Cindy Sheehan

[Back]

How does everyone feel about this woman’s vigil at the president’s vacation spot? Pointless? Futile? Justified?

It leaves me with a horrible feeling of despair in that I’m suspect that it will change anything soon. Polls are showing that more Americans believe not only should we not be in Iraq, but that we are not safer since we invaded.

The woman is overcome with grief so perhaps she may not be acting rationally. Then again she has a right upheld by our Constitution to gather, protest and question. She was the only one at first I believe, everyone else who is joining her was not recruited by her personally.

Grieving mother's war protest gaining momentum (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/mom.protest.ap/index.html)


CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- Cindy Sheehan's eyes well with tears when she talks about her oldest son, Casey, an easygoing young man with a quiet wit.

Casey joined the Army in 2000, never imagining he would see combat. Five days after he arrived in Iraq last year, the 24-year-old was killed in Sadr City.

Sheehan knows nothing can bring back her son, but she wants to talk to President Bush. The Vacaville, California, mother has been camping out along a road near his ranch since Saturday, vowing to remain until his Texas vacation ends later this month.

"Before my son was killed, I used to think that one person could not make a difference," she said Wednesday under a tent where she has slept since arriving. "But one person that is surrounded and supported by millions of people can be heard."

Today Bush had something to say about her, but not to her personally. Should he step outside his ranch and talk to her? Why or why not?

I don’t see why not. She came to him, she lost her son, he serves her and us, not the other way around. Then again, if he does this for her, will everyone else in the world expect an answer to their loss? In that respect, I can see why he wouldn’t... there would not be enough days in his term to answer all those questions.

Bush: Leaving Iraq Would Be a Bad Signal (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050811/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_58)


"I sympathize with Mrs. Sheehan," Bush said. "She feels strongly about her position, and she has every right in the world to say what she believes. This is America. She has a right to her position, and I thought long and hard about her position. I've heard her position from others, which is: Get out of Iraq now. And it would be a mistake for the security of this country and the ability to lay the foundations for peace in the long run if we were to do so."

I bolded the statements he made because they spoke to me as an American. The first, I wonder how someone can truly sympathize with someone who has lost a child. Two, its good to hear that my protest of the war is my right as an American. And three, how is going to war with a country that was no threat to us promoting peace?

[Renian]

He never said WHERE the peace would be.

[Latrinsorm]

I really do feel bad for this lady.
Casey joined the Army in 2000, never imagining he would see combat.Anyone who says this needs to be punched in the face.

[xtc]

Bush should meet her and talk with her.

[ElanthianSiren]

More than 1,800 servicepeople have died in Iraq; I suspect part of the reason that Bush doesn't want to meet with her is because he fears others will follow her example. There simply isn't enough time in the day for the president to personally meet with each of those families.

Also, the question she wants to ask him is basically, "Why did you kill my baby". To a grieving mother, I don't think there's any answer he can give that will console her. That means he has nothing to gain from meeting with her -- not even a publicity stunt, as anything he does or says is likely to set off an emotional inferno.

That said, I would like him to have to take responsibility for the mess of a war he spearheaded to someone. I still feel that he owes quite a few people an apology, but that doesn't mean that I think anyone will ever receive one.

-M

[Warriorbird]

"Anyone who says this needs to be punched in the face."

Is that a very Christian attitude?

[Anebriated]

He volunteered for the army. Bottom line is that he was hoping that he would get the lifetime paycheck and never see combat. He ended up giving up his life for it. Do I think that she is acting irrationally, yes, she needs to understand that her son volunteered for it and he took the chance. However I do think that Bush is slightly irrational as he should be willing to at least talk with the families of those who gave their life for the country and bush's vandetta.

[Drew]

Originally posted by xtc
Bush should meet her and talk with her.


He already did.

[Drew]

I have a picture for this woman:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/backwardhatclub/attention_whore.jpg

[Back]

Originally posted by Drew
I have a picture for this woman:


If she looked like that, Bush might have caught her on the first day when she was alone... if Laura wasn’t around.

[Gan]

Excellent article Backlash.

I wouldnt mind Bush having a private conversation with her even if it were to set precedence for others to seek the same audience. What I would think he would avoid would be the media using her as a wedge to exploit more inflammatory reporting while supposedly acting on her 'behalf'. Don Henley's song "Dirty Laundry" comes to mind when I think of this scenario with the press.

Her fortitude is admirable, unfortunately her actions will be tainted as just being 'a grieving mother' by most.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Her fortitude is admirable, unfortunately her actions will be tainted as just being 'a grieving mother' by most.


And the fact that she did a complete 180 on what she said Bush was like after meeting him the first time and what she says he was like now.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Is that a very Christian attitude? Shaking people by the shoulders is so 1500s.

[Landrion]

Originally posted by xtc
Bush should meet her and talk with her.

It would be a compassionate thing to do.

There was something I vaguely remember from history about how Lincoln handled correspondence with those who lost sons in the civil war. Maybe Im thinking of that line from Saving Private Ryan about having laid so costly a sacrifice on the altar of freedom (which may be completely false anyway).

[Back]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by Ganalon
Her fortitude is admirable, unfortunately her actions will be tainted as just being 'a grieving mother' by most.


And the fact that she did a complete 180 on what she said Bush was like after meeting him the first time and what she says he was like now.

I tried to have a sense of humor with your first offering here, but this character assassination of a woman who’s son is dead is deplorable. That dosen’t even come close to expressing how I feel about it.

There are many other people there, good Americans, with the right to do what they are doing. How American is it to shit on them for it?

[Warriorbird]

"Shaking people by the shoulders is so 1500s."

Odd. I thought that era was big on burning heretics.

[Delirium]

She already met with him once. Logically though you would think if you surround yourself with extreme groups that oppose the man you want to meet with, that the odds of getting a second meeting are slim to none. I wonder if all the parents of slain soldiers have gotten even one meeting?

[Gan]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by Ganalon
Her fortitude is admirable, unfortunately her actions will be tainted as just being 'a grieving mother' by most.


And the fact that she did a complete 180 on what she said Bush was like after meeting him the first time and what she says he was like now.

I tried to have a sense of humor with your first offering here, but this character assassination of a woman who’s son is dead is deplorable. That dosen’t even come close to expressing how I feel about it.

There are many other people there, good Americans, with the right to do what they are doing. How American is it to shit on them for it?

I"m not shitting on her, read my post again or have someone read it to you. I'm merely pointing out, realistically, how her actions could be perceived.

Get off your self rightous highhorse. You know the media will 'play' her if they get the chance. And yes she has the right to do whatever she wants, to which I said I admired her fortitude for it. You still realistically, meaning pull your head out of the sand, have to realize that people will take more than face value out of her actions. They will also look at her motivation, the circumstances around her issue, and how she chooses to bring her issue to a public forum - much like she has done so now.

And where in my post did I represent my thoughts as anything remotely relating to any expression on how you feel. Unless this post was specifically designed to be all about you - for which you'll need to edit the topic and the aim of your first post.

:flamed:

[Edited on 8-12-2005 by Ganalon]

[Back]

Uh, I was responding to Drew, dumbass. :lol:

I should have taken your part of the quote out. My bad.

[Gan]

Originally posted by Backlash
Uh, I was responding to Drew, dumbass. :lol:

I should have taken your part of the quote out. My bad.

Perhaps you need Nienenque to give you lessons on how to post quotes then, dumbass. :lol:

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
I really do feel bad for this lady.
Casey joined the Army in 2000, never imagining he would see combat.Anyone who says this needs to be punched in the face.

Well, you could dig him up and do so if it would make you feel better.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by Ganalon
Her fortitude is admirable, unfortunately her actions will be tainted as just being 'a grieving mother' by most.


And the fact that she did a complete 180 on what she said Bush was like after meeting him the first time and what she says he was like now.

I tried to have a sense of humor with your first offering here, but this character assassination of a woman who’s son is dead is deplorable. That dosen’t even come close to expressing how I feel about it.

There are many other people there, good Americans, with the right to do what they are doing. How American is it to shit on them for it?

The President of the United States met with her already. That's more than most Vietnam mothers got, most Korean War mothers, most WWII mothers, ad nauseam. Now she is lying (what she said after she met him and now what she is saying after she decided to make a media circus out of her son's death are completely different) about the President because she knows it's a slow new cycle and can get a lot of on-air time. Exploiting your dead son for attention, now that's deplorable.

[Edited on 8-12-2005 by Drew]

[Gridlock]

He cant just talk to every parent th
at looses a kid. I can see her wanting to talk to somone but this is just retarded.

He joined the army thats what the army is for to fight warfare.

What if after WW2 or something everyone that lost a son in the war Demanded to talk to the pres.

It kinda makes me sick that this is the best thing people can find to report on the news. I mean wtf is she gona say he didnt make her son join. Whats he gona say um sorry your son had to do his job?

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Gridlock

What if after WW2 or something everyone that lost a son in the war Demanded to talk to the pres.

Please please PLEASE do not try to make the claim that the Iraqi conflict we are in now is in ANY way analogous to WWII.

Just don't.


Originally posted by Gridlock
It kinda makes me sick that this is the best thing people can find to report on the news. I mean wtf is she gona say he didnt make her son join. Whats he gona say um sorry your son had to do his job?

From someone who'd own military career is as suspect at best, I would hope that even our current president would have slightly more tact.

[Back]

Originally posted by Drew
The President of the United States met with her already. That's more than most Vietnam mothers got, most Korean War mothers, most WWII mothers, ad nauseam. Now she is lying (what she said after she met him and now what she is saying after she decided to make a media circus out of her son's death are completely different) about the President because she knows it's a slow new cycle and can get a lot of on-air time. Exploiting your dead son for attention, now that's deplorable.

[Edited on 8-12-2005 by Drew]

Danny Elfman was right.


If they say lie down, you'll do it
If they say--buy it now--you'll do it
If they say--turn around--you'll do it
If they say--hit the ground--you'll do it
If they say--bite the big weenie--you'll do it
If they say--wasn't that good--you'll do it
If they say--bend over baby--you'll do it
If they say--take it and like it--you'll do it

[Drew]

Or some of us just have differing opinions about what is right.


Personally I've been considering enlisting in the Army for the last couple of months. There is no tangible benefit for me to join (I'd lose money), but I've been considering it.

[ElanthianSiren]

People losing people due to war is the way of war, and the media has always covered it, to the best of my knowledge. They cover it the same as they cover the major propaganda speeches about staying the course in Iraq. It's of interest. That's capitalism.

Most Americans, regardless of position on the war(s), are interested in it/them. 24 hour cable news simply makes a huge demand for news because they need to fill 24 hours with as few loops as they can.

"This Just in! Cindy Sheehan, grieving parent of one of the casualties of war, is still outside of Bush's ranch in Crawford Texas, waiting to meet with him. This is her fifth day of protest. Now, we go live to Ms. Sheehan in Crawford, Texas!" is much more exciting in general because it's not speculation on what someone will do. It's a current, ongoing event, a RL soap opera/drama.

I personally, can't fault the news for doing what they're paid to do and have done by covering other facets of/opinions on the wars we are presently engaged in.

I think, however, even if I supported the War in Iraq, it would be tough to face an unconsolable woman who has lost her son, much the same as it's tough to look at the pictures and see the anti-war ads by soldiers/about kids who lost limbs due to fire. I certainly don't envy Bush his position, but I didn't sign an edict to go to war on questionable intelligence.

-M

[Gan]

Update:

Cindy has left the site of her protest to care for an ill family member. The protest has moved into its 4th week this week and even without Cindy there, they continue hold rallies and concerts. The latest being Joan Baez who sang to a crowd of around 500 people last night.

Cindy's primary supportive movement is Gold Star Families for Peace. I took a moment to browse through their site and came across a letter that hints to more than just one angry [or more than one as the group expands its membership] mother's issue of the death of her son with the President.

Letter:
Dear Friends and Supporters

August 3rd, 2005

George Bush said speaking about the dreadful loss of life in Iraq in August: (08/03/05): "We have to honor the sacrifices of the fallen by completing the mission." "The families of the fallen can be assured that they died for a noble cause."

In reaction to these two asinine and hurtful statements, members of Gold Star Families for Peace (GSFP) are going to George's vacation home in Crawford, Tx this Saturday, August 6th at 11:00 am to confront him on these two statements.

1) We want our loved ones sacrifices to be honored by bringing our nation's sons and daughters home from the travesty that is Iraq IMMEDIATELY, since this war is based on horrendous lies and deceptions. Just because our children are dead, why would we want any more families to suffer the same pain and devastation that we are.

2) We would like for him to explain this "noble cause" to us and ask him why Jenna and Barbara are not in harm's way, if the cause is so noble.

3) If George is not ready to send the twins, then he should bring our troops home immediately. We will demand a speedy withdrawal.

GSFP will be joined by members of Veteran's for Peace (VFP), Military Families Speak Out (MFSO), Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW), Code Pink, and Crawford Peace House.

We GSFP members will not leave until we get answers from George Bush. We deserve and expect him to welcome us with answers to as why our loved ones are dead.

Every worker for peace, every worker for justice, every person who wants our country back are welcomed to join us on Saturday. Show George Bush that we mean business. Be there to support us family members who have already been through so much. We are fighting for our country, our world, especially the children.

Crawford is about 2 hours from Dallas where the VFP Convention is being held this weekend. There will be car pools from the convention.

HONOR OUR LOVED ONE'S SACRIFICES: BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!!!!

Bring water and hats...we plan on staying until we are arrested or satisfied with the answers. (I am betting on jail).

Please pass this email on to your friends, lists, and media.

http://www.gsfp.org/article.php?id=39

The bold statements really discredit the integrity of the occasion even more, in my opinion. Any consideration I had for Cindy regarding her issues has eroded since browsing through this organization's website that she's a co-founder of. And her statements that she did not wish the media to become involved (I saw it on CNN, looking for the transcript or text article) seems in direct conflict with this mission letter on her site. It looks as if her goal, even though not directly political, exploited the political and media process in order to fuel it forward.

[Skirmisher]

I guess it's all about perspective.

Those who support Bush and think he has made the right decisions in Iraq so far will most likely see Sheehan as exploiting her son's passing and those who think Bush has been wrong probably tend to think her son's passing caused her to become so much more politically active.

[Anebriated]

Those who support Bush and think he has made the right decisions in Iraq so far will most likely see Sheehan as exploiting her son's passing and those who think Bush has been wrong probably tend to think her son's passing caused her to become so much more politically active.

Regardless of which way I believe I find her to be a bitch. I dont know what part of "volunteer" she doesnt get but her son obviously understood the meaning when he did so. As I said in my last post he didnt expect to get called to duty so he joined for the benefits. I hardly feel sorry for his mom in that regard.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Elrodin
As I said in my last post he didnt expect to get called to duty so he joined for the benefits.He volunteered for a rescue mission in which he and others were killed. He carried out his duty despite joining for "all the wrong reasons" which could still be considered heresay.

May 29, 1979: Casey Sheehan born.
May 2000: Sheehan joins the United States Army.
August 2003: Sheehan re-enlists knowing that his unit would be sent to Iraq.
March 2004: Sheehan's division, the First Cavalry Division, is sent to Iraq.
March 19, 2004: Sheehan's company, Charlie Battery, arrives at F.O.B. War Eagle in Sadr City.
April 4, 2004: Sheehan killed in action.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_Sheehan

[Anebriated]

Alright so my one statement was incorrect, he knew full well that he was going to be going to Iraq. I have even less compassion for his mothers campaign now. He still volunteered to go back so it was his choice. While Bush may or may not have made the wrong choice about the war he still chose to go back after his time was done, and he paid the price for his decision.

[DeV]

True.

I posted that information mainly for clarification because I had not caught up on this story and am just now doing that. The missinformation flying back and forth has been confusing to say the least. I really have nothing to say regarding the mother as I am not surprised ONE BIT by her actions and reactions to her sons death in a war that he volunteered for.

She's going through something, a very big thing, and I can honestly say I feel indifferent towards her cause because she is making alot of enemies in the process, but I understand that her grief and obvious anger have alot to do with this.

[JadeScarlet]

My dad just sent me these two short films about Cindy Sheehan.

http://www.bushflash.com/vigil.html

http://www.djpauledge.com/wewillnotbesilenced/

I applaud her for speaking out and I believe that more people should stand up and say what they believe and demand the truth.

[Warriorbird]

She certainly causes some strange bedfellows.

Guess who's planning on showing up to support her on the same day!

Al Sharpton! (http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--peacemom-sharpton0825aug25,0,818782.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork)

and the white power organization

Stormfront! (http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=227149)

[Sean of the Thread]

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200508%5 CNAT20050817c.html

She represents the extreme minority.


(CNSNews.com) - Anti-war protesters aren't the only ones heading to Crawford, Tex. A group that supports U.S. troops and the war on terrorism has launched a "You Don't Speak for Me, Cindy" tour.

Move America Forward, a conservative advocacy group, said it will lead a caravan of military family members who oppose Sheehan's "anti-military antics."

The caravan will depart early next week from different locations around the country, converging on Crawford in time for an Aug. 27 rally in support of U.S. troops and their mission in Iraq.

"The overwhelming majority of military families support their loved ones and the missions they are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan," said Move America Forward Co-Chair Melanie Morgan, who also hosts a radio program on KSFO.

"These military families do not share Cindy Sheehan's view of the war on terrorism, and the true story needs to be told," Morgan added. "We invite Americans to join us en masse in Crawford, Texas, on August 27 so we can send a message to terrorists around the world that American resolve is stronger than ever."

Deborah Johns of Marine Moms will lead the delegation from San Francisco, where Move America Forward is based. Her son William served in Operation Iraqi Freedom.

"Cindy Sheehan doesn't speak for me, nor does she speak for any of the military families that I have been involved with," Johns said.

"I am deeply sorry for Ms. Sheehan's loss; however, Ms. Sheehan's actions are only causing pain to those of us who have loved ones serving in the war against terrorism. We understand the need to fight the terrorists overseas rather than face attack here at home."

Johns said terrorists led by al Qaeda -- not President Bush -- are responsible for the deaths of U.S. troops in Iraq.

Move America Forward said it will run TV ads publicizing the Crawford-bound caravan, which will make stops along the way for rallies and press conferences.

[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Xyelin]

[weasel82]

Originally posted by JadeScarlet
My dad just sent me these two short films about Cindy Sheehan.

http://www.bushflash.com/vigil.html

http://www.djpauledge.com/wewillnotbesilenced/

I applaud her for speaking out and I believe that more people should stand up and say what they believe and demand the truth.

I hope you mean all those people who are for the war should stand up and make their opinions known too...

This is an all volunteer army. If he joined, he was rationally aware of what that could mean.

I think she dishonors her son's sacrifice to his country by doing this. He fought and died for the interests of this country, I consider that a noble cause, even as sad as it is.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. I don't think Cindy Sheehan represents the minority.

Support for the Iraq War is currently pretty low.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5580679.html

[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Eh. I dunno if Cindy Sheehan represents the minority.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5580679.html

Let me rephrase since you missed the point. She represents the extreme minority of families who have experienced a loss.

[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Xyelin]

[Warriorbird]

That I'd certainly agree with. I find her actions puzzling despite not supporting the administration.

[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Warriorbird]

[xtc]

Originally posted by Xyelin

She represents the extreme minority.
[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Xyelin]

In the case of Americans, she represents the majority. 56% of Americans think this war is a mistake.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14266-2004Dec20.html

Luckily for those going to Texas to express their Pro-War view the rights of the minority have been protected in America by those in the ACLU, no thanks to GWB. Maybe a free speech zone 50 miles away from Bushes ranch for the Pro War group would be appropriate. I know they have the right the voice their opinion but they are the minority so I think a free speech zone far from the President's ranch would be appropriate.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Xyelin

She represents the extreme minority.
[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Xyelin]

In the case of Americans, she represents the majority. 56% of Americans think this war is a mistake.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14266-2004Dec20.html

Luckily for those going to Texas to express their Pro-War view the rights of the minority have been protected in America by those in the ACLU, no thanks to GWB. Maybe a free speech zone 50 miles away from Bushes ranch for the Pro War group would be appropriate. I know they have the right the voice their opinion but they are the minority so I think a free speech zone far from the President's ranch would be appropriate.

Idiot. "Let me rephrase since you missed the point. She represents the extreme minority of families who have experienced a loss. "

[weasel82]

Originally posted by Xyelin

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Eh. I dunno if Cindy Sheehan represents the minority.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5580679.html

Let me rephrase since you missed the point. She represents the extreme minority of families who have experienced a loss.

[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Xyelin]

In all honesty...I would think you're probably right, although it seems popular opinion of the war right now is way low. But then again, it fluctuates...

sometimes it's in Bush's favor, sometimes it's not.

I'd rather see a graph that shows the changes in favor every month since the war has started. ::shrug::

Besides, when favorably conservative, or liberal, polls are sometimes hard to get a true reading on things...

[Warriorbird]

Well.... the Post's polls (conservative) and the AP (liberal) both have shown a pretty low approval rate for the war for a while... but it's been an up and down course throughout the months.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Well.... the Post's polls (conservative) and the AP (liberal) both have shown a pretty low approval rate for the war for a while... but it's been an up and down course throughout the months.


Wait, the Washington Post is conservative??? Exactly what planet are you from?

[Warriorbird]

This one. Quite conservative. Maybe you're thinking of the Times, which is the very liberal mass market paper.



[Edited on 8-26-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Soulpieced]

Don't any of these peons work?! 4 weeks worth of protest... lousy Democrats.

[Kainen]

While I feel bad for her that she lost her son, bottom line is that people who sign up for the military knowing they could go to war and die. While this doesn't lessen her grief, at least she had an idea that her child could die.. unlike people who have their children taken from them because of disease, crimes or accidents. Personally I believe that she is doing this out of grief and when she gets past the anger part of grieving, this will die down. I do have sympathy for her as I lost a daughter to an illness. You can have sympathy for someone but not know exactly what they are going through.

[Skeeter]

I have a feeling she is mentally unstable and could benefit from some good psychotropic medications.