View Full Version : Get Off His Back
Warriorbird
09-12-2005, 04:34 PM
Clearly there's no Federal problem (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/12/katrina.impact/index.html)
Jayvn
09-12-2005, 08:31 PM
Our president is still the antichrist. And it really is such a tragedy that he had to cut his month+ long vacation short to lend a hand helping out his American people. I was with Kanye on this one.
iomelindi
09-12-2005, 08:40 PM
Let's just stop laying blame. Truth is, it is the fault of ALOT of people. There is so much "crying wolf" from the media about everything, we tend not to listen anymore. Lets pray to whatever gods you want for the people who have passed on, and the people who survived them...and lets get re-building. The only thing we can do now is look back, say how bad we all fucked up...and hopefully by some chance in hell we don't fuck up so badly again. My word of advice, if it all bothers you so much....go to the Astrodome or any other refugee place and help them. Help their pets, donate clothing and supplies. Something, anything. I think the people of the US have come together more so then the gov did, and that proves what we all knew to begin with. If shit happens, we are on our own. I applaud anyone who has helped, in any way at all. Go us!
TheRoseLady
09-12-2005, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by iomelindi
Let's just stop laying blame. Truth is, it is the fault of ALOT of people. There is so much "crying wolf" from the media about everything, we tend not to listen anymore. Lets pray to whatever gods you want for the people who have passed on, and the people who survived them...and lets get re-building. The only thing we can do now is look back, say how bad we all fucked up...and hopefully by some chance in hell we don't fuck up so badly again. My word of advice, if it all bothers you so much....go to the Astrodome or any other refugee place and help them. Help their pets, donate clothing and supplies. Something, anything. I think the people of the US have come together more so then the gov did, and that proves what we all knew to begin with. If shit happens, we are on our own. I applaud anyone who has helped, in any way at all. Go us!
Well, I didn't see any crying wolf when I saw those people dying from dehydration at the Convention center, did you?
As for your little smack talk about "if it bothers us so much..." Gimme a break. A person who just registers today comes here to admonish the people who are "talking shit?"
Want a laundry list of what the people on these boards have done? Wanna talk to Bill who helped raise 750,000 dollars through a telethon? Wanna talk to Ganalon and his wife, she's been doing nursing related things at the Astrodome, he's been helping to donate and covering the home base. Countless numbers of us have donated money, blood, donated clothing - some have even donated time.
Here's a newsflash for you, not everyone is a "first responder". Not everyone can drop what they are doing to run down there and help in person - but don't for a minute think that we don't care.
In case you haven't noticed, you're wading through the political folder... expect folks to talk about politics. Expect folks to assign blame.
P.S. Welcome to the PC.
Originally posted by Drayal
Yeah, welcome.
And ouch. Word. Haha.
Tsa`ah
09-13-2005, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by iomelindi
Let's just stop laying blame. Truth is, it is the fault of ALOT of people. There is so much "crying wolf" from the media about everything, we tend not to listen anymore. Lets pray to whatever gods you want for the people who have passed on, and the people who survived them...and lets get re-building. The only thing we can do now is look back, say how bad we all fucked up...and hopefully by some chance in hell we don't fuck up so badly again. My word of advice, if it all bothers you so much....go to the Astrodome or any other refugee place and help them. Help their pets, donate clothing and supplies. Something, anything. I think the people of the US have come together more so then the gov did, and that proves what we all knew to begin with. If shit happens, we are on our own. I applaud anyone who has helped, in any way at all. Go us!
Way to demonstrate the power of selective reading.
Blame needs to be looked into if we're ever to avoid catastrophic failures such as this. It was a failure by every agency with the exception of the national weather service.
Most people watching the news can't pick up and head south to lend a helping hand. What we can do is what we've been doing ... donating in any way we can.
So do everyone a favor before you hit that reply button ... read and consider how moronic you'll be percieved BEFORE you hit the post button.
iomelindi
09-13-2005, 08:58 AM
"Well, I didn't see any crying wolf when I saw those people dying from dehydration at the Convention center, did you? "
That was my point. The media blows so much shit out of proportion, the people who should have listened didn't, and suffered :(
"Want a laundry list of what the people on these boards have done? Wanna talk to Bill who helped raise 750,000 dollars through a telethon? Wanna talk to Ganalon and his wife, she's been doing nursing related things at the Astrodome, he's been helping to donate and covering the home base. Countless numbers of us have donated money, blood, donated clothing - some have even donated time."
Right....as I said....I applaud anyone who has helped, in any way at all. Go us!
"In case you haven't noticed, you're wading through the political folder... expect folks to talk about politics. Expect folks to assign blame."
No shit. Thanks for the update. Thats why I listed my opinion.
"Way to demonstrate the power of selective reading. "
No kidding, please go re-read my post and think before you slam me.
"Most people watching the news can't pick up and head south to lend a helping hand. What we can do is what we've been doing ... donating in any way we can. "
Right, once again....I applaud anyone who has helped, in any way at all. Go us! I was talking about people, even people I know who are the type to just bitch and complain over their 5.00 Starbucks and do jack shit about anything.
" It was a failure by every agency with the exception of the national weather service. "
Right. Thats what I said. "Truth is, it is the fault of ALOT of people." Some people just blame Bush. I believe everyone failed.
"So do everyone a favor before you hit that reply button ... read and consider how moronic you'll be percieved BEFORE you hit the post button."
You are right. I will be sure to consider how you will re-act to any future posting, and be sure to have you check it before I post and insult everyone with my honesty and similar opinion.
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 09:05 AM
Right, once again....I applaud anyone who has helped, in any way at all. Go us! I was talking about people, even people I know who are the type to just bitch and complain over their 5.00 Starbucks and do jack shit about anything.
And in the process laying a generalized style personal attack on everyone on any side with your first post.
I think everyone debating here, liberal or conservative, has done something. Least I hope so.
iomelindi
09-13-2005, 09:25 AM
If you were insulted, then you fit into the catagory of people who haven't done anything. Anyone who has done something, donating money, clothes...making phone calls to reunite family members...ANYTHING would have no reason to feel insulted. I assumed most people here HAD done something and I was generalizing about everyone else. I could care less if you are liberal or conservative, it doesnt really matter in a time of crisis on a human level. As I said in my post, I hope everyone from Federal down to local will learn from this horrible fuck up and never let it happen again. This was a tragic event, as much man made as it was weather based. The people have come together more so to support those in need then the gov has so far. The Bay Area milionaire who flew his fancy plane down to New Orleans to pick up strays and transport them to shelters is close to a saint in my book. I stated that when it comes to a time of crisis, the american people are on our own. And thankfully, most of us here are the ones who get off our asses to do something. The rest of the people need to be eaten.
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 09:28 AM
Takes a fair bit more than that for me to be insulted. I was suggesting that maybe it wasn't the best sort've comment because so many people involved in this discussion have put in effort.
CrystalTears
09-13-2005, 09:36 AM
I think some are reading far too deep into what he said. I saw nothing wrong with what he initially said, I just think people are sensitive about this issue and took immediate offense to it.
He stated the "crying wolf" is from the media, not from the people. What he said is nothing new. The media always overdramatizes any given situation. I also don't think he labeled anyone here about not doing anything. I too saw it as the people who complain and yet don't do anything.
Give the guy some slack. Some of you tend to come down hard on new people who join in order to be part of the discussion, as though outsiders don't have a say. Not saying that's what being implied, but that's how it's coming across.
I can agree the the media view of situations can become myopic and perhaps shape public opinion. But lets give the public a little more credit than that for a moment and look at public opinion polls.
It is very clear that the majority feel the government, the president in particular who may or may not be directly responsible for the response, has let them down.
Oddly, the truth of the president’s response dosen’t even matter any more. The truth is now the public’s opinion.
Tsa`ah
09-13-2005, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by CrystalTears
He stated the "crying wolf" is from the media, not from the people. What he said is nothing new. The media always overdramatizes any given situation. I also don't think he labeled anyone here about not doing anything. I too saw it as the people who complain and yet don't do anything.
I don't think the media is guilty of crying wolf in this case. Even Fox blasted Bush.
The media has been at point, doing thier jobs, exposing what a failure the effort was from pre-land fall to post storm.
What do you think the general response by the populace would have been if we didn't see the bodies floating, the looting, the horrid conditions due to seclusion of the mass shelter. Would anyone dare question the effort if they didn't hear about how the "poor people's" hospital wasn't evacuted, yet the "Insurance and cash only hospital" less than 1 block away had an air evac the moment the sky cleared?
The media isn't blowing anything out of proportion. One could watch the footage over the past few weeks without the sound and come to a similar conclusion. It was poorly handled, people suffered, people died, and someone or several people should be held accountable.
We can give the CIC a break, but he was already on vacation.
We can accept that there wasn't any sort of racial descrimination, but you can't expect any sane and logical individual to look at the group left behind and tell me that social/financial descrimination did not occur.
Give the guy some slack. Some of you tend to come down hard on new people who join in order to be part of the discussion, as though outsiders don't have a say. Not saying that's what being implied, but that's how it's coming across.
[Edited on 9-13-2005 by Tsa`ah]
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 10:36 AM
Outsiders of course have a say. Coming out swinging at theoretically EVERYONE generally is not the best policy however. At least pick half of us.
Takes a fair bit more than that for me to be insulted.
- Warriorbird.
Give me some sort of clue?
Future reference?
CrystalTears
09-13-2005, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Tsa`ah
I don't think the media is guilty of crying wolf in this case. Even Fox blasted Bush.
Fox blasted everybody, not just Bush. However as the information and news unfolds, we see who is largely to blame. Today I saw them speaking to one of the former heads of FEMA and he stated that pre-hurricane plans are the responsibility of state and local governments to handle. Had the pre-disaster plans been better, the problem wouldn't be as bad as it was. After that it was let's clean the mess, and yes, that definitely could have been better. That's a given.
The media has been at point, doing thier jobs, exposing what a failure the effort was from pre-land fall to post storm.
Things could have handled better on all sides, but I would hardly consider this a failure. That would have entailed thousands of deaths and that was not the case. This disaster was bad enough to consider the outcome a failure.
The media isn't blowing anything out of proportion.
HAHAHA! C'mon Tsa`ah, you're not stupid or gullible. I'm more liable to believe things I hear than you. You honestly believe that? They show you the really bad parts of the ordeal. They showed you how LA allowed the N.O. to go out of control because they didn't know what to do with their own financially-unstable people. If this was a known issue, wouldn't you think they would have been even extra careful of their plans for evacuation?
We can accept that there wasn't any sort of racial descrimination, but you can't expect any sane and logical individual to look at the group left behind and tell me that social/financial descrimination did not occur.
And I blame the locals primarily for that. They knew they were underpriviledged and they didn't know how to handle such a large feat. Let's face it.. they panicked and didn't know what to do. People are seeing that now. Not having enough people to drive the ample amounts of buses they have? Poor planning on their part before, poor planning on behalf of everyone else afterwards.
[Edited on 9/13/2005 by CrystalTears]
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 01:10 PM
However as the information and news unfolds, we see who is largely to blame.
No, you cling to outdated spin. Bush accepted responsibility for the Federal government's failure today, which was manful. Why can't you accept that there was a large degree of Federal responsibility?
[Edited on 9-13-2005 by Warriorbird]
CrystalTears
09-13-2005, 01:19 PM
Just because he's saying that he's at fault doesn't mean that I agree with it. I still believe that local and state governments are more at fault for what happened. :shrug:
[Edited on 9/13/2005 by CrystalTears]
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 01:25 PM
Because I bothered to do some research. Because I'm close with some people who are intimately connected with the Federal issues vis a vis the area. Because I don't give Bush a free pass when he fucks up. I was impressed with his reponse to 9/11. I gave him credit for it fairly publicly, and got slammed for that by my family. I was not impressed here. I don't give him credit. Simple enough.
This is the party that got here based partially on notions of keeping the people safe. I imagine that's one of of the reasons you voted for them. Correct me if I'm wrong?
It's like that Ben Stein editorial. It goes on and on about things that weren't Bush, and numbers and various things... and it mentions the area of Federal responsibility all of once... despite the fact that we're talking billions of dollars versus millions of dollars. Billion trumps million, if you remember your Austin Powers.
[Edited on 9-13-2005 by Warriorbird]
CrystalTears
09-13-2005, 01:29 PM
Could you drop your ego down a little bit please? Christ. Oooo you have friends in high places, have done research, and have taken a little yelling from family. BFD. Thanks. I'm out of this thread again. Go you.
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 01:33 PM
Ego? Thanks, drama queen.
:)
Parkbandit
09-13-2005, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Warriorbird Because I don't give Bush a free pass when he fucks up.
LMFGDAO
You blame Bush for ANYTHING that goes wrong.. which is worse. Your objectivity is basically zero when it comes to a Republican... especially him.
But hey.. keep pretending you are non-biased. It's laughable from where I am reading.
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 01:39 PM
You don't even try any more. Who looks worse?
Parkbandit
09-13-2005, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Warriorbird
You don't even try any more. Who looks worse?
From my standpoint? You.
The only time I feel the need to defend him is when he is being unfairly judged.
Originally posted by Parkbandit
Originally posted by Warriorbird
You don't even try any more. Who looks worse?
From my standpoint? You.
The only time I feel the need to defend him is when he is being unfairly judged.
I do the same thing and get labled a rabid conservative republican. As with anything that comes hence I'm starting to take with a grain of salt, knowing that its either black or white, the grey area that is inherent to the body politik is not even considered in most of the bush bashing threads I've read over the past year(s).
ElanthianSiren
09-13-2005, 01:57 PM
Perhaps it's simply that each side of the political spectrum views responsibilities of the federal government differently; therefor it's not that Bush is being judged unfairly but unfairly by your terms and point of view.
-M
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 01:59 PM
From my standpoint? You.
The only time I feel the need to defend him is when he is being unfairly judged.
Of course. You're a paragon of objectivity. Ganalon too.
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 02:03 PM
the grey area that is inherent to the body politik
Curious. Seemed like it's being neglected by the "get off poor Bush's back" folks. Given as he's admitted to being responsible for the Federal failure.
I think there were a lot of problems with this situation. I don't think tossing excessive blame towards the state and local officials is exactly a good strategy towards dealing with that. Bush + handlers finally seem to have realized that. I'm glad. I'm sure there's a lot of damaging things that local and state officials have done (and certainly Congress, who gets the share of the blame that they'll never recieve in my eyes)... my issue is with denying Federal fault by attempting to demonize everyone else involved.
There seems to be enough blame to go around. Bush stayed on vacation while the disaster hit.
The Mayor of New Orleans turned down an offer from Amtrak to train people out of the city the day before Katrina hit.
STORY (http://www.louisianaweekly.com/weekly/news/articlegate.pl?20050912g)
The Governor did not, according to the Washington Post on Sunday, contact the Emergency Management Assistance Compact.
Bush isn't solely responsibile but certainly he has to shoulder a large part of the blame. Did his appointee to FEMA Michael Brown have any experience in disaster management before joining FEMA?
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 02:17 PM
I thought it was particularly interesting when Revalos posted what he did, myself.
This is an insightful thread.
http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=17267
Parkbandit
09-13-2005, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Perhaps it's simply that each side of the political spectrum views responsibilities of the federal government differently; therefor it's not that Bush is being judged unfairly but unfairly by your terms and point of view.
-M
Nope.. because I see it from both sides of the isle. when Clinton was in office, I saw many people bashing him needlessly and also posted against it.
Making me a Republican doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that the President does, says or is. The same should be true if you are a Democrat.. not everything he does, says or is needs to be disagreed with either.
Parkbandit
09-13-2005, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Warriorbird
From my standpoint? You.
The only time I feel the need to defend him is when he is being unfairly judged.
Of course. You're a paragon of objectivity. Ganalon too.
Since you really have zero basis for this.. I'll chalk this up to a big assumption on your part. I suppose if a Democrat ever gets into the office of the Presidency again, we'll see if that's the case. Until then.. it's merely an assumption on your part.. one that I disagree with.
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 02:21 PM
Nope.. because I see it from both sides of the isle. when Clinton was in office, I saw many people bashing him needlessly and also posted against it.
Making me a Republican doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that the President does, says or is. The same should be true if you are a Democrat.. not everything he does, says or is needs to be disagreed with either. -Parkbandit
This is pretty funny after this.
But hey.. keep pretending you are non-biased. It's laughable from where I am reading. -Parkbandit
I think I'll echo the sentiment. What makes you special?
Parkbandit
09-13-2005, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Warriorbird
Nope.. because I see it from both sides of the isle. when Clinton was in office, I saw many people bashing him needlessly and also posted against it.
Making me a Republican doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that the President does, says or is. The same should be true if you are a Democrat.. not everything he does, says or is needs to be disagreed with either. -Parkbandit
This is pretty funny after this.
But hey.. keep pretending you are non-biased. It's laughable from where I am reading. -Parkbandit
I think I'll echo the sentiment. What makes you special?
Special? Nothing. Never claimed to be special in anyway political.
I simply believe I am far more objective on political matters than you are. Granted, we've only seen your negative side and my positive side.. so maybe if Hillary Clinton, the real anti-Christ is elected, we'll see.
:P
Warriorbird
09-13-2005, 02:27 PM
my positive side
That has to be humour. You have one?
ElanthianSiren
09-13-2005, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Parkbandit
Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Perhaps it's simply that each side of the political spectrum views responsibilities of the federal government differently; therefor it's not that Bush is being judged unfairly but unfairly by your terms and point of view.
-M
Nope.. because I see it from both sides of the isle. when Clinton was in office, I saw many people bashing him needlessly and also posted against it.
Making me a Republican doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that the President does, says or is. The same should be true if you are a Democrat.. not everything he does, says or is needs to be disagreed with either.
I wasn't saying it did. I was stating that democrats, republicans, liberatarians, indepedents etc tend to view the role of the federal government very differently. Despite the fact that FEMA's job description is to deal with crisis beyond the magnitude of the local and state governments, I can see why individuals lay blame where they do based on their party affiliations. That's all.
-M
Originally posted by Warriorbird
my positive side
That has to be humour. You have one? I found the humor in it.
Bush Takes Responsibility for Blunders (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050913/ap_on_go_ot/katrina_washington;_ylt=ArArUBmSJxyPuOcV8jhz6W6tOr gF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-)
"Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government," Bush said at a joint White House news conference with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani.
"And to the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility. I want to know what went right and what went wrong," said Bush
Parkbandit
09-13-2005, 05:35 PM
WELL IF HE TOOK RESPONSIBILITY, IT CLEARLY WAS ALL HIS FAULT!
YOU WIN BACKLASH! YOU WIN!!!!!
I am only slightly impressed that he is actually being trying to be a real leader. For once.
Parkbandit
09-13-2005, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Backlash
I am only slightly impressed that he is actually being trying to be a real leader. For once.
I'm sure he'll sleep easier knowing you feel that way. What a load off his mind.
Whew!
Thats an outright lie. Caught you! LIARLIAR!!
TheRoseLady
09-13-2005, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by iomelindi
big long post
You seemed to have forgotten your first sentence...
Let's just stop laying blame.
So, you say that you were aware that you were in a political folder, yet you want folks to stop discussing it? Right.
So what you really meant was. Stop whining and complaining, stop placing blame. Here allow me to step onto my soapbox and tell you a thing or two. :yes:
Originally posted by Warriorbird
Of course. You're a paragon of objectivity. Ganalon too.
I pale in comparison to you and Backlash. Although, your vitriol against 'the man' and the rest of the Republican party has made the the PC an outstanding place to debate politiks, even though your stance is somewhat predictable with each thread you start in this folder.
TheRoseLady
09-13-2005, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Ganalon
Originally posted by Warriorbird
Of course. You're a paragon of objectivity. Ganalon too.
I pale in comparison to you and Backlash. Although, your vitriol against 'the man' and the rest of the Republican party has made the the PC an outstanding place to debate politiks, even though your stance is somewhat predictable with each thread you start in this folder.
I would be willing to bet that if we took a poll the readers would say the most vocal Conservatives are PB and Ganalon. The most vocal of the Liberals, Warriorbird and Backlash.
I did refuse to name Dave because most of his political talk is nonsense. He might win with effort but he loses on content.
:yes:
Thats skeery since I'm considered by my more conservative friends as being moderate and even an independant at times.
Either way I enjoy the debate and insanity that makes the PC/Politics discussion.
:rah:
Chaddy
09-14-2005, 01:14 AM
Bush at his finest.
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