When do we get Straight White-Man Pride day?

[StrayRogue]

When do we get Straight White-Man Pride day?

[DeV]

Just about everyday.

[StrayRogue]

LOL yeah ok.

[Warriorbird]

We're a minority now in America at least. Dunno about over there.

[StrayRogue]

Totally. We just don't have the minority status. We don't have a straight white man quota to fill in certain careers. When a straight white guy gets beat up its just an assault. It happens to anyone else and its a hate-crime etc.

[Miss X]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
When do we get Straight White-Man Pride day?

When Caucasian people have been as oppressed for no reason as ethnic minoroties are (or were in some cases), in our country.

And

When heterosexual people are as targeted and discriminated against for no reason, as homosexuals in our country.



[Edited on 24-6-05 by Miss X]

[Warriorbird]

England. Reppin the straight white man thing since at least 1066!

[Killer Kitten]

You straight white guys might be a minority, but you pretty much own everything.

:saint:

[StrayRogue]

Oh come on. Up here where I AM in the minority you cannot say that such things do not work the other way around as well. The same can be said for even worse places such as Bradford etc. A few years back alot of Asian and Packistani folk were complaining that they weren't getting hired due to their racial background. The accusation of being racist etc scared alot of companies into hiring said folk simply BECAUSE of their ethnicity.

As I said, a woman feels she's been harassed, its sexism. An asian guy gets a kick in its a racist hate crime.

[DeV]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
It happens to anyone else and its a hate-crime etc. Eh, minorities are arrested for hate crimes as well.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by StrayRogue
It happens to anyone else and its a hate-crime etc. Eh, minorities are arrested for hate crimes as well.

Not against white people over here.

[Miss X]

The other half of the split thread is here, I figured if there is going to be a big debate I don't want it to disrupt PB's thread. :)

[Edited on 24-6-05 by Miss X]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Miss X
The other half of the split thread is here, I figured if there is going to be a big debate I don't wan tit to disrupt PB's thread. :)

YOU SAID TIT!

[Miss X]

Lies!! ;)

[CrystalTears]

:lol: Not only is PB a senior citizen and a closet case, he has tits!

I don't understand why we can't have it. I am very proud of being white and straight, but when I announce I am automatically labeled as a hate monger. It's rather sickening that just because I am a proud white straight male that I cannot express it.

I strongly support white pride (not power, idiots) parades or straight pride parades. It's about celebrating what you are and your heritage. What's so bad about that?

- Arkans

[DeV]

Originally posted by Arkans
I strongly support white pride (not power, idiots) parades or straight pride parades. It's about celebrating what you are and your heritage. What's so bad about that?

- Arkans Nothing is wrong with it.

Personally, I don't support a need for gay pride weekend and you will never catch me at a gay pride parade, but I do support being proud of who you are and all that it encompasses.

I find parades unappealing in the first place since their intended to be flashy and having been to one pride parade it is definitely not my style, and it generally creates more controversy than anything. But, that shouldn't stop people from enjoying themselves regardless of what I think.

Now, I have white guy friends who are proud of their heritage and I don't have a problem with them expressing it and neither do my other friends. I think if you support it so strongly you should get out there and do something about it. Walk the walk... don't just talk about it if it means that much to you.

You think I don't? Seriously, everyone knows I'm proud of what I am. I don't hide it. If there was a straight white pride parade, I'd most likely attend it or support it in some way, just it's not available to me.

- Arkans

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Arkans

I strongly support white pride (not power, idiots) parades or straight pride parades. It's about celebrating what you are and your heritage. What's so bad about that?

- Arkans

The stigma with that is associated with "white pride" and the hate that it brings up. It's usually associated with racism and bigotry.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Arkans
You think I don't? Seriously, everyone knows I'm proud of what I am. I don't hide it. If there was a straight white pride parade, I'd most likely attend it or support it in some way, just it's not available to me.

- Arkans

You just live far too north for the White Pride parades. Move down south and you can attend them. Here, I picked out your outfit too:

Feh, us Grand Wizards don't wear white!

- Arkans

[SnatchWrangler]

My buddy always commented about the existence of BET (Black Entertainment Television).

He said once he becomes rich, he'll start a white entertainment channel, and call it WET.

But then it would be confused for a porno channel. Oh well.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by SnatchWrangler]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Arkans
If there was a straight white pride parade, I'd most likely attend it or support it in some way, just it's not available to me.

- Arkans It'd be kind of hard to dissassociate the stigma associated with being outwardly proud of your white race, granted. A few bad apples spoil the bunch and that's the case with groups who have fought hard against the minority status in this country.

Black pride is usually associated with the Black Panthers and their call for Black Power, which is usually associated with racism against whites.

White pride is usually associated with
the KKK and their call for White Power, which is usually associated with racism against blacks.

[Skirmisher]

Pride in being white perplexes me.

Pride in one's culture, the traditions and such I can follow, but what cultural traditions are "white"

Sorry, it's just a silly way to word it.

Want to be proud of your german/polish/french/english history, knock yourself out, just be specific because I have yet to see a "white" culture that wasn't already part of another group and really just hijacked by some prejudiced group or another to put a kinder gentler face on their all too ugly intents.

I don't believe you think that way, so I beg of you to rethink through your support of "white pride" and funnel it into something a little more applicable no matter what that may be.

[StrayRogue]

The moment I start saying I'm proud to be British I'm put in the BNP party which means I'm a hateful nasty racist. Same with disagreeing or disliking Judasim makes me an anti-semite.

[Skirmisher]

You can't be proud to be British?

How wacky.

You all have a kick ass history.

(excluding that little Yorktown incident of course.)

[Trinitis]

I argued for HOURS about this when I was in highschool. In this town, about 85% of the school population is hispanic. On Cinco De Mayo, the entire hispanic population of my highschool got to spend the entire day having a huge party with a live band and BBQ and such. The rest of us still had to attend class. I was livid, and made damn sure the school officials knew about it. From that point on in HS, I caught a lot of shit from my hispanic classmates for hating their culture.

I tried to explain to them that I was fine with their party. By all means, have a blast! But I think it's pretty fucked up that 85% of the school got to party all day, while the rest of us were forced to listen to it, and sit in class.

[Skirmisher]

Don make me cut you mang!

[DeV]

Originally posted by Adredrin
I tried to explain to them that I was fine with their party. By all means, have a blast! But I think it's pretty fucked up that 85% of the school got to party all day, while the rest of us were forced to listen to it, and sit in class. Well done... that's what needs to happen when obvious racial differences are further exploited when they do things like that. Every student should have been involved if it was so important to have a party the entire day. At least you spoke up about it.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
You can't be proud to be British?

How wacky.

You all have a kick ass history.

(excluding that little Yorktown incident of course.)

Unfortunately no. Thats my point. As Arkans mentioned the moment you say you're proud to be white and proud of your heritage you're instantly a racist. The British National Party is pretty much a watered down KKK over here which is our equivilent label.

Another similar issue arose last week. The first black Archbishop of York was appointed the other day. And fucking hell, the amount of media coverage it got and why? Because of his policies, his beliefs. Nope, because he was black.

[Trinitis]

Yes, I did. But then again, as I've said before, growing up I had some pretty deverse friends.

I had one friend that we joked about him being the whitest black man we knew (and he agreed.)

Then you have Dainslef, who is the whitest Mexican I know (and he agrees).

Both of which, I might add, were a bit put off by the party. After I got done with my bitch fest, we all just walked out of the school.

:shrug:

[Skirmisher]

Hey, I'm proud to be American and will say it anywhere and to anyone I darned well please.

I just think the "white" aspect of it is stupid as our history and culture is an amalgam of far more than just white people.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I just think the "white" aspect of it is stupid as our history and culture is an amalgam of far more than just white people.>>

I could have sworn that all the Europeans that settled here and built the country were white.

So, wait, it's stupid to be proud to be white, but it's okay to be proud to be any other minority group?

- Arkans

You also forget that the "Young, White, Male" is the only group of people who are discriminated against by law.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by StrayRogue
It happens to anyone else and its a hate-crime etc. Eh, minorities are arrested for hate crimes as well.

Not against white people over here.

My opinion of you dropped a few thousand feet Stay :(

[StrayRogue]

You're a woman. You wouldn't understand.

Actually, my mother does hiring and I can tell you for certain this practiced by her and her co-workers as well as most people that look at a resume:

1. Black name (Latonda, Tyrell, Laquisha) resumes are automatically tossed aside.

2. If you get a name like Michael, they immediately look for where they are from.. Predominately black neighborhood? Yeah, you can work, just not here.

3. All three of those fail? Yeah, well, they'll fail at the interview.

4. Age. Too old? Fuck you. Younger doesn't have an issue with getting a job, but employers do realize that it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

These are all very true scenarios and happen on VERY frequent instances. The only reason minorities get hired is becase either a quota needs to be filled or a minority is actually hiring, or possibly there is one that is so incredibly good that they get the job.

- Arkans

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Pride in being white perplexes me.

Pride in one's culture, the traditions and such I can follow, but what cultural traditions are "white"

Sorry, it's just a silly way to word it.

Want to be proud of your german/polish/french/english history, knock yourself out, just be specific because I have yet to see a "white" culture that wasn't already part of another group and really just hijacked by some prejudiced group or another to put a kinder gentler face on their all too ugly intents.

I don't believe you think that way, so I beg of you to rethink through your support of "white pride" and funnel it into something a little more applicable no matter what that may be.

I dont think it's silly to be proud to be Black, White or whatever. If you are Black, be proud of who you are and what you are. Same if you are white. What's wrong with being part of that. The problems come, not when people start being proud of who/what they are, but when they start thinking that they are superior to people that are different to them.

That's what would put Stay in the BNP, not being proud of being white.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
You're a woman. You wouldn't understand.

OMFG

I cant believe you said that.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Dave
You also forget that the "Young, White, Male" is the only group of people who are discriminated against by law.

Excuse me while I roleplay:

"..."

What.

The.

Fuck.

[StrayRogue]

I'm not in the BNP. I'm not racist, ageist, sexist, or anything. The only problem I have is with people who are the above things. However the straight white man is the ONLY "type" of person these days who isn't catered for or treated specially because of sexuality, race, colour or sex. I believe everyone should be treated equally and unfortunately thats not the way it works. People should be able to get jobs and treated the way they are due to their skill, education and person skills. Not because they're a woman or the office needs an "office black man".

[Keller]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by StrayRogue
You're a woman. You wouldn't understand.

OMFG

I cant believe you said that.

I think he's pulling a Stanley.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Keller

Originally posted by Dave
You also forget that the "Young, White, Male" is the only group of people who are discriminated against by law.

Excuse me while I roleplay:

"..."

What.

The.

Fuck.

Consider the source...

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by StrayRogue
You're a woman. You wouldn't understand.

OMFG

I cant believe you said that.

Since when were you a straight white man? Oh I'm sorry never. Like women are so fond of saying "YOU DON'T/CAN'T UNDERSTAND".

Yeah, that claim was pretty bullshit. Young white males are the only group.. Riiiiight.

- Arkans

Originally posted by Arkans
Actually, my mother does hiring and I can tell you for certain this practiced by her and her co-workers as well as most people that look at a resume:

1. Black name (Latonda, Tyrell, Laquisha) resumes are automatically tossed aside.

2. If you get a name like Michael, they immediately look for where they are from.. Predominately black neighborhood? Yeah, you can work, just not here.

3. All three of those fail? Yeah, well, they'll fail at the interview.

4. Age. Too old? Fuck you. Younger doesn't have an issue with getting a job, but employers do realize that it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

These are all very true scenarios and happen on VERY frequent instances. The only reason minorities get hired is becase either a quota needs to be filled or a minority is actually hiring, or possibly there is one that is so incredibly good that they get the job.

- Arkans

The question to ask is what is the reasoning behind that? Is it racism or have they had bad experiences in the past and do not want to go through them unless they have to?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
You also forget that the "Young, White, Male" is the only group of people who are discriminated against by law. I swear, I know alot of white guys feel this way, but you seriously sound like your black counterparts more and more.

Both, Dave.

Just too clarify. They experienced both fucking up, but are far less tolerant of blacks fucking up. There comes in the race issue.

- Arkans

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Arkans]

Originally posted by Arkans
Yeah, that claim was pretty bullshit. Young white males are the only group.. Riiiiight.

- Arkans

Affirmative action. Old, minority, female are all covered under it to some degree.
White, young, male is not.
As I said, by law. ;)

[Keller]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'm not in the BNP. I'm not racist, ageist, sexist, or anything. The only problem I have is with people who are the above things. However the straight white man is the ONLY "type" of person these days who isn't catered for or treated specially because of sexuality, race, colour or sex. I believe everyone should be treated equally and unfortunately thats not the way it works. People should be able to get jobs and treated the way they are due to their skill, education and person skills. Not because they're a woman or the office needs an "office black man".

Come up with a solution to institutionalized race/sex-ism and you can complain about the current solution.

Please don't say something ignorant like, "We could all just treat people the same."

It's institutional. It's not something that will just magically change.

I doubt it can happen in this or the next generation, but the education needs to start of the youngest members of our society to try and combat it.

- Arkans

[StrayRogue]

I agree Arkans.

Originally posted by Arkans
I doubt it can happen in this or the next generation, but the education needs to start of the youngest members of our society to try and combat it.

- Arkans

Agreed, social change is slow, but it is getting better with each generation. In the 40 years since the civil rights movement was in full force we have come a ways, but have a long way to go still.


Edit: added a THE

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Dave]

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'm not in the BNP. I'm not racist, ageist, sexist, or anything. The only problem I have is with people who are the above things. However the straight white man is the ONLY "type" of person these days who isn't catered for or treated specially because of sexuality, race, colour or sex. I believe everyone should be treated equally and unfortunately thats not the way it works. People should be able to get jobs and treated the way they are due to their skill, education and person skills. Not because they're a woman or the office needs an "office black man".

He does have a point. I think affirmative action needs to slowly creep out the door.

The average young, white male has to work twice as hard and be twice as worthy of hire than a minority in order to get the job whey they are equally capable of doing as the other guy. The minority get it because they are a minority. White males don't get anything special for being white males.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Keller]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Arkans
Yeah, that claim was pretty bullshit. Young white males are the only group.. Riiiiight.

- Arkans

Affirmative action. Old, minority, female are all covered under it to some degree.
White, young, male is not.
As I said, by law. ;)

De jure legislation and you're still standing on quick-sand.

De facto implementation and you've got nothing but an infinite abyss of bullshit to fall into.

Either way I plead with you to keep your fingers occupied building diarama's and not using a keyboard.

I'm a little leary of saying, "They got jobs easier, because they are minorities" it makes us no different when the crazed guy says, "OH HE ONLY GOT PROMOTED BECUASE HE'S WHITE!!!"

Let's be very careful of this.

- Arkans

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'm not in the BNP. I'm not racist, ageist, sexist, or anything. The only problem I have is with people who are the above things. However the straight white man is the ONLY "type" of person these days who isn't catered for or treated specially because of sexuality, race, colour or sex. I believe everyone should be treated equally and unfortunately thats not the way it works. People should be able to get jobs and treated the way they are due to their skill, education and person skills. Not because they're a woman or the office needs an "office black man".

He does have a point. I think affirmative action needs to slowly creep out the door.

The average young, white male has to work twice as hard and be twice as worthy of hire than a minority in order to get the job whey they are equally capable of doing as the other guy. The minority get it because they are a minority. White males don't get anything special for being white males.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears]

We have a winner. But I don't think people should get anything special. Equality is everyone having an equal chance.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Miss X
When Caucasian people have been as oppressed for no reason as ethnic minoroties are (or were in some cases), in our country.You don't think the Irish or the Scottish were ever oppressed by the English? The Welsh probably were too, but come on, they're Welsh. They deserve it.

As for America, at various points in our history: Irish, Italians, Germans, Slavs, Russians. I don't think there's any ethnic or racial category we haven't oppressed.
Originally posted by Skirmisher
but what cultural traditions are "white"Kicking ass, of course. Woo!

But seriously, I'm positive that there is historically no more "yellow" or "black" culture than "white". As an aside, I saw a book the other day that said our concept of races with humanity has no scientific correlation. By which I mean the divisions created by "white" and "black" are totally arbitrary and genetically inaccurate. It was in response to the Bell Curve, which is all I can remember. Working in a library is a blessing and a curse.
Originally posted by Nieninque
What's wrong with being part of that.Nobody earns their skin color. One should not be proud of something one does not earn.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by CrystalTears
He does have a point. I think affirmative action needs to slowly creep out the door.

The average young, white male has to work twice as hard and be twice as worthy of hire than a minority in order to get the job whey they are equally capable of doing as the other guy. The minority get it because they are a minority. White males don't get anything special for being white males.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears]

We have a winner. But I don't think people should get anything special. Equality is everyone having an equal chance.

I definitely agree that we need to gain equality, I was just saying that white males now don't get any help, advice or leg-ups for being white males, which is a tremendous disadvantage to be a minority in your own country.

I take it you are not proud of anything of the following:

1. Being an American
2. Your ethnicity
3. Possibly even your religion.

Sad state of affairs.

- Arkans

[Keller]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'm not in the BNP. I'm not racist, ageist, sexist, or anything. The only problem I have is with people who are the above things. However the straight white man is the ONLY "type" of person these days who isn't catered for or treated specially because of sexuality, race, colour or sex. I believe everyone should be treated equally and unfortunately thats not the way it works. People should be able to get jobs and treated the way they are due to their skill, education and person skills. Not because they're a woman or the office needs an "office black man".

He does have a point. I think affirmative action needs to slowly creep out the door.

The average young, white male has to work twice as hard and be twice as worthy of hire than a minority in order to get the job whey they are equally capable of doing as the other guy. The minority get it because they are a minority. White males don't get anything special for being white males.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears]

White males get nothing but hundreds of years of accumulated capital and social status.

And please refrain from butchering an argument using hyperbole like "twice as hard and twice as worthy." It makes you look plain dumb.

Jody Armour wrote a splendid article on the issue of affirmative action. He clearly articulates the purpose to level an uneven field. In effect to remove an unfair de jure advantage given to white (male) children. I think it was called Just Dessert if anyone has an interest in reading it.

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
The average young, white male has to work twice as hard and be twice as worthy of hire than a minority in order to get the job whey they are equally capable of doing as the other guy. The minority get it because they are a minority. White males don't get anything special for being white males.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears] What!? Did you not just read Arkans post on hiring practices, that are VERY common practically everywhere. Actually, your entire post is suspect.

I call bullshit when black guys complain about their lot in life also, because all he has to do is DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT in order to improve their situation. I always stress education because without it you won't get very far.

How do you know they have to work twice as hard? How do you know affirmative action is pushing out young, white males in place of any and all minorities?

I work in a company where I can count on one hand the number of blacks that are employeed here so I really do not understand how people can say white males have to work twice as hard just to find a job.

Edited to add your instead of the.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by DeV]

I'd also like to take my post on hiring practices even further. For some reason (and it actually appears to be lack of applying) black canidates are not really going for the middle and upper management positions. My mother and her co-workers do not see black names often, it's just when they do that they are tossed aside. Also something to consider.

- Arkans

[CrystalTears]

Arkans explains hiring practices in one place, not in general (at least that's how I took it), so if that place has something against black people, that's their problem.

That's just how I see it. I've seen some good white males have a hard time getting a job, people who have great skills and experience, only to see someone who is a minority get the job, with no other skills or experience to compensate for it. I've seen it happen, so I'm only speaking from my perspective.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by CrystalTears
He does have a point. I think affirmative action needs to slowly creep out the door.

The average young, white male has to work twice as hard and be twice as worthy of hire than a minority in order to get the job whey they are equally capable of doing as the other guy. The minority get it because they are a minority. White males don't get anything special for being white males.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears]

We have a winner. But I don't think people should get anything special. Equality is everyone having an equal chance.

I definitely agree that we need to gain equality, I was just saying that white males now don't get any help, advice or leg-ups for being white males, which is a tremendous disadvantage to be a minority in your own country.

You just won the bonus stage. +1000000 pts.

CT, my example includes more than one place. These are multiple people, hiring in different areas, with no prior knowledge of each other or their beliefs and they all have the same practices. Does this scientifically prove my case? No, it proves it on the individual basis, but I really have a hard time swallowing that these random people are all "isolated" instances.

- Arkans

[StrayRogue]

The introduction of the term "office black guy" came from the "need" to hire racial minorities for the company to more racially diverse. Now alot of these people may be the best people for the job, but you're ignorant if you think some minorities haven't gotten jobs because of their race or background and not just because of their qualifications.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Arkans
1. Being an AmericanI am thankful for being an American, for the freedoms I enjoy, and for the people whose lives and deaths ensured these freedoms.

A birthright is nothing of which one should be proud. Being an American is my birthright.
Your ethnicityI don't consider ethnicity to be at all important beyond identification, by which I mean: "Which guy are you talking about?" "The black guy." It just shouldn't matter.
Possibly even your religion.Christianity is something I was born into. My particular (probably heretical) interpretation of my religion is something of which I'm a bit proud.

Not taking pride in something is not the same as not wanting to be something. I take pride in my work, in my music. I don't take pride in having 2 lungs. Why would I?

Stray, as far as this arguement is concerned, I agree with you 100%. Things are screwed up and, unfortunately, the white male is hurting for it in some instances. Do I believe it is as rampant here in the US as it might be in the UK? I'm not sure. I havn't looked into. Though we can all agree.. A color blind society can never be achieved by looking at the color of skin.

- Arkans

[StrayRogue]

Yeah Arkans. I've got no experience of it on the US side, but I can say 100% I've experienced and seen it happen over here. Is it as bad as say slavery or not allowing women to vote? Probably not, but saying the problem doesn't exist is being plain ignorant.

Originally posted by DeV

I call bullshit when black guys complain about their lot in life also, because all he has to do is DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT in order to improve their situation. I always stress education because without it you won't get very far.


Right there is the problem. Education, the building block of success. There is a socioeconomic difference ( i say that because it applies across the spectrum, all races) that those who live in America and reside in the lower income brackets decide that an education is not as important. I don't feel that it is the quality of teacher as much as the motivation of the student in the inner city school. If you want to learn you can and will.


As to keller's comments. Most people don't have 200 years of family history in the united states to gather money. My family comes from a humble background, The dutch side were all fishermen, and when my great grandfather came over here he started a waste disposable business with very little money, but through work and determination he was extremely successful. My father being first generation, worked hard for a living and succeeded in life because he was an entrepreneur. To assume just because you are "white" that you have an advantage because of the amount of money your ancestors passed onto you is an ignorant argument to say the least.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Dave]

[Doyle Hargraves]

How about we just stop teaching American history at schools and wipe it out from the world records for the next generation as well.

That way black people of today (not all of them of course) won't be able to whine about things that happened centuries before any of us were born and use the racism crutch to their advantage.

Because 200 years ago white people owned black slaves somehow means that all whites today are racist and we owe them for something that nobody alive today had anything to do with, black or white.

I was in the grocery store yesterday and saw a magazine called BLACK HAIR.

I don't have a problem with that, but what I do have a problem with is that if a magazine came out called WHITE HAIR, there would be a huge uproar over it, accusing WHITE HAIR magazine of being racist.

Anyone that says there wouldn't be is full of shit or just ignorant.

I remember watching a flash movie not long ago (if anyone has seen it, please post or U2U me the link, I forgot to bookmark it) and the last line went something like:

"...because everybody's a racist...except me, because I'm black."

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

Okay, going to take this a bit further. Some might disagree with me, some might not. Race is actually a really important topic of discussion for me, thus I keep going at it.

Okay, for your Brits.

1. It appears as though Blacks assimilate into the general UK society. They accept the customs, speak the language. This of course are the multi-generational blacks, not the ones fresh off the boat from Africa/South Africa. How badly are they discriminated.. How badly are they currenly discriminated against?

2. I know there is a huge Pakistani and Indian population in Britian. I've heard that these parts of town have deteriorated and these people do not do well in assimilating how true is this? How badly are they and were they discriminated?

3. The same goes from the Africans from former colonies that are straight off the boat?


Also, how quickly has the minority population been growing in Britian? Has it slowed? Have people become out raged? If so, why? Do neighborhoods that they live in deteriorate?

- Arkans

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'm not in the BNP. I'm not racist, ageist, sexist, or anything. The only problem I have is with people who are the above things. However the straight white man is the ONLY "type" of person these days who isn't catered for or treated specially because of sexuality, race, colour or sex. I believe everyone should be treated equally and unfortunately thats not the way it works. People should be able to get jobs and treated the way they are due to their skill, education and person skills. Not because they're a woman or the office needs an "office black man".

He does have a point. I think affirmative action needs to slowly creep out the door.

The average young, white male has to work twice as hard and be twice as worthy of hire than a minority in order to get the job whey they are equally capable of doing as the other guy. The minority get it because they are a minority. White males don't get anything special for being white males.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears]

He would have a point if he were living somewhere where affirmative action existed, but he doesnt, so he doesnt.

Policy and legislation in the UK is made by white males (predominantly). The areas where I would agree that men have it tough, are those around childcare and family issues...but guess what? that's as a result of men telling women for years that they are the ones that should be looking after the kids, that they are the ones that need to have fucked up pension rights because their NI contributions were interrupted because they were looking after the kids as expected of them.

We dont have quotas in the UK. the people that have to work twice as hard to get anywhere are women and minorities who are still underpaid and under-represented in the higher echelons of the workplace.

[StrayRogue]

Heres another example of this problem - at the BBC talent website there is a competition asking for ASIAN people to write a screenplay for something. Wheres the "WHITE MAN ONLY" contests?

[Bobmuhthol]

I know the flash you're talking about, Doyle, but it's not up anymore apparently.

http://z.wimp.com/a/hatta.swf

[StrayRogue]

LOL, yes we do have quota's Nien. I've experienced it personally. I live amongst one of the biggest Asian populations in the country.

Arkans:

1: There is still the odd news story of black people being stopped all the time by police, but beyond that I'd say they're treated pretty equally (except by a few minorities like the BNP).

2: Some area's have deteriorated, but I don't think thats to do with the fact of colour, more its a problem of immigrants coming over with little to no money to support themselves and relying on the government to do so. White people live in similar squallor too. They have formed communities that can be very anti-white/english and many folk complain of assimilation by these immigrants who bring their familes over and begin to take over the towns/areas etc. I personally believe this is a cultural refusal to mix.

3: No idea.

Immigration is a problem here now. Its grown massively since Labour came in.

[Doyle Hargraves]

1. It appears as though Blacks assimilate into the general UK society. They accept the customs, speak the language. This of course are the multi-generational blacks, not the ones fresh off the boat from Africa/South Africa. How badly are they discriminated.. How badly are they currenly discriminated against?

That reminds me of something I've been wondering...

Are blacks in England referred to as "black" or as "African Englishman" or some other equally stupid politically correct term?

How about a black guy in China? Are they called "African Chinamen?"

Probably not.

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Arkans explains hiring practices in one place, not in general (at least that's how I took it), so if that place has something against black people, that's their problem.It's a nationwide epidemic and it should be everyone's problem, unfortunately it isn't.



That's just how I see it. I've seen some good white males have a hard time getting a job, people who have great skills and experience, only to see someone who is a minority get the job, with no other skills or experience to compensate for it. I've seen it happen, so I'm only speaking from my perspective. And I see good black males have a trememduously difficult time getting a job, only to see someone who is a white male or female get the job even with they have similiar or better education, not to mention skills and experience. It happens both ways.

[StrayRogue]

Heh. I'd like to be called Anglo Germanic Male or whatever the fuck I'd be if the world got more pretentious like this.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Arkans explains hiring practices in one place, not in general (at least that's how I took it), so if that place has something against black people, that's their problem.It's a nationwide epidemic and it should be everyone's problem, unfortunately it isn't.



That's just how I see it. I've seen some good white males have a hard time getting a job, people who have great skills and experience, only to see someone who is a minority get the job, with no other skills or experience to compensate for it. I've seen it happen, so I'm only speaking from my perspective. And I see good black males have a trememduously difficult time getting a job, only to see someone who is a white male or female get the job even with they have similiar or better education, not to mention skills and experience. It happens both ways.

Oh I do realize that it happens on both sides, and it's unfortunate that white men should feel that way. It shouldn't be happening at all. No one should be discriminated by the color of their skin, only by their skills and experience.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
I was in the grocery store yesterday and saw a magazine called BLACK HAIR.
Hargraves] Because black hairstyles and products are not advertised in white hair magazines. There existed a need for it and someone put it out. If magazines that advertise styles for white and black hair would be marketed and done so successfully this would not be necessary.

[4a6c1]

And now it is time for 'CREEPY POST OF THE DAY'.

News report. The 'race' factor in science. Source slightly slanted.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050618.wxrace0618/BNStory/Front/

ongoing: The Haplotype Project

http://www.sanger.ac.uk/HGP/Chr6/MHC/

finished: The Human Genome Project

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/home.shtml



[Edited on 6-24-2005 by JihnasSpirit]

[Keller]

Dave: The very fact that your fishing ancestors CHOSE to come over here and had the assets to do it should tell you something. The fact that they were white when being a white male was de jure legally beneficial should tell you something else. The fact that you're still ignorant as hell should clue you into the fact that diaramas and not discussions are your forte.

Doyle: I'm white and I'm "whining." Unless you want to make the argument that black people are genetically dumber/less motivated then you're going to have to concede that slavery's impact stretches into today's society and will always be an social detractor for a society of people who don't have the luxury of tutors, prep classes, and day-care.

You can't take advantage of hundreds of years of legal protection and then say, "Oh shit -- that was wrong. I guess we'll just all be equal now."

I. N. S. T. I. T. U. T. I. O. N. A. L.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Keller]

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol

I could have sworn that all the Europeans that settled here and built the country were white.

What did you get in history again Bob?


Whatever it is it was too high and your teachers should be flogged.

[Bobmuhthol]

Congrats.

Originally posted by Keller
Dave: The very fact that your fishing ancestors CHOSE to come over here and had the assets to do it should tell you something. The fact that they were white when being a white male was de jure legally beneficial should tell you something else. The fact that you're still ignorant as hell should clue you into the fact that diaramas and not discussions are your forte.
I dont think that my family had the idea of getting ahead in America because they were white ever crossed their minds.

If it means being ignorant to believe that hard work and a unyielding determination can get you ahead, I will gladly remain ignorant for the rest of my life.

Yeah you're right, a fishermen off the dutch coast is going to be full of money. It is called saving, instead of spending your money on things one can be frugal and save it so they can buy a ticket for a boat. That does not make them rich, that makes them responsible.
And yes, my fathers side was so rich that two of the four children died on the long trip to the United States from what is now the Czech Republic.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Dave]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Congrats.

She is right though, look into history a bit more.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
I was in the grocery store yesterday and saw a magazine called BLACK HAIR.
Hargraves] Because black hairstyles and products are not advertised in white hair magazines. There existed a need for it and someone put it out. If magazines that advertise styles for white and black hair would be marketed and done so successfully this would not be necessary.

I don't read hair magazines so I can't argue that, fair enough. It was just an example though.

How about EBONY magazine? Where's WHITE magazine?

How about Black Entertainment Television? Can you imagine the uproar if they came out with White Entertainment Television?

And saying something like "It's already out there. It's called every other <magazine, TV channel, etc.> is a copout.

I even hear about black college football and other shit like that.

I just don't understand how blacks can have all these "black" things like that and then call whites racist in the same breath.

For the record, I have nothing against black people. I just have a problem with douchebags, regardless of their color.

[Sean]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
The introduction of the term "office black guy" came from the "need" to hire racial minorities for the company to more racially diverse. Now alot of these people may be the best people for the job, but you're ignorant if you think some minorities haven't gotten jobs because of their race or background and not just because of their qualifications.

I could say the same thing about a lot of white or asian men/women as well. If may not come from the same venue (Affirmative Action or whatever the british equiv may be) but it would be just as ignorant to say some white men don't gain status and position when they aren't the best qualified candidate either.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
That reminds me of something I've been wondering...

I agree with you to an extent. I use the terms white and black or hispanic when describing race and the only time I'm forced to use African American, European American, Asian American, Mexican American, and so on is when writing papers for school. I usually just call people by their names. It's much easier despite its lack of political correctness.

[StrayRogue]

Totally Tijay. However racial minorities have a platform. If you see something that has happened that is due to an issue of racism, say a white guy getting a job over a black guy because he was black, you can speak out against that and people WILL listen. The same goes for women. In my own experiences the same cannot be said for white men, however. In fact I'd go as far as to say if the above scenario was raised the white complainer would be accused of racism for saying he should have gotten the job over a black man.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Keller
Dave: The very fact that your fishing ancestors CHOSE to come over here and had the assets to do it should tell you something. The fact that they were white when being a white male was de jure legally beneficial should tell you something else. The fact that you're still ignorant as hell should clue you into the fact that diaramas and not discussions are your forte.
I dont think that my family had the idea of getting ahead in America because they were white ever crossed their minds.

If it means being ignorant to believe that hard work and a unyielding determination can get you ahead, I will gladly remain ignorant for the rest of my life.

Yeah you're right, a fishermen off the dutch coast is going to be full of money. It is called saving, instead of spending your money on things one can be frugal and save it so they can buy a ticket for a boat. That does not make them rich, that makes them responsible.
And yes, my fathers side was so rich that two of the four children died on the long trip to the United States from what is now the Czech Republic.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Dave]

LOL!!!!

You are helpless.

I was pointing out the those blacks you're complaining about were brought over as slaves where their determination and hard-work got them whipped a little less than the lazy slave. Where their fiscal responsibility involved saving enough corn-meal to be able to eat all week.

And whether or not your grandparents knew they were coming to a land of opportunity for white males or not -- they still did it. They still got ahead BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE AND FUCKING MALE.

Now shut the fuck up you stupid fucking leper.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
That reminds me of something I've been wondering...

I agree with you to an extent. I use the terms white and black or hispanic when describing race and the only time I'm forced to use African American, European American, Asian American, Mexican American, and so on is when writing papers for school. I usually just call people by their names. It's much easier despite its lack of political correctness.

Heh, this goes even further now you've got me awake ;)

Stuff like women campaigning for names like fireman, postman etc to be changed to fireperson, postperson...Now that is a waste of energy. And people listen, they've been assumed as politicaly correct titles, which I guess is fair enough, but where can the white guy complain and who will listen?

[CrystalTears]

Oh please don't get started on political correctness. Fireperson, postperson... http://forum.bend.me.uk/pic/smilies/sick.gif

[Keller]

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by StrayRogue
The introduction of the term "office black guy" came from the "need" to hire racial minorities for the company to more racially diverse. Now alot of these people may be the best people for the job, but you're ignorant if you think some minorities haven't gotten jobs because of their race or background and not just because of their qualifications.

I could say the same thing about a lot of white or asian men/women as well. If may not come from the same venue (Affirmative Action or whatever the british equiv may be) but it would be just as ignorant to say some white men don't gain status and position when they aren't the best qualified candidate either.

Right. I was offered an IT position with a liberal arts BA because I knew the right people. It happens all the time and most often for white people.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Keller

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by StrayRogue
The introduction of the term "office black guy" came from the "need" to hire racial minorities for the company to more racially diverse. Now alot of these people may be the best people for the job, but you're ignorant if you think some minorities haven't gotten jobs because of their race or background and not just because of their qualifications.

I could say the same thing about a lot of white or asian men/women as well. If may not come from the same venue (Affirmative Action or whatever the british equiv may be) but it would be just as ignorant to say some white men don't gain status and position when they aren't the best qualified candidate either.

Right. I was offered an IT position with a liberal arts BA because I knew the right people. It happens all the time and most often for white people.

Hurrah for generalizations.

[Keller]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
That reminds me of something I've been wondering...

I agree with you to an extent. I use the terms white and black or hispanic when describing race and the only time I'm forced to use African American, European American, Asian American, Mexican American, and so on is when writing papers for school. I usually just call people by their names. It's much easier despite its lack of political correctness.

Unless they are african imigrants -- you can call them blacks. Or just American.

Same goes for hispanics.

[Keller]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by Keller

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by StrayRogue
The introduction of the term "office black guy" came from the "need" to hire racial minorities for the company to more racially diverse. Now alot of these people may be the best people for the job, but you're ignorant if you think some minorities haven't gotten jobs because of their race or background and not just because of their qualifications.

I could say the same thing about a lot of white or asian men/women as well. If may not come from the same venue (Affirmative Action or whatever the british equiv may be) but it would be just as ignorant to say some white men don't gain status and position when they aren't the best qualified candidate either.

Right. I was offered an IT position with a liberal arts BA because I knew the right people. It happens all the time and most often for white people.

Hurrah for generalizations.

Right. It was actually Technical Support, not just IT.

I will clarify in the future.

[Satira]

Uh, if you're going to talk about women, then please spell it womyn. I find the other way offensive because it implies we're just wombs.

Originally posted by Keller


LOL!!!!

You are helpless.

I was pointing out the those blacks you're complaining about were brought over as slaves where their determination and hard-work got them whipped a little less than the lazy slave. Where their fiscal responsibility involved saving enough corn-meal to be able to eat all week.

And whether or not your grandparents knew they were coming to a land of opportunity for white males or not -- they still did it. They still got ahead BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE AND FUCKING MALE.

Now shut the fuck up you stupid fucking leper.
I didn't complain about "blacks" once.
I don't know any former slaves, or anyone who knew any former slaves. I bet I can say the same for you. In TODAY'S America people mostly make themselves what they are, though hard work and a bit of luck. I wish people would not be so hung up on the past (things that happened 150 years ago) and focus on what they can do to better themselves in the future.

I personally would give everyone that I may hire a viable chance and opportunity for the job if I see that they are qualified for it. That might be because, I, as a greedy capitalist, want the best man for the job so I can be successful. ;)

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Dave]

[StrayRogue]

No saying most career and educational based oppurtunities go to white people by default is more of a generalization than me posting this:

[DeV]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
How about EBONY magazine? Where's WHITE magazine?

How about Black Entertainment Television? Can you imagine the uproar if they came out with White Entertainment Television?

And saying something like "It's already out there. It's called every other <magazine, TV channel, etc.> is a copout.

I even hear about black college football and other shit like that.

I just don't understand how blacks can have all these "black" things like that and then call whites racist in the same breath.
Blacks don't have all of these black things, unfortunately. BET is 48% white owned. Blackplanet.com is white-owned. White students regularly attend historical black Colleges and Universities and can even apply for scholarships which they do receive.

I agree that things need to change and it needs to start with all races working together to remove racial stereotype, stigma, and generalizations from all things so that some type of unity can be achieved. Like Arkans said, it will take a long time for that to happen, but it starts with the children, always.

Blacks that cry racism against whites for no reason other than to do so are ignorant. Racism still exists though, despite all that black people have worked to achieve in this century, but it is definitely not felt as strongly as 40 years ago. Though, there are black racists who are just as vocal and passionate about their racism as their white counterparts. We have to weed them out also.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Dave
I didn't complain about "blacks" once.
I don't know any former slaves, or anyone who knew any former slaves. I bet I can say the same for you. In TODAY'S America people mostly make themselves what they are, though hard work and a bit of luck. I wish people would not be so hung up on the past (things that happened 150 years ago) and focus on what they can do to better themselves in the future.

I personally would give everyone that I may hire a viable chance and opportunity for the job if I see that they are qualified for it. That might be because, I, as a greedy capitalist, want the best man for the job so I can be successful. ;)

For once Dave I agree totally with you.

[Keller]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
No saying most career and educational based oppurtunities go to white people by default is more of a generalization than me posting this:

Not by default. Because they know the right people.

Most people with the hiring power like that are going to be white and the social circles they run in are going to be white.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Keller

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
That reminds me of something I've been wondering...

I agree with you to an extent. I use the terms white and black or hispanic when describing race and the only time I'm forced to use African American, European American, Asian American, Mexican American, and so on is when writing papers for school. I usually just call people by their names. It's much easier despite its lack of political correctness.

Unless they are african imigrants -- you can call them blacks. Or just American.

Same goes for hispanics. True. I actually had a reply typed out to explain the difference and the split that exists between Africans from Africa and blacks from America, but opted not to post that portion. This is another reason that this term is used especially in print and televison. Africans would prefer to be called black, as being called an African American would be offensive and maybe vice versa for some blacks who'd prefer to be called AA, but I could care less. I use the term black primarily and you shouldn't have any qualms about using it either.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Keller

Originally posted by StrayRogue
No saying most career and educational based oppurtunities go to white people by default is more of a generalization than me posting this:

Not by default. Because they know the right people.

Most people with the hiring power like that are going to be white and the social circles they run in are going to be white.

As I said hurrah for generalizations.

[Sean]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Totally Tijay. However racial minorities have a platform. If you see something that has happened that is due to an issue of racism, say a white guy getting a job over a black guy because he was black, you can speak out against that and people WILL listen. The same goes for women. In my own experiences the same cannot be said for white men, however. In fact I'd go as far as to say if the above scenario was raised the white complainer would be accused of racism for saying he should have gotten the job over a black man.

The black person in your example and the white person have the exact same recourse. It begins with them assuming why they weren't hired and then complaining about it until they convince someone to believe them and possibly investigate into the situation.

We can agree to disagree on this point but I'd say the number of cases of racial discrimination in work place hiring practices against black men and women versus those investigated or resolved is much higher on the occurances side of things.

But on the original point in this thread. I'm curious.. how do you define black culture or white culture or gay culture or female culture etc.

[StrayRogue]

How do you mean define? Obviously we're all different with varied beliefs and views on the world, however most of us do operate under a structure of government and law that should disregard those differences.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Heres another example of this problem - at the BBC talent website there is a competition asking for ASIAN people to write a screenplay for something. Wheres the "WHITE MAN ONLY" contests?

They dont need a contest.
When was the last time a play written by an Asian person was played on the BBC?

[StrayRogue]

There is an Asian soap on the radio every week. There was a large scale Asian TV drama on about two weeks ago. Anyone can write normally for the BBC. One of my interviewers/to be co-workers is Asian and works on "normal" stuff. However when they say "Asian only" for certain things is when I get annoyed. Now I don't want the other stuff to be "white only", but rather be available to everyone.

Originally posted by Nieninque


They dont need a contest.
When was the last time a play written by an Asian person was played on the BBC?

Why does it matter if it was written by an Asian person or not. If the play is good it will be shown, if it sucks, better luck next time. That should be the determining factor, not that it was the best play written by a Asian person.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Dave]

[StrayRogue]

Yep. The point was that it was for Asian's only. Theres no White guy only contests. There'd be a riot. And you know it. But then there shouldn't be either.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
LOL, yes we do have quota's Nien. I've experienced it personally. I live amongst one of the biggest Asian populations in the country.

Shame that you sound as though you are reading from the BNP handbook then.
Affirmative action as they have in teh US, and quotas are unlawful in the UK. Against the law. US employment law demands quotas. Spot the difference.


Arkans:

1: There is still the odd news story of black people being stopped all the time by police, but beyond that I'd say they're treated pretty equally (except by a few minorities like the BNP).

It may well be an odd news story for a white british middle class man, but for Black people, young men particularly, its old news and part of day-to-day life.


2: Some area's have deteriorated, but I don't think thats to do with the fact of colour, more its a problem of immigrants coming over with little to no money to support themselves and relying on the government to do so. White people live in similar squallor too. They have formed communities that can be very anti-white/english and many folk complain of assimilation by these immigrants who bring their familes over and begin to take over the towns/areas etc. I personally believe this is a cultural refusal to mix.

On the part of the white people?
Fucking hell Stay...read the Daily Mail much?


3: No idea.

Immigration is a problem here now. Its grown massively since Labour came in.

No it isnt. Immigration has become a problem since the Tories started stirring it up.
FYI...the most racist immigration has been implemented by Labour Governments. The Tories whipped it up during the election because they capitalised on a few hyped media problems. I didnt figure you for the kind of person that was sucking up the Tory BS. :no:

The main problem with immigration is that we treat asylum seekers as criminals, we put them in places you wouldnt keep your dog while their applications are being processed, we give them about £19 a week to live on and then get the hump when they try and do something to give them the resources to exist. They then end up getting jobs on the black market and putting their lives at risk (ala the cockle farmers in the northeast of England) and the indiginous residents marginalise them and vilify all of them when any one of them does something they dont like.

If you really believe that white heterosexual men have anything that comes anywhere close, then I got you all wrong.

[Sean]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
How do you mean define? Obviously we're all different with varied beliefs and views on the world, however most of us do operate under a structure of government and law that should disregard those differences.

Well when you talk about black pride or white pride or any sort of pride .. what do you have pride in? the amount of melanin contained in your skin? some generalization of your culture? what? What do you have pride in in relation to the color of your skin?

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Nieninque


They dont need a contest.
When was the last time a play written by an Asian person was played on the BBC?

Why does it matter if it was written by an Asian person or not. If the play is good it will be shown, if it sucks, better luck next time. That should be the determining factor, not that it was the best play written by a Asian person.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Dave]

Absolutely...right enough. The problem is, that even if it was the best think since sliced bread, if it is written by an Asian the chances of it going anywhere are much much much lower.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
There is an Asian soap on the radio every week. There was a large scale Asian TV drama on about two weeks ago. Anyone can write normally for the BBC. One of my interviewers/to be co-workers is Asian and works on "normal" stuff. However when they say "Asian only" for certain things is when I get annoyed. Now I don't want the other stuff to be "white only", but rather be available to everyone.

If the same opportunities were available, people wouldnt want to seek greater representation from minorities

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Nieninque


They dont need a contest.
When was the last time a play written by an Asian person was played on the BBC?

Why does it matter if it was written by an Asian person or not. If the play is good it will be shown, if it sucks, better luck next time. That should be the determining factor, not that it was the best play written by a Asian person.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Dave]

Absolutely...right enough. The problem is, that even if it was the best think since sliced bread, if it is written by an Asian the chances of it going anywhere are much much much lower.

So, like, when people read a script in England the writer is always sitting there in front of them?

I always pictured it as a guy in a office reading it and saying, my god this is good, we need to put this on stage! and then calling the writer and putting things in motion.
On top of it apparently the BBC is looking for just that type of person an Asian to write a play, so the guy sees the writer for lunch to talk business and notices he is Asian, so not only does he have a great play to preform, he can make the station look better by saying that they are producing a New Young Asian Playwright.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Dave]

[StrayRogue]

Come live in an Immigration frenzy area and come preach your BS Nien. Try going to university with some of the few who want to better themselves. It isn't a rule, in regards to quotas, but it happens none the less. Both ways in regards to descriminating for and against both black/asian/whatever and white people.

We treat immigrants like criminals? Some yes. Not all. Most get lumped in a council flat in specified areas. Most don't get illegal jobs. They get normal jobs.

We've had 130,000 (123,000 gained valid work permits) immigrants come into our country in the last 12 months. The UK takes more immigrants than any other country in the EU.

Tijay: The cultures of people who wish to take pride in anything are free to do so in my eyes. I'm glad the world is such an enlightened place where gay/coloured/insert minority here people can express themselves and their culture. Thats cool with me. My contention is, that has been backed up by a few examples posted by others, is that there is little to no platform for the straight white man who may wish to do the same. Me and you both know that if I was to have a White Pride parade I'd be labelled a racist.

[Edited on 24-6-05 by StrayRogue]

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by StrayRogue
There is an Asian soap on the radio every week. There was a large scale Asian TV drama on about two weeks ago. Anyone can write normally for the BBC. One of my interviewers/to be co-workers is Asian and works on "normal" stuff. However when they say "Asian only" for certain things is when I get annoyed. Now I don't want the other stuff to be "white only", but rather be available to everyone.

If the same opportunities were available, people wouldnt want to seek greater representation from minorities

Believe me there are more than equal oppurtunities in the BBC. As the Asian only competition demonstrates. Or how they only wanted asian people to work on the Asian Interactive radio channel. Wheres my white interactive channel?

[theotherjohn]

I am against any special treatment because of gender or ethnic background

It is a thing of the past.

Being a white man and living in Houston, do you think I felt like a majority?

Being a white man and being in the Army, do you think I feel like a majority?

Is this day and time, so called miniority groups use it to their advantage

[StrayRogue]

Strange I agree with Dave and TOJ. Maybe the army is for me...

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by Dave
I didn't complain about "blacks" once.
I don't know any former slaves, or anyone who knew any former slaves. I bet I can say the same for you. In TODAY'S America people mostly make themselves what they are, though hard work and a bit of luck.


I agree.

[DeV]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
there is little to no platform for the straight white man who may wish to do the same. Me and you both know that if I was to have a White Pride parade I'd be labelled a racist.

[Edited on 24-6-05 by StrayRogue] There is such a platform. You've already mentioned it in this thread and the American version of it would be the KKK, New age Nazi's, White Power Organizations and so on.

That platform has been tarnished from within the confines of their personal hatred and disdain for anyone not like them. That's who you should be taking issue with.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by StrayRogue
there is little to no platform for the straight white man who may wish to do the same. Me and you both know that if I was to have a White Pride parade I'd be labelled a racist.

[Edited on 24-6-05 by StrayRogue] There is such a platform. You've already mentioned it in this thread and the American version of it would be the KKK, New age Nazi's, White Power Organizations and so on.

That platform has been tarnished from within the confines of their personal hatred and disdain for anyone not like them. That's who you should be taking issue with.

Well there is that. I don't think its right that you should be labelled one of those things if you do take pride in being white. Its kind of one of those instant judgments that I wish people didnt make, such as Nien for saying i'm some Tory BNP supporter because I think Immigrants get quite an easy ride in the UK and think its a problem. OMG I'M A NAZI.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by OreoElf
But seriously on the topic, I think everyone should be proud to be who and what they are... as long as it isn't harmful to others.

Personally, I think people should be proud of what they choose to do and become instead of what they're accidentally born as. Pride is for accomplishments in my book. This is not to say that you shouldn't stand up against others trying to put you down or telling you to be ashamed.

Raven

[Sean]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Well there is that. I don't think its right that you should be labelled one of those things if you do take pride in being white. Its kind of one of those instant judgments that I wish people didnt make, such as Nien for saying i'm some Tory BNP supporter because I think Immigrants get quite an easy ride in the UK and think its a problem. OMG I'M A NAZI.

I'm not really sure the NAACP has a better social stigma with white men and women than any of the groups previously mentioned.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Tijay

Well when you talk about black pride or white pride or any sort of pride .. what do you have pride in? the amount of melanin contained in your skin? some generalization of your culture? what? What do you have pride in in relation to the color of your skin?

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner.

I would be facinated by anyone who can give a definition and reason for the term "white pride".

I can understand Mexican or Russian or Japanese culture and why one might take pride in their backround.

What the heck is white though?

[OreoElf]

Originally posted by Arkans
Feh, us Grand Wizards don't wear white!

- Arkans

I'm scared that this is the part where Arkans puts on his wizard hat and robes... He's also told me he's my drunk uncle on ooc... *runs in terror*

But seriously on the topic, I think everyone should be proud to be who and what they are... as long as it isn't harmful to others.


Growing in a b-cultural community I never really though of people as different races growing up. I never though of people that way... In fact until I left So. Cali, the only prejudice I'd experienced had been towards me in High School... I am a white female. A group of students actually compared me to paper for the remdial class I was TA for. (I took honors classes).

I spent some time in TN with my grandparents and experienced, somewhat, the opposite end of the spectrum... My grandmother actually used the N word... Which I was somewhat aghast by.... she still says colored people. She is in her late eightys though and grew up picking cotton on a farm... I am not saying this makes it acceptable, but she is unwilling if not unable to change.

All in all I try to think hat we are one race. The human race with varied cultures... A favorite line from a movie is, when asked did God paint you? the peron answers that God likes wonderous variety.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by OreoElf]

[DeV]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Well there is that. I don't think its right that you should be labelled one of those things if you do take pride in being white. Its kind of one of those instant judgments that I wish people didnt make, such as Nien for saying i'm some Tory BNP supporter because I think Immigrants get quite an easy ride in the UK and think its a problem. OMG I'M A NAZI. I think immigrants get an easy ride in the US also. Just because I don't support gay pride parades period, I'm labeled as a hater. I come down hard on the black males in the community because I see the negative degression of those who refuse to educate themselves so as to help enable their family and community to achieve better, and I'm labeled as a hater, and told I'm prejudiced against my own people.

I can relate to alot of what you're saying, Stray.

It just came a point in time where I had to understand that there are white and hispanic people out there who have it just as bad if not somtimes worse than blacks. There are Asians who can't get promoted in the workforce because of institutionalized racism that happens in many corporations here in the states. Despite them sometimes being overqualifed for an executive position, they're considered docile and submissive which is a generalization that impedes progress. Women still earning 73 cents for every dollar a man takes home is still a problem. Even though I'm on the other side of the fence, I think we can all relate to each other in many ways when it comes to racism.

[StrayRogue]

Possibly Tijay. I wouldn't really know to be honest. I guess its one of those perception things: I'm not black, I have no idea of whether or not you undergo a constant struggle or whatever. But then the same can be said of anyone arguing against me who isn't the straight white man. Heh, I hope that didn't come off as racist or what have you, as I didn't mean it to be.

But to recap my point, because I want to close this window and go play WoW, is that I think the straight white man, who is percieved to be the...I don't know king of the world or former king or whatever, is treated with racial prejudice because he isn't a minority. In todays Politically Correct world its poor form to hound or hassle a minority. You're either a racist, a homophobe (or sexist, despite them not being a minority per say) or whatever. Each has their own soap box and they all have the ear of the world.

I'm not saying they have it easier or its better or anything. I am saying that I, ME, has experienced prejudice against me because of my ethnicity and have had little to no recourse or medium or forum to express my frustration with such things. And even if there were the unfortunate nature of the world would most likely paint them as anti-minority or as Nazi's.

Yeah I come from a background that isn't routed in slavery. Nor do I come from a country that was destroyed by a tyrant (well not in the last 300 years or so). In that respect my heritage IS priviledged. It doesn't mean I have an easy time, an easy road and an easy future.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by DeV
I think immigrants get an easy ride in the US also. Just because I don't support gay pride parades period, I'm labeled as a hater. I come down hard on the black males in the community because I see the negative degression of those who refuse to educate themselves so as to help enable their family and community to achieve better, and I'm labeled as a hater, and told I'm prejudiced against my own people.



Thats my point completely. I'm glad you can understand it without saying OMG you Nazi.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Unless they are african imigrants -- you can call them blacks. Or just American.

Exactly. If someone is actually from Africa (as in them, not their great great great grandfather, not their father, not their brother, but THEM), then I'll be happy to call them African American if that's their preference.

If they're not from Africa, they're not African American. They're American.

If they have a problem with that, then they can be referred to as African-Heritage American and they'll like it :lol:

Same goes for other races, I'm just using blacks as an example since the term "African American" seems to be the catchphrase of the decade.

If I were black and someone called me African American, I'd punch them and tell them I'm not African. Then I'd call them racist for assuming I'm from Africa because I'm black, just for good measure.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[Kyra]

I come down hard on the black males in the community because I see the negative degression of those who refuse to educate themselves so as to help enable their family and community to achieve better, and I'm labeled as a hater


I work with an RN(male) who is black. He has himself told in many classes how he is ostrascized(sp?) by people of his own race because he doesn't "talk" right or whatever, they call him "Uncle Tom" & other names for being educated.

Let me repeat that, this is an "oppresed" race demeaning one of their own for being educated...how can I feel any empathy or want to help their causes when there are attitudes like that out there?? Work on helping themselves for gods sake, not drag others back down to the pit of despair would go a long way toward helping with alot of the problems.

I've managed to raise 2 children as a single mother, go to college, hold a job & own a house without any welfare. Granted I had to work my a$$ off at a few jobs at times. Also I'm not "white" so the whole "I'm poor because of slavery 150 years ago" spiel doesn't hold water to me...I suppose I could sit in a slum somewhere & blame the whites for taking my country from my people & making me poor & lazy all this time later?

My daughter who looks as white, dutch christian reform as can be has asked how come there are no "white" days & why do we have to learn about and celebrate Kwanza(sp?) but we can't talk about Christmas in school Mom? Oh...because only minorities get to have special "days" kids. Not the answer I've given her but it sure does run thru my head.

I say get rid of all the racial "days" & just have holidays celebrating humanity & the fact we haven't managed to totally kill each other off yet.

K.

[Doyle Hargraves]

At the rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if in 100 years September 11 will be celebrated as "National Arab Day" because a picture is going to be painted that we owe arab immigrants something for blowing up the Middle East.

I give Japan props for not doing the same over Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
If I were black and someone called me African American, I'd punch them and tell them I'm not African. :lol: It's better than being called colored, negro, or blacky for sure.

My girlfriend's grandparents still say colored...

Then I'd call them racist for assuming I'm from Africa because I'm black, just for good measure. Some blacks are unable to trace their roots period, let alone knowing if their ancestry extends all the way to Africa or not. But, the term is out of date in my opinion as well.

It's a base assumption that doesn't recognize the diversity as far as all blacks in this country are concerned.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Kyra

My daughter who looks as white, dutch christian reform as can be has asked how come there are no "white" days & why do we have to learn about and celebrate Kwanza(sp?) but we can't talk about Christmas in school Mom? Oh...because only minorities get to have special "days" kids. Not the answer I've given her but it sure does run thru my head.

K.

This is somewhat of an exaggeration isn't it? I've never heard of anyone not beingable to discuss/talk about christmas and only talk about more 'ethnic' holidays in school. I have heard that you can't celebrate any holidays (kwanza, christmas, channukah(sp?), etc.) in school, hence christmas break being renamed winter break.

It would also be difficult to remove some ethnic holiday's as days off because people are going to miss those days based on their faith and as odd as it sounds missing out on education and days that others got based on your faith is a bit out screwy.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Tijay]

[CrystalTears]

There have been schools where children aren't allowed to discuss Christmas because of its origin, as it's religious, and can't be sharing that type of faith with others. Yet schools allow black males to have cornrows because of their "culture" and kick out white kids from school for having them as well.

There's a lot of segregation in this world, for such a time when people are expected to be more tolerant and understanding.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Sean]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
There have been schools where children aren't allowed to discuss Christmas because of its origin, as it's religious, and can't be sharing that type of faith with others. Yet schools allow black males to have cornrows because of their "culture" and kick out white kids from school for having them as well.

There's a lot of segregation in this world, for such a time when people are expected to be more tolerant and understanding.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears]

I can only speak on things I've experienced and heard but I've never heard of that happening in public schools. Maybe it happens maybe it doesn't but it's not something I've ever heard of or experienced. If your talking about private schools then I just don't care.

[CrystalTears]

It's been in the news. (http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/education/s/151/151512_school_bans_wrong_race_hairstyle.html)

Edited to put in a better link.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears]

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
It's been in the news. (http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/education/s/151/151512_school_bans_wrong_race_hairstyle.html)

Edited to put in a better link.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears] In the UK...

It's still utter bullshit though. I hope it doesn't happen here.

[Sean]

Like I said I can only talk about things I've experienced or know about .. schooling in the UK and the rules over there are not among things I've experienced.

[Skirmisher]

Yep, a foolish decision and one i hope is reversed soon.

Originally posted by Kyra


I come down hard on the black males in the community because I see the negative degression of those who refuse to educate themselves so as to help enable their family and community to achieve better, and I'm labeled as a hater


I work with an RN(male) who is black. He has himself told in many classes how he is ostrascized(sp?) by people of his own race because he doesn't "talk" right or whatever, they call him "Uncle Tom" & other names for being educated.

Let me repeat that, this is an "oppresed" race demeaning one of their own for being educated...how can I feel any empathy or want to help their causes when there are attitudes like that out there?? Work on helping themselves for gods sake, not drag others back down to the pit of despair would go a long way toward helping with alot of the problems.

I've managed to raise 2 children as a single mother, go to college, hold a job & own a house without any welfare. Granted I had to work my a$$ off at a few jobs at times. Also I'm not "white" so the whole "I'm poor because of slavery 150 years ago" spiel doesn't hold water to me...I suppose I could sit in a slum somewhere & blame the whites for taking my country from my people & making me poor & lazy all this time later?

My daughter who looks as white, dutch christian reform as can be has asked how come there are no "white" days & why do we have to learn about and celebrate Kwanza(sp?) but we can't talk about Christmas in school Mom? Oh...because only minorities get to have special "days" kids. Not the answer I've given her but it sure does run thru my head.

I say get rid of all the racial "days" & just have holidays celebrating humanity & the fact we haven't managed to totally kill each other off yet.

K.
:) I like you.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
There have been schools where children aren't allowed to discuss Christmas because of its origin, as it's religious, and can't be sharing that type of faith with others. Yet schools allow black males to have cornrows because of their "culture" and kick out white kids from school for having them as well.

There's a lot of segregation in this world, for such a time when people are expected to be more tolerant and understanding.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears]

There have also been schools where children have been prevented from wearing clothing that is essential to their religion..

The fact that you have found one stupid school that has taking on something stupid, doesnt mean it's widespread. Unfortunatly, the lack of opportunities for people who arent white british in this country are far more widespread.

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by CrystalTears
It's been in the news. (http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/education/s/151/151512_school_bans_wrong_race_hairstyle.html)

Edited to put in a better link.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears] In the UK...

It's still utter bullshit though. I hope it doesn't happen here.

Downers Grove South & north High schools DEV. They attempted to make it so that the school would not have any Christmas related items, decorations etc. No Christmas tree, no Santa and the like. There was a walkout by students in both schools against it, and shortly thereafter it we were allowed to have a "holiday tree" again.

[CrystalTears]

It's not just one school, it's just one link that I threw in from many that I found. The fact that it even happened is the problem I was trying to point out.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Dave
Downers Grove South & north High schools DEV. They attempted to make it so that the school would not have any Christmas related items, decorations etc. No Christmas tree, no Santa and the like. There was a walkout by students in both schools against it, and shortly thereafter it we were allowed to have a "holiday tree" again.

I would have no problem with that. Learning about religions and religious world history is one thing, but promoting one religion over another isn't something I think should be done in school.

[Doyle Hargraves]

It's better than being called colored, negro, or blacky for sure.

Negro is the Spanish word for black. Though whether or not they're associated with each other I don't know, but it would make sense.


Some blacks are unable to trace their roots period,

Definitely. Hell half of them can't even trace who their father is.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Doyle Hargraves]

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Tijay

Well when you talk about black pride or white pride or any sort of pride .. what do you have pride in? the amount of melanin contained in your skin? some generalization of your culture? what? What do you have pride in in relation to the color of your skin?

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner.

I would be facinated by anyone who can give a definition and reason for the term "white pride".

I can understand Mexican or Russian or Japanese culture and why one might take pride in their backround.

What the heck is white though?


I would be facinated by anyone who can give a definition and reason for the term "any type of pride".


I am sure you are aware that there are many ethic groups of each of the following:

african, mexican, russian and japanese

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by CrystalTears
It's been in the news. (http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/education/s/151/151512_school_bans_wrong_race_hairstyle.html)

Edited to put in a better link.

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by CrystalTears] In the UK...

It's still utter bullshit though. I hope it doesn't happen here.

Downers Grove South & north High schools DEV. They attempted to make it so that the school would not have any Christmas related items, decorations etc. No Christmas tree, no Santa and the like. There was a walkout by students in both schools against it, and shortly thereafter it we were allowed to have a "holiday tree" again. I'm sorry but I could care less about students being up in arms about not being able to celebrate Christmas in school. They are there to get an education. Glad they made their case through protest, though. Teaches them early on.

I'm also against Black history month and any other race or culture specific celebrations in public schools.

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by Dave
Downers Grove South & north High schools DEV. They attempted to make it so that the school would not have any Christmas related items, decorations etc. No Christmas tree, no Santa and the like. There was a walkout by students in both schools against it, and shortly thereafter it we were allowed to have a "holiday tree" again.

I would have no problem with that. Learning about religions and religious world history is one thing, but promoting one religion over another isn't something I think should be done in school.
let me clarify, none were allowed including Jewish etc.

[peam]

Appalachian pride in the house.

Yeehaw.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves

It's better than being called colored, negro, or blacky for sure.

Negro is the Spanish word for black. Though whether or not they're associated with each other I don't know, but it would make sense.
Blanco is spanish for white but I would not be able to contain a straight face in refering to white people as Blanco's. Seriously, the word does not properly represent black peoples in America, in my opinion.

I've always felt that the name that you respond to determines the amount of your self worth. Also, the way groups of people collectively respond to a name can have devastating effects, particularly if they did not choose the name to begin with.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by theotherjohn

I would be facinated by anyone who can give a definition and reason for the term "any type of pride".


I am sure you are aware that there are many ethic groups of each of the following:

african, mexican, russian and japanese

The US is a baby compared to those other countries and nowhere nearly as homogonized as a people.

If you ask me about the history of the indians in Peru I can talk about that and discuss it.

Can you do the same for "whites" here? I don't think so. I would really find it interesting to read what it is exaxctly that "white" people here in the US have to be proud of as opposed to those of other races.

I don't think there is one single white culture and I think that those that try to say there is do so out of either ignorance, or perhaps a feeling of anger or frustration at what they see as a leaning too far in an attempt to balance the scales.


I am reminded of something i've read in a number of places how so often those people talking about white pride and then trying to ride the coattails of others, though their only tenuous connection to them is that they shared a pigmentation, have to do so as they have done so little to be proud of on their own

[Edaarin]

Immigrants get it easy...?

In 1987, it cost my parents several thousand dollars per person to the States. It was the second time they attempted it. That wiped out almost everything they had saved up, as well as the better part of 3 years of wages my dad made while in America (having come first). So, new country, my mom with no college education, no country, and my dad was the only one who spoke English.

6 people living in a 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment for a little less than 3 years before my parents saved enough to put a down payment on a house. I went to school not knowing any English, and both my parents worked two jobs because there were bills to pay and never enough money, but they sent money to Vietnam to support family there anyway.

So, language barrier, poverty, basically being treated as though everyone expected more out of me just because of the color of my skin, and parents weren't around a whole lot.

Not exactly as easy as it sounds.

EDIT: I don't begrudge anyone things that I'm unable to take part in. Winter break happens to coincide with Christmas? Fine. I have to take a personal day to celebrate Tet? No problem.

In the end, for the most part we get what we deserve. I'm going to be graduating with two degrees next spring and starting work with a Big 4 company before going to law school. I didn't get where I am because of special treatment. I got where I am because my parents instilled a desire to do whatever it is I'm doing well, regardless of how much I like it.

Are there people out there that are naturally smarter than me? Of course, hell tons of my high school classmates make me look like Warclaidhm. Are there people that catch lucky breaks in life? Sure, like it or not, luck is a huge part of life, as much as talent and who you know are.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Edaarin]

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Skirmisher


I am reminded of something i've read in a number of places how so often those people talking about white pride and then trying to ride the coattails of others, though their only tenuous connection to them is that they shared a pigmentation, have to do so as they have done so little to be proud of on their own

that is exactly my and others point.

all these people born in the united states of america say african american, native indian, eskimo, whatever are


trying to ride the coattails of others, though their only tenuous connection to them that they shared a pigmentation, have to do so as they have done so little to be proud of on their own

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

I don't think there is one single white culture and I think that those that try to say there is do so out of either ignorance,

like there is a single african culture :rolleyes:

or any culture

[Skirmisher]

It is FAR different to speak of the American culture, as young as it is, and to speak of the "white" culture.


Please try to define white culture or get off it.

Originally posted by Edaarin
Immigrants get it easy...?

In 1987, it cost my parents several thousand dollars per person to the States. It was the second time they attempted it. That wiped out almost everything they had saved up, as well as the better part of 3 years of wages my dad made while in America (having come first). So, new country, my mom with no college education, no country, and my dad was the only one who spoke English.

6 people living in a 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment for a little less than 3 years before my parents saved enough to put a down payment on a house. I went to school not knowing any English, and both my parents worked two jobs because there were bills to pay and never enough money, but they sent money to Vietnam to support family there anyway.

So, language barrier, poverty, basically being treated as though everyone expected more out of me just because of the color of my skin, and parents weren't around a whole lot.

Not exactly as easy as it sounds.

EDIT: I don't begrudge anyone things that I'm unable to take part in. Winter break happens to coincide with Christmas? Fine. I have to take a personal day to celebrate Tet? No problem.

In the end, for the most part we get what we deserve. I'm going to be graduating with two degrees next spring and starting work with a Big 4 company before going to law school. I didn't get where I am because of special treatment. I got where I am because my parents instilled a desire to do whatever it is I'm doing well, regardless of how much I like it.

Are there people out there that are naturally smarter than me? Of course, hell tons of my high school classmates make me look like Warclaidhm. Are there people that catch lucky breaks in life? Sure, like it or not, luck is a huge part of life, as much as talent and who you know are.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Edaarin]


You put in a lot of hard work and you and your family made it. Good job, I personally am proud to share the title of American with you.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Please try to define white culture or get off it.

Please try to define african american culture?

or any other culture.

yeah that is right you can not.

and while you are trying to define it ask what country in africa they are from?

[Kyra]

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by Kyra

My daughter who looks as white, dutch christian reform as can be has asked how come there are no "white" days & why do we have to learn about and celebrate Kwanza(sp?) but we can't talk about Christmas in school Mom? Oh...because only minorities get to have special "days" kids. Not the answer I've given her but it sure does run thru my head.

K.

This is somewhat of an exaggeration isn't it? I've never heard of anyone not beingable to discuss/talk about christmas and only talk about more 'ethnic' holidays in school. I have heard that you can't celebrate any holidays (kwanza, christmas, channukah(sp?), etc.) in school, hence christmas break being renamed winter break.

It would also be difficult to remove some ethnic holiday's as days off because people are going to miss those days based on their faith and as odd as it sounds missing out on education and days that others got based on your faith is a bit out screwy.

[Edited on 6-24-2005 by Tijay]

No it's not an exaggeration. Kwanza is openly celebrated in their school. The teachers brought in a variety of Kwanza foods(no idea what they are anymore) & the kids got to have a buffet while enjoying Kwanza decorations, music, etc...the kids brought home pictures. :rolleyes:

Christmas, nope they couldn't have a gift exchange(might offend someone), couldn't discuss the origins of Christmas & please don't send kids to school with anything bearing a santa claus on it.

This is a public school btw. My children no longer attend it however it appears to be a district wide thing as I've heard the same from other parents.

Personally I wouldn't care if they want to celebrate mardi gras, Kwanza & the great pumpkin all at once...as long as they allow ALL of the holidays to be celebrated. If they aren't, then they should allow none.

K.

[Skirmisher]

I cannot define each countries culture, but do know about the Peruvian ,and have gone to the Peruvian Independence day Parade here in Jersey more than once.

Put up something similar for "white" culture that isn't simply part of American culture or please shut it already.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I cannot define each countries culture, but do know about the Peruvian ,and have gone to the Peruvian Independence day Parade here in Jersey more than once.

Put up something similar for "white" culture that isn't simply part of American culture or please shut it already.

shut up

what I would like to say you so fucking proud of your culture and think it is better than pure white American go back to Peru.

One less so fucking called minority to take a low paying job here

[Skirmisher]

thanks for proving my point .

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
thanks for proving my point .

it is so easy to refute your point

German festivals in Wheaton, Chicago

want me to continue?

[Skirmisher]

I already said countries have cultures kind sir.

Perhaps in your zeal you missed that that was my point all along, countries...not a "white" race.

Take a second swing.

I kinda think his point is white culture = european culture, as "Sundanese" culture would = African culture, as would Brazilian culture = South Americana culture etc.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I cannot define each countries culture, but do know about the Peruvian ,and have gone to the Peruvian Independence day Parade here in Jersey more than once.

Put up something similar for "white" culture that isn't simply part of American culture or please shut it already.

No offense, but what the hell is the point of having a Peruvian Independence Day parade in America? Other than Peruvians, who cares? And if the Peruvians care that much, why did they move to America?

That's kinda like us having a 4th of July parade in Ireland.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I cannot define each countries culture, but do know about the Peruvian ,and have gone to the Peruvian Independence day Parade here in Jersey more than once.

Put up something similar for "white" culture that isn't simply part of American culture or please shut it already.

No offense, but what the hell is the point of having a Peruvian Independence Day parade in America? Other than Peruvians, who cares? And if the Peruvians care that much, why did they move to America?

That's kinda like us having a 4th of July parade in Ireland.

Yeah and Americans in other Countries never celebrate american Holidays... :rolleyes:

[Back]

Last I heard, there was no such thing as a Peruvian Independence day celebrated anywhere in America. So you are basically talking out of your ass.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I cannot define each countries culture, but do know about the Peruvian ,and have gone to the Peruvian Independence day Parade here in Jersey more than once.



So which of the following is your Peruivan culuture since you are so proud and celebrate it in New Jersey?

Chavín
Moche
Paracas
Huari (Wari)
Nazca
Chimu
Tiahuanaco
Incan
Spanish


as you can see Peruvian has way more flavors than "white" american

[Doyle Hargraves]

Yeah and Americans in other Countries never celebrate american Holidays...

They're equally stupid for doing so if they also make a public ordeal about it.

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I cannot define each countries culture, but do know about the Peruvian ,and have gone to the Peruvian Independence day Parade here in Jersey more than once.

Put up something similar for "white" culture that isn't simply part of American culture or please shut it already.

No offense, but what the hell is the point of having a Peruvian Independence Day parade in America? Other than Peruvians, who cares? And if the Peruvians care that much, why did they move to America?

That's kinda like us having a 4th of July parade in Ireland.

Yeah and Americans in other Countries never celebrate american Holidays... :rolleyes:

Are you trying to say that there is an Independence day parade in Great Britain?

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I cannot define each countries culture, but do know about the Peruvian ,and have gone to the Peruvian Independence day Parade here in Jersey more than once.

Put up something similar for "white" culture that isn't simply part of American culture or please shut it already.

No offense, but what the hell is the point of having a Peruvian Independence Day parade in America? Other than Peruvians, who cares? And if the Peruvians care that much, why did they move to America?

That's kinda like us having a 4th of July parade in Ireland.

Yeah and Americans in other Countries never celebrate american Holidays... :rolleyes:

Are you trying to say that there is an Independence day parade in Great Britain?

Americans in the UK celebrate independence day. To think otherwise, Dave, proves you are stupid.

[Back]

This thread is stupid. For so many reasons I can’t even count them all.

I have straight white man pride day everywhere every damn day.

I have not been to Wales or Germany to understand my origins better.

I celebrate every damn day no matter whose day it is. If its your day, I celebrate with you. Unless is something I am morally opposed to like celebrating 9/11.

Jeebus. Lighten up.

Originally posted by Nieninque

Americans in the UK celebrate independence day. To think otherwise, Dave, proves you are stupid.

There is a difference between celebrating and having a public spectacle about it. You have lots of fireworks going off during the 4th of July?

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Nieninque

Americans in the UK celebrate independence day. To think otherwise, Dave, proves you are stupid.

There is a difference between celebrating and having a public spectacle about it. You have lots of fireworks going off during the 4th of July?

Yes.

[Back]

I suspect Stay was just bored when he made this thread this morning.

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Nieninque

Americans in the UK celebrate independence day. To think otherwise, Dave, proves you are stupid.

There is a difference between celebrating and having a public spectacle about it. You have lots of fireworks going off during the 4th of July?

Yes.
I call bullshit on that one.

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by Backlash
Last I heard, there was no such thing as a Peruvian Independence day celebrated anywhere in America. So you are basically talking out of your ass.

Just an FYI I googled it.

Peruvian Festival in Flushing Meadows
On July 17 the Peruvian Festival in Flushing Meadows Park will mark the 184th anniversary of Peru's independence. Come for the food, dancing, and music.

[Hulkein]

There is a difference between having parades here and having parades in other countries, in my opinion.

America is historically a melting pot. It was formed on immigration.

Personally, I feel more pride in being of Irish/German descent than I do in being American. American just doesn't seem like a background to me, it's just a country where people from different areas inhabit.

That'll be different in a few hundred years I guess.

PS. The next parade I'll probably ever attend will be a parade after one of the local teams wins a championship.

Maybe when I have kids I'll take them to some 4th of July parades, this thread reminded me of riding my bike with my family in the 4th of July parade when I was like 8.

[Edited on 6-25-2005 by Hulkein]

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
I call bullshit on that one.

Then there is no point discussing this further with you.

I must have imagined it all :shrug:


wanker

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Personally, I feel more pride in being of Irish/German descent than I do in being American.

why do you live in America?

Go live in Ireland or Germany

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by theotherjohn

Originally posted by Hulkein

Personally, I feel more pride in being of Irish/German descent than I do in being American.

why do you live in America?

Go live in Ireland or Germany

If you are so proud, why don't you go live where Americans first came from.

Oh wait...

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Adredrin
[quote]



If you are so proud, why don't you go live where Americans first came from.

Oh wait...

Oh wait is right

I do live where Americans first came from.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Backlash
Last I heard, there was no such thing as a Peruvian Independence day celebrated anywhere in America. So you are basically talking out of your ass.

Backlash, I would have not been shocked byt this coming from some others here, but from you I have to say i'm dissapointed.

I surely hope tbat you are not saying that simply because you have not heard of something that it cannot exist?

Please do some research before tossing such an accusation at me.

I assure you it has and does exist.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Doyle Hargraves
No offense, but what the hell is the point of having a Peruvian Independence Day parade in America? Other than Peruvians, who cares? And if the Peruvians care that much, why did they move to America?

That's kinda like us having a 4th of July parade in Ireland.

I don't see it as any different from a St Patricks day Pareade, or one of the various fesivals they hold in Little Italy itself and in other locales in north Jersey as well.

It is a celebration of where you come from as well as where you are now.

Most people dont have a problem with those I mentioned in this post, so I am not sure I understand why there would be with my first example.

[Back]

Woah woah I was replying to Doyle “What you doing with that lawnmower blade” Hargraves.

My sentiment is this thread is stupid and every day anyone wants to celebrate I am right there with them no matter where they come from unless they want to celebrate something I disagree with.

And by disagree with I mean like celebrating jews getting burned or 9/11, or other catastrophic hate related anniversaries.

[Edited on 6-25-2005 by Backlash]

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Backlash
Last I heard, there was no such thing as a Peruvian Independence day celebrated anywhere in America. So you are basically talking out of your ass.

Backlash, I would have not been shocked byt this coming from some others here, but from you I have to say i'm dissapointed.

I surely hope tbat you are not saying that simply because you have not heard of something that it cannot exist?

Please do some research before tossing such an accusation at me.

I assure you it has and does exist.

I googled it Skirm and posted that it does exist.

[Back]

Im wrong. I’ve never even heard of one in any of the places I’ve lived. But if I did I’d be going out and joining the celebration. I thought Doyle made it up. My bad.

[Skirmisher]

Thanks Bratt I appreciate it.

And sorry Backlash, I thought you were addessing my post.

Should have checked with you first.

Mea culpa.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
I could have sworn that all the Europeans that settled here and built the country were white.

Nope.

[Back]

Slaves helped found this country too.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by Dave
Downers Grove South & north High schools DEV. They attempted to make it so that the school would not have any Christmas related items, decorations etc. No Christmas tree, no Santa and the like. There was a walkout by students in both schools against it, and shortly thereafter it we were allowed to have a "holiday tree" again.

I would have no problem with that. Learning about religions and religious world history is one thing, but promoting one religion over another isn't something I think should be done in school.
let me clarify, none were allowed including Jewish etc.

I kinda of assumed that and continue to be okay with that notion. It would be impossible to have equal representation for everyones desired relgious holidays or other days of importance..

IT does not bother me if they want to take it upon themselves to do decorations or whatever to celebrate their day. School money is not used for it so i dont see a issue.

[Tsa`ah]

Ish I should have read this from the beginning or not have read it at all.

First for the original topic.

Why can't you have a "straight white pride" parade? The answer is, well in the US, you can.

Why doesn't it happen? Social stigma.

I sort of laugh when a "rights" group goes after private clubs that only allow white men into their ranks, yet completely ignore the women only health clubs, or the black colleges.

It's an over exaggerated issue in my opinion.

Gays have pride parades to have fun in the face of intolerance. Some gays don't like the idea of it because the ignorant inbred sister fucker is likely to strengthen their stereotypical views of gays men as flamboyant, and lesbians as butch. Picking the most visible attendees as examples.

I'll tell you this much, if Jews could be fired because they were Jews, denied the right to marry other Jews, heckled constantly, the targets of assault ... so on and so forth. I'd start and attend Jew pride parades.

If you're so easily dissuaded from expressing your pride (the way you were born) simply because of how the general populace will look at you (or how you believe they will view you), then it's not that much of an issue to you as you would like to believe.

Per the topic(s) that have evolved from the original post ...

First the comments on education and ethnic status. Don't even attempt to claim or suggest an even playing field or the lack of motivation to attend school.

Urban school systems were pretty much the bottom of the barrel to begin with. Poor administration, poor funding, and many teachers who were just punching a time clock. Since the "no child left behind" bull shit that came to pass ... these schools are not only in danger of losing what funding they had to begin with, but they're also endangering what education these kids had to begin with.

In case you haven't heard ... private schools don't want poor people unless the student has something to offer. The offerings could be grades, exceptional test scores, or athletic/artistic ability. These are traits that have to be nurtured ... and very few children coming from impoverished urban school systems have had the experience of a nurturing environment; be it at home, in the community, or in the school system.

Black history in the US in a nutshell.

Forced from their homes onto ships where entire bloodlines died before the voyage ended. No living person today had any part of this on either end.

From the ships to the fields where still more died, had no rights, lived in squalor. Again, no living person today had any part of this on either end.

Finally freed ... legally, but not socially. Still, no living person took part in this.

Decades of repression, no rights, no protection, no equality. There are probably people alive today that remember this.

Civil rights movement finally rolls in. Years of struggle to get the same rights as white people ... yet social equality remains out of reach to this day.

When you have a more than 100 years of oppression, be it legal or social ... the cards are not in your favor no matter what.

Now this is not to say that I agree with State and Federal mandates. The attempt to "level" the playing field has the best intentions, just rotten implementation. If you want to level the playing field, you have to eliminate tensions; not culture them. You have to educate and you have to be willing to educate.

I'm not sure who posted about lending policies with financial institutions, but until recently lending institutions had ways of determining what race a person was even though it wasn't legal to require a statement of race on an application. It could have been a colored marking tab or the color of the ink and it was a very common practice.

Keller's point about race and success in the era of your grandparents Dave was that a black person couldn't find a lender, let alone equality in pay in order to sustain a family ... let alone a business. My ancestors came over on a boat as well. They were able to find work with less resistance than a black man of the time would have had. They were able to get into the bank and get a loan, while the black man wasn't even allowed to use the same bathroom as a white person, let alone given the opportunity to see a loan application.

Decades of inequality have bred a mountain of social reform that we have only begun to clumsily pick at.

The questions of race, gender, religion, or sexual preference should not even be allowed on applications of any type. In fact, I believe that the only questions that should be asked are those relevant to whatever is being applied for. Residence and length of time at the residence, work experience, education ... and so on. In an ideal setting the employer would only have an application with the pertinent information and an identification number, not even name.

There are many corporations that ask for previous addresses and want signed releases to obtain a credit report in order to "verify" education claims. This is nothing more than another way to verify race and economic status, much like questions about previous addresses.

To me it makes more sense to improve our educational institutions, make those playing fields level, than it does to demand changes that cause strife and unease in the general populous. I fear that in the end it will have been nothing but a distraction in the effort to institute the new legal discrimination ... net worth.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Dave
IT does not bother me if they want to take it upon themselves to do decorations or whatever to celebrate their day. School money is not used for it so i dont see a issue.

No but it is displayed on public owned property.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Dave
IT does not bother me if they want to take it upon themselves to do decorations or whatever to celebrate their day. School money is not used for it so i dont see a issue.

Yet it is the school property that displays the decoration. You had a problem with not being allowed to do it because it was something you wanted displayed. A portion of property owners and parents evidently hold more sway than students.

I've never had a real problem with holidays promoted by educational institutions, I did and do have a problem with the same educational institutions not promoting a spectrum that encompasses the entire scope of the student body and surrounding community.

In this case, that scope was too broad and the institution chose to do it's job and educate rather than spending one third of the school year celebrating the myriad of holidays.

It's bad enough that we, as a nation, have a second set of state and federal holidays that are nothing more that acknowledgement of a "Christianity only" club. To think we were doing so well up until the 40s and 50s.

[Sean]

I always found this amusing...

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Decades of repression, no rights, no protection, no equality. There are probably people alive today that remember this.

Most definitely.

Age 91 now, James Cameron is the only known living survivor of a lynching. A photo of it is out there in all its horrific detail.

Raven


[Edited on 6-25-2005 by Ravenstorm]

[Back]

The Civil Rights Act was only 45 years ago approximately. (I do not have real numbers.)

Just ask your grandpa or grandma about it. Yeesh.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by theotherjohn
why do you live in America?

Go live in Ireland or Germany

Because I was born here and all of my family and friends are here.

If they all decided to move to Ireland I'd go with them and be just as happy as I am now.

[longshot]

I feel bad for Stray.

At least in America, the right still has some balls.

In Europe? Ha!

Try, "Eurabia"...

You're being overrun by Turks and Paki's that would cut off your head for trying to practice your religious beliefs on their "home turf", yet by some horrid liberal Backlash-inspired shit, you are supposed to hug them, feed them, clothe them, and nuture them while they rape your country of pride, cohesiveness, and resources.

The only words that come to mind are "parasite" and "invasive species". They have used your own liberal institutions designed to foster equality amongst people with the SAME cultural identity and values against you. It's happening in the US as well, but at a slower pace.

You don't owe anyone anything. Whether it's a job, a timeslot, or business to meet some bullshit quota.

Meritocricy should rule, and fuck everyone that can't keep up.

The playing field will never be level. I'm not about to be kicked in the balls for it, I'll guaranfuckingtee that.

And Nein, go hug 50 Iranians. Maybe after they slit your throat for fun, you might start to wake up to the reality of your situation.

[DeV]

Originally posted by longshot
Meritocracy should rule, and fuck everyone that can't keep up.
Lol.. hell yeah, I can get down with that. Except for one thing, It just ain't happening, and the reasons are strikingly obvious.

Two of the biggest being income inequality and education inequality.

[Drew2]

Tsa`ah pwnd this thread so fucking hard.

I don't even have to say anything.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Tayre
Tsa`ah pwnd this thread so fucking hard.

I don't even have to say anything.

:yeahthat:

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Backlash
Im wrong. I’ve never even heard of one in any of the places I’ve lived. But if I did I’d be going out and joining the celebration. I thought Doyle made it up. My bad.

Uhhhh.....I wasn't even the one that brought it up. I just responded to it.

Can't you see I'm trying to relax here Karl?

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Tayre
Tsa`ah pwnd this thread so fucking hard.

I don't even have to say anything.

The only thing he forgot is that women's (and white women's) suffrage has only been around since 1920.

Women have been permitted to hold office since 1788, but it seems backwards logic to allow them to hold office before the right to appoint individuals to office, unless you were fairly confident that they would not be elected to those offices.

-Melissa

[fiendwish]

Originally posted by longshot
I feel bad for Stray.

At least in America, the right still has some balls.

In Europe? Ha!

Try, "Eurabia"...

You're being overrun by Turks and Paki's that would cut off your head for trying to practice your religious beliefs on their "home turf", yet by some horrid liberal Backlash-inspired shit, you are supposed to hug them, feed them, clothe them, and nuture them while they rape your country of pride, cohesiveness, and resources.

The only words that come to mind are "parasite" and "invasive species". They have used your own liberal institutions designed to foster equality amongst people with the SAME cultural identity and values against you. It's happening in the US as well, but at a slower pace.

You don't owe anyone anything. Whether it's a job, a timeslot, or business to meet some bullshit quota.

Meritocricy should rule, and fuck everyone that can't keep up.

The playing field will never be level. I'm not about to be kicked in the balls for it, I'll guaranfuckingtee that.

And Nein, go hug 50 Iranians. Maybe after they slit your throat for fun, you might start to wake up to the reality of your situation.

If only the notion of reaping what one sows were valid, we could count on the likes of you and Bush getting that kick in the balls. Only way I see you ever being remotely touched is when your well insulated glass houses no longer shield you from the excrement your smug selfishness produces. And you owe no one. Privileged dickwads inspire revolutions.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
The only thing he forgot is that women's (and white women's) suffrage has only been around since 1920.

Women have been permitted to hold office since 1788, but it seems backwards logic to allow them to hold office before the right to appoint individuals to office, unless you were fairly confident that they would not be elected to those offices.

-Melissa

I didn't forget it, I just don't think that slant is as steep. It's rather like the "straight" pass that bi-sexuals have ... white women don't have the same size hurdle to jump.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by fiendwish
If only the notion of reaping what one sows were valid, we could count on the likes of you and Bush getting that kick in the balls. Only way I see you ever being remotely touched is when your well insulated glass houses no longer shield you from the excrement your smug selfishness produces. And you owe no one. Privileged dickwads inspire revolutions.

Are you going to dispute what he said or just whine that he's calling it like it is?

[Ebondale]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by StrayRogue
It happens to anyone else and its a hate-crime etc. Eh, minorities are arrested for hate crimes as well.

I've never heard of it happening.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Ebondale

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by StrayRogue
It happens to anyone else and its a hate-crime etc. Eh, minorities are arrested for hate crimes as well.

I've never heard of it happening.

Read more NYC papers.

It really is not as rare as some people seem to think.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by longshot
[...]
And Nein, go hug 50 Iranians. Maybe after they slit your throat for fun, you might start to wake up to the reality of your situation.

Nice llittle right wing diatribe, Longshot.
What a load of shit.
We are about to judge a whole nation of people according to the actions of a mad extremist minority, now?

In which case...I have seen the Jerry Springer show, therefore the American people are a bunch of deviants. Oh yeah, dont forget the ones that bomb huge buildings...Americans are terrorists too...and Michael Jackson touches little boys willies...Americans are paedophiles too?

Of course not.
Which is the same for the Iranians.

I am awake to the situation, Longshot. It's about time you Stay and Dave stopped crying about how fucking hard done by you are and wiped the tears of self indulgence away so YOU can see the reality of the world around YOU.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Ebondale

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by StrayRogue
It happens to anyone else and its a hate-crime etc. Eh, minorities are arrested for hate crimes as well.

I've never heard of it happening.

Oh well that means it never does then :rolleyes:

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by longshot
[...]
And Nein, go hug 50 Iranians. Maybe after they slit your throat for fun, you might start to wake up to the reality of your situation.

Nice llittle right wing diatribe, Longshot.
What a load of shit.
We are about to judge a whole nation of people according to the actions of a mad extremist minority, now?

In which case...I have seen the Jerry Springer show, therefore the American people are a bunch of deviants. Oh yeah, dont forget the ones that bomb huge buildings...Americans are terrorists too...and Michael Jackson touches little boys willies...Americans are paedophiles too?

Of course not.
Which is the same for the Iranians.

I am awake to the situation, Longshot. It's about time you Stay and Dave stopped crying about how fucking hard done by you are and wiped the tears of self indulgence away so YOU can see the reality of the world around YOU.

Yeah, because you know all about my life, where I live and the people I interact with. Its ironic you're so quick to play the judgement card against someone else when you so easily do it yourself. As I said, you wouldn't understand, and the complete shite you have spewed proves that. While I may not agree with Longshots rather...narrow view on the world or other cultures YOU HAVE NO IDEA on the topic in discussion here.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Yeah, because you know all about my life, where I live and the people I interact with. Its ironic you're so quick to play the judgement card against someone else when you so easily do it yourself. As I said, you wouldn't understand, and the complete shite you have spewed proves that. While I may not agree with Longshots rather...narrow view on the world or other cultures YOU HAVE NO IDEA on the topic in discussion here.

No, how could anyone possibly know that white heterosexual men have an advantage in life in most things because of their genetics?

You win stay. You are all knowing. I bow down to your greatness and hope that you can one day get the liberation from the prison you live in.

[StrayRogue]

As I said, since when were you a straight white guy? Since when have you any fucking clue on the life we lead. Its got nothing to do with genetics. Its got nothing to do with me thinking anyone else has it worse or better or whatever fucking retarded point you're trying to make. It has to do with the fact as a straight white man I have 0, no, platform to use if and when I am discriminated against. As I said you're a woman. You can play the sexism card whenever the fuck you want.

[Warriorbird]

I'm sure the Japanese love you for staying in their country, longshot. I'm sure they judge you solely on your merits, too.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
As I said, since when were you a straight white guy? Since when have you any fucking clue on the life we lead. Its got nothing to do with genetics. Its got nothing to do with me thinking anyone else has it worse or better or whatever fucking retarded point you're trying to make. It has to do with the fact as a straight white man I have 0, no, platform to use if and when I am discriminated against. As I said you're a woman. You can play the sexism card whenever the fuck you want.

Yeah right.
Go look at how often sex discrim law suits work out. Not many.
Stay, I agree that there are some areas in which men and boys get a raw deal. Family and childcare are the main ones that spring to mind. Boys failing educationally is another concern. But to say that as a group, white men have anywhere near the level of discrimination that Black and minority ethnic groups have is laughable.

[StrayRogue]

Please quote where I've said that I or people of my culture have ever experienced such, as much or more discrimination like certain other cultures and I'll start to think your argument is worth a damn.

[Delirium]

What do ya all think would be at a straight white man pride day? Would it be like a parade(that dont sound that manly) or would it be like a carnival/fair type of thing. Obviously there would be alcohol. Like at gay pride parades there seems to be like a caricature thing goin on as the biggest stereotypes are over represented. What would be the straight white guys over pronounced stereotypes? I can imagine some guys in wife beaters and a huge beer gut and others in suits with a pocket protector. Maybe find some granola head hippie types to complete the fun.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Please quote where I've said that I or people of my culture have ever experienced such, as much or more discrimination like certain other cultures and I'll start to think your argument is worth a damn.

See I dont get what your argument is all about Stay.
You keep telling me I dont understand, but you dont do anything to enlighten me other than telling me I dont know anything. Sounds somewhat Taboresque to me.
So tell me...what are the areas that you feel you are disadvantaged in, such that you need a specific day to raise awareness of straight white man's plight?
I want to know...enlighten me?

[StrayRogue]

I've already pretty much stated what my argument is. If other people can agree or disagree or emphasize I'm sure that that is a sign that I've articulated it well enough for others to understand.

[Nieninque]

So your argument is "I want what they've got!"?

[StrayRogue]

Eh? Are you incapable of reading?

[longshot]

Tsa'ah, excellent post by the way.


Originally posted by Warriorbird
I'm sure the Japanese love you for staying in their country, longshot. I'm sure they judge you solely on your merits, too.

I don't know what bringing me living in Japan had to do with anything... if it was to make some kind of statement that I'm an asshole, then fuck you, because this is a good thread that doesn't need to be derailed.

But, it does bring up a very relevant example...

I lived in a small town that had a large influx of immigrant workers from Brazil, Peru, and Cambodia.

On several occassions, I had people trying to kick my ass and tell me to "go the fuck back to Brazil" because they were so fed-up with how bullshit immigration was destroying the fabric of their society.

They really didn't care that I was an American with a college education that was educating their children... they just knew something was really wrong, and after a few drinks, they let their colors show.

As horrible as it was that this happened to me, and as much as I wished that they would treat everyone as an indvidual, based on what I had seen done to their community, I understood how they felt.

I've written about this much more eloquenty in another thread about race awhile ago. I know it won't come out as well now, but the experience of living as an unwanted minority made me sensitive to both sides.

I would experience wild swings... one day going from the "uncle tom" that could not understand how these savages tried so hard to make asses of themselves and fail to integrate into the community... followed by a swing in the other direction that would leave me frustrated why the people in my town were such racist fuckers that weren't going to give anyone that couldn't trace their bloodline back before the Meiji era a fighting chance.

In the end, the one thing I did learn was that it takes far more energy to live as a minority than it takes for me to be a white kid in suburban Detroit. To constantly have to be aware of how others perceive you, act in an appropriate matter, and then not choke the shit out of some racist fucker that really deserves it leaves you tired long before you should be.

I admire foreign cultures, and I believe that all individuals should be judged as such.

Stray, I didn't mean to give a narrow view of world cultures. There are certain things that piss me off.

Why is it my obligation to accept others that don't except me in my own land, and would never reciprocate the freedoms I have to sacrifice for them to feel welcome here?

Self righteous people say we should embrace large groups of people as "safe", when nothing could be further from the truth. Just as it's wrong to treat an entire group or culture of people as dangerous, why do I have to blindly assume that they are all good people when I know they are not?

Seriously...

There is a religion that is popular amongst the poor, imprisoned people that have nothing to lose. It promotes institutions that are not compatible with democracy. It preaches intolorance, and millions of people are fed on the hatred of these others.

They were driven from Europe long ago... they will retake it without firing a shot.

Welcome to Eurabia.

Nein, I'm sure you will enjoy the gynecological exam at your wedding...

[Liberi Fatali]

Originally posted by Nieninque
See I dont get what your argument is all about Stay.
You keep telling me I dont understand, but you dont do anything to enlighten me other than telling me I dont know anything. Sounds somewhat Taboresque to me.

It's a proven statement that you know nothing, chickie. One can't argue with facts, I'm afraid.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. You followed an assholic post up with a more reasoned one, longshot. I can't say I agree, but at least it was halfway decent. And no, I'm not derailing anything.

For an alternate viewpoint: If a country is being "over-run" perhaps it has a weak culture.

[Edited on 6-25-2005 by Warriorbird]

Or perhaps it just has a flawed immigration system.

- Arkans

[Warriorbird]

For a stagnating country, the appeal of cheap labor is pretty high.

Witness how outsourced American industry has become.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Arkans
Or perhaps it just has a flawed immigration system.

- Arkans

Or perhaps people just see it as being overrun because that is what some politician tells them in order to get elected on some racist election campaign.

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Arkans
Or perhaps it just has a flawed immigration system.

- Arkans

Or perhaps people just see it as being overrun because that is what some politician tells them in order to get elected on some racist election campaign.
Or perhaps people who think like you fall into the trap of people who tell others that their competition is racist in an attempt to get elected.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave


Or perhaps people just see it as being overrun because that is what some politician tells them in order to get elected on some racist election campaign.
Or perhaps people who think like you fall into the trap of people who tell others that their competition is racist in an attempt to get elected. [/quote]

You havent a clue Dave.

Ethnic minorities in the UK have remained pretty stead at around 10% for fucking years. Because of the fact that we dont like anything other than whiteys living near us, Black and minority ethnic familes tend to become ghettoised and places like Bradford and other similar places in the midlands then become strongly populated by Black and minority ethnic groups.
That's when the likes of the BNP and the National Front and the Conservative Party jump on in with the immigration issue, as though that has anything to do with anything...stirring up racial hatred.

So, until you study immigration in the UK, go play somewhere else.

make sure you remember what you just said the next time you comment about anything to do with america ;)
you really should think about stuff before you post it.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
make sure you remember what you just said the next time you comment about anything to do with america ;)
you really should think about stuff before you post it.

Give examples?
I cant think of anything I have posted in this thread relating to America.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Tabor

Originally posted by Nieninque
See I dont get what your argument is all about Stay.
You keep telling me I dont understand, but you dont do anything to enlighten me other than telling me I dont know anything. Sounds somewhat Taboresque to me.

It's a proven statement that you know nothing, chickie. One can't argue with facts, I'm afraid.

WTF are you doing here?
Dont you know there are elections in Zimbabwe?

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Dave
make sure you remember what you just said the next time you comment about anything to do with america ;)
you really should think about stuff before you post it.

Give examples?
I cant think of anything I have posted in this thread relating to America.

I dont think I ever said anything about this thread. :)

[Back]

It does not surprise me that ethnic groups live close together. Its just a matter of familiarity. That areas ethnic groups live in don’t get the same kind of standards of services as other areas does not.

It could be argued that people who live in what are considered ghettos do because they don’t have the drive to get out. And certainly that may be the case, and the way I see it, from my perspective, it could be the exception.

I say this having been raised by a single mother. We never had much money until she remarried. We lived in large, diverse cities and she and my father taught me people are equal. My father being a white saxophone jazz musician, thats not surprising.

My efforts to rise have been genuine. I am talented. I recognize this and work even harder to reach the next bar. In all seriousness, from what I have seen throughout my life, if I were any other race I can say it may have been harder here in America.

Thomas Jefferson said all men are created equal. Even though he meant white men, not ethnic men or even white women, is moot now. I had a history teacher who expanded on that who said all men are created equal, but they do not have equal opportunity.

There are white ghettos in America. I know England has some too.

Right now I live in DC, and I know middle and upper class people, and you have never seen a wider mix of cultures, nationalities, interracial couples and their children in your life. Yet still, in this great melting pot of cosmopolitan diversity, there remain areas that are considered ghetto. Not only here in DC, but Baltimore is famous for the blocks. And trust me, Virginia has its share.

In reflection of all that, I’ll concede that this thread may not be stupid if you live in a white ghetto.

They are called trailer parks Backlash, and there are a lot of them... a whole lot.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Ebondale

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by StrayRogue
It happens to anyone else and its a hate-crime etc. Eh, minorities are arrested for hate crimes as well.

I've never heard of it happening. It happens, often.

All you have to do is a little research.

[Back]

Yeah, recently some black dude went on an killing spree around here shouting racial epitaphs.

That guy who shot up the Long Island train certainly went down on not only a hate crime, but manslaughter.

[Asha]

Got a 3 hour break, to rest my voice.
:)

This thread reminded me. At work about a month ago, a girl on the other side of my department said 'paki-shop' during a normal conversation with a friend.
Sadly a girl (white girl) sitting across from her was really upset by it, and complained to our team leader. It was crazy, it got so taken out of context that the girl who said it was forced into tears.
Anyhow, I remember when all the black artists went nuts becouse Live-8 didn't have any 100% black performers, lined up on the set list.
Oh, and the Music Of Black Origin awards.
That winds me up. Although I can't put my finger on why. :(
I think it's becouse Eminem isn't allowed in. Heh, explain that!
In the end it would be simply becouse his skin is the wrong colour.

That's the extent of my frustration though.
Clear those things up somehow and I'll stop feeling like everyday I have to apologise for being white.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Arkans
Or perhaps it just has a flawed immigration system.

- Arkans

Or perhaps people just see it as being overrun because that is what some politician tells them in order to get elected on some racist election campaign.

Or maybe because 120,000 people a year coming into this country, more than any other country in the EU, is a bit MUCH.

[Nieninque]

How many leave?

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave


I dont think I ever said anything about this thread. :)

I tend to stay out of threads about American Politics...mainly because I dont know enough about it to contribute.

[StrayRogue]

Immigration into Britain has double in the last decade. Not all are asylum seekers and indeed asylum applications are down by a massive amount. How many immigrants leave cannot be so easily charted because as soon as they become citizens, they are no longer counted as anything but a Briton. Conservative estimates of people coming in vs people going out would put the population rising via immigration by around 130k a year.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Nieninque
How many leave?

Only those who are (or want to be) movie/music stars.