July 7th terrorist attack.

[Asha]

There has been explosions all through the metro tube, lots of different areas. Explosions on buses, almost a hundred casualties.
Edited to add . . much calmer now.
::breath::

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by Drayal]

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by Drayal]

[Drew]

Here's what I've posted on my webpage so far, just cut and paste:

6:28 am- London has been hit by terrorists, 6-10 bombs in the tubes and buses. I've heard over 90 casualities so far but that was from a early report, it may go up or down. No one has claimed responsibility so far but the Irish Republican Army is the first suspect. A well cordinated attack seems to indicate Al Quada though.


Links:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050707.wunderground0707/BNStory/International/

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000100&sid=aa.tZEvUCOSg&refer=germany

Check your news for more information, they'll be covering this all day.


Edit 6:35: AP news wire reports that Israeli intelligence warns Scotland Yard of terror attacks minutes before the attacks.

[SayGoodbye]

:( Stay safe Brits.

[sellout]

Fucked up.

Some serious graphic images on the news right now..

[Drew]

Timeline:

10:47 a.m.: Home Secretary Charles Clarke says London blasts cause "terrible injuries"

10:46 Police say serious casualties in London explosions, but no deaths confirmed

10:46 Witness to Britain's Sky News says second blast heard in Tavistock Square.

10:45 Police sources say a bomb is suspected in London bus explosion.

10:33 Police confirm at least three explosions on buses in central London.

10:25 Police confirm explosion on bus in central London in the area around Russell Square.

10:24 Scotland Yard says "multiple explosions" rock London.

10:14 News agencies report a bus has exploded in central London.

09:53 Metronet says the entire London subway network has been shut down.

Police says incidents are reported at the Aldgate station near the Liverpool Street railway terminal, Edgware Road and King's Cross in north London, Old Street in the financial district and Russell Square in central London, near the British Museum.

09:41 London Underground reports a second explosion at a subway station in northwest London.

09:33 Witnesses say London underground says services are suspended after "power surge."

09:27 Metronet, the subway maintenance company, says power surge has caused explosion in London tube station.

09:25 Police say "there are walking wounded" in London's financial district.

09:15 British transport police say a explosion is reported in London's financial district in the area near Liverpool railway station.


http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.timeline/

[Fallen]

Jesus Christ people, stay home if you are in the U.K.

[Artha]

Ugh. I hope all our UK posters are ok.

[Drew]

Link for 90 causualites.

http://english.people.com.cn/200507/07/eng20050707_194694.html

[Asha]

We've been told to stay in our homes. 99 percent of my family is in London.
I'm praying and I'm praying.

[Drew]

If it's true that Israel had intelligence about this then it's definately not an IRA thing, it's definately a middle east thing. Israel doesn't have any agents in deep cover in the IRA I'm quite sure.



I'll pray for them too Drayal.

[Warriorbird]

Crazed. Good luck.

[AnticorRifling]

Good luck guys. I'm just waiting for the "The War on Terrorism is stupid. We are getting bombzored! HLEP PLZ!" retarded posts. Not the time or place for those.

[Fallen]

An argument has been made that this attack was likely planned for at least several months. The G8 summit meeting may just be a coincidence. Something to think about.

[Drew]

Al-Qaeda behind London blasts, say Arab sources - BBC
07.07.2005, 08:16 AM

LONDON (AFX) - Arab sources have told the BBC that the multiple attacks on London's transport system today were the work of the al-Qaeda terrorist network, the radio and TV station said.

It said security correspondent Frank Gardener, who is usually well informed, had been given the information by 'Arab sources.'

A number of British security and anti-terror experts have also spoken of a 'co-ordinated attack' that bore the hallmark of terrorism.


http://www.forbes.com/finance/feeds/afx/2005/07/07/afx2127478.html

[Fallen]

Thanks for the update, Drew.

[Asha]

If that's the extent of the bomings we're gonna get. We were relatively lucky.
I'm thinking if they wanted to seriously fuck up London, they could have done so much worse. And now we know they could.
I hope it's over.

[Fallen]

Updating the Thread's title for clarity.

[Leetahkin]

Just waking up... I hope all the UK posters (and their families) are okay.
My thoughts are with everyone.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Fallen
An argument has been made that this attack was likely planned for at least several months. The G8 summit meeting may just be a coincidence. Something to think about.


Just to point out: the G8 meetings are scheduled months in advance.

[Drew]

First group to claim responsibility:



The Group of the Secret Organisation of al-Qaeda in Europe issued a brief statement posted on the Internet claiming responsibility for the blasts and warning Italy and Denmark to pull out their troops from Iraq or receive similar treatment. Authorities have yet to establish the message's credibility.


In the statement, the authors say that "an attack has been carried out against the British Zionist 'crusader' government in response to the massacres that have been carried out by Great Britain in Iraq and Afghanistan."

According to the statement "the Mujahadeen heroes have carried out a holy operation in London", saying that "the British people has been warned more than once and now we have kept our promise with a huge effort" which it said had taken lengthy preparations.

The statement concludes with warnings to two other European governments. "We are again warning the Danish goernment and the Italian government, along with all 'crusader' governments, that they will receive the same punishment for what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.



Keep in mind that many groups claim responsibilty for these kind of attacks afterwards, it will take a while to sort out if this is just some group trying to get free press or if this is actually legit. There will be many other claims by every different type of group in the coming hours.

[Atlanteax]

Not to minimize the significance of what happened...

... but here's to the hope/expectation that the British people have more resolve than the Spainards when it comes to combating terrorism.

.

Meanwhile I hope Harmone and Chica will be posting saying that they're alright.

[Nieninque]

While any loss is a tragedy, if this is Al Quaida I'm pretty sure they will be kicking themselves for the fuck-up that this is casualty-wise.

It doesnt come close to the IRA attacks or the attacks they managed in other countries.

[Asha]

Harmnone is in England?

Chica lives far enough from London to be ok. Hopeing she went to work as normal today.
Stay should be way up north.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Nieninque
While any loss is a tragedy, if this is Al Quaida I'm pretty sure they will be kicking themselves for the fuck-up that this is casualty-wise.

It doesnt come close to the IRA attacks or the attacks they managed in other countries.


London is a wide city, unlike New York and Hong Kong. Which, as far as terrorism is concerned, is a good thing right now.

[Asha]

Like I said. If this is the extent of the damage to be dealt, I hope the fuckers are cursing themselves and their weak plans.
Now Tony Blair is coming back to London, I bet the bad guys are shitting themselves.
Heh.

My heart goes out to those who've been hurt. And of course to their families.
I'm going to take my neice to the park, buy her an ice cream and feed the duckies. Times like this I really want her to know I love her.

[peam]

For the record, HarmNone does not live in London.

I hope all of our Brits make it through this safely.

[Burnt out Priestess]

My prayers are with you all in London at this time.

[CrystalTears]

This sucks. :( I hope everyone that lives there are alright.

Tony Blair looked so distraught and torn up over this when I saw him speak on the news this morning. Such a shock to see your country hit in this awful manner. At least it wasn't in the scale of 9/11. Still, it's a horrible thing to see happen to people.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by Nieninque
While any loss is a tragedy, if this is Al Quaida I'm pretty sure they will be kicking themselves for the fuck-up that this is casualty-wise.

It doesnt come close to the IRA attacks or the attacks they managed in other countries.


London is a wide city, unlike New York and Hong Kong. Which, as far as terrorism is concerned, is a good thing right now.

Yep it could have been alot worse. The centre bombing of manchester by the IRA a couple years back, for example.

[Asha]

It was either fucked up , or a piss weak plan.
We've seen a single guy do more damage with a nail bomb than this.
Still they injured more than 100, killed a few an brought London to a standstill.
Bet they're singing god is great about that. Although they'll eventually find out Gods actually pretty pissed off.

[Czeska]

My thoughts are with all of you too. So many flashbacks to 9/11 and how I felt watching the horror. I'll take the renewed sense of deep gratitude I have for those I love, and channel that energy to everyone suffering today.

[Apotheosis]

wow, just heard about this situation, damn. My thoughts are with everyone in the UK right now.

While it doesn't sound as big as some other terrorist attacks in europe, in the past, I hope the "Al Qaida" or whoever they are realize that doing what they are doing is not good for their homelands.

And what will it take for France to wake up?

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Yswithe
wow, just heard about this situation, damn. My thoughts are with everyone in the UK right now.

While it doesn't sound as big as some other terrorist attacks in europe, in the past, I hope the "Al Qaida" or whoever they are realize that doing what they are doing is not good for their homelands.

And what will it take for France to wake up?

They will probably rationale that if they become involved they too shall suffer such attacks. I don't blame them either.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Yswithe
And what will it take for France to wake up?

Hopefully not an attack.

also I pray the western world understands all are in the same boat and that the cost monetarily and to our individual freedoms along with the terrible things warriors will have to do during this war is necessary

[Asha]

Plus they'd have to figure out a way for their troops to scale the 900 ft walls which surround the entire country while dressing them in stripey skin tight shirts and refining their beards to little wispy handlebars.
:pant:

Keep yourselves okay out there. I wish the best to you and your families. Unfortunately, this is a sobering reminder on how we must remain strong and firm on the war on terrorism.

- Arkans

[HarmNone]

I don't know how to express my sorrow. For once, the blabbery one is at a loss for words. I have candles burning for each of you here. I shall not be at peace until each of our British posters has "checked in".

Please, please...all of you...let's not turn this thread into a diatribe on who's got the best country. We are people of the earth. Care for one another, and wish each other well. This is not a time for put-downs. This is a time for pulling together.

Stay safe. Everyone stay safe.

HarmNone....in tears

Originally posted by StrayRogue
[They will probably rationale that if they become involved they too shall suffer such attacks. I don't blame them either.

That's a coward's motto.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets

Originally posted by StrayRogue
[They will probably rationale that if they become involved they too shall suffer such attacks. I don't blame them either.

That's a coward's motto.

Whoever said the French weren't cowards?

[HarmNone]

I asked that it stop. I'm now saying, clearly, STOP IT. There is no need for this. I will delete any further posting that involves who has the better country, who is stupid, who is useless, or anything of that sort. This is not the place for it, and it will NOT be tolerated.

Several posts have been removed. The first post removed, posted by Xcalibur, was based on a comment made in another thread that was completely off-topic to this thread. The other removed posts were in response to that original.

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by HarmNone]

[Tromp]

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by Tromp]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tromp
To be honest, one of the main outrageous statements proven false was Bush's claim that we are winning the war on terror.

I'm so much more PO'd about the US invasion of Iraq now then ever before.

My heart goes out to all you London'ites. I honestly feel like we (the US) are to blame for all of this. Tony Blair will have a hard time sleeping after realizing the cost for selling his soul to the devil (Bush).

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by Tromp]

Bush's responsibility isn't to protect the entire world.. it's to protect the USA. I think we've done a pretty damn good job of that so far after 9-11.

[CrystalTears]

Terrorists suck, so quit putting blame on ANYONE else but the terrorists who are the sole people responsible. That comment just totally pissed me off so I had to delete my rant. :rant:

[Edited on 7/7/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Tromp]

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by Tromp]

[Skirmisher]

Make your own threads about blaming people.

Lets keep this thread about what happened.

There has been enough negative crap today, let's not use this to spark our own fights.

Show some respect, maturity and decorum during this difficult time for our friends and thier families.

[JadeScarlet]

I live in London, near russell square. Just flew in, staying at a hotel. Don't know much other than what I heard on the radio.

[Landrion]

My deepest sympathies to the people of Britain. I remember what it feels like to be frantically calling friends and loved ones to make sure they werent hurt.

Bless Britain, who has stood with the U.S when things were darkest and since then as well. As has been said "no better friend" than Britain.

[ElanthianSiren]

360 people wounded, at least 90 proclaimed dead, and you all want to start pointing fingers? WTF. Come on now. Let's wait a few hours at least to start spinning.

Hope all our posters in the UK are safe and well. Remember, though, staying in your homes and interrupting your life is giving in to terror and doing what they want you to do. Drayal, I hope you're having fun with your neice. My best wishes follow each and every one of you today.

-M

[HarmNone]

Good to hear from you, JadeScarlet! I'm on pins and needles waiting for the others, from whom we haven't heard, to check in.

I'm assuming any family you have in the area are safe.

[HarmNone]

Drayal, darlin'...give that little niece a big hug from an old broad in the USA who's awfully glad the two of you are safe and enjoying each other and an outing. While you're at it, give yourself a big hug from me, too. :)

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Bush's responsibility isn't to protect the entire world.. it's to protect the USA. Does he know that?

Truly sorry to hear about the bombings and hoping the UK folks that post here and their family members are safe.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Make your own threads about blaming people.

Lets keep this thread about what happened.

There has been enough negative crap today, let's not use this to spark our own fights.

Show some respect, maturity and decorum during this difficult time for our friends and thier families.

Too right.

My apologies.

Once again my heart goes out to the people of London town.

Man this sucks.

[Gan]

My heart goes out to our brothers and sisters in the UK. I'll light a candle myself to add to the ones HN has going for you.

I hope that the terrorists last thought, before the life that they use to take others is finally snuffed out, realize that with every attack they initiate on non-combatants is just another nail in their coffin of extinction. Eventually civilization as a whole will rise up and squash their existance as a bug under a shoe. There is no honor in targeting unarmed and unprepared men, women, and children; only cowardice. If their movement is indeed God's will and they all act in honor then there should be no excuse for meeting us on the field of battle for surely their victory is guaranteed. But they wont, because they know its not.

[Drinin]

Just woke up and heard about what happened. It's my off day from work so I am sure that I will be flipping between msnbc, cnn, and fnc all day watching the coverage. I hope that everyone is safe.

You are all in my prayers. I know the shit you guys have been through there with the IRA and am sad to see that they (not the IRA) succeeded in this attack. If anyone is prepared to stop this type of shit aside from the Israelis it’s you guys.



[Edited on 7-7-2005 by HarmNone]

Stay safe Nieninque.
:grouphug:

[MaryJane]

I got an email from the GM today saying we have to wear orange vests and name tags at all times while at work locations. I guess I have to find my nametag.

I don't know if it was already posted ( I tried to skip the infight stuff) but I read this in the news:

Blair said the ''terrorist attacks'' were clearly designed to coincide with the G-8 summit opening in Gleneagles, Scotland. They also came a day after London won the bid to host the 2012 Olympics. A group calling itself ''The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe'' claimed responsibility. The statement also threatened attacks in Italy and Denmark.

The pictures are saddening. I wish them all the best.

[HarmNone]

Saddening is an understatement for the emotions those pictures generated. As an American, my heart goes out to all of you. We know the feeling all too well.

[xtc]

Almost all of my family on both sides live in England. The majority live in the London area. I have spent the morning on the phone making sure everyone is ok, so far so good.

I watched CBC and CTV (both Canadian nation wide tv networks. They had on experts from CSIS (Canadian Security Intelligence Services), a Director from the McKenzie Institute and a former British paramilitary Officer who now owns a security firm that consults to the Canadian and British Government. They all had similar opinions which are:

A. This was not the work of Al Qaida. Al Qaida doesn't confirm its attacks. They also believed that the yield from these blasts was low. The bombs could have been put together and positioned differently to have a greater impact. They believed if it was Al Qaida the yield would have been far greater.

B. Many people will take responsibility for these attacks in the name of bogus organizations. This is done by quacks and to obfuscate the true source of the attacks.

C. This blast was intended to coordinate with the G8 summit.

C. It is import at this point not to be reactionary and to allow the experts determine who is responsible for this blast.

My prayers go out to the Brits today.

[HarmNone]

I'm glad you're finding your family well, xtc. This has to be a really frightening experience for you, and others who have loved ones in the London area. May all of them be safe.

[Fallen]

It will be interesting to see who is ultimately found to be responsible for this attack.

I do have to say by watching the response by the British people, that they seem to be an extremely resilient culture. It makes me proud that we have such strong willed allies in this day and age.

ehh XTC, Al Qaeda's MO has been to confirm their attacks, as of late. (or else how would we know it is Al Qaeda attacking unless people are caught and you dont hear about that in the news) They confirmed their WTC1 and 2 attacks, Embasy bombings, USS COLE bombing, daily they confirm their attacks in Iraq, just to name some things in recent history. The cells are not as organized as they used to be and do not get nearly as much direction from Al Qaeda's command structure. It is possible that this was done by a now independent cell which resulted in the ass fuck that the US and Brits gave Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

Granted I am not a expert on this, and don’t know nearly as much as the experts speaking, but for anyone to make a judgment as to who it was and was not yet (with the only real evidence being the conformation of the attack coming from a group that claims to be Al Qaeda) is a bit presumptive.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. Might've been anarchists protesting G8.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Fallen
It will be interesting to see who is ultimately found to be responsible for this attack.

I do have to say by watching the response by the British people, that they seem to be an extremely resilient culture. It makes me proud that we have such strong willed allies in this day and age.

Yes, and that resilency is evident in American society ever since the first British colonies were founded.

The difference here is that the U.S. is the geopolitical gorilla that can and will smash anything that provokes it.

I believe that the British military has acknowledged in a published report that its national security for the long-term future will be predominantly dependent on the U.S.

If anything, this will only strengthen the cooperation between the U.S. and the U.K.

I'm certain that if Blair requests it from Bush, he'll get any U.S. logistical support he needs in dealing with the criminals/jihadists involved.

Editted to fix wording of 1st paragraph.

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by Atlanteax]

[ElanthianSiren]

xtc -- chin up :) hope your family is allright.

That's interesting Atlan, where do you read that? I would think Britain would be very dependent on the European Union, as its success would actually make it more expansive than the U.S..

-M

[xtc]

Originally posted by Dave
ehh XTC, Al Qaeda's MO has been to confirm their attacks, as of late. (or else how would we know it is Al Qaeda attacking unless people are caught and you dont hear about that in the news) They confirmed their WTC1 and 2 attacks, Embasy bombings, USS COLE bombing, daily they confirm their attacks in Iraq, just to name some things in recent history. The cells are not as organized as they used to be and do not get nearly as much direction from Al Qaeda's command structure. It is possible that this was done by a now independent cell which resulted in the ass fuck that the US and Brits gave Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

Granted I am not a expert on this, and don’t know nearly as much as the experts speaking, but for anyone to make a judgment as to who it was and was not yet (with the only real evidence being the conformation of the attack coming from a group that claims to be Al Qaeda) is a bit presumptive.

I am only quoting was said by three security experts this morning.

It is my understanding Al Qaida didn't issue any statements claiming responsibility in regards to the Cole, 9-11, or the embassy bombings.

I am sure there is a high probability that this could be the work of extremist Wahabi Muslims but the experts I watched didn't believe that they are Al Qaida.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by xtc

A. This was not the work of Al Qaida. Al Qaida doesn't confirm its attacks. They also believed that the yield from these blasts was low. The bombs could have been put together and positioned differently to have a greater impact. They believed if it was Al Qaida the yield would have been far greater.



all the above is false.


Al Qaida does confirm and post on their website all their attacks but they do not call them attacks they call them raids so that they can be seen just like the Prophet in the Koran who did raids against his enemy

here is the lastest from them

On 7 July, "Nur al-Iman" participant, identified as a "new guest", posts to the jihadist website Al-Qal'ah (Fortress), available at ref HYPERLINK www.qal3ah.net/vb www.qal3ah.net/vb , a statement issued by "The Secret Organization Group of Al-Qa'ida of Jihad Organization in Europe". In the statement, the group claims responsibility for the London "raid". The following is a translated text of the statement:

"The Secret Organization Group of Al-Qa'idah of Jihad Organization in Europe (Jama'at al-Tanzim al-Sirri, Tanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Urupa) In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate, may peace be upon the cheerful one and the dauntless
fighter, Prophet Muhammad, God's peace be upon him.

O nation of Islam and nation of Arabism: Rejoice for it is time to take revenge from the British Zionist Crusader
government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The heroic mujahidin have carried out a blessed raid in London. Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern and western quarters. We have repeatedly warned the British government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our mujahidin exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid.

We continue to warn the governments of Denmark and Italy and all the Crusader governments that they will be punished in the same way if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. He who warns is excused.

God says: " (O ye who believe!) If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly." '

[xtc]

Originally posted by theotherjohn

Originally posted by xtc

A. This was not the work of Al Qaida. Al Qaida doesn't confirm its attacks. They also believed that the yield from these blasts was low. The bombs could have been put together and positioned differently to have a greater impact. They believed if it was Al Qaida the yield would have been far greater.



all the above is false.


Al Qaida does confirm and post on their website all their attacks but they do not call them attacks they call them raids so that they can be seen just like the Prophet in the Koran who did raids against his enemy

here is the lastest from them

On 7 July, "Nur al-Iman" participant, identified as a "new guest", posts to the jihadist website Al-Qal'ah (Fortress), available at ref HYPERLINK www.qal3ah.net/vb www.qal3ah.net/vb , a statement issued by "The Secret Organization Group of Al-Qa'ida of Jihad Organization in Europe". In the statement, the group claims responsibility for the London "raid". The following is a translated text of the statement:

"The Secret Organization Group of Al-Qa'idah of Jihad Organization in Europe (Jama'at al-Tanzim al-Sirri, Tanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Urupa) In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate, may peace be upon the cheerful one and the dauntless
fighter, Prophet Muhammad, God's peace be upon him.

O nation of Islam and nation of Arabism: Rejoice for it is time to take revenge from the British Zionist Crusader
government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The heroic mujahidin have carried out a blessed raid in London. Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern and western quarters. We have repeatedly warned the British government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our mujahidin exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid.

We continue to warn the governments of Denmark and Italy and all the Crusader governments that they will be punished in the same way if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. He who warns is excused.

God says: " (O ye who believe!) If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly." '

I don't think someone posting with the sig new guest on a website is a reliable source of information.

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by xtc]

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
That's interesting Atlan, where do you read that? I would think Britain would be very dependent on the European Union, as its success would actually make it more expansive than the U.S..

-M

Umm... Britain wants to be as independent of the (European) Continent as much as possible.

Which is another factor in the tight US-UK alliance. The US helps ensures UK independence, while the UK works on the inside of the EU to shift it into a model that is more conductive to the US-UK's brand of geopolitics.

Currently the UK (and the US) are succeeding in the later goal. France's dream of a strong and unified EU under a true Federalist system (central taxation, foreign policy, etc) has been shattered. Nevermind their own rejection of the Constitution which was due to the most part the French realization that a Federalist EU will be of the AngloSaxon Laissez Faire model as opposed to the French State-run model, where the French influence will be drowned (Scandavia, Central Europe, and Eastern Europe are all US loyalists, and couplemented with the UK, can easily outvote the French-German bloc).

Of course, now the French are going to do whatever they can to fight the reforms that UK hopes to implement during its EU presidency that will cement the trend away from French centralization.

Additionally, the US is using its leverage in Scandavia, CE, and EE, (in coordination with the UK) to ensure that the EU does not unify into a SuperPower than can challenge US initiative/influence in the World.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by xtc
I don't think someone posting with the sig new guest on a website is a reliable source of information.



I agree but I do consider Michael Scheuer, the former CIA Bin Laden analyst, whom providing the information reliable

Originally posted by xtc
I am sure there is a high probability that this could be the work of extremist Wahabi Muslims but the experts I watched didn't believe that they are Al Qaida.

See that is where it gets difficult if you don’t know what happened to the organization after the liberation of Afghanistan. What was once Al Qaeda has been destroyed. They had a international structure that we (those fighting in the war on terror) have managed to dismantle. The issue we now have is the hundreds of terrorist cells that were once loyal to Al Qaeda's central control are now acting on their own accord. So as they may not be what Al Qaeda once was, they still are in a newly adapted form.

I’m trying to put this as easy to understand as is possible. If you have specific questions I can explain a bit more.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Reason number 89147 why the middle east should be nuked off the face of the earth.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by xtc
I am sure there is a high probability that this could be the work of extremist Wahabi Muslims but the experts I watched didn't believe that they are Al Qaida.

See that is where it gets difficult if you don’t know what happened to the organization after the liberation of Afghanistan. What was once Al Qaeda has been destroyed. They had a international structure that we (those fighting in the war on terror) have managed to dismantle. The issue we now have is the hundreds of terrorist cells that were once loyal to Al Qaeda's central control are now acting on their own accord. So as they may not be what Al Qaeda once was, they still are in a newly adapted form.

I’m trying to put this as easy to understand as is possible. If you have specific questions I can explain a bit more.

Nevermind that most of those cells are voluntary disbanding because there is a severe morale crisis within AQ.

It's been all downhill for AQ since their 9/11 peak and 3/11 rebound.

Instead of the reformation of a Calitaph in the MiddleEast, dominated by their ideology, the US have gotten the majority of the ME to fight against AQ,

... especially Saudi Arabia, which had been very reluctant at first, but is now decisively winning its internal civil war against AQ, and may be extending its efforts into Iraq (to the assistance of the US there) for SA's own selfish interests of ensuring that Iran does not get to dominate Iraq.

.

Capturing/killing Bin Laden will be a decisive symbolic defeat/destruction of AQ... even though some cells will persist in their operations.

... but the bottom line would remain that the threat of another 9/11 would have been rendered null.

.

Meanwhile, it's now a wait-and-see approach for the US to "raid" Pakinstan (negotations/planning are still undergoing) to accomplish the symbolic goal, which will ensure the morale crisis that would significantly deflate the AQ organization.

[StrayRogue]

Miss X/Chica/Vic is alright. Heh, I should have realized: she'd never use public transport.

[Skirmisher]

Well thanks for making me laugh and letting us all know she is ok!

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Miss X/Chica/Vic is alright. Heh, I should have realized: she'd never use public transport.

Whew! Thanks for letting us know, Stray! :)

[Miss X]

Man, it is so weird around here. I live on the main commuter line to Liverpool street where one of the bombs went off so everyone knows someone who was commuting this morning. The atmosphere is really strange.

I have a friend who's sister was going to get on the bus that exploded this morning, but she missed it by five minutes. Ugh, it sucks.

[Kainen]

I been watching the news all morning and I just got home.. thank God or whoever you want to thank that the people that we know that post here are safe. I hope they find the pieces of shit that did this and hang them. I know this sounds terrible but all I could think about was if our UK posters were ok when I heard the news.

[Divinity]

Oh god, this is horrible. I truely hope you guys are okay.

I'm sending my thoughts out to you and please PLEASE becareful.

[Asha]

Heh, my lil girl gave me a hug for you Harmnone.
My whole family are fine.

:sleep:

[HarmNone]

Wonderful news, Drayal. I'll cherish that hug! :heart:

[Asha]

I do have to say by watching the response by the British people, that they seem to be an extremely resilient culture. It makes me proud that we have such strong willed allies in this day and age.
:::::::::::::::


That touched me, Fallen.
What an excellent thing to say.

[Gan]

Considering what they went through during WW2. Resiliency is in their blood.

They are a strong people and a strong culture. Will take alot more than acts of cowardice against the innocent to cripple them. If anything it will galvenize them into an even stronger opponent.

[Asha]

Good grief.
Hearing that kinda talk makes my blood feel like ice.
Thankyou for your respect. To our country and those who fight for it, in any way they can.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by xtc
I am sure there is a high probability that this could be the work of extremist Wahabi Muslims but the experts I watched didn't believe that they are Al Qaida.

See that is where it gets difficult if you don’t know what happened to the organization after the liberation of Afghanistan. What was once Al Qaeda has been destroyed. They had a international structure that we (those fighting in the war on terror) have managed to dismantle. The issue we now have is the hundreds of terrorist cells that were once loyal to Al Qaeda's central control are now acting on their own accord. So as they may not be what Al Qaeda once was, they still are in a newly adapted form.

I’m trying to put this as easy to understand as is possible. If you have specific questions I can explain a bit more.

I am familiar with Bin Laden’s organisation quite a bit. There are many small organisations that claim affiliation with Bin Laden’s group but have no association. When you say you are part of Bin Laden’s group it creates fear.

London has many mosques that practice Wahhabism. Many are very anti-England and anti-America. Clerics like Abu Hamza Al Masri have been preaching hate for years. If Bin Laden was behind this more people would have been killed. These bombs were poorly constructed and placed, according to the security experts I mentioned in my prior posts.

My guess is that these bombings will be the work of people involved in the radical mosques in London, not Bin Laden.

As an aside I have an Uncle in England who works for one of the British Intelligence services. I doubt he will tell me anything but if he does I will post it.

edited for typo

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by xtc]

[Drew]

Aren't Gothique and Eiderfluer british? Anyone know about them?

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Drew
Aren't Gothique and Eiderfluer british? Anyone know about them?

Gothi is in Ohio.

Eiderfluer may be British, I dunno.

[Asha]

Eider is British.
I think she used to live in London, but moved away.

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by Drayal]

Bin laden is not Al Qaeda in a sense anymore XTC, he is just a figurehead. He has no power due to his inability to do anything. The leftovers are those that plan.

Are you talking about that one eyed cleric?
All my paperwrork and notes are back in Washington.

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by Dave]

[xtc]

Originally posted by Dave
Bin laden is not Al Qaeda anymore XTC, he is just a figurehead.

Are you talking about that one eyed cleric?
All my paperwrork and notes are back in Washington.

I say Bin Laden, because Al Qaida is a media term. Bin Laden's group is called The World Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Jews and Crusaders. The term Al Qaida gets used for any group of "Muslims" that launch attacks.

Yes Abu Hamza Al Masri he is the blind/one eyed cleric in London.

[Ilvane]

I'm glad everyone is ok so far..What another terrible thing. We'll see who's responsible, though a group close to Al Queda is claiming responsibilty, according to CNN.

-A

XTC, you don't know what you're talking about in regards to Al Qaeda, so please dont spread disinformation.

I thought they picked up the one eyed cleric a while ago for something... Might be getting things mixed up though.

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by Dave]

[xtc]

Originally posted by Dave
XTC, you don't know what you're talking about.

Dave I most certainly do. I have been following Bin Laden since you were a child.

LINK (http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/00000006DFED.htm)

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by xtc]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
He has no power due to his inability to do anything.
He still has power. Granted, it's in the form of mere words and ideas, but it invokes something within people who are sensitive to his "cause", or whatever the you want to call it.

[xtc]

Abu Hamza Al Masri was arrested in 2004 and sits in a British jail. I said clerics like him in London who spread hate, not him specifically.

Yes DEV, but not to the extent he once had, which is what I was trying to say. Of course on the off chance he gets a tape out (and we know how rare that is) he has a great amount of clout with those willing to be terrorists, but his ability to plan and direct the actions of those who take instruction from Al Qaeda is non existent at this point. With the leadership of Al Qaeda mostly dismantled, half ass attacks from them can be expected, due to the fact that the "greatest" minds that once controlled the organization are dead, or under the humane watchful eye of the U.S.

XTC, dealing with issues like terrorism, and Bin Laden is a large part of my job. So although you may have been following him since I was a "child" to assume you know everything about him, or the dealings of Al Qaeda is a gross misconception on your part.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Dave
XTC, dealing with issues like terrorism, and Bin Laden is a large part of my job. So although you may have been following him since I was a "child" to assume you know everything about him, or the dealings of Al Qaeda is a gross misconception on your part.

I don't pretend to know everything about Bin Laden. However I don't believe your access to information on Bin Laden is any greater than mine.

:shrug:

[Hulkein]

If anyone has problems admitting they're no longer as powerful as they once were - it's the French - not the British.

Edited to add - Hopefully everything is going better over there, and those responsible are brought to justice.

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by Hulkein]

[StrayRogue]

Anyone got any word on Eider?

[4a6c1]

I'm glad the British PC people are ok. And I'm glad Museum street is ok. No more mass transit for ya'll so we dont worry. And no more calling America's soldiers cannon fodder. Notnice naughtyness. :nono:

[StrayRogue]

I didn't understand his post either. But I echo Hulkein's sentiments on that the French are consistently history's bitches in regards to being pwned.

[Skirmisher]

Yes, no more of that.

It's been said already to keep that talk out of this thread.

[Asha]

No word on Eider, but she hasn't been around much for weeks. Maybe months.
Only once here and there.

Dude I'm positive she moved a long way away from London.
I'm positive she'll be fine.

[StrayRogue]

Yeah I know she was moving and going to LA sometime. Would be nice to put the mind at ease though ;). So far, you, me, Chica, Rikkan and Wulfhen have confirmed our immediate safety. Just a few others left now to do the same hopefully.

[Edited on 7-7-05 by StrayRogue]

[Caiylania]

I'm glad you guys are okay. I was on a road trip all day and didn't even hear about this until a few hours ago. Be safe my friends.

*goes off to actually read the thread now*

[OreoElf]

I hope everyone's friends and families are safe... for those that aren't I am sorry for the horrible losses anyone suffered today. Its a shame what people do and are capable of. Bastards!

[Skirmisher]

Thats good to hear at least, thank you for the information Drayal.

[OreoElf]

Players of Rohese/Cappyn and Foxlyn are safe also if anyone wanted to know :)

Edited to add:

This is not the time or place of bickering. If you want to do it go to another thread. I didn't ever hear anyone laughing at our terrible losses for 9/11. Whether it was preventable or not it was a horrible trajedy, just as the bombings in London are. Some people make me ashamed of humanity...

Its ridiculous to sit around bickering over something when there's a horrible trajedy that should pull us together in comeradeship... Just MHO

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by OreoElf]

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by OreoElf]

[Artha]

I don't mod this folder, but I'm thinking that Dave's job and/or Nieninque aren't subjects that should be discussed here. Have some fucking respect.

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by Artha]

[SayGoodbye]

Do we have a definite source of the attacks, or just speculation?

Also, what's the extent of the damage? How's it affecting you Londoner's?

Very glad to hear you're all alright.

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by HarmNone]

[OreoElf]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/

[Drew]

Omah's player is alright as well.

[Warriorbird]

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=918193

[Artha]

I don't think I've expressed how impressed I am with the London authorities turning off cell phone signals and stopping transport to prevent more people from dieing. That took some balls and I'm sure they'll be buried by paperwork for months.

I'm also very glad that our British posters are fine. Couldn't stop thinking about you guys during work today.

[Edaarin]

I've removed the posts that do not pertain to the original topic.

At least pretend to keep it civil in this thread.

[Asha]

I have to say, the caring responses from you guys have totally astounded me. I'm proud to be a part of these boards and have been especially touched by all the concern for our British friends here.
Without getting overly girly about what I wanted to say, I think you're all stars.
I really do.
:heart:

[HarmNone]

Thanks so much to those of you who are sharing what you know of others who might have been involved in this tragedy. It's like a weight is lifted each time I hear that someone who could have been hurt is okay.

As for the bickering and nastiness, those of you who can't figure out what's appropriate and what isn't.......SHUT THE FUCK UP!

*Edited because certain people pissed off my punctuation!*

[Edited on 7-7-2005 by HarmNone]

[FoxlynDragonfly]

I would like to say I am safe and sound. Thank you for your concern, I know most of you knew I would either be in London today or as most of you know I changed my mind and went last weekend. Lets say again my intuition has served me well, as well as having to work. I am happy to say my boyfriend and my brother's girlfriend are ok, both missed the train to work.
My heart goes out to all those who are still trying to find loved ones or who have lost. And I would like to point out to all those who are so sick enoguh to make jokes about this....you are the same as the people who did this....there is no word in the english dictionary to describe you.
You should be ashamed of yourselves, but I will never wish this upon your people.....
Katie (Buxom Northern Brit)
a.k.a Foxlyn:no:

[Forged]

Prayers go out to all the people affected by these nut jobs.

Hopefully this will get the REAL War on Terrorism back on track.

[Asha]

Wooaa Foxlyn!!
Where'd you spring from? And do you still live basicly next door to me?
Your pal
Shimm.

[HarmNone]

Good to hear you're okay, and that your loved ones are, as well, Foxlyn. Thanks for stopping in to let us know. :)

[FoxlynDragonfly]

You know I do sweetie! I still have my AIM on! You never on....*pouts*

[Asha]

Originally posted by FoxlynDragonfly
You know I do sweetie! I still have my AIM on! You never on....*pouts*

Ha, you'll notice everyone who tries to contact me hates that I do that.
I spend weeks , months, days ect, with it switched off. I just feel like I've talked enough all day, sometimes.

Still, excellent to know you're still hanging with the tough guys up north.
Big BIG hug.

[FoxlynDragonfly]

Well huni you know how cute I am, wink wink wink. Hey you have my mob number, so text or call! *Pokes* And you think you have to talk try designing kitchens to dumbasses. Heh heh.

[OreoElf]

glad your safe Katie love you :heart:

[Jolena]

Was just reading and watching some news on abcnews.com and the London officials have said they found 2 explosives that were not detonated so far. They will be looking into those bombs to try to find out more about where they came from and who set them off. They also found that all four of the detonated bombs were set off by remote timers rather then suicide bombers but are still saying that this appears to be a "Classic Al'Queda" attack.

Also the death toll is now over 50 with over 700 injured. They are still trying to gather a more accurate toll on the deaths however.

[Warriorbird]

Yeah. I posted a link a bit higher up. Probably should've added some explanation text.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Jolena
Also the death toll is now over 50 with over 700 injured. They are still trying to gather a more accurate toll on the deaths however.

oh man that is so horrible. very bummed out. Just got "I'm safe" emails from my buddies in London Town.

[Atlanteax]

I was not sure what to make out of it...

Perhaps it's more of a testament to British resilency?

[FoxlynDragonfly]

We have been nothing but resilient. Through out our history...which is very long....we have stood and taken whatever has been thrown at us. I am proud to be British and I am proud at how all those people shrugged off their fears and went to work on friday to get on with their lives. That is true strength in my eyes. We survived alot worse in WW2.

[HarmNone]

You've got a lot to be proud of, hon. My condolences to all who lost loved ones, and to all who were injured. I hope the injured heal quickly, and that all goes back to normal in dear ol' London town.

[Artha]

Police Evacuate Birmingham centre (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4668313.stm)

[Miss X]

:(

Leave our country alone!

[HarmNone]

I'll remain hopeful that this latest evacuation will prove to have been unnecessary.

[JadeScarlet]

Okay,

So I was in the US last week on holiday, and my plane landed in London about noonish on the 7th. My boyfriend turned on his phone and saw a voicemail message from his dad, phoned his dad, and got all the news.

We got our bags and investigated, learning that all transportation was shut down other than taxis and the police were advising people to stay out of central London.

We had plans to go to PT-London (Pro tour for magic the gathering). We had also booked a hotel near the pro tour since it would be really convenient to stay nearby and hotels have bigger beds than my tiny dorm room :-)

We decided to stick with our plans and got a taxi into London. The taxi queue was huge since it was really the only way to leave the airport unless you had friends with a car or could rent a car. The airport officials were poorly organised at first but it started getting better as they went through, asking everyone where they were going and started doubling people up in the taxis if they were going to the same or nearby destinations. We shared a taxi with another guy on his way to a hotel near ours so the cost was split in half.

We got to the hotel, I went to the internet room, bought 20 minutes of time to post in a few places, send a few emails, etc. which was why my last "I'm okay" post was really short.

Then Andy and I spent the weekend at the pro tour playing magic nonstop and had lots of fun.

We took the underground back to my place yesterday, which was crowded and busy like it always is (we had to take the district line instead of the picadilly line, but since they really go the same number of stops it didn't matter for time).

Today I went to the arch. department to get back to doing work even though I'd like to pretend I'm still on holiday and spend the day with the boyfriend, who's only in town another week. The bus bomb was only 2 blocks away from the archaeology department and I can see from the front of the building the barricade set up by the police who are guarding the site. Its kind of scary at how close it really was.

I used to live closer to kings cross, and I walked down that street every day to get to school.

Thats my update. I hope everyone else is okay.

[Asha]

Damn glad to hear you're ok.
Good stuff indeed.
:heart: