And it starts .....

[Keller]

As usual Michael Moore presents either "hate and filth" or "analysis and insight" for your reading pleasure. I particularly like the Clinton shout-out at the end of paragraph 4. Hilarity!

Without further adeiu (Rhett or Tamral -- feel free to correct my spelling. It saves me the hassle of spell-checking for internet forums) I present his letter ....

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com

[Terminator X]

1) That was awesome.

2) He publicized his AOL account? :wtf2:

[Sean of the Thread]

Incredibily stupid babble from a man that has no fucking idea what is going on. Well he does know that he is morbidly obsese because he is paying $3800 a week for fat camp.


From The Poor Man Institute.


And there it is. Proof positive that Michael Moore is fat. Don’t try to weasel your way out of this, liberals - you don’t check yourself into a fat farm unless you are a fatty-boom-bah-latty, and that’s what Moore did. Ergo, he is fat. He has a big fat butt, a swollen beer belly, many jiggly waddles flopping under his chin, big fat sausage fingers, and an all-around doughiness that is the tell-tale sign that someone is a fatty pants, and he needs to do the fatty dance. Fatty fatty fat fat fatty fat fat.

It is now clear to me that the Iraq war is a splendid rip-roaring success, apart from the horrible job the CIA did which made Mr. Bush look like a stupid liar; that no one in the Administration ever said that Saddam was involved with 9/11, even though he was; that global warming is a myth propagated by Trotskyite climate nerds; that there’s nothing wrong with the economy that a few tax cuts for the retardedly rich can’t cure; that George Soros is an anti-Semite; that the Moonie Cult Newsletter is a real grown-up newspaper; that Ann Coulter is female; that theocracy is pretty much the same as democracy (or else why would they rhyme?); that evolution is only a theory, just like my theory that Julia Stiles is sending me secret love messages in all of her movies; that Iran is next (I hope!); and pretty much anything else that I read on Instapundit is exactly true, and not at all a steaming pile of bullshit in any way. I had always sort of suspected that this was the case, and now, at long last, I’ve got the proof: Michael Moore is a big fat no-neck monster who goes to fat camp. And I see no reason to listen to anyone who says different until Moore loses at least 70 pounds.

[Via Faisal.]

…UPDATE: I have obtained reliable evidence that Moore has thunder thighs and has a custom-built water cooler that dispenses refreshing melted butter. If true, this would be the final piece of evidence needed to prove that Saddam’s WMD are in Syria.

[CrystalTears]

Michael Moore makes me sick.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Incredibily stupid babble from a man that has no fucking idea what is going on. Well he does know that he is morbidly obsese because he is paying $3800 a week for fat camp.


From The Poor Man Institute.


And there it is. Proof positive that Michael Moore is fat. Don’t try to weasel your way out of this, liberals - you don’t check yourself into a fat farm unless you are a fatty-boom-bah-latty, and that’s what Moore did. Ergo, he is fat. He has a big fat butt, a swollen beer belly, many jiggly waddles flopping under his chin, big fat sausage fingers, and an all-around doughiness that is the tell-tale sign that someone is a fatty pants, and he needs to do the fatty dance. Fatty fatty fat fat fatty fat fat.

It is now clear to me that the Iraq war is a splendid rip-roaring success, apart from the horrible job the CIA did which made Mr. Bush look like a stupid liar; that no one in the Administration ever said that Saddam was involved with 9/11, even though he was; that global warming is a myth propagated by Trotskyite climate nerds; that there’s nothing wrong with the economy that a few tax cuts for the retardedly rich can’t cure; that George Soros is an anti-Semite; that the Moonie Cult Newsletter is a real grown-up newspaper; that Ann Coulter is female; that theocracy is pretty much the same as democracy (or else why would they rhyme?); that evolution is only a theory, just like my theory that Julia Stiles is sending me secret love messages in all of her movies; that Iran is next (I hope!); and pretty much anything else that I read on Instapundit is exactly true, and not at all a steaming pile of bullshit in any way. I had always sort of suspected that this was the case, and now, at long last, I’ve got the proof: Michael Moore is a big fat no-neck monster who goes to fat camp. And I see no reason to listen to anyone who says different until Moore loses at least 70 pounds.

[Via Faisal.]

…UPDATE: I have obtained reliable evidence that Moore has thunder thighs and has a custom-built water cooler that dispenses refreshing melted butter. If true, this would be the final piece of evidence needed to prove that Saddam’s WMD are in Syria.

So the basis of your dispute is because he's fat?

[Back]

Yeah, thats the typical, and very childish, response. Its pretty sad really.

[Warriorbird]

"Michael Moore makes me sick. "

Michael Savage makes me sick.

[4a6c1]

:heart: Michael Savage. Hes angrier than me on stacker pills.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Xyelin
Proof positive that Michael Moore is fat. I think that is the one thing about Moore that is most American... unfortunately.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"Michael Moore makes me sick. "

Michael Savage makes me sick.

Unsure what he has to do with it. Although I don't like him either as I don't like extremes on either side.

Still wondering what the tirade of him being fat has to do with this. So he's fat, big whoop. If he was lecturing people about laziness and obesity, then I'd definitely tell him to sit down and shut up. However he has the right to express his beliefs, I just REALLY don't agree with them. I think he's a very intelligent, very clever person and uses his genius for doing more bad than good.

[Skirmisher]

The problem is that Moore is not quite as clever as he seems to think he is.

If he would just tone it down say 5-10% and actually get feedback from people with a differening pov than his own, his movies would be far far better than they are.

As it is, I think he surrounds himself with yes people much like Bush does and ends up hearing only what he wants.

[CrystalTears]

Oh I believe him to be very clever because he knows how to manipulate the information he has to usually, if not mostly, work in his favor. That's mostly what irritates me about him. It's also the factor that he feels that everyone is deserving of everything, and that's not realistic either.

And I agree, if he would find more points of view such as those opposed to his own, even if he reports his own spin on it, would really improve his approach.

And as much as I don't like Moore for being such an extreme liberal, I prefer that than the people who are just completely anti-government and always critical of what is done, that nothing will ever be good enough, that all resolutions can be done in a perfect way, and that anything but singing kumbaya with each other is a bad ruling.

[Edited on 9/6/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Michael Moore
It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in povertyIf we're blaming Bush for POVERTY now, I think we have long since passed the city limits of Crazy Town. What's next, blaming him for night?

And evidently Michael Moore doesn't read the PC, because we've already been over all that other stuff. Keep up already, Mike!

[Gan]

Enter another opportunist that wishes to launch another book or get his face in front of the cameras for another 15 minutes of fame.

[Detri]

I know this is adding nothing to the coversation, but...


http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2617/mmoore8aj.jpg

[Jorddyn]

I want to beat Michael Moore with a baseball bat.

Jorddyn, bleeding heart liberal

[Warriorbird]

I don't think folks like Moore or the various talk radio/tv hosts are worth worrying about too much.

I prefer his other documentaries to Faherenheit 9-11 though.

[Terminator X]

The idea that our Government, in particular Mr. Bush, so successfully has been harping on don't politicize, gives me the exact same angst about the situation that Michael Moore is demonstrating the "why" to :shrug:

[Landrion]

I kind of hope the Dems take the White House this time around so I can hear the other side of Mike's broken record. I get it, he thinks Bush sucks. I get it, he thinks the war sucks too. I get it, Bush didnt respond fast enough to 9/11, hurricanes, global warming or anything else.

Of course, realistically even a Dem in the white house wont shut him up. Then everything will be the fault of the republican controlled congress. If they lose that too it will be an obstructionist Rep minority. After that Republican insurgents in the woods - or something.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Landrion
Of course, realistically even a Dem in the white house wont shut him up. Then everything will be the fault of the republican controlled congress. If they lose that too it will be an obstructionist Rep minority. After that Republican insurgents in the woods - or something.

Please keep in mind that he is to the Democrats what Rush is to the Republicans - someone who makes a few good points, and holds the hearts of extremists, but for the most part embarrasses the party.

Jorddyn

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"Michael Moore makes me sick. "

Michael Savage makes me sick.

Randy Savage makes me eat Slim Jims.

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Jorddyn

Originally posted by Landrion
Of course, realistically even a Dem in the white house wont shut him up. Then everything will be the fault of the republican controlled congress. If they lose that too it will be an obstructionist Rep minority. After that Republican insurgents in the woods - or something.

Please keep in mind that he is to the Democrats what Rush is to the Republicans - someone who makes a few good points, and holds the hearts of extremists, but for the most part embarrasses the party.

Jorddyn

Noted. Its like the tagline from Lilo and Stitch, Every family's got one.

[Warriorbird]

Of course, realistically even a Dem in the white house wont shut him up. Then everything will be the fault of the republican controlled congress. If they lose that too it will be an obstructionist Rep minority. After that Republican insurgents in the woods - or something.

Much like Republican talk radio despite the fact that they currently control everything. They have to stay relavent.

[weasel82]

Much like Republican talk radio despite the fact that they currently control everything. They have to stay relavent. [/quote]

Someone needs to create a counter-balance to the mainstream media...

[Warriorbird]

:snickers:

[Sean of the Thread]

::lightning bolt::

[Gan]

Originally posted by Jorddyn

Please keep in mind that he is to the Democrats what Rush is to the Republicans - someone who makes a few good points, and holds the hearts of extremists, but for the most part embarrasses the party.

Jorddyn

And yet people still feel the need to quote him/them, support them, listen to their shows and buy their books/movies. Makes you wonder if said viewpoints are closer to the heart of the extremists than realized. :!:

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Ganalon
And yet people still feel the need to quote him/them,

As I said, they both have valid points from time to time.


support them,

I don't think there are a whole lot of moderates who are huge supporters of either.


listen to their shows and buy their books/movies.

I've listened to Rush. I've seen F911. Both were worth my time for various reasons. Just because I listen to what they say doesn't mean I buy into it. I find that it helps me remain educated on what other people believe, plus it opens my eyes to differing viewpoints.

Quite honestly, I'm just sick of everything being childish. "Libruls are stupidheads. Neocons are buttheads. Dems do this. Republicans do that. Mommy, he looked at me funny!"

This isn't third grade. This is the country that we all are lucky enough to live in, and I find it to be a much better place when I can have an intelligent discussion regarding the opinions of Michael Moore or Rush with one of their fans, and don't have to resort to "Yea, well, he's fat!" or "Yea, well, he's a junkie!"


Jorddyn, slight rant

P.S. The rant wasn't directed at you. You just happened to remind me of something that really annoys me.

[ElanthianSiren]

I'll leave Bob to comment on Mr. Moore's mutilation of whole punctuation aspects of the English language. :gawk:

-M

hint: somewhere a comma God is crying.

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Warriorbird

Of course, realistically even a Dem in the white house wont shut him up. Then everything will be the fault of the republican controlled congress. If they lose that too it will be an obstructionist Rep minority. After that Republican insurgents in the woods - or something.

Much like Republican talk radio despite the fact that they currently control everything. They have to stay relavent.

You are probably better versed on Rep talk radio than me.

I used to work for a pretty liberal guy - and one day we're in his car and his preset is on Rush. The rest of the team is sort of confused by this. He listens to Rush? Wha? But I smile and say - Naturally. its more fun to listen to people you disagree with. Why nod your head to people who think the exact same you do? Aside from which, theres nothing to learn that way.

So by that same logic, I dont often listen to conservative radio.

Even with this Moore passage above. I may trash him for being a one-song band, but even he does have some valid points. Hes far from the only one saying the rescue efforts here have been less than stellar.

Do I think its cool to trash the president for being on vacation during a crisis? Hell no. If the head of an organization cant staff to handle a crisis without them then they havent been delgating well. No one, not even a president should be a single point of failure.

[Warriorbird]

Makes sense, Landrion. I can see that definitely contributing to me listening to the talk station I do... apart from the fact that they're the best minute by minute local news source.

[Showal]

Moore has some valid points but he's quite the business man. He exploits poor people and the people he defends to promote his movies and books as much as he does for his ideas. He has an agenda. I haven't been able to decide whether that agenda is to be an obnoxious fat ass who has to criticize everything or has something to do with what he actually believes is right. I hate how he pretends he cares ... but leaves the cameras rolling. He's obnoxious, at best. I really find him to be a coward.

I do agree with a few of the things he says. I don't think he uses the right examples to prove his points. He twists truths and manipulates facts to make himself look correct, but I think he ends up looking more like an asshole (just the pink part).

[Terminator X]

I have never known Michael Moore to twist truth. In Farenheit 9-11, there is factual, truthful video footage documenting the stupified expression upon GWB's face as he continues for around an hour to read a children's book to kids in a Florida class room whilst terrorists continually attacked our country. That is both fact and truth (the documentary aspect being filmed via means of video footage.)

Now, to say that Moore's narrative comments about how during the time King George II sat about stupified, that he was, in fact thinking, "Maybe I should have listened to intelligence memos and not taken such long vacations to my ranch," although probably extremely accurate, do not reflect actual proof nor truth and can be assumed as opinionated jargon.

Michael Moore does a very good job at NOT twisting the truth and I am glad, at this time, that he is one of the very few people to have the nuts to "complain" about some very real and negligent things our excuse for a president has done in his sad career, including this latest series of debaucheries. I heartily applaud his effort to stand in the face of naysayers; conservative, liberal and apathetic alike.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Terminator X
I have never known Michael Moore to twist truth. In Farenheit 9-11, there is factual, truthful video footage documenting the stupified expression upon GWB's face as he continues for around an hour to read a children's book to kids in a Florida class room whilst terrorists continually attacked our country. That is both fact and truth (the documentary aspect being filmed via means of video footage.)

Now, to say that Moore's narrative comments about how during the time King George II sat about stupified, that he was, in fact thinking, "Maybe I should have listened to intelligence memos and not taken such long vacations to my ranch," although probably extremely accurate, do not reflect actual proof nor truth and can be assumed as opinionated jargon.

Michael Moore does a very good job at NOT twisting the truth and I am glad, at this time, that he is one of the very few people to have the nuts to "complain" about some very real and negligent things our excuse for a president has done in his sad career, including this latest series of debaucheries. I heartily applaud his effort to stand in the face of naysayers; conservative, liberal and apathetic alike.

Uhm if you want to think that.. I guess whatever makes you happy!

Canadian Bacon had more factual information in it then any of his so called "documentaries".

P.s Michael Moore directed that GEM! I <3 John Candy.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Xyelin]

[Gan]

Originally posted by Terminator X
I have never known Michael Moore to twist truth. In Farenheit 9-11, there is factual, truthful video footage documenting the stupified expression upon GWB's face as he continues for around an hour to read a children's book to kids in a Florida class room whilst terrorists continually attacked our country. That is both fact and truth (the documentary aspect being filmed via means of video footage.)

Now, to say that Moore's narrative comments about how during the time King George II sat about stupified, that he was, in fact thinking, "Maybe I should have listened to intelligence memos and not taken such long vacations to my ranch," although probably extremely accurate, do not reflect actual proof nor truth and can be assumed as opinionated jargon.

Michael Moore does a very good job at NOT twisting the truth and I am glad, at this time, that he is one of the very few people to have the nuts to "complain" about some very real and negligent things our excuse for a president has done in his sad career, including this latest series of debaucheries. I heartily applaud his effort to stand in the face of naysayers; conservative, liberal and apathetic alike.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

breathe..........

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the laugh.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Terminator X
I have never known Michael Moore to twist truth.In Bowling for Columbine, he flat out lies several times.


Including to a man with Alzheimer's about his (the man's) past. If hearing that doesn't make you think Michael Moore is a fucking douchebag piece of shit, then I dunno what would.


I don't recall much truth manipulation in Fahrenheit 9-11. But to give Moore this sort of mythic whistle-blower status is a bit much. I learned more about the issues he raised from this forum alone.

[Warriorbird]

What's more insightful is who digs up the documentation on said "lies."

It's telling regarding each documentary.

[Terminator X]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Terminator X
I have never known Michael Moore to twist truth.In Bowling for Columbine, he flat out lies several times.


Including to a man with Alzheimer's about his (the man's) past. If hearing that doesn't make you think Michael Moore is a fucking douchebag piece of shit, then I dunno what would.


I don't recall much truth manipulation in Fahrenheit 9-11. But to give Moore this sort of mythic whistle-blower status is a bit much. I learned more about the issues he raised from this forum alone.

1) Heston was very much not in any latent stage of Alzheimers upon that documentary.

2) Anything I see on video camera, I will not at all believe is subjective. If you want to argue that body replacements for popular Moore-targets such as Heston and Bush were auditioned out before they made a few uncanny camera appearances, be my guest to believe that as such.

My favorite kind of truths, are Moore truths, if you will. These are the kind of truths that are irrefutable because he does have a well-armed recording crew/equipment with him.

A Michael Moore documentary on the sun's being bright and hot would be a twisted truth perpetrated by personal liberal agenda.

Again, I love this guy, and I love to see people making spins off of some of the most simple black-and-white scenarios that he often lays forth.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Terminator X]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
In Bowling for Columbine, he flat out lies several times.
The real question is how many times he flat out tells the truth? We can count how many times he lies but... no one has answered that other question yet. :shrug:

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
In Bowling for Columbine, he flat out lies several times.
The real question is how many times he flat out tells the truth? We can count how many times he lies but... no one has answered that other question yet. :shrug:

It is hard to count how many times he tells truth isn't it..

[Terminator X]

The part when Moore shows his pretty darn factual, real and truthful N.R.A. ID Card to Heston was a truthful fucking-pwning and an amusing fucking-pwning at that.

"Yeah, I've been a member for about 20 years..." How about them apples? :D

Anyway, I'm not sure if discussing other Michael Moore events is considered :offtopic: to the original post...

[DeV]

Originally posted by Xyelin
It is hard to count how many times he tells truth isn't it.. You tell me... I don't have much of an opinion on Moore but I always find it interesting that people always mention the fact that he's lied numerous times in his documentaries but they never shed any light on the truths. Just a thought was all.


Terminator is correct. :yes:

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by DeV]

[Warriorbird]

The truth hurts.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
The truth hurts.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to upset you when I said Candian Bacon was the only film that had any facts in it.

[Warriorbird]

I liked Roger & Me the best. I'm not quite getting how I'm supposed to be offended.

:chuckles:

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I liked Roger & Me the best. I'm not quite getting how I'm supposed to be offended.

:chuckles:

:lightning bolt:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by DeV
The real question is how many times he flat out tells the truth?Uhhh let's see. The time he said war is bad (war is very bad). The time he said 9/11 was bad (9/11 was very bad). The time he said kids getting shot is bad (kids getting shot is very bad). Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty others.
Originally posted by Terminator X
1) Heston was very much not in any latent stage of Alzheimers upon that documentary.:rolleyes:
Anything I see on video camera, I will not at all believe is subjective.Who said anything about subjectivity? The guy lies. It's hard to tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Heston held a pro-gun rally after the Kayla shooting. ------- LIE
Heston maliciously held a pro-gun rally after the Columbine shooting. ------- LIE
Michael Moore walked into a bank and walked out with a gun. --------- LIE

:shrug: The truth will set you free.

[CrystalTears]

If he lies, then fine. Lie in your movies. Just don't call them documentaries.

Documentaries are supposed to be facts, yes? Well mixing in lies with truths do not make a documentary. He can call them regular movies if he wants, however he calls them whatever he wants to suit.

People were asking that he return his Oscar for Bowling for Columbine since he said once that it was never meant to be a documentary, it's just a story he's telling. Oh now it's a story. Get it straight. If you're going to preach that it's a documentary, fill it with facts and don't twist the truths to match your view.

Let's take Bowling for Columbine. First of all going into Heston's home and insulting him was way off base. Screwing up the facts to him was also way off base. Making it seem that days after the murder of a little girl he went to the same town for a convention, showing him off as a heartless bastard was screwed up. Nevermind that the conventions usually entail a lot more than a regular speech and get together. The selling of guns and other functions were cancelled due to the events that had happened there but the convention was planned and went on as scheduled, and certainly did not happen "days" after the event. It happened a few months afterwards.

Aside from the lies, he's just obnoxious. Covering another part of a crime scene and all he can do is be an ass and take up space with the cops, bitching about the smog. :rolleyes: Or when he approached Dick Clark because he helps people get jobs for the welfare program, and twists THAT story to show that her working kept her away from her child. Don't even get me started on that aspect.

He can express his ideas all he wants, just don't mislead... again.. and call them documentaries.

[Edited on 9/7/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by DeV
The real question is how many times he flat out tells the truth?Uhhh let's see. The time he said war is bad (war is very bad). The time he said 9/11 was bad (9/11 was very bad). The time he said kids getting shot is bad (kids getting shot is very bad). Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty others.
Originally posted by Terminator X
1) Heston was very much not in any latent stage of Alzheimers upon that documentary.:rolleyes:
Anything I see on video camera, I will not at all believe is subjective.Who said anything about subjectivity? The guy lies. It's hard to tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Heston held a pro-gun rally after the Kayla shooting. ------- LIE
Heston maliciously held a pro-gun rally after the Columbine shooting. ------- LIE
Michael Moore walked into a bank and walked out with a gun. --------- LIE

:shrug: The truth will set you free.

Cool you picked particulars. Now state the facts that show these are lies since you think they are.

[CrystalTears]

Kayla's death - February 29

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/02/29/school.shooting.04/

Heston's rally - October 17 (trying to find the link for this)

Moore states in his "documentary" that the convention took place 48 hours after her death. He put a news clipping as a flash screen to show this, however he did it fast enough so that you can't see the rest of it that states "48-hours after Kayla Rolland is pronounced dead, Bill Clinton is on The Today Show telling a sympathetic Katie Couric, "Maybe this tragic death will help."

For the Columbine murders, the NRA convention was cancelled.

http://www.centeronline.org/knowledge/article.cfm?ID=992&


For instance, in April 1999, the whole country was shocked by the horrific shootings at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. In an ironic twist, the National Rifle Association (NRA), Fairfax, Virginia, which advocates gun ownership and liberal gun laws, was scheduled to hold its convention and trade show in Denver only days after the shootings. With Denver Mayor Wellington Webb urging the NRA to cancel the event, and a grieving community in no mood for confrontation, the association canceled its gun show and dramatically scaled back its meeting.

[Edited on 9/7/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Warriorbird]

"Documentaries are supposed to be facts, yes? Well mixing in lies with truths do not make a documentary."

Curious. Tell Fox to stop claiming to be fair and balanced and I'll go whoop Moore's ass.

[CrystalTears]

If you can show me where Fox has lied, then you can go do whatever the hell you want.

[Warriorbird]

No no. Not lied. Been, "Fair and balanced."

[CrystalTears]

Well then don't quote me and mention fair and balanced when I'm talking about lies. Straight up lies.

[Warriorbird]

It's a gimmick.

You wouldn't like them if they stuck to "truths" either. They also wouldn't sell as well.

Think of it on a level similar to reality tv.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Warriorbird]

[CrystalTears]

Right, they don't do as well as his because they make documentaries to state facts and information. It's not merely for shock and to make money.

I prefer documentaries be about facts, thank you, or they are no longer documentaries, just regular movies just for entertainment value.

Don't bring down true documentaries just because you like his work and he doesn't know how to put them in the right genre.

Edited because I can't spell this early in the morning.

[Edited on 9/7/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Warriorbird]

Curiously enough, March of the Penguins is doing very well indeed. I don't think the studio would've been as brave without Fahrenheit.

[Back]

Michael Moore is nothing more than a messenger people like to try and kill.

People like Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Riely and Karl Rove are the real liars and hate mongers.

[Warriorbird]

Fahrenheit 9-11 may've made 100 million but Swift Boat Veterans for Truth got America. I'd say Hannity and Spaeth did a lot better than Moore.


[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Warriorbird]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by DeV
The real question is how many times he flat out tells the truth?Uhhh let's see. The time he said war is bad (war is very bad). The time he said 9/11 was bad (9/11 was very bad). The time he said kids getting shot is bad (kids getting shot is very bad). Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty others. I'm enlightened but not convinced. Nice try. :saint:

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Backlash
Michael Moore is nothing more than a messenger people like to try and kill.

People like Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Riely and Karl Rove are the real liars and hate mongers.

If you really believe that then you are clown, for real.

You could make a living with a traveling side show.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Hulkein]

[weasel82]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"Documentaries are supposed to be facts, yes? Well mixing in lies with truths do not make a documentary."

Curious. Tell Fox to stop claiming to be fair and balanced and I'll go whoop Moore's ass.


Well, I would suggest that Hannity and Colmes represents 'balance' and I wouldn't suggest Greta Van Susteren to the epitomy of conservatism...

I will admit that they definitely have more conservatives displaying their views on there, but again, you had many liberal talk show hosts viewing their opinions long before that Fox channel ever came out.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by weasel82]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by DeV
I'm enlightened but not convinced. Nice try. :saint: There are times when you say something, and I have no freaking idea what you're talking about. It's like you're trying to get me to say something, or bring up something? I don't know.

link for CT: http://www.freep.com/news/politics/zero18_20001018.htm

link for the bank thing:
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030406/ANSWERMAN/304060303
SOMEONE is lying. We already know Michael Moore has flat out lied at least twice, whereas Jan Jacobson is some random chick from the boonies with no credibility. You be the judge.

The convention at Columbine was not cancelled, because it would be against the law to cancel the annual national meeting for a national organization. Every part that possibly could have been cancelled was.

I don't want Michael Moore to get beat up, I just want a very large, noticeable disclaimer put on the front of all his films and books that quotes him as saying "No, I'm not fair" and "But you know, look, this is a book of political humor. ... How can there be inaccuracy in comedy?"

edit: I must add that it is possible in the cases involving Charlton Heston that Michael Moore was simply grossly mistaken. However, the aforementioned "48 hours" fiasco shows deliberate falsification by someone on his staff, and I consider it unlikely in the extreme that Michael Moore wouldn't watch his own product.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Latrinsorm]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by DeV
I'm enlightened but not convinced. Nice try. :saint: There are times when you say something, and I have no freaking idea what you're talking about. Kinda like your reply to my post questioning the number of truths as opposed to the number of lies. It sounded like something a 12 year old could and probably has come up with at some point. It wasn't an actual reply in my opinion. I really didn't know if you were being serious or not hence my very not serious reply.
It's like you're trying to get me to say something, or bring up something? I don't know.
Lol. I don't know what makes you feel that way. I didn't ask you specifically to reply to my thoughts, you volunteered that information on your own. Not sure what you thought I wanted you to say or bring up since I had no idea you were going to reply in such a manner. Seriously.

[ElanthianSiren]

I still don't see how Moore has outright lied about George W. Bush.

Personally, I couldn't care less about some guy with alzhemers and his gun rallies vs. the president of the United States and Co. (Co includes most branches of the actual U.S. Government). Give me some examples where Moore lied in F-911, and it lends more credibility to the argument that he might be out to slander an innocent president with his latest letter.

In fact, many of the questions in that letter were things that people here have themselves asked and things that the news media has also been asking. Perhaps Moore's function is to act as the Omega dog of the media pack, along with Limbagh, Coulter, and other personnas I find amusing but ridiculous? I will agree that he is an attention whore, however, you don't get very far in entertainment without being one, regaurdless of your chosen branch.

The way I see his movies, and I have not watched them all, is more "This is my opinion, and this is what makes me believe thusly." I suppose then, you can say that Moore's films are much like the 'intelligence' that led us into Iraq, except he has actual media footage that he is willing to share with the public to back them up (ie Bush reading, golfing, and so on).

-M

[CrystalTears]

:lol2: Yeah okay.

[Keller]

To get to a resemblance of topic let's consider the following question:

Would Bush, as Moore implies, have been quicker to react had this tragedy occurred in Kennebunkport? Is a national leader, whose personal concerns no doubt influence his public decisions, subject to criticism for essentially being human?

I don't think there can be any question that Bush would've reacted differently if this tragedy had hit closer to "home". If I see a care accident involving my friends car and a total strangers car and I am in a hurry to class I will no doubt react differently to the two scenarios. What type of expectations should we have for a public official who has these same considerations?

[Keller]

Another question raised by Moore:

Is Moore justified implying that the war in Iraq is somehow related to the lack of support and timely evacuation of N.O? How does one weigh the moral concerns for life in a dire situation (tyranical rule) which comes prior to a dire tragedy (flooded metropolis)?

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Keller
To get to a resemblance of topic let's consider the following question:

Would Bush, as Moore implies, have been quicker to react had this tragedy occurred in Kennebunkport? Is a national leader, whose personal concerns no doubt influence his public decisions, subject to criticism for essentially being human?

I don't think there can be any question that Bush would've reacted differently if this tragedy had hit closer to "home". If I see a care accident involving my friends car and a total strangers car and I am in a hurry to class I will no doubt react differently to the two scenarios. What type of expectations should we have for a public official who has these same considerations?

Actually, with regard to your hypothetical situation, I'd react just as rapidly to a car accident involving strangers as to one involving friends. I'd probably be a lot more upset if I found one of the injured (or dead) to be a friend, but knowing a friend was involved would not effect whether I stopped, or not, nor would it effect the expedience with which I would render aid.

I'm trained as a first responder, so that's what's expected of me. I believe we could say the same of our President, being as how he's the leader of this country. It's not about his interests, or his needs, or his personal feelings. It's about his responsibility.

That said, I must clarify that I do not consider him to be solely responsible for the miserable failures in the Katrina tragedy. As I've said before, the responsibility for failure can be assigned from the ground up, and probably will be over the long haul.

[Warriorbird]

Would Bush, as Moore implies, have been quicker to react had this tragedy occurred in Kennebunkport?

Yes.


Is Moore justified implying that the war in Iraq is somehow related to the lack of support and timely evacuation of N.O?

No.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Keller
Another question raised by Moore:

Is Moore justified implying that the war in Iraq is somehow related to the lack of support and timely evacuation of N.O? How does one weigh the moral concerns for life in a dire situation (tyranical rule) which comes prior to a dire tragedy (flooded metropolis)?

No, with regard to troop levels, as no correlation has been found between a lacking number of troops and the war in Iraq. The war in Iraq has drained funding, however, and for that, yes, I do blame the president.

The war in Iraq was not waged on a humanitarian campaign, and it is not a humanitarian war. It is easy to forget why we went there when the administration keeps putting out new reasons for us to be there, though I regularly read a briefing given by one of the top Generals before the invasion, where he stresses that it is NOT a humanitarian war to remind myself.



Originally posted by Keller
Would Bush, as Moore implies, have been quicker to react had this tragedy occurred in Kennebunkport? Is a national leader, whose personal concerns no doubt influence his public decisions, subject to criticism for essentially being human?

Not in my opinion. He is bad with dealing with crisis in general in my estimation. I didn't expect him to react any faster than letting himself take a few sweeps over the coast before going down and meeting with a handful of people affected by the tragedy for a Photo shoot. Anyway, you need to give this man a few days to absorb what's happening.

-M

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by DeV
Not sure what you thought I wanted you to say or bring up since I had no idea you were going to reply in such a manner.No no, I mean the reply you specifically did to me, not the open question.
It wasn't an actual reply in my opinion.Um ok. You asked what were the truths he told, and I responded with truths he has stated.
Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
I couldn't care less about some guy with alzhemers That explains a lot. :(
Give me some examples where Moore lied in F-911The initial claim was that "I have never known Michael Moore to twist truth." by Terminator. I don't believe Moore lied at any time during F-911, unless he skewed some of the statistics about the Saudis. Plenty of spin to be sure, but no flat out lies that I'm aware of.

I don't understand how people say Bush should have reacted faster, unless the timelines I've seen have been horrendously inaccurate.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
No no, I mean the reply you specifically did to me, not the open question. Well, I replied the way I felt after reading your response. Nothing more to it than that. There is no conspiracy, rest assured.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Warriorbird

Would Bush, as Moore implies, have been quicker to react had this tragedy occurred in Kennebunkport?

Yes.



Are you kidding?

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Xyelin]

[Warriorbird]

Nope. I think it would've struck home more (quite literally). Not a racist thing but a priority thing.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Warriorbird]

[HarmNone]

When there's a category 4 hurricane bopping about in the Gulf, it's not a matter of how quickly you act after the fact. It's a matter of how quickly you get involved and start getting the necessary equipment and manpower on its way to the area of expected impact. If the troops and equipment had been in the northern parts of Mississippi and Louisiana BEFORE the freaking thing hit, we wouldn't be where we are now.

Personally, I don't believe a prudent person would have needed a telephone call from a mayor, or a governer, or anybody else to get those strategies started. All such a person would have needed would be the realization that there's a freaking CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE heading for a major city whose levees are only strong enough to handle a level 4.

[CrystalTears]

The levees were able to handle a category 3 at most (supposedy). Personally I think a heavy rain 3 would have caused just as many problems, unfortunately.

[HarmNone]

I'll disagree with you there, CT, since southern Louisiana gets plenty of those as it is. :(

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
The levees were able to handle a category 3 at most (supposedy). Personally I think a heavy rain 3 would have caused just as many problems, unfortunately.

I agree. The hurricane didn't "blow" the levees over exactly it was the massive amount of rain and run off from the entire region into the lakes that caused the levees to fail.

[HarmNone]

It was the massive surge, coupled with the rain, that caused the levees to collapse. Heavy rains aren't uncommon in that part of Louisiana. However, the addition of the surge was bound to do what it did. The bloody thing was nearly 30 feet high! That one hell of a lot of water!

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Personally I think a heavy rain 3 would have caused just as many problems, unfortunately. That's sort of a bold and baseless statement.

[Leetahkin]

I read this thread and the closely related other, and decided to post here for no particular reason. I try to stay out of the political folders.

I have heard from a few radio stations this morning that Bush personally called the Mayor (or Gov., not sure which) and asked if they would declare NO a state of emergency so he could release money for help.

Yet in the other thread, someone said the Mayor or Gov. sent Bush a letter asking him, but he didn't respond until a few days later?

Jesus, I'm confused now.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"Michael Moore makes me sick. "

Michael Savage makes me sick.

I completely agree with both of those statements. I also find Rush Limbaugh to be a retard.. as well as Hillary Clinton.

What's the point?

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Personally I think a heavy rain 3 would have caused just as many problems, unfortunately. That's sort of a bold and baseless statement.

Why? What is it with today that I can't express my opinion? I didn't state any facts. That area and the levees were vulnerable to category 4 hurricanes. I'm saying I felt that a really heavy rain category 3 could do as much damage.

Giving categories to hurricanes has always been strange to me because all they are rating the winds and the rain and possible tornadoes being carried with it are factors that aren't always taken into consideration, and can be the elements that turn a hurricane from barely anything to really bad.

[Parkbandit]

If you want to point to the problem in New Orleans.. visit their own plan for such emergencies.. then count how many of those things were not followed.

But hey.. why blame the Mayor or city big wigs of New Orleans.. when we have the devil in Mr. Bush.

I personally believe that the Mayor and Governor there should be run out of town for their piss poor job of emergency management.

[Warriorbird]

What's the point?

The point was that those type of people generally aren't worth worrying about. I don't lose sleep because of Michael Savage. I've actually had two fairly amusing experiences calling his show.

[Warriorbird]

If you want to point to the problem in New Orleans.. visit their own plan for such emergencies.. then count how many of those things were not followed.

-Parkbandit

This set of spin curiously neglects anything to do with the levies or the Army Corps of Engineers. I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Back]

Originally posted by Nobody Cares
I read this thread and the closely related other, and decided to post here for no particular reason. I try to stay out of the political folders.

I have heard from a few radio stations this morning that Bush personally called the Mayor (or Gov., not sure which) and asked if they would declare NO a state of emergency so he could release money for help.

Yet in the other thread, someone said the Mayor or Gov. sent Bush a letter asking him, but he didn't respond until a few days later?

Jesus, I'm confused now.

This article (http://mediamatters.org/items/200509060011) discusses the mayor and governor’s requests and how the media (AP in particular) misreported, and still misreports, what really happened.

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

Why? Well, primairly because you'd presented no facts to back your statement that a disaster of those proportions would have been caused by such an intense heavy rain (3).
What is it with today that I can't express my opinion?I'm sorry you feel that I insenuated you couldn't express your opinon as my reply says nothing of the sort. I should have elaborated though to be fair.
I didn't state any facts. Hence, my reply.
That area and the levees were vulnerable to category 4 hurricanes. I'm saying I felt that a really heavy rain category 3 could do as much damage.If that were true it simply would go to show just how unprepared they were for a tremdously heavy rainfall; not even a hurricane. We would also not be astounded at the amount of natural disaster that has been caused so far. That is not the case however.


Giving categories to hurricanes has always been strange to me because all they are rating the winds and the rain and possible tornadoes being carried with it are factors that aren't always taken into consideration, and can be the elements that turn a hurricane from barely anything to really bad. Don't you think if this were the case the local/state/federal government would have been doing more prior to as well as after just regarding the upgrade of the levees to ensure the outcome of such an event not resemble what we have seen in a "just in case" scenario?

[DeV]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Heavy rains aren't uncommon in that part of Louisiana. :yeahthat: The one time I visited the Shreveport area there was a massive rainfall which I was told time and again was a common occurance. And this was not even New Orleans which I'm thinking is used to much worse.

[CrystalTears]

Sorry. I figured me saying "I think" represented me giving my feelings on the matter. My bad for not starting my post with "MY OPINION!!!!"

The levees were predicted to stand hurricane category 3, am I wrong? Was that not stated? So being that I've encounted really fucked up rainy hurricane category 3's (and I mentioned that before, not sure why you keep on bringing up just regular heavy rains as those that come with a hurricane is a different story altogether) that have caused just as much damage as a 4 or 5, I thought I could give my view on the matter. My bad. I should state facts for my.. uh.. opinions next time. :?:

[Edited on 9/7/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by DeV
There is no conspiracy, rest assured.That's exactly what a person who was IN THE CONSPIRACY would say. I'm on to you. :help:

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Sorry. I figured me saying "I think" represented me giving my feelings on the matter. My bad for not starting my post with "MY OPINION!!!!"
You know what, you're right. You are absolutely correct. In fact, I am wrong on all accounts. I was wrong to challenge your OPINION!!!!! because that is exactly what it was, an opinion which is in essence, not fact. Again I say, you are correct CT. Have a really great day. Don't let this get to you too much. After all, this is just my opinion regarding your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. :)

[CrystalTears]

Don't patronize me. I was giving my opinion and you said it was a bold and baseless statement that I should give facts. I think it was odd to ask facts for opinions. I'm not taking anything to heart or badly or anything of the sort, but being told to present facts for my opinion just totally made no sense to me.

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
The levees were predicted to stand hurricane category 3, am I wrong? No
Was that not stated? Yes
So being that I've encounted really fucked up rainy hurricane category 3's (and I mentioned that before, not sure why you keep on bringing up just regular heavy rains as those that come with a hurricane is a different story altogether) that have caused just as much damage as a 4 or 5, I thought I could give my view on the matter. Granted... you didn't say that before but now I know.
My bad. I should state facts for my.. uh.. opinions next time. :?:
Just the really bold ones is all. Heh. j/k

I've said my piece and concede to you.

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Don't patronize me. I was giving my opinion and you said it was a bold and baseless statement that I should give facts. I think it was odd to ask facts for opinions. I'm not taking anything to heart or badly or anything of the sort, but being told to present facts for my opinion just totally made no sense to me. What would it take for you to realize that I am DEAD serious? I'd do almost anything, I think.

And I am not patronizing you. You don't have to continue explaining that your opinion was just that. You were right.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by DeV
There is no conspiracy, rest assured.That's exactly what a person who was IN THE CONSPIRACY would say. I'm on to you. :help: I'm on to you too. :P