View Full Version : LOL: Pat Robertson
Terminator X
08-23-2005, 02:31 PM
Pat Robertson Calls for Assassination of Hugo Chavez.
Televangelist Calls Venezuelan President a 'Terrific and Immenent Danger' to the United States.
VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. (Aug. 22) - Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson called on Monday for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, calling him a "terrific and imminent danger" to the United States.
Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition of America and a former presidential candidate, said on "The 700 Club" it was the United States' duty to stop Chavez from making Venezuela a "launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism."
Chavez has emerged as one of the most outspoken critics of President Bush, accusing the United States of conspiring to topple his government and possibly backing plots to assassinate him. U.S. officials have called the accusations ridiculous.
"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it," Robertson said. "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop."
Electronic pages and a message to a Robertson spokeswoman were not immediately returned Monday evening.
Venezuela is the fifth largest oil exporter and a major supplier of oil to the United States. The CIA estimates that U.S. markets absorb almost 59 percent of Venezuela's total exports.
Venezuela's government has demanded in the past that the United States crack down on Cuban and Venezuelan "terrorists" in Florida who they say are conspiring against Chavez.
Robertson accused the United States of failing to act when Chavez was briefly overthrown in 2002.
"We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability," Robertson said.
"We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator," he continued. "It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."
:lol2:
Beat me to it T-Rex. I was just about to make a topic about this to discuss it.
Its the height of hypocrisy for Pat Robertson, preacher, so-called man of God, to call for Chavez’s death. If Robertson isn’t smoking crack, then he should be.
Terminator X
08-23-2005, 02:36 PM
It's really funny...
...but then you have to realize it's really, really, really not funny... and sad, too.
Warriorbird
08-23-2005, 02:37 PM
Considering Jim Baker's record, Robertson could well be smoking crack.
That's real Christian like behavior that all the children of the world should be emulating.
:duh:
Latrinsorm
08-23-2005, 03:04 PM
NOT THE COMMIES!!! :help:
4a6c1
08-23-2005, 03:07 PM
:heart: :heart: :heart:
omg. i love evangelists.
But they got it all wrong. I think when Jesus said, 'GO AND BE FISHERS OF MEN' he was telling them to go and open gaybars on the Bay.
As an aside. Venezuela used to be the most awesome petro export. I hate what they've done with the economy now.
[Edited on 8-23-2005 by JihnasSpirit]
Originally posted by JihnasSpirit
As an aside. Venezuela used to be the most awesome petro export. I hate what they've done with the economy now.
Just curious what it is they have done that you hate so much and why?
Warriorbird
08-23-2005, 03:41 PM
:shrugs: If a certain cocky Sec State hadn't been quite as much of herself, a lot of our problems might've been diplomatically settled.
Originally posted by Warriorbird
:shrugs: If a certain cocky Sec State hadn't been quite as much of herself, a lot of our problems might've been diplomatically settled.
I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess that whoever you are referring to is a Republican...
4a6c1
08-23-2005, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Backlash
Originally posted by JihnasSpirit
As an aside. Venezuela used to be the most awesome petro export. I hate what they've done with the economy now.
Just curious what it is they have done that you hate so much and why?
If your a foreigner interested in trade its very hard to do straight business. The big guns have no accountability to law enforcement, IMHO. Prices have soared in recent years. Its hard to set up shop and start something on your own.... and you never know if what your buying is dirty. Its just a notnice place to be right now, truthfully. Or I could be whining. Idunno. Its just what I've seen.
Atlanteax
08-23-2005, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Backlash
Originally posted by JihnasSpirit
As an aside. Venezuela used to be the most awesome petro export. I hate what they've done with the economy now.
Just curious what it is they have done that you hate so much and why?
She was refering to Chavez's absolutely horrible mismanagement of the Venezuela's economy, and oil industry.
To make a long story sort, in his desire to purge the country of any opposition to his dictatorship (which it is), he removed key individuals from Venz' oil company, where understaffing and inept replacements contributed to some permanent structural degradation to the country's existing oil fields and infrastructure.
Meanwhile, he is bleeding it dry to fund his social programs (to ensure that the poor remains loyal to him) and little progress has been made to secure future oil production, so instead of being able to maintain or increase export levels, it has dropped something like 30-40% (around that) from what it should be producing.
The next result is that Venz's economy is potentially crippled for the foreseeable future until Chavez is replaced/eliminated.
This is also why Chavez does whatever he can to encourage higher oil prices (such as calling for production quota cuts, where the irony is that quota cuts would not affect Venz which is already suffering from inadequate production) and is also why he is seeking "back taxes" on foreign oil companies (to make up for the lost revenued caused by the drastic decline in production).
.
Pat Robertson is probably aware of the fundamental fact in that if Chavez had not come around, and Venezuela was able to maintain or increase its production in the past few years (as opposed to the declined just described), oil prices, particularly for the U.S. (as Venezuela is the closest major U.S. supplier) would be nowhere near as high as they would be now.
Aside from the Iraq situation, the primary reason why oil prices are as high as they are now, is because worldwide production is unable to keep up with worldwide demand. Prices will start dropping significantly in the next few months due to the fall season, and potential resolution for Iraq's new government (Constitution process).
Warriorbird
08-23-2005, 04:43 PM
I guess you'd term it mismanagement. His country loves him. He's figured out how to hit America where it hurts.
Atlanteax
08-23-2005, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Warriorbird
I guess you'd term it mismanagement. His country loves him. He's figured out how to hit America where it hurts.
Umm, no... his country does not love him.
Of course you would conviently overlook how he has bribed the poor with social programs, and how he is arming his followers for a "volunteer militia" that would number in the millions.
Seems like a run-up to an official dictatorshop to me.
The primary problem is that the opposition is unable to unite against Chavez, even if it's in their best interests. They let their own internal scabbles get the better of them.
There's a decently strong dislike of Chavez in Venezuela... the populace just cannot do anything about it.
Warriorbird
08-23-2005, 04:50 PM
The poor ARE his country. Besides... if he hadn't raised prices on us... would you care?
No.
He'd be a "good petroleum importer."
You may have also noticed that despite the issues with Venezuela... energy companies are making massive profits.
[Edited on 8-23-2005 by Warriorbird]
4a6c1
08-23-2005, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Warriorbird
The poor ARE his country. Besides... if he hadn't raised prices on us... would you care?
No
Atlanteax
08-23-2005, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Warriorbird
The poor ARE his country. Besides... if he hadn't raised prices on us... would you care?
No.
He'd be a "good petroleum importer."
You may have also noticed that despite the issues with Venezuela... energy companies are making massive profits.
[Edited on 8-23-2005 by Warriorbird]
Venezuelans would all be better off if it was not for Chavez's "mismanagement".
There would be a larger pie for them now, and a healthy growth rate into the near future would be ensured.
Meanwhile Venz' economy will be at considerable risk once oil prices fall.
I think he is arming his followers because he knows there'll be significant civil disorder when the social programs are no longer able to be as well funded due to further loss in oil revenue when prices collapse from their current highs.
Skirmisher
08-23-2005, 05:11 PM
They both are nuts. :nutty:
Ravenstorm
08-23-2005, 05:12 PM
Of course, this isn't about Chavez being a nice guy or not.
This is about an evangelical Christian, televised on the Christian Broadcasting Network, calling for the assassination of another human being.
How... revealing.
Raven
Artha
08-23-2005, 05:17 PM
Televangelists suck.
Well, first, I consider Chavez a modern hero for bucking the capitalist trend and actually using his countries resources to help his countries people. Caracas had some trouble a couple of years ago with an oil strike that seriously hurt the economy but has since been recovereing. Guess who organized the strike? The business elite.
Chavez is no dictator. He is a democratically elected president. He has actually been elected twice because of a referendum in the middle of his term causing people to vote again. Both times saw him with what could be considered a landslide majority. He’s been elected democraticallty and the CIA factbook lists Venezuela as a federalist republic.
The pure rhetoric out of Washington has done absolutely nothing to strengthen ties with our hemisphere’s neighbors. In fact, you hear very little out of the US that advocates partnerships with countries in our hemisphere. Most of it is “if you don’t like it fuck off”.
Pat Robertson has really made the US look bad. Really really bad at a time when we already look like shit.
Some Rogue
08-23-2005, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Of course, this isn't about Chavez being a nice guy or not.
This is about an evangelical Christian, televised on the Christian Broadcasting Network, calling for the assassination of another human being.
How... revealing.
Raven
About as revealing as your post. You like to paint all Christians one way because one guy says something off the wall. That would be like me saying all gay men are child molesters because NAMBLA spews the crap they do. That statement obviously doesn't wash and neither does yours.
Skirmisher
08-23-2005, 05:42 PM
It's Pat Robertson.
I'm really not overly concerned about what he says.
Wouldn't it be great if they each sent their own wetworks teams and rubbed each other out?
:devilsmile:
Artha
08-23-2005, 05:47 PM
About as revealing as your post. You like to paint all Christians one way because one guy says something off the wall. That would be like me saying all gay men are child molesters because NAMBLA spews the crap they do. That statement obviously doesn't wash and neither does yours.
Or that all socialists are nazis, because hey...national german socialist worker's party!
Originally posted by Some Rogue
Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Of course, this isn't about Chavez being a nice guy or not.
This is about an evangelical Christian, televised on the Christian Broadcasting Network, calling for the assassination of another human being.
How... revealing.
Raven
About as revealing as your post. You like to paint all Christians one way because one guy says something off the wall. That would be like me saying all gay men are child molesters because NAMBLA spews the crap they do. That statement obviously doesn't wash and neither does yours.
I didn't see his reply as an attack on *all* Christians in the least. What he said was accurate and if not, what about it is untrue?
Hulkein
08-23-2005, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Backlash
Well, first, I consider Chavez a modern hero
lol
Pat Robertson has really made the US look bad
Pat Robertson made Pat Robertson look bad.
[Edited on 8-23-2005 by Hulkein]
Renian
08-23-2005, 06:56 PM
Assassination = murder.
Bible sez: Thou shalt not murder.
Pat Robertson = Dumbass who doesn't know the Ten Commandments.
Honestly, even people who aren't Christians know that one.
Ravenstorm
08-23-2005, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Hulkein
Pat Robertson made Pat Robertson look bad.
When a famous mouthpiece for a group that claims to have gotten Bush reelected says something like that, it makes the US look bad too. Much like how Islamic clerics calling for violence make Arabic states look bad.
Raven
Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Originally posted by Hulkein
Pat Robertson made Pat Robertson look bad.
When a famous mouthpiece for a group that claims to have gotten Bush reelected says something like that, it makes the US look bad too. Much like how Islamic clerics calling for violence make Arabic states look bad.
Raven
I'm sure Robertson would love to claim credit for Bush's re-election. Thats just him wanting another 15 minutes of fame/controversy.
Robertson is part of why I'm not a fan of organized religion in any sort. And eventually his kind will be their eventual downfall, in my opinion, once the folks who blindly follow idiots like that either wake up or die of old age.
Sadly yes I agree that Robertson's rhetoric is just as imflammitory and idiotic as the radical muslim clerics screaming for blood themselves. Is there a law against it? Endangerment speech perhaps? I dont know. So Venezuela's request to have the US 'throw the book' at Robertson probably will not be granted.
I'm just amazed that there are folks, on both sides of the political spectrum, that do their best to make the US look bad just to get their 15 minutes of fame.
:banghead:
Hulkein
08-23-2005, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Originally posted by Hulkein
Pat Robertson made Pat Robertson look bad.
When a famous mouthpiece for a group that claims to have gotten Bush reelected says something like that, it makes the US look bad too. Much like how Islamic clerics calling for violence make Arabic states look bad.
Raven
If a leader of another country says one thing and a random, insane, radical Cleric says another, it doesn't make me think down on the country.
Ravenstorm
08-23-2005, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Ganalon
I'm sure Robertson would love to claim credit for Bush's re-election. Thats just him wanting another 15 minutes of fame/controversy.
The "moral majority" loudly claims credit for getting Bush reelected. Karl Rove clearly proclaimed how he would get their vote and Dubya would get reelected. Four million evangelical votes and Rove did everything he could to get them. Does anyone who watches the news lately think they aren't a force in politics? So yes, it reflects on the US.
Unfortunately.
Raven
I dont consider Pat Robertson the 'voice' of the moral majority. So his/your claim that 'he' got Bush re-elected is inaccurate in my eyes.
His credibility is suspect to begin with.
Warriorbird
08-23-2005, 09:34 PM
Precisely. Having spoken with some conservative folks about it... despite what he may lay claim to, Robertson is not the biggest fan of Bush... or Rove. Robertson may be being Rove-ian here... acting with multiple purpouses.
Ravenstorm
08-23-2005, 09:58 PM
I didn't say he was the sole face of the moral majority but he is certainly one of them and a very vocal member. He is one of a small number of people that those outside the US would recognize.
Raven
Hulkein
08-23-2005, 10:10 PM
You really think most Venezuelans had any idea who Pat Robertson was before this comment?
How about the Iraqi's, Iranians, Koreans? You think most of them know who he is?
My guess would be less than 1 percent of any of those countries would know who the hell he was.
Originally posted by Ravenstorm
I didn't say he was the sole face of the moral majority but he is certainly one of them and a very vocal member. He is one of a small number of people that those outside the US would recognize.
Raven
Actually, you did imply just that. And I cant seem to find any mention of Pat Robertson on the moral majority website.
http://www.faithandvalues.us/
Originally posted by Ravenstorm
When a famous mouthpiece for a group that claims to have gotten Bush reelected says something like that, it makes the US look bad too. Much like how Islamic clerics calling for violence make Arabic states look bad.
Raven
Originally posted by Ravenstorm
The "moral majority" loudly claims credit for getting Bush reelected.
Raven
Ravenstorm
08-23-2005, 10:33 PM
Feel free to interpret my comments however you want. I made my point and I'll leave you with two quotes from today's papers describing Robertson. I didn't even need to search since they were right at the top of google news.
The Guardian: America's leading televangelist
The Independent: Pat Robertson, one of the most influential Christian evangelists in the United States
True or not, yes, it will reflect on the US.
Raven
Thanks for sticking with the Facts.
Remember: Accuracy is your friend.
If the world didn’t know who he was before, they now know all about him.
907 articles on Google news 10pm est. Up about 450 from this afternoon around 2pm est.
Ravenstorm
08-23-2005, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Ganalon
Thanks for sticking with the Facts.
Remember: Accuracy is your friend.
My pardon. Replace all mention of the moral majority with the phrase evangelical Christians. I'll choose my wording for extreme rightwing fanatics with more care next time.
Raven
[Edited on 8-24-2005 by Ravenstorm]
Skirmisher
08-23-2005, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Backlash
If the world didn’t know who he was before, they now know all about him.
907 articles on Google news 10pm est. Up about 450 from this afternoon around 2pm est.
That's the sad truth.
I don't think Pat Robertson speaks for any majority, he does have a decent sized following, but more importantly, he has name recognition in this country and therefore the ability to draw press.
If anyone thinks Bush isn't a wee bit ticked at Mr Robertson you should think again.
And if anyone thinks that Hugo Chavez is doing anything less than cartwheels over getting all this press and incredible amount of future ammunition for his anti-US rhetoric you should also think again.
This is the best thing to happen for him. No real threat, but bringing all the sympathy to the heroic little guy standing up to the mean schoolyard bully even if it wasnt the administration making the threat but some cukoo cleric..
Gold mine for Hugo.
Originally posted by Skirmisher
Originally posted by Backlash
If the world didn’t know who he was before, they now know all about him.
907 articles on Google news 10pm est. Up about 450 from this afternoon around 2pm est.
That's the sad truth.
I don't think Pat Robertson speaks for any majority, he does have a decent sized following, but more importantly, he has name recognition in this country and therefore the ability to draw press.
If anyone thinks Bush isn't a wee bit ticked at Mr Robertson you should think again.
And if anyone thinks that Hugo Chavez is doing anything less than cartwheels over getting all this press and incredible amount of future ammunition for his anti-US rhetoric you should also think again.
This is the best thing to happen for him. No real threat, but bringing all the sympathy to the heroic little guy standing up to the mean schoolyard bully even if it wasnt the administration making the threat but some cukoo cleric..
Gold mine for Hugo.
I disagree that this is a good thing for Chavez. Its creating more tension, causing to probably be more paranoid and defensive. I think from our point of view, knowing what we know about the nut-job Roberts that it may seem like a good thing for Chavez, but think of it from his perspective, or anyone’s outside the US.
Ravenstorm
08-23-2005, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by Backlash
I think from our point of view, knowing what we know about the nut-job Roberts that it may seem like a good thing for Chavez, but think of it from his perspective, or anyone’s outside the US.
It is though probably a very good thing for radical Islam. Look! they can cry. The American Chrisitians want to kill anyone who doesn't bow down to America. Great recruiting material there.
Raven
Artha
08-23-2005, 11:50 PM
^ that's funny because they're recruiting people to blow up buses full of Jewesh kids.
Skirmisher
08-23-2005, 11:58 PM
Backlash, you underestimate Chavez if you think he does not understand exactly where Robertson fits into the American politica landscape.
And Yes Raven, I agree, this is exactly the kind of things that the boss psychos use to get weak willed lesser educated psychos all fired up and willing to die to fight the great satan.
Warriorbird
08-24-2005, 08:55 AM
Hilarity ensues:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/23/chavez.gasoline.reut/index.html
Hey. I'm not rich. If he wants to give me cheap gas, that's great.
[Edited on 8-24-2005 by Warriorbird]
Originally posted by Skirmisher
Backlash, you underestimate Chavez if you think he does not understand exactly where Robertson fits into the American politica landscape.
And Yes Raven, I agree, this is exactly the kind of things that the boss psychos use to get weak willed lesser educated psychos all fired up and willing to die to fight the great satan.
Underestimate perhaps... Chavez did down play it in his own response while in Cuba yesterday.
Google News is up to 1400 at 9am est from last night.
London is completing work on laws that extradite clerics who preach hate and it got me thinking about Robertson, and others, who preach hate and how it relates to freedom of speech and all that. I don’t see what London is doing is good in the freedom of speech aspect of it.
All of this reinforces my contention that any man who claims to have a hot-line to his God thus making him better than another man or able to tell another man how to live or what to do is absolute bullshit.
Hulkein
08-24-2005, 10:32 AM
ZOMG TEH GOOGLEZ NEWS IS UP 2 1530482 OH GNOEZ
Originally posted by Backlash
All of this reinforces my contention that any man who claims to have a hot-line to his God thus making him better than another man or able to tell another man how to live or what to do is absolute bullshit. /concur
ElanthianSiren
08-24-2005, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by DeV
Originally posted by Backlash
All of this reinforces my contention that any man who claims to have a hot-line to his God thus making him better than another man or able to tell another man how to live or what to do is absolute bullshit. /concur
one of the most useful points made in this thread -- about any God.
-M
Latrinsorm
08-24-2005, 12:15 PM
Yeah, that unconditional love stuff is total BS.
Skirmisher
08-24-2005, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Yeah, that unconditional love stuff is total BS.
Hmm?
Latrinsorm
08-24-2005, 12:24 PM
My apologies, above post is in reference to:
Originally posted by Backlash
any man who claims to have a hot-line to his God thus making him better than another man or able to tell another man how to live or what to do is absolute bullshit.
weasel82
08-24-2005, 12:25 PM
There is Christianity...a religion of good
Then there are Christians...the people who fuck it all up.
To be human, is to err...but somehow we persecute the entire religion because it is a downright hard thing to follow and a lot of people make it look B-A-D.
4a6c1
08-24-2005, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Latrinsorm
That unconditional love stuff is total BS.
FINALLY. See...I'm right.
:D
ElanthianSiren
08-24-2005, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by weasel82
There is Christianity...a religion of good
Then there are Christians...the people who fuck it all up.
To be human, is to err...but somehow we persecute the entire religion because it is a downright hard thing to follow and a lot of people make it look B-A-D.
No, I think those individuals, like Robertson, who follow hypocritically deserve persecution, not the creator himself/herself. If you're going to be a hypocrit, at least admit that you are one, and you don't care. Don't use God as your smokescreen when it's convenient. If I was God, I'd smite Robertson with the rest of the fundamentalists.
Since I'm human, the best I can do is roll my eyes at what he represents. In the end, that's why these types of individuals actually work in adverse of furthering their cause.
-M
Hulkein
08-24-2005, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
In the end, that's why these types of individuals actually work in adverse of furthering their cause.
-M
That's assuming Robertson's cause is something other than personal fame and wealth.
Originally posted by Hulkein
Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
In the end, that's why these types of individuals actually work in adverse of furthering their cause.
-M
That's assuming Robertson's cause is something other than personal fame and wealth. And unconditional love... it'd be a travesty to forget that one.
ElanthianSiren
08-24-2005, 01:23 PM
Well, if he's a man of God, as he claims, I'd hope it would be. :saint:
-M
weasel82
08-24-2005, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Originally posted by weasel82
There is Christianity...a religion of good
Then there are Christians...the people who fuck it all up.
To be human, is to err...but somehow we persecute the entire religion because it is a downright hard thing to follow and a lot of people make it look B-A-D.
No, I think those individuals, like Robertson, who follow hypocritically deserve persecution, not the creator himself/herself. If you're going to be a hypocrit, at least admit that you are one, and you don't care. Don't use God as your smokescreen when it's convenient. If I was God, I'd smite Robertson with the rest of the fundamentalists.
Since I'm human, the best I can do is roll my eyes at what he represents. In the end, that's why these types of individuals actually work in adverse of furthering their cause.
-M
I agree...
However, you and I don't know what Robertson believes...he may feel he is doing right, but in actuality he is simply mis-guided. Maybe he spoke out of anger (which is pretty stupid to do in public).
I'm not defending him, although I don't care enough to jump all over him either.
He's a person who is essentially ineffective in the greater arena Venezuela/US relations. so who cares...
The people giving his slanted ass all this air time?
Originally posted by Backlash
All of this reinforces my contention that any man who claims to have a hot-line to his God thus making him better than another man or able to tell another man how to live or what to do is absolute bullshit.
Agreed.
Back peddle back peddle back peddle... (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-082405robertson_lat,0,3124245.story?coll=la-tot-promo&track=morenews)
First it was he was “misinterpreted” and never said assassinate.
Then it was that he was ad-libbing at the end of his show.
Now he is apologizing.
Some of the headlines have been hilarious...
SORRY HUGO! I MEANT WAGE WAR!
Evangelist 'hit' call sparks uproar
Mouth too far: Robertson puts his foot in it
Pat catches hell
Pat Robertson Issues A Fatwa
...and on and on.
But the funniest statement ironically comes from Rush Limbaugh.
“Well, Pat, why did you not include Castro?”
weasel82
08-25-2005, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Backlash
Back peddle back peddle back peddle... (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-082405robertson_lat,0,3124245.story?coll=la-tot-promo&track=morenews)
“Well, Pat, why did you not include Castro?”
LOL...That's great!
Originally posted by Backlash
Well, first, I consider Chavez a modern hero for bucking the capitalist trend and actually using his countries resources to help his countries people. Caracas had some trouble a couple of years ago with an oil strike that seriously hurt the economy but has since been recovereing. Guess who organized the strike? The business elite.
Chavez is no dictator. He is a democratically elected president. He has actually been elected twice because of a referendum in the middle of his term causing people to vote again. Both times saw him with what could be considered a landslide majority. He’s been elected democraticallty and the CIA factbook lists Venezuela as a federalist republic.
The pure rhetoric out of Washington has done absolutely nothing to strengthen ties with our hemisphere’s neighbors. In fact, you hear very little out of the US that advocates partnerships with countries in our hemisphere. Most of it is “if you don’t like it fuck off”.
Pat Robertson has really made the US look bad. Really really bad at a time when we already look like shit.
Backlash I have to ask you, do you think Che Guevara is a hero?
No. Interesting guy with an interesting life certainly. I think he is an image thats just trendy right now. Like weariing a t-shirt with the image of a latin revolutionary makes you cool when you go downtown and spend $10 on a Heinekin in a bourgeoisie nightclub.
Hulkein
08-25-2005, 10:15 AM
Haha, I can agree with that post, Backlash.
Love or hate Chavez, Robertson was an idiot for what he said. I have actually watched Robertson's show numerous times and he is the poster child for closed mindedness. I am sure Christ would his shake his head if he was alive.
Here is a question for the lawyers on the board. Did Robertson commit a crime with what he said?
Originally posted by Backlash
No. Interesting guy with an interesting life certainly. I think he is an image thats just trendy right now. Like weariing a t-shirt with the image of a latin revolutionary makes you cool when you go downtown and spend $10 on a Heinekin in a bourgeoisie nightclub.
That and the fact that he singlehandedly executed approximately 100 of castro's political enemies. I love seeing people with those shirts on and they have no idea what he is really about
Warriorbird
08-25-2005, 08:38 PM
I love to see people get on their high horses without knowing much about American involvement in Latin American politics.
With that said, Che wasn't really all that successful a revolutionary, just zealous. I find the people wearing the shirts ridiculous too.
Don't forget cold blooded murderer.
Artha
08-25-2005, 11:35 PM
That and the fact that he singlehandedly executed approximately 100 of castro's political enemies.
Wikipedia said 156-500. Che sucked.
One of the few times I dont mind being wrong Artha. He was a extremely bad person, yet warriiorbird doesn't seem to see much wrong except hes trendy...
Apotheosis
08-25-2005, 11:38 PM
Pat Robertson wins for being all hardcore.
Seriously, we need more public people calling for assassinations of political figures across the globe.
It's not like we have to listen to them. Most likely some "fanatic" in our country will do it.
Warriorbird
08-26-2005, 10:00 AM
"Don't forget cold blooded murderer. "
Eh. Trendy, ineffective, and idealogically wrong. Compared to some of the regimes he went up against, he was about as violent as a little schoolgirl. It's a bloody region. If you're going to rebel or govern you are probably (definitely were then) going to get your hands very dirty.
[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Warriorbird]
Originally posted by Warriorbird
"Don't forget cold blooded murderer. "
Eh. Trendy, ineffective, and idealogically wrong. Compared to some of the regimes he went up against, he was about as violent as a little schoolgirl. It's a bloody region. If you're going to rebel or govern you are probably (definitely were then) going to get your hands very dirty.
[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Warriorbird]
Che Guevara ordered the cold blooded execution of countless people at the Le Cabana prison in Cuba. The blood of 1000's is on his hands.
He maybe popular but he was a terrorist who helped establish a Dictator in power who brought the world to the brink of nuclear war.
Che Guevara was in favour of nuclear war during the Cuban missile crisis because he believed a new man could be bulit out the ashes.
Let's not sugar coat it decades later.
Warriorbird
08-26-2005, 02:08 PM
I'm not sugar coating anything. How many fucked up regimes have there been in Central/South America? How many disgustingly repulsive dictators have we propped up? Quite a few.
A lot of people have advocated nuclear war. A lot of Americans, too.
[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Warriorbird]
Originally posted by Warriorbird
I'm not sugar coating anything. How many fucked up regimes have there been in Central/South America? How many disgustingly repulsive dictators have we propped up? Quite a few.
A lot of people have advocated nuclear war. A lot of Americans, too.
[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Warriorbird]
Agreed. That doesn't mean Che Gueverra is a hero though. He is as reprehensible as dictators like Pinochet that we have propped up.
A lot of Americans have advocated nuclear war. What makes Che's statement so heinous was that it was said in the middle of the very real Cuban Missle Crisis.
Ravenstorm
08-26-2005, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by xtc
Agreed. That doesn't mean Che Gueverra is a hero though. He is as reprehensible as dictators like Pinochet that we have propped up.
And if you can point out where he called him a hero, you might not be talking out your ass.
Raven
Warriorbird
08-26-2005, 02:51 PM
Not my primary area of history but I think Barry Goldwater advocated nuclear war in that period too. Very stupid.
With that said, no, I certainly do not think Che is a hero.
ElanthianSiren
08-31-2005, 08:25 AM
I found this irony interesting:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050829/wl_afp/usweathervenezuelaoil_050829235602
transcript:
Venezuela offers fuel, food to hurricane-hit US Mon Aug 29, 7:56 PM ET
CARACAS (AFP) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez offered to send food and fuel to the United States after the powerful Hurricane Katrina pummeled the US south, ravaging US crude production.
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The leftist leader, a frequent critic of the United States and a target himself of US disapproval, said Venezuela could send aid workers with drinking water, food and fuel to US communities hit by the hurricane.
"We place at the disposition of the people of the United States in the event of shortages -- we have drinking water, food, we can provide fuel," Chavez told reporters.
Chavez said fuel could be sent to the United States via a Citgo refinery that has not been affected by the hurricane. Citgo is owned by Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela (PDVSA).
In the Gulf of Mexico, which accounts for a quarter of total US oil output, 92 percent of crude and 83 percent of natural gas production were shut down due to Hurricane Katrina, which slammed Louisiana and Mississippi, according to US government data.
Venezuela is the fourth-largest provider of oil to the United States, supplying some 1.5 million barrels a day.
Last week, Chavez offered discount gasoline to poor Americans suffering from high oil prices and on Sunday offered free eye surgery for Americans without access to health care.
-M
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