hire an Chief Financial Officer with no accounting experience?

I am not some bleeding heart liberal that believes Democrats always are better. I was never a registered Democrat. I am conservative on many issues. I don't like Bush, contrary to your opinion, as Bush's term has gone on I have liked him less with each passing day.

As I have stated in previous posts I think all three levels of Government can share in the blame.

I stated my opinion which is what everyone else here has done.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Backlash

Edit to add that Kerry only lost by a very small margin. (cough :Ohio: cough)

[Edited on 9-18-2005 by Backlash]

Close only counts with horse-shoes and hand grenades, my friend.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Where were you after 9-11-01? I think my opinion of him changed on the day after the attacks.. and especially when he gave his speech. Before I was just ok with him.. after that, I became a big supporter.

If you can get by the bullshit politics for once and really look at him objectively.. I think you will see a man that is really trying to make this country a safer, better place.

I supported Bush after the WTC attacks, until he pushed for Iraq. Prior to that he was a lame duck and I felt it was probably better if he remained on vacation until the 2004 elections.

His statement, while I remain unconvinced it's not lip service, is probably the only example of him stepping up like a man.

[Edited on 9-24-2005 by Tsa`ah]